Hey everyone, Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow Now. Last month we put out an episode, a special one with my friend Lewis House, where we dived into relationships. We talked about whether it was possible to be with one person for your entire life, and whether you could really truly know someone deeply with very little time with them. Now this month we talked about another fascinating topic. Maybe you grew up with some thoughts around money, like money is the root of all evil, or maybe you grew up with a thought that money doesn't matter. Now we had a really fascinating conversation about whether you can have money and be spiritual, whether you can be doing good in the world and doing good for yourself. If you're someone who's ever been in that dilemma or been in that challenge, or even if I had some complicated relationship with money, I think this episode is going to be huge for you, so make sure you listen to this one share it with a friend too. I think we have so many issues around a mindset around money, which creates so many issues in our life with money. I hope you enjoy it. Me and Jay are here and a year ago, Jay and I were having conversations and we said, wouldn't they be interesting if we do a new series where Jay's got one of the biggest shows in the world. I've been doing my show for a long time, and we said, what if it could come together and do a different topic, a different theme, a different style of conversation where we're typically interviewing other people. And I said, let's create something where it's like awkward conversations or awkward therapy right where neither of us are therapists, but Jay has this incredible background from being a monk and really being a meditator for a long time in your life and having the mindset of this monk mindset, where I have the more of the athlete mindset, playing sports my whole life at a high level. And we said, what if we could bring our real world experience from these different perspectives come together and answer kind of challenging questions that we get a lot from our different audiences. And so we're creating this is part one of Awkward Therapy, and we've been trying to make this happen for a year. Now we're finally here. So what's the first question that we are going to answer, the first topic that you think we should really dive into it. I was going to stop Lewis though, by saying that the thing I love about this is we have these conversations anyway the time, all the time time. And so for those of you that don't know me and Lewis always make sure that we see to that at least once a month to have dinner together, go on a hike, hang out, and that will inevitably turn into this it's four hour conversation, conversation about life. Yes, and we just thought, how cool would it be to have those conversations that are uncomfortable, that are pressing on taboo topics, that are a bit thought provoking, pushing on the side of like, oh, that feels really awkward and uncomfortable because I think that people are thinking this but they don't have a place to say it. Yeah, and we and we say to each other and I'm like, I don't know if we could say this outside of this private conversation, or if we're gonna get a lot of backlash, or maybe I shouldn't have said that, Jay, you know, these these conversations that it's just like, how can we create a safe environment to have open conversations a level emmanual Acho has done with his conversations with a black man. Right, It's like, these kind of uncomfortable conversations. How can we just put these things out there and be open minded to it, not be so judgmental or critical. There's no right or wrong. But we're going to come together and have conversations to try to figure out some solutions to some of these bigger questions that a lot of people have. Yes, And obviously you've done a lot of work on your own, and you've interviewed and are friends with a lot of top elite individuals in different waks of life, myself as well, and so we wanted to bring it together and see where we can come up with. I love it. I'm excited. I'm very excited. We've been trying to make this happen for a year. So this is Awkward Therapy, Part one, and the first topic of discussion is what Yeah, So the first question that we're going to address today is can you be aspiring to be wealthy or make money and be spiritual at the same time. Yes, that's the first question. And I think a lot of people growing up, I think both of us probably growing up had these limits around people who had money and thinking are they good or bad people? Are they controlling? Are they mean to people? You know, if you have money, can you be a good person or have some spiritualness to you? Or is it only one or the other. You can either be mother Teresa and serve you know, you can only be ju and washed with people's feet in the you know, humble or your this money hungry individual, right, yeah, yeah, And I think that when I was growing up, at least I grew up in an environment where the people around me believed that if someone was wealthy, or someone was rich, that they must have done something dodgy or bad to get there, like illegal or sketchy or yeah it must be yeah, sketchy or illegal activities. Or they must have stabbed someone in the back, or they must have hurt someone, or they must be taking advantage of someone or manipulating someone, using, abusing, that's the only way they could have got there. And generally the idea that we all know of that money is the root of all evil. I think that was something that I was exposed to a lot as a child where a lot of people around me believed that, And we weren't wealthy, so we weren't in a position of financial strength. And often my extended family and others would look to people with wealth and if we would admire that or see something, they would be quick to like gampen that and be like no, no, no, no no, no, they they you know, they just do all this kind of stuff. And so I think there was always that negative view towards people who are rich? How do we how do we get to a place? So should we admire people that are wealthy? Should we? Should we look to that and say, it's really cool what they've built. Should we admire the accomplishment of amassing a ton of wealth? Or should we? Or is that not something to admire? As you always ask the best question this is like you know what I mean? Do you admire the results? For you admire the person they've become on the journey of accomplishing the results and how they the actions they had in order to get there. So this is my an interview Lewis. So I'm gonna make you out yes, And first I want to hear you all that I think this is interesting because I was going to ask you about it. No, I was going to have a conversation about out how you first, because I remember having this conversation years ago with you where you never thought that like making money was for you. You were just like struggling in New York City trying to make it and kind of live like months by month in a sense. And you told me you kind of had this limit around can I be spiritual and make a lot of money? Can I serve the world, make you know, wisdom go viral? And also is it okay to receive money? Is it okay to like charge what I'm worth or charge more for my services? So I remember having this conversation with you, and I was like, I vaguely remember what I said. I said, you know, I think you're doing a disservice to yourself by not generating more to be able to then hire more people to scale this message beyond. So you're not putting all the weight on your shoulders to be able to invest in more nutrition and food and comfortable sleeping space for yourself, all that stuff, so you can serve at a greater level. And so I think I'm answering the question. Whereas like, I think, if you're doing your life and you're being in service and being the best you can be as kind as possible to people on that journey, then I think it's both admirable and it's cool to see what you could create financially as well with the impact you're creating in the world. But it's all about how you show up on the day to day, how you treat people in the journey of amassing the wealth. I think that. But if you've generated a lot of money, but you've been in a jerk, or you haven't been in service except for to yourself only, then that's not something to admire as a whole man perspective. Yeah, yeah, that's my thought. I think that's beautiful. I love that and I remember that conversation as well. And I want to go back to that question you asked though, because it's such a it's such a powerful question that should we admire people who are wealthy? And I think we have to be careful about what we admire because what you admire will be what your actions aspire towards. So you'll start taking on those actions correct, You'll start taking actions and behaviors and decisions towards what you admire. And so I would say that I've always admired people who had a purpose. That's what I admire deeply when I meet someone, I say, there's two things that I admire, purpose and humility. If I meet someone who has purpose, they're willing to sacrifice, They're willing to do whatever it takes. They are mission driven, they want to serve the world. It's why I was always a fan of Viewers from before we even met and we knew each other, because I was like, Oh, here's a person who really wants to do good in the world. Here's a person who really wants to give And so I think that's the first thing I look for. And then the second thing I deeply admire is someone who has humilities, someone who I feel that they were really doing it from the goodness of their hearts. So I think for me, my admiration has always been for those two things. And I don't think I can tell someone whether what they admire is right or wrong. But I would say that if you admire something, your actions are going to start dictating your journey in that direction, right, And so you have to be careful what you admire, because that's what you're going to chase, right And so I would say that I like admiring purpose and humility because I think they are worthy of a pursuit. Sure, who are some people that we could think about, you know, who have a mass a lot of money, but also we feel like our purpose driven and in service to whatever their gift is. Who are some people that we can think about. Yeah, I wasn't thinking about this beforehand, but I'm just curious about who is living that lifestyle right now. Yeah, that's and that's a tough question. And I think I mean, i'd say we know, we know a few people in our own world. I think people that I've I've always admired and looked up to. Anyone from that, I'd say, that's a hard question. There are there are people like coming to my mind right now, but I'd probably say that I think Oprah's work has been phenomenal, like the conversation she's had that have shifted culture or shifted humanity on her TV show, because she's brought in an entertainment you know, TV show, but brought in the elements of healing, of prayer, of meditation, of spirituality of you know, creating consciousness in the planet, which I think is powerful. So she's bringing purpose to entertainment and she's built a massive empire. Financially. Eve been rewarded for that service exactly, exactly, and I think that's a great thing. I think that's the reason why I find this question so interesting, because if we're saying that spiritual people can't be rich, that means that spiritual people have to be poor. That means all the people that are rich are not spiritual. Right, is that the world we want to live in? If we want to live in a world where the wealthiest people or the most externally people who have the most resources are people who don't have spiritual intention, I don't know if that's the world I want my kids to grow up in or the world that I want to live in. I would rather grow up in a world where the most influential people had a deep spiritual intention. Yes, and with that spiritual intention, they were there. I guess we're rewarded financially for their level of impact and service. The challenge, The interesting thing is if you have that much humility, and you have that much spiritual intention towards your life and service. Does the money matter? Yeah? Does it does it matter as much like the more you earn, and does it really impact the individual's life if they have a million dollars or one hundred million dollars. That's the interesting thing also, Yeah, I mean I'm interested in hearing your point because the perspective you gave to me a few years ago when when you brought up that point, like I remember having like hundreds of millions of views and four months away from being broke, and it's yeah, and it was really true. Like I would say in meetings and people will be like, how many of years have you had now? And I would share that, and I was getting all this incredible feedback, and then I didn't have any money and I was literally gonna be broken four months. And what I realized was that that was negatively impacting the amount of impact I could have sustainably long term. And it's what you said to me that what if you're making money, but then you're investing that in your team. What if you're expanding and creating more opportunity like today, what we have teams across the world. You have your team here, I have my teams who are also living their purpose and we can only employ them because there's growth in this regard and then they're getting to have a deeper impact. So to me, it depends on what scale of impact you want to have, Like yeah, And I think also spirituality for me as harmony. It's having peace and inner peace. And if you're financially stuck, or you're financially struggling, or you feel trapped in financial debt and confusion of financial aspect of your life, then I feel like that's holding you back from your spiritual progress. So it's figuring out how to have harmony and balance in these areas of your life and your relationships and your health and your finances. For me, it's so key and going deeper spiritually in all of those. So they're all abundant. Yes, if one is not abundant, then are you maximizing your spiritual capacities of this lifetime? And so I think it's and I think so many of us grew up thinking that money was the root of valuable or people with money were bad or this and this whatever we thought of. But I think it's time to start changing the narrative and saying, Okay, I'm going to use money for good, and how can I make a commitment to myself to use some of my money to be in service of other people, not just all for myself or needing the flashy cars or things. We both like nice things. You like fashion and experiences. I love travel and adventure and healthy foods and investing in that. You know, we take care of our health. We have trainers and nutritionists these things. I think it's important so we have more energy and capacity to be of service. So I don't think there's anything wrong personally with making a lot of money or having focus on profit and purpose. But I think you want to have both so you can scale both. There's a lot of people who are so well intended who have big missions but don't know how to make money to serve their mission, and they're doing a disservice to their cause because they haven't figured out the skill of copyrighting or enrolling people in fundraising or sales, or some skill to bring in revenue to support the cause or the mission. And I think that's where a lot of nonprofits struggle with the years they're not thinking about all these other things they have to do to serve Yeah. Yeah, And I like that because I also want to clarify that for someone who is spiritual, or is conscious or is a whatever word you want to use, or even is in focused on personal growth or self development, their goal is not profit. Their goal is their purpose, their mission, their service. But they recognize that this is something that they have to think about and organize around in order to serve the purpose. So I think it's more about what's your top priority. Like, you don't wake up in the morning every day going how can I make more money today? Like that's not the mindset. You wake up in the morning going how can we serve more people? How can we have a greater impact? How can we help more people? And you realize that creating a profitable business or income is a part of that purpose. And I think that's the clarity that we need. Yeah, our measurement for our company is to serve one hundred million lives weekly to help them improve the quality of their life. Exactly. It's not to make X amounts, it's not to make a one hundred million dollars a year. But in the okay, how do we solve this this mission equation, which is we want to reach one hundred million lives weekly? What does that take well, most of it is through video right now, video through audio content, through social media, through books, through these different ways to scale a message. Right a different way to scale a message which takes money, resources, and a team to execute on these different challenges in business to reach that mission. And so it's thinking, Okay, we need more people to support on the team. That's going to take more money. So how do we make the money to hire people to serve the mission? And through the process of figuring out the purpose equation, how to solve that purpose conversation, then you need to figure out money that's tied to it. Yes, And I also want to make that point that you have to be really vigilant on this path so that you don't buy into your own hype. In the sense of it, you can convince yourself of anything, and you could convince yourself that you're serving people and you're doing this and doing that, and then you make loads of money and then you just convince yourself that it's all okay. And so, yes, you have to be more vigilant on this path. I don't think it's fair to say that, oh, it doesn't matter, it's all good. You've got to check. So you have to remain accountable in some way to make sure that you are continuing to do good with the greater facilities and responsibility as opposed to, Oh, I just made five million this year, twenty million this year, and I'm getting all these accomplishments and awards and recognition. So figuring out how to stay humble and confident purpose at the same time at the same time to not get carried away by an opportunity because of that. And so what I'm saying is that the reason why people think you either have to be spiritual or financially successful is because they think, well, if you're going down the spiritual path, money can be a distraction, or if you're going down money, then spirituality will distract you. And that is true. That is real. Like you can get really materialistic trying to be spiritual, sure, and you can become distracted from your materialism by being spiritual. That is true. But the goal of life is to live in that paradox, like in that middle point of trying to figure it out. So I often say to people like I don't consider that we've and I know we both feel this way. We haven't figured it out. We don't know we don't know everything about everything, but I'm trying to toggle with that because I believe that the truth is in the middle. The truth isn't in the either. All. Yeah, I think it's interesting. I want to talk about also how we have individually stayed accountable humble in our growth and our trajectory individually, because there's a one point where I had no followers. At one point you had no followers, and we had no business. And now both of us have you know, an ascension of audience, of opportunities, of money, of accomplishments, awards, things like that. I'll ask you first, and then i'll answer how have you question? But I'm curious how you have managed the rise to financial gain over the last five years and audience gain and recognition gain. How have you? And I'll answer myself, how have you personally stayed humble in the process of the rise financially That that's what I mean by the vigilance, like in the sense of you can't ever be complacent about your inner journey. So if at any point you think you're humble, you're automatically not humble. If you think you're so, I need to stop saying that to my girlfriend, I'm so yeah. If you think you're humble, you're not humble. If you think you've been really grounded, you're not grounded, because that automatically cancels out the other. But at the same time, I would say that for me, what are my anchors? And I think I look at them as anchors. We've been getting so many amazing reviews for The Daily Jay, my new daily guided meditation series on the car Map. You might have heard a couple of snippets on the podcast for a few weeks, so in case you haven't had the chance to check it out, I just wanted to share this review from Caitlin, an elementary school teacher from New Jersey. He's what she had to say. I have over nine years of experience in the American public school education system, including teaching throughout the pandemic. Over the past two years, I've seen extreme cases of anxiety and my students like never before. Many of these children have never experienced these feelings before, and most are not even sure of what they are feeling. My school district has spent a great deal of time focusing on social emotional learning SEL through this school year. We try to teach coping skills and focus on teaching kids how to deal with their feelings and become the best version of themselves. As someone who has also been experiencing the many anxieties of the world today, I have recently downloaded the car mapp thanks to my mom. My mom and I are big fans of yours, and once she heard that you will have seven minutes of Daily Jay each day, she encouraged me in doing this. Your meaningful ideas and meditation have quickly become part of my daily routine, so much that I've begun incorporating some of them into my sel morning meetings with my third graders. If you've ever wanted to meditate with me, join me on the car Map for the Daily Jay, a daily guided meditation where I'll help you find calm in the chaos, plant beautiful intentions for a happy, abundant life and simple steps for positive actions to get you closer to the life of your dreams. Meditate with me by going to calm dot com forward slash Jay to get forty percent off a Calm Premium membership that's only forty two dollars for the whole year for a daily guided meditation experience. The Daily Jay only oncong So my first anchor is impact is always greater than income. There is always more impact you can make, So I know that. For me, what I'm trying to do with the work I'm doing is video was an entryway into a journey of transformation. I wanted people to move from videos to listen to the podcast, to read the book, to come to events, to come to retreats with me in India, like I want to help people go as far on their inner journey as they possibly can. That's my personal mission. Is if someone just wants to watch a three minute video and it makes them feel better, that's beautiful. But if someone one day wants to come with me to India and live the life I lived and have a deep inward journey, then I want to be able to facilitate that. I'm still building that bridge two people's deeper selves. And the first thing that always humbles me and grounds me is I've got a lot of work to do. There's so much suffering in pain in the world. There is so much unrest in the world, there is so much trauma in the world. So we've got a long way to go. So all the awards and the views they give you confidence that you're going in the right direction, but you will know you're far away from the destination. That's one thing. I think. The second thing that really helps me is being around still spending time with my monk teachers who have very different vision as to what is valuable in life. Yeah, because they don't care about they don't care about material possessions or money, and they don't care and so they're not impressed by that. And so to be around people who don't admire certain things helps you lose taste for it. It's kind of like when I'm around yeah, Marcus Realius. The story is the Marcus Aurelius would walk through I guess the town and just have someone saying you're just a man when everyone was praising his name and kind of bowing to him and saying, you're like this guy right. Yeah. And it's having that accountability that you talked about people in your life that admire you for who you are, not for what you're creating in the world, right, for just your kindness, your heart, you know, your humanness, not the brand that you have built as an individual. I think that's so important to have my girlfriend Martha over Christmas. They did it. She's great. Over Christmas. They have this like little game that their family does where you pick out, like a word that's going to be your kind of your word of intention for the year, and it's supposed to be the word you need. Like everyone picks out a word and you hang it in an ornament that goes on like a tree, and then you look at it again the next year, and then you're always reminded of this word. And there's different words like confidence and self worth and intention and all these things, and can you guess what my word was? These are random, right, so you pick you don't know what it is, you pick it out at its random thing. Love. That's what we've been talking about. This humility. Oh it's humility. Yeah, it's so, it's humility. So she picked it out and you read it in front of life. There's like twenty of her family that I was like, humility. They're all like, yes, you need that, It's like no, but I was like, I was like, I feel like I'm pretty humble, but any funny just said that, like when you're saying you're humble, you need more of it. And I think the thing is it's always a great reminder whether you're super humble or not, it's a great reminder because life will bring things to humble you if you do not consistently stay humble in your life. There's injury, sickness, you know, attacks online, or controversy or whatever might come up in the world, and it's going to continue to come up. But as long as you have the accountability and the right people in your corner who call you out on your bs and also celebrate you when you're doing good things as well, I think that's important to have. I agree, I agree. I think life is a journey designed to disconnect you from your ego and dissolve your ego. If you think about life as that is the journey, and so as much as you willingly hand over of that journey, the less it's being pulled away. And what I mean by that is and it's it's what you said. When you really think about any success you have or any impact you've made, there is someone who has helped you get there, directly or indirectly. So for you to say I am self made, it isn't completely true because there was someone indirectly or directly that helped you get there. So if I say that, you know, people appreciate how I communicate ideas today or certain ideas, I have to thank my monk teachers who taught me that wisdom. Or if someone says, hey Jay, let you really resilient or you've broken through a lot of challenges, but then you have to respect the people that tried to pull you down, and so it gave me the opportunity to overcome adversity exactly. And so either way, there have been people who have helped you get to where you are, and so you can't claim the ego of I did this all myself. And I think there's also something to be said for humility and receiving acknowledgment from others and to yourself, yeah, and celebrating what you've also created. I love the acceptance award of Snoop Dogg where he says something like, you know, and I want to thank me for all the late nights, all the early mornings, all the hard work, and I thank me for never giving up on me. And I think there is this over humility sometimes too, where people are like, well, I'll be like, hey Jay, it was so amazing what you did, and when people say it was nothing I did. It wasn't me, you know, I get to praise everyone else. I think there's a a spiritual way to receive, yes, accomplishments and be humble in your thank you, graceful in your thank you. Receive it as well, because you are showing up in a big way, you can be humble and also gracious in your confidence. Yes, I think that's a great, great point, and I completely agree with you. I don't think it's again, it's never either all. I think that's the point that whenever anyone tries to make it is like should it be humble or should it be confident? It's like be both? Should I be successful or should it be spiritually? Be both? Like? You can be both like, and we need to be both because sometimes you are going to need to. I agree. Like, when when you reject praise what happened or genuine acknowledgement, what ends up happening is you lose the opportunity for someone else to express gratitude, to give, to give, you block that ability for them to get You're robbing someone's gift. Yes, and that's a no, no no. We'll talk about a whole nother session on the law of attraction and the hustle. Yes, but there's something to be you know. And people that make money know how to receive because they receive money and there's a flow also, there's a flow to it. They the ones who are really good, don't hoard it, right, They let it in and they let it out. It's like a cycle. And they're investing it and they're spending on people and they're building things. And they don't say, no, I'm not ready for money, don't give it to me right now. It's the same thing, like you don't want to block someone's acknowledgement or praise or opportunities and say I'm not ready for it. Yeah, like, take it in, receive it, be graceful, and you can also be humble at the same time. Yeah, use it as fuel. Don't let it go to you ahead, right right, But you use it as fuel. So if someone gives you praise, you go, oh, thank you so much. That's amazing. Now I'm going to use that to work harder. Yeah, right, But you're not just using it to go Okay, it's going through my head now I'm going to feel that you're using as fuel and so and I think that's why it's everyone needs someone accountable to them. Yeah, whether that's your partner, I know, Roddy, is that for you? Probably? Martha's that way for me where she will celebrate me, but she also just gives me great feedback if I'm if she thinks I'm being you know, over the top on something, which I never try to be. But yeah, it's just even just her, just her being there as a reminder to stay humble. Yeah, you know, even if she doesn't have to say anything, it's just like, Okay, I don't need to be boasting anything. And having someone that you are inspired by in your life that can be that accountability is so key. I think having that community, not everyone that just says you're incredible all the time, but someone who keeps you grounded and also supports your growth. Yeah. Yeah, for me. The interesting thing going back to our original question is money and spirituality. Yeah, like, and going back to in context of this is if you're proud of something that can be taken away, it will always leave you empty. So I mean proud of your money, correct, if that's all you're proud of of what you've done, and ultimately, whether you die with it or you lose it before you die, it is going to go somewhere else. It's going to be transferred, even if that's to your children or to anyone else. Then that can be a very scary place to live. It can be a fearful place to live. But you can never lose the impact you've made on people totally like that, you know. And I think that's what I've noticed, is that purpose is the only thing that keeps giving to you because it's such a like it's it's the only thing that can give to you without needing anything else. And here's something else that I'm thinking about. Please, there are a few people that I know, and I think you know as well, who have made a lot of money, but they still don't have that fulfillment inside or remember their relationships are off or their health is off. But there are others who have made a lot of money and they are so fulfilled with so much joy because it's purposeful money. It's money made with a mission in mind. And I think that's what we need to be thinking about on our journeys, is the money we're making. And I think money is great to have. It helps solve a lot of problems in our lives. But it doesn't solve the problem of fulfillment. Yes, and it doesn't solve the problem of inner peace. It might solve some peace, it might be able to help pay for challenges to overcome, but it doesn't bring us ultimate inner peace by itself. Correct unless we figure out purpose and mission as well. Yes, money gives financial security, yes, and financial stability and financial safety, which are all very important things. But financial stability does not equate to mental peace. Right. Like, we know people financial security, but they are not mentally peaceful. They're emotionally unstable, correct, because those two things don't correlate. Same with emotional stability does not lead to financial security. Right. I know people who are really emotionally together, but they may not have figured out how to organize their business with their life to facilitate that which I was in that bucket for a long time in my life, and so we've got to start seeing them. It's just two different pursuits. If I buy a ticket to LA I'm not going to get to New York. And if I buy a New York I'm not going to get there. You've got to pay for that ticket that you want, and they're two different things. An emotional regulation and emotional peace and making money are two different skill sets, yes, and you have to you have to study and practice the art of emotional regulation, of emotional peace, of inner peace. It has taken me decades to get to a place where I feel inside right. And I know you you went off to go on this journey when you were twenty one, twenty two or something because you didn't feel that early on in your life, and you were inspired by the monks that you met who came and taught and you're like, I want to go learn this and have this in my life. So I think it's two separate journeys. It's learning. And some people make money naturally and it comes easier to them, and other people are just peaceful, joyful people naturally. I would say, Roddy's like one of these just peaceful, joyful people naturally just in her nature, where other people struggle and have more depressed thoughts and they're more stressed out. And so it's a each r a practice, and they can both be very challenging, but so worthwhile pursuing because when you master both, it gives you even more peace. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I have friends that make you know, I have friends that work their job, make their money, and then spend all their evenings and weekends with their family, and they're really happy because they know what their purpose is. And then I have friends that have all the money in the world that are unhappy. But then I all said the opposite, where I have friends who are doing their ninety five job and spending time every day and they have time, but they're not happy for stress. Yeah, and then I have friends that are leaving their purpose making out somebody that are happy. And so we need to stop equating money and happiness in the same conversation, or money and success. They just provide different things. And like you beautifully said, they are different skills and we have to decide. Each one has to decide what type of life we want to lead. And I think both are I don't know, you'd tell me both are equally as important to learn at the same time, because if you're putting your energy on making money, but then you can't sleep at night because you're emotionally stressed and you have no peace. But you figure out the money thing, your health is going to go to crap and your relationships are going to go to crap. If you're just zend out all day and you don't spend time on figuring out the money side, then you're broke, you know, and there becomes some stress around not having things to buy and pay for and going month a month that has an element of stress. So they're both so important to be working on together, I think correct. I'm a big believer that emotional regulation is the key in general because it just makes you less reactive in all life situations. But finding a way to make money within a meaningful pursuit is so fulfilling as well. Yeah, it doesn't feel like work when you're doing something meaningful and making your money around it. Yeah, And if you can't do that yet, I think that's one of the biggest issues too, is that doing a job just because it pays the bills and takes care of what you need and then having time to figure out your passions and what else you want to do, that's a beautiful place to start. That's where I started. I think that's probably where you start too. It's like you start with just a base. And I think too many people hate on their current life because they want this passion life. But hating on your current life is just training yourself to hate on your future life. And I think we don't recognize that you'll never be happy where you're at. Yeah, and I'm not saying you you're gonna love like I would say. I've done so many jobs in my life that I honestly did not love, but I choose. And I did everything from stacking shelves at grocery stores to working in retail to delivering newspapers. I calculated the other day, I've been working now for twenty years because I started working when I was fourteen thirty four now, so we're working for twenty years and I've done I would say that up until six years ago, most of the jobs I did I didn't want to do. But all of them I learned to take a skill that I used today. And so now when I look back, I'm like, oh, well, being a delivery boy told me discipline because I had to do all the streets in my area without any reciprocation, in the rain and lugging around this like, you know, delivering news thing, which it didn't make me cool. I missed out and hanging out with friends. What everybody taught me discipline, And I think it's you know, I had a lot of those jobs as well, where I was a bouncer on the weekends at a nightclub the weekest, so I was a truck driver during the day for I only did this for three and a half months and I was like, I can't do this anymore. Truck driver for six hours a day. I would drive a massive U haul, kind of the biggest truck before you had to get a special license for a truck, so I think, imagine that the biggest U haul. And I was driving for NAPA Auto Parts, which is like a car manufacturer. And I would drive two and a half hours from Columbus to Cincinnati, Ohio, and two and a half hours back every day and transfer these autoparts from one truck to another and bring others back up to Columbus. And the truck only went fifty five miles an hour all the way the pedals of metal, and so I was just in the slow lane. This was before like really cell phones and all these different things. And I would do that during the day, and I would do the bouncing on the weekend to make some money. And I remember thinking like this is not for me, this is not what I was born to do. Yeah, but I think in those situations, just like you had in your situations, it's figuring out how to be purpose in the thing you're doing, be joy, be fun in those moments while you're thinking of like the next thing to get out of or how to get out of that into the next thing what you want to be doing. And you know, have you ever been to a restaurant where you have a waiter a waitress that's just like full of light, full of joy. They're so grateful, they bring a smile to your face, They remember the order perfectly, They just like want to make the experience incredible. Yeah, you always tell these stories about getting them getting hired and then going on to some other career because they brought the joy, They brought purpose to their career, to their job which maybe they didn't really want to be at ye, but that's how you get to the next place. It's by bringing that energy to the thing you don't enjoy and being purposeful. Anyways, I think if we could start doing that, you're gonna be a magnet for opportunities to finding your purpose. I love that there was we were just in Rwanda and there was a I don't drink alcohol, but I was with a group of people who were and so there was a somalier who was explaining the wine expert was like telling everyone what's in the wine and all that kind of stuff, and the person I was weird and encouraged him to he was he was from Africa. And the person who was leading the retreat asked the person to explain their journey to how they became a somalier at this beautiful hotel that we were at, and he sat down and he told us his story and it's exactly what you said. Yeah, literally cool. So he was saying that he worked at a restaurant. He was waiting and then he was asked one night to like choose a bottle of wine for a table, and so he chose a bottle of wine for that table, gave advice, and he was really good at it because he'd been doing his YouTube research and learning on the side. And he said that when he gave it to this person at the table, they asked him why this wine, why not the other one, Like they were really quizzing him, and because he'd done his research, he knew what to say. He said that at the end of the meal, that person who was sitting at the table, gave him a car so cool, and when he looked into the next day, that was the owner of the brand of wine that he gave. No way, that is cool and that person deceptive. If you want to train to be somewhile, then you know, we'll put you into training school. Everything that's cool and it's amazing, Like you know, he was so beaming when he's telling the story. He's so happy doing it. And for him it was a big change because he was saying that the family he grew up in would have not been happy with him working in alcohol, but it was his passion. It was what drew him there. Right, It's just those kind of stories that melt my heart. But if he showed up stress that he was going to a job that he didn't like and sank, I really don't want to be here. I'm not doing the thing I want to do exactly, and let me just get through the night, let me do the bare minimum, let me show up and just get my check and go back. If we go through life in those moments where we don't want to be doing something, nothing good is going to happen for us. We're not going to create an energy that attracts financial abundance. And that's not a spiritual practice. Showing up being kind of half lazy, half disinterested in just going through the motions, that's not a spiritual practice either. A spiritual practice from my perspective, is being present in a moment and giving your fullest joy, giving your light, giving your heart to the moment. Yes, that's a spiritual practice. I'm not saying you're gonna be able to have the energy to do that every moment of every day, but it's doing your best to get back to the moment and say, how can I be of service to this moment? How can I use my light? How can I use my gift whatever that is in this moment to serve absolutely? What would you say is yeah, what would you say as a spiritual practice for you kind of day to day? Yeah? I think. I think the spiritual practice is how can I truly treat everyone I meet as an equal, as a human? How do I see them through equal vision? How do I not talk down to someone or talk up to someone? How do I truly allow each person to space to express themselves and express myself to connect with them? And if I'm going to a place of work. If I'm going to a place of wherever I am, how can I show up believing that my positive energy and what I put out in the world will some way come back to me. Yeah, it's hard to believe that, but it will. I've seen sometimes, you know, it's like an investment, Like sometimes you're mak an investment and you don't see the benefits till twenty years later, but you're so grateful for it twenty years later because it almost surprises you. And that's how the world works. Like there's very few things that are instant in life. I mean, I would say that you probably feel you're living off of habits and disciplines you built totally. It's not like it's not like what you're winning in now is what you just did yesterday. Like it's stuff that you like when you you know, we're playing sport and developing as an athlete, like all of those skill sets are useful today. Absolutely, even though you're not doing the same thing. Absolutely. Yeah, it's similar to my athletic background, which you were an athlete as well, but you're more trained. You were the athletes of the mind, right, you were the spiritual athlete. You're getting up at four am, sleeping on the ground, you know, just being of service all day, learning, teaching, meditating, being with your monk community. And you had to go through adversity on a daily basis. Essentially, you had to do uncomfortable things and be positive about it. In football, when you're doing three of days, it is not fun and one hundred five degree humidity and heat, showing up, putting pads on and getting smashed over and over again for two hours at a time, three times a day, it's not fun. Yeah, But the coaches ingraining you added and how you show up for others and your team and the team and if you are missing the play, you're letting the whole team down. And it's how each individual shows up with a positive attitude makes the entire mission of the team move forward in progress. Yeah. But if you're stressed and overwhelmed and allowing the adversity of the moment to hold you back, then the team's going to be held back. Yeah. I think you did that in the monk community by constantly being a service, even if you're only getting two hours asleep and in the heat all day serving, you know, just asking for food and the same thing in life and you're using that discipline now from ten fifteen years ago. Well, I think what I see in you is that I didn't know you when you were an athlete back then, but I feel like the thing I know it's about you is that you're always bringing the most amount of value to everything you do. That's the goal. And whether I was when I spoke to your master mind a few years ago, I saw how much value you grow your community, and I saw how my success all of them have had and the journeys and careers they've had. And I want to talk about this, and I think it'll be useful for us to answer this together. I think one of the biggest issues that people have. So let's say first they recognize, as we both clarified that we realize that money is an energy, that it's a resource. Money is not good or bad. It's defined by how you use it, and if your goal is to use money for a higher purpose and for a mission, it can be a beautiful thing. You've established that. I think one of the biggest things that people struggle with, and this is what I wanted us to talk about, is people struggle with the idea of how do I charge for what I'm worth. Where I feel uncomfortable to charge for my services. I know coaches feel this way, I know therapists feel this way. I know people are in the service business feel difficult to feel like they're allowed to feel comfortable to charge for their service. Is because it's assumed that if you're doing good for the world, you should be doing it for free. And so let's address that mindset. Because I think a lot of people might be watching right now going listen jam with you, but I just feel really unconfident about saying this is how much my services are worthy. And so I'll go first because I bought it up. Yes, but I think it's the idea of Like the first thing I say to people is we know this that when people are paid for something, including when I pay for something, I take it more seriously. I'm more likely to show up and be my best, and I'm more likely to complete. A great example of us is a personal trainer. Absolutely. The reason I have that is because I know I've already paid for his time. I already know I've paid for an hour, and if I cancel, I'm going to lose that money. And if I show up and I'm not full energy, then I'm not going to get that much out of it. Right. If I haven't paid someone, I may or may not go to the gym. If I feel like it or not, I probably won't turn up. If I turn up to them, I might just be on my phone the whole time. By the way, if you're going to gym, you probably paid membership too. So the idea of the transaction of money forces a higher commitment and energy from me included, yes, and from everyone absolutely, and so of course it's all based on affordability and privilege and access. Of course, like I'm not telling to be able to pay more than they have, but the idea that when we exchange money for something, we value it more. And I think our friend Dean Graciosi says, you pay attention to what you pay for, and the more you pay for it, you pay more attention to the thing that you've invested in or signed up on. If you buy a house and you spend a lot of money on that house, you're probably going to make sure the house is in good order and you're going to fix it up and you're going to treat it well. You buy a new car, same thing. You're gonna not trash it, at least not right away hopefully. But if you buy a car for a few hundred bucks, you may say, if it hits a wall or if this is scratched, like, who cares because I didn't invest that much in it. So we pay attention to what we pay for are And I think you're doing a disservice to yourself and you're creating a model to everyone around you that you're not worth receiving of money if you're not willing to charge or eventually charge more when you can deliver more value for that. And I think it's important to we'll probably talk about this more and another session about you know, a law of attraction and the hustle and grind and then things around that. But I think when I think we should be constantly striving to develop more skills, add more value, and then in that process be willing to charge more. Yeah, otherwise we're staying stagnant. And I think you just hit a nail on the head. It's that you're charging for your skills that you've developed, and you're not charging for the time. You're charging for the time it to build those skills and the value can deliver with the speed of a delivery hole. Correct, correct, Because I think a lot of people feel like, oh, I can't charge that much for an hour, or I can't charge that much for X, Y or Z. But it's like you're not charging for that hour. You're charging for all the hours that it took to build that exactly. And I think a good example for my personal life is I'm paying for a therapist slash coach right now. That's I pay a kind of a lump sum for six months for a certain amount of sessions. But if I was to average the sessions out and call it per session rate, it's around seven hundred bucks a session, right for an hour and a half, which is probably the highest amount of any therapist out there. Ye should therapist maybe one hundred and fifty, maybe two hundred and fifty on the high end, some of the celebrity therapists or five hundred dollars a session. So I'm paying above that, and I'm paying it because I'm getting incredible results from my inner piece, and it's worth it. It's worth it. You was investing in your future, investing in my future forever, and the skills that I'm developing that will allow me to have greater peace in my intimacy, in my relationships, greater my friendships, greater harmony in my business, and allow me to soar financially and with my mission. So it's like, it's all around a good investment, correct, even if it's a three times more than the average, right for me, it's worth it. Yeah, yeah, And other people that may not make sense based on where they're at, and I get it, But there is an investment that will make sense for you. And maybe it's not a hiring a therapist or a coach, but it's going through a workshop online that you pay something for, buying a book, buying a blood something else, listening to our podcast either one of those. It's like, yeah, exactly. But you're investing time. Yeah, you're time. You're investing time to learn something and then investing in applying it and testing it. And I think that's just as that's valuable as well, and I want to address that. It is by the way I feel awkward talking about money. We will feel awkward to talk about money because we were told that it's a taboo in society. Yeah, you never ask someone their wage, You never asked them how much money they make. You don't tell someone what your bonus was this year. So we've created a taboo in society to talk about money, and that's why most of us feel really uncomfortable, where we'd rather not have that conversation. But the problem is then we spend all of our mind thinking about money, because then we're like, well, they didn't pay me enough, or they don't value me, or I should have got a bigger bonus, or I should have got a better promotion, or my salary should be this. And so by you pretending or not even pretending, by you feeling uncomfortable to address money, you actually end up spending more time obsessed with the lack of it. Yes, And I think that's the pain, that you're actually obsessing over the lack of money because you're scared of talking about it. And I know I've been there, Like I know what that feels like. And I think some things that people can think about as they leave this conversation is I'm so glad you said this, because I was probably going to forget this. A mentor of mine early on when I was broke, said, it comes to you when you're ready for it, and I was like, I feel pretty ready to have some money because I don't have any. I feel ready and he's like, it'll come to you when you're ready for it. And I didn't understand it. When you're lacking, it doesn't make sense. But it understood it as money started to come to me because I was like, I wasn't ready to manage the responsibility, the weight. I didn't have the knowledge on how to receive money, how to manage it, how to pay off credit cards and debts, how to automate things like I would have blown it because I didn't understand it enough. So what you said right there is so important that we need to have conscious conversations about money and be willing to be uncomfortable with your friends or family members that maybe you've never talked about money and start talking about it. I love normalizing the conversation so it's not scary, so it's not bad. So it's not this I don't know, I don't want to talk about it, it's scary. If you know these things. Letting go with the shame around money conversations and do it appropriate setting with the right people, but be willing to have these conversations. You won't feel the pressure of it as much, and when it comes, it's not going to feel like you have to hold on to it as much, and you'll just be able to naturally flow in the world more with open conversations. So I think what you said there is so important we need to do. Yeah, And I think that the reason we feel uncomfortable is because we've never been trained, And the reason why we decided to do this is because we're trying to have the uncomfortable conversation so that hopefully all of you feel encouraged. I've always found our friend David Buck. Yes, he has some really great stuff on Like I remember reading his stuff years before I met it about how much money to spend on rent and how much money does it save and how to do this like when you first have like an income from a job. And I found that so useful because no one in my life has ever talked to no one talked about it. So if you're scared of talking about money, if you're scared of figuring out how to charge, and by the way, if you're someone who in your heart goes jee, I feel like I'm somewhat taking advantage of someone when I ask them for money, bring more value, bring more value, over deliver, give your heart, and then you won't feel that way because you realize you're having a genuine impact on them. I realize when we launched some of our courses and programs, we studied how they improve people's lives, and we saw that someone in our community has been part of Genius for ninety days, their happiness goes up by and we were like, that's incredible, Like that's beautiful, right, And so when you start to measure impact, Yes, measure your impact. Don't just create something and hope that it works. Measure your impact. You'll feel more confident. Really take the time to create an offering that genuinely improves people's lives. You'll be more confident, and then ultimately keep checking in with yourself absolutely to check am I truly delivering or not? Yeah. One of the things we do every Monday today is Monday our team Calls, is we talk about what are some of the impact we're aching on all the different programs and products and from the courses to the podcast, like what the testimonials of the week. We have a big spreadsheet with all the testimonals that come in different people on the team read out what they kind of have ownership over here the biggest testimonials of the week, and it constantly reminds us why we're doing what we're doing. So don't neglect hearing testimonials, hearing the impact you've made on your friends' lives, or if you have a freelance, gig or a career, how you're being of service with your talent and your skills. You are living you know, when you live in purpose, that is the fuel to keep going. You love it. I love it when people come up to us on the street and say, I'm listening right now this. I read your book. It helped me here two years ago. I found you and I got it into this incredible relationship. I got out of this challenging relationship or gott in shape because of you or what you shared. It's fuel for our purpose to have more energy and go you know, bigger at it. So be willing to receive that as well and start having these conversations. What else shall we leave people with as we wrap up episode one? I think my big takeaway from today's conversation is we all have to evaluate our relationship with money. Do you have a positive relationship do you have a negative relationship, Do you have a neutral or void relationship? Most of us don't realize that we all have a relationship with money. If you don't talk about money, that's like not talking to someone, right, That's what it is. If you don't talk about money, then your relationship is you don't communicate with that person. Then you can have negative communication, you have negative thoughts about that person, you have negative feelings towards that person, or you have positive feelings and healthy feelings. Figure out your relationship. And the quote or the wisdom that changed my relationship with money was this beautiful thought by Martin Luther King, which was that the people who love peace, and I believe I'm a person who loves peace, I believe you are. That the people who love peace need to learn to organize themselves as well as those who love war. Absolutely, And what I realized was that the challenge with spirituality or positivity in the world was that it was not organized enough. An organization requires finances, businesses, structure, operations, implementation, and so to me that was something that really made me realize that if I truly believe I want to positively improve the world, I have to think about money. It's not my goal, it's not my obsession, it's not my priority, but I can't ignore it because if I ignore it, it's going to negatively impact of There's another like viral or quote online that says it's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war, and I think it's we need to train ourselves to be prepared for the financial world, for the ups and downs of the financial world, for just the world in general that has a lot of ups and downs, and be prepared for all of it with a spiritual practice and a financial practice as well. I think that's the key so that you're not stressed when life comes at you with war, because there will be some war at some point, whether it be metaphorical or spiritual war, or we're on something right, and for us to be prepared on both financially spiritually and be working on both of those will be so key. So if you guys enjoyed this conversation, let us know in the comments below and tell us what topic you want us to go over next in this series with me and Jay. Also make sure you check out Jay's show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, on Purpose with Jay Htty may Sho check it out subscribe their subscribe over on Jay's YouTube channel as well. Below we'll have all this stuff linked up. We're gonna be doing a series of this back and forth, so the next episode will be on Jay's show and then we'll come back here on the School of Greatness. So make sure you subscribe to Jay so you can get all the content we do together in this series where we're covering uncomfortable you need taboo topics around life. Thank you so much for listening to that episode. If you want more of those, tag us on Instagram let us know what you learned, what you took away. I can't wait to do more conversations like this, and thank you, Thank you so much for listening to On Purpose.