What are the things that light you up?

What are the things that light you up?

Success should facilitate you being able to do as much of those things as you want to do. If you don't have time to do the thing only you can do.

Success should facilitate you being able to do as much of those things as you want to do. If you don't have time to do the thing only you can do.

What kind of life is that? He's the host of the Daily.

What kind of life is that? He's the host of the Daily.

Stow of It. His books have sold more than ten million copies, and holiday ladies and gentlemen, we're.

Stow of It. His books have sold more than ten million copies, and holiday ladies and gentlemen, we're.

Just piling accomplishments on top of accomplishments. As not the way one finds meaning in their life or their existence. There has to be some point where you go. This stops with me.

Just piling accomplishments on top of accomplishments. As not the way one finds meaning in their life or their existence. There has to be some point where you go. This stops with me.

Weird Throw to announce that we've reached three million subscribers. We're incredibly grateful for each and every one of you. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss out on any of our new releases. We're dedicated to bringing you the content you love. Our team carefully analyzes what resonates most with you to bring on board the best experts and storytellers to help you improve your life. Some of your favorite topics are sleep, science, weight loss, physical fitness, navigating breakups, habit building, and understanding toxic relationships. Upcoming episodes include one of the biggest names in health and science world, renowned relationship therapist, and your favorite manifestation expert, is back to drop new findings. Hit subscribe to not miss any of these episodes. If you think of someone who would love this episode, send it to them to make their day.

Weird Throw to announce that we've reached three million subscribers. We're incredibly grateful for each and every one of you. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss out on any of our new releases. We're dedicated to bringing you the content you love. Our team carefully analyzes what resonates most with you to bring on board the best experts and storytellers to help you improve your life. Some of your favorite topics are sleep, science, weight loss, physical fitness, navigating breakups, habit building, and understanding toxic relationships. Upcoming episodes include one of the biggest names in health and science world, renowned relationship therapist, and your favorite manifestation expert, is back to drop new findings. Hit subscribe to not miss any of these episodes. If you think of someone who would love this episode, send it to them to make their day.

The number one health and wellness podcast Jay Sheety jay sheety ly.

The number one health and wellness podcast Jay Sheety jay sheety ly.

Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is probably our record holder of most times on the podcast, which makes me very happy. I was just saying to him offline that the doors of On Purpose will always be open to him, because when I first kicked off my interviewer journey, I had a show at HuffPost called Followed Reader. It was on huff Post Live. I would be on Facebook Live every single day interviewing authors. I was just starting out, probably add like I don't know, like one hundred thousand people who are connected to my work, and he would always come on, and I think I interviewed him twice there and then interviewed him at Nasdak when I had a Nasdak Reads show. Then he came on my podcast when I kicked off. I'm talking about the one and only Ryan Holiday, one of the world's best selling living philosophers. Ryan's books include The Obstacle Is The Way, Ego Is the Enemy, The Daily Stoic Discipline, His Destiny, and the number one New York Times best seller, Stillness Is the Key, and appear in more than forty languages and sold more than six million copies. Ryan's bookstore, The Painted Porch, which I've not been able to visit yet, but I really want to. It is one of the most incredible products he's working on. And his new book is The Daily Dad, three hundred and sixty five meditations on parenting, love, and raising great kids. I even match my T shirt, that's how much I love this book. Go and grab a copy. You love Ryan's work, You're gonna love this book. And there's someone who is preparing and thinking about being a dad at some point in his life. I'm really excited for this conversation. Welcome back to On Purpose, Ryan Holiday. Ryan, thanks for being here. Man.

Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is probably our record holder of most times on the podcast, which makes me very happy. I was just saying to him offline that the doors of On Purpose will always be open to him, because when I first kicked off my interviewer journey, I had a show at HuffPost called Followed Reader. It was on huff Post Live. I would be on Facebook Live every single day interviewing authors. I was just starting out, probably add like I don't know, like one hundred thousand people who are connected to my work, and he would always come on, and I think I interviewed him twice there and then interviewed him at Nasdak when I had a Nasdak Reads show. Then he came on my podcast when I kicked off. I'm talking about the one and only Ryan Holiday, one of the world's best selling living philosophers. Ryan's books include The Obstacle Is The Way, Ego Is the Enemy, The Daily Stoic Discipline, His Destiny, and the number one New York Times best seller, Stillness Is the Key, and appear in more than forty languages and sold more than six million copies. Ryan's bookstore, The Painted Porch, which I've not been able to visit yet, but I really want to. It is one of the most incredible products he's working on. And his new book is The Daily Dad, three hundred and sixty five meditations on parenting, love, and raising great kids. I even match my T shirt, that's how much I love this book. Go and grab a copy. You love Ryan's work, You're gonna love this book. And there's someone who is preparing and thinking about being a dad at some point in his life. I'm really excited for this conversation. Welcome back to On Purpose, Ryan Holiday. Ryan, thanks for being here. Man.

Yeah, I think about that first interview all the time because I think my voice failed. If I'm remembering correctly, I've been doing interviews for like days and days, and then my voice just stopped and there was some sneaze. Someone was like crawling on the floor, give me water or whatever. But now every time I'm like, I hope that doesn't happen again.

Yeah, I think about that first interview all the time because I think my voice failed. If I'm remembering correctly, I've been doing interviews for like days and days, and then my voice just stopped and there was some sneaze. Someone was like crawling on the floor, give me water or whatever. But now every time I'm like, I hope that doesn't happen again.

You got a good mate. That's exactly what happened. So we're in this smaller room. Yeah, we weren't in the studio that day for some reason, so we booked this separate room in the office. And yes, your throat felling, you were coughing, and you feel comfortable. And I'm looking at the producer going game. Some wames work because there wasn't water for some reason. Here we have plenty of water. Today, you have your he brought his own everyone.

You got a good mate. That's exactly what happened. So we're in this smaller room. Yeah, we weren't in the studio that day for some reason, so we booked this separate room in the office. And yes, your throat felling, you were coughing, and you feel comfortable. And I'm looking at the producer going game. Some wames work because there wasn't water for some reason. Here we have plenty of water. Today, you have your he brought his own everyone.

That's how much I think about it all the time.

That's how much I think about it all the time.

And you're spot on. The producer literally crawled to avoid being in the shot.

And you're spot on. The producer literally crawled to avoid being in the shot.

Yeah, and people don't I mean, obviously producers are sort of an unsung role, but you don't understand all the things that are going on behind the scenes that make it not terrible. And yeah, I think she like crawled under the floor and sneakly handed me the water.

Yeah, and people don't I mean, obviously producers are sort of an unsung role, but you don't understand all the things that are going on behind the scenes that make it not terrible. And yeah, I think she like crawled under the floor and sneakly handed me the water.

Yeah, Helena, why don't you do that? I've never seen you do that because you're well prepared. No, I genuinely meant what I said. I appreciate I love talking to you. I've always been a fan of your ideas, and you know to have I've had so many interactions with you. It makes me very grateful.

Yeah, Helena, why don't you do that? I've never seen you do that because you're well prepared. No, I genuinely meant what I said. I appreciate I love talking to you. I've always been a fan of your ideas, and you know to have I've had so many interactions with you. It makes me very grateful.

So well, sometimes it's good when like something terrible happens, I just think about it as like crossing it off the list. Like I remember I gave this talk. This is maybe like fifteen years ago. I gave a talk at Yale. There's this thing called the Master's Tea, and you give a talk in the house of one of the headmasters at Yale. It's this sort of prestigious thing that's really cool. I haven't given many talks. And I'm sitting there and you sit on these couches and like a handful of students are invited, and I'm sitting there and I feel something on my shoulder and then I look over and there's someone leaning on my shoulder, and what's this? And I realized that one of the students is falling asleep while I was talking. And so I'm like, you know it'll never be that bad. That's like the word you know you Sometimes you want to get the terrible things out of the way, and then you're just like all right, Like it doesn't matter how much I screw up, how bad the podcast goes, It's unlikely my voice will completely abandon me ever again.

So well, sometimes it's good when like something terrible happens, I just think about it as like crossing it off the list. Like I remember I gave this talk. This is maybe like fifteen years ago. I gave a talk at Yale. There's this thing called the Master's Tea, and you give a talk in the house of one of the headmasters at Yale. It's this sort of prestigious thing that's really cool. I haven't given many talks. And I'm sitting there and you sit on these couches and like a handful of students are invited, and I'm sitting there and I feel something on my shoulder and then I look over and there's someone leaning on my shoulder, and what's this? And I realized that one of the students is falling asleep while I was talking. And so I'm like, you know it'll never be that bad. That's like the word you know you Sometimes you want to get the terrible things out of the way, and then you're just like all right, Like it doesn't matter how much I screw up, how bad the podcast goes, It's unlikely my voice will completely abandon me ever again.

And now I can rest to show.

And now I can rest to show.

That's amazing. Yeah, I got to have that's crazy. I got to have one of those experiences early early on in my life. I was like seven or eight years old, and we used to do in London school assemblies that were dedicated to people's religious holidays at school. So you'd celebrate everything from Hannukah to Christmas to Divali, et cetera. And so it was Dvali, and coming from an Indian background and a Hindu background, I was my mom had volunteered for me to perform a peace in my not even native language, but scriptural language, dressed up as an ancient Indian prince king vibe. And so I go out there. The clothes are not flattering, like it's not looking right, and there's parts of my body showing. It's almost like a toga, like an Indian toga. And I have to read this thing, which I'm not very familiar with, and I have to sing it too, and I have a terrible singing voice. I can't sing to say my life. And I start singing, and all my friends are in the audience and they burst out laughing, and then I'm getting really nervous, and everyone's laughing so much that I start crying. And then I forget the lines because I'm so nervous. So I look down to read them and I can't read them because my tears have smudged the words on the page. And then all of a sudden, this is the most embarrassing part. My teacher comes on, puts her arm around me, and walks me off stage. And I didn't live that down. That was my first over experience in public speaking. So no, no, I hope not. I hope not now. But you know, I'm really excited to talk to you about this. Was you just asked me a question, and you know, we were just talking about this, and I said, let's start recording because it's a good, good conversation. You asked me if I'm thinking about being a parent, and I was saying that me and my wife have always wanted to have kids. But it's really interesting because we'd set up a life that we thought we were going to have. We bought a house right next to her parents, near all our friends in London. It was small but wonderful, and we were surrounded by the community we thought we had. And then my career took off in a very unexpected way, which brought me to New York and now to la And it's really interesting that as things started to change in what we expected of life, our expectations of ourselves changed. And that hasn't changed the desire to have kids. But what did change was, you know, my wife got so immersed in discovering her passion, something that she never even thought she'd think about, and having discovered that, we started to have Really we've always had really healthy, open conversations around not when to have kids, because I think, to me, that isn't necessarily the right conversation. To me, the healthiest conversation with my wife has been do we know how it's going to change our life to whatever degree you can know? And are we ready for that change right now? And that's kind of the structure that we've at least placed for our conversations to have a healthy understanding for each other.

That's amazing. Yeah, I got to have that's crazy. I got to have one of those experiences early early on in my life. I was like seven or eight years old, and we used to do in London school assemblies that were dedicated to people's religious holidays at school. So you'd celebrate everything from Hannukah to Christmas to Divali, et cetera. And so it was Dvali, and coming from an Indian background and a Hindu background, I was my mom had volunteered for me to perform a peace in my not even native language, but scriptural language, dressed up as an ancient Indian prince king vibe. And so I go out there. The clothes are not flattering, like it's not looking right, and there's parts of my body showing. It's almost like a toga, like an Indian toga. And I have to read this thing, which I'm not very familiar with, and I have to sing it too, and I have a terrible singing voice. I can't sing to say my life. And I start singing, and all my friends are in the audience and they burst out laughing, and then I'm getting really nervous, and everyone's laughing so much that I start crying. And then I forget the lines because I'm so nervous. So I look down to read them and I can't read them because my tears have smudged the words on the page. And then all of a sudden, this is the most embarrassing part. My teacher comes on, puts her arm around me, and walks me off stage. And I didn't live that down. That was my first over experience in public speaking. So no, no, I hope not. I hope not now. But you know, I'm really excited to talk to you about this. Was you just asked me a question, and you know, we were just talking about this, and I said, let's start recording because it's a good, good conversation. You asked me if I'm thinking about being a parent, and I was saying that me and my wife have always wanted to have kids. But it's really interesting because we'd set up a life that we thought we were going to have. We bought a house right next to her parents, near all our friends in London. It was small but wonderful, and we were surrounded by the community we thought we had. And then my career took off in a very unexpected way, which brought me to New York and now to la And it's really interesting that as things started to change in what we expected of life, our expectations of ourselves changed. And that hasn't changed the desire to have kids. But what did change was, you know, my wife got so immersed in discovering her passion, something that she never even thought she'd think about, and having discovered that, we started to have Really we've always had really healthy, open conversations around not when to have kids, because I think, to me, that isn't necessarily the right conversation. To me, the healthiest conversation with my wife has been do we know how it's going to change our life to whatever degree you can know? And are we ready for that change right now? And that's kind of the structure that we've at least placed for our conversations to have a healthy understanding for each other.

I think what you said at the beginning, though, it was interesting because so a lot of people talk about having kids, but you said, are we going to be parents?

I think what you said at the beginning, though, it was interesting because so a lot of people talk about having kids, but you said, are we going to be parents?

And I think that's an interesting distinction that we don't talk about enough.

And I think that's an interesting distinction that we don't talk about enough.

Right, Like having kids is biological or it's legal, right you adopt, or you get a bonus kid from a marriage. Like there is having kids, like people who live in your house. And then there is the decision to be a parent. And unfortunately, there are a lot more people who have kids than there are people who are parents, people who decide to make this a central part of what they do.

Right, Like having kids is biological or it's legal, right you adopt, or you get a bonus kid from a marriage. Like there is having kids, like people who live in your house. And then there is the decision to be a parent. And unfortunately, there are a lot more people who have kids than there are people who are parents, people who decide to make this a central part of what they do.

Right, having kids is doing.

Right, having kids is doing.

The legal bare minimum what you have to do to keep child protective services away from your house. And then there is the decision to say, I'm going to change my life around this thing.

The legal bare minimum what you have to do to keep child protective services away from your house. And then there is the decision to say, I'm going to change my life around this thing.

This is going to be the main.

This is going to be the main.

Or one of the main things that I do, and I'm going to try to be really good at it. Right, Like most people spend a lot of time trying to get great at their careers. They want to make more money, they want to accomplish all these things. And then parenting is kind of this thing that we we just hope that we get right, we just win it right, and that's a tragic, skewed sense of priorities.

Or one of the main things that I do, and I'm going to try to be really good at it. Right, Like most people spend a lot of time trying to get great at their careers. They want to make more money, they want to accomplish all these things. And then parenting is kind of this thing that we we just hope that we get right, we just win it right, and that's a tragic, skewed sense of priorities.

I think that's a brilliant distinction. I'm so glad you raised that. You reminded me of there's this Vedic verse that says one should not take on the responsibility of being a parent unless they're ready to enlighten their child. Yeah, Like there's that kind of the idea of what you just said, of flipping the script of like when should we have kids? Do I want to have kids to do? I know what it means to be a parent, and that's hard sometimes, Like it's a challenge because I think all of us look at ourselves and we go we're flawed, normal individuals with trauma, with challenges, and we're like, well, maybe I don't deserve to have kids. You can go the other way, or I'll never be quality to have kids. Yeah.

I think that's a brilliant distinction. I'm so glad you raised that. You reminded me of there's this Vedic verse that says one should not take on the responsibility of being a parent unless they're ready to enlighten their child. Yeah, Like there's that kind of the idea of what you just said, of flipping the script of like when should we have kids? Do I want to have kids to do? I know what it means to be a parent, and that's hard sometimes, Like it's a challenge because I think all of us look at ourselves and we go we're flawed, normal individuals with trauma, with challenges, and we're like, well, maybe I don't deserve to have kids. You can go the other way, or I'll never be quality to have kids. Yeah.

The comedian Tom Segura has this bit where he goes, you know, people say that having kids changes you, and he goes, that's not quite right. It's that having kids should change you, right, So like if you're not ready to be changed. That's one of the things when people ask me to go, I'm thinking about having kids, what should I do? And I go, you have to be ready for it to change you, Like, not only can you not live and organize your life the same way, but you're going to be opened emotionally, physically, spiritually in all of these ways that if you're resistant to because you liked the way things were before, you're not only doing your kids a disservice, but I think you're doing yourself a disservice because this is this is a profound, you know, sort of shift on a human level, and if you're not ready to be changed by it, you're probably not ready to do it.

The comedian Tom Segura has this bit where he goes, you know, people say that having kids changes you, and he goes, that's not quite right. It's that having kids should change you, right, So like if you're not ready to be changed. That's one of the things when people ask me to go, I'm thinking about having kids, what should I do? And I go, you have to be ready for it to change you, Like, not only can you not live and organize your life the same way, but you're going to be opened emotionally, physically, spiritually in all of these ways that if you're resistant to because you liked the way things were before, you're not only doing your kids a disservice, but I think you're doing yourself a disservice because this is this is a profound, you know, sort of shift on a human level, and if you're not ready to be changed by it, you're probably not ready to do it.

Were you disconscious about being a parent before you were a parent or is it something that came from the process.

Were you disconscious about being a parent before you were a parent or is it something that came from the process.

No, it definitely came from the process. Like you think, you think you know and you have ideas, but it's not until this thing happens.

No, it definitely came from the process. Like you think, you think you know and you have ideas, but it's not until this thing happens.

To you that you go, oh, all these other.

To you that you go, oh, all these other.

Things aren't as important to me anymore. Right, I think I do wish sometimes I think about wishing that I'd done it earlier. There's this thing that happens when you achieve what you set out to achieve, right, which is that you realize it doesn't mean that much.

Things aren't as important to me anymore. Right, I think I do wish sometimes I think about wishing that I'd done it earlier. There's this thing that happens when you achieve what you set out to achieve, right, which is that you realize it doesn't mean that much.

Right.

Right.

You write a best selling book, you sell a screenplay, you know, you have some number in your mind, and then maybe it's winning a gold medal. You do something, and then you get it and you go, oh, this is like nothing, right, this is this didn't change what I thought it would change. It didn't transform me in the way that I thought it transformed me. I feel lucky that I'd done a bunch of those things before I had kids, because then I'd already I was already wrestling with the not the emptiness, but I was wrestling with the inescapable conclusion that piling accomplishments on top of accomplishments is not the way that one finds meaning in their life or their existence.

You write a best selling book, you sell a screenplay, you know, you have some number in your mind, and then maybe it's winning a gold medal. You do something, and then you get it and you go, oh, this is like nothing, right, this is this didn't change what I thought it would change. It didn't transform me in the way that I thought it transformed me. I feel lucky that I'd done a bunch of those things before I had kids, because then I'd already I was already wrestling with the not the emptiness, but I was wrestling with the inescapable conclusion that piling accomplishments on top of accomplishments is not the way that one finds meaning in their life or their existence.

What do you think it does do? Then? Like, what does it do in any goal? And of course some goals are have a different scale to others. But the idea of becoming a best selling author, or someone who's listening saying I want to launch a big podcast, or someone saying I want the way I look at it is And I remember going on a really long walk with you once, like through New York, before I'd ever written a book or anything, and it was around the time when I first interviewed you. If someone honestly asked me when I was doing this type of work offline, I actually A never believed it would be big, and B was not trying to make it big. So if someone would have asked me when I was whether I was eighteen or whether I was twenty five, and said to me, Jay, what's your goal here, my honest answer would have been, I'm just trying to make ancient wisdom relevant because I get joy out of that act in and of itself, Like the act of studying, researching, and simplifying brings me joy, sure, And I love teaching and sharing and sharing those ideas with people and hearing what they have to say about it. And so I was doing that for five to ten people every week, for hours every day. I was already happy. Now my life changed when scale became possible, when a video by mistake went viral, like it wasn't that I thought it would go viral or whatever, and then life has changed. But so partly my answer to that question, or my reflection to the question I'm asking you, is I don't think you should ever start something wanting it to be big. In the first place. But what what does having a goal achieve and what type of goal should we set? Well?

What do you think it does do? Then? Like, what does it do in any goal? And of course some goals are have a different scale to others. But the idea of becoming a best selling author, or someone who's listening saying I want to launch a big podcast, or someone saying I want the way I look at it is And I remember going on a really long walk with you once, like through New York, before I'd ever written a book or anything, and it was around the time when I first interviewed you. If someone honestly asked me when I was doing this type of work offline, I actually A never believed it would be big, and B was not trying to make it big. So if someone would have asked me when I was whether I was eighteen or whether I was twenty five, and said to me, Jay, what's your goal here, my honest answer would have been, I'm just trying to make ancient wisdom relevant because I get joy out of that act in and of itself, Like the act of studying, researching, and simplifying brings me joy, sure, And I love teaching and sharing and sharing those ideas with people and hearing what they have to say about it. And so I was doing that for five to ten people every week, for hours every day. I was already happy. Now my life changed when scale became possible, when a video by mistake went viral, like it wasn't that I thought it would go viral or whatever, and then life has changed. But so partly my answer to that question, or my reflection to the question I'm asking you, is I don't think you should ever start something wanting it to be big. In the first place. But what what does having a goal achieve and what type of goal should we set? Well?

Lets Stokes talk about attaching your goals only to things that are in your control. So if your ambition is to be accepted by a certain group, to move a certain number of units, to make a certain amount of money, to be invited to certain club, you know, if things line up, great, but there's also a very significant chance that they won't line up. And so the idea is that you tie your ambition, your intention, your your motivation to the parts of it that are up to you. I really like doing it. I get better. Like one of the reasons I wrote the Daily Stoke and the Daily Dad is that I have become better as a person for the meditative practice of having to produce this thing on a daily basis. So if it also then goes on to be successful, then I get this sort of this bonus success of the rewards or the royalties or whatever. So it's I think you want to root what you're trying to do as much as possible in what is up to you. If you only enter competitions where winning is up to you, you always be a winner, right, And so if you if your goal is to beat this other person, right, to be more than this other person's other type of person. I remember I talked to this author one and he was working on this book and he said, I said, what's your goal? And he said, oh, I want to sell like two million copies? And I said, well, where'd that number came from? And he's like, well, I heard somebody had sold a million copies and I doubled it. And so the arbitrariness of just wanting to one up some other person, it's not only sort of empty and trivial, but like, it's not really rooted in anything that's up to you, right, And I think the best way to think about it is, is this thing up to me or not? And what I have found is that when you accomplish those things, it's great, but it doesn't fix whatever you thought it was trying to fix. It doesn't fill whatever you thought it was trying to fill. I wish I could give to everyone that understanding as early as possible. I do think it's probably something you have to experience at some level on your own, but ideally you experience it not on your fifth Super Bowl ring and you go, oh, it's never you know ideally that that comes as early as possible in the process. That doesn't mean that once you figure out you stop doing it, you do stop. You can keep doing it, but you've just you've broken the connection between like your sense of self and these external things that are not up to you.

Lets Stokes talk about attaching your goals only to things that are in your control. So if your ambition is to be accepted by a certain group, to move a certain number of units, to make a certain amount of money, to be invited to certain club, you know, if things line up, great, but there's also a very significant chance that they won't line up. And so the idea is that you tie your ambition, your intention, your your motivation to the parts of it that are up to you. I really like doing it. I get better. Like one of the reasons I wrote the Daily Stoke and the Daily Dad is that I have become better as a person for the meditative practice of having to produce this thing on a daily basis. So if it also then goes on to be successful, then I get this sort of this bonus success of the rewards or the royalties or whatever. So it's I think you want to root what you're trying to do as much as possible in what is up to you. If you only enter competitions where winning is up to you, you always be a winner, right, And so if you if your goal is to beat this other person, right, to be more than this other person's other type of person. I remember I talked to this author one and he was working on this book and he said, I said, what's your goal? And he said, oh, I want to sell like two million copies? And I said, well, where'd that number came from? And he's like, well, I heard somebody had sold a million copies and I doubled it. And so the arbitrariness of just wanting to one up some other person, it's not only sort of empty and trivial, but like, it's not really rooted in anything that's up to you, right, And I think the best way to think about it is, is this thing up to me or not? And what I have found is that when you accomplish those things, it's great, but it doesn't fix whatever you thought it was trying to fix. It doesn't fill whatever you thought it was trying to fill. I wish I could give to everyone that understanding as early as possible. I do think it's probably something you have to experience at some level on your own, but ideally you experience it not on your fifth Super Bowl ring and you go, oh, it's never you know ideally that that comes as early as possible in the process. That doesn't mean that once you figure out you stop doing it, you do stop. You can keep doing it, but you've just you've broken the connection between like your sense of self and these external things that are not up to you.

Yeah. Yeah, that resonates. I feel like for me, growing and learning are just such integral components of being alive and feeling like there's progress and there's momentum that I try and pick goals that I'm challenged by the growth I'll have to make. I set goals based on the growth I want, not based on the goal. So for example, I just finished a nearly forty city world tour. It wasn't that I wanted to go on a world tour. To go on a world tour, It was like I wanted the feeling of can I have I built up my health and resilience. Can I go on stage every night and deliver? What does it feel like to pour love into the people who support my work. I've been doing this for seven years online. Yeah, I've pretty much never met more than one percent of my audience. If that, What does it feel like to build community again? For people, and that's the stuff that gets you through it when it's tough, because the title or the whatever the external reward would be doesn't motivate you. When I fell sick in one city and I had to cancel a show that night and the next day I had to wake up, get on a flight and do two shows back to back that day, And the only thing that gets you through is I want to do this for my community. This means something to me, Like there's this amazing thing that I always think about because it blows my mind. When Kobe Bryant passed away, his wife Vanessa was giving a speech and she said that he was always playing through injuries and everyone knew that, but no one really knew the reason. And she asked him in a private conversation, I believe one night, like why do you do it? And he said, it's because someone is saved up to watch me play and they might only ever be able to afford one time to watch me play, sure, and I don't want to let them down. And that's how he played through injury. It wasn't that he wanted the championship more, or that he wanted the ring more. It was that I want to be there for my fans who are showing up for me.

Yeah. Yeah, that resonates. I feel like for me, growing and learning are just such integral components of being alive and feeling like there's progress and there's momentum that I try and pick goals that I'm challenged by the growth I'll have to make. I set goals based on the growth I want, not based on the goal. So for example, I just finished a nearly forty city world tour. It wasn't that I wanted to go on a world tour. To go on a world tour, It was like I wanted the feeling of can I have I built up my health and resilience. Can I go on stage every night and deliver? What does it feel like to pour love into the people who support my work. I've been doing this for seven years online. Yeah, I've pretty much never met more than one percent of my audience. If that, What does it feel like to build community again? For people, and that's the stuff that gets you through it when it's tough, because the title or the whatever the external reward would be doesn't motivate you. When I fell sick in one city and I had to cancel a show that night and the next day I had to wake up, get on a flight and do two shows back to back that day, And the only thing that gets you through is I want to do this for my community. This means something to me, Like there's this amazing thing that I always think about because it blows my mind. When Kobe Bryant passed away, his wife Vanessa was giving a speech and she said that he was always playing through injuries and everyone knew that, but no one really knew the reason. And she asked him in a private conversation, I believe one night, like why do you do it? And he said, it's because someone is saved up to watch me play and they might only ever be able to afford one time to watch me play, sure, and I don't want to let them down. And that's how he played through injury. It wasn't that he wanted the championship more, or that he wanted the ring more. It was that I want to be there for my fans who are showing up for me.

Interesting.

Interesting.

I want to hear your thoughts on the Yeah, I.

I want to hear your thoughts on the Yeah, I.

Mean you have.

Mean you have.

You have my book Conspiracy right there, which I saw when I came in. And that's my worst selling book.

You have my book Conspiracy right there, which I saw when I came in. And that's my worst selling book.

It is not that it has.

It is not that it has.

It's just it's it's not sold well, but it's it's the one that, without questions, people ask me what book I'm most proud of.

It's just it's it's not sold well, but it's it's the one that, without questions, people ask me what book I'm most proud of.

It's that one.

It's that one.

And and that's because I grew the most writing. It was the most outside my wheelhouse. It was the most challenging. It was the one I had the most doubts as to whether I could pull off. And it's the one that sort of most authentically the interesting to me.

And and that's because I grew the most writing. It was the most outside my wheelhouse. It was the most challenging. It was the one I had the most doubts as to whether I could pull off. And it's the one that sort of most authentically the interesting to me.

While I was doing it.

While I was doing it.

You love all the projects that you do, but that one was just different, you know it was.

You love all the projects that you do, but that one was just different, you know it was.

It was just different in so many ways. If you can find a way.

It was just different in so many ways. If you can find a way.

When when the Stokes are saying, if you only enter things that we're winning, is up to you, you always win. What they're saying is that if it's intrinsically interesting and compelling and challenging to you, you're doing it because you like the puzzle of it, then you've already won, and then everything else is extra. And you know, for basketball, if you like playing basketball, and there's a reason it's called playing right, if you like the thing, then then all the other stuff is extra. But if for you, winning is what gets you up out of it, well, then what happens if you're drafted by a team that's not any good, or what if you are crippled with injuries or you know any number of things? Right, winning is not up to you enjoying the day to day thiss of it, the lacing up of the sneakers, the squeaking of the shoes on the floor, the balancing of the ball, like the warm ups, you know, the crew. If you love all of that, then everything else is extra. And you got to figure out how to love like the purity of the thing itself and find something in it that is fulfilling and wonderful just to you before it's ever out. That's the purest place, and I've had to do work on that. I've said this before, but like probably with my first book, I was probably like ninety percent interested in how it did and ten percent like proud of what I've done. And I'd like to think I've gotten that flipped. I mean, if you don't care about it at all, like you're not going to keep doing them, and you have partners, and you know, you have employees, you have all these things that are dependent on it doing well. But ideally, most of the success is off the table just from having done it, because what if it comes out on the day of a terrorist attack or a natural disaster or a printer shortage, Like, there's so many things that could happen that could get between you and the thing that you wanted. But if you enjoyed doing it, then then you've picked all the fruit that's up to you to pick.

When when the Stokes are saying, if you only enter things that we're winning, is up to you, you always win. What they're saying is that if it's intrinsically interesting and compelling and challenging to you, you're doing it because you like the puzzle of it, then you've already won, and then everything else is extra. And you know, for basketball, if you like playing basketball, and there's a reason it's called playing right, if you like the thing, then then all the other stuff is extra. But if for you, winning is what gets you up out of it, well, then what happens if you're drafted by a team that's not any good, or what if you are crippled with injuries or you know any number of things? Right, winning is not up to you enjoying the day to day thiss of it, the lacing up of the sneakers, the squeaking of the shoes on the floor, the balancing of the ball, like the warm ups, you know, the crew. If you love all of that, then everything else is extra. And you got to figure out how to love like the purity of the thing itself and find something in it that is fulfilling and wonderful just to you before it's ever out. That's the purest place, and I've had to do work on that. I've said this before, but like probably with my first book, I was probably like ninety percent interested in how it did and ten percent like proud of what I've done. And I'd like to think I've gotten that flipped. I mean, if you don't care about it at all, like you're not going to keep doing them, and you have partners, and you know, you have employees, you have all these things that are dependent on it doing well. But ideally, most of the success is off the table just from having done it, because what if it comes out on the day of a terrorist attack or a natural disaster or a printer shortage, Like, there's so many things that could happen that could get between you and the thing that you wanted. But if you enjoyed doing it, then then you've picked all the fruit that's up to you to pick.

Yeah. Absolutely. You reminded me of a statement by George Bernard Sure where he said, we don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing. And it's that idea of just you're so right, Like I feel out of touch with myself when I'm not reading and learning and reflecting, Like that's when I feel misaligned. If my life gets too far away from finding new ideas, experimenting with them, discovering them, trying to understand them and wrap my head around them. If I'm not filling my brain up with not just ideas theoretically, but even physically trying something new, experimenting with something I've never done before, I find that's when I'm misaligned with who I am.

Yeah. Absolutely. You reminded me of a statement by George Bernard Sure where he said, we don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing. And it's that idea of just you're so right, Like I feel out of touch with myself when I'm not reading and learning and reflecting, Like that's when I feel misaligned. If my life gets too far away from finding new ideas, experimenting with them, discovering them, trying to understand them and wrap my head around them. If I'm not filling my brain up with not just ideas theoretically, but even physically trying something new, experimenting with something I've never done before, I find that's when I'm misaligned with who I am.

Well, yeah, look, success in your chosen field cannot be not having time to do what you like to do in said field, right, Like if I don't have time to read, if I don't have time to write, if I'm not on my routine, on my schedule, what kind of success is that I've mortgaged myself for a bunch of things that I don't want to do. You know, those things might be lucrative, those things might be fun, those things.

Well, yeah, look, success in your chosen field cannot be not having time to do what you like to do in said field, right, Like if I don't have time to read, if I don't have time to write, if I'm not on my routine, on my schedule, what kind of success is that I've mortgaged myself for a bunch of things that I don't want to do. You know, those things might be lucrative, those things might be fun, those things.

Might be rewarding in their own ways, But the main thing is like what got you into this?

Might be rewarding in their own ways, But the main thing is like what got you into this?

Right?

Right?

And if you don't have the time to do that, what kind of success is that?

And if you don't have the time to do that, what kind of success is that?

Right?

Right?

It can be very easy to just say yes to all the things that are coming in and then you wake up and you go it has been weeks since I did X, Y or Z, like the things that light me up?

It can be very easy to just say yes to all the things that are coming in and then you wake up and you go it has been weeks since I did X, Y or Z, like the things that light me up?

Like what is the things that light you up?

Like what is the things that light you up?

And success should facilitate you being able to do as much of those things as you want to do. Are there always going to be administrative things and obligations and business of course, but if you don't have time to do the thing only you can do, Like, what kind of life is that?

And success should facilitate you being able to do as much of those things as you want to do. Are there always going to be administrative things and obligations and business of course, but if you don't have time to do the thing only you can do, Like, what kind of life is that?

Hey everyone, it's Jay Shetty here. I'm excited to share something true, truly transformative with you today. As many of you know, I'm deeply passionate about health and wellness, and I've invested into a groundbreaking company called function Health that aligns perfectly with this passion. Function Health is a health platform that's changing the game by empowering people to truly understand what's happening inside their bodies and what they can do to optimize their health. Think of it as an early warning system for disease and a comprehensive guide to managing your health. Imagine having access to over one hundred lab tests that's five times more than a typical physical. Function Health's annual membership includes extensive testing for your heart, hormones, thyroid, cancer signals, liver, kidney autoimmunity, immunity, metabolic health, nutrients and minerals, inflammation, stress, aging, heavy metals, toxins, electrolytes, and more. This comprehensive approach assists you in having a clearer picture of your health and actionable steps to prove it. One of the most remarkable aspects of function Health is its accessibility. It's available across the United States, partnering with Quest Diagnostics, which is over two thousand locations within ten miles of most homes. And get this through a membership with function Health that costs just four hundred and ninety nine dollars a year. You gain access to all of these tests that could cost up to fifteen thousand dollars on your own. That's only one dollar thirty seven per day. Function Health is for everyone eighteen years or older and provides comprehensive testing for both men and women, including deep hormone panels. Now here's the exciting part. Function Health has a two hundred and fifty thousand person wait list, but they've given early access to a limited number of people in my community. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take control of your health. Go to functionhealth dot com forward slash jyshdy to get started again. That's functionhealth dot com forward slash Jay Shetty for early access. Let's make our health a priority together. I know we both feel grateful and have charted our own in some way. Similar parts from moving from a corporate career to doing what we love today, and I know we both feel very grateful to be able to do that, But I want to go back to when you were there, and even when I was there, I think about what really worked for me was so I was at extensia, if anyone who doesn't know, I was at accentua after I left the monastery because I needed to find a way to pay the bills and just reconnect with the real world and figure out how I fit in again. And the corporate world was what I would have naturally done before, so it was where I ended up, and I didn't enjoy being a consultant, like that is not who I am in any way. But at that time I didn't know what was possible, but I knew that I could demonstrate my own skills at work. So I started to plan these idea days at work because that was something that work wanted, where I would get to bring in speakers, is to help people be more curious and excited. And I remember we had Sali Mishmel, who wrote Exponential Organizations, come in one day and my mind was blown because I was like, I'm going to hang out with this guy, and there's another person who was a writer and a speaker. And so I was always trying to find ways it work to kind of dovetail my career to get me into the things I was interested by, and that worked for me as a way of satisfying me at work, even though the actual job day to day wasn't How were you doing that? I know you enjoyed marketing and always have, but what would you say to someone who's sitting here going, Yeah, you guys are lucky. You get to do what you love every day. Obviously, you just have to get the percentages right. But I'm stuck in a job that hey.

Hey everyone, it's Jay Shetty here. I'm excited to share something true, truly transformative with you today. As many of you know, I'm deeply passionate about health and wellness, and I've invested into a groundbreaking company called function Health that aligns perfectly with this passion. Function Health is a health platform that's changing the game by empowering people to truly understand what's happening inside their bodies and what they can do to optimize their health. Think of it as an early warning system for disease and a comprehensive guide to managing your health. Imagine having access to over one hundred lab tests that's five times more than a typical physical. Function Health's annual membership includes extensive testing for your heart, hormones, thyroid, cancer signals, liver, kidney autoimmunity, immunity, metabolic health, nutrients and minerals, inflammation, stress, aging, heavy metals, toxins, electrolytes, and more. This comprehensive approach assists you in having a clearer picture of your health and actionable steps to prove it. One of the most remarkable aspects of function Health is its accessibility. It's available across the United States, partnering with Quest Diagnostics, which is over two thousand locations within ten miles of most homes. And get this through a membership with function Health that costs just four hundred and ninety nine dollars a year. You gain access to all of these tests that could cost up to fifteen thousand dollars on your own. That's only one dollar thirty seven per day. Function Health is for everyone eighteen years or older and provides comprehensive testing for both men and women, including deep hormone panels. Now here's the exciting part. Function Health has a two hundred and fifty thousand person wait list, but they've given early access to a limited number of people in my community. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take control of your health. Go to functionhealth dot com forward slash jyshdy to get started again. That's functionhealth dot com forward slash Jay Shetty for early access. Let's make our health a priority together. I know we both feel grateful and have charted our own in some way. Similar parts from moving from a corporate career to doing what we love today, and I know we both feel very grateful to be able to do that, But I want to go back to when you were there, and even when I was there, I think about what really worked for me was so I was at extensia, if anyone who doesn't know, I was at accentua after I left the monastery because I needed to find a way to pay the bills and just reconnect with the real world and figure out how I fit in again. And the corporate world was what I would have naturally done before, so it was where I ended up, and I didn't enjoy being a consultant, like that is not who I am in any way. But at that time I didn't know what was possible, but I knew that I could demonstrate my own skills at work. So I started to plan these idea days at work because that was something that work wanted, where I would get to bring in speakers, is to help people be more curious and excited. And I remember we had Sali Mishmel, who wrote Exponential Organizations, come in one day and my mind was blown because I was like, I'm going to hang out with this guy, and there's another person who was a writer and a speaker. And so I was always trying to find ways it work to kind of dovetail my career to get me into the things I was interested by, and that worked for me as a way of satisfying me at work, even though the actual job day to day wasn't How were you doing that? I know you enjoyed marketing and always have, but what would you say to someone who's sitting here going, Yeah, you guys are lucky. You get to do what you love every day. Obviously, you just have to get the percentages right. But I'm stuck in a job that hey.

Well it's funny. We did have very similar past I remember. So I don't believe in this idea that you have to like quit your job, blow up your life to pursue some sort of thing. I wrote three books why I was a full time employee at a large fashion brand, and if you are good at what you do, you can get leverage at that company to pursue these other things.

Well it's funny. We did have very similar past I remember. So I don't believe in this idea that you have to like quit your job, blow up your life to pursue some sort of thing. I wrote three books why I was a full time employee at a large fashion brand, and if you are good at what you do, you can get leverage at that company to pursue these other things.

But I remember this.

But I remember this.

Would have been like the summer of twenty fourteen. So I'd written a couple of books and I had I've gone back to American Apparel, where I was sort of consulting in the turnaround of the company. I was getting this huge consultant fee. I was making great money. And I remember I was running in the morning and I got this like alert on my phone that I had a meeting, like I had a staff meeting, and I something hit me.

Would have been like the summer of twenty fourteen. So I'd written a couple of books and I had I've gone back to American Apparel, where I was sort of consulting in the turnaround of the company. I was getting this huge consultant fee. I was making great money. And I remember I was running in the morning and I got this like alert on my phone that I had a meeting, like I had a staff meeting, and I something hit me.

It hit me.

It hit me.

It was like how many people would kill to write books for a living, which is what I wanted to do more than anything, And here I am rushing to get to a staff meeting because it's paying well, Like this life is too short to be cutting short the things that you want to do that help you be better at what you do, you know, to go to some meeting, and so at some point you make the transition. But for me, the idea was as long as my sort of corporate work was supporting and facilityating me doing the other stuff, it was great. And then as soon as they were fighting for the same resources that I made that shift. But I think some people think that it's it's about this sort of bold burn the boats.

It was like how many people would kill to write books for a living, which is what I wanted to do more than anything, And here I am rushing to get to a staff meeting because it's paying well, Like this life is too short to be cutting short the things that you want to do that help you be better at what you do, you know, to go to some meeting, and so at some point you make the transition. But for me, the idea was as long as my sort of corporate work was supporting and facilityating me doing the other stuff, it was great. And then as soon as they were fighting for the same resources that I made that shift. But I think some people think that it's it's about this sort of bold burn the boats.

Behind you think, And it can be. I mean, at some point you do have to do that.

Behind you think, And it can be. I mean, at some point you do have to do that.

But I talk to people and they're like they're quitting their job to write a book, but they haven't published a single thing online. They haven't uploaded a single video, you know, And just start, just start. You can start way smaller than you think. And the first thing that you put out there in the world should not be a screenplay or a book or whatever.

But I talk to people and they're like they're quitting their job to write a book, but they haven't published a single thing online. They haven't uploaded a single video, you know, And just start, just start. You can start way smaller than you think. And the first thing that you put out there in the world should not be a screenplay or a book or whatever.

Like you need.

Like you need.

You need so much interaction with the audience to find out what they like, what you like, what resonates what you know. I wrote online every day for something like six years before I got paid a single dollar. I started my first website in the summer of two thousand and five, and my first book came out in the summer of twenty twelve. You know, I didn't hit the New York Times but for another five years after that. It takes a long time. There's a great law, it's called Hofstatters law, and it says that it always takes longer than you expect. Even when you take this law into account, right like, it's it's gonna take way longer than you thought. And so if you quit in this sort of dramatic gesture, you know you're not You're not gonna have the runway to.

You need so much interaction with the audience to find out what they like, what you like, what resonates what you know. I wrote online every day for something like six years before I got paid a single dollar. I started my first website in the summer of two thousand and five, and my first book came out in the summer of twenty twelve. You know, I didn't hit the New York Times but for another five years after that. It takes a long time. There's a great law, it's called Hofstatters law, and it says that it always takes longer than you expect. Even when you take this law into account, right like, it's it's gonna take way longer than you thought. And so if you quit in this sort of dramatic gesture, you know you're not You're not gonna have the runway to.

Pull it off. Right.

Pull it off. Right.

You need like a lot of runway, a lot of time, and so that that was certainly my path, is it?

You need like a lot of runway, a lot of time, and so that that was certainly my path, is it?

It took a lot longer than I thought.

It took a lot longer than I thought.

Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad you raised that, and I love that tracking back of your journey just now. And that law is awesome because it's it's so true when it comes to anything in life. And for me, I always say that to people because obviously I've been creating online work for seven years now, and that feels like a very short period of time for most people. Yeah, but I'm like, no, Well, for ten years before these seven years, I did this multiple times a week offline to groups of five to ten people for three hours, four times a week, three times a week, spending time with people, coaching, mentoring, working for no money, for no followers, for no fame, no success. And then on top of that, did seven years of public speaking training before that, which my parents forced me to go to after the event that I told you about at the beginning, from age eleven to age eighteen. So my public speaking communication journey started at eleven. I'm thirty five today. That's twenty four years of repetition.

Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad you raised that, and I love that tracking back of your journey just now. And that law is awesome because it's it's so true when it comes to anything in life. And for me, I always say that to people because obviously I've been creating online work for seven years now, and that feels like a very short period of time for most people. Yeah, but I'm like, no, Well, for ten years before these seven years, I did this multiple times a week offline to groups of five to ten people for three hours, four times a week, three times a week, spending time with people, coaching, mentoring, working for no money, for no followers, for no fame, no success. And then on top of that, did seven years of public speaking training before that, which my parents forced me to go to after the event that I told you about at the beginning, from age eleven to age eighteen. So my public speaking communication journey started at eleven. I'm thirty five today. That's twenty four years of repetition.

Yeah, you need a lot of reps. You need way more reps than you think that you do. And the amazing thing about what social media and internet does is that you can reach millions of people with your work. The nefarious thing about it is we hear about someone who uploads their first thing and blows up, and we think that that's how it goes, right, and it doesn't. It takes a long time, And I think what you're trying to do is build. You know what a flywheel is like, you're trying to You're trying to build this thing. It takes a long a large number of slow, methodical turns before it speeds up and speeds up and speeds up and then it starts to really spin and spin stuff off. It takes like a long a long time. You know, when the obstacle is the way it came out. It probably sold three thousand copies its first week. You know, it's now sold millions of copies, But that's where it started, right.

Yeah, you need a lot of reps. You need way more reps than you think that you do. And the amazing thing about what social media and internet does is that you can reach millions of people with your work. The nefarious thing about it is we hear about someone who uploads their first thing and blows up, and we think that that's how it goes, right, and it doesn't. It takes a long time, And I think what you're trying to do is build. You know what a flywheel is like, you're trying to You're trying to build this thing. It takes a long a large number of slow, methodical turns before it speeds up and speeds up and speeds up and then it starts to really spin and spin stuff off. It takes like a long a long time. You know, when the obstacle is the way it came out. It probably sold three thousand copies its first week. You know, it's now sold millions of copies, But that's where it started, right.

And it took a long time.

And it took a long time.

And so when people look at this sort of algorithmic success where they just upload a video and there's millions and millions of views, they think that that's how it's going to go. And really it's about sort of methodically building this audience person by person and also building your competence like rep by rep, you know, moment by moment, so then when you you suddenly do get the audience, you're actually ready for it. Like if I had gotten the audience that I thought I wanted or deserved when I wanted.

And so when people look at this sort of algorithmic success where they just upload a video and there's millions and millions of views, they think that that's how it's going to go. And really it's about sort of methodically building this audience person by person and also building your competence like rep by rep, you know, moment by moment, so then when you you suddenly do get the audience, you're actually ready for it. Like if I had gotten the audience that I thought I wanted or deserved when I wanted.

It, it would have been it would have been preposterous.

It, it would have been it would have been preposterous.

Yeah, I remember, I was actually just thinking about this because I was just doing the marketing for Daily Dad and I was in New York and I did the Daily Show and I did CBS Sunday Morning, and I did some I did a bunch of shows, and I remember thinking back when my first book came out in twenty twelve, the publicists had me put together a list of all of these outlets that I wanted to do, and I don't think we got any of them.

Yeah, I remember, I was actually just thinking about this because I was just doing the marketing for Daily Dad and I was in New York and I did the Daily Show and I did CBS Sunday Morning, and I did some I did a bunch of shows, and I remember thinking back when my first book came out in twenty twelve, the publicists had me put together a list of all of these outlets that I wanted to do, and I don't think we got any of them.

Right.

Right.

It's not that they did a bad job. It's just like we didn't get any of the things as I wasn't ready and the media didn't care. And then I realized, like on this launch, I did get those things, but it took more than ten years longer than I thought it would take, right, And now I'm getting it. But if I had gotten them, then I wouldn't have been ready. I wouldn't have been able to actually deliver, you know, on those at bats. And so you think you want it when you want it, but you don't, you know.

It's not that they did a bad job. It's just like we didn't get any of the things as I wasn't ready and the media didn't care. And then I realized, like on this launch, I did get those things, but it took more than ten years longer than I thought it would take, right, And now I'm getting it. But if I had gotten them, then I wouldn't have been ready. I wouldn't have been able to actually deliver, you know, on those at bats. And so you think you want it when you want it, but you don't, you know.

I heard something.

I heard something.

About the early days of Google where they were like, eventually everyone's going to try our product, but if they all try it now, we won't be able to deliver for them. They knew that, they knew it was getting better every day. So actually, from a marketing and a promotions and a sort of trajectory standpoint, they wanted to backload it as much as possible, not frontloaded, and that can be really hard. That requires so much discipline and so much patience to go. Actually, I don't want this right now. I want it when I'm ready. I want it when I'm good enough. You think you're being screwed, You think you know other people are getting the shots that you deserve, But it's actually for the best because you're getting better every single day. Yeah, And so I think about that of course with having kids too, Like if I'd have kids when I earlier, I wouldn't have been emotionally ready, you know.

About the early days of Google where they were like, eventually everyone's going to try our product, but if they all try it now, we won't be able to deliver for them. They knew that, they knew it was getting better every day. So actually, from a marketing and a promotions and a sort of trajectory standpoint, they wanted to backload it as much as possible, not frontloaded, and that can be really hard. That requires so much discipline and so much patience to go. Actually, I don't want this right now. I want it when I'm ready. I want it when I'm good enough. You think you're being screwed, You think you know other people are getting the shots that you deserve, But it's actually for the best because you're getting better every single day. Yeah, And so I think about that of course with having kids too, Like if I'd have kids when I earlier, I wouldn't have been emotionally ready, you know.

Like, so it's it's patience is all.

Like, so it's it's patience is all.

That's the hard pop about patience, right, because I think there's those two sides of the coin, where one's like, I believe I deserve it, which we hear a lot about and I want to dive into that with you, and then the other side of it is the mentality of well, no, I'm going to be patient and I'll be better when I get it.

That's the hard pop about patience, right, because I think there's those two sides of the coin, where one's like, I believe I deserve it, which we hear a lot about and I want to dive into that with you, and then the other side of it is the mentality of well, no, I'm going to be patient and I'll be better when I get it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's almost like, how does someone reconcile those two things because everyone's told to like believe in themselves and like know you're worth and kind of do this thing. And I'm more along the lines of you because so many things for me happened far more organically than by belief, and they happened far more by action than they did by thinking something. For me, it was, well, you're saying, like when you first came on my show at huff Post, It's like I went from having I was live every single day with the guests for nine months, five days a week, and then I did the Nasdaq thing where I was live when I was connected to great authors like yourself and other people that I could have on. So I before I launched my podcast in twenty nineteen, i'd done at least like two years of being live every day and no one like that show wasn't big or you know, it was good. It was good, definitely, but it wasn't what the podcast is today. And it was just like, but I got two years of reps of doing interviews.

And it's almost like, how does someone reconcile those two things because everyone's told to like believe in themselves and like know you're worth and kind of do this thing. And I'm more along the lines of you because so many things for me happened far more organically than by belief, and they happened far more by action than they did by thinking something. For me, it was, well, you're saying, like when you first came on my show at huff Post, It's like I went from having I was live every single day with the guests for nine months, five days a week, and then I did the Nasdaq thing where I was live when I was connected to great authors like yourself and other people that I could have on. So I before I launched my podcast in twenty nineteen, i'd done at least like two years of being live every day and no one like that show wasn't big or you know, it was good. It was good, definitely, but it wasn't what the podcast is today. And it was just like, but I got two years of reps of doing interviews.

Well, yeah, I was telling you, like the caliber of guests that you've been pulling on have been insane, right, Like you been getting people that don't do podcasts, right, And so I'm sure some of them you have tried to get on for a while and you would have been very excited to get them in twenty nineteen or twenty twenty or six months ago. But you're better now, right. So you think that you want it when you want it, but it's better to get it later because you'll be better later, right. And the patience and the confidence to be like I don't have to force it. There's that expression like don't run to catch trains. You know, It's like there's something in that like if you don't need to force it, if it's not a fit, it'll come back around, right. And the idea that I sometimes think that everything I've written so far, everything I've thought about, is actually all prologue or preparation for an idea or an idea in a moment in time that I can't even conceive of yet. Like, you know, Michael Lewis the author, Like he'd probably written fifteen books before the Big Short came out right when the markets melded down in two thousand and eight. He had written dozens of popular books about finance, about sports, about you know, tech entrepreneurs, and then that moment happened and he was the person to write that book, which sold millions of copies, was turned into a huge movie. That was when the man and the moment met, right, And I think Churchill said something about, like, you know, there comes this time in everyone's life where you know, destiny taps you on the shoulder and he says, it would be a shame if you weren't ready when that happened. And so you know, everyone thinks they're ready and they want it now, but you actually you don't know what the future holds. And so just this sense that like every day I get a little bit better. I work on it all the time. I'm putting in my reps, I'm following my process. I'm you know, putting in the hours and I have this maybe it's a little delusional, but I just have this vague sense that there's a thing that I haven't even thought of yet and that will be the best thing that I do.

Well, yeah, I was telling you, like the caliber of guests that you've been pulling on have been insane, right, Like you been getting people that don't do podcasts, right, And so I'm sure some of them you have tried to get on for a while and you would have been very excited to get them in twenty nineteen or twenty twenty or six months ago. But you're better now, right. So you think that you want it when you want it, but it's better to get it later because you'll be better later, right. And the patience and the confidence to be like I don't have to force it. There's that expression like don't run to catch trains. You know, It's like there's something in that like if you don't need to force it, if it's not a fit, it'll come back around, right. And the idea that I sometimes think that everything I've written so far, everything I've thought about, is actually all prologue or preparation for an idea or an idea in a moment in time that I can't even conceive of yet. Like, you know, Michael Lewis the author, Like he'd probably written fifteen books before the Big Short came out right when the markets melded down in two thousand and eight. He had written dozens of popular books about finance, about sports, about you know, tech entrepreneurs, and then that moment happened and he was the person to write that book, which sold millions of copies, was turned into a huge movie. That was when the man and the moment met, right, And I think Churchill said something about, like, you know, there comes this time in everyone's life where you know, destiny taps you on the shoulder and he says, it would be a shame if you weren't ready when that happened. And so you know, everyone thinks they're ready and they want it now, but you actually you don't know what the future holds. And so just this sense that like every day I get a little bit better. I work on it all the time. I'm putting in my reps, I'm following my process. I'm you know, putting in the hours and I have this maybe it's a little delusional, but I just have this vague sense that there's a thing that I haven't even thought of yet and that will be the best thing that I do.

Yeah, And that kind of keeps me going.

Yeah, And that kind of keeps me going.

What a beautiful way to live. That's spectacular. And at one point I remember sitting with someone and he wasn't trying to teach me. He wasn't a mentor. He was just I was sitting with him at a wedding and he was just telling stories of his life. And he did quite a fascinating life because of something that his dad did. And he used to just as a kid, be following to the daily dad, like following his dad around, and he was taken on crazy adventures and experiences as a little kid just because his dad had a crazy job. I used to listen to him and be like, Wow, this guy just has so many stories. They're not achievements. They're not like I got an award or it wasn't like oh and then I became invited. It was just he had a great set of stories he was sharing. And I realized that at one point I realized that collecting experiences, collecting skills collecting abilities qualities was so much more of a better pursuit. And I look at that what you just said for me today, it's like I chose to be a monk without knowing what it was before that. I went to public speaking school because my parents forced me to go, not knowing that. I never said, oh, I really want to be a public speaker at eleven years old. And then I went into the world of accenture and learned about business and strategy, which was very, very useful. And like today, I put all those three things together. Sure, and my career is based off all three of those experiences. But I could never have known that. And it goes back to that famous Steve Job statement of you can always connect the dots. You can't connect the dots moving forward. You only can looking backward. And so when you're living, it's almost like collect experiences and skills and abilities and relationships. When I was interviewing all those years ago, I would never have known that we would still be friends and we would connect and support each other. You've supported my books, but you're just collecting that connection and relationship, if that makes sense. Yeah.