Mental health is now talked about more than ever, which is awesome. I mean, I don't have to tell you that it's a primary focus of on Purpose, but on a day to day basis, many people don't know where to turn or which tools can help. Over the past couple of years, I've been working with Calm to make mental wellness accessible and enjoyable, or as I like to say, fun and easy. Calm has all sorts of content to help you reduce anxiety and stress, build mindful habits, improve sleep, and generally feel better in your daily life. So many bite size options from the most knowledgeable experts in the world, along with renowned meditation teachers. You can also check out my seven minute daily series to help you live more mindfully each and every day. Right now, listeners of on Purpose get forty percent off a subscription to Calmpremium at Calm dot com Forward slash j that's Calm dot com Forward slash jay for forty percent off Calm your Mind, Change your Life.

Mental health is now talked about more than ever, which is awesome. I mean, I don't have to tell you that it's a primary focus of on Purpose, but on a day to day basis, many people don't know where to turn or which tools can help. Over the past couple of years, I've been working with Calm to make mental wellness accessible and enjoyable, or as I like to say, fun and easy. Calm has all sorts of content to help you reduce anxiety and stress, build mindful habits, improve sleep, and generally feel better in your daily life. So many bite size options from the most knowledgeable experts in the world, along with renowned meditation teachers. You can also check out my seven minute daily series to help you live more mindfully each and every day. Right now, listeners of on Purpose get forty percent off a subscription to Calmpremium at Calm dot com Forward slash j that's Calm dot com Forward slash jay for forty percent off Calm your Mind, Change your Life.

I don't get about my network. So many people tell me I've got this great idea, but I don't want to hear about But like, let's go for it. Part of being the entrepreneurs have the courage to fail. If you're afraid to fail, you ain't gonna do shit.

I don't get about my network. So many people tell me I've got this great idea, but I don't want to hear about But like, let's go for it. Part of being the entrepreneurs have the courage to fail. If you're afraid to fail, you ain't gonna do shit.

The global sports company Fanatics and you heard of it.

The global sports company Fanatics and you heard of it.

Yeah Yeah, Founder and CEO Michael Rubin, Welcome back, sir. I've seen death in its eyes. I've almost gone bankrupt multiple times. There are so many things that I should not have succeeded at, but I have because I won't quit. If you set goals that are easy to accomplish, then you're actually saying you want to fail.

Yeah Yeah, Founder and CEO Michael Rubin, Welcome back, sir. I've seen death in its eyes. I've almost gone bankrupt multiple times. There are so many things that I should not have succeeded at, but I have because I won't quit. If you set goals that are easy to accomplish, then you're actually saying you want to fail.

Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments, and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me.

Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments, and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me.

The best selling author on the most the number one health and well in this podcast, Purpose with Jay Shetty.

The best selling author on the most the number one health and well in this podcast, Purpose with Jay Shetty.

Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now you know that my goal here and intention is to talk to people from different backgrounds, different walks of life. People who've achieved impact in their own life and are having an impact around and across the world. People who are motivated to do better, be better, and give back. And today's guest is someone who's doing exactly that, probably not as fast as he would like. I've just learned as well. I'm talking about the one and only Michael Rubin, an entrepreneur, philanthropist, and social justice advocate. Michael has built several multi billion dollar direct to consumer companies. Michael CEO of Fanatics, a global digital sports platform that is reimagining the fan experience across many different businesses. Michael's an advocate for criminal justice reform and the co chair of Reform Alliance, an organization that includes some of the biggest names in sports, business, and culture that's dedicated to advancing criminal justice reform and eradicating antiquated probation laws that perpetuate injustice in the United States. Michael was named Sports Business Journal Executive of the Year in twenty twenty two and has also been named to the Bleacher Report Power fifty list of most influential people in sports. Welcome to on Purpose, Michael Rubin.

Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now you know that my goal here and intention is to talk to people from different backgrounds, different walks of life. People who've achieved impact in their own life and are having an impact around and across the world. People who are motivated to do better, be better, and give back. And today's guest is someone who's doing exactly that, probably not as fast as he would like. I've just learned as well. I'm talking about the one and only Michael Rubin, an entrepreneur, philanthropist, and social justice advocate. Michael has built several multi billion dollar direct to consumer companies. Michael CEO of Fanatics, a global digital sports platform that is reimagining the fan experience across many different businesses. Michael's an advocate for criminal justice reform and the co chair of Reform Alliance, an organization that includes some of the biggest names in sports, business, and culture that's dedicated to advancing criminal justice reform and eradicating antiquated probation laws that perpetuate injustice in the United States. Michael was named Sports Business Journal Executive of the Year in twenty twenty two and has also been named to the Bleacher Report Power fifty list of most influential people in sports. Welcome to on Purpose, Michael Rubin.

I'm happy to be here. I've watched what you've done and myle what you do, and you've got such an incredible following and just huge respect for you.

I'm happy to be here. I've watched what you've done and myle what you do, and you've got such an incredible following and just huge respect for you.

Well, thank you. The feeling is very mutual. It's been amazing watching your from afar. And I've always been fascinated and drawn to people who've built incredible businesses and then used their platform for impact because growing up I didn't see a lot of that. Growing up, I either saw people build businesses or have an impact, and so when I see people doing the same, it's it's exactly the values I try and live by and I love watching it. So thank you for going down that line. But let's dive straight in. I wanted to ask you, Michael, what was you know, such a successful business person? What was your first ever job that you ever had in life?

Well, thank you. The feeling is very mutual. It's been amazing watching your from afar. And I've always been fascinated and drawn to people who've built incredible businesses and then used their platform for impact because growing up I didn't see a lot of that. Growing up, I either saw people build businesses or have an impact, and so when I see people doing the same, it's it's exactly the values I try and live by and I love watching it. So thank you for going down that line. But let's dive straight in. I wanted to ask you, Michael, what was you know, such a successful business person? What was your first ever job that you ever had in life?

So for me, I think a lot of people know the story. I was a terrible student, you know, barely met out of high school. I went to college for less than semester. As bad as the students I was, I was honestly the worst athlete, Like I was just I wasn't coordinated, I wasn't a good athlete. The one thing I was always good at was working. Like I loved business from the time I was a kid. So everything I remember about being young was working. So my first job was that I can remember. It was probably eight years old. I probably had like five different side hustles. I mean I was selling trading cards, you know, by the way, not to my friends, but to my friends' parents because they had the money. I was when it would snow in Philadelphia where I grew up, I would get five kids to do the snowshovel and I would go door to door and actually sell the snowshoveling. I was selling vegetable seeds door to door. I was making stationary and the Appletude plus and selling it. I mean, I was just like I was the real entrepreneur, Like it's what I was good as, what I like doing, And so I had so many different jobs as an eight year old. But I mean that's like when people say, you know how long you've been at it, it's crazy forty three years. I've been doing this since I've been eight years old.

So for me, I think a lot of people know the story. I was a terrible student, you know, barely met out of high school. I went to college for less than semester. As bad as the students I was, I was honestly the worst athlete, Like I was just I wasn't coordinated, I wasn't a good athlete. The one thing I was always good at was working. Like I loved business from the time I was a kid. So everything I remember about being young was working. So my first job was that I can remember. It was probably eight years old. I probably had like five different side hustles. I mean I was selling trading cards, you know, by the way, not to my friends, but to my friends' parents because they had the money. I was when it would snow in Philadelphia where I grew up, I would get five kids to do the snowshovel and I would go door to door and actually sell the snowshoveling. I was selling vegetable seeds door to door. I was making stationary and the Appletude plus and selling it. I mean, I was just like I was the real entrepreneur, Like it's what I was good as, what I like doing, And so I had so many different jobs as an eight year old. But I mean that's like when people say, you know how long you've been at it, it's crazy forty three years. I've been doing this since I've been eight years old.

Wow, And when you were doing that, was there any inspiration. Was it just you wanted money? What did you want to buy? What were you doing with that? Like excited you about it?

Wow, And when you were doing that, was there any inspiration. Was it just you wanted money? What did you want to buy? What were you doing with that? Like excited you about it?

I don't think for me, even at eight years old, it was ever about money or wanting to buy things. I think it was always about doing what you're good at. And for me, knowing that I wasn't good, like I had a lot of learning challenges. I mean as a kid, like I had every you know person to try to help me with all the things I sucked at, whether it was athletically or you know, it was just like I just I wasn't good at sports, I wasn't good at school. But business is what I was good at. So I just always gravitate to that. I think that's a good thing. Like you should always figure out how to do things that you love. You should figure out how to do things that you're good at and kind of double down on that. So that's always been my whole life.

I don't think for me, even at eight years old, it was ever about money or wanting to buy things. I think it was always about doing what you're good at. And for me, knowing that I wasn't good, like I had a lot of learning challenges. I mean as a kid, like I had every you know person to try to help me with all the things I sucked at, whether it was athletically or you know, it was just like I just I wasn't good at sports, I wasn't good at school. But business is what I was good at. So I just always gravitate to that. I think that's a good thing. Like you should always figure out how to do things that you love. You should figure out how to do things that you're good at and kind of double down on that. So that's always been my whole life.

How did you know that at eight? Because I feel my most eight year olds today obviously playing video games. Back then, they're probably watching TV, maybe they were out riding a bike, Like, how did you know that you were good at this?

How did you know that at eight? Because I feel my most eight year olds today obviously playing video games. Back then, they're probably watching TV, maybe they were out riding a bike, Like, how did you know that you were good at this?

And I think it's something for me, I was born with like I was born with that entrepreneur a hustle. I think I came out of the womb like just you know, wanting to be an entrepreneur, like just loving the hustle. And you know, to me, you know, I've been at this a long time. I work harder than I've ever worked today. I love. It's an honor to do. It's fun, it's an opportunity. Like I'm never tired, I'm never worn out, like I'm just always I just want to go.

And I think it's something for me, I was born with like I was born with that entrepreneur a hustle. I think I came out of the womb like just you know, wanting to be an entrepreneur, like just loving the hustle. And you know, to me, you know, I've been at this a long time. I work harder than I've ever worked today. I love. It's an honor to do. It's fun, it's an opportunity. Like I'm never tired, I'm never worn out, like I'm just always I just want to go.

Yeah, can it be learned? Can you teach people to hustle and grind and develop the mindset or is it born with as you are?

Yeah, can it be learned? Can you teach people to hustle and grind and develop the mindset or is it born with as you are?

So I think I was definitely born with it. That said, I do think, you know, for me, the way I learned is by being a sponge from people. So I'm always picking things up from different people. Like if you just look at the diversity of people I have around me, Like, I'm always taking so much learnings from them to you know, be better what I do, and I try to give those backs. So yeah, I think you can definitely learn a lot of the stuff just what you know, find people you respect, find people that you admire, find people that you want to be like, and then you know, take the good from them and by the way, figure out what they do that you don't like and ignore that. Like I see good and bad each person. I try to take the good and learn from the bad. And same thing with me. I've got lots of bad habits. I mean, like, I'm myself.

So I think I was definitely born with it. That said, I do think, you know, for me, the way I learned is by being a sponge from people. So I'm always picking things up from different people. Like if you just look at the diversity of people I have around me, Like, I'm always taking so much learnings from them to you know, be better what I do, and I try to give those backs. So yeah, I think you can definitely learn a lot of the stuff just what you know, find people you respect, find people that you admire, find people that you want to be like, and then you know, take the good from them and by the way, figure out what they do that you don't like and ignore that. Like I see good and bad each person. I try to take the good and learn from the bad. And same thing with me. I've got lots of bad habits. I mean, like, I'm myself.

That's right, That's all I ask for. That's all I ask for. There is no judgment here, there's no it's a safe space. I just want people to be the authentic selves and so so please continue to be yourself and what so what I love that idea of learning from people, being a human sponge. What's the most recent or most memorable thing you think you took away from someone A conversation, a moment, something you read or heard or learned. Was there anything that kind of stuck with you?

That's right, That's all I ask for. That's all I ask for. There is no judgment here, there's no it's a safe space. I just want people to be the authentic selves and so so please continue to be yourself and what so what I love that idea of learning from people, being a human sponge. What's the most recent or most memorable thing you think you took away from someone A conversation, a moment, something you read or heard or learned. Was there anything that kind of stuck with you?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, look, I'm in LA for the week. I'm doing six to ten meetings a day in my house, and you know, to the people I met with in the last two days has been through some real challenges and just watching the challenges that they've been through, I'm like, Okay, I need to be that much more careful about how I conduct myself in everything that I do. So to me, I'm always taking learnings away from people. I think if you're not like you know, you have no chance of like you know, getting better at what you do. I mean it's like life is no different than sports. You just got to keep getting better at your sport. And so to me, I keep working in everything I do.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, look, I'm in LA for the week. I'm doing six to ten meetings a day in my house, and you know, to the people I met with in the last two days has been through some real challenges and just watching the challenges that they've been through, I'm like, Okay, I need to be that much more careful about how I conduct myself in everything that I do. So to me, I'm always taking learnings away from people. I think if you're not like you know, you have no chance of like you know, getting better at what you do. I mean it's like life is no different than sports. You just got to keep getting better at your sport. And so to me, I keep working in everything I do.

Yeah, what do you think obviously now, like when you started forty three years ago at eight years old, entrepreneurship wasn't as talted as this incredible it was.

Yeah, what do you think obviously now, like when you started forty three years ago at eight years old, entrepreneurship wasn't as talted as this incredible it was.

It was actually weird, right, Like to be clear, like I was a nerd like that, I loved business, Like entrepreneurialism came cool really around technology, Like I don't think it became cool to almost from my perspective, everything was really the birth of the dot com error. Yeah, you know, kind of late nineties is when entrepreneurialism became cool. I think before that was kind of nerdy and weird. So I was definitely born before it all.

It was actually weird, right, Like to be clear, like I was a nerd like that, I loved business, Like entrepreneurialism came cool really around technology, Like I don't think it became cool to almost from my perspective, everything was really the birth of the dot com error. Yeah, you know, kind of late nineties is when entrepreneurialism became cool. I think before that was kind of nerdy and weird. So I was definitely born before it all.

Yeah, And I'd say even off to the financial crisis in like two thousand and seven eight, like that recession, which is because I grew up in the era where we still aspire to be investment bankers or consultants. So when I was at college or when I was growing up, that was seen if you were into business. My goal was to go into that world because that's what I aspired for. Whereas I think the generation off to me, the one off to me, they were like, I'm not going to go work for someone. I want to build something on my own.

Yeah, And I'd say even off to the financial crisis in like two thousand and seven eight, like that recession, which is because I grew up in the era where we still aspire to be investment bankers or consultants. So when I was at college or when I was growing up, that was seen if you were into business. My goal was to go into that world because that's what I aspired for. Whereas I think the generation off to me, the one off to me, they were like, I'm not going to go work for someone. I want to build something on my own.

I think that's amazing for me. I love. One of the things that I'm fortunate enough to do is really I think, in a lot of ways, you know, encourage entrepreneurialism. And you know, one of our biggest businesses the collectibles business, which is trading cards of my rebility, and that's all about entrepreneurs. There's so many entrepreneurs in that business. It's probably the business in a lot of ways that I actually related to all three of our businesses. But it's the business that's maybe the most relatable for me because I grew up selling trading our snate year old. But also it's all about entrepreneurialism.

I think that's amazing for me. I love. One of the things that I'm fortunate enough to do is really I think, in a lot of ways, you know, encourage entrepreneurialism. And you know, one of our biggest businesses the collectibles business, which is trading cards of my rebility, and that's all about entrepreneurs. There's so many entrepreneurs in that business. It's probably the business in a lot of ways that I actually related to all three of our businesses. But it's the business that's maybe the most relatable for me because I grew up selling trading our snate year old. But also it's all about entrepreneurialism.

Talk to me through that business because so I remember so back in London obviously where I grew up, I collected football stickers, right soccer stick Yeah, so that's what we'd have. We'd have the big you'd have the spread with all the premier league clubs, and you'd collect the little stickers, and that was a big part of collectibles. How has that industry evolved as technology has grown up? Has it stayed the same where people are still collecting cards and like top trumps and things like that.

Talk to me through that business because so I remember so back in London obviously where I grew up, I collected football stickers, right soccer stick Yeah, so that's what we'd have. We'd have the big you'd have the spread with all the premier league clubs, and you'd collect the little stickers, and that was a big part of collectibles. How has that industry evolved as technology has grown up? Has it stayed the same where people are still collecting cards and like top trumps and things like that.

Yeah, well, I'll say we got into the business about three years ago in a really significant way, and today we own Tops, which is the you know, kind of pre eminent brand in trading cards. I'd say that, you know, until our arrival in the industry little less than three years ago, I said, there hadn't been you know, a tremendous amount of innovation. There hadn't been a tremendous amount of marketing.

Yeah, well, I'll say we got into the business about three years ago in a really significant way, and today we own Tops, which is the you know, kind of pre eminent brand in trading cards. I'd say that, you know, until our arrival in the industry little less than three years ago, I said, there hadn't been you know, a tremendous amount of innovation. There hadn't been a tremendous amount of marketing.

You know.

You know.

We kind of looked at the business said wow, like this is such an incredible collector base, such an incredible fan base, yet it hasn't changed for like decades. Here and you go to a you know, the big trading card show where there's more than one hundred thousand people that come to Chicago this past summer. It's called the National Trading Card Show. Yeah, it looks like something from only thirty forty years ago. So for us, that was just that just meant opportunity meant if you actually make innovative products, you actually really market these products, you build a better consumer experience and bring people forward into twenty twenty three. Like what an opportunity. So for me, like, we do that in all of our business, Like I love like we love finding great opportunities, big challenges and kind of being unrelenting about going after them.

We kind of looked at the business said wow, like this is such an incredible collector base, such an incredible fan base, yet it hasn't changed for like decades. Here and you go to a you know, the big trading card show where there's more than one hundred thousand people that come to Chicago this past summer. It's called the National Trading Card Show. Yeah, it looks like something from only thirty forty years ago. So for us, that was just that just meant opportunity meant if you actually make innovative products, you actually really market these products, you build a better consumer experience and bring people forward into twenty twenty three. Like what an opportunity. So for me, like, we do that in all of our business, Like I love like we love finding great opportunities, big challenges and kind of being unrelenting about going after them.

Yeah, how has that changed? How has that practically changed? Like people still buying cards and trading.

Yeah, how has that changed? How has that practically changed? Like people still buying cards and trading.

Physical cards are the biggest part of business. It's in a lot of way, it's very similar to art. But I can tell you, like just as one quick example this year, you know, our team came in and actually the CEO of our business, Mike Mahon, said, Hey, I got a great idea. Every time a player debuts for the first time, I want to put a patch on their jersey and then as soon as they get done the game, I'm want to put that patch off and put it in a one on one trading card so you have the card from the first So think about for us, you know, maybe I grew up in the Michael Jordan or had I had you know, Michael Jordan or yeah, if I had Michael Jordan or Kobe's first one on one cards, Yeah, that could be the most valuable keeps that I could ever have. And so you know that innovation, Like for us, it was really simple, like, yeah, why would you not want to put a patch on someone's jersey sticking into a car to make this a one on one card? But no one did that until we created it. And by the way, it's already live. We came up with the idea this past December. It was it was live in April with all baseball players. Is going to be three to four hundred baseball player's debut this year, you know, with this debut patch that we put into a one on one card. So that's just like one of dozens of examples of innovations because you have to be aggressive, like we have to be great entrepreneurs, we have to push whatever we do.

Physical cards are the biggest part of business. It's in a lot of way, it's very similar to art. But I can tell you, like just as one quick example this year, you know, our team came in and actually the CEO of our business, Mike Mahon, said, Hey, I got a great idea. Every time a player debuts for the first time, I want to put a patch on their jersey and then as soon as they get done the game, I'm want to put that patch off and put it in a one on one trading card so you have the card from the first So think about for us, you know, maybe I grew up in the Michael Jordan or had I had you know, Michael Jordan or yeah, if I had Michael Jordan or Kobe's first one on one cards, Yeah, that could be the most valuable keeps that I could ever have. And so you know that innovation, Like for us, it was really simple, like, yeah, why would you not want to put a patch on someone's jersey sticking into a car to make this a one on one card? But no one did that until we created it. And by the way, it's already live. We came up with the idea this past December. It was it was live in April with all baseball players. Is going to be three to four hundred baseball player's debut this year, you know, with this debut patch that we put into a one on one card. So that's just like one of dozens of examples of innovations because you have to be aggressive, like we have to be great entrepreneurs, we have to push whatever we do.

Yeah. Now, what I love about that though, for everyone who's listening is I think we're stuck in this world now that believes that all innovation has to be digital or technological or virtual or some sort of you know AI, whereas this is like the most tangible physical change, but it's still so valuable because it's what people want.

Yeah. Now, what I love about that though, for everyone who's listening is I think we're stuck in this world now that believes that all innovation has to be digital or technological or virtual or some sort of you know AI, whereas this is like the most tangible physical change, but it's still so valuable because it's what people want.

Look, we're three business there. First business where we started is what we call fin ex Commerce. That's our merchandise business. We own Lids, the hat retailer. We own Mitchell Nas, We own Fanatics, which operates you know, obviously all of the different league you know, the NFL shop, then BA store, and we sell you know, more than six billion hours of mostly fan apparel and headwear. Okay about you know, you know, more than one hundred million unit sub merchandise a year. That's a very physical business. Okay, but AI is helping us to do things more effectively in the collectible's business. AI is going to help us to be more effective. And then our third business is the online sports better than I gaming business. So you know, for me, we still do a lot of physical things, but there's so many things in the digital world that help us to be better.

Look, we're three business there. First business where we started is what we call fin ex Commerce. That's our merchandise business. We own Lids, the hat retailer. We own Mitchell Nas, We own Fanatics, which operates you know, obviously all of the different league you know, the NFL shop, then BA store, and we sell you know, more than six billion hours of mostly fan apparel and headwear. Okay about you know, you know, more than one hundred million unit sub merchandise a year. That's a very physical business. Okay, but AI is helping us to do things more effectively in the collectible's business. AI is going to help us to be more effective. And then our third business is the online sports better than I gaming business. So you know, for me, we still do a lot of physical things, but there's so many things in the digital world that help us to be better.

Yeah. No, but I love that collaboration and thinking about it that way because sometimes the greatest value to someone is a physical change. But you're learning that through the AI.

Yeah. No, but I love that collaboration and thinking about it that way because sometimes the greatest value to someone is a physical change. But you're learning that through the AI.

I still want to wear my Kobe jersey, Yeah exactly, exactly this, I want my Bronz card.

I still want to wear my Kobe jersey, Yeah exactly, exactly this, I want my Bronz card.

Yeah, that's the same thing I'm still buying. I support Manchester United, That's that's my soccer team, and I'm still buying you know, soccer jerseys every single year.

Yeah, that's the same thing I'm still buying. I support Manchester United, That's that's my soccer team, and I'm still buying you know, soccer jerseys every single year.

We appreciate that because that's a fanatics next store.

We appreciate that because that's a fanatics next store.

Even though I absolutely even though we absolutely suck right now, but it's you know, but.

Even though I absolutely even though we absolutely suck right now, but it's you know, but.

That's what's sports fans about it. Sometimes you great years and you get you're getting those championships, and other times you're gonna suck and you gotta stay with your feel the pain.

That's what's sports fans about it. Sometimes you great years and you get you're getting those championships, and other times you're gonna suck and you gotta stay with your feel the pain.

I'm a real fan now. I grew up as a glue hunter because we just want everything. And now I'm going through real fandom of ten.

I'm a real fan now. I grew up as a glue hunter because we just want everything. And now I'm going through real fandom of ten.

We're gonna test you now, We're gonna see what you're made of. But you really committed to man United here.

We're gonna test you now, We're gonna see what you're made of. But you really committed to man United here.

Yeah, that's that's I'm being tested right now, being perfect. But we were talking about people not being entrepreneurship not being tired when you started. When you look at it today, now it's become the cool, sexy, interesting, fascinating thing for people to want to try. It's not necessarily things people are good at like you said you were, It's not necessarily a skill that we honor or give it the kudosk that it deserves. What are the mistakes people are making when they think about being an entrepreneur today?

Yeah, that's that's I'm being tested right now, being perfect. But we were talking about people not being entrepreneurship not being tired when you started. When you look at it today, now it's become the cool, sexy, interesting, fascinating thing for people to want to try. It's not necessarily things people are good at like you said you were, It's not necessarily a skill that we honor or give it the kudosk that it deserves. What are the mistakes people are making when they think about being an entrepreneur today?

Well, first of all, entrepreneurialism isn't for everybody. But if you think it's for yourself, you better go out there and try it and put your best foot forward. For me, Look, the biggest mistakes I see people make in building a business are kind of a couple of common themes. One is, first you have like are you even going to take the app bat? So many people tell me I've got this great idea, but like I don't want to hear about but like, let's go for it. Let's see if you have an idea you want to do something.

Well, first of all, entrepreneurialism isn't for everybody. But if you think it's for yourself, you better go out there and try it and put your best foot forward. For me, Look, the biggest mistakes I see people make in building a business are kind of a couple of common themes. One is, first you have like are you even going to take the app bat? So many people tell me I've got this great idea, but like I don't want to hear about but like, let's go for it. Let's see if you have an idea you want to do something.

You know.

You know.

I love the story you were just telling me before we went on here that you came over here and you know, you work one place for six months and then you're like, I want to go out and do this, and you went out and did it. Like part of being an entrepreneurs to have the courage to fail, Like you just have to go out there and try it. And by the way, when you fail, which many times you will, you're dont learn from that failure. You're going to grow from that failure. You think the best. You talked about Kobe being your favorite, you know athlete, Well, guess what, how many times did he fail? And then he got better and he pushed through it. And so that's what being an entrepreneur is. So from my perspective, it's really all about first and foremost. If you have something you want to do, if you believe in it, go for it. Don't worry about whether you succeed or not. Go out and take the swing. And if guess what if you strike out, if you fail, just go back again. And I know some people going to say, oh, well, he's really successful now, so it's easy to say, but I gotta tell you something. I've like, I've seen death in its eyes. You know, I've Almo has gone bankrupt multiple times. You know, I've had epic failures and every one of those led me to be better than what I do. So that's my first thing. Second thing I'd say is you need great people around you, Like whether it's great people you're learning from that you want to be a sponge from, whether it's you build a great team to do what you do, like I know for fanatics script eighteen thousand people that get up and go to bed obsessed with how do we improve the fan experience each day? But like I collect and work with the best people on the planet. Like, if you don't work with great people, you will fail. Like you can't win a championship if you don't have great talent, but that talent also works, needs to work together. And then the last thing, and this will sound corny, but like, have fun in what you do. Like I love what I do. I have the greatest job of the planet. I get to wake up, you know, work eighteen hours a day, go to bed thinking about you know what's next. I dream about my work nearly every day. Like I'm having work dreams all the time because I'm obsessed with what I'm doing. It's like it's fun. It's like I should pinch myself. It's so awesome what I get to do.

I love the story you were just telling me before we went on here that you came over here and you know, you work one place for six months and then you're like, I want to go out and do this, and you went out and did it. Like part of being an entrepreneurs to have the courage to fail, Like you just have to go out there and try it. And by the way, when you fail, which many times you will, you're dont learn from that failure. You're going to grow from that failure. You think the best. You talked about Kobe being your favorite, you know athlete, Well, guess what, how many times did he fail? And then he got better and he pushed through it. And so that's what being an entrepreneur is. So from my perspective, it's really all about first and foremost. If you have something you want to do, if you believe in it, go for it. Don't worry about whether you succeed or not. Go out and take the swing. And if guess what if you strike out, if you fail, just go back again. And I know some people going to say, oh, well, he's really successful now, so it's easy to say, but I gotta tell you something. I've like, I've seen death in its eyes. You know, I've Almo has gone bankrupt multiple times. You know, I've had epic failures and every one of those led me to be better than what I do. So that's my first thing. Second thing I'd say is you need great people around you, Like whether it's great people you're learning from that you want to be a sponge from, whether it's you build a great team to do what you do, like I know for fanatics script eighteen thousand people that get up and go to bed obsessed with how do we improve the fan experience each day? But like I collect and work with the best people on the planet. Like, if you don't work with great people, you will fail. Like you can't win a championship if you don't have great talent, but that talent also works, needs to work together. And then the last thing, and this will sound corny, but like, have fun in what you do. Like I love what I do. I have the greatest job of the planet. I get to wake up, you know, work eighteen hours a day, go to bed thinking about you know what's next. I dream about my work nearly every day. Like I'm having work dreams all the time because I'm obsessed with what I'm doing. It's like it's fun. It's like I should pinch myself. It's so awesome what I get to do.

Yeah, absolutely, no, I love hearing that. And I think, you know what's fascinating to me as well with being an entrepreneur. You know, my story was very different to finding my way into entrepreneurship. I grew up thinking I had to have a steady job because that's how I was raised by good Indian immigrant parents who made me academically ASTU and so I was a straight A student, did first class at you like I was always good at that. And then I got into a job afterwards, after my own detour, and when I finally got into a job, I was just like, this doesn't feel right, Like this doesn't feel like this is going to use my skills to the best of my ability. This doesn't feel like I'm going to propel and do well and become my best version of myself. It wasn't about money or what I thought I could win at. It was I just don't feel this is gonna complete me or make me feel like I'm winning in the way that I can.

Yeah, absolutely, no, I love hearing that. And I think, you know what's fascinating to me as well with being an entrepreneur. You know, my story was very different to finding my way into entrepreneurship. I grew up thinking I had to have a steady job because that's how I was raised by good Indian immigrant parents who made me academically ASTU and so I was a straight A student, did first class at you like I was always good at that. And then I got into a job afterwards, after my own detour, and when I finally got into a job, I was just like, this doesn't feel right, Like this doesn't feel like this is going to use my skills to the best of my ability. This doesn't feel like I'm going to propel and do well and become my best version of myself. It wasn't about money or what I thought I could win at. It was I just don't feel this is gonna complete me or make me feel like I'm winning in the way that I can.

Listen, the most important thing is enjoying what you do every day. And I'm muchay saying I know a lot of people that have been really successful financially and they're miserable, you know what. They don't love what they do every day. They're not happy. Like for me, I don't think about financial success. I think about like just loving what I'm doing now. Financial success can tell you are you winning losing? That's your report card, that's the scoreboard. Right. Good financial results means you're winning. Bad financial results means you're not winning in the current moment. But for me, like I just want to love what I do every day, I can agree with you more.

Listen, the most important thing is enjoying what you do every day. And I'm muchay saying I know a lot of people that have been really successful financially and they're miserable, you know what. They don't love what they do every day. They're not happy. Like for me, I don't think about financial success. I think about like just loving what I'm doing now. Financial success can tell you are you winning losing? That's your report card, that's the scoreboard. Right. Good financial results means you're winning. Bad financial results means you're not winning in the current moment. But for me, like I just want to love what I do every day, I can agree with you more.

I want to wake up and do what I love, which is why I do this, because I get to sit down with fascinating people, pick people's minds.

I want to wake up and do what I love, which is why I do this, because I get to sit down with fascinating people, pick people's minds.

And then we each learn from each other.

And then we each learn from each other.

Absolutely, absolutely, And by the way.

Absolutely, absolutely, And by the way.

I guarantee you I'll learn, I'll leave you today I haven't picked up some things from you, and you'll leave from here. That's the way it works. That's the way. Like we should all be students of each other.

I guarantee you I'll learn, I'll leave you today I haven't picked up some things from you, and you'll leave from here. That's the way it works. That's the way. Like we should all be students of each other.

Yeah. Absolutely, Who's who's the randommest person you've learned from? I wonder, like, who's the most curious, random, intriguing person that we wouldn't expect for you to learn from, Like not like a business mogul or you know, someone like that, but someone you're like, you know what that person I didn't expect to learn from them, but I did. Is there someone like that comes to mind?

Yeah. Absolutely, Who's who's the randommest person you've learned from? I wonder, like, who's the most curious, random, intriguing person that we wouldn't expect for you to learn from, Like not like a business mogul or you know, someone like that, but someone you're like, you know what that person I didn't expect to learn from them, but I did. Is there someone like that comes to mind?

I could give you a thousands examples. I mean, I could tell you when I used to be part of the ownership group of the Philadelphia Sixers. I'd walk through the arena, and I would ask lots of arena workers what's going on here today? You know what's working, what's not working? Like, you know, you can pick up things from everybody. I could. I could walk through the street, look at what someone's wearing and say, hey, where'd you buy that? Is that a good? Do you like that? You're not like that? Like I'm always asking questions, so you know, for me, I mean that's pretty random if you just walk up in the street and ask somebody, you know, where'd you buy that? Why did you buy it? Do you love that? So I'm always picking things up. I'm watching the way trends are changing with people. I'm probably the most unique thing about me is the diversity of friends that I have, And I'm learning from the people around me every single day.

I could give you a thousands examples. I mean, I could tell you when I used to be part of the ownership group of the Philadelphia Sixers. I'd walk through the arena, and I would ask lots of arena workers what's going on here today? You know what's working, what's not working? Like, you know, you can pick up things from everybody. I could. I could walk through the street, look at what someone's wearing and say, hey, where'd you buy that? Is that a good? Do you like that? You're not like that? Like I'm always asking questions, so you know, for me, I mean that's pretty random if you just walk up in the street and ask somebody, you know, where'd you buy that? Why did you buy it? Do you love that? So I'm always picking things up. I'm watching the way trends are changing with people. I'm probably the most unique thing about me is the diversity of friends that I have, And I'm learning from the people around me every single day.

Yeah, I think that's the only way you understand the pulse of human behavior. Right. It's like asking questions watching patents. I think patent watching is an ability, whether it's an algorithm, whether it's the stock market, whether it's you know, crypto or whatever it is. For people, watching patents is such an unbelievable skill. Would you say that's a skill that you've honed and developed and built well.

Yeah, I think that's the only way you understand the pulse of human behavior. Right. It's like asking questions watching patents. I think patent watching is an ability, whether it's an algorithm, whether it's the stock market, whether it's you know, crypto or whatever it is. For people, watching patents is such an unbelievable skill. Would you say that's a skill that you've honed and developed and built well.

I think it's a really important skill in business because I think it's very predictive of the future. Okay, So the reality is when someone comes in and I'm interviewing a top executive for a role one of our businesses, and they could seem great, and then I'm going to go out and I'm never going to ask anybody for reference. Ever. I've never asked somebody, hey, can you tell me who to call?

I think it's a really important skill in business because I think it's very predictive of the future. Okay, So the reality is when someone comes in and I'm interviewing a top executive for a role one of our businesses, and they could seem great, and then I'm going to go out and I'm never going to ask anybody for reference. Ever. I've never asked somebody, hey, can you tell me who to call?

It?

It?

Like, that's the you ask me for reference to myself. I call each other's people and say, hey, I gave you a reference. Make sure you say great things about me. Right. So the reality is I'll interview somebody, the first thing I do is if I like them. As soon as they leave, I go out and I start calling people that I knew we had in common to recognize patterns. Okay, because to me, fifty percents to interview and fifty percent is what I learned behind the scenes. And that's probably the more important fifty percent because someone can blow me away and then you know, you'll find out one minute that person sucks, that person people don't like working with them, or you can find out that person was a little bit understated, but they are beasts. You know, they've got huge followership, they're super smart, they've got an unrelenting work ethic. So to me, pattern recognition is everything I use in everything that I do. By the way, I use pattern recognition when I go play blackjack with my friends. You know, there's three types of cards you're gonna get cars. You're either going to be you know, you're either streaking hot, you're streaking cold, or you're kind of in between. And you know, when you're cold, you should not do what sometimes I'll do if I'm misbehaved, which is be aggressive when you're cold, because you got a pattern of going on. So you gotta recognize patterns whatever you do.

Like, that's the you ask me for reference to myself. I call each other's people and say, hey, I gave you a reference. Make sure you say great things about me. Right. So the reality is I'll interview somebody, the first thing I do is if I like them. As soon as they leave, I go out and I start calling people that I knew we had in common to recognize patterns. Okay, because to me, fifty percents to interview and fifty percent is what I learned behind the scenes. And that's probably the more important fifty percent because someone can blow me away and then you know, you'll find out one minute that person sucks, that person people don't like working with them, or you can find out that person was a little bit understated, but they are beasts. You know, they've got huge followership, they're super smart, they've got an unrelenting work ethic. So to me, pattern recognition is everything I use in everything that I do. By the way, I use pattern recognition when I go play blackjack with my friends. You know, there's three types of cards you're gonna get cars. You're either going to be you know, you're either streaking hot, you're streaking cold, or you're kind of in between. And you know, when you're cold, you should not do what sometimes I'll do if I'm misbehaved, which is be aggressive when you're cold, because you got a pattern of going on. So you gotta recognize patterns whatever you do.

I find it fascinating how super powerful entrepreneurs higher and fire and recruit and you know, reward and retain people. Well, what have you found when you're interviewing someone? I feel like you must have interviewed so many people over the years for huge positions, small positions. In the beginning, what are you looking for and how are you finding out? Apart from the second part, which I love calling out people that you have in common, what are you asking? What are you looking for and how are you making sure you find it in that very date like format.

I find it fascinating how super powerful entrepreneurs higher and fire and recruit and you know, reward and retain people. Well, what have you found when you're interviewing someone? I feel like you must have interviewed so many people over the years for huge positions, small positions. In the beginning, what are you looking for and how are you finding out? Apart from the second part, which I love calling out people that you have in common, what are you asking? What are you looking for and how are you making sure you find it in that very date like format.

So let me say first of all, and this will I think shock you. I still probably spend ten to twenty percent of a seventy to ninety hour work week interviewing people. Okay, So I am a beast on finding great talent within our companies because to me, you can't win without great talent. So it is probably the thing or one of the things that I spend the most time one is the quest for incredible talent. I'm looking for first, does someone have the subject matter expertise and the intellect to be successful in what we want them to do? And then two do they have the leadership skills? Because generally I'm interviewing people that are either going to work for me or someone who's gonna work for someone who I work with. So let's say the top fifty to one hundred people within our our eighteen thousand people. So I'm looking for people that are going to be real leaders, that are gonna, you know, share the same values that we share. I'm looking for people that can be with us for a long period of time, Like I don't want people that want to come in and be with us for three years. I want people that want to, like I like, people want to be with us and build their careers with us for maybe their entire life, you know. We want people that are just going to be you know, and also people that are going to like just they're gonna figure how to win, They're gonna put it on the shoulders, They're gonna be unrelenting, Like that's my personality. Like, there are so many things that I should not have succeeded at, but I have because I won't quit, okay, and so so I think those are some of the things that I just rambled to you that I care about.

So let me say first of all, and this will I think shock you. I still probably spend ten to twenty percent of a seventy to ninety hour work week interviewing people. Okay, So I am a beast on finding great talent within our companies because to me, you can't win without great talent. So it is probably the thing or one of the things that I spend the most time one is the quest for incredible talent. I'm looking for first, does someone have the subject matter expertise and the intellect to be successful in what we want them to do? And then two do they have the leadership skills? Because generally I'm interviewing people that are either going to work for me or someone who's gonna work for someone who I work with. So let's say the top fifty to one hundred people within our our eighteen thousand people. So I'm looking for people that are going to be real leaders, that are gonna, you know, share the same values that we share. I'm looking for people that can be with us for a long period of time, Like I don't want people that want to come in and be with us for three years. I want people that want to, like I like, people want to be with us and build their careers with us for maybe their entire life, you know. We want people that are just going to be you know, and also people that are going to like just they're gonna figure how to win, They're gonna put it on the shoulders, They're gonna be unrelenting, Like that's my personality. Like, there are so many things that I should not have succeeded at, but I have because I won't quit, okay, and so so I think those are some of the things that I just rambled to you that I care about.

No, no, no, I love those And I guess the thing about not quitting is really interesting, right, because you've got this unrelenting You can see it in the way you speak and your eyes, Like I've just spent a few moments with you, we've never met before today, and I can fully see that it is just at the core of who you are. And you probably find that you can push people and they may not be able to go as far every time because they may not have that same energy in them. So how have you found that balance of like seeing someone who you know has the potential. You know, they have the skills, but it's almost like they're like Michael, I already went seven times and you're like, yeah, dude, we're gonna go seventeen because I know at seventeen we're gonna get there.

No, no, no, I love those And I guess the thing about not quitting is really interesting, right, because you've got this unrelenting You can see it in the way you speak and your eyes, Like I've just spent a few moments with you, we've never met before today, and I can fully see that it is just at the core of who you are. And you probably find that you can push people and they may not be able to go as far every time because they may not have that same energy in them. So how have you found that balance of like seeing someone who you know has the potential. You know, they have the skills, but it's almost like they're like Michael, I already went seven times and you're like, yeah, dude, we're gonna go seventeen because I know at seventeen we're gonna get there.

Yeah. I think the people that are in my real inner circle, you know, I have six key executives that I work with day in and day out. The people that run my three businesses that the online sports betting and I gaming business, the commerce business which is merchandise, and the collectible's business which is trading cards and memobilia. These businesses, and then my three corporate executives, like they have that same mentality. I wouldn't want to work with anyone that didn't have that mentality of like, you know, because they're saying the culture for the entire eighteen thousand you know, employees at Fanatics and so to me, people don't share our core values. You know, they don't believe in what we believe in. This is probably not gonna be a right fit. They could be a great human being, a great individual, just not be right for us.

Yeah. I think the people that are in my real inner circle, you know, I have six key executives that I work with day in and day out. The people that run my three businesses that the online sports betting and I gaming business, the commerce business which is merchandise, and the collectible's business which is trading cards and memobilia. These businesses, and then my three corporate executives, like they have that same mentality. I wouldn't want to work with anyone that didn't have that mentality of like, you know, because they're saying the culture for the entire eighteen thousand you know, employees at Fanatics and so to me, people don't share our core values. You know, they don't believe in what we believe in. This is probably not gonna be a right fit. They could be a great human being, a great individual, just not be right for us.

Do you ever take a break? Have you ever taken a break?

Do you ever take a break? Have you ever taken a break?

To me, I don't understand work life balance. It's just it's not who I am. So I'm not gonna apologize for it. And I know I sound like if people could listen to say, like this guy's feel a little bit deranged, But I am who I am. I know, like I know what I'm good at and I know what I like doing.

To me, I don't understand work life balance. It's just it's not who I am. So I'm not gonna apologize for it. And I know I sound like if people could listen to say, like this guy's feel a little bit deranged, But I am who I am. I know, like I know what I'm good at and I know what I like doing.

I mean, it made sure you, but I fully relate to it, like to me, it's I you know, I think people I appreciate it.

I mean, it made sure you, but I fully relate to it, like to me, it's I you know, I think people I appreciate it.

I'm trying to get more people to, you know, try to get more people to not look at me like I'm.

I'm trying to get more people to, you know, try to get more people to not look at me like I'm.

Crazy, and I would agree with I feel exactly the same way. Like this week, and this is my average normal week. I have morning hikes where I'm out with people that I work with, but I love them and I enjoy their company. They're not people I have to work with that people I enjoy working with. So I'm having a hike meeting in the morning, which is you know, seven thirty am. Then I'm at work, whether I'm doing this or whatever I'm up to when I'm recording meditation, so sometimes i'm alone in a studio and sometimes I'm with people. And then I have meetings and then I've been having dinner meetings too, and I love it. I won't have it any other way. I've had the best interactions. I'm getting to know the best people. I know their families. I know they're getting to know their kids, their spouses, whatever it is. And to me, it's like, this is what I want life to be. I actually don't look at life as work and life like I don't have that disconnect. And I actually think that when you look at life as a disconnect, that's when you think you're taking away from the other.

Crazy, and I would agree with I feel exactly the same way. Like this week, and this is my average normal week. I have morning hikes where I'm out with people that I work with, but I love them and I enjoy their company. They're not people I have to work with that people I enjoy working with. So I'm having a hike meeting in the morning, which is you know, seven thirty am. Then I'm at work, whether I'm doing this or whatever I'm up to when I'm recording meditation, so sometimes i'm alone in a studio and sometimes I'm with people. And then I have meetings and then I've been having dinner meetings too, and I love it. I won't have it any other way. I've had the best interactions. I'm getting to know the best people. I know their families. I know they're getting to know their kids, their spouses, whatever it is. And to me, it's like, this is what I want life to be. I actually don't look at life as work and life like I don't have that disconnect. And I actually think that when you look at life as a disconnect, that's when you think you're taking away from the other.

And I also peach do what you love to do. Yeah, it almost breaks those barriers down totally.

And I also peach do what you love to do. Yeah, it almost breaks those barriers down totally.

Yeah. No, So I'm actually more on your side than people may think. I'm a big fan of having my daily routines and habits that make me the best version of myself, Like obviously meditation, working out. There are certain non negotiables. Are there things in your day that you do that are your routines that may not be those things, but things that you're like, you know, this one thing that I do per day, this makes me feel great.

Yeah. No, So I'm actually more on your side than people may think. I'm a big fan of having my daily routines and habits that make me the best version of myself, Like obviously meditation, working out. There are certain non negotiables. Are there things in your day that you do that are your routines that may not be those things, but things that you're like, you know, this one thing that I do per day, this makes me feel great.

It's probably centered around work. If I'm going to be out, that's cool it with you. I was always pleasantly plump until my journal came out. So now that my journals came out, I've gone from two ten to once six. I'd say working out is more important to me. You know, when you're two ten, it's harder to work out. When you're one hundred and sixties, much easier to work out. So you live here in the top of Runion, and you know for me, you know, kind of hiking to the top of Runion. You know, I've done that once already this week. We're gonna do it again tomorrow. Like I love doing it, like it's a it's a blast for me. Working out is actually something that is becoming good for me because it's the one thing that lets me get a little bit of a mental break. Putting my phone down sometimes I can be so addicted to my phone. It's just like I just need like sometimes at dinner when you know my family has dinner, just like put my phone down for twenty minutes. That's a good thing. So I'd say things that have helped me of late have been you know, getting those three to four workouts in per week, because it does give me some mental clarity. And I'd say putting my phone down twenty or thirty minutes a day when I'm just not going to look at it and say, okay, like give me a mental break, because I think you could just become so obsessed that it is almost it's bad for you, and then you become less effective. Probably the biggest routine I have of we say, like, let's keep it real. It's going to be the people that I work close with. It's talking to them all the time. I always just like peeling the lighters back on what we're doing. So, like any of my top leaders, I'm on the phone with on zooms with meeting with in person all the time because that's the way we're just like building the best business.

It's probably centered around work. If I'm going to be out, that's cool it with you. I was always pleasantly plump until my journal came out. So now that my journals came out, I've gone from two ten to once six. I'd say working out is more important to me. You know, when you're two ten, it's harder to work out. When you're one hundred and sixties, much easier to work out. So you live here in the top of Runion, and you know for me, you know, kind of hiking to the top of Runion. You know, I've done that once already this week. We're gonna do it again tomorrow. Like I love doing it, like it's a it's a blast for me. Working out is actually something that is becoming good for me because it's the one thing that lets me get a little bit of a mental break. Putting my phone down sometimes I can be so addicted to my phone. It's just like I just need like sometimes at dinner when you know my family has dinner, just like put my phone down for twenty minutes. That's a good thing. So I'd say things that have helped me of late have been you know, getting those three to four workouts in per week, because it does give me some mental clarity. And I'd say putting my phone down twenty or thirty minutes a day when I'm just not going to look at it and say, okay, like give me a mental break, because I think you could just become so obsessed that it is almost it's bad for you, and then you become less effective. Probably the biggest routine I have of we say, like, let's keep it real. It's going to be the people that I work close with. It's talking to them all the time. I always just like peeling the lighters back on what we're doing. So, like any of my top leaders, I'm on the phone with on zooms with meeting with in person all the time because that's the way we're just like building the best business.

Yeah. Absolutely, and I do believe that it's what it takes for the level of success that you've achieved. I wonder, you know, if you if you google your net worth it says eleven billion. It could be more. Probably is how do you define how much you're worth?

Yeah. Absolutely, and I do believe that it's what it takes for the level of success that you've achieved. I wonder, you know, if you if you google your net worth it says eleven billion. It could be more. Probably is how do you define how much you're worth?

I don't I'll tell you a story. I probably shouldn't say. God, this is blowing somebody. I should blowup it. But like Forbes reached out and they said, hey, we want to put you on the cover of Forbes for the Forbes four hundred. I'm like, no, I don't want to be known for my net worth. I want to be known for building a great company. By the way, there's so many things with a company that we suck at that we need to be better at, Like I want to be Like the way I look at it is I'm a big startup, and I want to make sure that I'm always fighting to be better in everything we do and everything we do. I want to build what we make better for the fan, and we have so much to do to accomplish that. So I don't want to be known about money. I don't want to be known. I want to be known about making the world a better place, for making my company better. Those are, honestly, you know, the two things I'm maniacally focused on.

I don't I'll tell you a story. I probably shouldn't say. God, this is blowing somebody. I should blowup it. But like Forbes reached out and they said, hey, we want to put you on the cover of Forbes for the Forbes four hundred. I'm like, no, I don't want to be known for my net worth. I want to be known for building a great company. By the way, there's so many things with a company that we suck at that we need to be better at, Like I want to be Like the way I look at it is I'm a big startup, and I want to make sure that I'm always fighting to be better in everything we do and everything we do. I want to build what we make better for the fan, and we have so much to do to accomplish that. So I don't want to be known about money. I don't want to be known. I want to be known about making the world a better place, for making my company better. Those are, honestly, you know, the two things I'm maniacally focused on.

I believe it. I believe it, I genuinely do.

I believe it. I believe it, I genuinely do.

And I, by the way, who can Like I'm not in a competition for like it's irrelevant, Like my life is not changing financially based on anything that happens going forward. You know, I'm fortunate that I'm in a nice position today. So like, to me, the thing that gets me most exciting is winning in business, because that's my sport. That's what I'm good at. And so I look at each business and I look at not all the things we do right, I look at all the things we do wrong and all the things we can be better at. And so I'm always saying, how can we improve in everything we do? Because guess what, there are a lot of things we need to be a lot better at. And that's what I'm focused on. And then, you know, upfront you talked about kind of giving back is interesting. I never ever cared about making a difference in the world, and so I had an event in twenty seventeen that did change my perspective. Before that, I would just always write checks. You came and said, hey, I'm doing this. Hey, let me give you a check to shut you up as quickly as I could because I didn't care, just want to focus on work. And then my eyes got open, which is what people say, like, hey, should I be behind this that? I said, do what's all that? To do what's real? And you know, for me, that's kind of how my life is kind of you know, evolved.

And I, by the way, who can Like I'm not in a competition for like it's irrelevant, Like my life is not changing financially based on anything that happens going forward. You know, I'm fortunate that I'm in a nice position today. So like, to me, the thing that gets me most exciting is winning in business, because that's my sport. That's what I'm good at. And so I look at each business and I look at not all the things we do right, I look at all the things we do wrong and all the things we can be better at. And so I'm always saying, how can we improve in everything we do? Because guess what, there are a lot of things we need to be a lot better at. And that's what I'm focused on. And then, you know, upfront you talked about kind of giving back is interesting. I never ever cared about making a difference in the world, and so I had an event in twenty seventeen that did change my perspective. Before that, I would just always write checks. You came and said, hey, I'm doing this. Hey, let me give you a check to shut you up as quickly as I could because I didn't care, just want to focus on work. And then my eyes got open, which is what people say, like, hey, should I be behind this that? I said, do what's all that? To do what's real? And you know, for me, that's kind of how my life is kind of you know, evolved.

Yeah, And why was it I believe it was Meet Miller introduced you to criminal justice.

Yeah, And why was it I believe it was Meet Miller introduced you to criminal justice.

Well, it wasn't. I mean, everyone knows the story at this point, you know, you know, meet God, you know, sent to prison for two to four years for popping a wheel on a motorcycle.

Well, it wasn't. I mean, everyone knows the story at this point, you know, you know, meet God, you know, sent to prison for two to four years for popping a wheel on a motorcycle.

He had.

He had.

The smartest thing he did for both of us was say, hey, can you come to court with me that day? I want you see what happens when a black person goes to court. I didn't, like even understand what he was saying. And then, you know, I watched him get sent to prison for two to four years for not committing a crime for popping a wheel on a motorcycle. Like that was the most uncomfortable thing that's ever happened to my body, because it was like, I'm used to being in control. I'm a strong business leader. I'm used to leading, and now I had a judge who sent him to prison for two to four years for not committing a crime for popping a wheel and a motorcycle. And it was like the most out of body experience I ever had. And so once he ultimately got out of prison and we started the reform alliance, you know, for me me, you know, I learned a really valuable lesson because a lot of people told me, don't get involved with this. Don't get involved with him. You're gonna hurt your business, You're gonna hurt the Sixers. And I just went with my instincts, which is like this my brother and like he needs help him. By the way, Jay Z and desra Press from Rock Nation stepped up in a huge way, like you know it. It was kind of us collectively. But like I've had a couple experiences in the last four or five years where we've done things with people told us would be bad for business, bad for us, and we didn't care. We do what we thought was the right thing, and you always get paid back in karma. Like that is something I've learned in the last five years, probably the biggest thing I've learned in the last five years. You know, don't worry about what people tell you. It's going to be the right actime you do what you think is right. If you do what's right, you know it generally works out.

The smartest thing he did for both of us was say, hey, can you come to court with me that day? I want you see what happens when a black person goes to court. I didn't, like even understand what he was saying. And then, you know, I watched him get sent to prison for two to four years for not committing a crime for popping a wheel on a motorcycle. Like that was the most uncomfortable thing that's ever happened to my body, because it was like, I'm used to being in control. I'm a strong business leader. I'm used to leading, and now I had a judge who sent him to prison for two to four years for not committing a crime for popping a wheel and a motorcycle. And it was like the most out of body experience I ever had. And so once he ultimately got out of prison and we started the reform alliance, you know, for me me, you know, I learned a really valuable lesson because a lot of people told me, don't get involved with this. Don't get involved with him. You're gonna hurt your business, You're gonna hurt the Sixers. And I just went with my instincts, which is like this my brother and like he needs help him. By the way, Jay Z and desra Press from Rock Nation stepped up in a huge way, like you know it. It was kind of us collectively. But like I've had a couple experiences in the last four or five years where we've done things with people told us would be bad for business, bad for us, and we didn't care. We do what we thought was the right thing, and you always get paid back in karma. Like that is something I've learned in the last five years, probably the biggest thing I've learned in the last five years. You know, don't worry about what people tell you. It's going to be the right actime you do what you think is right. If you do what's right, you know it generally works out.

Yeah. No, And I'm glad you've repeated that story. There may be some of alreadyence who may or may not be away, so thank you for sharing that. But and I wanted them to hear it from you because it is it's so interesting when something becomes so personal, when it happens to someone that's so close to you, the issue almost becomes so much more relatable and easy to access for you. What have been some of the most Like I loved what you said, Like the moment you walked in here, I was telling you how much I've appreciated the impact work you're doing. And you're like, we're not doing it fast enough, there's more to do. You know, well we're not, And I love that, Like, that's exactly the energy you need to have. So walk me through the winds that have been there that have shown you that you're doing the right thing, and then walk me through one are the issues that you're still trying to solve and figure out.

Yeah. No, And I'm glad you've repeated that story. There may be some of alreadyence who may or may not be away, so thank you for sharing that. But and I wanted them to hear it from you because it is it's so interesting when something becomes so personal, when it happens to someone that's so close to you, the issue almost becomes so much more relatable and easy to access for you. What have been some of the most Like I loved what you said, Like the moment you walked in here, I was telling you how much I've appreciated the impact work you're doing. And you're like, we're not doing it fast enough, there's more to do. You know, well we're not, And I love that, Like, that's exactly the energy you need to have. So walk me through the winds that have been there that have shown you that you're doing the right thing, and then walk me through one are the issues that you're still trying to solve and figure out.

Well, look, the interesting thing was when Meek got sent to prison in November twenty seventeen, just about everybody I knew said, do not get involved in this. This wee we fleed poorly on the Sixers, This we fleed poorly on fanatics. Less people will buy tickets and they're going to see you helping a criminal, and so dasire pre As from Rock Nation myself. You know, we spent a lot of the next six months you know, working every day to get him out of prison. And once we got him out of prison, you know, Meek said to me, And I said to Meek, like, look, this is testinon. You got sent to prison because you were the one anointed to help fix the system. And I would if you would have asked me before November twelfth, twenty seventeen, when he got sent to prison, if you would have said to me, what do I care about? From a charity perspective? Who was writing checks to get people out of my office as quickly as possible. I did not care about any issues. But what Meeke used always say to me, Michael, this is a normal day for black America. And so you know that he had been sent to prison for a technical probation violation, it was easy for us to say, we have to change the probation and parole system. That's what we set out to do. The interesting thing was when we finally decided to do this, which was I guess finally when we did it. Immediately I was trying to figure out how to come up with a goal, because to me, you have to come up with big, bold goals. And this speaks to entrepreneurialism. And not taking a kind of charitable approach to things. I asked a friend of mine who I don't want a name, but someone I have a huge respect for. I said, you know, how many people should we try to get out of probation parle. They said, well, how many people in the system? I said four and a half million. They said we'll go with ten thousand. That's a really safe number. I said ten thousand. Let's go for a million. So we're in this less than five years. We've passed seventeen bills in eleven states and created a pathway for seven hundred thousand people to get off of probation and parrol who shouldn't be on it. And by the way, there were four and a half million people on probation proole when we started. There's three point eight million people ten And what's proven this really important understand If you keep someone on probation or parole too long, you entrap them in the criminal justice system, and then what you do is you actually create a less safe outcome for neighborhoods and for environments versus. If people serve their time, have their appropriate amount of rehabilitation, you know they're on probation Burrow for the right amount of time, then they're going to go out they're going to make, you know, a positive impact on them world. So Meek had been on probation between the time served and time left eighteen years now. In California where we're doing this today, the governor as signed it in one of the first bills that we did with the avenue, which was amazing, is a one year cap on misdemeanor and a two year cap on felonies. And that was like breakthrough legislation that we worked on together, you know, with many people to bring together to make that happen in the state of California. It's one of the best things we've done on the reform line. So my point is like, that's huge. We turn this negative into a positive. We then came up with a really bold goal that people thought we were nuts when I told people million people, Like everyone looked at me like I have seven heads, But I'm like, what's the worst that happens? Like, so we get three hundred thousand people, four undred thousand people, I Alstoll think we won. I don't care you want to say we fail because we didn't get the million. And by the way, now we're gonna we're gonna surpass the million.