Off The Beat with Brian BaumgartnerWearing child-sized headphones, Brian hears from actor’s actor Josh Pais. Apart from his fruitful career in film and television, they go deep about physical acting technique, the theoretical physics of using a toaster oven, and uncovering his story to shed the image of “that guy”. Brian helps him uncover his own story, from being one of the original Ninja Turtles, developing his own method of actor training, and now writing his own book. Josh can be seen starring in A Man in Full, now streaming on Netflix.
I had directed one project that started out I did this at Circle Rep Lab, Okay, and it started out where all the actors were there was. I brought in I think maybe three hundred pounds of peat moss into this sphere.
Yeah, and the.
Show started where the actors were lying under the peat moss with just like just their faces, you know, and hope it and the audience had to kind of navigate through that. They were guided somewhat, you know. And then at some point, you know, this crazy music starts happening and they're like vibrating kind of coming out of the soil.
Yeah, you know, it's like, gosh, we are very I mine was sand coming out of sand. Oh my god. This is a different coming out of being born out of sand. And I was I was, I was the I was the bad guy in that. And at the at the end, like the wicked Witch, I descended and melted down into the sand at the very end of the show. Yep, all the elements, all the elements.
Got to find this material.
Okay, all right, Hi, I'm.
Josh Pie and I'm sitting in a chair.
Hello everybody. I am excited to have you back here with me on another edition. Of Off the Beat. I am, of course, your host Brian Baumgartner on the show today, we have that guy, you know.
The one.
I mean, he's been on all your favorite shows and movies and was the original Well Rafael in Teenage Mutant, Ninja Turtles, he was on Law and Order, The Sopranos, a beautiful mind, joker. He's worked with just about every actor out there, and he's been in the business for over thirty years. I know you know him, of course, I am talking about my guest today, Josh Eyes. Josh will be the first to tell you that he has made a very long and very successful career of being that guy, not quite in the limelight, but always a strong supporting role in really fantastic projects. When you see that face, you know it is going to be great, even if you can't exactly think of his name. His most recent project Man in Full, which is out for you right now on Netflix. Now. I'm pretty sure this conversation will help you remember him once and for all. He's smart, he is charming, he is so very very talented. He's that guy and so much more. He is Josh Pies, Bubble and Squeak.
I love it.
Bubble and squeak on.
Bubble and squeak.
I cook get every mole lift over from the nine before. Hi Josh, Hi, Hi Josh. How are you.
I'm good, nice to meet you and.
Very nice to meet you as well. Thank you for joining me today. I'm going to get the elephant out of the way right now. I'm wearing my very small kids headphones right now. They have stickers on them. I left my headphones on a plane this last weekend.
Wow, and are you going to be able to get them back?
Or I think they're I think they were pretty nice, so I think they're gone. I'm assuming they're gone. I bought some new ones and could not make them work here today, So there you go. I've got some.
Hey, I think they look great on you. I think it should be your new look.
Yeah, I mean it's I think I think they're pinching my head a little bit. So there's a way to excuse anything stupid that comes out of my mouth. They will just leave it at that. Uh, it's very nice to meet you. What a career that you've had, and uh, I've been a fan of yours for a very long time. Likewise, like well, that's that's very kind. But now I know more about you, having dive doven doved into uh, into your life dove in. I understand you very interesting childhood, some some parents that were well it's it seems quite different. But you grew up there in New York.
City, in Alphabet City.
Out in in New York City, in Alphabet City.
In alphabet city, you know what Alphabet city.
I mean, yes, of course, yes, But.
I mean were we out buying heroin? You know? You know thirty years ago you were in my neighborhood, you know.
A little more gentrified now though to be to.
Be clear, it's totally gentrified now.
Yeah, yeah, but that.
You know, back then, it was just the police just kind of cordoned off the you know from First Avenue East, uh, and they just they knew it was completely out of control. You know, it was just a it was a drug world. It was violent and it was also full of creative people, so it was a great mix. And if you lived there, you were protected. But anybody coming in, no taxis wouldn't go past, you know, Avenue A.
Yeah, I this is about you, but I do have to bring up your dad is about you? Well, it's always here's the thing. It's always about me, So I just pretend it's about other people to really get my own, my own attenda across. Uh, your dad, as a physicist, survived the Holocaust in the Netherlands, worked with Albert Einstein and and ended up writing his biography. He I understand, ended up on the Upper east Side. So you had this life in New York in part of the time in Alphabet City and and part of the time on the Upper east Side. Yes, what do you think that that gave you as a child, that sort of diverse experience even in one city.
I mean, it gave me a very broad view of life. You know. It was the Upper East Side was very at that time, it was really the posh neighborhood and you know, very affluent, and you know, in Alphabet City it was poverty, you know, and struggle and people thriving on struggle like they felt, yeah, I'm struggling.
It's I'm a badass, right, like a badge. Ward is a badge, Yeah.
To a certain extent. Yeah, And so it just gave me this incredibly broad spectrum. It was like the perfect childhood for an actor, just to be immersed in these two different cultures. And seeing how these different people survived and lived and thrived and created. Yeah, I mean, there was going to be more to that sentence, but it just.
Then it's stuck. No, but it's I mean, you know, we're obviously going to talk about where you ended up and what you're doing now, but at the time it's clearly like rich character study material. I mean, these two worlds at the time as a child, are you acknowledging that or just observing? Is there anything within yourself even at that young age where you're you begin studying, for lack of a better phrase, the human condition or by by by the different people that you're encountering.
I think on some level I was, and on also on some level in Alphabet city, like you had, I had to be able to assess who people were on the street and who is dangerous and who was cool and who you know, So it there was a certain survival strategy in my ability to read people quickly and get where they were at. And I think I think on some level I was a little anthropologist, you know, because the worlds were so diverse, So I think I think I was. I think I had a bit of awareness of how unusual.
This was Yeah, do you feel like Alphabet City and the people there. I mean you talk about needing to identify, I know exactly what you mean. You walk into a situation and it's like, okay, there, this is good, this is safe, this is maybe not. Was there a feeling of community there? Like was there a safeness if you were there and you belonged there that you felt protected in a way.
It was beautiful, just beauty, a full community and it was. There was some racial tension, but there was not a lot of racial tension relative to the mix of different people that were there because we were all in it together. And you know, there was one guy and he always he would say, you know, he would say, I've got eyes in the back of my head for you. I'm looking out for you. You know, I got your back.
Wow.
And he was an American Indian man named Reno Thunder who was an actor no longer around. And you know, and I also got to see like, for example, just with Reno, like this very dynamic, powerful man. And he got evicted from his apartment and he's he ended up living in Tompkins Square Park, do you know what I mean. So it was just like so intense to see that level of struggle and that level of how uncertain things were. I mean, everything really is uncertain, but you know, we strive to live in the illusion that it's not as uncertain as it is. But that was a very uncertain environment, which also was I think challenging as a kid. You know that it was like somebody just took acid and jumped out the window of an abandoned building. You know, somebody just got got killed on the street, or somebody is making this amazing art. You know, they found a piano and they're taking all the piano parts and they're making this amazing sculpture, you know, and you know, so it's just like everything was out, nothing was in everything, Like people just expressed themselves fully on the street. Again. Kind of great childhood for an actor, just to be exposed to that.
Yeah, I was going to ask you, and you sort of answered my question before I asked it that you know, it's known as being incredibly diverse, dangerous, but also sort of bohemian and artistic. Do you feel like that was nurtured by you?
Oh? Yeah, I mean my mom was a painter and a poet, you know, and she always you know, told me like being an artist is the ultimate thing you can be and just create, make something, make something every day, whether it's a little drawing or a poem or something. And we had performances in our performance art in our living room where people would gather and there would be music and people would get up and improvise something. And there was there was this one cab driver, this guy named Billy, and he would always pull in, he'd park his cab outside and he'd come in and he he would bring a bowler hat and he would do like waiting for Geodo, Like he would take his hat off and do one part and at that point, like because he always did the same thing, like people would just kind of check out and be like, you know, I'm gonna go get some wine right.
Now, you know whatever.
But it was just like full of full of characters, full of.
Yeah, you know, I think that everybody, depending on who you're with, right is at times playing versions of themselves. Right. You behave in a certain way depending on who you're with, whether it's your grandparents or you know, your your buddies on the street and Alphabet City or whatever. It seems to me looking at your career later on and again the teaching that you have done. That it seems like you potentially attended your own master class as a young age being there in Alphabet City, and then you go to your dad's on the Upper East Side and you're encountering I imagine, a whole different sort of cast of characters which forces you to very specifically probably behave and act in a totally different way. Not that you're being not yourself, but as I like to say, a different version of yourself. Do you feel like that training early on was real?
Well, I definitely, I definitely did that.
You know.
My mom was very unstructured, free flowing whatever, you know, I didn't have to be home at any particular time, and my dad was very structured, and so I had to fall in line with you know, with that structure. And then you know, and then just being around these theoretical physicists, you know, was fascinating, you know.
Different, different than Billy the cab driver.
Different, a little different. Yeah, and so many of these these physicists, you know, like my dad for example, like absolutely brilliant, but in certain like he got a toaster oven, I remember, you know, and I and it was so complex, like I had to go over. You know, you first you put this setting, then you open the door, then you put the bread in close it, then you press the button and he would write that down like it was so like, and so many of them were so their brains were so amazing in these certain areas. In other areas, it's all the focus went one right into one area. And what interesting with physicists is they would always compete with jokes, which was always interesting. They would always try to, you know, tell a better joke, whether they were actually funny, they were somewhat funny, but they were very drawn.
Out, okay, like joke stories, joke stories. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I know you went to Syracuse. You studied acting and directing there. Something that I like to talk to everybody about, is there a moment for you where because look, you're performing in first your mom's living room, then you start to develop a taste. Were you solid in what your path was going to be before you went to Syracuse? Did you go there with that in mind?
Yeah? I was. I was pretty I was pretty solid about it.
Yeah.
Yeah, I kind of knew it. I knew it, and you know, there were certain experiences that I had at Syracuse. That woke parts of me up. You know, there was a familiar with this dude, Jersey Gretowski, who is of course Polish. Yeah, you know. And I had a teacher that had just come back who was working with him, and and you know, she introduced us to this physical work of like pushing yourself beyond your mind, basic like getting so tuned into your body and your impulses that the you know, the mind ceased to be the dominant force. And that was that was like a real awakening for me. And I was like, this is what I want. I want, I want to how can I make how can I live in this arena? So like that like that that sunk things in on another level.
Yeah, it's it's fascinating to me again because you called me out and said it's about me, but about me. I had a very similar experience and ended up starting a theater company when I graduated from college, and our first original work was we called it the Ki Kurtowski Experience and it was a company created work that was literally that like like working your body, very physical for those of you who don't know. And then ended up working in sort of totally a different way for a long period of time with some folks from the Chocolate Cox School, which was physical but in a different, more comedy based way. So yeah, no, I know what you mean. It's like, oh, okay, here's you know, a loud guy with good instincts, and now it's like, oh, look at the world that actually exists here, and then I have to explore Yeah, yeah for me as well.
Do you have footage of that? Do you have any footage of that?
You know what? I have not thought about that in so long.
I'm gonna think it's time to bring out, you know, the.
Experience Grotowski experiment. And then there was a a colon and then there was something else and as you were talking, I couldn't. I can't. I can't remember at the moment what it is, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna find out. Yeah, it's uh.
Don't very similar paths because I was I was so deep into all of that and creating directing. I had directed one project that started out I did this at Circle Rep Lab, okay, and it started out where all the actors were there was I brought in I think maybe three hundred pounds of peat moss into this sphere. Yeah, and the show started where the actors were lying under the peat moss, just like just their faces, you know, and hope it and the audience had to kind of navigate through that. They were guided somewhat, you know. And then at some point, you know, this crazy music starts happening and they're like vibrating, kind of coming out of the soil.
Yeah, you know, it's like, gosh, we are I mine was sand coming out of sand. Oh my god. This is a different coming out of being born out of sand. And I was I was, I was the I was the bad guy in that. And at the at the end, like the wicked witch, I descended and melted down into the sand. And at the very end of the show. Yep, all the elements, all the elements.
Uh so got to find this material.
Okay, all right, all right, that that last one I I have. I definitely have that somewhere. Look, the shows that you have been in and played in in some cases significant recurring roles. You have a decade's long career, and yet you you seem to, based on what I've read, consider yourself that guy. Uh even on on on your Instagram, bio, your your reps, so you know, called you a face you recognize, but when a story still left to be told? What does what does that mean to you?
Mm? It mean let's see, let's figure this out. Help me. I mean a face to be recognized. Yeah, I have a certain you know. People are like oh oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah you you hey, I know, I know you and and like some people are like almost like come up quietly, like I really I know you are I know, like it's you know, like it's a big secret, the story to be told. I don't know.
You know, do you enjoy being that guy? Do you do you enjoy that?
Yeah? I do. It's sometimes I'll have the situation where, you know, I'll go into a store and they'll be like, oh, we went to camp together, and I was like, no, no, I never went to camp. And it's like no, no, I know you from oh you've been in the store before. No no. And then it's like and this happens all the time, and then and then that eventually I'll go like I'm an actor and they'll be like no, no, no, no, that's not it, you know, and this is just regular you know. And then there's people that they know me and they know how they know me. You know, they know me from Ray Donovan or you know what, Law and Order or whatever it may be.
I want to attempt to tell at least a part of your story for those of you who don't know. Josh started out doing spots on television in well, just little shows like Cosby's Show, Murphy Brown. I mean, you're working on iconic and at the time, humongous shows that truly like everyone is watching, and not just everybody is watching like today, everyone is watching at exactly the same time on eight o'clock on a Thursday or whatever. So you're starting there, and you're starting I'm sure to get recognized for this work because everybody is watching it, and then pretty quickly you get like an enormous break. You're cast as one of the teenage mutant ninja turtles. At the time, does this feel like a big break for you? Wh your face is not seen? So it's a weird like thing, right, It.
Was so weird? Yeah, it was. It was so immersive and it was almost similar to Gretowski work because Christ is so physical and so absolutely engaging. I mean just the cost of you know, costume was seventy pounds. None of the little dots, you know, right, the body is like you're fucking carrying this dude, you know, seventy pounds.
And you're the only actor who did the voice and strapped on and got in there. I mean, you love Gratowski the physical stuff. Did were you happy with this choice that you made this choice at the time, or did you begin to regret that choice?
Well, I mean I'm not somebody that just in the act of filming it, like, I'm not somebody that experiences claustrophobia, Like it's not something, it's not a concern. But I experienced major claustrophobia. You know, like you are completely sealed in, your head is glued on, and you're it's hard to breathe, it's hard to see, you know, and your body just gets hotter and hotter.
You know.
We would lose five pounds from morning till lunch. You know, they had just impressed air. So it was just, you know, there were times where it was like this is insane. But it also helped to create that character Raphael, you know, who was like full of angst and rage and you know, so it's like it was perfect. It couldn't have been a better preparation. And it was. It was weird because when it came out, you know, there was I remember one day I was with Leif Tilden, who played Donatello. We were hanging out on the beach and this kid had a teenage hutant ninja turtle towel and he was running around all around the beach and was going, I'm an ninja turtle, I'm an inja turtle. And we stopped him and said, hey, I'm Raphael, and this is Donna Tllo, you know, and his face crumbled, you know, and he ran to his mother like you know, he was you know, seeing two petal files or something, you know, And yeah, it was bizarre. It was a bizarre experience because it was the hit movie of that year, huge, huge, Yeah, and it continues to you know, the impact that it's had on people. People reach out to me all the time like, oh that was my childhood and blah blah blah. So it was it was very bizarre to yeah, to be in that and to not be recognized. And it also, you know, there was something about also being in where I grew up, in that neighborhood that I also had to be invisible at times. I had to kind of maneuver my way through without being seen. So it was like kind of an interesting dynamic playing out.
Yeah. Yeah, I imagine crazy. I mean, I guess tend to an enormous animated role that is created and becomes the big thing. But you also having the physicality giving you know, having you doing the physicality, really creating that character and how people view it as well, and still not being seen. That that's very it's very interesting and kind of like doesn't exist anymore, particularly with all of the as you say, the dots all over.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they wanted they wanted to keep us. They didn't want to destroy the illusion. You know, although I can't do Kathy and Regis, you know, I did.
Things like that, right, but they they wanted your anonymity specifically, I mean to a large degree.
Yeah, yeah, especially in the first three or four months. Yeah, then they started to open it up a bit.
Yeah. For a long time, you played on a series, and again it's not overstating it to say, you know, millions and millions and millions of people watching as appointment television Law and or both Law and Order and Law and Order SVU, which undoubtedly took away a lot of your anonymity, especially in New York City. You know, I had the experience to work on SVU. Not a more professional set and environment is possible, particularly for hour long network television than what exists on those sets. And you know, as sort of a huge, huge recurring role on this big show, you're spending a lot of time there. Talk to me about your experience on set and if that gave you anything in terms of of confidence or that you learned something that you were able to take moving forward because of how well that show was operated.
Mm hmm. I mean it was especially you know, I was in it, you know, the Mothership as they call it, the original like from the first season, and it was especially in the first season like it was testosterone. It was like you're gonna walk here, We're gonna turn here, the camera's gonna come here, turn here on this line, and let's let's go. Let's go. You know that it simmered down, you know, as you know I went there. Yeah, but that's how you know, that's how it started. I mean for me, I you know, for a long time, I played the medical examiner. Yeah, and I came up with this notion which helped, you know, which helped make it more live for me that I was I was solving the case and these detectives were idiots, you know what I mean. And that kind of gave me a certain and almost like a resentment towards them that they were getting the accolades for solving the case. And somehow just making that little choice it made it a very active It turned something on creatively for me because I had to say so much technical jargon, right, but it gave it gave me an angle in which to have fun with this character and with these guys.
Oh, I love that, And it's so clear in your work. It's I mean, it is so clear that that there is as opposed to let's just call it a more tradition, an old procedural show and performance, that there's a life there. I feel like a lot on the mother Ship. There were a lot of guys on the mother Ship who had clearly took some sort of perspective week to week that played out in some way that gave that show life. Yeah, that's very interesting.
Yeah, And I always try to find something that turns me on creatively so that I don't act basically, so that I don't get caught up in how to say a line, because you know, if we get too caught up in that's it's dead.
Yeah, in looking over your career, I always anytime I see the Sopranos, it stands out to me. I saw you, and I'm watching it again. By the way, right now, I haven't quite gotten to your.
Done that yet, but I'm I know that's coming. So you haven't watched now, I haven't watched. I haven't watched. You know. I watched it when it was sure, you know, when it was unfolding, and then every now and then I'll catch you know, and I'm like, God, this is it's going to be such a treat. How consistently are you watching it?
Well, they suckered me in. It hasn't been that long since I watched it the last time. I mean, it's not like I've seen it fourteen times, but I I I don't. It was like Max had just some you know, DVD like image and it says twenty fifth anniversary or thirty I don't even remember. And I just saw that and I was like, oh, yeah, let's give that another watch. And I just started it and now I'm like in season four and but that a number of other shows, both in New York and elsewhere, they you've had tremendous I imagine experiences. Anything stand out from your guest star stints on shows like Damages, Sex and the City, The Sopranos, star Trek, Anything stand out for you in terms of a show that changed something for you, that potentially you found even after working on all of these other things for a period of time, or that was particularly memorable for you.
I mean, on so many levels. I feel like every show I go into these shows looking to learn and just kind of fascinated by how other people work. I mean when you said Damages, you know, I had this great thing with Ted Danson, scenes with him, and it was just what I strive for in my self and what I am so excited when I am exposed to it in other actors is the dance of going into the unknown. Like we know our lines, but it's like going into the unknown and like how is it gonna How is this take going to play out? It's like, oh, the energy's going here now, it's going here, right, And that's you know, so many of those shows that you mentioned, you know, the actors were so so game to play. I'll tell you like a horrible experience I had on Law and Order if you want to hear all experience. So I was directed. I was actually directing one of these crazy plays at the time while I was recurring on that. And they called and they said, oh, we have a new episode.
You know.
I think they called on a Wednesday and they said, oh, we have a new episode. It's you're on Friday and so, and I was in the middle of directing this play and it was like, okay, great, So you know, I get the script. I don't have time to read the whole script. I go, I find my part, learn, learn those lines, go wait in the I'm in my dressing room and then and somebody comes in and goes like, okay, we're going to do this scene first, And it was what do you mean, wait, what do you mean this scene first? And it's like there's another scene, you know, at the end of the and I'm like, and I just you know, and it was so much jargon, you know, it was so much technical you know, and it's in, well, there's a corpse on the table. And so I'm in there doing that scene and it was like on a Friday, and the crew was like they want to go home right, just you know, bobbling the lines and Jerry Orbach is like, you know, who would become a friend. But he's like this is insane, you know, and he starts to get learn my lines, you know, and I get to a place and I you know, I don't know what the and he kind of you know, ruins the take and he says it's this, you know. Anyway, that was that was that was a nightmare. I'm just having a little PTSD on that one right now. But I mean Sex and the City. It was just it felt like there was such a nurturing of like it just felt like highly creative, like people were on all those shows were it felt like there was experimentation and yeah, they were just very creative. Okay, I got nothing else on that.
No, but that makes sense, which which leads me to something that I'm sure people don't know about you. You are, well, dare I say, a master teacher. You have been working and coaching actors for a long long time, and throughout your career you've developed and honed a method of acting called committed impulse. Tell me tell me about that.
I mean that how how that emerged was after I went to Syracuse. You know, I was exposed to this Grotowski work and you know, nothing against Syracuse, but it was like very Stanislavsky, very heady stuff. Yes, and it made sense, but it didn't. It didn't work for me. And so I went on a journey like training with people like directors and you know, from all over the world that were doing very physical, very impulsive training. And then after that Circle rep, this off Broadway theater company that had had their own space, They said, why don't I train people in what I've learned? And the deal was I would train them, I would direct them in something that we created together, but every three months we would show the work that we were doing to an audience, like an open rehearsal. And from doing that, people started asking me to teach. And I was like, I'm not a teacher. I don't know what teaching is, blah blah blah, and then NYU asked me to teach, and I was like okay. And so, you know, so I just started teaching and experimenting and saw that what really stops people creatively is two things, and one is the thoughts in their heads, the crap that cycles through basically, I suck, this isn't going well? What do they think of me? All that mental chatter and that stops people creatively and also body sensations fear, anxiety, nervousness that also hampers people's creativity. It doesn't have to, but it tends to. And so I began experimenting, like, how how do we how can I help actors break through this? And so part of the work is to instead of, you know, the common kind of self help notion that's out there is if you're nervous, like how can you find a way to get rid of it? And how can you manage it? And so on? And what I've been experimenting with is, instead of trying to manage it or alter it or get rid of it, is how can you increase your tolerance for your full range of body experience and just to assume that everything you're experiencing is built into your DNA and to broaden this the range of which you can allow yourself to stay present while whatever is happening is happening. And that I've found that as soon as somebody is feeling something that they don't like, say nervousness or fear, they suppress it however they to you know, however consciously or unconsciously, they do it. And as soon as we suppress this energy in our body, our mind goes off and so our mind gets really active. And so it's really allowing all this energy to travel through the body, and that if you fully connect to whatever's there, it really shifts in seven to twelve seconds. And so if you can stay on the train, stay on the train of experience, it will it will shift. If you try to manage it or get rid of it, it's like trapping a little squirrel in a cage and you're just like stuck with it.
Right.
So that's that's kind of one of it. And then I came up with these four access points to presence, you know, which very simply is staying in your body, connecting with your immediate environment, keeping your breath going. And then as soon as you're aware that your mind has got you, you say I'm back. And so in my class a lot, you know, people are like, I'm back, I'm back. Well, i'm back, you know, so fascinating. Yeah, So that's that's that's part of it. And then there's these tools called inner atomics, which are ways of altering the energetic patterns in the body to stimulate your creativity and create behavior and create character so that it's all very organic.
Do you feel to create a character physically? Do you do you like to start from zero? Are you trying to get your students to a place of neutrality right? I mean there's at least if you look at I don't know, Alexander technique or something where you're trying to make sure everything is flowing, that we're at a place of sort of neutrality that you work from there. Are you Are you thinking more in terms of a person's own I mean place of neutrial?
I mean I would say it's more starting exactly where you are, okay, yeah, and not to make relaxation better than a little sense of fear. You know, like starting with wherever that being is and if they happen to be relaxed, that's awesome. But if they're not relaxed, then you have to create with what's there, and then it's you know, all the tools to creating character. Like I know, for me, when I first started out, it was like, how can I create something to hide behind? And that gen rated a lot of off off, off, off, Broadway working in basements if I was lucky, and then you know, when I fet realized, like, oh I have how can I reveal myself in the character. That's when I started getting work.
Who are your favorite actors to watch today in film or television?
Where I mean walking Phoenix is okay?
That gosh, I love it when we're obviously you had the opportunity which I just watched on a plane that I lost my headphones on, and that I've been watching The Sopranos. I did take a break knowing the Joker too is coming out to watch Joker and your performance in that, and you know, in reading about you and then hearing you just talk to me, there's there are I'm not going to say none, but there are very few actors working at such a high level that I feel like live and express in their body like Joaquin does. Yeah.
Yeah, And every take that we did, like he came in, he was different than the previous take, which led me to be different, you know, which is the that's the bravery of actors to be able to, you know, step into the unknown fully committed and let and letting, letting, trusting that it's going to unfold. Perfectly.
Did you talk about it at all? Or just let it happened?
We just let it happen. Like he was, he was in the zone, and that set was so concentrated like he was, so he was so in this that it created absolute concentration, you know, as you know, like typically as soon as the director calls cut, like there's chaos, you know, everybody's like what are you doing later? You know, and like and then there's like you know, and then some lights get adjusted, and then there's this other period of time where it's like what's happening, Like why aren't we filming? You know, and it's like this it's like every wait a minute, everything set up, you know what we get.
What are we doing? Yeah?
But with this, it like it was quiet, it was concentrated, it was focused. I've never heard anybody say this is how we're it needs to be. It was just that level of concentration and commitment to the work extending from Joaquin outward. It just generated this amazing focus so that we could let things unfold, let that magic happen.
Yeah. I love to hear that, and partly why I love to hear it, and look, let's I mean I'm certainly not going to say that Joker is a barrel of laughs. Incredibly dark and brooding, difficult, one might say, but also very playful, very mischievous and light in a way at times that is, by the way unexpected, which of course draws you in more and more. And to hear that the set was well, not reference earlier like your dad, very organized, very on point, very orderly, not a lot of shenan agains or you know, unnecessary lapses or breaks, just on point. But by creating that structure, and I saw in your performance as well some ability to play, and I just yeah, I love to hear that.
Well it it invited it. You know, it was like there was concentrations so that when the camera was rolling, it could it could, it could drift and float and pound and shift. You know, it created that. That's you know, that structure. If you take it to my dad, it's like that structure allowed like the creativity of my mother's side to then you know, flourish.
Right.
It's just like an interesting way to look at it.
Speaking of dark and brooding, that's what you call a professional transition, uh Ray Donovan Stu Feldman, uh I loved that show not as much playfulness there, at least from from Ray. I'm gonna be honest, not much much more, much more dark and brooding. Weirdly, when you consider the subject matter, did that show change for you? You being perceived as that guy? I mean you must have gotten specifically recognized for your work there as that show took off in popularity deservedly.
So Yeah, that that definitely bumped things up for me in terms of being recognized. I mean I had so much fun, you know with this character, you know, Stu Feldman of Just you know, it's like a guy who has all this power but but no security within himself and just create which create this behavior, this crazy behavior, and trying to and also this kind of infatuation with Ray. You know that it's like almost want you know, he wants to be Ray, Like he sees how confident Ray is right and and you know, and he's trying to emulate him and has this kind of man crush on him, right and just you know, and just to play with just on the pilot. The director said, how did he phrase it? It was something like like he said, like what this guy is like wearing like a nervous suit, you know, and he can't sit still, like he doesn't even know how to suppress like this nervous energy that comes out of all these parts of his body, you know, And that just kind of opened again, Like that was something that opened the door for me creatively of this guy that's he's he would like to be still and focused like Ray, but like everything but everything is just like twitching, you know, like there's just so much nervous energy. You know that he's trying to trying to focus.
Yeah.
That I had so much fun on that show. Yeah, so much fun.
I love that idea of him wanting to be Ray, except except just absolutely like a butterfly as opposed to you know, a still strong person. And it's like I want, I want to be that. I'm that, right, I'm that, but just never like never being.
It has all the power and all the money, you know, and run runs the studio, you know, a movie studio, but none of it read, none of it appeals whatever his childhood wound is, you.
Know, right.
You.
In recent years, more unbelievable projects like to Drop Out, Missus, Fletcher, Motherless Brooklyn, and now a new show, A Man in Full, just released on Netflix with the brilliant Jeff Daniels and Diane Lane. Tell me about your experience working on that project, again based on a very popular best selling book, so the story is out there a little bit. Did you find that a challenge? And yeah, how is it like working with those two actors?
I mean, you know, working with Jeff was I really didn't like Sometimes knowing someone's work, you can kind of get an idea like, oh, I bet this guy is like this, you know. And with Jeff, I was like, because I'd never met him before we started filming, and I was like, is this guy gonna be an asshole or like a sweetheart? Like he just couldn't tell, but such a sweetheart like such such so committed and interested in acting and the craft. So that was awesome. And on the very first day he said, he went like, Josh, I'm going big. I'm going big on this one, you know. And his character is like enormous, right, and my character is like, you know, has in some way more power and has the money that he wants he wants me to bail him out. And it's like he's going big and I'm like a submarine, like just going really low and just holding the power and kind of emerging with power when I need to kind of the opposite of Stu Feldman in in some way. And so it was just it was just a blast. It was challenging, and it was you know, the Tommy SCHLAMI like a couple of days before we start, who was one of the directors, Regina King was the other director, and Tommy he said, get this book. Get this book, tough Jews. And he said, like, you know, he said, your character is definitely a Jew, but he like, let's make this guy a badass, not a funny Jew, not the Schlemiel whatever, right, but like a warrior, you know, a gangster. And and so that was very you know that that was that was a great also a great note to kind of inspire, how can I have more power than Jeff's character even though Jeff is enormous and be like under the surface. So that was kind of the dance that I was playing with.
You know, I don't know if we've told your whole story, but I've found a runner through this entire conversation from your time at Law and Order and a decision that you made through Stuf Feldman through this show in some ways, the Joker as well. You have found a lot of tactics and actions to play characters of high status, which doesn't necessarily mean they always win, but the character themselves has status. But you've found you've had an amazing ability to take what you might even consider to be a very similar character type, but using that high status in different ways has enabled you to become a chameleon throughout all of those things. I don't know, this is just occurring to me right now. This wasn't this wasn't pre planned. I find that. I found find that fascinating and a great lesson for other actors to take that. Like, what does high status mean? Well, you have money? I mean literally the two roles you were just talking about right here, yet taking different tactics based on the characters that you're playing with, So what your given circumstances are, uh, and using that status in different ways to either increase them or sort of undercut them with something else. I find that very interesting. Mm hmm true.
Was yeah, true? Wow, Wow, this is this is uh, this is your You're unveiling the.
Story I'm trying And it wasn't even intentional. I'm just listening to you.
I never really thought of it that way, but it's true. Yeah. And I also just like I don't know, like I don't know. It was maybe like six months ago, and I was like, wow, I do play these powerful guys.
Yes, yes, you know, and.
It's not intentional, it's not right.
Yeah.
And I'm also working on this show raising Kanaan playing this kind of music producer, roughly basing the character on Rick Rubin. Have you read his book, by the way, Rick Rubin's book, The Creative Act.
I have not so recommend it.
I think you would love it.
Oh interesting, Yeah, great book.
But again, like another high powered dude.
I hear you're publishing a book next year. Are you writing it?
Well, Penguin is It's not it's not. I'm I have to hand it in in September, okay, And it's coming out September twenty twenty five, and the working title is Lose Your Mind The Path to Creative Invincibility. I like that, thank you. In a very unplanned way, somebody started pitching me to some publishers, and the book is kind of taking what I've been teaching, this committed impulse work and tape, but not making it actor specific. It's like taking this work for the general public, which is really exciting. So much of what you know, we as actors go through and are challenged with its kind of remarkable and it's it's a much higher level of challenges than maybe people have in other careers. But we all go through the same stuff and kind of using the experience of being an actor and the universality of that of because we all have audiences. We all you know, when we put ourselves further out into the world, you know, as actors say in an audition or walking on set. You know, we all everybody has the equivalent of that of putting themselves even if it's in a meeting with one other person, and the same kind of things emerge. And so just trying to connect the dots of what I of learned and making it available to the general public, and it's it's very exciting. I just feel like I'm getting a piece of my life's work out there.
I love that. Uh. And it is true having being able to apply teachings principles of acting. Yeah, it can help throughout all all all facets of your life.
Yeah, because what we have, we've had to we've had to learn how to you know, deal with so much, you know, and it's I mean actings like a spiritual practice on so many levels, I think, you know, because we have to can't get caught up in rejection and got to just keep opening our hearts no matter what and open the channel and move forward, going forward. Yeah.
Last thing, you just shot a new film, The Friend, with Naomi Watts and Bill Murray. Uh, good experience. When is this When is this out?
It's an endie so who knows, probably a year and just you know, most of my stuff was with Naomi Watts and and this amazing dog, this enormous great Dane who is central to the story.
Was are you being truthful? Was it really a great dog?
Yes, it's a great Dane and a great dog. And there's an article this week in the New Yorker about that dog and and the and the guy that came on to train him. Oh yeah, in this week's New Yorker.
I just I just worked with a pug.
Oh really? I was that?
It wasn't that he no, yeah, no, smart.
Well, like seventy percent of the time he did what he was told and then thirty percent of the time is like I'm not gonna do that. No, no, that's okay. That's okay. I'm gonna go who's got snacks? Anybody got snacks?
By the way, that just sounds like me, So he and I would get along really, really really well. Uh, Josh, thanks so much for coming and chatting with me.
Such a pleasure. Thank you, Brian, No.
I really enjoyed it. Come back again anytime, and uh, look, I'll figure out more things about you. Okay, great problem.
Please I want to know. I want to know about me.
Good luck on the book and you and I will I will see you on a screen very very soon.
Great.
Thanks man, Josh, Thank you so much, such a pleasure to get to know you. Had so much fun talking shop with you today, a master class in acting and beyond. Good luck with your new book. Listeners, go watch Man in full on Netflix and see The Friend when it comes out whenever that may be. Go check out all of his work. He really is fantastic and you'll remember he's Josh Piez, not just that guy anymore. I'll see you next week and until then, have a great one. Off. The Beat is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Ling Lee. Our Senior produce is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary and our intern is Ali Amir Sahim. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and only Creed Bragg,
