The Jimmy & Nath show is the biggest weeknight radio programs in Australia. Hosted by best mates, Jimmy Smith and Nathan Roye.
Jimmy and Nath joined Mia Freedman in the Mamamia studios for a candid conversation about their careers, their successes, their friendship, as well as the ways that they're using their platform and their audience to discuss some really important things - from mental health to domestic violence. We also hear about what it’s like when your best mate gets married, how to fight back against the influence of Andrew Tate, and why Jimmy didn’t like Nath when they first met. This is a must-listen episode of No Filter with Mia Freedman.
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CREDITS:
Host: Mia Freedman
You can find Mia on Instagram here and get her newsletter here.
Follow Jimmy & Nath on Instagram here
Producers: Kimberley Braddish & Naima Brown
Audio Producers: Leah Porges & Thom Lion
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
You're listening to A Mother and Me a podcast. Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on from Mamma Mia. You're listening to No Filter, and my name's Mia Freedmen. There's a lot of bad news about men around at the moment. You may have noticed, not all men, of course, but some men, men who are violent towards women, Men like Andrew Tate, who are infecting the minds of boys and young men with viral poison about women and about what it means to be a man. He's gross. I love men. I love the man I'm married, and the men I gave birth to, and the men I work with, and the men who are my friends and my relatives. And as the mother of sons, I've always scanned the horizon for good men, and there are plenty out there, most of them, in fact, They just don't tend to get the same kind of attention as the shitty ones, which is why today you're going to meet two great men. They work together, they're best friends, and they're not hay Mish and Andy, although they have been compared to them. Jimmy Smith and Nathan Roy are radio hosts and podcasters, and they're also a brand called Jimmy and Nath. Jimmy's thirty four, Nath is thirty one, and they could not be more different in some ways. Jimmy struggles with his mental health and Nath is like a Golden retriever in human form, always wagging his tail. Jimmy has blown up romantic partnerships in the past due to battles with addiction, which is something he's working on. Nath is happily married. In other ways, though, the ways that really count, they are strikingly similar, and this is a conversation about friendship and communication and what it looks like to be a good man. They're very funny blokes, Jimmy and Nath, and they like to make people laugh and they like to make each other laugh. So when we sat down together in person in the No Filter studio here at Mum and MEA, I expected that we would be talking about their careers and their successes and matship and the ways that they're using their platform and their audience. They have half a million followers just on Instagram and they use those platforms to discuss some really important things. What I didn't expect was some tears and vulnerability, and well it was a love story, or in other words, maybe a bromance. So in a way, their romance is a romantic comedy. A romantic comedy. Did I just invent a new genre? But in the spirit of all good romantic comedies, it was not love at first sight. Let's do this. Jimmy Nath, Jimmy Nath, Hello, tell me how did you meet?
Well?
I hated Nathan.
This is the best story. We love getting asked to like a rom com Yeah, like hated me. I mean it's probably best to be described from your yes.
I grew up in gunder Windy in the country, moved to Brisbane, lived in America. For me, it came out to Brisbane. Never pursued media, but had a lot of friends that like, you should do it, should do it. One of my closest friends moved to Sydney said just come down with me, stay for twelve months, try and get into the industry. So I end up at Nova on the Street Team. I meet Nath and just instantly hated him.
We were you also on the street team? What is the street team? Explained For those who don't know what a street team.
So the street team is every radio show has one, and it's when they go out and they're the guys who wear the branding of the station and they're handing out the Coca Cola or the movie tickets.
We still exist street teams.
I think COVID killed it.
No, they still exist. So when we're at Nova, we were called the cast Novas. They've had a rebrand. Really, they're now called the Supernovas, which is very clever.
So you hated him? Why how old were you both? First of all, I.
Would have been twenty one one.
Yeah, I would twenty three twenty four. So I met. I remember we were in the car park in Sydney and Piedmont where the station still is, and I remember like people had talked to me about Nathan, and I just remember this big guy walking towards him. His hair was a lot more blonder then and he was.
Just like high overcombed Jimmy do I good fining, meet you, Welcome to Sydney.
Just so much energy and they still have and I don't have that level of I'm got a very pick and choose.
Yes, I get that many times A.
Tattook Golden retriever, but without tattoos.
Yeah.
I just didn't have anyone like that in my life, that really big energy guy. And I was like, I just never gonna like this guy anyway, Warm me down.
What was your impression?
My impression of everybody when I first meet them is how lovely are they? Which is nice, it is until you know, I realized that some people aren't who I thought they were straight away.
It's very golden retreat.
It's very golden retriever. If you have like a little shiny toy in your hand out, we'll run towards you.
Ah.
And I mean that was the same with Jim. Every time there was a new person that came on, I wanted them to feel a part of the family because we had we had built as corny as it sounds, we had built a little family that we would you know, we would work together with and then we'd kind of go out with because we were in those years. We were you know, we were going out buying a goon bag and you know that was it a now fifteen dollars an hour. And then same thing to Jim was being like, okay, he's a little bit quiet, but I was like, I'll break those walls down I will see the real hymn. He also had a top knot, which I didn't love at the time when I first met him.
Choice, Yeah, I've had a lot of hairst It was the first.
Bit of feedback I've ever given him was let's lose the top knot and then you did shaved it off.
They went to shaved head. Yeah, I've had shaved head, bleached blonde hair, I've had it all.
That's the one time you ever listened to me twelve years ago.
How did you become mates?
Like?
What are the sign posts of mate chip between two guys.
The thing that really actually impressed me with Nath was, I think because I had an interest in media at the time, that was why I moved to Sea. I had never really met anyone in my life that had the work ethic that Nath did. I was super impressed. I was like, this guy constantly shows up, he's finishing his law degree, he would do anything. I was like, Wow, I was really impressed by that. But I was also taken back because in this industry, I feel a lot of times people had taken advantage of and Nathan was being taken advantage of. He was doing everything at that business like for everyone, and I was like, and I just remember we having a beer once and I was like, what do you want to do though, and he's like, I want to be on air, like I want to have a show.
And I was like, I think I first said ah, bit of this, bit of that.
Yeah, like all of it, and You're like, I remember you, like, I want to do one because you had the community show with Coxy. You're done as part of it.
So my degree was media communications and law, and as part of the media communication side, had to go and do an internship. And my dream was always to be on Getaway. I always want to be on Getaway. I used to watch Jewels Laden and I was like that guy goes to like Thailand and like swims in pools and gets paid. I was like, let me be that. And then we had to do an internship. And one of my other best friends, my Jimmy. Before Jimmy, he had sent me a thing online for nov they were looking for an intern like unpaid internship, and I was like, how good is this? Went for it didn't get it and I was like, oh okay, and then so I went I applied for this one two I.
Didn't get the unpaid intern.
Did you get it? That didn't get it?
What a brutal blow, But it is because I mean that's how we all started in media.
Absolutely, and then some of the didn't get it me. So I was like, well, stuff these I'm going to go to two r DJ, which was a Burwood community station that only broadcast to the Burwood Library Niche audience. This is without a word of a lie. At one point we when I did a show there, there was only four people listening and three of those people were called Betty. Three of the four people will called Betty in the library.
What did that teach you?
Humility? Yeah, humility being the big one, but also the importance of when you do get the foot in the door, although it was a you know, a creaky old door at the back of like a I think it was like a church or something in Burwood, to just do everything you can to make that the best product possible, because I mean, we were playing CDs. We couldn't go to ads at any point, so you just had to talk or you had to be okay just loading the cassette. And that's where it started.
So what year was this that you guys started to Become.
Mates twenty fourteen, fourteen.
Yeah, when we you first on air.
Together September twenty sixth, twenty fifteen. I know because my dad made a mug.
In every creative partnership, you do fall into roles in terms of who does what heavy lifting and what you each contribute, and sometimes that's unwritten and just works itself out. How did you navigate that at the beginning? Who was doing what well?
I mean to go back to the very very start and the naming of the show was, you know, the first official decision that we had to make. To answer your question me, like the roles that we developed, we just fell into them because we came up from two different sides of the business. But that first decision, when we're at two IDJ, we were sitting there doing this drive show with June looking through the window and she told us that we were laughing too much, that needed to be more serious. That was the first ever air check.
We got was from June was very serious.
That Our first ever talk break, and we do have it somewhere was to decide what do we call the show? Is it called Nathan Jimmy because it had been Nathan Coxy or do we call it Jimmy naighth and true story in that exact moment, live on the air. Because we couldn't go to ads, couldn't do anything. Jimmy downloaded one of those love Calculator apps and typed in Jimmy and nath and then typed in Nathan. Jimmy Nathan Jimmy came up like four percent compatibility Jimmy eighth ninety eight point nine percent. So we're like, that's the show. That's how we name Wow.
It's a beautiful ourighin story. Love Calculator. Tell me about how your friendship has developed in parallel to your working relationship.
I mean, at times it's made it easier and at times it's made it difficult.
Start with it easier.
Easy stuff is we've grown up a lot, you know, in the last ten twelve years or whatever with each other.
How are you both now thirty one?
I'm thirty four.
Yeah, so it's been around ten years years. Happy anniversary, Thank you so much.
Where's the case.
I think there's beauty in having my best friend around as much as I do. As I've gotten older, and you know, friends have gotten into relationships, marriages, kids, et cetera. You know more work responsibilities. I don't see my friends as much as I grow older, I know that every day I'm still going to see my best mate. You know, we have work, and my dad always said to me, find a job you love. You'll never work a day in your life. That's fucking wrong. There are days where this is hard, like hard work.
For someone who hasn't listened to your show, can you describe it how it is now?
It's escape isn't really joy joy. I think when we started it it was just we wanted to make each other laugh. That was probably because we had that common like stuff that we found funny. And then from that we discover that, you know, people have this real sense of joy and escape ism and I found out to have depression and anxiety. It's something I've had in my whole life, but I found that out through the journey of radio as well. And part of this show that we created, which I love, is that you know, life's really hard, like it's hard. We just hope that whether people tune in for one show or a podcast a week a month, find us on the socials, whatever it is just gives them a laugh, smile on their face.
It's one of the one of the most difficult conversations we ever had with the content director was about five six years ago, and we sat down with him and he was quite influential, and we were very nervous to meet this guy. And we sat down with him and he said to us, who you're targeting, what's the target of Jimmy at who you're going after? Who's your demographic? And we replied, everybody. We want everybody. Why I put one line in when we can throw a whole net in And he goes stupid, who's your demographic? Is it blokes like you? You're going after blokes? And we're like, no, no, no, we want to go after everybody. We want to provide content that can capture eight to eighty sorry about seven and eighty one, but you know, we want to throw that wide net out.
Tough stuff.
But we've never understood it just going after I mean, the importance of demographics is there for sales, and I get that side, but we've never understood the point in creating contents solely, particularly in radio, which is accessible to everybody, solely, you know, targeted at one particular area or one particular demographic, when you know, we want to be number one overall, so we try and balance our content to do so. You know, we might talk about sport at one point, and then we might you know, talk about gossip or Taylor Swift or something to hit that you know, that gen z area. There's so many different tweaks that we make in our content to ensure that it is accessible for everybody. And you have a.
Podcast as well, bloody hell, stop cutting my grass. What's your podcast about?
Yeah, that's called Born Funny where we sit down long form chat to funny people deep if we.
Catch up with that. Born Funny is about us catching up with the world's funniest people and figuring out if they were born funny or if it's something that they've picked up and developed along the way. And it's not just stand up comedians or comics or TV stars, it's athletes, it's authors.
Yeah, it's it be funny to start with.
No.
Most of the time we asked them at the start of the podcast, do you think you were born funny?
And do their whole life?
Ninety eight percent of the time they changed their answer by the end.
You mentioned before, Jimmy that you guys shared values. Can you tell me what those values are.
I think work ethic is a big one, and I know that was one of the first things jim brought up. We met in an industry that we all passionate about and something that we wanted to grow in and to be a part of for hopefully a long time, and we needed that other person to be, you know, a cog in allowing us to achieve that, and we didn't have that. So from the outset that was the number one thing that we shared. Do we like radio, yes, Do we want to have a career in this yes? Do we work hard? Yes? That was the initial three foundations of Jimmy Nah, because I had done shows and I worked on the street team with different people before who were kind of like had one foot in, one foot out. They're like, oh, yeah, this kind of works whatever, but also like kind of like writing and doing TV stuff and music, which is fine and that's great, but I needed somebody who was going to be like me because I have no other skills, right, I can only really talk talk and be creative. I don't I can't play music, I can't act, I can't do any of that stuff.
Did you get your law degree?
In the end, I did get law degree. It took a very long time be lawyer. Oh I'd like to think of myself as the lawyer of the gym.
Nation, which Snaith would stop saying in meetings on the in house council for Jimmy days and being like, it's fine.
I'm still One of my favorite jokes is let me check with legal, don't worry.
Also that I've never been to school, never ever been to university.
There's still people in our business that go like, take him seriously, Oh yeah, And I'm like, no.
When I ask you guys questions, you come back to work all the time. But when I'm talking about values, work ethic is one, but I'm thinking of other kinds of values.
A big thing Nathan and I on trying to empower others and maybe give people who don't have a voice the voice. And it's interesting when you say that, you ask us those questions and we come back to work. And something I've you know, and still trying to unravel and do is we've put so much of ourselves into this. I don't think Nathan and I know where Jimmy, James Smith, nath Nathan Roy begin and where it ends in terms of work and life. It's so intertwined, which is difficult. And I am somewhat jealous of Nay's relationship with his wife. They met on the street team at Nova before Nath and I met, and she has been with Nath over that journey and being able to see and navigate that. And I've made terrible decisions in my own life that haven't allowed me to have that, like what depression anxiety, not knowing I've had it and knowing I've had it, made terrible decisions with drugs and alcohol and trying to self medicate that, hurting ex partners, cheating on them, making terrible decisions. I wish I hadn't done those things, you know. That's put it in a more difficult position now. And the partner I have at the moment is amazing, and I love Charlotte very much and I'm very hopeful of it. And I'm still trying to work through that because there are times where I'm doing things or saying things and she's even looking at me, going that's a work that there needs to be some sort of separation there.
What do you mean?
There needs to be a separation between what is the Jimmy and a show and what is work and being able to switch off and get away from.
That and create boundaries for something that we've had to learn as well.
There hasn't been boundaries.
More with Jimmy and nath and me after a short break. Where's an example of where there hasn't been boundaries and it's come back to bite you.
I'd say more recently, it's being on the phone and still posting on a weekend and checking in on socials, looking at an email. Because Nathan and I are friends, We'll still want to talk about rugby league or something like we're sports fans, but that conversation will bleed back to work. And I've had conversations with many psychologists about this app Whatever our workplace is or whatever our work is, our brain releases chemicals into the brain, right because it's like, you know, if you're working onto a job site, once you step onto that job site, ain actually flooded with the chemicals. It's like we're on today, this is what we're at right. So for Nathan and I, yes, there's the studio and you could say stepping into there, but opening my phone and posting some something on social media and opening the jim and eighth. Instagram is also flooding my brain with that same chemical when I talk to nath and it's about rugby league, but then it transitions to he's like, did you see that email? So they want us to do this thing. Chemical release into my brain and I think I mentioned earlier, I don't have as much battery as Naith does, and I will be drained and I will come home and I will sit next to my partner and I just have nothing to offer her, and it breaks my heart.
I listened to your podcast with doctor Sandra. I can't remember her surname, and I wanted to bring this up, and Jimmy provided the perfect leading there when she talks about, you know, the draining of social battery, and the people that drain your social battery are the ones that are closest to you. We love each other the bits we have best friends, but fuck, we drain each other so much. Me particularly because I am you know, apolloder gate constantly and I'm you know, I love creating big things and my like, you know, people do stupid things when they have a few drinks on a weekend. My stupid thing when I have a few drinks on a weekend is to email some sort of brand and pitch them a radio idea.
Oh, I.
Hear so like true story on my Honeymoon, on my after the wedding on my honeymoon, which is only months ago. Jim noses because they did on the show. We were in Hamilton Island and I was sitting there with my wife and we had, like, you know, a few bottles of pino Noa. We're sitting there and I was on my phone. She goes, what are you doing? And I was just like, I've just and Taylor Swift was in town. I was like, I've just come up with a great idea, and she goes, are you fucking doing work? She goes, show me your phone And I had sent this huge message about that long to Suzuki Australia True story after a few bottles of red white, and I had pitched them when Taylor Swift came to Sydney, because they've got the Suzuki Swift, why don't we do a thing called the Swift Lifts. And Jimmy and I could start a convoy and get pick all these people up in Suzuki Swift and drive them out to a Core Stadium and watch Taylor Swift and Meg's like, are you fucking kidding? We are on our honeymoon, and we did do it on the show and Suzuki left me on red for a bit, but then they came back, which is nice. But you can't turn that off exactly.
I get that because that's me, right, and I exhaust people.
I drain people.
I drained. That's such a good way thinking of it. I drain people's batteries. And then conversely, when you've got someone that you love who vibrates at a different frequency, like Jimmy and like everybody else in my life, that drains my battery. That can drain my battery, absolutely, because I get fed by being around people who are like me. But then also even I get tired of me, I drain my own battery.
I don't know about you, I absolutely do. And that's why I mean ginspekes so well about it, for I'm so lucky you talk about the reason, you know, while we are so close and we have values that we share, but because we have values that we don't share, that improves me as a human as well. Like what so the ability to put up boundaries and step back. Not everything needs to be a big thing. You don't need to reach out to everybody. You can be okay when Suzuki leaves you on Red and not being like the show is fucked. No one's into us. No one wants to do a Taylor Swift idea because that's I'm either all up here or if it doesn't happen, it's doom and gloom.
It's all over, which is where you live a lot of the time. Yes, in doom and gloom. And then anxiety is different to being up because I also have that. That's awful. Anxiety is awful.
We had a lunch in the calendar last week week before and team was due. Jared is here today, Nay, everyone in our team and so we pre recorded the Friday night show so we could go to this lunch. It was just Sony. We love Sony. It was celebrating some of the work we've done with their artists. I'm going to sit down and have a nice lunch, boozy lunch, talk about some ideas. I woke up Friday morning. My left hand shakes so badly when I'm anxious and just could not get out of bed, could not get out of bed, and it's the worst fucking feeling. And it was even worse because I'd burnt myself two weeks with so much. We'd had so many events, so many things with the show, all this extra stuff, and my partner wanted to do something for Friday night and I just I couldn't. I couldn't do anything. And then it's like, why did I do all this other stuff in the person that I, you know, with no offense to night, Like nath is my best mate, but here's someone I love and care about and I want to be better for her. I can't get out of bed and go to the event. I can't even be around her, Like, I can't fucking do anything.
It's just what do you do?
Text? So there's a part in the brain that works the gratitude thing of like, but you can't just think of it because you know, when you're own head and there's all the chemicals. So I physically write down the things that I'm thankful for, and that you know, starts to slow me down. I meditate, try and control my breathing, and then unfortunately part of that is just rest. Like I can't then try and force myself, and you know, I have to explain that to my partner and tell Nathan, I'm like, I actually do need some time away from everyone because my battery will get recharged from being away from everybody, which is difficult as well. So that's, you know, also something I'm trying to manage in that I have to look at my calendar constantly to be like, I'm gonna need to put some space in there where i can just slow down to be able not just to do the work stuff, but also be able to do my life stuff.
I mean, you talk about, you know, putting boundaries in and stuff as well, and I've had to learn this. You know, my Jim mentioned her before, but my wife Meg is the most incredible human being on the planet, hands down, and I will fight anybody who argues. She has been you know, with me as long as you know, Jim and I have been together, has watched that journey, has seen the highs and lows between us commercially as a business, seen our success, and she has this incredible ability to know, not it sounds cliche, but to put things into this wonderful perspective for me as well. So when I'm carrying this stress or anxiety or anything from work and I come back to her. God, she just has this unbelievable ability to you know, hear perfectly, but then also kind of justify why I've done something, but also explain how I don't have to react in a certain way or don't have to do that kind of thing. A bit of backstory on her. She has cissy fiber and she was the first Australian to summit Matt Kilimanjaro in Africa. We see her right a quite literally a high achiever. Cissy fibrosis is a illness that you can't see, but it operates internally and it impacts one of two things or both, either pancreas or the lungs. In makes condition, it impacts both the pancreas and the lungs, to the point where people describe the way she breathes as like breathing through a straw. So when we take a big breath in, we can fit our lungs, we can exhale as everyone normally does. With her, every time she takes a big breath in, it'd be like breathing through a straw. That's how much she can fill her lungs every single time, and then her pancreas on the other side of things. Finds it very difficult to break down food and draw nutrients out of that food. So she has you know a plethora of different medications and things that she needs to do, and her diligence towards that is part and parcel in why her health is so incredible. We've done so many different things on the show that have allowed us to showcase, you know, the work that she does in that. Like there was a tricafter which was a new drug that came in that quite literally saved a lot of people's lives with cissy fibrosis, and she was at the forefront of you know, helping her bring that to the country and we raise money for it with Kilimajara. But you know, doing that kind of stuff on the show allows me to intermix my personal life and the show in such a beautiful way.
What does it mean, nath given her condition when you guys plan your future together.
It's a difficult one. It's a very difficult one, and it's one that we've kind of, you know, we've had to have hard conversations about a lot, to the point where you know, I hate thinking anything negatively and stuff. As you can probably kind of gather with me. So it's something that I've had to be better with and be able to sit there and, you know, look at her and be realistic about where our life could potentially go. And she won't mind me talking about this, but we've had tests and stuff done so when we you know, we want kids pretty soon. If I carried the CF gene and she carried the c F gene, then we would have to, for safety reasons, go through IVF. Luckily I don't carry the CF gene and she does, which means I did it. Guys really good for our mom and dad, which means that we can conceive a child that doesn't have cisic fibrosis. All the risk is incredibly low. But we have to have those conversations.
Is she able to carry a pregnancy? She is?
She is, but it needs to happen sooner rather than later. So yeah, she wouldn't be able to do it later on in life.
We'll finish up soon. I don't want to get in the way that she and.
She loves this podcast, so we will be having it on me.
That's good. Think of me, Jimmy. It's better than thinking of.
You, which is what I normally know.
Exactly exactly after the break. What happens when your best mate gets married and there's three of you in this relationship. I want to ask about your relationship with Meg because the relationship of a best friend and a partner is an interesting one. How have you navigated that? What's been the kind of milestones in your relationship with her?
Look, you know, she's an incredible woman, you know, not just her battles with Sissi fhibrosis ors, you know, which she's done professionally as well. And early in the relationship, you know, really trying to be around and be there. But as we've gotten older, I actually think it's been more healthy to step away from it. Look, it's been difficult, I think not. I think. I know as Nathan and I again have gotten older, and you know, you put so much into your career, but putting stuff into my career means also putting things into night and vice versa. For him to invest in Jimy and eighth, it also means investing in me. And there are times that I have not had growth with certain things because I haven't need to the things that I have lacked. Nate has provided give me an example dealing with depression anxiety in those real low moments. Because Nathan that gold matruver and he's all up at about and we were living together and doing the show, I never had to face those real hard low moments because he's always on. So rather than sit with my thoughts, sit with my emotions, sit in my feelings, I'm like, I could just sit in the couch with him, play golf with him, just put myself next to him. And also Nathan and I have discovered that he has no internal monologue, so I'm always.
Like a granddad may like I will drive somebody.
My brain like voice, just no voices in me.
Just say what I see. Like if we're driving past the petrol station, it's like fifty for like diesel. I don't even drive a fucking diesel car. I'll go Pasca. Diesel's expensive.
Oh so you've got no filters into brain fall straight out.
There's no voice in his head talking to him.
Too, there's no inside your head voice.
No, because again, like he's constantly talking, he's constantly happy, and he always wants to do something like play a game, do something, provide an escape. So when yeah, when I was you know, struggling, I just was like I just need to spend more time with him. I don't have to think because I'm listening to his voice. We're physically doing something, and then you're exhausted by the time you go to bed.
So you know, you're exhausted by the time you go to bed, And do you also find it tiring being around him when he's low?
It was?
Yeah, it was. I mean, especially you know, as.
Much as you enjoy talking to yourself, Yeah, of course.
Lower. So I'm giving him nothing, so I've got a Yeah, that's really exhausting.
It was, but I didn't see it as exhausting because I saw it as trying to help, you know, my best friend who needed help. There would be times me or we were doing breakfast radio at the time, and we would be talking up until one two am, and it would just be asked, just talking back and forth. And at the infancy of you know, Jimmy, you know, starting his journey with mental health and depression and anxiety, I was also at the start of my journey with that as well, in understanding what it was doing to my best friend. And I had no idea, like to the point where I'd sit there and go, yeah, maybe maybe just like need a sleep more or maybe you need it. In my heart, I was like I want to, you know, provide this guy with you know, like what makes me happy. Maybe let's go get pizza. Did you want pizza? It took me many, many years, and you know, I now see a psychologist as well, to upskill myself in certain different ways. But it took so much learning, Like he lied on me for certain things. But I have and absolutely still do rely on Jim for so many different things. The main thing being because the thing that Jim you know, still taught me and something that has helped me grow as a person particularly, you know, not just in work, but just in life, is to stand up for myself a little bit. Like I mean, I've always been a hustler, that's true, but I've never been a fighter. When it comes to know more awkward conversations like asking him for more money, gott want to be like yeah, yeah, absolutely and people I've.
Just seen people be mean to him, just nasty.
Yeah, and take it. You learn to absolutely to bite like the dog that you have in your first that time drew blood twice, you're gone it again. People learned something that that I had to learn and some that Jim's taught me, and I feel like I'm slowly getting better at it. Yeah, But was just to be okay when I'm having a tougher conversation with particularly a superior or asking for more money or better conditions or a better team which will get one day who pays for parking? And to be okay when, as Jim said, if somebody you know doesn't shine to me in the way that I would hope that they would shine to me. And to deal with, you know, negative, I've always been okay with negative feedback. But it's always been like when somebody has angry yea.
Yeah, Jimmy, you talk about your journey with mental health, it's usually not something that turns up later in life. It's often the seeds are sown way before you realize it. Speaking from personal.
Experience, wasn't it always been there?
Yeah?
Until I was in my thirties that I realized I'd had anxiety in my whole life and was diagnosed. How were you diagnosed?
Yeah, definitely something I dealt with my entire life. For me, drugs, alcohol was self medicating one of the hardest things. I mean, I've spoken a lot about this to you and your audience, so just try to articulate it well enough. I do struggle with talking about it though. I find I have to talk about it if I talk about in the radio show when I'm in a better place than being completely honest with you. I'm not a great place right now.
Do you want to not talk about it?
I like to talk about it, and I've been trying to talk about it more when I'm not in a good place because I feel like i can better explain how I'm feeling and a lot of people don't do that. And I've spoken about it because unfortunately, those people that have depression anxiety take their own life. There's over eight people a day that take their own life in Australia, and unfortunately that I get to talk about it because they take their life and it's someone, yeah, their family and friend that talks about it. For me, a lot of the drugs and alcohol was self sabotaging. Life was good and I felt really shit, so I was like, I need to go do something shit because when life isn't great and I would have these down moments, I was okay with it in a way because I'm like, I'm not where I want to be professionally on my relationship isn't great. There's a reason as to why I'm feeling like this. So when I'm up and things are flying and I feel really shitty, I'm like, gotta do something shitty because this is just not sitting well with me.
That's such a revelation, and I imagine it's almost like that lifestyle manifestation of self harm where it's like you want your outsides to match your insides.
Yep, so that you had been something I'd been doing a long time exercise as well. When we're doing the breakfast radio show. I'd get up at three am every morning, go to the gym first, but you know, I'd also be out on a weekend bendering till you know, six, seven, eight nine in the morning.
Used to run yourself into the ground, just yeah, bern like.
I do F forty five after the show. Then I'd do Pilartis in the afternoon.
Like I was just looking for those endorphins, Yes.
Just chasing the high. That was what the you know, destroying myself and then I needed to try and get the endorphins back. Nathan and I were having conversations, you know around the days are you okay, day November, all these different things. I have the November taty on my finger because it was a November conversation I was having where we're sitting there, were chatting to someone and I was like, I know what it was, just clicked them with that. No, that's me, that's actually me. I am depressed and I'm very anxious. So went to my GP, spoke to him. He put me on a mental health plan, got to see a psychologist. How old were you at this stage, oh, in Hobot's a twenty six seven.
Remember when we had that, we had this conversation. I mean, I know we've already spoken about it when we'd have those you know, hour long conversations at home because I didn't really know what he needed to hear. And it got to the point where we were having these conversations so frequently, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, where he's like, you know, maybe I need to sleep more, maybe I need to, you know, go out more. Maybe I need to jerk off more, maybe I need to all these different things that we were trying to figure out. And it got to the point where I said to you, I was like, mate, I think you need to talk to somebody who knows more. And that hurt me to say, because I was like, I can't help him. I can't help my best mate. I can't provide him what he needs.
But why would you ever think that you could?
Because I was so naive. I was so naive, and.
So neither of you had, like you did have experience of in your family with your mates, no one that knew going to therapy. It wasn't something that was even on the radar with you guys.
No. I grew ub in going to India in the country and you.
Know, not a big therapy town.
No, No, the opposite of progressive. And my parents are still there. You didn't have any of these conversations. My family never had a history of alcoholism as well. In my family, there is depression in my family. A lot of bad black dogs.
Your dad's dad took his life.
Right, that was nad Yeah, my dad's your.
Dad's dad took his own life. So what did you know about depression?
Well, we never spoke about it. Never. Even to this day, we still don't speak about it like it's something that you know. It comes up every now and then, and my all my family are so incredible, and they're an extension of me. Jimmy fucking He finds it so funny because when we're like, he's come over Christmas and stuff.
But just a whole house of golden retriever.
Is Mum, my dad, my sister and me, same person, same person. And Dad's like this big, gentle giant. But I could count on one hand how many times we've spoken about Gerard his dad, no idea, Like, all I know is that he put a gun in his mouth. That's all I know.
Day's dad spoke to me at nace Bucks party, grabbed me and we walked away and had a conversation and it wasn't really an apology as such. And I don't have children, and you know, we were raised by our parents, and then we make decisions based upon that the stuff that they did that was good, the stuff that they did was bad. How I'm going to do it differently. And he said to me, something awful happened to me and happened to my father. And all I ever wanted to do was just have my kids in the most positive, uplifting household. And he's like, and I don't know if that's been hard as well.
Which he did, by the way, like I'm so lucky that I.
Could, and I hugged him and we were both sort of teary and nice dad reaches out. That's a set. It's hard when people reach out. Sometimes you're not a great spot because sometimes you don't talk about it. But no, Dad has reached out to me times to talk and we could sit here, and you know, it's easy to play those things about, like maybe Nate's dad has conversations with him, But Nathle also saved me plenty of times, and I was super low and he was just happy, and sometimes you need that. You just need someone who's just you know, we did have conversations, but there are plenty of times where we didn't. You just need someone to have a laugh and go for a walk or sit next to Everyone can do it, and it's just one of the worst things about you know, our brain, like should have, could have would I've spent a lot of time at Nace's house and with his family and now the most positive people you'll ever meet. And sometimes it's insufferable, Dad, but a lot of the time, like you need it, Like I'll be honest, there are times when you know I still get low and it's just nice to be around my happy golden retriever. You ever patted a dog, They're fucking lovely. Yeah.
I was thinking about this before because you know, obviously we've been on this unbelievable you know, journey of highs and lows with Jim and the struggles that you faced and the bravery that he show on air to talk about this stuff, which is it's just so important, like it is so important, and the messages we get and the emails that we get when Jim opens up about that is it's unbelievable. And people sharing their stories in a way that you know that these people have never said this before, and they're emailing two complete fucking strains.
It's wild.
I'm jumping in for a second because I want to play you a piece of audio from Jimmy and Nath's radio show. Recently, Jimmy spoke about the suicide of professional golf for a guy called Grayson Murray. And here's a portion of what Jimmy shared on air.
You might be asking yourself, why is Jimmy talking about this to start the show? This didn't even happen here in Australia. To answer, honestly, I don't know. I didn't know Grayson. Maybe it's because I love golf. Maybe it's because I suffer from depression and anxiety myself. But if I'm being really honest, it's because my biggest fear is one day I will take my own life. Eight point six Australians die every day by side, that's over eight Australians every day, seventy five percent of those who take their own life for mail and suicide is the leading cause of death for Australians between the ages of fifteen and forty four. So when you ask yourself, why Isimy talking about this, it's because it needs to stop.
Oh you can really hear the anger and the fear and the sorrow in Jimmy's voice. And this video went viral. It had an undeniable impact, reached millions of people, which is amazing. But for Jimmy, of course, there's a cost to sharing so much of himself with the public. Let's go back to our.
Conversation Grayceome Murray videos getting three four million views, that's just on Instagram. That's tough. I've been getting stopped in the street more. You know, the gym people come up to me coffee shop, and that's, like I said, when I'm already struggling, it's I probably don't want to do anymore. I mean, I'm happy to obviously have this conversation, you know better in terms of the radio show and that, like and the socials, I'm like, I just need a break from it sometimes because I hope that I help people, but it's everyone. People just come up to you and they don't they don't know anyone. They don't they've suffering themselves with depression, anxiety or some sort of mental health issue, or they've known someone who's suffered and someone that's sadly taking their ownenough. Like I said, it's over eight people a day that's still doing that in his country. They finally can see someone and they can be like, I want to talk to you.
When Jim opens up about that. What I was saying is, you know, obviously they message him, but a lot of the time they call me and they ask how easy can we do anything for him? Is he okay? And all that kind of stuff. Two weeks ago, a close friend of ours she called me and I was like, oh, she's gonna ask about Jim, like you know, all that kind of stuff. I was like, hey, how are you, and she goes, hey, I just want to make sure you're okay. How are you? I just cried. I just balled my eyes and I don't know why. I didn't know why, and she goes, you're okay, and I was like, no one asked me that before, and you know, when you didn't know you needed to be asked a question until you're asked that question. And I was like, I've been so used to, you know, looking after my best mate and making sure he's okay, and of course my wife as well, and you know, as dad was being like a caretaker and trying to offer as much as myself to the people around me as possible as somebody who has a you know, no internal monologue and kind of just says things all the time. I'd never check in, never with myself. Never.
I will say I'm proud of Nathan that, you know, recently started seeing a psychologist. And it's something I've literally spoken about a lot, is that it's not just people who are you severely depressed or anxious. It's one of the most wonderful things to chat to someone completely outside of your own circle in your.
Own how anyone gets through life with you don't need to have a diagnosed mental illness to it.
You know, anyone listening, I would employ you, even if in your own head, if you're like, you know, I'm fine, go and talk to somebody, even if you are. Because I went in there and I sat down with my psychologist, who her name's Jane, and she's fucking unbelievable. And I sat down with her and she goes, why are you here? And I was like, I don't know, and she has just unlocked so many different things, and I think I eventually gave the answer was like, I want to improve myself.
You know.
I want to be a better best friend and a better co host. I want to be a better husband. I want to be a better brother to my sister, a son to my you know, my mum and dad. I want to I want to be better. I don't know how it can be better. That's your job, Jane, make me better.
I love it.
And Jim and I again, we've we've spoken at length about this as well. And I would, you know, I would implore as somebody who ironically ten years ago told him to go and see somebody. It took me a long time to do what I was saying to other people.
I think you've got to do it in your thirties so that you can enjoy your forties. Yeah, that's my experience. I want to ask you about women. Yeah, something that there used to be and very much. This is why I'm a bit about radio is that it used to just be such a sexist. It's still such a male dominated part of the industry, which is why podcasts have just been such a wonderful place for women to flourish, because every gatekeeper in radio tends to be a man, and most of the hosts tend to be guys. Now, what's interesting to me is that you guys are very blokey, but you are real feminists. I don't know if you would identify as feminists.
Yeah.
Ironically, we've got our ratings the other day and our biggest audience is the twenty five to fifty five female.
Why do you think that is.
I mean, we make content choices, as I mentioned earlier on the show in the hours, and but again we're not women, so any content even like, I'm not an older person, I don't have kids, but you you, I've always tried to have as many conversations as I can with other people, so you learn about other people. I can't walk on your shoes. I don't know who you am, but I can sit there and I can listen. I can understand, or at least hope to what makes you tick, what you like, what you don't like, so as to why they do. I mean, we again, we hope for everyone to listen. But you know it's nice. I think you know, we are feminists. You know, we try to have conversations. Unfortunately, men tend to only listen to men. And you know that's why Nathan and I, as two straight white men and our privilege, we need to be having conversations that are difficult to have so that other men listen and go, oh, maybe you're talking about it. It might be And I think that's what also women respond to.
You know, we've touched on it a bit so far since we've been chatting to But we're so lucky because we have some phenomenal women in our life who continue to shape who we are. And you know, we make jokes on air and stuff, but they're they're better than us. They are all better than us, Like my wife Meg, Jim and I we many times on air, like she is just a better person. She's funnier, she's smarter. And I said this in my wedding vowls, and Jim knows because we're standing right next to me. I said something along the lines of, like, you know, people have mentors in their life that they look up to. They might be in their industry. They might be a professional sports star or Lebron James, or if you're in comedy, you Hannah Gadsby or someone like that. Not only do I have a mentor in my life, it's somebody that I got to meet. It's somebody that I see every day, and it's somebody that I'm about to marry and have sex. And well, I mean, I hope fingers crossed.
It's interesting what you say because it's also about being a role model for boys, because I'm the mother of a fifteen year old and also a twenty seven year old son and an eighteen year old daughter. But in terms of role models for young men, Andrew Tait is front center. Not for my son, but he's certainly dominant. And you wouldn't find a teenage boy who didn't know his name and who hasn't seen his content. What's your view about that?
It's repulsive, really, and there's a reason that name has never even been said on our show.
Why do you think he's so popular and how do we counteract it?
I think it's about conversations because there is a.
Large systematic change in education.
But there is a large part of me that you know, I open social media and I see comments around Andrew Tate and kids following him in these pages about you know, how to be a real man and what you're to do, whether that be on Twitter or x what it's called TikTok Instagram. Right exists, I would say, as someone to grow up in a small country town that existed, right, there were these misogynistic views about how we viewed women and looked at them, and I definitely held some of those views because the men in my life and around me had those views.
And you hadn't been exposed to other ones.
So you'd see that. The reason that it changed for me was traveling was a big part. You know, moving to Brisbane, which probably doesn't sound like much, but then moving overseas as well and traveling. I was always interested in having conversations and meeting people, and if I would say something or make a joke at the expense of a woman or someone. There were people around me that held me accountable and they would go hey. They wouldn't say don't do it. They would always say why are you doing that? Why are you saying that? And it was the way they phrased that that I was like, oh, no, isn't this funny? And they're like is it? And then I'd like ruminate on it and you'd be like, no, it's not.
Because like the old sexist humor jokes, all of that kind of stuff, you had to unlearn that.
Yes, right, So that tells me that where we are now, as someone who's unlearned it is that these kids are learning it from social media, right, That must be where they're learning it or the men in their life somewhere.
It also shows me that they're capable of unlearning it.
That keeps correct right, So that where to me it comes back to there is some confusion as to they're learning it somewhere, So we need to have conversations. So we need to get into schools, social media wherever they are at a young enough age to have a conversation and not you know, this sounds fucked but at times when you yell at a man going on. But if we're at a part of something and someone says or does something, hey, mate, what are you doing there? Why why are you saying that? Right that? Don't say that, that tends to lead to a conversation and positive change.
We had We had a conversation me or with a psychologist who came on the other day. I'm going to get this wrong, but she did say something along the lines of, you know, with the unbelievably horrible things that are happening to women in this country and largely around the world, you know, there is a growth in the amount of men who are acknowledging that this is an issue, that there's an issue that needs to be addressed. A lot of these people going, yes, there's an issue. What they aren't doing is realizing that it's their issue. They're saying, yes, there's an issue, but I'm not going it's nothing to do with that.
That's my issue.
It's like, yeah, holy shit, that house is burning. God, that house is burning. But I didn't put I'm well, it's.
That's a shame.
But I can see it, I can see I acknowledge it, and they think just by acknowledging it. Their job's done. They go, oh, it's like that bullshit thing when people go not all men, not all men are part of the problem, but all men can be a part of the solution. Education, calling out things, calling out things when they see it. And I read a thing the other day on you know, the role that men can play in lowering the horribleness of domestic violence and people being like, you know, you can use humor to be like, oh, mate, you shouldn't be saying that. That's not enough. It's not fucking enough. Because we talk in jokes, men talking jokes all the time, and because we talk in jokes and we're operating jokes all the time, we can't differentiate when you know, the joke I'm telling he's actually has a serious underlying meaning here. So it's not enough, it's not through. It doesn't cut through because that's how we operate constantly all the time. So if I were to sit there and be like, oh, you shouldn't say that, you'd be like, oh, yeah, right. Anyway, it's not enough to do that.
So Julia Gillard spoke on the weekend, She did an interview and she said that they've feend so many strides forward for women in the last few decades and generations that there's a group of disaffected young men who are gravitating to Andrew Tate, who think that it's been at their expense and that things have gone too far and women have got too much. And she said, no one's really asked these young boys and men, are you okay?
Yeah? And you know why, because blokes hate sitting in uncomfortability, They hate having that uncomfortable conversation and recognizing that, yes, there's an issue, but they're not connecting it to being like, this is not a women's issue. This is not a women's issue at all. This is our issue. This is a men's issue. And until we bridge that gap and understand that that issue is not just an issue, it's our issue, we're not going to have any change until that bridge has been built between the two things.
When I was talking about the mental health stuff the other day, and I was putting it through the lens as a man and hopefully speaking to men, because again I mentioned those numbers and it's also seventy five percent of people who take their own life in Australia are men. A big thing, right is in a lot of these organizations. You know, we're talking and talking, but I think it's talking and listening. So it's the same thing with you know, young men, and what they're saying is like it has to be a conversation. And a lot of the things I've discovered in moving around the country, living overseas, living here is that men talk in statements. It's like, fuck them, fuck this, I did that. This is what happened. Yeah I did this thing. We don't really am I right, we don't, yeah, don't. We don't really converse. Like you'll sit at a pub even if you're watching the football and say, oh that guy was offside. I can't leave that call. There isn't enough actual conversation. We're not sitting here going, you know, asking a young man, Okay, how are they feeling? Why are they saying? Like, we don't talk. We just say things at each other and then sote leave.
Happens all the time, to the point where you know, we have a really close friend of ours who recently went through a pretty bad breakup and then we went to the parb as all mates and all that kind of stuff, and we were there for halla at five six hours I come home and Meg turns to me and she goes, how is he? And you would have heard this before. How is he?
Like?
Has it gone?
And I go, oh, yeah, he's fine. The rooster's got up, so he's stock and he goes, you know, but what about the relationship? Did you ask him how he was?
And as I moved out, they still talking whatever.
And the best bit was I did ask him how he was. He goes, yeah, good, He goes great, awesome, what do you want to drink?
But also that yeah, there is we don't.
Want to sit in the young comport you okay? Yeah, moving on?
There is a box tick now, especially I think with the movement around talking about it right and it's okay. I've had bosses and Nathan Noses, one of our bosses came up to me and after I had been open about likely I've got two stories into the shreds, one both on Aeoka, they both different. After I had been open about my depression anxiety, one boss came up and slapped me on the back and he goes, better, ask you, mate, you're the depressed one. You're okay, finger guns? Give me finger guns.
Sitting next to him.
Let this go finger guns anyway.
A finger gunner. Wow, it was a real cowboy.
I was like, yes, real wiggle. Tried to handle that the best I could. Another boss came up. She looked at me, She's like caging me. Yess, how's the pointing to her head?
Looks like depression.
Again, you know. I mean you can extend it further than just man, you know, but it's there is a box sick now. So you ask someone if they're okay, even they said, and then it's done and you can move on. But I do think a large part of that is, yeah, a lot of the conversations and then you'll be right without a mate in.
A better way for them to handle that, apart from in the completely opposite way. But literally, if you've got someone and you want to check in without doing the head till hey.
The talking is I guess asking the question is part that. So you've got to converse. So it's like, you know, how are you feeling. I've said that to men previously, and they have asked it, and I've seen it in a setting. But then they're already thinking of the next thing to say. They're like, I'm going to ask them how they are I'm going to ask them, you know how she are you moving out? But they haven't listened to anything any follow up. No, it's just I'm prepping the next question, prepping the next question. So that's why when I talk about I try and add the thing of like it's talking, but it's listening. You have to be listening to what they're saying, because again, men don't often get the opportunity. And I guess I'm privileged because when I talk about it, people come up to me and they will just open.
Up right privilege.
But people will want to talk about it. They will. They just no one's asking them. They're just waiting for that opportunity. And I'll bet you that there have been people that have inspired maybe what I've said or anyone said, and they've asked a question, but they just have not listened. And that one has said something about their not well or they need help, but they're already on to the next question. And that could have been a way to go, oh, if you're not great, gp mental health plan, let's check in, let's hit another date to have a coffee.
It's one thing we've noticed, you know, with our show, is you know one that creates joy and a bit of escape. But when we have those conversations, you know, be about women and DV or mental health, like, that's when the real cut through is. If we just constantly bang on about it every single day, every single hour, there's no cut through because it's the exact same thing exactly. But when we do it, people listen, which is why we get such an incredible reaction from people. I mean, yes, a lot of those messages that we get are quite heavy with people opening up, and you know, we've had training since on how to deal with that, and we have you know, some pretty full on conversations about what's the response here, what do we need to do. But that's one thing that we've noticed with our platform and why we still think, you know, radio is alive and can have that impact on people. It's when we do things like that that really cut through. Like we'll get millions of views on our jokes and all that kind of stuff and people go, aha, good one, share it whatever. But people will write me a paragraph when we have conversations about this stuff. That's cut through. In my opinion.
You asked earlier, you know, about our values, and I said they've changed and that is educating is a huge part. It's the value that Nathan I have is educating people now and understanding that, you know, we can use our platform for good. We can bring everyone in with the humor and the escape isn't them in there, And then we've got people in our audience that would not have these conversations. And to be honest, they never think they're coming because we're these fun guys who are doing all this fun stuff. But when we do it like it hits and then you get millions of views on something and I always need to remove myself because that's not a measurement of success. But when it comes about these more serious topics and you're getting millions of views, it does warm heart. People are talking about it, people are sharing it.
We do that on purpose, by the way. We don't tell them like radio, it's all about hooks and teasers and this is coming up and coming up.
Jimmy's doing depression.
We're giving away your TV by the way, Yes, who's anxious again? We've got to sting depressed. You know, we purposely don't do that, and I know it's kind of a stealth bit of it. Yeah, it's a bit.
We'll do it after joking about it. He was like we were doing breakfast and he was like sort of talking about like, you know, you should hook that through the show. You're going to do this big chat about depression. That makes me.
I'm not going to hook that, Christ And we'll strategically put it after like a big prize giveaway or dad jokes or you know, a regular segment that people know when are a part of, so we can fucking blindside them and be like we know you're here, so now you're going to listen to this.
Jimmy and Nath, thank you so much. I'm a new fan. Okay, it's time for a debrief. Look, I didn't know really anything about Jimmy and Nath. Someone suggested that I interview them, and it's kind of not my world.
There.
You know, two men in their early thirties and I don't listen to radio, so I kind of wasn't aware of them.
But I'm a bit.
In love after that. I mean, I'm in love with their friendship. Because when you are marinating in the news cycle like I have to as part of my job, and look, you can't really miss the news stories that we've all been seeing over the last few months and years particularly, there's a new story every day, or more than one every day, about men doing something awful, and it's easy to get pretty cynical and pretty bitter and pretty angry. I don't know. I just love being reminded, not that I need reminding, because I've got so many wonderful men in my life, but I don't know the way they speak, the role models that they are for a new generation of young men. I think it's also no accident that so many of their listeners are women. There's something about the friendship and the camaraderie of men when there is no sexism there whatsoever. And it's interesting because Hamish and Andy are the same. There's no undercurrent of any kind. There's not a tinge, there's not a whisper of any sexism. And I know that sounds probably ridiculous to point out, but in a world where I don't know, I grew up with Benny Hill, how about you let Alone, Andrew Tate, etc. It's just so lovely and it's so refreshing and so inspiring. It's hard to listen to Jimmy and nath and the way they talk about their friendship and their creative partnership, and their mental health and their struggles and their support for one another, and how they feel about the women in their life and not feel really hopeful. I am definitely going to be cheering them on from this point, and I hope that more people, especially men, continue to learn and listen to them and from them. Hop up a link to their podcast in the show notes, where we'll also share some links to resources in case this episode brought up anything difficult for you around mental health or suicide. Take Jimmy and Nate's advice and please get the help and the support that you need. I know I do all the time. Therapy is the best thing that I ever did. I agree with Jimmy and even Naith is now a convert. Thanks for listening, and if that conversation left you wanting more, you are in luck. We have more than five hundred incredible conversations in our archive for you to binge. We've been doing this show for ten years now, so we have some really amazing conversations. Wherever you get your podcasts, which is right here because you're listening to me, go find them, get them in your ears. Love you see soon. This episode was produced by Naima Brown, with sound production by Leah Porges and Tom Lyon.