Today, I’m speaking to Rayna Greenberg and Ashley Hesseltine who share their thoughts on dating and relationships. They take turns in talking about their best and worst dates, the general struggles most women have while dating, how to get through a difficult breakup - the do’s and don’ts - and the subtle dating red flags that are often missed.
Rayna and Ashley of the "Girls Gotta Eat" podcast. The podcast was launched in 2017 and has since become a popular destination for listeners who enjoy discussions about dating, relationships, sex, and women's experiences in these areas. Each episode features the two hosts discussing their personal experiences, sharing dating and relationship advice, and answering listener questions. The podcast is known for its humorous and relatable approach to these topics, as well as its frank and honest conversations. In addition to offering advice, the hosts also interview guests who are experts in various aspects of dating, relationships, and sex, such as therapists, sex educators, and relationship coaches. Overall, "The Girls Gotta Eat" is a lively and entertaining podcast that provides a unique perspective on the ups and downs of dating and relationships for women.
You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon.
What We Discuss:
Episode Resources
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You just get blindsided, broke up with out of the blue, and he's like, did you do this? You do that? And you're like, why didn't you tell me when those things were happening? Because feedback is important. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. And I am so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book Eight Rules of Love is out and I cannot wait to share it with you. I am so so excited for you to read this book, for you to listen to this book. I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it already, make sure you go to eight Rules of Love dot com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep, or let go of love. So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book. And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour Love Rules. Go to Jay shelldytour dot com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more. I can't wait to see you this year and so I've been loving learning from anyone who has insights, tips, tricks about dating, about love, about relationships, and today's guests are going to give us a lot of that. I'm talking about the incredible podcasters behind Girls Gotta Eat, a top comedy podcast about dating, intimacy, and relationships hosted by Ashley Hesseltine and Raina Greenberg. Rainer and Ashley candidly discuss any and all dating related topics, ranging from fetishes to finances, and bring in regular guests including therapists, comedians, doctors, and authors. Most recently Raina and Ashley, I've launched a new company and I'm so excited to interview them right now. The company's called Vibes Only, and they're in the studio right now. Ashley and Raina, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much. So it's such a love intro. You so much, lovely interview, so great interview in which she really gets off on love that. Wait yeah, wait till we flip in and we get to hyper love language. So thank you for having us. No, I'm so excited. As I said, my whole team are huge fans. Anyone that I told I was going to see you today. They were like, oh my gosh, wait, please say hello. So there was so much energy for us to be together. And I've definitely felt like I've been trying to do more and more of this where and I think we'll see this when we post about it and talk about it. I've been trying to sit down with people that people don't expect me to sit down with and that people don't expect to sit down with me, and I think that's what creates this, like really beautiful synergy in getting to know people. So I want to get to know you both today. I also want all your advice because my audience is constantly looking for advice and tips and tricks. But I want to start off with just by saying, how's your day been so far? What have you been up to today? Anything fun? Driving through the hills, about taking a tour. But we just moved here, I mean I say moved loosely, but we're going to be here for a few months, maybe permanently. So wow, congrats paying a new part of LA and meeting you, and we were we actually have had a pretty exciting day work wise. We booked some really fun stuff interviews, we have to go back to New York for some things, and it's been a good day. Yeah. We're planning our next leg of our tour London, where you're from, so we're excited to go there. We'll out that soon. Um. Yes, So we did a lot of really fun stuff because we're releasing really fun things for Valentine's Day far our Intimacy company. Yes, yeah, it's been a great day. That's feeling good. Where are you staying right now? You said you're in a good area. Was the specifically where you're saying? I'm in West Hollywood? Okay? And Reynos she can speak for self, but she's in Veness. Yeah. I love Venis. Yeah. The first time I and my wife came here for work, we stayed in Burbank, and my wife was just like, oh my gosh, there's nothing to do in LA because we thought Burbank. And then the second time we came, we stayed in West Hollywood and oh, this is cool. I can go to the gym, I can get creation. Yeah, and then by the third time she was like, Okay, yeah, we can move that. So it took take a process. It's a hard city to know. And I came here so many times, and it's just I feel like most cities we go to, like Charleston or Austin or Chicago, I can know it in two days. I'm like, I get it. But La is so big and so vast or so many areas it takes a minute. But we're really loving it. We've been here for two weeks. It's just been really amazing to it. I went to the beach for a sunset last night. Yeah, and it's just been really nice. I love that. I want to start dating here. So we're excited about each other other people. Okay, okay, got it all right, let's let's let's dive into day let's go come out. Yeah. Yeah, when we said we're moving to La, everybody's like together, we're like adults. No, but yeah, let's let's talk about that. When when it comes to daying, I want to hear, what's been the best day you've ever been on? Oh? My god, the best? So for me, like what defines a good day. It's not like the activity necessarily, She's how hard I'm laughing with somebody, and then I want to go to like the next place, in the next place, the next place, and just like drink, dinner or whatever. Um. I had a really crazy date that was on my first date in New York City ever fifteen years ago. This guy like picked me up in a car, which is crazy. You don't do that New York. And he took the red flag yeah, and he took me to Boodha Bar and we just had this like crazy over the tip of New Year. I was like, I can't believe I'm doing it. I'm in New York. This is a new experience, a new place. Is hot. Guy, it's so cool. We just laughed on it and we drank. We drank a lot, and then we took a car. We left his car. We took a car to the airports. We decided we're going to fly to the Caribbean on the on the first date. And we went to the airport. Were you on once sober? We went to We drove out to New York and we got to me over York. It was one o'clock in the morning and they were like, no flights fly out right now, and we were to go back home. If you find yourself in an airport in New Jersey on a first date, something has gone all right, you know. Mean though I like a birth was a little crazy. So I was like, this is the coolest person I ever met. Also, I was twenty one, but I just like somebody who like surprises me. It's fun, good conversation. That was like a fun date for me. What's your best date? I mean I had these dates when I first moved to New York that were just epic, where you're, you know, in a basement dancing and then you go have like saki and sushi somewhere and you end up with late night tacos, you start on a rooftop, like all these epic dates. Like I really loved dating there and going out with guys that were like showing me the city. I mean, I've been in New York a million times, but I always say it's a really great way to get to know a city is to have people take you out. So guys would take me all these places and I would take dates there later and just act like I was a school girl who knew my way around the city so well. But I mean, it's just it feels like it's so obvious, Like the best date I've ever been almost probably with like the person I fell the most in love with, Like the first date that was like so casual. It was a day date where it was probably gonna roast me for this, but he loves a date, you know. I like showed up. Though I showed up, he was already eating because he was nervous. I was like, this is off to a terrible start, you know, and it was like should have been so bad. But you're sitting there with someone where you're like, oh, this is the real deal. So it's like, yeah, it's quarry as it sounds. That's probably the best date where you leave it and you're like, okay, this is a probably yeah, all right, what's the worst date you've ever been? Because I know you're gonna have what's that? Yeah? I try to not look at any like so many of our listeners are like I don't want to go on Baddy. So it's like at least you walk away with a story. So that's like the positive is that even if you're a day as long as you feel safe, if somebody's I bring a little bit like crazy and an idiot, I'll stay. Oh I'll see this through. Um. The worst date I think I've been on was right when we started the podcast. I had met this guy at a bar a few nights ago, and he had asked me out, so he'd met him before. This is not like an online date m. We picked this dive bar to go too because they were supposed to the best burgers. He said he'd never had them. I was like, Oh, we gotta go. There'd be such a fun date. He didn't confirm the date the day of, and I was like, this is already like kind of rude. I showed up. He was already there and he'd gotten himself a drink and it was pouring down rain. So I walk in. He'd gotten himself a drink, and I walk up to the bar and I order a drink and all cash, and so I looked at him. This is a die bar. The drinks for six dollars. And I looked at him because I thought maybe he would like buy me the drink. And he was like, there's an ATM like down the street in the poor rain. I get my own money. And I was like, I guess I'll just saddle up and stay. And you did there and came back. Oh yeah, I went, I got I got the cash. When we started the podcast we had we talked about this on the podcast we didn't also how to lose because the beauty of what we do. You just stay for the story. Yeah, the story. Like I'm like I'll actually pick the tap. But that's since the podcast started, not before the budget. But I've always done comedy, so I'm like it's always good. Yeah, like the best dates are the worst dates are the best dates for the content. Yeah anyway, sorry, Yeah, he just he interrupted me constantly and asked me any questions about myself any time I would talk for any long sixty seconds on myself. He looked so bored. He couldn't he just couldn't be bothered. He was just rude. He wasn't engaged at all. And then somebody came up and like recognized me a place to be a food blogger, and this guy was like, oh my god, I follow you. And that guy walked away, and I was like, that's so cool. Nobody even recognized me back, and that was so cool to me. And he just jumped right back into his story like no acknowledgement of Like, that's so neat that you're you know, people are a fan of your work. He just was like rude to start to finish, and then he insisted that I split every single round at the bar with him. And actually, and I have mixed feelings about paying on dates when I don't want you to make it weird. I don't think that anybody owes me money, but I don't want you to be so rude to me, especially again thanks or six dollars. So, yes, he was rude. He didn't ask questions. I just didn't feel about That's probably the worst date I've ever been on. What we never talked again? Musa. They're actually back together. Yeah, he moved here with us. Am I is it probably like the voice, the catfish voice. I don't know. That's pretty okay, I need to know this. Yeah, so this, I guess it just started this rule of me not going on a date. It actually kind of stopped me getting on the apps. Probably this might have been one of the very last app dates I did. I actually came back to New York from you know, quarantine COVID times. I was at my parents' house and when things felt safe enough and people were going having like patio dates, I was like on the streets like I was in like FEMA tents on the street having dates like I was like, what is what are we doing out here, you know, that's like all you could do. But I think people really wanted that connection. They've been inside for so long, so they were doing whatever it took. I felt like it was a fun time to date. It was like the people that were in New York were ready to be out there. A lot of people have like broken up in the pandemic and so that you know, late summer into the fall, and then it kind of shut down again. In the Winner of twenty twenty was like a dating time, but we were all just out on the literal streets, and so there were a few times where I was like, I can't do this anymore. I'm just like drinking saki out of a plastic cup. It's thirty to creeze out, Like what is my life? I have a space heater by my feet, like I can't in a tent, you know, like in these little like structures that they built. But this one really set the tone for I'm not going out with strangers anymore that I haven't heard their voice, I haven't seen them walk and talk. And this guy, we had such a good banter. Remember we were bantering all throughout the election that the election that lasted a week long before we got the results. So we were texting all week and his banter was on point. He looked really cute as pictures. He was tall and had a job, and we I was like, what's the catch here, Because if you're a woman who dates New York City for quite some time, you know that there's gonna be a catch there just is you know, like, what's gonna be wrong with this guy? And he walked up. We met on the street to walk to this bar. He looked just like his photos, and like, what's it gonna be? When he spoke, it was the voice of Michael Jackson. It was the most song. It was Michael Jackson. I mean it was most feminine, teeny tiny boys on a six six man. And I was like, fadith And so we go. We sit at this place. I've never felt too much like I was pulling teeth. Remember one point we were talking about candles. I was like, I'm on a date talking about my favorite candle. Something that's gone wrong here. He was telling me how he broke up with this girl. They had a pumpkin carving contest. I was like, this is insane. I actually went to the bathroom in the Standard in the East Village and took like a sexy selfie in the mirror for myself. Like that's with the point that I was at that I needed to feel myself because I was on this terrible date and we had one drink and I insisted on splitting the bill just to let him know that he was in the friend zone. And we never that was it was just his voice, his whole energy, all right. And really, you know, I don't know that I could have got past that voice, but I can get past a not great voice. But the energy was completely off, like I was. It was not it was not it. And that's kind of you know, we can talk today about whatever you want, but like when people always ask us about app dating versus meeting people in the wild, and that's one of the reasons it doesn't work, because you don't have a vibe for a person. You haven't seen how they interact in the world, how they walk, how they talk, if you're attracted to the way they smell or their posture. You know, little things like that you don't know through photos on an app. So that was a prime example. Yeah, we really support online dating, and not everybody has the option of the audio, and Ashley's in comedy club, she's comedian. Not everybody has the option to do that. But we really encourage people to push themselves to be out into the world as much as they can and make eye contact with somebody at a bar that you think is cute, ask questions, say yes to everything. If if you're the kind of person it's like I'm single, I don't want to be, then put yourself in situations to meet people. And I've had really good luck just meeting people in the wild. Everybody I've ever dated it has been somebody I've met in the wild. I've gone on like two eating dating app dates in my life. It's just not for me. Yeah, I get fatigued shopping for people. People like how's your day, and I'm like, oh, I don't care about this. So I just encourage people to like just get out more, even if that means like typically you work inside your home all day long, go work at a coffee shop. I worked at Intelligency at coffee on Sunday morning, and I like met so many people, And it's just it's not easy for everybody and need to put yourself out there. But if if your pain point is I'm single and I don't want to be, then you have to put yourself in situations to not be. Yeah, yeah, absolutely I haven't. So I haven't dated for and I don't need to. Obviously I married, just I haven't break right now. You're like, I'm taking a break right now. No, that's this clarifying. I amn't dated for fourteen years. Wow, because I was a monk for three years and then got married to my wife. Well, no, so I started dating my wife ten years ago. I did. I did it ten years ago, ten years ago. But absolute a thing when I started dating. So we met. We met through my sister who happened to be our wing person. She's like really close friends with my wife now. She was friends with her before and she's one of my best friends too. So she did the work. But I always wonder, like the closest expence I've had to it is trying to recruit during the pandemic. So when I was hiring people and doing interviews over zoom or interviews over the phone, I was just like, Wow, I'm getting no energy from this person, Like I'm not understanding. It's impossible to tell someone could have the best energy, but through zoom you could never tell. And so that's the closest I can relate to that. But I'm intrigued by what you're saying, because you're saying go to places, how everyone has that one friend who's always trying to set them up. Do you have that one friend both of you. I feel like all of our friends the guy they would date that person, but we do ask her friends. We talked about a lot of the podcast, like telling your friends I would like to be set up and like letting them know I'd like you to think of me for this, because not everybody thinks that you want that, and some people think it might be insulting to suggest that. Well, we did a whole episode on it because it's such an art form to setting people up. And what we hate the most is like, you're single, they're single. You guys should be together. It's an insult. It's like, what does that even mean? Like just two people existing in the world, they're going to match. So I think that it's nice when you have friends that actually think about who you are as a person who they have that might be a fit. But I don't know. You know, it's funny because I love that your sister set you and your wife up. My brother did kind of set me up with somebody and we went on a few dates and it was great while it was, and we're still fine, but it was Had it worked out, I would have loved that story that someone that's so close to me set me up with his essentially his best friend's brother in law. You know, it was that kind of thing. He knew where I was from, we knew the same people. So when people like that are really close to you and really get you, those I think those are the best type of people to set you up. But like Raina said, I mean there's also people that have no idea that you're looking or you'd be into it. So I don't think there's anything wrong with telling everybody you know that I'm wanting to be set up. If you know anybody, why not make you know? Shoot your shot? Should we throw it out right now on the show? Yeah, anyone's watching, what should tell them? I'm trying to date Dave Bautista. Okay, Okay, Dave, if you listen to the show. If I don't know, he might who knows? If anyone knows Dave? Okay, can I go, Yeah, what do you want? So this is one want you to do? What do you want? He's who is it? What do you want? What are you looking for? And then what are you bringing to the game? And I'm gonna manifest Dave Bautista, I like a big guy that's bald with a bear of the origin story basically, Raina started hooking up with the security cards at our shows and that became her tight Why don't you hear any card? Okay, he's really bad your own shows. Yeah, I mean if they can protect the stage, you know, I'm going to pay them back. And so I like guys tattoo sleeves. Um, somebody can make me laugh. We always talk about like ranking what you want in a person. Um looks or right? Never want No, I'm just kidding somebody I was nodding along ye bald okay, Um, I think my number one is somebody that I'm just inspired by the way you live your life. So whatever that is, I want to be excited to hear about your day. I want to be like, that is dope what you have going on? So whatever that is, Um, that's my number one thing I think, And I want to like laugh, I want to be. I want to be inspired by the people you surround yourself with what you do all day long. So that but if you're bald with the beard and tattoo sleeves also yeah yeah, um that's what Miles teller. If you're listening. Okay, okay, We've got a few fans in the office. I'm a Philly guy. Um yeah, go birds. I mean I want somebody that the same things I always say. I want to look up to someone in some way. Again, like I don't need to be inspired every day, but I want to be able to learn something from you and be challenged and entertained because I really have such a full life, So I need someone doing hands of life that's already very fulfilling and someone that lets me be me. You know, we do this. I do stand up comedy. We're really successful. It can be intimidating, I guess, but I just don't ever want to feel like I need to minimize myself or be a less aversion of myself or toned down my personality or not share my successes with somebody. So that's kind of what I'm looking for. Yeah, Myles is like like we're a top gun or whatever. I don't know you're trying to date Tom. I actually said this thing really early on in the podcast. I think you said it, I didn't say it that you know, you want to find somebody that feels like home, and that's like, really what I want is somebody that's just like, I'm so comfortable with you, you just being with you. I can just exactly be myself and like you said, I don't have to like shrink myself make myself smaller. I'm humble, but I want to be able to hype myself and how hard I work. I don't come from anything. I don't come from money, so everything that actually and I have we've built ourselves. So I want to be able to hype myself. And I want to come home and feel like comfort that you're there. I want you to be my first call. I wonder that can like lean on you. I have a large list, but you know what I think, I don't should I get my list down. I have it on my phone. Also, like a want of a motorcycle, tattoos, all the things. Those are surface levels. Yeah, but I also expect that I will bring a lot to the table. I think that you know, sometimes you hear people being like I want this and this and this, and it's like, okay, but do you bring a lot to the table? Also, that's what I was a question. Yeah, um, and so I think I think I do, and I think that I'm like a really caring, loving person. I'm fun. Actually I have so many friends, like, oh my god, use so many friends, and uh yeah, I think your life would become do you bring to the table. I don't want to bring to the table, but hoviously no, I mean I think, you know, I want somebody. I don't want children, and I marriage. I could take it or leave it, especially because I don't want children. I think that's is a big you know, not everybody's reason, but a reason why I think people should get married if they want to, you know. So I want someone that just wants to live a fun life that's not too dependent on me. We can and support each other. There's no like codependency or fix or upper type of situation. Like. I want someone that's kind of already fully formed, that's living their own independent life that we can come together and live that life together. So I have an awesome life. I think that it's really fun to talk to us to be around us, to come see us perform, if you want to to travel the world to do all these things. I am also a carrying, nurturing person. You know, I'm a good listener. I can make you laugh. I have a great family. People really just want to be around me for my family, quite honestly, that's at Yeah, it's a huge, huge selling point. I have a new nephew named Jay, so that's my favorite name, just so you know. But yeah, I think I bring a lot to the table. I think I would be a really great partner. And I think that I have gotten to a point where I I'm a much better partner than I would have been five years ago even I mean ten years ago, of course, but just even what we've been able to learn in the podcast and about ourselves and how to be a good partner, and the things that you look back on again five ten years ago, three years ago, last year and you were like, that's not the sign of a healthy relationship, or that's not how to be a supportive partner. This is when you're feeling competitive with your partner. You're not the same team. There's contempt, there's jealousy, all these different things, and so I feel as though I'm in such a great place to be a much better partner than I have been in the past, and that is something that I want this year. And we talked about it on our episode, the first episode of the year, and what our goals are, and that's really what I'm manifesting. And I haven't really said that before. It's been very like last year, it was like, I want to have more sex, actually, and then I actually did. Like before that, it was like, I just don't feel like I have room right now in my life for somebody. Everything feels pretty full. It's like at capacity, and I don't really want to be bothered. And so I do feel like I'm at a place that even though we are super busy and I do feel quote unquote full, I could make the space for somebody. I love that love, that help, where those answers are, and it's it's beautiful to have that, right. I think so often we ask someone in our lives like, oh, well, what are you bringing to the table, and and it's kind of a hard question to answer for a lot of people that people struggle with that because it's not what we've been trained to believe, like we've been trained to believe you should know what you want in someone, but not what you bring. And so I love hearing both your answers, and I hope that we've just manifested where you both want here on this show right now. So if Miles or Dave ever calls really hot, really hot, but she's married, Oh, here's a question, because I think today we're living at a time where everyone's having varying degrees of success in their own way. You're seeing more people experience fame, You're seeing more people experience success, You're seeing more people experience financial stability. You just have a lot more people having a lot more variety of experiences in this way. Have you found it harder to date as you become more successful? And and and yeah, exactly, And so I want to know what are the kind of troubles you've been having this time around? And is there a part of you that's like, let one go away earlier? And I shouldn't have I mean, I feel like a lot of people say to us, our men intimidate, but I my success by the money I make. And to those people, I say, what's the alternative? You know what, you're going to be less successful? Because maybe you'll get a partner. You're gonna make less money because perhaps somebody will end up with you. That's not the answer to this, yes, of course, as a woman, it's the inverse. Like men make more money, they become work successful, everybody wants you. Women you're dating, opportunities do not grow in tandem the way a man's probably will, right, So it's more that way. It's more of the fact that it's intimidating as opposed to people wanting to take advantage. You'll use your network and connect. I think that you're dating pool just shrinks, you know, and you don't want to put yourself in situations where you're competitive with your partner in a negative way, where your success emasculates somebody. You're constantly thinking, is my success emasculating this person? But I just I think your pool gets smaller for sure. But that doesn't mean I would ever stop what I'm doing. You know, What's what's the alternative? Um And I have to be conscious about how I speak about my life, how I speak about money we make. Success we have, but I'm not going to pretend it doesn't exist either. I just have to be mindful to be humble and have you seen people be turned off if they don't know who you are and then you're on a date and then they figure it out. Well, not turned off. Somebody has this the other day. If like we would talk about what we do on a first date and I would say the name of the podcast, I wouldn't be like, it's one of the number one dating and relationship pis in the United States. I wouldn't lead with that. But not turned off people, or maybe they're turned off and that's why it doesn't work out. They just don't say it's your face. Maybe I mean, I mean some one person one time said to me your two public for me, I would never date anybody like you, And it really hurt. I remember leaving the date and like crying on the street, like really hurt my feelings. But that's okay, that's not my person and that's fine. And you know, listen, we all bring baggage into a relationship. That's my baggage. I think that you know. We love this special from Ali Wong where she talks about specifically women in comedy, like the way you're a woman on stage, you're talking about sex, like your dating pool is shrinking. A man and on stage with a microphone, his dating pool is growing as he speaks, you know. So it's really the inverse and that special spoke to me like nothing else in my life, and as a female comedian. But I also just think part of it's the bar gets higher when your life gets more dope, you know, it's like you got to bring more, you know. We have this friend of her, this friend of ours, she's so funny, Murray Fouston. She's a comedian and she did this just random reel or TikTok. One time. She was like, if I'm single at forty, the bar is so much higher because at this point I've been with myself and so I'm happy in my life where it is now. And that may not speak to everybody, but it does feel like Rain and I have achieved our true dream life. We feel as though we have such a purpose and we're able to help people every day, and the emails we get are such an honor and we get to toward the world and make people laugh, and it's so good as it is. So it would really be someone that is going to enhance any of that to fit in our life. And I don't say that in like we're so picky, the bar so high, but it just is I get it more. Yeah, I do, so those two things together and yeah, I mean and it's just you know, the way the world, it's just you're a woman, You're like you're you get older and just as sad as it is, you're dating pull shrinks in that way too, you know. Yeah. Um, I think that being in love is the best feeling in the world, and I miss it and I love being in love, but also one of the best feelings in the world. Is like any email that somebody sends to us that says, like you help me to make my life better. You help me to do ending, ask or raise, leave an abusive relationship, strength in a relationship I didn't want to lose. Talk to my mother in a better like. I get choked up when I think about the things people have said to us, like your voices have filled my homes with sound. Um when like my pet tie, I get like, like, I know that we have changed people's lives. You've touched people in such a deep way, and I can't imagine anything feeling better than that. So in the interim, while I'm single, why I don't have anybody. You just have to make your life good. So maybe you don't have a giant podcast you can reach all these people, but like you can go make friends, go find horby. You just go find other ways to give your life meaning and joy. And that's what you do when you're single, and then when you find somebody, like, how dope is it that you're like a great person? Now? Yeah you know? Now, I love that it's coming across very strong. I don't think listening to both of you, I just the reason why I've been going down this question trail is because I'm hoping that everyone who's listening and watching is going, oh, yeah, that's I can aspire for that, right, Like, that's the point that everyone can aspire for that to feel whole, to feel complete, to feel like their life so awesome that someone's going to bring some value to really get in on it. Like what a great place to be, Like, that's that's the biggest achievement of all, right, Like, regardless of all the other success that you've had, which which is phenomenal in and of itself, I think it's amazing to think that you're sitting here expressing confidence at a level that you don't always experience, even from people who've made it right. So that's it's amazing, Honestly, I'm telling you that. Like sitting opposite you right now, I'm like, Wow, it's it's incredible to feel, Yeah, my life's dope, my life's amazing, and someone's going to add value to it. What are some of the mistakes that you think people make early on while they're dating someone, especially when it comes to that self worth self esteem piece, because I think you're coming at it from this we've been working on ourselves, but often we find it's the opposite where people dive into relationships when they're lonely, when they want to be dependent on someone, when they feel that they're inadequate, that's why they're alone. So what are some of the mistakes you've seen people make early on? Just not working on the fear of being alone and loneliness. I guess those can be two different things. So you enter into relationship with such a desperate need to have someone fill a gap or make you feel worthy or make you feel value, and so those are big things. You know, those just require a lot of work, but they trickle down and did the way that you act and the way that you feel so desperate if you don't get that text back or that someone doesn't like you. And you know, one of the things that I can't stop thinking about that I listening to you with a recent guest that you had on Humble the Poet, and I'm sure you've talked about us before, is going into situations. I think them do this a little bit more than women, but I think women do it too, just wanting them to like you and not even thinking about if you like them or if they would be a good match for you. So you've got come down this road of like you've tried so hard to feel wanted, to feel desired and not rejected that you haven't even stopped to think if the person would be a good partner or if you even like them. Yeah, you know, So how do you avoid that when someone's telling you stuff like oh my god, you're beautiful, like you're so smart, you're so intelligent, Like, how do you avoid kind of enjoying that? Even what we're talking about earlier, like when you were saying that you want to be in a place where you feel like home, and I love that definition of like a home love or you know, it's I think that's a feeling everyone once. But it's hard because when we walk into a dating scenario, most of the time we're trying to impress each other. We dress our best, we look our best. Like that's not really comfortable because you know that in this So if you don't look like that all the time, or you and set yourself up like that all the time, So how do you even Hey, how do you deal with someone who is actually validating you and it feels good? And inversely the other side, like, how do you make sure that you are actually finding out whether you're comfortable with someone at what stage? So I think that we should be allowed to enjoy things right, Like you don't have to go into every day being like are they love bombing me? Is this too much? Is this is not enough? What was the exact amount of time they spent before they texted me? And what? You know? I think we are allowed to just enjoy things sometimes and to get one dat as a time, one moment at a time. I think that in order to sidestep putting so many eggs in this basket essentially and making this so important we do we should do what I was saying before, which is build out a life around yourself, so you have friends, you have hobbies, you like what you do for work, so that this one person isn't so you don't depend on them so much to be your whole world. It's not so this date's not so important. You know. Every day should just be fun and you should enjoy yourself and hopefully you other stuff to fall back on you, other plants, this weekend, the other things you can sink your teeth into, and it just doesn't mean so much, you know, like every single thing is not riding on this date. And I think that we should be cautiously optimistic but also not so hard on ourselves when somebody lies to us or manipulates us, because you shouldn't spend every interaction going where's all the holes in this? You know, we should just be able to be calm and enjoy it. And we shouldn't assume every person is going to lie to us, manipulate us, ghost us, cheat on us all these things. And if they do, that's just the kind of person they are, And isn't it isn't it nice that they went away? And you know that now sooner, you know, so if someone's going to ghost too. Why would you want someone like that in your life that can do that to somebody. But I had a friend that said to me once like, this may not look like what you thought it was going to look like, because we have these unrealistic views of dating and relationships in the first place. And that feeling you've talked about, the spark, we've talked about, the spark, we've had guests on. But the spark, the butterflies, all that stuff is actually just anxiety. And so I think that a healthy amount of nerves, of course, I mean I am like that. I rarely ever get nervous about anything, and I'll be nervous before a first date. So it's not that, But it's that feeling that actually is just anxiety. When the feeling of someone that is probably a good partner for you, that's like a solid, secure person is really comfortable and like kind of boring in your body. Like I just always say, you just need to listen to your body. I think we always know if we're willing to listen of like the way someone makes you feel when you're in their presence and then when you leave their presence, Like I always tap, I always really want to hone in on how I feel when I part ways with somebody. Do I feel this like sense of anxiety, like what am I gonna hear from the next or is this like calm, like I'm sure, I absolutely will We're going to go out again. And then I guess I love that. It's like when you say goodbye, what is the immediate feeling? Is it like anxiety or is it like chill? Yeah? You know, yeah, Well, in your friends that are in happy, healthy relationships around you, Like, what are some of the things that you've seen in as that you're like, Oh, that's that's really special, that's great, Like what are some of the good signs? No, I just I mean I when they have fun together, I really just we have are I'm thinking of the couple that they're big fans of yours also and Sean and Nanushka and just but yeah, my other resources. They work really well together. They're a team, they do all the things, they have great communication and yaudi, YadA, But they just seem like buddies, like they just really have fun together. And I think that's also the main thing of randonized relationship. It's like you're and you're just you're on the same team. Like we talked about this on our upcoming episode, is that you don't feel like I literally picture it like whatever sport you're into, where are you playing against each other or you on the same team with a common goal. Yeah. I rarely see somebody break up that I'm like, what you know, Like I think about my brother and his wife, and they've been together for like twelve years. They're just they're friends. They really enjoy each other. They are really fun to be around. They're always joking around. They're really like loving the same couple that you're talking about, same thing, um, another one of UM, like Ashley's other best friend, UM and her husband. They're just they're nice that you see a friendship in a respect between them. My best friend just got engaged and her fiance really has her on this like great pedestal. He really looks up to her. He thinks that she is just so wonderful, and she thinks he's so wonderful. And I listen to how couples speak about each other a lot when they're not around the other person. Also, and UM, are you proud of your partner? Are you excited to do the stuff that they that they want to do. So, Um, we I think are fortunate to have a lot of really good examples around us a positive relationships, and um, I always encourage people when you're like, you know, was what's going on with me? Normal to look at people whose relationships you admire and say, like, what what do I emulate from that? You know? And it's important to surround yourself with people that have good relationships with everybody, not just the romantic partner, but friends and family as well. Yeah, I like, I like that nuance, like, like that's a really subtle idea of how people talk about each other when when the other person's not around and when the person is around too. Right of that, when if you saw me and my wife together, you think we hate each other because bantis so much, because it's such a I feel, at least it's a very British thing, because me and my friends do this too, like we will lay into each other and the more you can lay into each other more and love you, And so I do with my guy friends who doing my wife like and my wife started, by the way, it was not my ideas, so it's not something I came up with, but literally she sets the tone if she's around me, she'll find a way to pick some flow out in the most hilarious right, in a funny way. Yeah, yeah yeah. Passive aggressive difference between healthy banter and roasting and I love that too, and nagging and yeah, actually trying to make someone look bad totally impletely yeah yeah, and passive aggression yeah around yeah yeah. When they're talking to each other in the third person, yeah, oh my god, they bring up their therapist. I'm like, how fast can I exit this room? What's your take on friends becoming lovers and lovers staying friends after they break up up? So both way rounds um. We get asked a lot like can can your friend turn into your lover? Um? And can your lover go back to being your friend? UM? I don't know if what I want to take first. I mean, I feel like, can you can you? Can you be lovers and then friends? I guess it depends on how the relationship ended. I guess it depends how much time goes by. What happened one of my best friends in the world, him and I slept together for like maybe six weeks when we first met, and ending it was really painful for me because he basically was like he was like, I don't want this. He was like, I don't want to date anybody. It feels like this is where it's heading. I'm just telling you right now, you're not gonna like what happens. I don't I don't want to be in a relationship with you. And um, it hurt a lot in the moment, but the honesty and sticking to that is actually what has allowed me to be stay friends with him because he didn't disrespect me. He looked at me in the face and he said I don't want to be in a relationship. And then it was probably a little weird and painful. For like six months, it hurt to see him with another girl. It was really I didn't really want to hear about it. If he was dating somebody, it hurt. But with enough time, I was like, this is still like I find value in this. I really like this person, and he really truly is like one of the most important people in my life. He took our podcast photos when we first started. It was just he is such like an act of service, love language person. He's so wonderful. So with enough time, if you really want and if you feel I think respected in the ending of it. I think you can be. But it depends on what happens to relationship. If I'm dating somebody and they say to me, yeah, my AX and I are best friends, I don't know that I love it. It depends on the circumstances. I know. It's one of these things. If there are no hard and fast roles, and we don't really trust people that say that there are. You can't be friends with an X, you can never dig your friend shut up, but yes you can. I so I think it's all case by case basis. But I think of friends that end up in a relationship could be really beautiful. I think it can totally work. I think it's again not a hot take. It goes out saying that you could ruin the friendship, but you'd be willing to take the risk, thinking of um, love is blind. The Deep Dah Deep Tea and by all that was so upsetting. We love that show, but that I think kind of like, you know, the friendship can can really get ruined, but it can really be really beautiful too. My thing with that, I always think you should think about what it would actually look like if you dated this person. Because I have a guy friend that and this was not anytime recentum, but where we connected so much. If we were in the room, you could feel it. It was palpable. It was just like how could they not date? You know, like everybody saw it. Everybody could feel it and the chemistry and we just felt like a perfect match. But and like I knew that too, and I've found him super attractive, but I couldn't picture dating him. I couldn't picture being like at home with him or something, you know, and I probably vice versa, and I took a realistic look at it, because you get to that place where you're like, should we try and maybe or maybe not? And I think it's really you have to be realistic with yourself, like can I actually see them as a romantic partner? And then staying friends with an X that is really also can totally work or not. And it's so much about the feelings that each person has. I have an X that I wish I could be friends with. I could absolutely be friends with him. I think he's the best person. I think he's so funny, But I don't think he could and I have set a lot of boundaries with him because I just don't think it would be healthy for him without saying much more. So, it's like I absolutely could, we could text, we could be buddies, you know, have him on the podcast, But like, I don't think it'll be healthy for him, knowing what I know a lot about all the way a relationship ended in his past and things like that. And I think it's so fun to be friends with somebody that you casually dated. Like a guy that I casually dated for you know, a month, two months right before the pandemic. We text all the time. He has a girlfriend. Sure she doesn't care on what if you told her or not, but like joke around and I'll be you know, it's it's like a funny relationship. I find those relationships like just kind of weirdly special. I like those. Yeah, I want to try something. You've never done this before. So Ray, now imagine if you were breaking up with Ashley. I want you to try to the best script of what you'd like to hear if someone's breaking up with you. So you'll going to be the person who's breaking up. Ashley's going to be the person who's being broken up with, Okay, and I want you to deliver what you'd like to hear if someone's breaking up with you. So you've been kind of daying for like three to six months, three to six months, Yeah, I want to hear. Yeah, oh my god, I did my last break and actually you respond how you respond? Okay, I have to break up with you. Oh my gosh, there goes my bank account. Not not as you, guys, as if you dating again, not as you. I feel like this relationship has run its course. And um, I feel like you already messed up because you need to start with your soul. So you that I've already messed up once. Already you break up, break up with myself. You need to start up. You're the funniest, coolest, No, that's one I've ever met. Compliments first, You want to hear compliments before someone says our relationships. Just like if you just start it and say I'm like funny and hot, like it'll be better. It's like, it's just better, it'll lessen the blow. I don't care. That's funnier and hotter. I wouldn't be breaking up with you. That's all I've heard that. I'm just like that sounds chill, you know, I don't know the last breakup I did. I try to keep it like as vague as possible. I said, like, I think this relationships runs course. I think we want different things in life. I want to be successful and you don't know um that No, I just I said, I think we want different things in life, and then we expect different things out of life. And I said, I still love you and care about you. Think you're a wonderful person, You're all the things, You're smart and funny, and but I just I think this is run. It's course. I've used that line before on like a couple of breakups. I recycle that line. But there's a couple of things in breakups. I don't want somebody to walk away being completely confused. Actually I talked about that in my last breakup because I was like, what if I said this? And she was like, you don't want to like have him walk away thinking he did something he didn't. And I agree with that. But I also don't need to like burn into the ground and be like this is wrong and this is wrong and this is wrong. You know, Like I also don't need to make you feel terrible sometimes like some vagueness is okay. Well, that's the thing that we say when people are begging for closure, it's like you want to hear the really bad stuff, you know. And I think that's one of the best things that we've learned throughout the years doing what we do, is sometimes it's just that you're not it. You know, you're not the one, and it can boil down to some things you may not want to hear. And I think it's good to reflect on yourself too, Like how many times have you been with somebody that just wasn't the person and you couldn't necessarily put your finger on it, and then if you did, it would come across sounding pretty harsh. So I think it's always good to put yourself on the other side of it too, Like I'm not so undesirable. I have dated people that were great and then we had to end it too. So I mean, I would hate to be broken up with and totally heartbroken with somebody that I loved and then I saw a future with. But I know that I would be okay, and I can't be knowing what I know now, I would just have to take it pretty easily because sometimes it just doesn't work out. So that's kind of the thing too, when people are just they're so obsessed with that closure conversation. Yeah, yeah, I do think you should have closure, but to what extent, Well, some people want to have a third breakup conversation, a fourth breakup conversation, right like you've you've had the breakup conversation, but they want to keep understanding. And sometimes we're that person or sometimes that person's doing it to us, and you're saying, actually, you're not going to achieve much from that extension of conversation. Depends who you are, and you know why it ended. It's just I don't know that I need to like give you a declaration of hate, you know, Like it's just I don't see myself marrying you. I don't need to tell you like I don't respect the way you live your life. I think it's fine to break up, take some time to marinate, and then really want that like closure conversation six months later or something, because you really can be a little more honest. Tensions are lower, but I'm not going to keep unpacking the breakup. I think. Sometimes so my I was engaged to somebody, we broke up, and we didn't really have any other We broke up the day after my engagement party, and we never spoke again for three and a half years. And three and a a half years later actually, and i'd started the podcast about two months after you started the podcast. Through a series of things that happened, I ended up talking to him and he asked me to go out to dinner and we had this like six hour long, all night closure conversation and he said, you know, I've thought about you every day for four years and I've never really gotten over this, and I hate what I did do, and I'm so sorry. It was a nice moment. It was a nice moment to have it, but I know I appreciate it and helped me to walk away up from some anger and some things I really was still hang on to. But I didn't need it. It was nice to have it. Sometimes that feels really good. But you have to learn to like go to therapy and read books and listen to podcasts, and thankfully today there is so much out there like your show, like our show that people can listen to and hopeall we find some peace. Yeah, I don't know. So the dream is that you're consistently doing relationship check ins if you need them, and you know where you stand and where they stand and so like you're a woman, for example, and you just get blindsided, broke up with out of the blue, and he's like, did you do this? You do that? And you're like, why didn't you tell me when those things were happening? Because feedback is important, you know. Again, I don't think you should beat down someone's door for this closure and tell me everything that's wrong with me, but like it is nice to know, so perhaps you can be better in the next relationship if it's something that was actually valid. Yeah. So I just think there is a happy medium. Unhappy medium, I guess would be the better word. But again, it sometimes it just boils down to this, isn't it? And I think you're a lovely person and all the best you do you think that people? Do you think being blindsided as a real thing? Sometimes when people I'll qualify this when people say like he blindsided me, and I'm like, this person just woke up walking to a room and say good bye, Like I don't know, and I'm sure that does happen. But do you think it happens as often as people say that it does. That's a great question. I mean, I'd love to look at the research behind it. But from what I've experienced, I definitely can say that I think people are blindsided to the degree that people might not be saying much before they do something like that. But i'd say that if you were and I don't mean same as you. I don't mean like interrogating and investigating and having a private investige involved or anything like that. But I think if you're reading the signs of like how close someone is, how distant someone is, like how engaged they are in conversation, like how often you're actually connecting, like I think you can tell. But I think often we think things are great because they look great in our heads, but we're not really looking at what am I actually feeling, what am I experiencing from this person. But I do think people do have that completely. I mean, I literally spoke to someone a couple of months ago, and it's like they've been married for twenty years and then their partner told them that they don't think they were right for each other anymore and that they've felt that way for a long time. Now. That's insanely tough, right, Like, that's so difficult, and so yeah, if I was with someone for twenty years, I would feel blindsided because twenty years a long time. But often people are quiet. I find that a lot of people are like silent or quiet or distant before a breakup. It's not like they're they're telling you they love you right now. And then well maybe, actually, I take that back. That's happened to people too. Every once in a while, you'll have a conversation and then it's couldn't you believe it? We were perfect? And then you take a little deeper and yeah, like, well, actually there's this one thing that happened in Miami and you're like, oh my god, the huge red flags. Why didn't you couldn't you couldn't feel that something was off then? And what you said, you might just think it's perfect, or you're just trying not to be You're you're trying to not be honest with yourself, like you're trying not to see the signs, like wanting it to be so perfect that you don't pick up all those things. Yeah, what are some of the common red flags you think people miss? Like what are the ones that you think people actually miss them completely? Like this is a good example of one where you think you're blindsided, but you're not really because there are hidden messages there. What are some of those other ones that you think we just like just don't recognize. I mean a lot of signs and narcissism. I think that the charming thing, you know, just I think you had doctor Romney on maybe. Yeah, Like that word is always in my head because it's such a positive compliment, and of course it doesn't have to be bad, but the overly charming you feel like a connection, like you're the only woman in the room when you're talking to him. It's like, I don't know, that might not be good. So that's what we all want to some degree, isn't it Like isn't that the feeling that we want to be made to fill out? Or no, you're saying we should never want to feel that even with the it's it's hard. Yeah, it's hard. She described a narcist and I was like, that sounds kind a nice. She was like, if they try to take you on a trip within ten days of meeting, I was like, that sounds great. I don't know, I don't know if it's just like does everyone feel like that that they've met? So, yeah, it can be. It can be tough to decipher. I mean, I think just general bad behavior, like if someone doesn't do what they say they're gonna do, they don't show up, they bail on you, they just immediately like someone does not show up, they don't respond to you, or whatever it is, and you don't pay attention. Yeah, I think you can only blame yourself when that actually turns out to be the demise of a relationship. Yeah, because it was there at the beginning. Yeah, mine's going the other way. We used to text each other all the time, and now we've been married for seven years talking. I have to message seven times to get a text back. Now. My wife's the worst of textings. Literally, she's she's the worst that everyone always to message me going Jeff said, rather this message like three days ago, she's gonna get back to him, like yeah, three weeks like like because literally, Yeah, she loves calls. She can pick up the phone anytime, not a text, not a text, ignore as text. We had a guest on and we talked about different texting styles, and I would say it was one of the most impactful episodes we did of twenty twenty two. It really helped to reframe into my mind that not everybody's like me, you know, like when I like somebody, I want to talk to them more. And it just really put into perspective that people have completely different communication styles and even when it comes to text, and I think it's helpful to remember it doesn't mean someone doesn't like you, but I mean, yes, days later they haven't returned your text. I think that's a pretty clear sign that you're not top of mind and a priority. Or it could even be purposeful, which is even worse. Yeah, like they're trying to put you in your place she doesn't want to be be. Yeah. I really enjoy the very beginning stages. It's a lot of fun. I like finding somebody that like really is engaging makes me laugh and I don't pause to think that often can this person be a good long term partner? And I think there's a good balance. There's a hard balance to strike because I don't want to interview somebody to be my husband on the first or second date either, because that's a fair to another person. But I think what you can do at least is look at somebody's lifestyle and what they do just day to day for work, how they travel, they have friends, and say like, is this a lifestyle I could enjoy long term. You know, if somebody went on a date with me and they were like, I really want somebody home seven nights a week. I want to be that's going to like have dinner with me seven nights a week. I don't want their career necessarily to be primary in their life. I want my career to be primary in our lives. You know, I'm probably not your girl, and that's not I wish people were that clear though, as well, Like, at least that would make it really clear for someone. Yeah, everybody was more clear exactly. Yeah, that would just be a dream if someone said that it makes some sense, Yeah, I'd be amazing. I wish we could all just like interview perfectly in a first date. But I have leaned into situations because they feel good. Because I find somebody that's really nice and I feel really connected with them on like an intimate level. I sometimes stop, don't stop to think, like, what does this look like in six months? Can we live the same type of life? Am I's gonna be proud of this person, and I like the kind of family they have their friends. So I get caught up in the beginning stages because I said this in the podcast on our show recently. My mom didn't raise me to like find find a husband, finds me to pay your bills. My mom was like, you be the person that pays the bills and you'd be the person successful, which I love and she's so empowering. But no one ever told me like when you go on a first date, you should date because you want to do this person long term. So those are some pitfalls for me. I think it don't pause to think, you know, what does this look like in a year? Yeah? You know, Yeah, that's a great show. Thank you for that. I want to dive into a couple of more personal things before we wrap up. Actually, you were saying that, you know, for you, you decide you didn't want to have children. How have you tackled explaining that to potential partners to your own family, Like, how's the reaction been? Because I always feel like when we make things that like break a tradition or pattern, like it's like a big thing to say, like, oh I don't want to do this and it shouldn't be a big thing, but it is seen as a big thing, right, Like even even for us, like we've been together for seven years, and in our community, it's like, that's a long time to be together and not have kids. Yeah. Yeah, And so it's like even that, even if the conversation is still open. So I guess I'm interested in that because I think there are so many people who are listening and watching who are changing the way relationships look, who are changing the way love looks, who are changing the way what matters to them looks. And so I want to hear from you, like how did you a come to that conclusion yourself, whatever you're comfortable sharing, and then how did you share that with the people in your life that matter? It's been I've never just want I've just never wanted children. We did a whole episode in this. It took me months to feel comfortable even doing it because I wanted to approach it very sensitively to women who are struggling to have children or that are struggling with the decision. And I don't want to be flippant about it, like, oh, it's no big deal, Like I just don't want them, and that's what it is, you know, because I actually feel, I say, so many women, especially as they get older into their thirties forties, that like don't know, you know, I don't really have to think about it, and so I've always felt that way in my adult life. Maybe when I was a kid or in college, I was like, of course I'll get married and have kids. You just don't know any better. And then I slowly started to realize as I became to adults one that I don't want. I can't picture it on any level, any part of it. And my family, again, it's just one of those I'm lucky that they just support me and don't expect me to live a traditional life. They never have. So glad that my brother has chosen to have children, have a brand new baby nephew named Jay, and more to come hopefully, so they're going to get their their grandkids. But I've never felt an ounce of pressure from them to do anything besides be myself, and luckily I have achieved success and I can show them them letting me fly was not for nothing, so that's never been an issue. I think I just am a confident person and I am steadfast in my decisions. No one ever really throws me shade or makes me feel uncomfortable about it. And maybe I just don't pay attention because I don't care, you know, like those little slights of like, well, you might change your mind. It's like, oh my god, shut up. You know when people put those things on you, that's because it's they're feeling some sort of way that you've chosen to make a decision that they have in So I don't let those things bother me. I just know it's a decision that's right for me, and I don't feel like it's a big deal, you know. So it's like that just makes it me easier to flow through the world with this decision. But I feel for people that are struggling with it, whatever it may be, And those are just conversations that you have to open communication and conversations you have to have. We're so lucky to have so many different resources today with podcasts, internet, books of how to even the language to use when it comes to this type of thing, and you can sit and rehearse it if you need to. Potential partners. Again, it's just something that I feel comfortable sharing. Um, I wouldn't want to get down a road with somebody where I felt like things were getting serious and hadn't come up, because I wouldn't even probably start to date somebody if I knew they really wanted a family. So that's been It was like a fear of mine that I would find somebody that I really felt for that really wanted a family, and it hasn't happened. Jed and I've dated guys that either didn't want children as well or could go either way, and it wasn't really something that was so important to them. So I am fine if it comes up date one. Yeah, it comes out sometimes if it's in a conversation. It's been part of someone tried to insult me one saying it was part of my personality at this point. Yeah, it is. So it's like it comes up, and if I'm asked, I'm open about it. So I think these things you just have to own them. Yeah, you know, like that's just what it is, you know, seeing so many more women chair that they don't want to. Yeah, it's not you know, we're out there. Absolutely. I always think it's funny when people say, like, you'll change your mind. It's like when you tell me you want kids, I don't tell you to change the mind. It's so funny to me. And we did this episode and it was really so beautiful and we tried really hard to not judge anybody's decisions because we don't. We don't care. If you want to be a mom, that's amazing. If you don't, then don't be a mom. Um. But the amount of people that wrote us and said I grew up never knowing I had a choice, I thought this was a foregone conclusion. I'm one of those people as well, just always thought like, well, of course a lot of kids. Everybody has kids, you know. So many mothers wrote us and said like, I love my kids, but I don't know that I would have chosen this if I knew that I could have had another options we got were heartbreaking. Yeah for mothers. Yeah, then we're like, I don't think I should have had kids, you know when that, like Rana said, I love my kids, but we were like whoa, Like yeah, yeah. People felt like it was a safe space to share the type of guilt that they feel. It's not a big community that exists that you can tell your other mom friends like I hate this, you know, and I can't really because I'm not a mother. I'm not in these mom forums. But I know that there's a lot of judgment, you know, I'm sure it's not a very popular thing to say, like I made a mistake. You know. Um, it's a huge decision to make, and to each their own, it's not necessarily a decision I'm gonna make, um, But yeah, it was. It was hard to see a lot of people say, you know, I just didn't know. I didn't know that I could make another decision. And there's been so much writing, especially since COVID, that so many women are foregoing having children, and I love that, like we can talk about this now and it's not so taboo. And I remember when I told my mom I didn't think I wanted to have kids. I'm not at one hundred percent like Ashley is, but um, I'm aging out of kids. So you're not freezing your eggs. I'm not freezing any eggs. I told my mom I didn't think I wanted to have kids, and it was a really bad situation, and I don't think I think I approached it really flippantly and I insulted her choice to have children, and I think I said something like, well, I don't need to have kids to make my life mean something, and she was like, you think you think my life didn't mean anything without you like, you know, so, I think that I was kind of hurtful in my words and I didn't think about it, and I was just like, what's the difference. My life means a lot to a lot of people. And she was like, so, I think that you do have to you know, tread lightly with family and also sharing that yeah, no, yeah, ultimately going to approach it with compassion. Yeah. I did not choose my words while it was a really bad fight because I insulted her choices in life. And my mom accepts anything. Our parents were really lucky. Our parents just accept whatever we do. But I think that you just tread a little bit lightly. And you know, my mom wasn't mad that I said I didn't want kids. She was mad at my delivery about it. Yeah. That's such a great point. I mean, I think so often you could be making a really good decision for yourself. But it's what you just said. It's reflected and projected in a way onto our insecurity about them, or a flow we see in them, or a challenge in them. And I love that you brought that point out because I think it's so important to communicate and say it because it's for us, right it's about you. It's about you as the individual. Even the way you were saying Ashley, I think there's so much strength encourage when you're like, this is my decision. I'm owning it and I'm dealing with it and how it reflects on me. But thank you for opening up and sharing that, because oh yeah, people love this topic with us. And it really was actually approach the topic originally, but my mom it was she was just sort of like, oh, you think you're so successful you don't need kids, but I needed them. You know. It came off not very nice. Yeah, so, but I will say having a new nephew, I get it. It doesn't make me one kids, but I feel different down the inside, Like the love that I have for this baby is like I can't I could like cry right now. Just was I miss them so actively every day? Like it did not make me want to have children. Would be very clear. It's still no part of it I'm interested in, but it's like made me understand it more or something where I'm like, yeah, I really I get it, y'all. And those I feel for you even more that are kind of struggling with this in the first place because it's really beautiful. It made me want them and not want them. I'll tell you why. He's the cutest. He just brings so much love to the room and everyone. It just brings everyone together in such a beautiful wh Your sister in law, like it's around the clock. I see how hard she works to just you know, be a great mother. And christ dinner and she cooked this great Christmas dinner and then she had to go upstairs and feeling and eat this dinner. And I was like, I don't want that nightmare last to eat. And I cooked it and paid for it no thing. So she is such a good mom. And I think sometimes good parenting is looking at that and going I wouldn't be good at that, and I'm not gonna do that. I don't want to be bothered. Okay, I'm eating first. That's what it is. Right when you're looking at the baby for two hours a day, it's very different than yeah, being with the baby. I will say, I want to tell you this. I just feel like you'll appreciate it. Is that we talked about this on the episode of Like there's this tiny thing in the back of your head that you just don't want to die alone. You know like you may not be with your spouse if you ever got married, or your friends could be dead, or you won't have your parents anymore, like your family, your immediate family has gone, and so there's that little thing in the back of your head that you know. For me, it's like I watched my mom tend to my grandmother when she is dying, and we all had a very close relationship, and it's like what happens when I'm in my grandmother's place, or when I'm dying, or I'm in hospice or I'm sick or whatever, And so it doesn't make me want to do it, but there is that thing, at least in my head, and I think in other people's too. And we did this episode and we got this maybe I shouldn't have brought this up. We got this email from this hospice nurse and she was like, I, your fears are so valid, but like, I just want to tell you too that you will have people with you at the end and you've built this life for yourselves and you'll be surrounded by people that you love. And it took me out, like I was like, what a beautiful message to ease those fears and that you will have people around you and you will be surrounded by love in your final days. Like morbid as that sounds, but it was really nice to hear from someone who witnesses those things happen every day. Yeah, and the really the greatest gift of this podcast is it has given me better friends, given Ashley and I a reason to travel and tour and reconnect with friends from college and high school. And it's made my relationship with my parents better, my brother, it just it's made me a better person. And I think about her daughter, sister, friend, all of that. So that's such a gift. And now, yes, I know I'll be surrounded by people because I've used this podcast is therapy for myself. And we get to interview people like you, our listeners. Yeah, they're at the end. I'll do a live stream. Yeah, I'm gonna stream my dad. Okay, people can call in. Well, I'll be a lot of feed like in the zoo or you watch the penguins at the hospital. Yeah, anyway, No, thank you for taking today. I mean, honestly, I can tell why people are addicted listening to you both. It's very addictive, it's contagious, it's it's amazing energy. I fully agree that whoever you decided to choose to be with and your chooses to be with, both of you are going to have such a great relationship. Think I've such a great time, just just love spending this time with you. And even to hear how reflective than thoughtful and how deep and just the amount of self work that you've both done is unbelievable. And to see it in display in this way is is really inspiring. And I hope that everyone who's listening on watching can see that you can have fun and think deeply at the same time, which is which is important because I think there's this belief that like, oh, you can just be silly and stupid, or you can be really thoughtful and reflective, and I think you both walk that path really wonderfully. So that really means the world, you know, it really does, because it's like people are dynamic, and you can go on stage and do all the stuff and at the end of the day still be like an intelligent person with depth and you can have conversations like this. So I really appreciate that really means a lot. We'd try to make our show like that. That's we call it a comedy show about dating and relationships, and we've done really wild episodes with porn stars, but we've talked about sexual assault and abortion and really heavy stuff. So we're really proud of that. We hope that I came across, So thank you for saying yeaheah, definitely, No, definitely, I'm hoping this will be the first of many. So today's Today's a good intro for anyone who doesn't already love you and follow you. But we end every episode with the final five, and so I'm gonna have to ask you, but you can decide who goes first. I don't wind, but you will have to answer the same questions. Okay, so question number one, what is the best relationship advice you've ever heard, received, or given? So I think the best relationship advice we've heard, or I can give it one of one sence. Yeah, this is going to sound counterintuitive, but the thing that's going to make you the best partner is building a life for yourself that you are proud of. That is our that's our whole show's montra, it's yours, it's yours right now, own it. It's actually has to come up with their own one. Now, actually watch that clip. Make a list of the person you want and be that person. No, I think it, but that's what I think will make you the perfect partner and the best version of yourself you built. You've already won, You've already won the second place to fine, I mean listen again. It might sound counterintuitive to like manifesting and visualizing, but I really do stand by it might not look like what we thought was going to look like. I love that anything you know, your life, but your relationship. Just relax, just chill, I'm not even so heavy. Just relax, all right. Second question, what's the worst relationship advice you've ever heard, received or given? Change yourself defend to somebody else's life right now with The quick answer is absolutely just stupid stuff like don't sleep with someone up to like fourteen dates rules. Yeah, any rules like we just really try to. I think sex rules. I think it's crazy and we have like I'm not saying you should always sleep with them on the first I mean I just think those things like bog you down. Question number three, what's something you used to value in relationships that you don't anymore? I mean, I guess you don't need to play a d one or pro sport that I only used to want to be with athletes. You don't have to be an athlete, Okay, got it. I don't know. I feel like I just keep adding to that because the bar started so low. It was just like do you have a pulse? No, I don't value anymore because I was never one of those girls. Was like a day guy with money and finance, Like I wasn't one of those people. Like it's really it's gone backwards for me. It's just you don't have to be a pro. Yeah, I just had the bar was so low before, so nothing just keep adding question Numberfore, what's one episode on your podcast that you'd love everyone to listen to? Oh, it's just what are you looking for for this community? For this? I liked this episode we did called You're Not the One because I feel like it goes in cannon with this today and it's just about breaking up with those people that are not the one. Yeah. Um. We did do an episode with Lane Moore um in the New year about um, what do we what do we call it's not being how to be alone? How to be alone? Along that line last year twenty twenty two, and we're going to talk to you about that on our show as glum. But yeah, I mean so much of this is just checking with yourself being a good version of yourself. We did do a relationship with Lori Gottlieb, who's a psychotherapist about Yeah, we love her, she's been twice. Both the episodes with her were great, but we did wanted to fall about strengthening your relationship mother daughter relationships. It's applicable to any parent relationship, but it really, I think helped a lot of people. So if you're looking for anything like that, I think it's really special. And everything's on our website every one episode we've ever done. You go to girls scotta dot com. fIF the final question, what's your biggest piece of relationship advice for each other this year twenty twenty three. I feel like my piece of advice for Raina has always been about the same and it's just don't go down the road with people that are not emotionally available and wouldn't be a good match. And I feel like I can sometimes see it on answer more than one sense, but I can kind of sometimes see that when she can because she's in it, and so I just would continue on that road if like pick partners. That makes sense, Um, I think for you because you just in the past and just said I don't care about being a relationship this year. Just to prioritize it this year and to just give yourself some grace that you don't need to work seven days a week and you don't need to work at ten pm, and like you're allowed to take days off, and you're allowed to prioritize yourself and just be in the moment and be happy, and you don't need to just be working all the time. You're allowed, perfession to stop working. Love it. When she told me, actually, you run the company, you don't work today, and I was like, what, I don't reminder this company? She was like, I feel really stressed. Yeah, I really backed down. I was like, we own the company. You could take the day. But I think that you know, she has a really full life, as do I, but just talking about her, she has a really full life and all these friends, and she works really hard, and so it can be easy to be like, I don't have anything left in the tank today. So you you your intention is to date, so I think you should do it. I'm trying to energetically make space beautiful. I love that, Rna. Actually, this has been so fun to talk to you. Everyone has been listening and watching. Wherever you are, make sure you tag Rna, Ashley and me with your biggest insights, takeaways, tips, moments that made you laugh, allowed, whatever worked for you, and stuff that you're practicing trying out this year as well, And make sure that you go and listen to and subscribe to Girls Got to Eat as well if you want more of Raina and Ashually in your life. Raina actually, thank you so much for the opportunity, the joy. So grateful to both of you, and thanks for joining on purpose. Thank you, thank you. If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships