When you give yourself permission to pursue your dreams. That is the moment that your life begins. It's when you stop being a spectator and you start being the man in the arena. Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now you know that I love to sit down with fascinating people with incredible stories, and especially people who share that through the written word. I'm a huge fan of books, you know. I'm always sharing my favorite books with you. And when I saw this book come out, i'd met this individual and the author probably a few months before the book was announced, and we connected at a really special roundtable, which we'll share in our interview, and I was really taken aback by his journey and as I research more about his story, I was blown away by the decisions he's made, the choices he's made. And I'm speaking about the one and only Seemu Leu who made history as the star of the first Asian fronted movie in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. And of course, if you haven't seen it, I highly highly recommend It, and which garnered him the People's Choice Award for Favorite Action Movie Star. Seemu also starred in the award winning CBC and Netflix comedy series Kim's Convenience, which won the Actra Awards for Outstanding Ensemble in twenty seventeen and Best Comedy Series at the twenty eighteen Canadian Screen Awards. It was the first Canadian television series with an all Asian lead cast. The series chronicles the day to day microdramas encountered by Korean immigrant family that runs a corner grocery store. Now seemu list of accolades now is unbelievable. Beyond all of this. He's a super cool guy, down to earth, a wonderful human being. And he does insane backflips. I've seen them in real life, not just in movies. Welcome to the show, Seema, lu Seema, thanks for being here. Man Jay, it's such a pleasure. Thank you, Thank you so much for having me. And for that pretty amazing introduction. Well, you had to live it. You had to live it. So I'm pretty sure you've lived an amazing life. If the introduction is like and that's the scratching the surface. But I really mean it. Man. When we met, we met, when Hussan put together Hussan's been on the show too. Hussan Minhaj put together a YouTube round table. I believe it was to talk about the AAPI community. We had this amazing dinner together. That was the first time we'd met. You did a backflip for us in the waiting area out to us. I wanted to say that I really enjoyed connecting with you. And then, like you were saying, we were just together a week ago after the oscars. Tell me about why that roundtable was important to you at the time. I'm just intrigued, Like, because obviously there was there was such a diverse group of us. Do you remember what it was for you that that really inspired you to be there? I mean, yeah, the the context of that round table and what was going on at the time, and by the way, still continues to happen to this day. Is um is just this this rise in in anti Asian anti api UM sentiment and hate that's been going around I want to say America, but it's really kind of just pervasive. It's it's been kind of everywhere in the Western world UM and over the last couple of years, you know, in the wake of COVID, there's just this there's been the sense that, you know, we are being blamed for something that is that that we have absolutely no part in, and it's partially because of you know, the color of our skin and just just who we are, and there are there are deeply rooted um you know, aspects that that I made sure I wanted to attack in that round table. You know, this idea of a model minority myth, this idea of a perpetual foreigner that you know, no matter how many generations a family could have immigrated from a country, that just because we have this face, there's a perception that we're always outsiders. And so you know, that's when when people ask me where you from, know where you're really from, and a lot of Asian Americans will know or will have been asked that question, and it's like, no, I grew up I grew up here. You know, what are you talking about. I'm I'm a Canadian citizen or an American citizen. I pay American taxes and I deserve to be treated as a citizen of the country, not scapegoaded as an other, you know, And so I think that was the spirit of of you know what we were talking about, and you know again, yeah, I was such an incredible pleasure talking to you Jam and that backflip. I have to say, I it's just for anybody who's wondering, like, why the f does this guy just go and do backflips? It was because Caitlin O'Hashi was one of the people on our round table, and so I was talking to her. I was like, oh, you know I dabbled and tumbling back in the day, and she was like, oh yeah. I was like, yeah, I could, I could do a backflip, and she was like, okay, show, yeah, I want to. I want to support you there, Seemo and say, Seema just doesn't just go around doing backflips. It was a very specific situation. But I was more impressed because you were doing it in like dress pants and like dress shoes. It was not like you weren't like ready for it. It's not like you were prepared for it. So that's a risky maneuver. Looking back, I must have I had a lot of faith in the in the stretchiness of you did you did, and it was before the event. But Seema, today we're talking about your book We Were Dreamers, which is beautiful title, an immigrant superhero origin story, and I just want to say to everyone who's listening or watching right now, I highly recommend that you go and grab a copy of this book. When this episode is out, the book will be available, so I highly recommend you get Amazon, Bonds and Noble wherever it is there it is. Seemo has one of the early copies. I have the PDF on my phone digital, my digital version that I had for preparing for this interview. I was very lucky to have an early PDF copy, but highly recommend it We Were Dreamers that I highly recommend you go and get seem I want to start talking to you about. You know, my wife and I saw Shang Chi with a mutual friend of ours Dorothy, who I believe you know as well, and so yes, so we three went to see the movie together. We loved it, you know, huge fans of the movie. It was. It was phenomenal. But what I know is that you sent a tweet years ago, right back in twenty eighteen, where you kind of said that you wanted to play the role. Now you've talked about the tweet before. I guess what I'm fascinated about more is how did you have the confidence back in twenty eighteen or the lack of fear to put yourself out there when that's a really vulnerable space to be. Like I think today, when I'm thinking about the people that listen to us, they'd be thinking, Oh, I'd never send that out because what if I didn't get it? Or i would never go to that audition because I'm too scared, or I'm feeling a lot of anxiety around starting my own business because I'm struggling with this, this and this. So we as a society struggled to put ourselves out there. What gave you the confidence back then or the lack of confidence, whatever, What was going through your head when you send a tweet like that? The delusion? No, No, that's an incredible question, Jay. It where I was mentally in twenty eighteen, and just in general in my life, just being an actor in the industry that was working. That was the culmination of a lot of years of work on myself personally. And you know, if you've read the book, you'll know I had You know, I spent a lot of my life that being that guy that was petrified of judgment and of the opinions of others and of putting his true self out there. And where that got me was in a you know, I was I was working as an accountant, hated my job, and then you know, eventually found myself unemployed because I was I was laid off. And the moment that I started to give myself permission and of course the catalyst. I hope that the catalyst for everyone is not this rock bottom moment where you lose your job, but um, for me, that's what it was. It was this idea of like, I have nothing else to lose, so I might as well do something that makes me happy. And what you know what, incidentally that ended up being was logging on a chryslist and um, you know, searching for acting jobs, even even though I had no idea how the industry worked, I didn't know anybody. But you know, I remember that feeling of being on set for the first time as a movie extra and being so enamored and blown away by the energy by the people, and just wanting to do anything that I could to get back right. And you know, in the years that i'm since I made that decision, I just feel like, you know, that lesson has been has been learned in spades of this idea of like it all starts with permission. And I remember I said this when I was on stage accepting my People's Choice award. Is that when you give yourself permission to pursue your dreams, that is the moment that you can actually that your life begins. Right. It's it's when you stop being a spectator and you start being the man in the arena, you know. And for me, you know that this tweets and Jay, by the way, this tweet is only one of the many things that I did over the course of my career manifesting this kind of superhero role for myself. I wanted to play a superhero ever since since day one, you know. And I had like written short films for myself where I played a superhero. I you know, tweeted Marvel back in twenty fourteen, Hey Marvel, how about an Asian superhero? And then yeah, in twenty eighteen when they announced the movie, I thought, well why not? You know what's the worst. The worst thing that can happen is that they cast someone else. But no one's you know, no one, no one, no one's gonna be talking about me anyway, and so kind of tongue in cheek. I made that tweet. I was like, Hey, Marvel, we're gonna talk or what. And of course then I suspected this and I had it verified multiple times. Kevin Figy never read the tweet. Anyone, nobody at Marvel or anybody along the decision making process ever read the tweet. But I kind of love that, right, because the manifestation is not for anybody but yourself. It's for you to set a sight in the horizon, be it wherever. You know, You pick a direction and you say, I don't know if I'm ever going to get there, but that's the direction I'm headed, and I'm just gonna I'm just gonna go. And and that's that was the mentality that I had been living with, you know, ever since I made the decision to pursue active that I love. I love that point you just made. I think that is such a brilliant distinction between how we envision how manifesting works and how it actually works. Like that distinction that Seema just said, the idea that the tweet was for him to believe it, to put it out there, to feel it, to become really confident that that's what I want to do. That was for him and no one saw it. And I love that no one saw it too, Like, I'm totally with you. I think that's that's incredible. So I want to go back a bit into the book where you talk about your childhood. And I love hearing about people's childhood because I think we underestimate how much our childhood impacts how we grow up. Like I always say to people that their their adult pursuits are based on the inner child's needs. Most people's adult pursuits are based on what they didn't have as a child. Now, can you share with us the relationship you had with your parents growing up, because you grew up with your grandparents, right, So can you walk us through that scenario? Absolutely? Yeah. So I was born in a city in northeastern China called Harbin or Harbin, and shortly after I was born, my parents actually immigrated to Canada. They were pursuing, you know, their higher education. So my father was studying his PhD. And then he was able to bring my mother over and they actually ended up studying at the same university, Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario. Shout out to queens and and you know it was it was not feasible at the time for them to bring you know, a newborn baby with them. They would have had to basically I would have been a full time job in and of myself. But then they also had to maintain a full course load, they had to do research. You know. Um, it just didn't make sense. And of course there was not enough money. We were so poor, like they didn't have any money to pay for childcare at all. So, um, it really made sense to leave me in the in the care of my grandparents, so really like they were the ones who raised me. And for about four and a half years, I lived what I believed to be a pretty idyllic life in China. I know, I knew that I had parents, kind of conceptually that my grandparents were not my parents, but I also didn't really care. I had I had people who loved me, I had a tribe, I had a family, and you know, we slept in the same bed every single night, and I just I went to sleep feeling like my heart was full and that I was loved and that was really you know, at the end of the day, you don't really need anything more than that. That being said, one day when I'm about four and a half, stranger shows up at the door and he says, I'm your dad. I'm your dad, and I'm here to take you to this new life in Canada where everything is better. You know. Um, you know, we have so many more opportunities in Canada, and your mother and I are working on building a life in Canada. You're going to come with us and be in our family and and I was like, okay, but can I bring my grandparents? You know that, like the fundamental you think about a child and what's going on in his mind. He's like, but but I don't want to say good. I don't want to leave my grandparents. They're my family. But you know that that was, you know, the whole family was kind together on this kind of messaging, and I was eventually convinced or careerced to to leave the country and to go with my dad to Canada. And um, you know, effectively, if you really think about it, jay I was I was adopted by my own biological parents at age five, and you know, whereas for my parents, I think it must have felt like this happy ending because after so many years apart, the families finally together, you know, we could finally live our happily happily ever moment in this new country. What it ended up being was a lot more complicated than that in truth, in reality, because you know, first and foremost, my parents didn't know who I was. They had no idea the person that I had grown to become. You know, a lot of things set by the time you're you know, at the age of four and a half five developmentally, you know, a lot of things about your personality solidify, and I think they were surprised by the child that they eventually got, you know. And you know, the other thing too, is that they had no learning curve in parenting. It's just one day they were all of a sudden responsible for this child. And you know, whereas if you had given birth and you had stayed by your baby day after day, you would have at least kind of like had the ability to learn as things were going. But then there was this whole gap in time where they just you know, they didn't know. And and so what ensued in the in the next like I want to say, like one or one and a half decades, was you know, a lot of intergenerational conflict and budding of heads and just like you know, parents and myself. I didn't have any siblings, but just me and my parents just having different expectations of each other, you know, fundamentally misunderstanding each other and oftentimes getting into big blowout arguments sometimes you know, with violence, and and you know, not not great, not great times altogether. But evidently you know the book, you know, having been out and handing come full circle so many years later, you know, I'm my parents are my best friends today and it's the recognition of that journey that we went on together that really catalyzed the creation of this book. So I'm really really excited to talk about it for people to read it. Thank you for sharing that with us, because I think you know, today everyone sees you as the superhero, and they see you as obviously you're just crushing it right now, and you don't realize that there's a real person behind all of this, and there's a real journey and a real story, and there's a real real life is the right word. I think we disconnect superheroes, and that's why origin stories have always been so fascinating as kids of like, well, how did this person get there. And I love that you called this your origin story because it does feel very grounded. There's this line in the book that I've that really resonated with me, and I think it's even more fascinating against the backdrop of what you just said. And you said that my parents, like many in their generation, were willing to sacrifice greatly so they could provide financial stability for their children. And the reason why that resonated with me is I think a lot of people can connect with that. When I hear that, it sounds like you reconcile their shortcomings with what they were able, what they were trying to do, at least from an intention point of view. What do you think you what do you think you learned during that time? Not now, I love hearing that you're best friends now and you've really connected, But what do you think you took away during that time when it wasn't great and it was painful? Were you what were you learning? What were you developing at that time? I mean I think I was. I think I was developing an internalized sense of hatred for my own identity. I could every day at home this constant battle of culture and values and you know language, because you know, we were speaking in different languages to each other, how could we possibly fully understand where each you know, the other came from. So I, you know, I grew up under the assumption of, like, I've got the worst parents in the world. They're embarrassing to be around, they're embarrassing to take in public, and they don't understand, you know, whereas you know, all of my friends and my peers they have parents who understand. Our children like to go out, our children like to go to parties, you know. For for me and my parents, you know, they were so fixated on this idea of academic success being the only way out, or being the only way to maintain the level of stability and to keep a roof over our heads that they were just like, you shouldn't be doing this, you need to be studying. You know. That was the messaging that was constantly being repeated time and time again. And you know, without kind of hitting too hard, this idea of a tiger parent that I hate that narrative. You know, it really just comes from you know, my parents coming to and I'm starting to I'm starting to look back now, so you stop me. Whenever it's starting to get no love. No, I love it, and you're self aware. But but you know, my parents came here with nothing, and so the anxiety of that an immigrant feels, I think is something that you know, even I never understood because I was sheltered from it, right, like of course, but but looking back and like, of course, my parents were obsessed with the idea of having a stable career, and of course they they didn't pause to think about what they were passionate about doing. They just wanted to. They knew they were electrical engineers, so they were like, this is my trade, this is my craft. I can get work like this and I can build a future for my family. And if I teach my son to do the same, he will be able to do the same thing for his family. And when you look at it that way, you're like, of course they acted that way, but but yeah, at the time, it really made me resent them, and it made me resent their their value in their culture, which incidentally is my culture, you know, Yeah, and I regret that very typically. No, I love how real this is because I can relate to that as a South Asian growing up in London. It was the same thing my mom moved to London when she was sixteen. She had to like find a job, economic stability, like you know, they didn't. They didn't have wealth and family or anything in England. And then you know, it's like I grew up with the same messaging and it was for the same reasons. But I think it's so important that that time doesn't turn into bitterness for us or that feeling of resentment towards our parents long term, because when we do try and understand what you're sharing with us, you're like, Oh, it's not that you it's it's not that it's okay that they didn't think about these things. It's that you understand why they didn't have the time, right, it's like reconciling. So you tell a story in the book when your mother, I believe, locked you outside of the whole way. Uh, do you mind sharing boughts of that story with us about how different you think parenting was in your home compared to others, because I think that really highlighted that difference you spoke about. Yeah, and I mean I mean the way that my parents treated me. It was also also, by the way, very different than the way that my grandparents, you know, ever interacted with me. And I truly believe, like you know, with my idea, yeah and my nine nine like we we they were. They were perfect and every every possible sense of the word. You know, they were affectionate, They you know, we were reasonable that it wasn't like they spoiled me to become this like total entitled brat. Um. You know, they were reasonable, They taught lessons, they were patient, and and with my parents, I feel like, you know, that patience just wasn't there. And of course they were you know, a lot younger. They had you know, had to take class, they were busy, they were anxious about other things. But um, this I'll never forget. The first time that I was really punished was was when I you know, I wrote in the book and I had you know, I think my dad had just picked me up from school and he was, you know, kind of like, well, what did you do at school today? And it was just this really innocent lie. But we had gone swimming, so I said, oh, we were we were swimming, and and my dad was like, well, are you know, are are you fast? Are you who's the fastest kid in the class? And because I just wanted to impress my parents. I was like I am, and he was like are you sure? And and then I don't know how this. I mean, it sounds ridiculous to say now, but I was like, you know, after a while, I was like, no, I'm not sure. I was lying. And I mean, like, how like it's not like we all hopped in a pool and the and the and the instructor was like, all right, everybody, we're gonna grade this, being like everyone was just having fun. But of course I just, you know, I just really wanted I just really wanted to impress them, and uh and and so I was like, yeah, it wasn't It was I was lying. And my dad was like, Okay, you did the right thing. You told the truth. And I was like, yeah, you know, please don't tell mom, because because my mother is as you know, as tough as my dad is, my mom was like the real um enforcer of the family, like very vicious and specific with her words, like just the words that cut you all. You have this one parent that sometimes, you know whose words just cut a little bit deeper. That was my mom. And so I was like, can you please not tell don't tell Mama? Like please, um? And he was like, okay, okay, I won't. And later on that night at dinner, you know, we're together and my mom was like, so, how is school, um, and I was like, oh, it's fine. We went swimming and I my dad. I remember this so vividly, and it's so funny because when I tell him, he doesn't but I'm like, no, this happens. My dad sold me out. So he promised me that he wasn't going to tell my mom, and then he was like, SIMU told a lie today, And basically, like literally the moment that he finished saying it, my mom was out of her chair, you know, and grabbed my hand, led me out of the door, you know, shut it in my face and it locked it, and I was I was out. I mean for a for a five year old, you know, for a six year old, it's probably like fifteen minutes. For me, it felt like forever. And I was struggling with so many things, you know, like, you know, first of all, I was I was being disciplined in a way that I had never been before. My dad had like betrayed my trust. So it was really it was a really um pivotal moment in my time in Canada because I really felt quite alone. You know, I missed my grandparents. I wanted to be home. I was promised, I was sold on this utopic life in this new country when it really all I wanted was to go back, you know. Um so so yeah. That I mean that that kind of was the was the catalyzing moment for everything that that came after A really foreshadowed all of the conflicts that we would that we would have issues about trust, you know, the physical, physical discipline, and just remember feeling so alone out in that hallway. What I've find so great about this book and why I want everyone to read it as as fans of yours, as people who are struggling with their own identity in their own journey. Maybe there's people who've listening and watching who've moved city, moved country. Maybe you've actually gone through an adoption process, maybe you've moved with your family. Like the reason why it's so powerful is your memory is really vivid. Like it's it's amazing how strong these moments are. And that's why I wanted you to share that story, because it's like a lot of people I speak to don't really have strong memories of five six years old, Like a lot of people's memories don't start till a lot later, memories that they can really hold on to. And so one of the things I do, I think you do so beautifully as a writer in this book, is that we really go back with you, like we're really there in that environment. Like it almost feels like I'm watching the movie, right. So I just want to congratulate you from from a writing point of view that it's it's so strong that I really feel like I'm there, And that's why the books a power full bit case. You know who hates that, by the way, is my parents. When they read they're like, like, we've had so many conversations, and you know, they've been so wonderfully supportive about the book, and I definitely couldn't have written it without them, you know, without the cooperation and the hours and hours of sitting together going beat by beat. You know, um, you know that the story starts in their infancy and their formative years in China in the sixties and seventies. You know, I really wanted readers to have that perspective as well. But it's really funny. They're like they just they read those parts and they're like the world is going to hate us. Yeah, why would you air out all of our dirty all of the worst things that we've ever done. And you know, you know, I've been very I've tried to be very diplomatic with them throughout the whole process. I'm like, with the most amount of love ever, I'm like, yeah, but you did those things. And you know, when you're when you're young too, you're so impressionable. It's like you remember those cuts, those you know, and every child has them. They're those moments where you know, if if a parent not being there when they wanted them to be, and and you know, of course no parent is perfect, and you're always going to have those moments as a child, but they exist. And I feel like my goal is to, you know, in telling the story is not some sort of retribution for the way that they treated me or spoke to me, but it's that you know, comes from this idea or responding to this idea that so many immigrant families will will internalize what goes on and it's not you know, it's not common practice for us to share in these in these moments, share these memories and these stories, and what it can create is this really isolating environment for the children and you know, and oftentimes to the parents as well. You know it when when you come to a new country with no support system, it can it already feels so isolating. And so what I wanted to do with with the book and with the story was to show immigrant children everywhere that they're not alone and that you know, it's okay to be vulnerable, it's okay to share. And you know, there are millions and millions more stories just like this, and the way out, you know, the way to, you know, not necessarily the solution to all things, but certainly, you know, a step in coping is in sharing and in you know, finding community and a sense of you know, of identity and commonality. Yeah. Well, I think when you're sharing your private experiences publicly, that's going to help people intern with their private lives, right, Like, that's what's happening here. It's like people being able to see like, yeah, that's exactly what I had at home, or that was similar. What I'm really interested by seeing is like, actually, the fact that you just said that your parents were a part of the process, and of course you talk about them in the book and tell their journey to me. Actually, that's a beautiful healing story in and of itself that here you are airing out, as you said, dirty laundry, but actually the people all involved, our friends and a family, tell us about what was some of the steps to repairing and amending that connection as you grew and matured, because I think that's what most of us need help with with our parents is we may even understand what they did and why they did it, but to really have a positive relationship with them as we get older. That's an amazing story in and of itself. What was some of those early steps that you took to reflect, repair and amend I would say the first steps toward well, first of all, to paint the picture of what things were like the first couple of years when I decided to throw away my entire education and pursue a career in the arts. You can imagine, you know, my parents were not pleased and there was a there was almost like two years where we rarely spoke to each other. It was it was just very you know, things were very tense. And then I booked a show called Blood and Water is my very first you know, series regular role. I was in the main cast, and the reason I booked this role, um, you know, apart from giving a not bad audition, was was I was one of the only actors in the country who could speak Mandarin fluently, and so I had a bilingual character. I was in a hotel room in Vancouver, I had monologues and monologues in Chinese and I couldn't read. I was I'm not literate in Chinese, right, So it's a very difficult language. It's I think easy to be able to speak, it relatively impossible to learn the work because there's no alphabet system. It's just really you either know the word or you don't. And I needed help. So I rang my parents up and I was like, you need to you need to help me with this, and they very begrudgingly, we're you know, got on the phone with me, and I feel like in the process of that connection, you know, the process of that of that um you know, learning, there was a connection that was formed, and my parents came to understand just how hard I was willing to to work, you know, because I think up until that point their mentality was of sim Simu doesn't have the toughness, you know, he couldn't. He wasn't tough enough to maintain a job at you know, Deloitte, with the accounting firm that I worked at. Um you know, Seema just lacks mental fortitude. And I think that was the first time that they had their belief system challenged that they were like, oh, Seemu's very mentally resilient and he is willing to work hard. It's just that he it's you know, it's just different passions. It was something else that was calling him. And from that point on, I think they started to really buy into my career and they started to share in the wins and the losses, because before then they didn't really care. You know, I'd say hey, they'd be like, what's new. I'd be like, hey, I booked. I booked a commercial for this restaurant. You know, it's going all across Canada and they'd be like, great, so we so you threw away in education in private school and four years of university to make commercials for people to watch. Congratulations, Like, they were pretty savage about it. So this was the first time that they started to really like, you know, maybe respect my decision and what I was doing. And you know, shortly after that, I thankfully booked a show called Kim's Convenience, which ended up being this you know, big hit, I mean countries all around the world, and you know, catapulted me out of this like destitute state of like credit card debt artistry to you know, being kind of somewhat middle class and and you know, just not worried about where my next job was going to come from. UM, and from there, you know, from then on, I think they really started to be to be cheerleaders. But of course, you know, that doesn't mean, you know, just because there was an external success in our in our lives, it doesn't necessarily mean that the relationship is all in good. You know, I was still very aware that I had trauma and resentment inside me, and so in UM, somewhere around that time, I'm not gonna say when, because my mother's going to murder me. But my mother turned sixty and it's so sensitive about it. Oh my god, she's gonna kill me. And for her sixtieth birthday, I was writing her this card that was that was very kind of just generic by all means, you know, happy birthday. I love you. That's sort of actually not I love you, just kind of happy birthday at all that sort of stuff. And then I kind of stopped myself and I was like, there are so many things that I want to say to this woman, you know, and I just I can't keep going pretending like things are fine. I felt like that we were all just kind of in this playing out this this act. We were all acting this scenario where there was just no trauma and everything was all good and sunshine, and I was like, I need to I need to get some of these thoughts down. So instead of this card, I actually wrote her like an eight page letter, you know, talking about my feelings as a child, talking about how I always felt inadequate, and how I was constantly chasing their expectations of me and feeling like I was coming up short, and how ultimately through it all, you know now I understood, you know that that where they where they came from, wasn't wasn't this place of malice or evil or anything like that, but just of of intense anxiety and wanting the very best for their next generation and having sacrificed so much to be able to provide that opportunity. Right. So I've ended the letter with you know, I'm so extremely grateful for everything that you've done. I love you. We don't say that to each other enough. I hope, you know, this will change the course of our relationship. But even if it doesn't, I feel like these are the words that I need to say to you right now. And you know, it's very, very nervous, but I put it in the envelope by you know, I handed it to her and she read it later that night, and you know, I knew that one of two things could have happened. Right. Everything could have stayed the same. It could have been the status quo my mother could not have you know, reacted to, you know, positively, or she could really take the letter, really understand and absorb its intention and then you know, join me in charting out a new path. Because one of the other things that I said was, it may seem like we've spent so many years at each other's throats, but we still have so much time. You know, if we if we started today, we still have so much time. And and my mother wrote me back and she said, I've been I've been crying. I've been you know, sitting with this letter, and I'm ready to join you. And that really was the moment that our relationship stopped being you know, surface level and started to get so much deeper. And the more that we you know, the more time we spent together, the more we realized just how much we've enjoyed each other's company. I took my mother out on a Mother's Day date for the very first time that year, and it was like the two of us just sitting across from each other. It's just the most beautiful momentum that, you know. I just I'm so incredibly grateful for yeah, and everything that's happened since the success, the fame and the accoho. I mean, that's allowed me to really fully bring them along for the ride and to let them in, you know, Whereas I feel like if we didn't have those conversations, there would always be a part of me that suspected that, you know, hey, what what would our relationship be like if that success didn't come, if I didn't book this role. But I feel like, you know, because we did the work before, um, you know, I that there's not even a single part of me that feels that feels that way, you know, And instead I'm just focused on being able to give my parents the best possible life in their third act, you know, in being able to for for immigrant parents who were so who literally like when we went to McDonald's, would would would try to convince their son that they weren't hungry, you know, but but would get their son the happy meal, you know, and would watch him eat. Like my parents never wanted anything, you know, like for themselves. And it's just an incredible feeling to be able to give back to them, you know, and to and to show them the things that they deserve to have. It's it's really wonderful, see me. That's I'm so you went into that with us, man. That is just so wonderful. They hear about the real work. And I love that you drew that important connection that you didn't assume that the external success was solving the internal problem and that the internal needed its own work. And I think that that requires so much maturity because for most people they go, well, once I get this, that solves everything, because now everyone's going to be happy. And I think that that's a very undeveloped viewpoint because they're completely they're two completely different things. And actually I want to point out a few other things to people who are listening the connection you made with your parents around learning Chinese and them seeing how hard you had to work. I think that that's genius as a lesson for all of us, that if your parents or your friends or your family members don't believe in you, they're not coming on the journey with you. Let them come on the journey that they can understand. Right. If your parents are accountants, bring them in and have them be involved in seeing how you're managing your finances. If you're someone who's trying to do something artistic, your parents may not understand the art, but they may understand the engineering aspect. Like I think that is such a refreshing way to think about it, because we want to be recognized by our parents for the art, but that's not what they understand and appreciate. And so there's such a brilliant lesson there for all of us and how we connect. And then another oh sorry, go and see sorry go ahead, Oh no, no, no, I was just gonna I was just gonna echo echo the importance of that and to say yes, like, you know, you know, parents are like we are all capable of evolving, but only at a certain speed. Yeah, and so for you know, for many parents, I would say, not just mine. If you're just to show up one day and say I'm gonna be an actor, I'm gonna be a provisional beast, you know, basketball, Like that's a bit of a mental leap, and so you do, like, you know, maybe start to take them on that journey or and maybe understand that it's not going to happen overnight. You know, Yes, our value systems are just so different anyway, Yeah, please go on, No, No, I love hearing this from you. I think the mistake we make is that when we share our passion with our parents or our family, we've already been thinking about it for three years and we just told them in three minutes. So now we're expecting them in three minutes to catch up with our three years of thinking. And that just doesn't correlate. That doesn't correspond. And I love, I really really appreciate how you've thought about this and how you've made those choices. The funny thing is, I don't know if you know this. I spent three years working at Accentia, so before I did. Yeah, So when you said Deloitte, I was like, I know exactly what that looks like. I was a consultant at Accentia. So when you said Deloitte, I was like, I know exactly what the world looks like when you told your friends or your colleagues at Deloitte that you were going to make a career switch. What was their reaction then? And are you in touch with any of them now? And and tell us about that journey from a friend's point of view, you know, you know, it's really funny. I don't. I don't keep in touch with like a single person, almost a single person from that entire kind of business school era of my life right, which was like the you know, the latter half of college as we were kicking off recruiting, and you know, it's like, so, so you know Jay having worked at Accenture, which by the way, is a very prestigious consulting firm for anybody who who doesn't know, Um, you know, there's a bit of a hierarchy at business school, and it's like, you know, you all get together, you talk, you know, you learn, you talk about you do cases. I'm sure you did case studies and all that. And then you know, after when when it starts getting to time to recruit for summer internships and full time jobs. It's like investment bankers, management consultants, everything else, and then you know, um accountants at the at the bottom. So I was already like my Mark, because we're not good in business class. I was not the guy that read the Wall Street Journal every day, um, you know, just like woke up every day passionate about capital markets or about you know, a corporate strategy. Um. I was the guy that went home and played video games with his roommate because I just like wasn't engaged. And so yeah, I just felt like I was constantly a fish out of water for that entire period of my life. And the day I got laid off at Deloitte, you know, I remember very vividly. Again, Um, we all remember our traumas. And I remember going into my managing partner's office and remember the woman from HR that that was like standing next to him, and then the moment where he was like, we're going to terminate. We're here to terminate your employment. And then the HR lady stepping in and saying you we're going to give you ten minutes to collect your things and we're going to escort you back into the into the you know, the office and and of course it's an open concept office, so everybody can see. But we're going to scort you there so you can, you know, pack up your final thing. And I remember, you know, walking back out onto the floor, and not a single person made eye contact with me, spoke with me, you know, people that I thought were my friends. And I don't necessarily put that blame on them. I mean, obviously there is just a really awkward moment and they probably were just like, oh, what's happening? But that was it. That was my goodbye to a lot of those people. Was like I looked around, nobody said anything. Everyone's heads were down. They just like wanted to pretend like it wasn't happening. And so in complete and utter silence, I packed up my things and then and then I left, and it was almost like that there was such a such a clean break. I did run into somebody I used to work with a few months later, or I would say maybe like a year later, when I was you know, just starting out as an actor and of course auditioning more than I was working, getting rejected more than I was getting hired, and as one of my other jobs to kind of you know, pay the bills. I was handing out dog food as samples on the on the on this side of the street. And that job took me into the financial district near where I used to work. And this fellow was on his lunch break and ran into and kind of tapped me on the shoulder and was like SIMU, and you know, he had been like promoted. I could tell by his suit that he was like, you know, he's at least a manager, and I was. I was handing out dog food and that was there's a really hard moment for me. I had to come home and like you know, it was like a re reevaluate all your life choices moment. But thankfully, you know, I think I had become so happy with the person that even if I wasn't getting the work necessarily, I was so happy with the person that I became right out of the shell of somebody who just didn't care about anything, couldn't seem to find any sort of motivation in life. Came this person who was just like hungry every single day, ready to attack the day, and was even willing to, uh, you know, hand food examples. Yeah, to be able to support that dream. That's what I'm hearing when I'm speaking to you about this today, and of course when I was reading the book and when we've had interactions before. What's really clear for me today is even though in the book you will talk about how you wanted to always find approval and validation from your parents and other people, what I'm actually feeling when I'm hearing you today is that you've kind of had to do that for yourself the whole time because there hasn't always been that external validation. So at least from our conversation today, what I'm garnering is that at every step you've validated yourself because no one was there to validate you. Would you say that's true? Would you say that that was part of building that confidence in who you were, no matter the external position of your journey. I mean, yeah, absolutely, you know I wasn't you know. And I don't necessarily think I'm the most confident person in the world. I think I struggle, especially like you want to know what impostors, since it feels like trying me me at the oscars for the first time. That is a crazy environment to be in, and all of a sudden you're looking at everyone around and you're like, oh my god, what am I doing here? But you know, I would say this, I spent so much of my life trying to live up to somebody else's definition of success, what, you know, trying to be somebody else's definition of successful, whether it was my parents, whether you know, in some cases, even my friends. You know, I have a lot of friends who went into law and medicine and management consulting, and and you know, I really it wasn't until I had that rock bottom moment that I said, you know that none of that is working. I can't live for someone else. As much as I can be grateful for what my parents have done for me, I cannot surrender then surrender my own life in service of what they did. You know, I have to live for myself. And once I made that decision and I focus, and I became more I mean honestly became more self centered, became more selfish. You know, I felt like a new life started to kind of come out of me. And it is to this day the best thing that's that's ever happened. What are some of your daily, weekly, monthly, yearly habits or practices that you've done to kind of build that resilience and mindset, because I feel like, you know, it's you've you've made that decision, and then, like you said, you have to build around that decision. It's not just oh yeah, I'm gonna become a movie start, you know, it's it's not as basic as that, and it isn't how you talk about it either. Talk to us about some of those habits practices you spoke about manifestation earlier, Like, tell us about some of those concrete examples of things that you've done that you think have been really integral to getting to where you are today, which I believe is truly just the beginning of a whole other journey. But you know, you've you've been on this massive journey to get here, and I still feel like, you know, there's just so much more for you to uncover. I'm sure you feel that way, and that's what I fell from the book too, Like, but tell us about some of the ones that have worked so far. It is so important in my line of work specifically, but in all lines of work really to identify what is in your control and what is not, and if you're going to base your success on factors that are outside of your control. Then I believe that you are setting yourself up for failure, and not the good kind of failure, not the kind of failure that you learn from and you evolve from and you think critically about, but failure like you know, you're gonna just wonder where the time went, and you're gonna wonder why you never got your opportunity right. And so I know, having an internal locus of control and being hyper focused on the things that are within your grasp it has been the critical, critical factor of success over when I look at the last ten years of my life and as an actor, this is so hard because so much of you know, career progression for a lot of us, on the surface looks like, Okay, we go in an acting class, we you know, work on our craft, and then we get an agent. And if you get an agent, there's this expectation that an agent is going to do a lot of the legwork for you, is going to set up an audition, it's going to help you book a job. And so I feel like it's a very dangerous place to be in when you start to place when you start to offload that responsibility to an agent, to a third party who maybe doesn't have your best interest in mind. I mean, that's the way it's supposed to work. But an agent is worried about so many other things. They might be focused on a client that is earning more than you. They might just be focused on protecting their own relationships because you know what, Actors come and go in the industry. But an agent, you know, has relationships with casting directors and with studios, and that becomes the more important thing. Those are the people that you know, at the end of the day, pay them, in my opinion at least, And so the idea of for me, of waiting for the phone to ring, um for my agent to give me my next opportunity, felt like death. And so for me, you know, from day one, I had it in my mind that I was going to create. I was going to be a creator, you know, I was going to be m somebody who wasn't just like acting in front of a screen. So screenwriting was something that I tried to develop in myself very early on. You know, I couldn't take a lot of you know, usable skills, I couldn't salvage a lot of usable skills from business school. But I feel like my writing was maybe one of them, and so M you know, I just I just wrote. I wrote and wrote and wrote, and I wrote some of the worst scripts you'll ever read. But I constantly put myself in situations where I could be a more self sufficient artist rather than somebody who is dependent. And that led me to apply for production you know, conservatories and intensives. You know, one of my one of my most fulfilling experiences was um with this company called the Real Asian International Film Festival in Toronto. And what the film festival did every year was they had a filmmaking collective. So they accepted, you know, people under twenty five years of age, and they basically ran them through um. You know what it what it meant to write a script, what it meant to crew, you know, to crew a production, to find a DP, to you know, take a film project from pre production through to principal photography, through a post production, how to do basic editing and mix sound and from there, I, you know, I really came out of it feeling like, Okay, I hold the keys to my destiny. Of course, the way that things played out, I had a few lucky breaks along the way. There is no getting to this level without you know, a pretty significant amount of luck. But that being said, you know, I have always believed that luck is, you know, where where a preparation meets opportunity. I wanted to be as prepared as I possibly could be, and so for me, that meant, Yeah, that meant doing the things around being an actor, you know, whether that was production, whether that was screenwriting, or you know, even honestly even doing stunts. At one point, I was like a substitute stuntman. I wasn't incredible at it, but you know, I was just trying to find different ways to diversify my revenue stream and to find just paying me to do something in the industry, I'll do it. And I feel like, you know, people would ask me all the time, but what if you don't make it? And my answer I was always like, don't you see, I'm making it. I'm making it right now. Look at all the stuff that I'm doing. There's you know, I don't know whether I'm going to make it as an actor or as a as a shooter, or as a you know, as a production guy, or even as a stuntman. But I've got all these things going for me. You know, I'm and I feel like I'm filling up my days with meaningful work rather than just waiting and waiting for something that I have no control. I love hearing that. I'm so glad that you you brought that up, because I think so often we get so fixated on we get so fixated on I want to do this or I want to be this, and if it's not that, I don't want to do anything, and that mindset pushes that dream away, like you get further and further and further away. Because actually, if you're in and around the circles of that journey, you get closer and closer and closer and closer. And I think that that that switch you just made and you've talked about, and to hear that you had to do that, I genuinely love hearing that, because whenever I'm speaking to someone too, I'll say the same thing to them, is like, be around the industry. Be in the industry somehow, be in those spaces and those rooms, because then it's more then you're closer to where you want to be, rather than you're saying, well, I only want to be a movie director, but I'm not ready to direct an ad or a commercial and it's like that doesn't that doesn't work like that, So you know, I think that's a huge, huge lesson, amazing advice. U Sema, you've been so generous with your time. You've been h you've been so kind. I know it's late in London. I want everyone to know. Right now, it's like seven pm in London, eight hours ahead where Simo is right now. So he's been doing this at the end of his day, after a busy day, so that we can make this happen. I'm in La so our gap pleasure even no, no, I want to I just want to acknowledge and recognize you man, like I I understand how how busy you're working out there. You're not you're not there on vacation. And so we end every on purpose interview with the final five. And these have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum, so you can do one word to one sentence, so seem these are your final five. The first question is what is the best advice you've ever received or heard? Good things come to those who do. Ah, I like that nice, We've never had that. It's a great one. Okay. Second questions, what is the worst advice you've ever received or heard good things come to those who wait. Nice answer, all right. Question number three, what's the how would you define your current purpose in life? You want to answer that a one word or one sentence. Um, yeah, yeah, you get you can play with it, you can be yeah, you can be vigo data. You've been good so far, You've been like you've been killing these two questions already got harder. Um yeah. My current purpose, UM, it's too. It's to amplify uh voices of color. It's to champion projects. Um, you know, featuring myself or otherwise that I believe, UM speak too similar to my book, Um, you know, the stories of immigrants, the stories of people who have been traditionally underrepresented, who have traditionally not being given a voice, and to and to be a living example of you know, of of the importance of diversity and the importance of inclusion, and not just as an actor, but you know, as we've talked about being a multi disciplinary and being a producer, you know, and being being somebody who who can really affect the way the decisions are made in Hollywood. I love that man. All right. Question number four, what's the first thing you do in the morning and the last thing you do every night. I am so bad with mornings. I don't the good morning person. So probably the first thing I do in the morning is wish I could go back to sleep. Yeah, yeah, that's bad. Um um. The last thing I do every night what I I brush? I brush my teeth. That's late. Yeah, that's cool. That's that's good. Brush brush my teeth. Good. I think about I think, I think about my lessons of the day. If I have what what what? What did this day teach me? Yeah, that's a great one. We never had that too. I love that. Uh. Fifth and final question, I'll put you out your misery. Fifth and final question. If you could create one law or one habit that everyone in the world had to follow every day, what would it be? Write down the five people that you most want to speak to to pick their brain and message all five of them. I love that. That's a that's a great tip. I never had that before. I love that. There there is you know, the one. You know, it's like the other part of like the b self, you know, be self sufficient, be a creator. Is also this recognition that you actually can't do it yourself. Yes, and in order for you to be, you know, a creative and you have to find the people around you, and you have to steal ideas from people that you admire, and you have to look at other, you know, ways in which people have found success and cross reference against at that is so critically important. I feel like for sometimes there's a sense, you know, to put for us. We maybe romanticize putting blinders on and just saying I'm working on mic grind. I don't need anybody else. It's just gonna be me. That's never gonna happen. Especially the arts, you need to constantly be talking to people that you admire, perspectives that you want to hear. You know, that's the only way that you learn and that you evolve. This has been way longer than one sense. It's a good answer, though, it's a good answer. No, it's a good answer, seem The book is out. It's called We Were Dreamers, We Would Dreamers is the name of the book. Highly recommend you go and grab a copy. We will put the link in the caption the bio everywhere an immigrant superhero origin story. Simulio, it's been so fun talking to you, man. I am so grateful that I actually got to do this with you because the opportunity to sit down and and peruce through your book, the opportunity to sit down have this conversation with you. I already respected you so much from our meetings and conversations and when we bump into each other things. But I genuinely am so happy that I've got to learn about your story. I can't wait for everyone we just shared, like the tip of the iceberg of the stories. Please go grab the book. Any final words, any lost messages, anything that's on your mind or heart. I'll say this. I'll say this, Um, regardless of where your parents came from, what their story is, UM, you know you belong, You belong, you belong, and you deserve to be to feel proud of where you came from, and you deserve to take up space and to be unapologetic about it. And you know, for for me, that was along. It took a long way for me to get there. But UM, you know, if I could, if I could leave you with one parting thought, it's it's just just feel feel proud, feel proud, and feel like you don't don't feel like you have to apologize for the color of your skin, language to speak anything. I love that. That is a great message to end on. Seema, thank you so much. Make sure when you're listening and watching everyone make sure you tag us both on Instagram, on Twitter, on any social media platform you're using, because I love to see what resonates with you, what connects with you, and please go show that on purpose love to see Moon. Make sure he feels the positive energy from all of our listeners. Seema, you've been incredible. I hope you have an amazing rest of your visit to London, my hometown, and I can't wait to hang out with you when you're back in La Man. But thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Thank you, thank you. I'm still waiting on your list of restaurant recos. Oh yeah, okay, okay, I'll send them over right now, all right, Thank you so much,