Honestly, I just had a hard time watching him at the end of his career. It just looked painful to be shot lumbering up and down the NBA court at that age. Welcome to One Day University Talks with the world's most engaging and inspiring professors discussing their most popular courses. This podcast is your chance to discover some of our top rated lectures on your own schedule. I'm Steven Schragis. Spring is a great time for sports in America. The twenty twenty three Major League Baseball season has officially kicked off, the NBA and NHL playoffs are just around the corner, and the upcoming NFL Draft will give us a sneak peak of the league's next generation of superstars. But while new players are just joining the world of professional sports, others have stayed way past their prime. Why does so many athletes refuse to retire? Professor Matthew Andrews talked about this phenomenon in a lecture for One Day University. It's called one season too many superstar athletes who stayed too long. Matt teaches American history at the University of North Carolina. His courses dive into American sports and explore issues like race relations and the American identity. Matt knew I had one specific athlete in mind, by the way, when I asked him to come up with this list. So you asked me to give this lecture on athletes who stayed around one season too many, and Stephen, I instantly thought, Oh, this is because Tom Brady is suffering. Tom Brady is having a tough time. To be a New York Jets fan is to be a long suffering New York Jets fan and to lose at the hands of Brady over and over. So I immediately figured this was you with glee, rubbing your hands together and saying, I'm going to have Matt, you know, dance on the grave of Tom Brady metaphorically speaking. And now I'll give you a chance to to gloat and dance metaphorically on Tom Brady's grave if you'd like, because he did very poorly in the playoffs in his NFL career, so he says is over. I think I think it is over, and he ended by going down in flame. So I'm one happy Jets fan. So Matt, tell me what criteria did you use to go through the array of athletes and who you were going to focus on. Yeah, criteria, let's use that word loosely. This was bad science. It was the epitome of unscientificness. You know, there was no calculus. I yeah, there are number crunchers out there who will look at players and they can they can prove to us that these players stayed around one season too long because of how their performance waned on the field. I tried to think of athletes who suffered either a precipitous drop in quality of play. I try to think of athletes who I suppose we were kept around, or or who stayed around themselves because they brought name recognition to a team. They knew that fans would come and see them because of their name and click the turn styles. For me, the obvious answer was who are the athletes who damaged themselves? Who are the athletes who damaged their bodies by playing way after they should have? You know, is an athletes who tarnish their reputation? Who were the athletes who were our idols and we had to watch them struggle at the time. That's how I thought about this. We might as well start with what was at least once America's pastime and some names everyone's going to recognize. Tell us a little bit about how Babe Ruth and Willie Mays fit into this concept. When we think of Babe Ruth, when we think of Willie May's, you know, we don't think of Babe Ruth with the Boston Braves. We don't think of Willie Mays with the New York Mets, or at least I don't I think of him, you know, catching Vic Wortz's fly ball in the Polo Grounds in nineteen fifty four. But there are two examples of two all time American greats of certainly baseball greades arguably the two best players in the history of the game. Inarguably Babe Ruth is the greatest player in the history of the game. Maybe you could make a pretty strong argument for Willie May's being second. But you know, when you think about Babe Ruth, you think about the New York Yankees. The New York Yankees got a little bit tired, a little tired of Babe Ruth. He wanted to stick around to become a manager of the Yankees, and the Yankees ownership didn't want that to happen, so he went to the Boston Braves, and really he went to the Boston Braves less to be a player. He was hoping to one day become manager. And in his final season, the greatest baseball player of all time had a very meager one eighty one. He had that one final moment of glory in May of nineteen thirty five, he hit three home runs in one game, the first fair ball out of Forbes Field, or at least that's what they said. That gave him the number seven hundred and fourteen. But after that he was hitless for the rest of his career. So the Bambino, the Sultan of Swat, the Caliph of clout, you know, he went out with a whimper. And then Willie Mays. That was four years old when Willie Mays was playing baseball in nineteen seventy two, and then five in nineteen seventy three. Willie Mays is a Giant, right, He's a New York Giant. He's a San Francisco Giant, one of the best defensive and offensive players we've ever seen. And then the Giants got a little tired of him, but they wanted to give Willie one last to ross, so they sent him back to the met send him back to New York City where he had made a name for himself. Willie Mays was feted as a met There's this semi annoying habit of granting All Star berths to fading legends for sentiment's sake. It's a nice gesture, but totally unfair to more deserving players. And Willie Mays was a National League All Star in nineteen seventy three, but he hit two eleven And there's that famous image of him on his knees in the World Series, begging the umpire for a call, and he misinterpret that image usually, But I think they're both grey examples of supreme athletes who deteriorated rapidly at the end of their career. And I think it was hard for baseball fans to see that, let's do football because you also had two football names that some of the story is similar, some of it is different, Johnny Unitas and honestly, my personal favorite, Joe Namath. You know, there were a lot of football names that I could have picked, and in retrospect, I've been thinking about this. You know, for example, there's Mike Webster of the Pittsburgh Steelers, the great center who then ended his career on the Kansas City Chiefs and had so much in this now we're getting serious here, had so much head trauma from his years playing offensive line. He suffered deep depression. He was homeless at the end of his life. I mean, so, I certainly could have talked about him. When I was talking to friends about names of football players, A lot of them said, what about Jerry Rice, to which I said, you shut your mouth right now. Jerry Y is the greatest football player of all time and my personal idol as a forty nine Ers fan, So I don't even want to go there. Yeah, so I went with two guys. Johnny Unitis with his militaristic crew cut and black high top shoes. You know, he was the archetype of the modern NFL quarterback. And I grew up with San Francisco forty nine Ers fan idolizing Joe Montana, and Johnny Unitis was the guy they always mentioned whenever people talked about how great Montana was. Yes, but is he as good as Unitis? Unitis was tough. He started ninety two consecutive games at one point in his career, which is remarkable when you consider as opposed to Tom Brady, he were allowed to actually touch the quarterback back in the nineteen fifties, in the sixties, in the nineteen seventies, and then the Colts got tired of him, the Baltimore Colts tired of him, and then he was traded to the San Diego Chargers. And it wasn't just that he played poorly. He played very poorly. You know. In his first game on the Chargers, he threw for fifty five yards with three inner options. He was sacked eight times. You know, he clearly was a shell of himself. But there's something about seeing Johnny Unitis in that powder blue and yellow of the San Diego Chargers that just did not compute. I'm not sure there's a more glaringly incongruous vision in all of sports than Johnny Unitis in that Chargers uniform. I said, maybe Willie Mayson the Mets uniform, but at least I said New York in the front sometime. So Uniteds had nothing left in the tank. He was nearly immobile. He was benched in the fourth game of the season and that was that. So this legend just once again goes out with a whimper. Okay, Matt, can you tell us about Joe Namath, who really is my all time favorite athlete? Yeah, I want to have a conversation about Namoth. I think you can make the argument, Stephen, that his first season in the NFL was one season too many for Joe Namoth for the following fact his knees were shot. His knees were already severely damaged when he entered the NFL. You know, he tore his knees up at Alabama. Emma. There's a famous story that when he was introduced to the New York Press and the New York sports writer said, you know, you've got this huge contract and suppose you don't make it. And we got a sense of Broadway Joe right then when he just smiled and looked at the reporter and said, I'll make it. You know, Joe Namoth did not lack for self confidence. But on that day, the Jets team doctor took him into a bathroom stall and asked him to pull down his pants so he could look at his knees, and the doctor later said he was shocked. He said he had the knees of a seventy year old man. He had had so little cartilage in his knees that he predicted Joe Namoth was going to last two years. Two years tops. Of course, Joe Namoth lasted more than that. I think it's it's actually his ability to play through incredible pain. That's one of the things that endeared people to him. You know, people wanted to dislike him because of his long hair and his cocky attitude and his white cleats. You can say all those things about him, but that guy played through pain. Is that how you think of Joe Namath. Well, it's funny you're asking me, because this is the one area I can actually converse with you, at least close to your level, because he was my favorite player. And I've read plenty of books about Joe Namath and followed him. And here's my take on it. The too much might have been what happened after nineteen sixty nine, Joe Namath, as you know, won the Super Bowl. He had perhaps the greatest moment in NFL football, and pretty much everyone remembers it. It changed things every day for the rest of his life. All anyone wanted to talk about was that day, that game he reached the highest possible level and one Special Day, January twelfth, nineteen sixty nine. Joe nameeth Boy his last season, and as Yogi Berra said, you can look it up. I looked it up that nineteen seventy seven season was miserable on the Rams in his last game. I think it's absolutely fitting Broadway, Joe ended under the bright lights of Monday night football, lost to the Chicago Bears at Soldiers Field. Here are his stats. He was sixteen of forty two hundred and three yards, no touchdowns, four interceptions. That's Joe Namoth at the end of his career. Well, I gotta tell you, just the thought of Joe Namath on the Rams makes me want to move on to another sport. All right, let's do it basketball. You chose Shaquille O'Neill to talk about it, and you also pointed out his reason to continue playing maybe a little different. Why don't you tell us more about that, Matt Well, The choice of Shack was based on the comments that I received from people, most of them nice, but a few of them questioning my choices. And Shack is the one that a lot of people were upset with. The Thing with Shack is this, when you are that big, your growing deficiencies are that much more obvious. Look at photographs of Shiki. Look at photographs of any of us in our twenties and then later in our late late thirties or our forties, and there's a stark difference. But look at photographs of Shack when he came into the league compared to at the end of his career. I asked people mental trivia question, who did Shack end his career with? And there were so many teams. It turns out it was the Boston Celtics, And in that last year with the Celtics, he only played in thirty seven games. He didn't even average double digits. You know, a seven foot two, three hundred and thirty five player couldn't score ten points a game. At his peak, Shack may have been the most dominant physical force the game had ever seen. Will Chamberlain is the only other person we would put in that conversation, but Shack is in the conversation. I was speculating a little bit about why he stuck around. Shaquille O'Neill had spending habits that were as large as he was. He spent millions of dollars in a couple of days when he became a Los Angeles Laker, buying multiple rolls, Royce's buying houses. When I think of the great centers in basketball history, I think all of them kind of went out on top, pretty close to the peak of their powers. Bill Russell leading the Celtics to their eleventh title in thirteen years. Will Chamberlain, who effect went on to be an astounding beach volleyball player in retirement. Even Kareem's last year playing for the Lakers, when he was forty one, he was durable, he was dependable. That sky hook of his just seemed to be ageless. Shack just did not live up to those lofty examples. He was big and lumbering, and honestly, I just had a hard time watching him at the end of his career. It just looked painful to be shock lumbering up and down the NBA court at that age. After the break, Mac tells the story of two picers that hung in the ring for too long and how Serena Williams broke the mold with her retirement boxing two names, Joe Lewis and Muhammad Ali. Tell us a little about them. Okay, well, Steven, this is the one where like when I was saying with Mike Webster in football, I think it gets difficult, it gets uncomfortable. I'm still drawn to the sport like a moth to a flame. I am drawn to the sport of boxing, even though I shouldn't be. And when you stick around too long in boxing, as opposed to Willie May's and Babe Ruth, you get hurt, you get damaged. So it's just different in boxing. Joe Lewis one of the most beloved athletes in twentieth century American history, probably the most beloved athlete among Africa and Americans in the twentieth century, because of the way he very silently and powerfully did battle with the racist ideas that were out there. Joe Lewis stuck around way too long. One of the reasons that he did so is that some people, the people who have looked at this closely, say he was mistreated by the irs. He had raised money during the war effort, he had donated money during World War Two to the American government, but he was still taxed on a lot of this money. His white managers took money from him, and so Joe Lewis fought way longer than he ever should have you know. He became heavyweight champion of the world in nineteen thirty seven. He lost that title in nineteen fifty thirteen years later. He never should have been fighting. Then he lost the title to Zard Charles and then still in debt, Joe Lewis kept at it. In nineteen fifty one, when he was thirty seven years old, he was destroyed in the ring by the new champion, Rocky Marciano, and Marciano openly wept after the fight. Joe Lewis had been his idol, and then it just became so sad. At the end, he couldn't justify being in the boxing ring anymore, so he turned to the theatrical sport of professional wrestling, and he was flabby and he was out of shape, but he needed the money and he got hurt wrestling. In his final match in nineteen fifty six, someone jumped on him and broke three of Joe Lewis's ribs, gave him a cardiac contusion, making matters worse. The match was held in Florida in an arena that was totally segregated and did not allow black spectators, so it was a really a very very sad end for Joe Lewis, and then Ali fought way too long. Ali should have retired in nineteen seventy seven when he lost and then re won the heavyweight championship to Leon Spinks. One of the few Ali fights I remember was watching him against Larry Holmes and by the end of the bout, Muhammad aliud and lift his hands up above his waist. He was so tired in the end because well, because he needed the money, or is it because he just loved the limelight. Is it because he feel like he was owed the four years that he lost when his boxing title was stripped for refusing induction to the Armed Services in the mid nineteen sixties. I'm not really sure, but he fought sixty one times, He endured thousands of blows to the head at the end of his career, and then we saw how it ended. In nineteen eighty four, he was diagnosed with Parkinson's syndrome. The disease stripped Ally of his ability to speak and be heard. I'm not sure there's a sadder. Well, it was both kind of sad and uplifting when he lit that torch at the Summer Olympics in nineteen ninety six, but seeing the incredibly articulate athlete that he once was being more or less silenced at the end of his life from all of the damage he received in the ring. Those are the two that really stood out to me. Many say you are the foremost sports professor in the United States, So I'm going to make a guess. You know, there's another sport called hockey, So throw them a bone. Would you sure absolutely give us at least a minute on a hockey player? A few names come to mind. Eric Lindross stuck around too long because of all the damage he was doing to his head multiple concussions. For the once great Eric Lindross, market Ann Brodure. He's on the shortlist of greatest goal He's ever along with Patrick Waugh and Jacques plant Broder. He ended his beautiful career by appearing in just seven games for the Saint Louis Blues and he was terrible. He was awful, and he retired mid season. So just if he just could have ended as a New Jersey devil, I don't think he would be on this list. And then how about this guy Chris Chelios. Chris Chelios, who had a remarkable career, certainly with the Detroit Red Wings. Chris Chelios, who's obviously a sports junkie. You know, he tried to make the US bob sled team for the Winter Olympics one year. Chris Chelios was playing minor league hockey at one point in his late forties. He seems so addicted to the sport. But go google Chris Chelios Atlanta Thrashers. The image of Chelios in that Thrashers blue. He played seven games for them at age forty eight. Some people say it was a publicity stunt for the Thrashers, trying to bring people into the stance. If it was a publicity stunt, it was a bad one and it was a blight on an otherwise sterling career. I would argue, there we go, how about those names? That was pretty good. You do know about hockey, so I'm going to push you a little more. A few people asked about golf, but then it occurred to me, see what you think of this. Golf's a little different because players go to a certain age. Obvious, they lose some of their skills at that age, but then there's another league for them. They can keep playing against people their own age, not against twenty five year olds. That's a phenomenon doesn't exist in any other major sports, so it so to changes the equation of playing too long. On the other hand, there may be players who lost their skills regardless of age and shouldn't have kept teeing it up. Any thoughts on that, Well, my first thought is you're right. Golf is different. Golf is not boxing, that's for sure. So I actually don't have any problem with golfers sticking around as long as they can. I remember when Jack Nicholas won the Masters in nineteen eighty six, Steve and he was forty six years old, and it was just such a great moment, and they went bonkers for him at Augusta and forty six seems quite plausible now, but back then, in nineteen eighty six, that was shocking. There were people who were telling Jack Nicholas he was playing one season too many, that he was sticking around too long, and we would have been denied that amazing moment of him winning. People say Arnold Palmer stuck around too long, But boy, my grandparents, who were card caring members of Arnie's army, they didn't think he stuck around too long. They went down and watched him play at Pebble Beach every year. They wanted to see him keep on going, and of course Arnold Palmer was able to monetize that longevity. So yeah, I think golf is different. You don't get hurt playing golf, So I personally have a hard time thinking any of these guys stuck around too long. One more question, then we're going to close with a sport. I know you're interested in tennis. And Serena Williams her retirement very interesting situation. In your talk, you said she literally rewrote the retirement script, which is an interesting phrase. What did you mean by that? Well, as opposed to Johnny Unitis and Joe Namath and Willie May's and Babe Ruth, you know, athletes who weren't able to monetize themselves in the way that I think in our modern day we feel like they should have been able to. You know, Serena's different, So Babe Ruth and Willie May's they were all subject to the reserve rule and they could never become free agents and go on the open market athletes, even great ones like Unitis. And while Namith was starting to change the script and tap into this idea, that athletes could be corporate spokespeople, and certainly Babe Ruth did this too, but none of these people made hundreds of millions of dollars like Serena has. Serena has maximized her name, image and likeness as we as we call it now when we talk about about college athletes, and so she was able to walk away on her terms. You know, she made the announcement in a Vogue magazine cover story are complete with these super glamorous photos of her on the beach, some of them with her daughter, Olympia. I was disappointed when she retired. I wanted her to stick it out and get to Margaret Court's record. I think it's very possible she would have done that, but I guess she felt. Look, she is undeniably the greatest women's tennis player of all times. She's playing in a much different era than Margaret Court. Even though Margaret Court has one more Grand Slam title than Serena. Serena is the best women's tennis player certainly. But yeah, the word she used, Stephen was I'm evolving out of tennis. You know, she's got that brand. Serena is gonna be okay. Serena's going to be around. Serena is not going to fade away like Johnny. You did you know after his days with the San Diego Chargers. We're going to see a lot of Serena moving forward, a lot of Roger federerre moving forward. I hate to break it to you, Steven, We're gonna see a lot of Tom Brady moving forward. You're gonna have a hard time watching football without having Tom Brady telling you what's going on on the field. Although I just checked he's still retired. Matt, thank you so much for doing this. I love talking sports with you. Thanks again for doing this. Thank you, Stephen. Thanks for joining us here at One Day University. Sign up at our website one dayu dot com to become a member and access over seven hundred full length video lectures from the world's finest professors. You can also download our app. There you can learn more about today's episode and watch UNC professor Matt Andrews lecture on Athletes that Stayed two law, as well as his talks on the Olympics, the future of sports, and more. Join us next time when we talk about the unbreakable bond between humans and dogs, The one that surprises me is that ninety four percent of dog owners consider their dog apart of the family. I'm like, who are the six percent of people who do not consider their dog a part of their family. One Day University is a production of iHeart Podcasts and School of Humans. If you're enjoying the show, leave a review in your favorite podcast act. You can also check out other Curiosity podcasts to learn about history, pop culture, true crime, and more. School of Humans

Honestly, I just had a hard time watching him at the end of his career. It just looked painful to be shot lumbering up and down the NBA court at that age. Welcome to One Day University Talks with the world's most engaging and inspiring professors discussing their most popular courses. This podcast is your chance to discover some of our top rated lectures on your own schedule. I'm Steven Schragis. Spring is a great time for sports in America. The twenty twenty three Major League Baseball season has officially kicked off, the NBA and NHL playoffs are just around the corner, and the upcoming NFL Draft will give us a sneak peak of the league's next generation of superstars. But while new players are just joining the world of professional sports, others have stayed way past their prime. Why does so many athletes refuse to retire? Professor Matthew Andrews talked about this phenomenon in a lecture for One Day University. It's called one season too many superstar athletes who stayed too long. Matt teaches American history at the University of North Carolina. His courses dive into American sports and explore issues like race relations and the American identity. Matt knew I had one specific athlete in mind, by the way, when I asked him to come up with this list. So you asked me to give this lecture on athletes who stayed around one season too many, and Stephen, I instantly thought, Oh, this is because Tom Brady is suffering. Tom Brady is having a tough time. To be a New York Jets fan is to be a long suffering New York Jets fan and to lose at the hands of Brady over and over. So I immediately figured this was you with glee, rubbing your hands together and saying, I'm going to have Matt, you know, dance on the grave of Tom Brady metaphorically speaking. And now I'll give you a chance to to gloat and dance metaphorically on Tom Brady's grave if you'd like, because he did very poorly in the playoffs in his NFL career, so he says is over. I think I think it is over, and he ended by going down in flame. So I'm one happy Jets fan. So Matt, tell me what criteria did you use to go through the array of athletes and who you were going to focus on. Yeah, criteria, let's use that word loosely. This was bad science. It was the epitome of unscientificness. You know, there was no calculus. I yeah, there are number crunchers out there who will look at players and they can they can prove to us that these players stayed around one season too long because of how their performance waned on the field. I tried to think of athletes who suffered either a precipitous drop in quality of play. I try to think of athletes who I suppose we were kept around, or or who stayed around themselves because they brought name recognition to a team. They knew that fans would come and see them because of their name and click the turn styles. For me, the obvious answer was who are the athletes who damaged themselves? Who are the athletes who damaged their bodies by playing way after they should have? You know, is an athletes who tarnish their reputation? Who were the athletes who were our idols and we had to watch them struggle at the time. That's how I thought about this. We might as well start with what was at least once America's pastime and some names everyone's going to recognize. Tell us a little bit about how Babe Ruth and Willie Mays fit into this concept. When we think of Babe Ruth, when we think of Willie May's, you know, we don't think of Babe Ruth with the Boston Braves. We don't think of Willie Mays with the New York Mets, or at least I don't I think of him, you know, catching Vic Wortz's fly ball in the Polo Grounds in nineteen fifty four. But there are two examples of two all time American greats of certainly baseball greades arguably the two best players in the history of the game. Inarguably Babe Ruth is the greatest player in the history of the game. Maybe you could make a pretty strong argument for Willie May's being second. But you know, when you think about Babe Ruth, you think about the New York Yankees. The New York Yankees got a little bit tired, a little tired of Babe Ruth. He wanted to stick around to become a manager of the Yankees, and the Yankees ownership didn't want that to happen, so he went to the Boston Braves, and really he went to the Boston Braves less to be a player. He was hoping to one day become manager. And in his final season, the greatest baseball player of all time had a very meager one eighty one. He had that one final moment of glory in May of nineteen thirty five, he hit three home runs in one game, the first fair ball out of Forbes Field, or at least that's what they said. That gave him the number seven hundred and fourteen. But after that he was hitless for the rest of his career. So the Bambino, the Sultan of Swat, the Caliph of clout, you know, he went out with a whimper. And then Willie Mays. That was four years old when Willie Mays was playing baseball in nineteen seventy two, and then five in nineteen seventy three. Willie Mays is a Giant, right, He's a New York Giant. He's a San Francisco Giant, one of the best defensive and offensive players we've ever seen. And then the Giants got a little tired of him, but they wanted to give Willie one last to ross, so they sent him back to the met send him back to New York City where he had made a name for himself. Willie Mays was feted as a met There's this semi annoying habit of granting All Star berths to fading legends for sentiment's sake. It's a nice gesture, but totally unfair to more deserving players. And Willie Mays was a National League All Star in nineteen seventy three, but he hit two eleven And there's that famous image of him on his knees in the World Series, begging the umpire for a call, and he misinterpret that image usually, But I think they're both grey examples of supreme athletes who deteriorated rapidly at the end of their career. And I think it was hard for baseball fans to see that, let's do football because you also had two football names that some of the story is similar, some of it is different, Johnny Unitas and honestly, my personal favorite, Joe Namath. You know, there were a lot of football names that I could have picked, and in retrospect, I've been thinking about this. You know, for example, there's Mike Webster of the Pittsburgh Steelers, the great center who then ended his career on the Kansas City Chiefs and had so much in this now we're getting serious here, had so much head trauma from his years playing offensive line. He suffered deep depression. He was homeless at the end of his life. I mean, so, I certainly could have talked about him. When I was talking to friends about names of football players, A lot of them said, what about Jerry Rice, to which I said, you shut your mouth right now. Jerry Y is the greatest football player of all time and my personal idol as a forty nine Ers fan, So I don't even want to go there. Yeah, so I went with two guys. Johnny Unitis with his militaristic crew cut and black high top shoes. You know, he was the archetype of the modern NFL quarterback. And I grew up with San Francisco forty nine Ers fan idolizing Joe Montana, and Johnny Unitis was the guy they always mentioned whenever people talked about how great Montana was. Yes, but is he as good as Unitis? Unitis was tough. He started ninety two consecutive games at one point in his career, which is remarkable when you consider as opposed to Tom Brady, he were allowed to actually touch the quarterback back in the nineteen fifties, in the sixties, in the nineteen seventies, and then the Colts got tired of him, the Baltimore Colts tired of him, and then he was traded to the San Diego Chargers. And it wasn't just that he played poorly. He played very poorly. You know. In his first game on the Chargers, he threw for fifty five yards with three inner options. He was sacked eight times. You know, he clearly was a shell of himself. But there's something about seeing Johnny Unitis in that powder blue and yellow of the San Diego Chargers that just did not compute. I'm not sure there's a more glaringly incongruous vision in all of sports than Johnny Unitis in that Chargers uniform. I said, maybe Willie Mayson the Mets uniform, but at least I said New York in the front sometime. So Uniteds had nothing left in the tank. He was nearly immobile. He was benched in the fourth game of the season and that was that. So this legend just once again goes out with a whimper. Okay, Matt, can you tell us about Joe Namath, who really is my all time favorite athlete? Yeah, I want to have a conversation about Namoth. I think you can make the argument, Stephen, that his first season in the NFL was one season too many for Joe Namoth for the following fact his knees were shot. His knees were already severely damaged when he entered the NFL. You know, he tore his knees up at Alabama. Emma. There's a famous story that when he was introduced to the New York Press and the New York sports writer said, you know, you've got this huge contract and suppose you don't make it. And we got a sense of Broadway Joe right then when he just smiled and looked at the reporter and said, I'll make it. You know, Joe Namoth did not lack for self confidence. But on that day, the Jets team doctor took him into a bathroom stall and asked him to pull down his pants so he could look at his knees, and the doctor later said he was shocked. He said he had the knees of a seventy year old man. He had had so little cartilage in his knees that he predicted Joe Namoth was going to last two years. Two years tops. Of course, Joe Namoth lasted more than that. I think it's it's actually his ability to play through incredible pain. That's one of the things that endeared people to him. You know, people wanted to dislike him because of his long hair and his cocky attitude and his white cleats. You can say all those things about him, but that guy played through pain. Is that how you think of Joe Namath. Well, it's funny you're asking me, because this is the one area I can actually converse with you, at least close to your level, because he was my favorite player. And I've read plenty of books about Joe Namath and followed him. And here's my take on it. The too much might have been what happened after nineteen sixty nine, Joe Namath, as you know, won the Super Bowl. He had perhaps the greatest moment in NFL football, and pretty much everyone remembers it. It changed things every day for the rest of his life. All anyone wanted to talk about was that day, that game he reached the highest possible level and one Special Day, January twelfth, nineteen sixty nine. Joe nameeth Boy his last season, and as Yogi Berra said, you can look it up. I looked it up that nineteen seventy seven season was miserable on the Rams in his last game. I think it's absolutely fitting Broadway, Joe ended under the bright lights of Monday night football, lost to the Chicago Bears at Soldiers Field. Here are his stats. He was sixteen of forty two hundred and three yards, no touchdowns, four interceptions. That's Joe Namoth at the end of his career. Well, I gotta tell you, just the thought of Joe Namath on the Rams makes me want to move on to another sport. All right, let's do it basketball. You chose Shaquille O'Neill to talk about it, and you also pointed out his reason to continue playing maybe a little different. Why don't you tell us more about that, Matt Well, The choice of Shack was based on the comments that I received from people, most of them nice, but a few of them questioning my choices. And Shack is the one that a lot of people were upset with. The Thing with Shack is this, when you are that big, your growing deficiencies are that much more obvious. Look at photographs of Shiki. Look at photographs of any of us in our twenties and then later in our late late thirties or our forties, and there's a stark difference. But look at photographs of Shack when he came into the league compared to at the end of his career. I asked people mental trivia question, who did Shack end his career with? And there were so many teams. It turns out it was the Boston Celtics, And in that last year with the Celtics, he only played in thirty seven games. He didn't even average double digits. You know, a seven foot two, three hundred and thirty five player couldn't score ten points a game. At his peak, Shack may have been the most dominant physical force the game had ever seen. Will Chamberlain is the only other person we would put in that conversation, but Shack is in the conversation. I was speculating a little bit about why he stuck around. Shaquille O'Neill had spending habits that were as large as he was. He spent millions of dollars in a couple of days when he became a Los Angeles Laker, buying multiple rolls, Royce's buying houses. When I think of the great centers in basketball history, I think all of them kind of went out on top, pretty close to the peak of their powers. Bill Russell leading the Celtics to their eleventh title in thirteen years. Will Chamberlain, who effect went on to be an astounding beach volleyball player in retirement. Even Kareem's last year playing for the Lakers, when he was forty one, he was durable, he was dependable. That sky hook of his just seemed to be ageless. Shack just did not live up to those lofty examples. He was big and lumbering, and honestly, I just had a hard time watching him at the end of his career. It just looked painful to be shock lumbering up and down the NBA court at that age. After the break, Mac tells the story of two picers that hung in the ring for too long and how Serena Williams broke the mold with her retirement boxing two names, Joe Lewis and Muhammad Ali. Tell us a little about them. Okay, well, Steven, this is the one where like when I was saying with Mike Webster in football, I think it gets difficult, it gets uncomfortable. I'm still drawn to the sport like a moth to a flame. I am drawn to the sport of boxing, even though I shouldn't be. And when you stick around too long in boxing, as opposed to Willie May's and Babe Ruth, you get hurt, you get damaged. So it's just different in boxing. Joe Lewis one of the most beloved athletes in twentieth century American history, probably the most beloved athlete among Africa and Americans in the twentieth century, because of the way he very silently and powerfully did battle with the racist ideas that were out there. Joe Lewis stuck around way too long. One of the reasons that he did so is that some people, the people who have looked at this closely, say he was mistreated by the irs. He had raised money during the war effort, he had donated money during World War Two to the American government, but he was still taxed on a lot of this money. His white managers took money from him, and so Joe Lewis fought way longer than he ever should have you know. He became heavyweight champion of the world in nineteen thirty seven. He lost that title in nineteen fifty thirteen years later. He never should have been fighting. Then he lost the title to Zard Charles and then still in debt, Joe Lewis kept at it. In nineteen fifty one, when he was thirty seven years old, he was destroyed in the ring by the new champion, Rocky Marciano, and Marciano openly wept after the fight. Joe Lewis had been his idol, and then it just became so sad. At the end, he couldn't justify being in the boxing ring anymore, so he turned to the theatrical sport of professional wrestling, and he was flabby and he was out of shape, but he needed the money and he got hurt wrestling. In his final match in nineteen fifty six, someone jumped on him and broke three of Joe Lewis's ribs, gave him a cardiac contusion, making matters worse. The match was held in Florida in an arena that was totally segregated and did not allow black spectators, so it was a really a very very sad end for Joe Lewis, and then Ali fought way too long. Ali should have retired in nineteen seventy seven when he lost and then re won the heavyweight championship to Leon Spinks. One of the few Ali fights I remember was watching him against Larry Holmes and by the end of the bout, Muhammad aliud and lift his hands up above his waist. He was so tired in the end because well, because he needed the money, or is it because he just loved the limelight. Is it because he feel like he was owed the four years that he lost when his boxing title was stripped for refusing induction to the Armed Services in the mid nineteen sixties. I'm not really sure, but he fought sixty one times, He endured thousands of blows to the head at the end of his career, and then we saw how it ended. In nineteen eighty four, he was diagnosed with Parkinson's syndrome. The disease stripped Ally of his ability to speak and be heard. I'm not sure there's a sadder. Well, it was both kind of sad and uplifting when he lit that torch at the Summer Olympics in nineteen ninety six, but seeing the incredibly articulate athlete that he once was being more or less silenced at the end of his life from all of the damage he received in the ring. Those are the two that really stood out to me. Many say you are the foremost sports professor in the United States, So I'm going to make a guess. You know, there's another sport called hockey, So throw them a bone. Would you sure absolutely give us at least a minute on a hockey player? A few names come to mind. Eric Lindross stuck around too long because of all the damage he was doing to his head multiple concussions. For the once great Eric Lindross, market Ann Brodure. He's on the shortlist of greatest goal He's ever along with Patrick Waugh and Jacques plant Broder. He ended his beautiful career by appearing in just seven games for the Saint Louis Blues and he was terrible. He was awful, and he retired mid season. So just if he just could have ended as a New Jersey devil, I don't think he would be on this list. And then how about this guy Chris Chelios. Chris Chelios, who had a remarkable career, certainly with the Detroit Red Wings. Chris Chelios, who's obviously a sports junkie. You know, he tried to make the US bob sled team for the Winter Olympics one year. Chris Chelios was playing minor league hockey at one point in his late forties. He seems so addicted to the sport. But go google Chris Chelios Atlanta Thrashers. The image of Chelios in that Thrashers blue. He played seven games for them at age forty eight. Some people say it was a publicity stunt for the Thrashers, trying to bring people into the stance. If it was a publicity stunt, it was a bad one and it was a blight on an otherwise sterling career. I would argue, there we go, how about those names? That was pretty good. You do know about hockey, so I'm going to push you a little more. A few people asked about golf, but then it occurred to me, see what you think of this. Golf's a little different because players go to a certain age. Obvious, they lose some of their skills at that age, but then there's another league for them. They can keep playing against people their own age, not against twenty five year olds. That's a phenomenon doesn't exist in any other major sports, so it so to changes the equation of playing too long. On the other hand, there may be players who lost their skills regardless of age and shouldn't have kept teeing it up. Any thoughts on that, Well, my first thought is you're right. Golf is different. Golf is not boxing, that's for sure. So I actually don't have any problem with golfers sticking around as long as they can. I remember when Jack Nicholas won the Masters in nineteen eighty six, Steve and he was forty six years old, and it was just such a great moment, and they went bonkers for him at Augusta and forty six seems quite plausible now, but back then, in nineteen eighty six, that was shocking. There were people who were telling Jack Nicholas he was playing one season too many, that he was sticking around too long, and we would have been denied that amazing moment of him winning. People say Arnold Palmer stuck around too long, But boy, my grandparents, who were card caring members of Arnie's army, they didn't think he stuck around too long. They went down and watched him play at Pebble Beach every year. They wanted to see him keep on going, and of course Arnold Palmer was able to monetize that longevity. So yeah, I think golf is different. You don't get hurt playing golf, So I personally have a hard time thinking any of these guys stuck around too long. One more question, then we're going to close with a sport. I know you're interested in tennis. And Serena Williams her retirement very interesting situation. In your talk, you said she literally rewrote the retirement script, which is an interesting phrase. What did you mean by that? Well, as opposed to Johnny Unitis and Joe Namath and Willie May's and Babe Ruth, you know, athletes who weren't able to monetize themselves in the way that I think in our modern day we feel like they should have been able to. You know, Serena's different, So Babe Ruth and Willie May's they were all subject to the reserve rule and they could never become free agents and go on the open market athletes, even great ones like Unitis. And while Namith was starting to change the script and tap into this idea, that athletes could be corporate spokespeople, and certainly Babe Ruth did this too, but none of these people made hundreds of millions of dollars like Serena has. Serena has maximized her name, image and likeness as we as we call it now when we talk about about college athletes, and so she was able to walk away on her terms. You know, she made the announcement in a Vogue magazine cover story are complete with these super glamorous photos of her on the beach, some of them with her daughter, Olympia. I was disappointed when she retired. I wanted her to stick it out and get to Margaret Court's record. I think it's very possible she would have done that, but I guess she felt. Look, she is undeniably the greatest women's tennis player of all times. She's playing in a much different era than Margaret Court. Even though Margaret Court has one more Grand Slam title than Serena. Serena is the best women's tennis player certainly. But yeah, the word she used, Stephen was I'm evolving out of tennis. You know, she's got that brand. Serena is gonna be okay. Serena's going to be around. Serena is not going to fade away like Johnny. You did you know after his days with the San Diego Chargers. We're going to see a lot of Serena moving forward, a lot of Roger federerre moving forward. I hate to break it to you, Steven, We're gonna see a lot of Tom Brady moving forward. You're gonna have a hard time watching football without having Tom Brady telling you what's going on on the field. Although I just checked he's still retired. Matt, thank you so much for doing this. I love talking sports with you. Thanks again for doing this. Thank you, Stephen. Thanks for joining us here at One Day University. Sign up at our website one dayu dot com to become a member and access over seven hundred full length video lectures from the world's finest professors. You can also download our app. There you can learn more about today's episode and watch UNC professor Matt Andrews lecture on Athletes that Stayed two law, as well as his talks on the Olympics, the future of sports, and more. Join us next time when we talk about the unbreakable bond between humans and dogs, The one that surprises me is that ninety four percent of dog owners consider their dog apart of the family. I'm like, who are the six percent of people who do not consider their dog a part of their family. One Day University is a production of iHeart Podcasts and School of Humans. If you're enjoying the show, leave a review in your favorite podcast act. You can also check out other Curiosity podcasts to learn about history, pop culture, true crime, and more. School of Humans