It's so funny. Many of the things in my career that I was really nervous about ended up being really successful for me, because sometimes you just have to put yourself out

It's so funny. Many of the things in my career that I was really nervous about ended up being really successful for me, because sometimes you just have to put yourself out

there and take a chance

there and take a chance

from the Mother Mia podcast network. I'm Mia Freedman, and you're listening to no philtre counted conversations that count. Seeing someone in person that you've grown up with on the screen is really weird. It's lovely, but it's weird. When Olivia Newton John walked out of the lift and into the Mummy office one Wednesday morning recently,

from the Mother Mia podcast network. I'm Mia Freedman, and you're listening to no philtre counted conversations that count. Seeing someone in person that you've grown up with on the screen is really weird. It's lovely, but it's weird. When Olivia Newton John walked out of the lift and into the Mummy office one Wednesday morning recently,

she was really fragile but also somehow full of energy. At the same time, she glowed as we said our hellos and she sort of got her bearings. I watched her and I was struck by how she's really naturally curious. And she's kind of effervescent, like a Baraka, and she's deeply connected to animals. One of the first things she knows

she was really fragile but also somehow full of energy. At the same time, she glowed as we said our hellos and she sort of got her bearings. I watched her and I was struck by how she's really naturally curious. And she's kind of effervescent, like a Baraka, and she's deeply connected to animals. One of the first things she knows

was that there was a dog bed next to someone's desk, and I saw her whole face light up as she went looking for a dog in the office and she was really crest fel. And when I had to tell her that the dogs weren't actually in the office today. She was super excited about patting something. It's hard not to found girl over Olivia Newton John. I dare you to try. It's Sandy from Grease. It's tell me more. It's summer lovin it Xanadu. It's roller skates and it's Let's get physical.

was that there was a dog bed next to someone's desk, and I saw her whole face light up as she went looking for a dog in the office and she was really crest fel. And when I had to tell her that the dogs weren't actually in the office today. She was super excited about patting something. It's hard not to found girl over Olivia Newton John. I dare you to try. It's Sandy from Grease. It's tell me more. It's summer lovin it Xanadu. It's roller skates and it's Let's get physical.

I mean, it's hard to think of a more iconic Australian or one that's more beloved than Olivia Newton. John

I mean, it's hard to think of a more iconic Australian or one that's more beloved than Olivia Newton. John

Olivia has had some incredible highs in her life and also some really crushing lows.

Olivia has had some incredible highs in her life and also some really crushing lows.

She's had breast cancer. She was one of the first celebrities to talk openly and honestly about being diagnosed and then treated for breast cancer. She's lost her beloved sister, Corona. Her former partner, Patrick, disappeared in mysterious circumstances that no one ever really seemed to figure out.

She's had breast cancer. She was one of the first celebrities to talk openly and honestly about being diagnosed and then treated for breast cancer. She's lost her beloved sister, Corona. Her former partner, Patrick, disappeared in mysterious circumstances that no one ever really seemed to figure out.

Her God daughter died when she was just six. Olivia's been divorced, and she's experienced infertility and miscarriages, and she's also had two wonderful marriages and an extraordinary international career. A daughter who she is devoted to, and a life full of laughter and love and adventure and animals. She even tried ayahuasca, the hallucinogenic drug with her husband in Peru.

Her God daughter died when she was just six. Olivia's been divorced, and she's experienced infertility and miscarriages, and she's also had two wonderful marriages and an extraordinary international career. A daughter who she is devoted to, and a life full of laughter and love and adventure and animals. She even tried ayahuasca, the hallucinogenic drug with her husband in Peru.

Olivia is about to turn 70 and she's optimistic about the future despite the fact that her cancer has returned for the third time.

Olivia is about to turn 70 and she's optimistic about the future despite the fact that her cancer has returned for the third time.

Her new memoir is aptly called Don't Stop Believing, and we had a lot to talk about, including the time that she tried a whisker. I wanted to know what that was like and her miscarriages and her cancer and her hot husbands, one of whom lived in a teepee for a while. But first I wanted to start with all of the questions that I had and that I'm sure you have about what else? Greece.

Her new memoir is aptly called Don't Stop Believing, and we had a lot to talk about, including the time that she tried a whisker. I wanted to know what that was like and her miscarriages and her cancer and her hot husbands, one of whom lived in a teepee for a while. But first I wanted to start with all of the questions that I had and that I'm sure you have about what else? Greece.

Here's Olivia Newton, John

Here's Olivia Newton, John

Olivia. Tell me about your first day on the set of Greece. It wasn't even a day of filming, was it that first day you know the first thing I said of Greece.

Olivia. Tell me about your first day on the set of Greece. It wasn't even a day of filming, was it that first day you know the first thing I said of Greece.

We Alencar gave us a

We Alencar gave us a

sock hop, so

sock hop, so

he wanted us to get to know each other. So he played a lot of music and we danced and and kind of got to know each other was really clever idea because it got us into the idea of being a lot younger than we were. Yeah, and forming a family,

he wanted us to get to know each other. So he played a lot of music and we danced and and kind of got to know each other was really clever idea because it got us into the idea of being a lot younger than we were. Yeah, and forming a family,

and, uh, it was a really clever idea and he used a lot of that to get us energised. He would have little parties at his house and invite us, and he kept us all very excited, which was showed in the energy of the film.

and, uh, it was a really clever idea and he used a lot of that to get us energised. He would have little parties at his house and invite us, and he kept us all very excited, which was showed in the energy of the film.

It sure did. You talked about how it being 1978 when the film was made.

It sure did. You talked about how it being 1978 when the film was made.

It was so different to the time that was portrayed in the film, which was the fifties, and how you were nervous about the clash of those two times on those two eras. What was it like then, in terms of What did you mean? What was the sort of the feeling in the seventies that felt so different to the movie?

It was so different to the time that was portrayed in the film, which was the fifties, and how you were nervous about the clash of those two times on those two eras. What was it like then, in terms of What did you mean? What was the sort of the feeling in the seventies that felt so different to the movie?

Well, no, I don't think that I think I was more concerned about pulling off being 17

Well, no, I don't think that I think I was more concerned about pulling off being 17

right

right

than I was about the two different eras, because it was it was a movie. We were playing a different era, but the fifties had a really exciting

than I was about the two different eras, because it was it was a movie. We were playing a different era, but the fifties had a really exciting

think about them. I think the movie is almost cartoon like in that it takes each character and makes them larger than life. Everyone was larger than life and bigger and funnier, and the costumes were bright and so I think it was kind of a wonderful ode to the fifties,

think about them. I think the movie is almost cartoon like in that it takes each character and makes them larger than life. Everyone was larger than life and bigger and funnier, and the costumes were bright and so I think it was kind of a wonderful ode to the fifties,

but the seventies, you know, it was a different time, but I could relate. Even though I was very young,

but the seventies, you know, it was a different time, but I could relate. Even though I was very young,

you didn't want to be in the film. You said no, John Travolta said. He was cast and they were looking for Sandy, and he said the only one he wanted was you were the one that I want.

you didn't want to be in the film. You said no, John Travolta said. He was cast and they were looking for Sandy, and he said the only one he wanted was you were the one that I want.

How did he convince you? How did the director convince you?

How did he convince you? How did the director convince you?

Well, first of all, I had dinner with Alan Carr and Helen Reddy's house, and that's really how the whole conversation began. And I had made a movie in England in the sixties called Tomorrow, which was a musical. I was in a band in in the movie, and it was a space musical.

Well, first of all, I had dinner with Alan Carr and Helen Reddy's house, and that's really how the whole conversation began. And I had made a movie in England in the sixties called Tomorrow, which was a musical. I was in a band in in the movie, and it was a space musical.

And it wasn't a big success, although it was supposed to have been because Harry Saltzman, who did the James Bond movies, and Don Kirshner, who put the monkeys together, joined up to make this brand new group. They were going to make all these movies and it didn't work. So I was very nervous about making another movie and particularly musical because my musical career was taking off my music career, not my musical career. So I had to be convinced because I want to make another mistake. So they talked to me and I was going, I'm not sure. So

And it wasn't a big success, although it was supposed to have been because Harry Saltzman, who did the James Bond movies, and Don Kirshner, who put the monkeys together, joined up to make this brand new group. They were going to make all these movies and it didn't work. So I was very nervous about making another movie and particularly musical because my musical career was taking off my music career, not my musical career. So I had to be convinced because I want to make another mistake. So they talked to me and I was going, I'm not sure. So

they sent John to my house,

they sent John to my house,

and once that beautiful man came walking up the driveway with those bright blue eyes and and said, You're the you know you're my choice And but he was very gentle and very calm, and we just spent the day together and hang around the animals. And, uh then I said, Well, you know what? I'm a bit nervous about playing 17. I was all of 29

and once that beautiful man came walking up the driveway with those bright blue eyes and and said, You're the you know you're my choice And but he was very gentle and very calm, and we just spent the day together and hang around the animals. And, uh then I said, Well, you know what? I'm a bit nervous about playing 17. I was all of 29

and when I look back now, I don't know what I was worried about. You know, it's all

and when I look back now, I don't know what I was worried about. You know, it's all

relative to the age

relative to the age

you are. And I said, I think maybe if we do a screen test and I can see

you are. And I said, I think maybe if we do a screen test and I can see

that this can work, that maybe maybe I consider it so They put together a screen test, and that's really how it all fell into place.

that this can work, that maybe maybe I consider it so They put together a screen test, and that's really how it all fell into place.

It was very cool headed of you, wasn't it? That showed a real pragmatism, and I want for a career with longevity

It was very cool headed of you, wasn't it? That showed a real pragmatism, and I want for a career with longevity

and a lot of fear. I think

and a lot of fear. I think

yet and he so it's not many actresses, you know. I want to audition. Yeah, let me see.

yet and he so it's not many actresses, you know. I want to audition. Yeah, let me see.

It's so funny. Many of the things in my

It's so funny. Many of the things in my

career that I was really nervous about ended up being really successful for me because sometimes you just have to put yourself out there and take a chance. And

career that I was really nervous about ended up being really successful for me because sometimes you just have to put yourself out there and take a chance. And

so I ended up

so I ended up

taking that chance. But it was nerve racking.

taking that chance. But it was nerve racking.

So where was John and his career and where were you in your career at that stage?

So where was John and his career and where were you in your career at that stage?

I'm glad you asked that, because that's what I was merely to say to you, because when he walked up the driveway,

I'm glad you asked that, because that's what I was merely to say to you, because when he walked up the driveway,

I just knew him from Welcome back, Kotter.

I just knew him from Welcome back, Kotter.

Yeah,

Yeah,

which is a series on TV where he played this really cute guy and Saturday Night Fever.

which is a series on TV where he played this really cute guy and Saturday Night Fever.

Not yet part

Not yet part

of the world. So we I'm really glad of that because I think I would have been too intimidated had I seen the movie or known about it beforehand as we were almost finished Greece because I remember being in my sandy to outfit in my black outfit, and John said, we're having a screening of Saturday Night Fever. It's the uncut we haven't finished at. The music is not in.

of the world. So we I'm really glad of that because I think I would have been too intimidated had I seen the movie or known about it beforehand as we were almost finished Greece because I remember being in my sandy to outfit in my black outfit, and John said, we're having a screening of Saturday Night Fever. It's the uncut we haven't finished at. The music is not in.

And so Dede and myself and quite a few of us went to watch it, and it was like, Oh, yeah, he's going to be, like, iconic And then I was like, I'm so glad I did this movie before I saw it. You know, my musical career was doing pretty well. I wasn't huge, but I was doing very well

And so Dede and myself and quite a few of us went to watch it, and it was like, Oh, yeah, he's going to be, like, iconic And then I was like, I'm so glad I did this movie before I saw it. You know, my musical career was doing pretty well. I wasn't huge, but I was doing very well

and so we're kind of similar. That's what made it, I think, work out

and so we're kind of similar. That's what made it, I think, work out

the decision to make Sandy Australia and how did that come about?

the decision to make Sandy Australia and how did that come about?

Because I told them, You know, I was coming up with all the excuses in the world where I couldn't play it, and one of them was, I can't do an American accent

Because I told them, You know, I was coming up with all the excuses in the world where I couldn't play it, and one of them was, I can't do an American accent

So they called me back and said, OK, we'll make you a

So they called me back and said, OK, we'll make you a

Nazi Well,

Nazi Well,

thank you, okay. And I think that worked really well for the part as well. It's made it a little more interesting that

thank you, okay. And I think that worked really well for the part as well. It's made it a little more interesting that

fish out of water.

fish out of water.

I was probably one of the first people to have an Australian accent. I think

I was probably one of the first people to have an Australian accent. I think

there's a beautiful moment in the book that you write about at the Bonfire, which is quite early in the film, and Danny and Sandy see each other again for the first time and realise that they're at school together.

there's a beautiful moment in the book that you write about at the Bonfire, which is quite early in the film, and Danny and Sandy see each other again for the first time and realise that they're at school together.

Oh, that's such a beautiful moment when he first sees you and all the things written on his face. But tell me about the filming of that scene because there's a beautiful story. You tell about it in the book.

Oh, that's such a beautiful moment when he first sees you and all the things written on his face. But tell me about the filming of that scene because there's a beautiful story. You tell about it in the book.

Well, it was at night and it was a big scene, really, because I had to do a whole transition as well. What's

Well, it was at night and it was a big scene, really, because I had to do a whole transition as well. What's

the transition?

the transition?

Well, kind of from happiness to sadness and, you know, feelings of emotion. And

Well, kind of from happiness to sadness and, you know, feelings of emotion. And

I was a little nervous of it. Excited. I was excited.

I was a little nervous of it. Excited. I was excited.

You were nervous.

You were nervous.

And did he know I was nervous? Deedee was fabulous to me.

And did he know I was nervous? Deedee was fabulous to me.

Friendship, Friendship. You guys became friends.

Friendship, Friendship. You guys became friends.

We're still friends. She's a wonderful girl. And she was accomplished actor. So we'd rehearsed together. Anyway. I do the scene and I'm pulled up towards John and I do my thing.

We're still friends. She's a wonderful girl. And she was accomplished actor. So we'd rehearsed together. Anyway. I do the scene and I'm pulled up towards John and I do my thing.

Tell me,

Tell me,

what are you doing

what are you doing

here? I

here? I

thought you were going back to

thought you were going back to

Australia. We have a change of plan.

Australia. We have a change of plan.

Keep.

Keep.

Well, that's cool. baby. You

Well, that's cool. baby. You

know how it is

know how it is

Rocking and rode in. What?

Rocking and rode in. What?

Not Danny,

Not Danny,

That's my name. Don't wear it out. And he just waved his hands like this. It was my close up, and he waved his hands in front of the camera, walked up to me and whispered to me, I think he can do it better. So he messed up to take on purpose because he thought I could do it better. So that was really generous of him. And I've always been grateful for that because it was, you know, he was helping me,

That's my name. Don't wear it out. And he just waved his hands like this. It was my close up, and he waved his hands in front of the camera, walked up to me and whispered to me, I think he can do it better. So he messed up to take on purpose because he thought I could do it better. So that was really generous of him. And I've always been grateful for that because it was, you know, he was helping me,

did. He has been quoted as saying that there was a lot of hormones and a lot of chemistry on the set and that she said, um, the trailers were rocking and rolling between

did. He has been quoted as saying that there was a lot of hormones and a lot of chemistry on the set and that she said, um, the trailers were rocking and rolling between

Doesn't mine,

Doesn't mine,

may I

may I

specify? But yeah, there was some of that going on,

specify? But yeah, there was some of that going on,

and you tell a story about Nikki, who met your sister when she came. Your sister, Rohner, who came to visit on the set and they got married.

and you tell a story about Nikki, who met your sister when she came. Your sister, Rohner, who came to visit on the set and they got married.

They got married. They fell madly in love and got married. So my brother in law was good, Nicky, for many

They got married. They fell madly in love and got married. So my brother in law was good, Nicky, for many

years. Was that weird?

years. Was that weird?

I'm not at the time, he was a character. He was a he was quite a character, but he he was a sweet guy, and unfortunately, we lost him about a year before my sister passed. So they're both gone now. But,

I'm not at the time, he was a character. He was a he was quite a character, but he he was a sweet guy, and unfortunately, we lost him about a year before my sister passed. So they're both gone now. But,

yeah, there was some pretty well days there. My brother in law.

yeah, there was some pretty well days there. My brother in law.

I wanted to ask you about that final scene, and it's funny. It's funny watching it through. You know, I've watched it obviously 100 times when I was growing up and then with my kids and watching it through the lens of political correctness today and you go over there was bullying and there was smoking. And there was all these different things real sexual harassment and all of these things, which is exactly real life. Um,

I wanted to ask you about that final scene, and it's funny. It's funny watching it through. You know, I've watched it obviously 100 times when I was growing up and then with my kids and watching it through the lens of political correctness today and you go over there was bullying and there was smoking. And there was all these different things real sexual harassment and all of these things, which is exactly real life. Um,

how

how

did that come about? That idea of that transformation in the end and to what you call Sandy to

did that come about? That idea of that transformation in the end and to what you call Sandy to

the idea was, you know, people have criticised said Well, she changed for him and she becomes this and it's a movie, and also he changed for her. So he let it in sport and wore a Letterman jacket which was totally against all his friends and everything that he was doing, and she changed for him.

the idea was, you know, people have criticised said Well, she changed for him and she becomes this and it's a movie, and also he changed for her. So he let it in sport and wore a Letterman jacket which was totally against all his friends and everything that he was doing, and she changed for him.

And then they came together. It was very sweet, actually.

And then they came together. It was very sweet, actually.

What was it like filming on those? I imagine it went over a few days as

What was it like filming on those? I imagine it went over a few days as

well. That was That was a lot of fun. Tell me about those

well. That was That was a lot of fun. Tell me about those

hands. Tell me about the pants.

hands. Tell me about the pants.

Well, at the time, we're now in the seventies. Those pants are from the fifties. So they were in wardrobe and they brought out a whole bunch of clothes and things for me to try on. But they just had that beautiful. You know, uh, they were sharkskin. Not real shark, of course, but they called us skin and very thick, powerful material. But the zip was broken, as you probably know, and they didn't wanna risk ruining the whole pants by replacing the zip. So it was decided they'd stitch me in,

Well, at the time, we're now in the seventies. Those pants are from the fifties. So they were in wardrobe and they brought out a whole bunch of clothes and things for me to try on. But they just had that beautiful. You know, uh, they were sharkskin. Not real shark, of course, but they called us skin and very thick, powerful material. But the zip was broken, as you probably know, and they didn't wanna risk ruining the whole pants by replacing the zip. So it was decided they'd stitch me in,

so that made it a very interesting What

so that made it a very interesting What

about the toilet?

about the toilet?

I would be

I would be

nervous ways.

nervous ways.

No, I had to be unstitched, so I couldn't drink a lot. So probably wasn't the best health thing for me, But it was only for a few days

No, I had to be unstitched, so I couldn't drink a lot. So probably wasn't the best health thing for me, But it was only for a few days

and did it

and did it

makes a good story now.

makes a good story now.

Did you see the difference in the way the sort of the cast and crew looked at you.

Did you see the difference in the way the sort of the cast and crew looked at you.

Oh, absolutely. Because, you know, for like, two months, I'd been sandy wine and my cute little outfits and,

Oh, absolutely. Because, you know, for like, two months, I'd been sandy wine and my cute little outfits and,

you know, and then the night before, we were filming, uh, the hair and makeup and Albert Wolski, who was the costumer. We tried on all these outfits and John was filming. Um, he was singing Sandy at the drive in, and I was there with makeup and hair, and I walked out just as he was finishing. He stopped singing, stood up and everyone just turned around. It was like

you know, and then the night before, we were filming, uh, the hair and makeup and Albert Wolski, who was the costumer. We tried on all these outfits and John was filming. Um, he was singing Sandy at the drive in, and I was there with makeup and hair, and I walked out just as he was finishing. He stopped singing, stood up and everyone just turned around. It was like

and I went What I've been doing wrong all these months, It was very powerful moment for me. He was like, Goodness, clothing can make this difference. It's really incredible perceptions people have of you because of the way you're dressed.

and I went What I've been doing wrong all these months, It was very powerful moment for me. He was like, Goodness, clothing can make this difference. It's really incredible perceptions people have of you because of the way you're dressed.

Yeah, it happened to me in another movie I made called sordid lives where I played a lesbian country and Western singer. And I had tattoos and I cut my hair really short, and I will really daddy clothes and horrible outfits. And I remember going home dressed like that once I went into my local chemist to buy something and a woman.

Yeah, it happened to me in another movie I made called sordid lives where I played a lesbian country and Western singer. And I had tattoos and I cut my hair really short, and I will really daddy clothes and horrible outfits. And I remember going home dressed like that once I went into my local chemist to buy something and a woman.

We're standing with a little girl and she pulled a little girl into her like I was a threat. It was hilarious and always remember that. And I thought, You know, you can't judge a book by its cover and remember that for myself from that time on, very often those big guys that look so beef there, the softest, sweetest people in the world You know what

We're standing with a little girl and she pulled a little girl into her like I was a threat. It was hilarious and always remember that. And I thought, You know, you can't judge a book by its cover and remember that for myself from that time on, very often those big guys that look so beef there, the softest, sweetest people in the world You know what

was

was

like in that time afterwards? I mean, I know that now there's the expression shipping, which is relation shipping when fans, um, try to project relationships that don't exist. And everyone wanted you and John Travolta to date, But you never did. Why why did you never I'm still shipping you 40 years later,

like in that time afterwards? I mean, I know that now there's the expression shipping, which is relation shipping when fans, um, try to project relationships that don't exist. And everyone wanted you and John Travolta to date, But you never did. Why why did you never I'm still shipping you 40 years later,

shipping. I've never heard that funny. We were both with other people when we were filming,

shipping. I've never heard that funny. We were both with other people when we were filming,

and I think respectfully, we just didn't happen. And I think

and I think respectfully, we just didn't happen. And I think

I think it was good because I think it kept the tension there in the chemistry. It might have been a really disaster had we decided to date or we had falling out or something. So I think it was just

I think it was good because I think it kept the tension there in the chemistry. It might have been a really disaster had we decided to date or we had falling out or something. So I think it was just

just as well. It didn't happen. But we're still great friends,

just as well. It didn't happen. But we're still great friends,

and not everyone stays friends with the people. They make films we've heard it explained that it's quite a almost like a summer camp vibe or a holiday romance, and then you move on with your lives. But you stayed friends with Dede and with John, that friendship seems to be really

and not everyone stays friends with the people. They make films we've heard it explained that it's quite a almost like a summer camp vibe or a holiday romance, and then you move on with your lives. But you stayed friends with Dede and with John, that friendship seems to be really

still very simple. And Randal Kleiser, the director. In fact, I just had dinner with him the other day, so it's taken us 40 years to have dinner, he said. We did it,

still very simple. And Randal Kleiser, the director. In fact, I just had dinner with him the other day, so it's taken us 40 years to have dinner, he said. We did it,

Um, but yeah, I mean those times in your lives that are really special. It's lovely to keep contact. I have friends from childhood and, you know, friends from all my life.

Um, but yeah, I mean those times in your lives that are really special. It's lovely to keep contact. I have friends from childhood and, you know, friends from all my life.

Xanadu was an incredible film. I love. She loved Greece. Oh my God. My family went on a long trip around Australia for six weeks, and the only tape that we had was so my whole family knows every lyric as we drove through the

Xanadu was an incredible film. I love. She loved Greece. Oh my God. My family went on a long trip around Australia for six weeks, and the only tape that we had was so my whole family knows every lyric as we drove through the

yeah back. I've got such strong memories. That film was crazy, like when you looked at when you look at it on paper and you go you know, it's roller skating and it's fantasy, and it's Gene Kelly is in it. And how did you say yes to that? How did you decide to do that film?

yeah back. I've got such strong memories. That film was crazy, like when you looked at when you look at it on paper and you go you know, it's roller skating and it's fantasy, and it's Gene Kelly is in it. And how did you say yes to that? How did you decide to do that film?

Well, I've been looking for something, and, um,

Well, I've been looking for something, and, um,

this one had. I liked the idea of the muse, and I like the idea of L. O and John Farah writing the music. So the script was never really finished,

this one had. I liked the idea of the muse, and I like the idea of L. O and John Farah writing the music. So the script was never really finished,

and it was kind of written as we went along, which is, I think, the one fall. That's where it fell down somehow. But I think the music and the dancing was years beyond ahead of its time. Kenny Ortega, who was the choreographer who was Michael Jackson's choreographer, and I worked with him for many years, but he's incredibly brilliant and famous choreographer, but he was kind of starting out then,

and it was kind of written as we went along, which is, I think, the one fall. That's where it fell down somehow. But I think the music and the dancing was years beyond ahead of its time. Kenny Ortega, who was the choreographer who was Michael Jackson's choreographer, and I worked with him for many years, but he's incredibly brilliant and famous choreographer, but he was kind of starting out then,

and he brought on all these street dancers and people doing all the things they're doing now. He had them doing 30 years ago, whatever

and he brought on all these street dancers and people doing all the things they're doing now. He had them doing 30 years ago, whatever

it was. And roller skates,

it was. And roller skates,

roller skates. Yeah, I had to learn that. That was

roller skates. Yeah, I had to learn that. That was

That was not one of my more pleasurable memories, because I broke my tailbone right when we were filming? Um, yes. And I had to And I'm one of those as I talk in the book a lot about the show must go on and continue, no matter what. So I was sitting on a nice doughnut a lot

That was not one of my more pleasurable memories, because I broke my tailbone right when we were filming? Um, yes. And I had to And I'm one of those as I talk in the book a lot about the show must go on and continue, no matter what. So I was sitting on a nice doughnut a lot

like

like

20 takes. Oh, yeah,

20 takes. Oh, yeah,

Get a bit further back was

Get a bit further back was

excruciating. Yeah.

excruciating. Yeah.

You met your first husband, Matt Lattanzi, on the set. He was a younger man. Yes, he was 20 when you met? Yes. Was that a big deal back then?

You met your first husband, Matt Lattanzi, on the set. He was a younger man. Yes, he was 20 when you met? Yes. Was that a big deal back then?

Um, I think it probably was more of a big deal then That it is now. Yeah, we kept it quiet until the movie was done because we wanted privacy. I'm always, always trying to have my privacy, but he was a breath of fresh air. He was just very sweet, and

Um, I think it probably was more of a big deal then That it is now. Yeah, we kept it quiet until the movie was done because we wanted privacy. I'm always, always trying to have my privacy, but he was a breath of fresh air. He was just very sweet, and

he wasn't sure Beers and he was in Hollywood and we'd go camping and fishing and walking. And it was just about the outdoors and natural life in a big family. So

he wasn't sure Beers and he was in Hollywood and we'd go camping and fishing and walking. And it was just about the outdoors and natural life in a big family. So

I forgot. I think I was just immature was probably his age. Really.

I forgot. I think I was just immature was probably his age. Really.

It must have been important to have someone who wasn't swayed by the fame and the bright lights

It must have been important to have someone who wasn't swayed by the fame and the bright lights

and kept you grounded.

and kept you grounded.

Yeah, we had. We had fun together and a beautiful child. Which was that was the gift from that relationship. A

Yeah, we had. We had fun together and a beautiful child. Which was that was the gift from that relationship. A

good dad for your, for your daughter. It's funny through the book, both of your husbands, apart from being ridiculously good looking very grounded in nature

good dad for your, for your daughter. It's funny through the book, both of your husbands, apart from being ridiculously good looking very grounded in nature

you very much

you very much

for time. I remember reading. Was Matt living in a teepee?

for time. I remember reading. Was Matt living in a teepee?

Yeah, he was on T. P.

Yeah, he was on T. P.

Yeah, he's very into nature.

Yeah, he's very into nature.

And something I didn't know about you is about miscarriages. You know, I think it's funny. Every woman has a gynaecological history, but back then, that was not something that anybody spoke about. Um, really know. So how did you get through that?

And something I didn't know about you is about miscarriages. You know, I think it's funny. Every woman has a gynaecological history, but back then, that was not something that anybody spoke about. Um, really know. So how did you get through that?

Yeah, well, I I got pregnant pretty soon after we got married, because that time was ahead racing ahead. And I was 37 when I had Chloe. So, you know, I lost a few after her, and,

Yeah, well, I I got pregnant pretty soon after we got married, because that time was ahead racing ahead. And I was 37 when I had Chloe. So, you know, I lost a few after her, and,

you know, it's like anything you you grieve. It's a loss. It's a death. Um, yeah. It's like many women go through it, and I think nature has a purpose for it. Usually there's something wrong and nature knows, and I think if you can come to terms with that. And you just have to be grateful. Really?

you know, it's like anything you you grieve. It's a loss. It's a death. Um, yeah. It's like many women go through it, and I think nature has a purpose for it. Usually there's something wrong and nature knows, and I think if you can come to terms with that. And you just have to be grateful. Really?

The day that you gave birth, Khloe came early. Yeah, it wasn't part of the plan.

The day that you gave birth, Khloe came early. Yeah, it wasn't part of the plan.

You talk

You talk

about how calm you were. And then you went to the hospital and epidural went wrong.

about how calm you were. And then you went to the hospital and epidural went wrong.

Well, I I was It didn't. It's not a natural thing to do. And anything to do with anaesthesia is dangerous. And in the spine. To me, it was horror was kind of I really didn't want it. But in the end, I had to have it, Um,

Well, I I was It didn't. It's not a natural thing to do. And anything to do with anaesthesia is dangerous. And in the spine. To me, it was horror was kind of I really didn't want it. But in the end, I had to have it, Um,

and it went wrong. And maybe maybe it was my fault. Maybe I projected it. I don't know that. You know, sometimes the very things you're afraid of you can make them happen to. So I suffered with that for, like, seven years afterwards. Because

and it went wrong. And maybe maybe it was my fault. Maybe I projected it. I don't know that. You know, sometimes the very things you're afraid of you can make them happen to. So I suffered with that for, like, seven years afterwards. Because

your spinal cord Yeah,

your spinal cord Yeah,

Yeah, he punctured my spinal cord. So he did something wrong.

Yeah, he punctured my spinal cord. So he did something wrong.

And, uh, anyway, I'm here. I'm fine. And I'm sure they're much better at it now than back then.

And, uh, anyway, I'm here. I'm fine. And I'm sure they're much better at it now than back then.

You had some beautiful years with Chloe, and your best friend had a daughter at the same time. Nazi. She had a little girl called college. Who is your God daughter? And there are a few years in your I think, mid forties that were

You had some beautiful years with Chloe, and your best friend had a daughter at the same time. Nazi. She had a little girl called college. Who is your God daughter? And there are a few years in your I think, mid forties that were

just

just

one blow after another. And you you write about them really movingly in the book collect got cancer. She got to her and her kidneys, and

one blow after another. And you you write about them really movingly in the book collect got cancer. She got to her and her kidneys, and

she ended up not surviving. And your father passed away. And then you discovered that you had breast cancer.

she ended up not surviving. And your father passed away. And then you discovered that you had breast cancer.

How did you get through those years?

How did you get through those years?

Well, you know, you have to. And I think when you're faced with those things, most people pull their socks up and you have to have a young child. I had much to live for. Uh, couldn't say I complain about my life, but I think nobody escapes without something in their life. Just for me. It all happened. A lot of things happen together, but that also seems to happen a lot that things come in threes for me. They come in threes,

Well, you know, you have to. And I think when you're faced with those things, most people pull their socks up and you have to have a young child. I had much to live for. Uh, couldn't say I complain about my life, but I think nobody escapes without something in their life. Just for me. It all happened. A lot of things happen together, but that also seems to happen a lot that things come in threes for me. They come in threes,

Um, and you just plot on, you know, and I've always been pretty positive person and believed that either is for a reason or

Um, and you just plot on, you know, and I've always been pretty positive person and believed that either is for a reason or

whatever, and I think it was for a reason Had I not gone through that experience, I probably never would have got involved in a cancer on a centre like I did, because it wouldn't have had the same meaning to me. So it gave me a purpose. And, um, you know, losing a parent. Everyone goes through losing a parent. We're all going to die at some point. So there's, you know, there's a lot of coming to terms with a lot of things from that experience.

whatever, and I think it was for a reason Had I not gone through that experience, I probably never would have got involved in a cancer on a centre like I did, because it wouldn't have had the same meaning to me. So it gave me a purpose. And, um, you know, losing a parent. Everyone goes through losing a parent. We're all going to die at some point. So there's, you know, there's a lot of coming to terms with a lot of things from that experience.

And then your marriage broke

And then your marriage broke

down

down

and you write about how

and you write about how

you think if it hadn't been for the breast cancer, probably it would have ended a bit earlier. But he seems like a very loyal and he was committed and you guys got through it what struck me as well as the way you talk about your divorce in your separation and the way you were both. How did you How did you handle that?

you think if it hadn't been for the breast cancer, probably it would have ended a bit earlier. But he seems like a very loyal and he was committed and you guys got through it what struck me as well as the way you talk about your divorce in your separation and the way you were both. How did you How did you handle that?

Well, we had made because I was older.

Well, we had made because I was older.

I think I always had a maybe a slight knowing that may not last forever because he was going to get to his manhood and, you know, it's kind of normal that he might want to explore life or it may not work. I didn't want that to happen. But I think in the back of my mind, maybe there was a knowingness. So we made a promise to each other that if anything happened between us that we wouldn't let our door to become the

I think I always had a maybe a slight knowing that may not last forever because he was going to get to his manhood and, you know, it's kind of normal that he might want to explore life or it may not work. I didn't want that to happen. But I think in the back of my mind, maybe there was a knowingness. So we made a promise to each other that if anything happened between us that we wouldn't let our door to become the

the tool in the middle of our divorce, like we'd watched other people use their kids as the bartering tool and make the kids suffer. So we said no. Whatever happens, she has access to you as much as she wants, and we'll try and be civil with each other because it's not fair on the kids. I've been through divorce. He hadn't. My parents were divorced, and I really you know, sometimes that's another thing.

the tool in the middle of our divorce, like we'd watched other people use their kids as the bartering tool and make the kids suffer. So we said no. Whatever happens, she has access to you as much as she wants, and we'll try and be civil with each other because it's not fair on the kids. I've been through divorce. He hadn't. My parents were divorced, and I really you know, sometimes that's another thing.

Our divorce was around the same time as my parents divorced. So sometimes you unknowingly repeat patterns in your family. Do

Our divorce was around the same time as my parents divorced. So sometimes you unknowingly repeat patterns in your family. Do

you mean your clothes around the same age that you have been when your parents were divorced?

you mean your clothes around the same age that you have been when your parents were divorced?

That's so true

That's so true

about repeating patterns, and you did do it very differently.

about repeating patterns, and you did do it very differently.

I did it differently,

I did it differently,

and you sat down with you, said a female judge in your home and sorted through it yes, very quietly without drama, without

and you sat down with you, said a female judge in your home and sorted through it yes, very quietly without drama, without

the kitchen table. Basically, yeah,

the kitchen table. Basically, yeah,

and before uh, you lost your God daughter. You had planned to adopt. Yes, you and Matt tell me about

and before uh, you lost your God daughter. You had planned to adopt. Yes, you and Matt tell me about

that We planned to adopt and I had gone to Rome to do a television show called That was really ill. And I hadn't with me a suitcase. I was going to go to Romania because I had met this woman who had adopted a child from Romania. And there was a lot of Children at that time in orphanages was very on the news in America. And I thought, There's some child out there, needs a home

that We planned to adopt and I had gone to Rome to do a television show called That was really ill. And I hadn't with me a suitcase. I was going to go to Romania because I had met this woman who had adopted a child from Romania. And there was a lot of Children at that time in orphanages was very on the news in America. And I thought, There's some child out there, needs a home

And I wanted to have a sibling and I wasn't going to be able to have any more Children.

And I wanted to have a sibling and I wasn't going to be able to have any more Children.

And then when I was in Spain, I got the word, uh, sad music collected past, and I just went home. So that whole idea went out the window and there's no way I was going to replace that. It wasn't the time to adopt a child. And we're grieving like that.

And then when I was in Spain, I got the word, uh, sad music collected past, and I just went home. So that whole idea went out the window and there's no way I was going to replace that. It wasn't the time to adopt a child. And we're grieving like that.

I think every woman comes to a time when she has to accept that her years of being a mother to a young child or a baby behind her

I think every woman comes to a time when she has to accept that her years of being a mother to a young child or a baby behind her

yours was obviously made even more complicated by losing Colette. How did you sort of process that over time

yours was obviously made even more complicated by losing Colette. How did you sort of process that over time

you just do you know there's no there's no set rules or ways you just you just get on with it and work through it and, uh, got Chloe as much help as I could because she was very, very young. But I know it had an impact on her like it did on all of us. And I think maybe we didn't

you just do you know there's no there's no set rules or ways you just you just get on with it and work through it and, uh, got Chloe as much help as I could because she was very, very young. But I know it had an impact on her like it did on all of us. And I think maybe we didn't

realised how much of an impact it had on her at the time because we're on so much grief and then Nancy, I mean, I don't think I mentioned that she lost her brother soon after that and there were so many things happening. It was almost overwhelmed. But luckily I had my work and I had my animals, and I had my daughter and my husband and I had a fantastic life, so I had things to focus on that were positive when we started Sorry, and we started the Children's Health Environmental Coalition in her memory.

realised how much of an impact it had on her at the time because we're on so much grief and then Nancy, I mean, I don't think I mentioned that she lost her brother soon after that and there were so many things happening. It was almost overwhelmed. But luckily I had my work and I had my animals, and I had my daughter and my husband and I had a fantastic life, so I had things to focus on that were positive when we started Sorry, and we started the Children's Health Environmental Coalition in her memory.

I started that with Nancy and Jim to help educate parents to the importance of toxic free homes, and they were the first people to really do that and you know the toxicity, causing cancer and childhood illnesses and things. So it was important. So we made something positive out of something really negative

I started that with Nancy and Jim to help educate parents to the importance of toxic free homes, and they were the first people to really do that and you know the toxicity, causing cancer and childhood illnesses and things. So it was important. So we made something positive out of something really negative

when you were diagnosed with breast cancer. I don't remember a celebrity ever coming out and talking about having breast cancer before. I feel like you were the first

when you were diagnosed with breast cancer. I don't remember a celebrity ever coming out and talking about having breast cancer before. I feel like you were the first

before

before

it went public. What was that? Actual day like that? You discovered the lump because you said you discovered lumps before.

it went public. What was that? Actual day like that? You discovered the lump because you said you discovered lumps before.

I just remember that I found alarming. It didn't feel right. It was a little tender. Even though they tell you

I just remember that I found alarming. It didn't feel right. It was a little tender. Even though they tell you

what did it feel?

what did it feel?

Usually it's not sensitive, but to me it was. What does it feel

Usually it's not sensitive, but to me it was. What does it feel

like? They say It feels like a P.

like? They say It feels like a P.

Yeah, well, it's probably a little was probably a little bigger than a pea, but it was like a P. You're like a little hard lump in there.

Yeah, well, it's probably a little was probably a little bigger than a pea, but it was like a P. You're like a little hard lump in there.

In fact, I, because they have experienced I got involved with something called the Live Kit. Is it live kid in Australia? I think it is, and it's a self breast examination tool that helps you decipher lumps in your body more easily in your breast more easily. It makes them feel bigger. So anyway, because I want women to self examine and not to rely on the doctor every six months because he doesn't know your body, You know, your body

In fact, I, because they have experienced I got involved with something called the Live Kit. Is it live kid in Australia? I think it is, and it's a self breast examination tool that helps you decipher lumps in your body more easily in your breast more easily. It makes them feel bigger. So anyway, because I want women to self examine and not to rely on the doctor every six months because he doesn't know your body, You know, your body

and you're doing a self examination that?

and you're doing a self examination that?

Yeah. So I found it and, um,

Yeah. So I found it and, um,

went to the doctor and he did a He sent me down for a mammogram which didn't show anything. And then a needle biopsy, which didn't show anything. So he I said, there's something I just knew there was something wrong. So he didn't

went to the doctor and he did a He sent me down for a mammogram which didn't show anything. And then a needle biopsy, which didn't show anything. So he I said, there's something I just knew there was something wrong. So he didn't

make it because I didn't

make it because I didn't

feel right. And I think you have to trust that I was really tired.

feel right. And I think you have to trust that I was really tired.

I was just, you know, you just know. I don't know how. He explained, you have an instinct about your body, and you need to listen to it. So

I was just, you know, you just know. I don't know how. He explained, you have an instinct about your body, and you need to listen to it. So

you asked for more tests?

you asked for more tests?

Yeah. So he did a surgical biopsy that day, and then I had to leave because my father was dying and I had to leave to go see him. And I still had just had the surgery, Didn't tell him.

Yeah. So he did a surgical biopsy that day, and then I had to leave because my father was dying and I had to leave to go see him. And I still had just had the surgery, Didn't tell him.

So it was all, you know, again, all these things come filing on top of each other.

So it was all, you know, again, all these things come filing on top of each other.

And then what was the period between you finding out and realising that you had to announce it publicly?

And then what was the period between you finding out and realising that you had to announce it publicly?

Well, the reason I announced it publicly is because one of those, you know, national inquiry type of magazines had got wind of it. I think someone at the imaging place had contacted them and they were going to write a story, Uh, that I was dying, you know, kind of similar to what's happening now. So, um, I decided to do an article and talk about it because I didn't want my family,

Well, the reason I announced it publicly is because one of those, you know, national inquiry type of magazines had got wind of it. I think someone at the imaging place had contacted them and they were going to write a story, Uh, that I was dying, you know, kind of similar to what's happening now. So, um, I decided to do an article and talk about it because I didn't want my family,

um, reading about it before I had a chance to tell them what was going on. So we decided to Yes, just make a clean breast of it, excuse the pun and discuss it and tell me what was going on so that there'd be no secrets or, you know, that's really how that happened.

um, reading about it before I had a chance to tell them what was going on. So we decided to Yes, just make a clean breast of it, excuse the pun and discuss it and tell me what was going on so that there'd be no secrets or, you know, that's really how that happened.

So it was not your timetable it was, for it was almost forced upon. I

So it was not your timetable it was, for it was almost forced upon. I

hadn't planned on it, but I'm actually grateful that happened because it gave me an opportunity to talk about something that was a little taboo. It was taboo to me. I mean, to think about going on television and talking about my breasts and lumps, and in the beginning it was really awkward.

hadn't planned on it, but I'm actually grateful that happened because it gave me an opportunity to talk about something that was a little taboo. It was taboo to me. I mean, to think about going on television and talking about my breasts and lumps, and in the beginning it was really awkward.

You know, time has gone on now. So many years have gone by that now it's quite normal.

You know, time has gone on now. So many years have gone by that now it's quite normal.

You have friends

You have friends

and walks, but at the time I was one of the first. I think there was another girl in show business, Jill, someone who'd gone through it before. But I was probably the first.

and walks, but at the time I was one of the first. I think there was another girl in show business, Jill, someone who'd gone through it before. But I was probably the first.

You come out of it internationally, I think.

You come out of it internationally, I think.

And what's it like? I mean, you've got these two tracks. Obviously, you've got your own feelings about it and then having to deal with everyone else's feelings about it. And I see this in many people I know who have cancer,

And what's it like? I mean, you've got these two tracks. Obviously, you've got your own feelings about it and then having to deal with everyone else's feelings about it. And I see this in many people I know who have cancer,

and other people's feelings can be a burden. I can't imagine what laying fame over all of that is also like, How do you deal with those two different tracks?

and other people's feelings can be a burden. I can't imagine what laying fame over all of that is also like, How do you deal with those two different tracks?

Well, what I did and I recommend this to all women

Well, what I did and I recommend this to all women

or men who are listening, who have an illness, whether it be breast cancer or whatever it is, find somebody else to do the talking to your friends, because what I found was I'd go to tell a friend and they burst into tears and you go, Oh, no, I don't need that. I need support. So I engaged a couple of girlfriends, um, to speak to my friends and be the layers of what was going on So I could just live my life

or men who are listening, who have an illness, whether it be breast cancer or whatever it is, find somebody else to do the talking to your friends, because what I found was I'd go to tell a friend and they burst into tears and you go, Oh, no, I don't need that. I need support. So I engaged a couple of girlfriends, um, to speak to my friends and be the layers of what was going on So I could just live my life

and dedicate that time to meditation or doing a yoga class or going for a walk or being in nature, which is my favourite thing or being with my animals. So I didn't have to perpetually be talking about a myself and be my illness. And I think it's not healthy. It just keeps you in that sick mode, you know,

and dedicate that time to meditation or doing a yoga class or going for a walk or being in nature, which is my favourite thing or being with my animals. So I didn't have to perpetually be talking about a myself and be my illness. And I think it's not healthy. It just keeps you in that sick mode, you know,

and then the fame side with with strangers wanting to talk to you about it. What was that

and then the fame side with with strangers wanting to talk to you about it. What was that

like? Well, most of those people are really positive and, uh, sensitive. There are people now again who,

like? Well, most of those people are really positive and, uh, sensitive. There are people now again who,

and I don't think it's deliberate, but they want to quote you facts about how many people have died of this. And when I know that's helpful, I really wanna or

and I don't think it's deliberate, but they want to quote you facts about how many people have died of this. And when I know that's helpful, I really wanna or

do they say I've got this treatment. If you just rub tumeric on your pulse points

do they say I've got this treatment. If you just rub tumeric on your pulse points

and all those things I listened to because I believe in natural therapies. And that's what I'm doing now, back then, I did chemotherapy and, um, didn't again. Didn't want to, but I did it. Um, But

and all those things I listened to because I believe in natural therapies. And that's what I'm doing now, back then, I did chemotherapy and, um, didn't again. Didn't want to, but I did it. Um, But

you almost like yourself out of it, didn't you?

you almost like yourself out of it, didn't you?

Yeah. Yeah, I was again. Afraid.

Yeah. Yeah, I was again. Afraid.

What were you so scared

What were you so scared

of? I thought that they put the needle in. I was going to die. That was just my vision. I'm going to be the

of? I thought that they put the needle in. I was going to die. That was just my vision. I'm going to be the

first person who is meant to work the other way.

first person who is meant to work the other way.

Anyway, that was my I don't like

Anyway, that was my I don't like

medicine. I don't like those things. So they just kind of freaked me out. My mother never took an aspirin, and she was that kind of person. So I grew up in that kind of natural household.

medicine. I don't like those things. So they just kind of freaked me out. My mother never took an aspirin, and she was that kind of person. So I grew up in that kind of natural household.

So you had a mastectomy and chemo the first time, and you write about how there were people outside your house shouting at you to try meditation.

So you had a mastectomy and chemo the first time, and you write about how there were people outside your house shouting at you to try meditation.

Yes. Actually, that was a good idea. I did

Yes. Actually, that was a good idea. I did

it,

it,

uh, possess someone to come and shout about what treatment someone else should have.

uh, possess someone to come and shout about what treatment someone else should have.

It's funny, isn't remember this guy pulling up in my at my gate

It's funny, isn't remember this guy pulling up in my at my gate

in I think a limo and opening the limo and ringing the bell. And I had security at that time because it was my Britney Day, as I call it, and

in I think a limo and opening the limo and ringing the bell. And I had security at that time because it was my Britney Day, as I call it, and

shouting out Oh, you should just do tm and all this stuff. And I remember it, actually. And

shouting out Oh, you should just do tm and all this stuff. And I remember it, actually. And

I did it, actually, And it was a good thing.

I did it, actually, And it was a good thing.

Like thanks for that.

Like thanks for that.

It wasn't really because of him, but it was something I was doing anyway. But

It wasn't really because of him, but it was something I was doing anyway. But

I'm already on it.

I'm already on it.

The feeling I mean, the meaning was well, meaning. Tell

The feeling I mean, the meaning was well, meaning. Tell

me about the Britney days. I love that you describe it like that. Why do you describe him as your Britney days?

me about the Britney days. I love that you describe it like that. Why do you describe him as your Britney days?

Well, because that was my, you know, physical and Greece. And

Well, because that was my, you know, physical and Greece. And

I was I mean, it wasn't the tabloids like now. And it wasn't social media like now, But

I was I mean, it wasn't the tabloids like now. And it wasn't social media like now, But

it wasn't TMZ.

it wasn't TMZ.

No, they weren't following you like that. I mean, it was a certain amount of it, but nothing like I used to get upset if they took a picture of me over the fence or something in Australia. But,

No, they weren't following you like that. I mean, it was a certain amount of it, but nothing like I used to get upset if they took a picture of me over the fence or something in Australia. But,

um, nothing compared to the stuff they do now. But it was my big time. So that's what I call it that

um, nothing compared to the stuff they do now. But it was my big time. So that's what I call it that

physical? I was just watched it again this morning. God, that was a brilliant video. But also really strange. Yeah, it starts with this sort of almost home. I was watching. I was going. This is quite homoerotic. Before I watched the end of it all These like, buff guy

physical? I was just watched it again this morning. God, that was a brilliant video. But also really strange. Yeah, it starts with this sort of almost home. I was watching. I was going. This is quite homoerotic. Before I watched the end of it all These like, buff guy

guys doing, you know, working out, and you and I was like, Gosh, this is so interesting. Male sexuality and women sort of ogling men is never portrayed in music videos. So it was really progressive. And you had your short hair and you had your aerobics outfit. And then they became, like, contestants on the biggest loser Cut to that. And then you were in a shower. You came back and the guys were hot again.

guys doing, you know, working out, and you and I was like, Gosh, this is so interesting. Male sexuality and women sort of ogling men is never portrayed in music videos. So it was really progressive. And you had your short hair and you had your aerobics outfit. And then they became, like, contestants on the biggest loser Cut to that. And then you were in a shower. You came back and the guys were hot again.

And then the guys just walk off holding hands at the

And then the guys just walk off holding hands at the

end. Gay.

end. Gay.

And it was, like, very subversive, like in that time. And you say in the book, you didn't really think anything of it. Like when you read this video treatment. Did you think Oh, this is a bit risque.

And it was, like, very subversive, like in that time. And you say in the book, you didn't really think anything of it. Like when you read this video treatment. Did you think Oh, this is a bit risque.

The song I thought it was more risky. The video was supposed to solve that

The song I thought it was more risky. The video was supposed to solve that