Hypnosis is a state of highly focused attention. Have you ever gotten so caught up in a good movie that you kind of forget you're watching a movie? Absolutely, you become part of the movie instead of part of the audience.

Hypnosis is a state of highly focused attention. Have you ever gotten so caught up in a good movie that you kind of forget you're watching a movie? Absolutely, you become part of the movie instead of part of the audience.

World renowned psychiatrist expert on self hypnosis, doctor David.

World renowned psychiatrist expert on self hypnosis, doctor David.

Spiegel, How do we change ourselves? Deal with the aspect of the threat and you can control it? Wow, your boss may have said something awful to you, but your body doesn't have to react that way.

Spiegel, How do we change ourselves? Deal with the aspect of the threat and you can control it? Wow, your boss may have said something awful to you, but your body doesn't have to react that way.

Is it possible to control others with hypnosis?

Is it possible to control others with hypnosis?

The number one health and well in the.

The number one health and well in the.

Podcast Jay Shet, Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become the happier, healthier and more healed.

Podcast Jay Shet, Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become the happier, healthier and more healed.

You know that I love sitting down with thought leaders and experts who introduce us to new modalities and ideas and insights that can improve our daily lives. Today's guest is someone I've been really excited to talk to. I'm speaking to doctor David Spiegel, who's a Wilson Professor and Associate Chair of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, director of the Center on Stress and Health, and medical director of the Center for Integrative Medicine at Stanford University School of Medicine. Doctor David Spiegel is the founder of Reverie, the world's first interactive self hypnosis app. You can download it as soon as you want to while you're listening to this conversation. Doctor Spiegel has more than forty five years of clinical and research expertise, has published thirteen books, four hundred and four scientific journal articles, and his work has been supported by the National Institute of Mental Health, the National Cancer Institute, and so many more. Please welcome to On Purpose, doctor David Spiegel. David, it's great to have you here. Thank you for being here.

You know that I love sitting down with thought leaders and experts who introduce us to new modalities and ideas and insights that can improve our daily lives. Today's guest is someone I've been really excited to talk to. I'm speaking to doctor David Spiegel, who's a Wilson Professor and Associate Chair of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, director of the Center on Stress and Health, and medical director of the Center for Integrative Medicine at Stanford University School of Medicine. Doctor David Spiegel is the founder of Reverie, the world's first interactive self hypnosis app. You can download it as soon as you want to while you're listening to this conversation. Doctor Spiegel has more than forty five years of clinical and research expertise, has published thirteen books, four hundred and four scientific journal articles, and his work has been supported by the National Institute of Mental Health, the National Cancer Institute, and so many more. Please welcome to On Purpose, doctor David Spiegel. David, it's great to have you here. Thank you for being here.

Thank you so much. Jay. I'm delighted to be here talking with you.

Thank you so much. Jay. I'm delighted to be here talking with you.

I'm so fascinated by your work and I'm so excited I get to bring it to my community and audience. And I wanted to start off because I really want to take the audience on a journey today to really understand. I think hypnotherapy and hypnosis are words and ideas and things that we've heard about for a long period of time, but we have a very limited understanding of what it actually is. So I'd love to start with what is hypnosis and what are some of the misconceptions about it.

I'm so fascinated by your work and I'm so excited I get to bring it to my community and audience. And I wanted to start off because I really want to take the audience on a journey today to really understand. I think hypnotherapy and hypnosis are words and ideas and things that we've heard about for a long period of time, but we have a very limited understanding of what it actually is. So I'd love to start with what is hypnosis and what are some of the misconceptions about it.

Hypnosis is, oddly enough, the oldest Western conception of a psychotherapy, the first time a talking interaction was thought to have therapeutic benefit. And I think there's much overlap some of the things you do and think like a monk, you know, focusing on visualization, on controlling or breathing, on visualizing things that can be ways of being different. And hypnosis is a state of highly focused attention. It's like getting Have you ever gotten so caught up in a good movie that you kind of forget you're watching a movie? Absolutely so you become part of the movie instead of part of the audience. Now, what you're doing when you're doing that is using for consciousness what a telephoto lens does for a camera. You see what you see with great detail, but you're less aware of the context. You dissociate other things you would ordinarily be aware of. Our brains are processing thousands of things all the time, what's going on in the body, noises, potential threats, all kinds of things. But in hypnosis you narrow the range of focus. And for example, right now you're having sensations in your body touching these nice chairs, but hopefully you weren't even aware of that. If you're ware, we could stop the interview right now. So we all do that. We can put out of awareness things that would ordinarily be inawares and hypnosis you focus intently, you dissociate, and the third thing you do is you disconnect from your ordinary ways of being and thinking. And this is where I think there's a lot of similarity between meditation, mindfulness and what you do in hypnosis, which is you kind of get over yourself, but in a somewhat different way. You suspend your view of yourself and you try out being different. Now, the thing that scares a lot of people is that many people have been to one of these awful stage shows, you know, where they've seen the football coach dance like a ball arena. And I don't like making fun of people. But at the same time, there is a point, and the point is for us to change. And that's what your life's work is about now, is how do we change ourselves? How do we not get trapped in sort of wrote desires or I love that there was a quote you had about how life is too short to spend your time living somebody else's life, you know, And I think what you can do in hypnosis, in narrowing your focus of attention in dissociating is suspend your usual view feeling about what you're like and try out being different.

Hypnosis is, oddly enough, the oldest Western conception of a psychotherapy, the first time a talking interaction was thought to have therapeutic benefit. And I think there's much overlap some of the things you do and think like a monk, you know, focusing on visualization, on controlling or breathing, on visualizing things that can be ways of being different. And hypnosis is a state of highly focused attention. It's like getting Have you ever gotten so caught up in a good movie that you kind of forget you're watching a movie? Absolutely so you become part of the movie instead of part of the audience. Now, what you're doing when you're doing that is using for consciousness what a telephoto lens does for a camera. You see what you see with great detail, but you're less aware of the context. You dissociate other things you would ordinarily be aware of. Our brains are processing thousands of things all the time, what's going on in the body, noises, potential threats, all kinds of things. But in hypnosis you narrow the range of focus. And for example, right now you're having sensations in your body touching these nice chairs, but hopefully you weren't even aware of that. If you're ware, we could stop the interview right now. So we all do that. We can put out of awareness things that would ordinarily be inawares and hypnosis you focus intently, you dissociate, and the third thing you do is you disconnect from your ordinary ways of being and thinking. And this is where I think there's a lot of similarity between meditation, mindfulness and what you do in hypnosis, which is you kind of get over yourself, but in a somewhat different way. You suspend your view of yourself and you try out being different. Now, the thing that scares a lot of people is that many people have been to one of these awful stage shows, you know, where they've seen the football coach dance like a ball arena. And I don't like making fun of people. But at the same time, there is a point, and the point is for us to change. And that's what your life's work is about now, is how do we change ourselves? How do we not get trapped in sort of wrote desires or I love that there was a quote you had about how life is too short to spend your time living somebody else's life, you know, And I think what you can do in hypnosis, in narrowing your focus of attention in dissociating is suspend your usual view feeling about what you're like and try out being different.

Absolutely, yeah, I believe those Steve jobs Is said.

Absolutely, yeah, I believe those Steve jobs Is said.

That, Yes, such Steve Jobs, such a.

That, Yes, such Steve Jobs, such a.

Powerful message, and I really appreciate the way you're explaining hypnosis and hypnotherapy. I find that what would you say are the common uses or because I think again, like you said, you've seen something on stage, or you've seen it in a movie, and it's used to often manipulate someone, or it's used to extract information, it's used for some sort of heist right in the movie or entertainment world. How would you find hypnosis or hypnotherapy being useful as individuals? Where does it become something that any one of us can access, use, utilize a need.

Powerful message, and I really appreciate the way you're explaining hypnosis and hypnotherapy. I find that what would you say are the common uses or because I think again, like you said, you've seen something on stage, or you've seen it in a movie, and it's used to often manipulate someone, or it's used to extract information, it's used for some sort of heist right in the movie or entertainment world. How would you find hypnosis or hypnotherapy being useful as individuals? Where does it become something that any one of us can access, use, utilize a need.

Well, the thing is that hypnosis is really a naturally occurring ability that people have to varying degrees, but it's something that we just don't tap. And all hypnosis is really self hypnosis. So just like you try to teach people, you do teach people how to meditate, how to be mindful of what they're doing, you're helping them discover a capacity within themselves that they can use. Hypnosis is very similar in that sense that most people have some ability to narrow their focus, and it's not a loss of control, it's a gain of control. You're learning that you can filter heart out of pain, that you can get to sleep better, that you can manage stress in a way that doesn't keep it proliferating, but teaches you to control it. I saw a man yesterday who a brilliant professor, who had radiation to his nose because he had a tumor there that needed to be treated, and he had terrible sensitivity in his noses, in his mouth, and he tried everything. He tried like seven different ways to neutralize the nerve signals. He took medications, he did all. It didn't work, and he was getting more and more frustrated because his life was his words and he was a tea and couldn't stand the thought of not being able to do that because he was so frustrated by it. And he found with a few minutes of learning self hypnosis that he could reduce the interference by fifty percent. He was amazed. He said, you know, my hand is feeling light and I feel some waves going through it, and I had him touch his face and kind of spread those waves, and he felt different right away. He was amazed. His wife was sitting and watching and she said, I'm not surprised, but it is a way of altering the way we manage our focus of attention, our processing of sensory input, and so literally we can filter the heart out of the pain. We can manage stress better by focusing from on the body up rather than the head down. You know, we often think, well, if I just figure out what's stressing me, and you know, decide is not a portin, or figure out a better way to do it, I won't be stressed. But what happens with stress is usually it's from the up that you see something that threatens you. We're pretty pathetic physical creatures. We don't run that fast, we don't smell that well, we don't hear that well, and so normally we have to re evolved because we treated most stressors as physical threats and you better get your heart rate up, in your blood pressure up, be ready to fight or flee. But most of the stresses we have now are not life threats. So if you respond physically your body's telling your brain, oh my god, this is really terrible, and the brain thinks, oh, yeah, this really I feel bad. This must be really bad, and it's like a snowball rolling downhill. And with hypnosis, you can deal with the aspect of the threat that actually makes you most worried about it, and you can control it. You can say, well, your boss may have said something awful to you, but your body doesn't have to react that way. So imagine you're floating in a bath, the lake tubb or floating in space, and then picture on an imaginary screen your boss on one side and what you might say or do on the other in the context of feeling physically more comfortable. So hypnosis is a way of, in a very focused way, controlling mind and body interactions in a way that helps you handle them better.

Well, the thing is that hypnosis is really a naturally occurring ability that people have to varying degrees, but it's something that we just don't tap. And all hypnosis is really self hypnosis. So just like you try to teach people, you do teach people how to meditate, how to be mindful of what they're doing, you're helping them discover a capacity within themselves that they can use. Hypnosis is very similar in that sense that most people have some ability to narrow their focus, and it's not a loss of control, it's a gain of control. You're learning that you can filter heart out of pain, that you can get to sleep better, that you can manage stress in a way that doesn't keep it proliferating, but teaches you to control it. I saw a man yesterday who a brilliant professor, who had radiation to his nose because he had a tumor there that needed to be treated, and he had terrible sensitivity in his noses, in his mouth, and he tried everything. He tried like seven different ways to neutralize the nerve signals. He took medications, he did all. It didn't work, and he was getting more and more frustrated because his life was his words and he was a tea and couldn't stand the thought of not being able to do that because he was so frustrated by it. And he found with a few minutes of learning self hypnosis that he could reduce the interference by fifty percent. He was amazed. He said, you know, my hand is feeling light and I feel some waves going through it, and I had him touch his face and kind of spread those waves, and he felt different right away. He was amazed. His wife was sitting and watching and she said, I'm not surprised, but it is a way of altering the way we manage our focus of attention, our processing of sensory input, and so literally we can filter the heart out of the pain. We can manage stress better by focusing from on the body up rather than the head down. You know, we often think, well, if I just figure out what's stressing me, and you know, decide is not a portin, or figure out a better way to do it, I won't be stressed. But what happens with stress is usually it's from the up that you see something that threatens you. We're pretty pathetic physical creatures. We don't run that fast, we don't smell that well, we don't hear that well, and so normally we have to re evolved because we treated most stressors as physical threats and you better get your heart rate up, in your blood pressure up, be ready to fight or flee. But most of the stresses we have now are not life threats. So if you respond physically your body's telling your brain, oh my god, this is really terrible, and the brain thinks, oh, yeah, this really I feel bad. This must be really bad, and it's like a snowball rolling downhill. And with hypnosis, you can deal with the aspect of the threat that actually makes you most worried about it, and you can control it. You can say, well, your boss may have said something awful to you, but your body doesn't have to react that way. So imagine you're floating in a bath, the lake tubb or floating in space, and then picture on an imaginary screen your boss on one side and what you might say or do on the other in the context of feeling physically more comfortable. So hypnosis is a way of, in a very focused way, controlling mind and body interactions in a way that helps you handle them better.

And can you look us through, David, the neurobiology what's happening to our brain in this period? Because I think again, often people have looked at some of these modalities as being wo wo or being slightly alternative, et cetera. But what's actually happening from a neuroscience perspective.

And can you look us through, David, the neurobiology what's happening to our brain in this period? Because I think again, often people have looked at some of these modalities as being wo wo or being slightly alternative, et cetera. But what's actually happening from a neuroscience perspective.

Yeah, well, I've lived with it for a long time But we've spent a decade studying what's going on in the brain using functional magnetic resonance imaging with people who are high and low and hypnotizability in and out of hypnotic states, and we find three things happen in the brain when you go into hypnosis. The first is you turn down activity in the anterior cingulate cortext that's part of what we call the same alience network. It's a pattern matching region of the brain that says there's something different going on here. Maybe you better look out. So you hear a loud noise and you think, is it a threat? What is it? That's the salience network firing off, saying there may be trouble here, you're better attend to it. You turn down activity in that part of the brain. The singulate cortex is like an inverted sea right in the middle of the brain, and the front part of it is the salience network. We found that the more hypnotized people felt, the less activity there was in that part of the brain, So you're turning off the home alarm system and just letting yourself experience what you experience. We find actually that the more hypnotizable people are the more of an inhibitory neurotransmitter, gamma aminobuteric acid they have in the anterior cingulate. So it's the drug that benzodiazepines, anti anxiety drugs actually stimulate GABBA receptors, and so that's how we can control ourselves. We can reduce anxiety, but you don't need a drug to do it. You can do it yourself. The second thing that happens is we have more functional connectivity between the dorsalateral prefrontal cortex on the left and a part of the rank called the insuli. It's Latin for island, and it's a little island of tissue in the middle of the front part of the brain that is a mind body conduit. So when you're when that connection is happening, you have more ability to control what's happening in your body, to control heart rate and blood pressure, your level of arousal, to control of the functioning of the gastrointestinal system. We found that highly hypnotizable people given a hypnotic construction to imagine imaginary meal actually increase their gastric acid secretion by eighty nine percent. We had one subject who was taking a gastronomictory of the Bay Area, and after about a half an hour of she said, let's stop. I'm full, you know, just eating imaginary food. And when they do the opposite, when they relax but think of anything butt food or drink, we got a thirty nine percent decreasing gastric acid. So the brain has an amazing ability to control what's going on in the body. That's this prefrontal cortex to insul a connection and also to be more aware of what's going on in the body. We call that interroception, so you enhance your regulation of the body and perception of it. The third one, and I think this might be especial interest to you, Jay, in view of your interest of how we get trapped in notions of ourselves and try to be something we're not and don't focus on the fundamental things. You get inverse connectivity between the prefrontal cortex and the posterior singular cortext that's a part of the brain that we call the default mode network where you contemplate who you are what you are instead of what you're doing. When you're not working or doing anything, you're just reflecting. And it's the part of the brain that is the closest probably to what we call the superego and analytic terms, where you're looking at yourself and saying, who am I, who should I be? What do I want to be? And so you're to the extent you're engaged in the hypnotic task, you're suppressing activity there. And that's the football coach dancing like a ballerina. You know, I don't care. I'll just try it anyway and see what it's like. Now, that's silly, but if you want people to change, it's a great opportunity to say, you know what, just try it. See what it feels like to be different. Can you be in the same situation and react to it differently, not struggle against it, not fight it, see what you can learn from it. And so that and that's a part of the brain where activity is suppressed. In experienced meditators too. The mindfulness tends to inhibit activity in this posterior singula default mode area, or I call it the my fault mode network. You know, it's when you're reflecting on what's wrong with you. And so it's a part of the brain that is also affected by psychedelic drugs that this sort of dissolution of the self comes but through disorganization of activity in the posterior singulate cortex. There's a new paper in Nature out with some leading neuroscientists who took psychedelics and scanned their brains eighteen times over a couple of weeks and found disorganization in that region of the brain. So it's a center for change because you can inhibit your usual views of who you are, and that's something that hypnosis helps you to do.

Yeah, well, I've lived with it for a long time But we've spent a decade studying what's going on in the brain using functional magnetic resonance imaging with people who are high and low and hypnotizability in and out of hypnotic states, and we find three things happen in the brain when you go into hypnosis. The first is you turn down activity in the anterior cingulate cortext that's part of what we call the same alience network. It's a pattern matching region of the brain that says there's something different going on here. Maybe you better look out. So you hear a loud noise and you think, is it a threat? What is it? That's the salience network firing off, saying there may be trouble here, you're better attend to it. You turn down activity in that part of the brain. The singulate cortex is like an inverted sea right in the middle of the brain, and the front part of it is the salience network. We found that the more hypnotized people felt, the less activity there was in that part of the brain, So you're turning off the home alarm system and just letting yourself experience what you experience. We find actually that the more hypnotizable people are the more of an inhibitory neurotransmitter, gamma aminobuteric acid they have in the anterior cingulate. So it's the drug that benzodiazepines, anti anxiety drugs actually stimulate GABBA receptors, and so that's how we can control ourselves. We can reduce anxiety, but you don't need a drug to do it. You can do it yourself. The second thing that happens is we have more functional connectivity between the dorsalateral prefrontal cortex on the left and a part of the rank called the insuli. It's Latin for island, and it's a little island of tissue in the middle of the front part of the brain that is a mind body conduit. So when you're when that connection is happening, you have more ability to control what's happening in your body, to control heart rate and blood pressure, your level of arousal, to control of the functioning of the gastrointestinal system. We found that highly hypnotizable people given a hypnotic construction to imagine imaginary meal actually increase their gastric acid secretion by eighty nine percent. We had one subject who was taking a gastronomictory of the Bay Area, and after about a half an hour of she said, let's stop. I'm full, you know, just eating imaginary food. And when they do the opposite, when they relax but think of anything butt food or drink, we got a thirty nine percent decreasing gastric acid. So the brain has an amazing ability to control what's going on in the body. That's this prefrontal cortex to insul a connection and also to be more aware of what's going on in the body. We call that interroception, so you enhance your regulation of the body and perception of it. The third one, and I think this might be especial interest to you, Jay, in view of your interest of how we get trapped in notions of ourselves and try to be something we're not and don't focus on the fundamental things. You get inverse connectivity between the prefrontal cortex and the posterior singular cortext that's a part of the brain that we call the default mode network where you contemplate who you are what you are instead of what you're doing. When you're not working or doing anything, you're just reflecting. And it's the part of the brain that is the closest probably to what we call the superego and analytic terms, where you're looking at yourself and saying, who am I, who should I be? What do I want to be? And so you're to the extent you're engaged in the hypnotic task, you're suppressing activity there. And that's the football coach dancing like a ballerina. You know, I don't care. I'll just try it anyway and see what it's like. Now, that's silly, but if you want people to change, it's a great opportunity to say, you know what, just try it. See what it feels like to be different. Can you be in the same situation and react to it differently, not struggle against it, not fight it, see what you can learn from it. And so that and that's a part of the brain where activity is suppressed. In experienced meditators too. The mindfulness tends to inhibit activity in this posterior singula default mode area, or I call it the my fault mode network. You know, it's when you're reflecting on what's wrong with you. And so it's a part of the brain that is also affected by psychedelic drugs that this sort of dissolution of the self comes but through disorganization of activity in the posterior singulate cortex. There's a new paper in Nature out with some leading neuroscientists who took psychedelics and scanned their brains eighteen times over a couple of weeks and found disorganization in that region of the brain. So it's a center for change because you can inhibit your usual views of who you are, and that's something that hypnosis helps you to do.

Is it possible to control others with hypnosis and hypnotherapy?

Is it possible to control others with hypnosis and hypnotherapy?

Well, jay I I would say yes and no. I mean we're social creatures. We're susceptible of social influence. And you know, if you pay any if you engage in the painful act of paying any attention to recent American politics, you'll see that people are influenced by all kinds of things and believe all kinds of things that just flat out aren't true. And it is the case that people in hypnosis, since they're more focused, are more likely to suspend their usual evaluation and judgment of things and see what it would be like if this were true instead of that. And there are people who have been and can be influenced to some extent. But you know what, people who are highly hypnotizable do that without ever having been formally hypnotized. They'll tell you. I just you know, the highly hypnotizable people tend to be very sensitive to other people. They pick up their emotional cues very well, and they respond often easily, putting somebody else's priorities above their own. So does that mean you're more easily influenced. Perhaps, But frankly, I think you're better protected if you understand more about your tendency to do that, and you can defend yourself more. So. Hypnosis is a way of being influenced by other people but also being influenced by your own desires and wishes. So I would say it's there, take full advantage of it.

Well, jay I I would say yes and no. I mean we're social creatures. We're susceptible of social influence. And you know, if you pay any if you engage in the painful act of paying any attention to recent American politics, you'll see that people are influenced by all kinds of things and believe all kinds of things that just flat out aren't true. And it is the case that people in hypnosis, since they're more focused, are more likely to suspend their usual evaluation and judgment of things and see what it would be like if this were true instead of that. And there are people who have been and can be influenced to some extent. But you know what, people who are highly hypnotizable do that without ever having been formally hypnotized. They'll tell you. I just you know, the highly hypnotizable people tend to be very sensitive to other people. They pick up their emotional cues very well, and they respond often easily, putting somebody else's priorities above their own. So does that mean you're more easily influenced. Perhaps, But frankly, I think you're better protected if you understand more about your tendency to do that, and you can defend yourself more. So. Hypnosis is a way of being influenced by other people but also being influenced by your own desires and wishes. So I would say it's there, take full advantage of it.

How does one know if they're hypnotizable? Because I believe that most people would feel like, oh, I would never work on me, and I don't think it would work on me like they do with meditation as well. People always think, oh, that won't work for me. My mind is everywhere. How does someone know if they can be hypnotized? Well?

How does one know if they're hypnotizable? Because I believe that most people would feel like, oh, I would never work on me, and I don't think it would work on me like they do with meditation as well. People always think, oh, that won't work for me. My mind is everywhere. How does someone know if they can be hypnotized? Well?

On the Reverie app, we have a six minute hypnotizability test it's a standard test. I've used it with about seven thousand patients and research subjects in my career. It just it can be done very quickly. You give a series of hypnotic instructions and see how the person can respond to them. And if you'd like, Jay, I can test your hypnotizability right now.

On the Reverie app, we have a six minute hypnotizability test it's a standard test. I've used it with about seven thousand patients and research subjects in my career. It just it can be done very quickly. You give a series of hypnotic instructions and see how the person can respond to them. And if you'd like, Jay, I can test your hypnotizability right now.

I think we should do it.

I think we should do it.

Yeah you are. I bet your listeners are placing bets just admatizable.

Yeah you are. I bet your listeners are placing bets just admatizable.

I love it.

I love it.

So get as comfortable as you can. Put one arm on either side of the chair, and please look up now to the top of your head, all the way up, eye as you can, pass your eyebrows all the way up, way way up. Good, And as you keep looking up, slowly close your eyes. All right now, let your eyes relax, but keep them closed. Take a deep breath in nice slow exhale through your mouth. Let your eyes relax, but keep them closed, and let your body float. Just imagine you're floating somewhere safe and comfortable, like a bath, a lake, a hot tub, floating in space. And while your body's floating, I'm going to ask you to take your right hand and stroke the back of your left middle finger. So let your right hand float over and stroke the back of your left middle fing and stroke backward towards your wrist. Now and up your forearm to your elbow. And as you do that, you'll feel a sense of tingling and numbness and lightness. And now put your right hand back down and let your left hand float up in the air like a balloon. Let it float up to a comfortable upright position. You can leave it straight up in the air as it is, or you can rest your elbow on the arm of the chair. Whatever feels better to you. And I'm going to give you this instruction. Your hand will remain light and in this upright position even after I give you the signal for your eyes to open. Later, when I ask you to pull your left hand back down to the arm of the chair and then let go, your left hand will float right back up to the upright position. You'll find something pleasant and amusing about this sensation. After that, when I ask you to touch your elbow, your usual sensation and control will return. Each time you go into this state of concentration, you'll find it easier and easier to do, and you can use it to help you concentrate on what's important to you. Right now, we'll come out of this state of concentration together by counting backwards from three to one. On three, you'll get ready. On two with your eye that's closed, roll up your eyes and one let your eyes open. Ready, three, two, one? Right now stand in this position. Please and describe what physical sensations you're aware of now in your left hand and arm. There's a tingling in my fingers, tingling? Is it comfortable?

So get as comfortable as you can. Put one arm on either side of the chair, and please look up now to the top of your head, all the way up, eye as you can, pass your eyebrows all the way up, way way up. Good, And as you keep looking up, slowly close your eyes. All right now, let your eyes relax, but keep them closed. Take a deep breath in nice slow exhale through your mouth. Let your eyes relax, but keep them closed, and let your body float. Just imagine you're floating somewhere safe and comfortable, like a bath, a lake, a hot tub, floating in space. And while your body's floating, I'm going to ask you to take your right hand and stroke the back of your left middle finger. So let your right hand float over and stroke the back of your left middle fing and stroke backward towards your wrist. Now and up your forearm to your elbow. And as you do that, you'll feel a sense of tingling and numbness and lightness. And now put your right hand back down and let your left hand float up in the air like a balloon. Let it float up to a comfortable upright position. You can leave it straight up in the air as it is, or you can rest your elbow on the arm of the chair. Whatever feels better to you. And I'm going to give you this instruction. Your hand will remain light and in this upright position even after I give you the signal for your eyes to open. Later, when I ask you to pull your left hand back down to the arm of the chair and then let go, your left hand will float right back up to the upright position. You'll find something pleasant and amusing about this sensation. After that, when I ask you to touch your elbow, your usual sensation and control will return. Each time you go into this state of concentration, you'll find it easier and easier to do, and you can use it to help you concentrate on what's important to you. Right now, we'll come out of this state of concentration together by counting backwards from three to one. On three, you'll get ready. On two with your eye that's closed, roll up your eyes and one let your eyes open. Ready, three, two, one? Right now stand in this position. Please and describe what physical sensations you're aware of now in your left hand and arm. There's a tingling in my fingers, tingling? Is it comfortable?

Comfortable?

Comfortable?

Very comfortable. Does your left hand feel as if it's not as much a part of your body as your right hand? Agreed, it's lighter, it's lighter. Okay. Does that surprise you at all?

Very comfortable. Does your left hand feel as if it's not as much a part of your body as your right hand? Agreed, it's lighter, it's lighter. Okay. Does that surprise you at all?

It's interesting to perceive the sensation.

It's interesting to perceive the sensation.

The sense it, Yeah, to be aware of it. Okay, it's interesting for sure. It's curious. Okay. Now please take your right hand, pull your left hand back down to the arm of the chair, and then let go. Now, your left hand just popped up. Can you describe what that felt like?

The sense it, Yeah, to be aware of it. Okay, it's interesting for sure. It's curious. Okay. Now please take your right hand, pull your left hand back down to the arm of the chair, and then let go. Now, your left hand just popped up. Can you describe what that felt like?

It felt like a pull, almost like that I that I had to lift it up, That you had to lift it up. Yeah, that it felt like I should It felt right to do it.

It felt like a pull, almost like that I that I had to lift it up, That you had to lift it up. Yeah, that it felt like I should It felt right to do it.

It felt right good? Yeah? Is that surprising to you that is very.

It felt right good? Yeah? Is that surprising to you that is very.

Surprising to me.

Surprising to me.

All right, I can feel it. It was a physical sensationhip, it was physical.

All right, I can feel it. It was a physical sensationhip, it was physical.

It was physical. It wasn't mental, because I know you'd said that in the instructions, and I could hear that, I could feel it in my brain, so I guess there's something better. But it felt physically.

It was physical. It wasn't mental, because I know you'd said that in the instructions, and I could hear that, I could feel it in my brain, so I guess there's something better. But it felt physically.

It felt like it felt like a force, a physical force. By way of comparison, please raise your right hand, put that one down. Any difference in sensation.

It felt like it felt like a force, a physical force. By way of comparison, please raise your right hand, put that one down. Any difference in sensation.

Yeah, there's no feeling of there being any other this and my left hand almost feels like there's puppet strings attached, puppet strings, whereas here I don't feel they're They're like, I feel like I can do what I want with this, whereas this hand feels very like.

Yeah, there's no feeling of there being any other this and my left hand almost feels like there's puppet strings attached, puppet strings, whereas here I don't feel they're They're like, I feel like I can do what I want with this, whereas this hand feels very like.

Well, I'm here to tell you folks, there are no puppets.

Well, I'm here to tell you folks, there are no puppets.

But in that in that sensation of the idea that in the sense I don't know how to describe that, it's this hand feels fully under my control, whereas this hand feels like there's a sense of I'm trying to I want to nail the expression. It's this hand I can do whatever I want with it right now. Is this hand feels like that's where it's meant to be.

But in that in that sensation of the idea that in the sense I don't know how to describe that, it's this hand feels fully under my control, whereas this hand feels like there's a sense of I'm trying to I want to nail the expression. It's this hand I can do whatever I want with it right now. Is this hand feels like that's where it's meant to be.

That's where it's meant to be, so you clearly have more control over your right right all right, now, please take your right hand, touch your left elbow, and then let go.

That's where it's meant to be, so you clearly have more control over your right right all right, now, please take your right hand, touch your left elbow, and then let go.

Let go like this.

Let go like this.

Yeah, now I see that your left hand went back down. Can you describe what that feels like?

Yeah, now I see that your left hand went back down. Can you describe what that feels like?

There's still a sensation in my forearm that makes me want to lift it slightly for some comfort. But when I put it down fully, it's slowly getting more acclimatized to matching with the right but it's not there yet.

There's still a sensation in my forearm that makes me want to lift it slightly for some comfort. But when I put it down fully, it's slowly getting more acclimatized to matching with the right but it's not there yet.

There yet, Okay, some sensation there, so it feels the sensation is different, but the control is now.

There yet, Okay, some sensation there, so it feels the sensation is different, but the control is now.

Yeah, I could like still want to lift it a little bit. There's still that feeling of wanting to lift it.

Yeah, I could like still want to lift it a little bit. There's still that feeling of wanting to lift it.

All right, Well, touch your left elbow again with your right hand open now, shake both hands and tell me when the control becomes the same. Slowly getting there, getting there? Okay. Did I do or say anything that would indicate there'd be a change in sensation or control in your left hand and arm?

All right, Well, touch your left elbow again with your right hand open now, shake both hands and tell me when the control becomes the same. Slowly getting there, getting there? Okay. Did I do or say anything that would indicate there'd be a change in sensation or control in your left hand and arm?

No, I don't think so.

No, I don't think so.

Did I say anything to you about your elbow or touching your elbow?

Did I say anything to you about your elbow or touching your elbow?

I believe.

I believe.

So, yes, yeah, do you remember what I said?

So, yes, yeah, do you remember what I said?

Yeah? You said when I would touch my elbow that would return back.

Yeah? You said when I would touch my elbow that would return back.

You didn't, and you did touch your elbow. Okay. Did you have a sense of floating lightness or buoyancy in your left hand and arm during Did you have that sense in any other part of your body? I don't think in chest. Okay, so your score is seven out of ten. You're quite hymnatizable, which is shocking to me.

You didn't, and you did touch your elbow. Okay. Did you have a sense of floating lightness or buoyancy in your left hand and arm during Did you have that sense in any other part of your body? I don't think in chest. Okay, so your score is seven out of ten. You're quite hymnatizable, which is shocking to me.

It is really, I just I just never thought I had this really strange thing happened that when you were talking. And I know we haven't even got into it yet, but when you asked me to roll my head, I think I find myself often to be non hypnotiza were just because I don't know. I guess I've never opened myself up to it. But I felt this when you were kind of about to calt me down. I felt like my head is getting heavier and lowering, and I felt like I was like I could. I was aware that I was sinking, but I was like, why am I sinking? Like what's going on? And so it's always like my head was straight back because you asked me to be comfortable as if I was floating. So when you said that, I kind of leaned back and I felt like I was floating in a lake, as you said. But then when you said, like, we're going to bring back ourselves conscious and my head started to do this and it was such a natural heaviness that brought my head down. But there was a part of me that was going, why are we doing this right now? Why am I dropping my head? But I am dropping my head.

It is really, I just I just never thought I had this really strange thing happened that when you were talking. And I know we haven't even got into it yet, but when you asked me to roll my head, I think I find myself often to be non hypnotiza were just because I don't know. I guess I've never opened myself up to it. But I felt this when you were kind of about to calt me down. I felt like my head is getting heavier and lowering, and I felt like I was like I could. I was aware that I was sinking, but I was like, why am I sinking? Like what's going on? And so it's always like my head was straight back because you asked me to be comfortable as if I was floating. So when you said that, I kind of leaned back and I felt like I was floating in a lake, as you said. But then when you said, like, we're going to bring back ourselves conscious and my head started to do this and it was such a natural heaviness that brought my head down. But there was a part of me that was going, why are we doing this right now? Why am I dropping my head? But I am dropping my head.

So your head was drooping forward, it was leaning was.

So your head was drooping forward, it was leaning was.

Leaning forward, but you didn't ask me to do that, and I didn't know why I was doing it, but it felt natural to kind of feel like I was sinking in.

Leaning forward, but you didn't ask me to do that, and I didn't know why I was doing it, but it felt natural to kind of feel like I was sinking in.

Yes, sinking into it. So you were elaborating upon the image that you were feeling, and that's you know, hypnosis is about very rapidly doing things, changing the way your body feels. You have with all of your experience in mindfulness. This is something different for you. How would you say it's different from where the state to get into mindfulness?

Yes, sinking into it. So you were elaborating upon the image that you were feeling, and that's you know, hypnosis is about very rapidly doing things, changing the way your body feels. You have with all of your experience in mindfulness. This is something different for you. How would you say it's different from where the state to get into mindfulness?

That's a great question. I would say that the state of sinking and being in that state of awake and alert but also resting is something I feel certain mindfulness practices can allow us to create that STUF eight. I've never created it through physical movement. It's always created through being present or still or bringing my awareness to a particular object or my breath or whatever it may be. But I've never really felt it physically. It's probably the best way I could define the difference. I felt like I'm floating while meditating, or I felt a lightness in my entire body, but not in a specific hand or a specific part of my body I see.

That's a great question. I would say that the state of sinking and being in that state of awake and alert but also resting is something I feel certain mindfulness practices can allow us to create that STUF eight. I've never created it through physical movement. It's always created through being present or still or bringing my awareness to a particular object or my breath or whatever it may be. But I've never really felt it physically. It's probably the best way I could define the difference. I felt like I'm floating while meditating, or I felt a lightness in my entire body, but not in a specific hand or a specific part of my body I see.

So it's more slipping into the state but not using it right away to see if you can produce a change correct and frankly, when I use hypnosis with subjects, and I use this test with every person I use hypnosis with because it's a way for them to discover what the experience is like and how they feel it and to observe it, know, to see, don't take my word for it, try it out and see what it feels like, and for me to be able to evaluate in what way to work with them. Because some people can do something like what you did, some less not at all, not that many, but some people not at all. But it becomes a kind of immediate object lesson and how much more control we have over our body and how we react to that than we usually give ourselves credit for.

So it's more slipping into the state but not using it right away to see if you can produce a change correct and frankly, when I use hypnosis with subjects, and I use this test with every person I use hypnosis with because it's a way for them to discover what the experience is like and how they feel it and to observe it, know, to see, don't take my word for it, try it out and see what it feels like, and for me to be able to evaluate in what way to work with them. Because some people can do something like what you did, some less not at all, not that many, but some people not at all. But it becomes a kind of immediate object lesson and how much more control we have over our body and how we react to that than we usually give ourselves credit for.

What about the cynical mind that says, And that's what I'm so glad I'm talking to you about this, because you know years of research Stanford Medicine. It's the cynical mind that I avoided having in this experience, because I generally consider myself someone who wants to be open to experience and curious and open to letting things in to figure it out and see how useful it may be. But the cynical mind that says, well, of course Jay lifted his hand because David had said that he would lift his hand when he put it back down. But to me, I can genuinely say that, yes, there was an instruction in the brain, but there was also a feeling that was there. And so both those things and my cynical self. If I was trying to be annoying, which I would never want to in a you know, I've invited you to be my guest to my show, but the cynical, skeptical part of me would be like, oh, I'm just going to hold my hand down just to make a point. But I wanted to go with how I was actually feeling and intuitively feeling. So the cynical person that says, well, it's a placebo effect or it's something that David told you to do and that's why you did it. How do you process that kind of response or reaction that often I imagine arises.

What about the cynical mind that says, And that's what I'm so glad I'm talking to you about this, because you know years of research Stanford Medicine. It's the cynical mind that I avoided having in this experience, because I generally consider myself someone who wants to be open to experience and curious and open to letting things in to figure it out and see how useful it may be. But the cynical mind that says, well, of course Jay lifted his hand because David had said that he would lift his hand when he put it back down. But to me, I can genuinely say that, yes, there was an instruction in the brain, but there was also a feeling that was there. And so both those things and my cynical self. If I was trying to be annoying, which I would never want to in a you know, I've invited you to be my guest to my show, but the cynical, skeptical part of me would be like, oh, I'm just going to hold my hand down just to make a point. But I wanted to go with how I was actually feeling and intuitively feeling. So the cynical person that says, well, it's a placebo effect or it's something that David told you to do and that's why you did it. How do you process that kind of response or reaction that often I imagine arises.

Well, you know, I frankly think the best answer is you are highly experienced in mindfulness, in trying out different ways of being. And yet for you, and you're telling and look, I'm a guest on your show, this is your show. It would be fine for you to just say, you know, sorry, doc nice try I don't feel it, and I think you would be honest with your audience in doing that. I would, yes, But you had the experience. You know, years ago. I don't know if you remember this, but there was a guy named Phil Donahue who had a very popular daytime show and he invited me as a guest. Was at a time when it was thought to be dangerous to hypnotize someone in public. You wouldn't do that, other people might get hypnotized. So this woman I had hypnotized before the show began, and I had her arm up in the air like this. The show opens and I pull the hand down and it pops back up the way yours did. And the camera comes in closer, and Donna Hue says, look, this is just some doctor. I'm Phil Donahue. Keep your hand down, and he pulls her hand down and it pops right back up in the air, and she says, I'm starting to feel like a slot machine, you know. So the fun thing about it is is that if it's the real deal, it wasn't like you were saying, oh, I'll just keep my hand down. Your hand wanted to go up right. And that ability to quickly rearrange your mind body relationship is part of what's so interesting about hypnosis. And you experienced it, so you know. People can fight it if they want, or they can misrepresent what their experience is, but you didn't. You had the experience and that element of surprise that where people can see, damn, I look look what's happening in my body. Look what I can do this quickly? That's our world. I'm already starting therapy there, you know, because I'm showing people that they have more of an ability to control their body than they like to think, or than they usually think, and that's a tremendous opportunity.

Well, you know, I frankly think the best answer is you are highly experienced in mindfulness, in trying out different ways of being. And yet for you, and you're telling and look, I'm a guest on your show, this is your show. It would be fine for you to just say, you know, sorry, doc nice try I don't feel it, and I think you would be honest with your audience in doing that. I would, yes, But you had the experience. You know, years ago. I don't know if you remember this, but there was a guy named Phil Donahue who had a very popular daytime show and he invited me as a guest. Was at a time when it was thought to be dangerous to hypnotize someone in public. You wouldn't do that, other people might get hypnotized. So this woman I had hypnotized before the show began, and I had her arm up in the air like this. The show opens and I pull the hand down and it pops back up the way yours did. And the camera comes in closer, and Donna Hue says, look, this is just some doctor. I'm Phil Donahue. Keep your hand down, and he pulls her hand down and it pops right back up in the air, and she says, I'm starting to feel like a slot machine, you know. So the fun thing about it is is that if it's the real deal, it wasn't like you were saying, oh, I'll just keep my hand down. Your hand wanted to go up right. And that ability to quickly rearrange your mind body relationship is part of what's so interesting about hypnosis. And you experienced it, so you know. People can fight it if they want, or they can misrepresent what their experience is, but you didn't. You had the experience and that element of surprise that where people can see, damn, I look look what's happening in my body. Look what I can do this quickly? That's our world. I'm already starting therapy there, you know, because I'm showing people that they have more of an ability to control their body than they like to think, or than they usually think, and that's a tremendous opportunity.

Right, even though you're the one giving the instruction, you feel that that's showing that I have the power to control my body.

Right, even though you're the one giving the instruction, you feel that that's showing that I have the power to control my body.

That's a very important point, chat because it's I'm not taking control. And you may have did you feel like I was taking No? No, no, I thought. I'm a teacher. You know, I'm teaching you how to identify and utilize the abilities you have the way you do when you teach people how to use mindfulness, you know, you're not implanting mindfulness in them, You're showing them. Look, you know you're you've narrowed your view of who you are and what you are, and I'm going to help you expand it. And I'm going to show you the beauty and everyday experience and how you can reassess what's important to you in life. And people can be open to that and learned from it or not. But you're teaching them how to explore capacities they have that they may not have known about. And that's what I'm doing with hypnosis. I'm teaching them how to utilize their own ability. You know, our major evolutionary advantage as humans is our brain. This three pound object on the top of our shoulders. It doesn't come with a user's manual. You know, there are a lot of things our brains can do, and that's what you do teaching people mindfulness that you can use your brain in ways you hadn't thought of, and if they didn't have the basic ability to do it, it wouldn't work. And the same is true. That's what I'm doing with hypnosis. I'm not projecting anything onto someone. I'm teaching them how to use what they already know. When automobiles were invented some hundred and some years ago, there were a bunch of state laws against windshield wipers. Why because remember the oldest image of somebody inducing hypnosis was the dangling watch, you know, and it doesn't work very well with electronic watches now, But they thought people would be waving their eyes back and forth with the windshield wipers and going into hypnotic states when they were driving. It doesn't happen. But so it's an ability that people have and we just teach them how to use it.

That's a very important point, chat because it's I'm not taking control. And you may have did you feel like I was taking No? No, no, I thought. I'm a teacher. You know, I'm teaching you how to identify and utilize the abilities you have the way you do when you teach people how to use mindfulness, you know, you're not implanting mindfulness in them, You're showing them. Look, you know you're you've narrowed your view of who you are and what you are, and I'm going to help you expand it. And I'm going to show you the beauty and everyday experience and how you can reassess what's important to you in life. And people can be open to that and learned from it or not. But you're teaching them how to explore capacities they have that they may not have known about. And that's what I'm doing with hypnosis. I'm teaching them how to utilize their own ability. You know, our major evolutionary advantage as humans is our brain. This three pound object on the top of our shoulders. It doesn't come with a user's manual. You know, there are a lot of things our brains can do, and that's what you do teaching people mindfulness that you can use your brain in ways you hadn't thought of, and if they didn't have the basic ability to do it, it wouldn't work. And the same is true. That's what I'm doing with hypnosis. I'm not projecting anything onto someone. I'm teaching them how to use what they already know. When automobiles were invented some hundred and some years ago, there were a bunch of state laws against windshield wipers. Why because remember the oldest image of somebody inducing hypnosis was the dangling watch, you know, and it doesn't work very well with electronic watches now, But they thought people would be waving their eyes back and forth with the windshield wipers and going into hypnotic states when they were driving. It doesn't happen. But so it's an ability that people have and we just teach them how to use it.

Yeah, that's brilliant. Hey, I'm Jay Shatty and I wanted to invite you to a brand new interactive no charge workshop renew you that I'm eager to share with you. Over the years, I've worked with thousands of people across the globe, and I've noticed a common theme. Many of us are feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or disconnected. We're going through the motions of life, but not really living. Does that sound familiar. You're feeling burnt out, uninspired, or like life is just passing by without meaning. Maybe you're struggling to make the impact you know you capable of, or perhaps you're craving deeper connections with others. If any of this resonates that, I want you to know that change is possible, and it starts with the choices you make today. In this workshop, I'm going to share five simple, yet powerful steps that can help you reignite your passion, purpose, and joy. These are the same principles that have helped me and countless others reshape our lives from the inside out, and I know they can do the same for you. You'll walk away with actionable strategies to revamp your daily routine, find your true purpose, and create meaningful connections. And the best part, this workshop is completely free. These changes don't require massive overhauls. It's about making small, intentional shifts that can lead to big results. This workshop is more than just learning, it's about doing. I'll be guiding you through reflections and exercises that will help you start creating the life you've always dreamed of. Right here, right now. Go to www dot renew youu workshop dot com to access this at no charge and start building a life that's not just lived, but truly loved. See you there. How can hypnotherapy affect our memory? How does it work with memory?

Yeah, that's brilliant. Hey, I'm Jay Shatty and I wanted to invite you to a brand new interactive no charge workshop renew you that I'm eager to share with you. Over the years, I've worked with thousands of people across the globe, and I've noticed a common theme. Many of us are feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or disconnected. We're going through the motions of life, but not really living. Does that sound familiar. You're feeling burnt out, uninspired, or like life is just passing by without meaning. Maybe you're struggling to make the impact you know you capable of, or perhaps you're craving deeper connections with others. If any of this resonates that, I want you to know that change is possible, and it starts with the choices you make today. In this workshop, I'm going to share five simple, yet powerful steps that can help you reignite your passion, purpose, and joy. These are the same principles that have helped me and countless others reshape our lives from the inside out, and I know they can do the same for you. You'll walk away with actionable strategies to revamp your daily routine, find your true purpose, and create meaningful connections. And the best part, this workshop is completely free. These changes don't require massive overhauls. It's about making small, intentional shifts that can lead to big results. This workshop is more than just learning, it's about doing. I'll be guiding you through reflections and exercises that will help you start creating the life you've always dreamed of. Right here, right now. Go to www dot renew youu workshop dot com to access this at no charge and start building a life that's not just lived, but truly loved. See you there. How can hypnotherapy affect our memory? How does it work with memory?

Well, there's a that's a fairly controversial area, hypnosis. It can be a powerful thing. It can help people relive events and with not just remember, but relive them with the same kind of emotion, sort of like a flashback in PTSD, but under control, and then help people come to a new understanding of what happened. Now, does it mean that the hypnotic what we call age aggression, is an absolute, totally accurate recollection of what happened? Though? But then none of our recollections are, you know, they're a combination of what we experienced and put down in memory stores, and what we interpret and what we've learned later. But it can help people in a controlled way to get back to relive and remember things that they previously might not have been able to remember, in part because the emotions are so painful and difficult that one way to protect yourself is to just keep it dissociated, just put it away somewhere and not think about it. And hypnosis can be a way of cutting through that and helping people come to terms with situations that they previously hadn't thought about or didn't want to think about. So what I tell my patients and what is the case, is that hypnosis is no true serum. It's not like your memory is a tape recorder and you just rewind the tape and look at it. But it can be a way of dealing with the emotional implications of things you're remembering and get a better look at what happened. And one example, I don't know if you remember this, but not far from here, there's a town called chow Chilla where a school bus full of children was hijacked by two idiots who literally buried the bus underground in some an old mining pit, And they finally found the bus and really freed the kids, and the bus driver couldn't remember much about the guys who overtook the bus. So he was hypnotized, and he of course was traumatized too, and he had to help keep these kids alive in a terrible circumstance. And he recalled seeing this car overtaking the bus, and he remembered in hypnosis all of the numbers and letters of the license plate correctly. He got the order wrong, but he remembered it all, and that led to the arresting conviction of the two guys who did it. There are times when, yes, you can add new information that is accurate. It doesn't mean it's always accurate, but it's additional and often useful information.

Well, there's a that's a fairly controversial area, hypnosis. It can be a powerful thing. It can help people relive events and with not just remember, but relive them with the same kind of emotion, sort of like a flashback in PTSD, but under control, and then help people come to a new understanding of what happened. Now, does it mean that the hypnotic what we call age aggression, is an absolute, totally accurate recollection of what happened? Though? But then none of our recollections are, you know, they're a combination of what we experienced and put down in memory stores, and what we interpret and what we've learned later. But it can help people in a controlled way to get back to relive and remember things that they previously might not have been able to remember, in part because the emotions are so painful and difficult that one way to protect yourself is to just keep it dissociated, just put it away somewhere and not think about it. And hypnosis can be a way of cutting through that and helping people come to terms with situations that they previously hadn't thought about or didn't want to think about. So what I tell my patients and what is the case, is that hypnosis is no true serum. It's not like your memory is a tape recorder and you just rewind the tape and look at it. But it can be a way of dealing with the emotional implications of things you're remembering and get a better look at what happened. And one example, I don't know if you remember this, but not far from here, there's a town called chow Chilla where a school bus full of children was hijacked by two idiots who literally buried the bus underground in some an old mining pit, And they finally found the bus and really freed the kids, and the bus driver couldn't remember much about the guys who overtook the bus. So he was hypnotized, and he of course was traumatized too, and he had to help keep these kids alive in a terrible circumstance. And he recalled seeing this car overtaking the bus, and he remembered in hypnosis all of the numbers and letters of the license plate correctly. He got the order wrong, but he remembered it all, and that led to the arresting conviction of the two guys who did it. There are times when, yes, you can add new information that is accurate. It doesn't mean it's always accurate, but it's additional and often useful information.

I mean, that's so fascinating that sometimes our conscious memory doesn't hold onto these I expect with the subconscious calm And so is it that you're able to also relieve past stress and anxiety and to overwhelm Is it by reframing the narrative in hypnosis or hypnotherapy that would do? Is that the work that's doing? Could you give some examples? Y, Yes.

I mean, that's so fascinating that sometimes our conscious memory doesn't hold onto these I expect with the subconscious calm And so is it that you're able to also relieve past stress and anxiety and to overwhelm Is it by reframing the narrative in hypnosis or hypnotherapy that would do? Is that the work that's doing? Could you give some examples? Y, Yes.

That's very important. So there's a woman I saw who suffered an attempted rape as she was coming home just at dusk with her arms full of groceries, and this guy jumped her and she starts fighting with him. Eventually she fought him off. Actually he was trying to get her upstairs into her apartment, and the police came. She hadn't actually been raped. They thought, no big deal. She then had a full out seizure. She's had a basel or skull fracture from the fighting with this guy. So it was a terrifying, horrible thing. And she wanted initially to just remember more about what the guy looked like, and she couldn't remember much. It was getting dark, so I said, all right, here's how we're going to do this. We're going to take you back to this time. But your body is floating in a bath. You're safe and comfortable, and whatever you see or remember, nothing has happened to your body is now safe and comfortable. So I was reassuring her. And very often, when understandably, when people remember an event like that, they start reacting physically as though what were happening, And that's that feedback cycle of physical and mental hyper arousal that is very uncomfortable. So remind yourself at all times you're safe and comfortable. But I want you to picture him and she said, you know, I really it was getting dark. I really can't see much more about his face than I recall, she said, but I see something else. If he gets me upstairs, he's not just going to rate me. He's going to kill me. And so you might say, well, thank you, doctor Spiegel. You've now made her feel even worse than she did before. It was a more horrible experience than even she had imagined. And I said, well, you're looking at this on a split screen. Picture him on one side and what you see about him on the other side. I want you to picture something else. What did you do to protect yourself? And I have yet to meet a trauma victim that doesn't engage in some creative strategy to protect themselves. And she said, you know, he's surprised that I'm fighting that hard. He didn't think I would. And she'd been feeling very guilty that she got herself as badly injured as she was, And I said, you know, you saved your life. You know, think about what you did. You know, you just jumped and you defended yourself, and you saved your life. So she came away from that, on the one hand, seeing things that you might say, are even more upsetting than what she was already living with. But recognizing that she had done something to save her life and that changed her reaction to the whole event. You know, she saw it as something that was an attribute and aspect of herself that she hadn't recognized. And there's I don't remember the name, but there's a Japanese custom that when some very beautiful precious vase breaks when somebody drops it or something, when they glue it back together, they don't use glue, they use gold and they're there is what they're saying is it will now be even more beautiful than it was. And in a sense, she it was a terrible thing, but it was also she learned something wonderful about herself. And that's so you can help people relive an event in a very controlled way and at the same time learn something that helps you cope with it a lot better.

That's very important. So there's a woman I saw who suffered an attempted rape as she was coming home just at dusk with her arms full of groceries, and this guy jumped her and she starts fighting with him. Eventually she fought him off. Actually he was trying to get her upstairs into her apartment, and the police came. She hadn't actually been raped. They thought, no big deal. She then had a full out seizure. She's had a basel or skull fracture from the fighting with this guy. So it was a terrifying, horrible thing. And she wanted initially to just remember more about what the guy looked like, and she couldn't remember much. It was getting dark, so I said, all right, here's how we're going to do this. We're going to take you back to this time. But your body is floating in a bath. You're safe and comfortable, and whatever you see or remember, nothing has happened to your body is now safe and comfortable. So I was reassuring her. And very often, when understandably, when people remember an event like that, they start reacting physically as though what were happening, And that's that feedback cycle of physical and mental hyper arousal that is very uncomfortable. So remind yourself at all times you're safe and comfortable. But I want you to picture him and she said, you know, I really it was getting dark. I really can't see much more about his face than I recall, she said, but I see something else. If he gets me upstairs, he's not just going to rate me. He's going to kill me. And so you might say, well, thank you, doctor Spiegel. You've now made her feel even worse than she did before. It was a more horrible experience than even she had imagined. And I said, well, you're looking at this on a split screen. Picture him on one side and what you see about him on the other side. I want you to picture something else. What did you do to protect yourself? And I have yet to meet a trauma victim that doesn't engage in some creative strategy to protect themselves. And she said, you know, he's surprised that I'm fighting that hard. He didn't think I would. And she'd been feeling very guilty that she got herself as badly injured as she was, And I said, you know, you saved your life. You know, think about what you did. You know, you just jumped and you defended yourself, and you saved your life. So she came away from that, on the one hand, seeing things that you might say, are even more upsetting than what she was already living with. But recognizing that she had done something to save her life and that changed her reaction to the whole event. You know, she saw it as something that was an attribute and aspect of herself that she hadn't recognized. And there's I don't remember the name, but there's a Japanese custom that when some very beautiful precious vase breaks when somebody drops it or something, when they glue it back together, they don't use glue, they use gold and they're there is what they're saying is it will now be even more beautiful than it was. And in a sense, she it was a terrible thing, but it was also she learned something wonderful about herself. And that's so you can help people relive an event in a very controlled way and at the same time learn something that helps you cope with it a lot better.

Yeah, I believe it's known as kintsugi.

Yeah, I believe it's known as kintsugi.

Yes, that's right, that's right.

Yes, that's right, that's right.

Yes, they use that gold powder and things like that, and that you get these gold veins, yes, in the vases. That is so beautiful. And thank you for showing that extreme example, because I think it's It's so interesting because you could do that as a theoretical activity, but it doesn't it doesn't work like that. You know, you could say like what did you learn from this? Or how did you react? And sometimes it can be so painful to reflect on it in such a technical theoretical way. That's right, and being able to see yourself fighting and being brave and being courageous and how it affects. How does then that work with self hypnotherapy, like when you talk about your app revery, how does that work? Because you're not physically there to guide people? How do them people allow themselves to practice it on their own in a safe way, in a safe environment, in a way that it can.

Yes, they use that gold powder and things like that, and that you get these gold veins, yes, in the vases. That is so beautiful. And thank you for showing that extreme example, because I think it's It's so interesting because you could do that as a theoretical activity, but it doesn't it doesn't work like that. You know, you could say like what did you learn from this? Or how did you react? And sometimes it can be so painful to reflect on it in such a technical theoretical way. That's right, and being able to see yourself fighting and being brave and being courageous and how it affects. How does then that work with self hypnotherapy, like when you talk about your app revery, how does that work? Because you're not physically there to guide people? How do them people allow themselves to practice it on their own in a safe way, in a safe environment, in a way that it can.

Help well in many circumstances. Jay, it's you know, it's pretty easy, that is. You know, there was a reporter for the Times of London who started using Reverie. She had metastatic breast cancer and she was dealing with that very openly with her readers and talking about that, and she tried wherever she was having trouble sleeping, you know, she just couldn't stay asleep and would wake up anxious and with some discomfort. She said about after about five days she would just listen to my malifluous voice every night. And you know, I used to worry that the app wouldn't be nearly as good as being in the office with me, But then I thought, you know, if you wake up at three in the morning, you probably don't want me in your bedroom teaching how to go back to sleep. But you've got me there on the app, and it's interactive. So I asked, how are you responding? And depending on what you tell the app, you get a different instruction, so it is as much like being with me as possible. And she said, I woke up one morning after about five days of this. Rosamond Dean is her name. She's a lovely person and grave reporter, and she said, I looked at the clock sort of out of the corner of my eye, and I thought, oh my god, it's seven or nine am. It's the first time I've slept through the night in a year. And so people can learn to incorporate it into their own practices. Now, I would say that people dealing with post traumatic stress disorder and these severe things probably would benefit more from having a trained therapist helping them to do it. But once you sort of set them on that path, they can revisit it having learned what the experience is like, and they can help them. But more commonly we use it for more common problems for distress, insomnia, pain, focus, things that are widely disseminated, mental problems that we don't have nearly enough resources to help people with. So Reverie is a great way to say, try it for yourself and see what it feels like. And if you need the help of a professional along with it, by all means.