Jameela Jamil may as well be Aussie, she feels like one of us—funny, unfiltered, and refreshingly nonchalant.
You might know her as Tahani from The Good Place, but these days she’s just as well known for her fearless activism on body image, mental health, and gender equality.
What you'll hear in this conversation:
Jameela doesn’t hold back—and thank god. This episode is for anyone who’s ever felt like they didn’t quite fit the mold, who’s had a complicated relationship with their body or their mind, or who simply wants to hear a refreshingly honest take on what it means to be a woman right now
Jameela is currently touring the country, if you would like learn more and get tickets, follow the link here.
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CREDITS:
Host: Kate Langbroek
Guest: Jameela Jamil
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Senior Producer: Grace Rouvray
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
You're listening to a Mama Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on.
We can't be like men, a trash man, A trash man, a trash We cannot keep going with this ship. There's Miss Andrews shit that's going on that I've been against from the very start that I don't think I participated in too much, because then, of course, why the fuck could teenage boys side with us?
Why would they think we're a welcoming space to go to?
Jamila Jamil has never been to Australia, but she feels like one of us. She loves to swear, carries a nonchalant charm, and has a self assuredness that's genuinely refreshing to be around. You might know Jamila as Tahani from The Good Place, a role she landed without any formal acting training, but in recent years she's become just as well known for her activism, speaking out powerfully on issues like body image, mental health, and gender equality. Given her outspoken advocacy and what she describes as biting the hand that feeds her, it's no surprise that Jamila and I dove straight into the deep stuff. We talked body image, the chaos of the online world, and her call to rebrand toxic masculinity. When I asked about Andrew Tate, she didn't miss a beat. Why give men like him airtime when we should be championing the good ones instead?
We also talked.
About friendship and its role in our mental health, the importance of lifting each other up, and something I really loved, Jamilla's appreciation for aging. She's counting down to her fortieth birthday just ten months away and says she couldn't be happier to put her twenties behind her. A conversation with Jamila Jamil feels like an off the cuff ted talk, smart and funny and passionate and completely and filtered.
Here's Jamila Jamale. Hello, how welcome to No Filter. Well, I'm great. You've come from a busy life.
What was the nature of the whirl wind that blew you into us today on No Filter? Oh?
I mean, I'm recording a new podcast that comes out on May seventh, which is called Wrong Turns, and it's all about I'm just fucking sick of this inspirational, you know, just poorn life that we're in where everything has to have some sort of fucking silver lining. So I decided to make a podcast about all the dumber shit we ever did that There was no great pearl of wisdom from there was no silver lining.
Sometimes we actually get dumber, you know, from that decision.
And so it's it's all of our bad decisions and mishaps that are just kind of anti inspiration pro commiseration. So I'm currently recording that before I come over to Australia to be with you, which is really exciting. And then I'm just writing a lot, writing substat writing books, and I've got a Pixel movie coming out in June that's Oh.
Really, are you an animation? I am. I'm a bloody animation. I'm a big orange squid thing. But I hope with shiny hair.
Oh I don't think. I don't think i'll have hair, But I am shiny. I'm definitely shiny. I'm shiny, I'm sparkly, I'm some sort of like obscene ambassador.
It's all going to be very extra Yeah.
Good, Well, this is what I expect from you, and in fact, I think the world is coming to expect that from you.
Oh God, it depends whether they read the daily mail or not.
Yeah.
Well, here's the thing about you. Now, this is a lot of people know you from the good place, right. And when I first saw you, and it was in a part in her life when we were I have four children.
We were living in Italy for a couple of years.
Madness, but so we weren't exposed to a lot of that ancillary media that you see when you're in your native country.
Yeah, so I didn't.
Know you from some of the Yes, yeah I didn't know. I saw you on that And this is what I thought about you, like enough to do a deep dive on you. You know how sometimes people just capture you. You've captured a lot of people. I thought that you were posh, right, I thought you were posh, and I thought you had a posh must have had a posh background. And so to have learnt about your upbringing and the pain that you experienced as a child, that has led you to somehow essue the privileges and all the beautiful things.
That you say.
Is that has led me to annihilating my own career by every time it feeds me, because I feel very passionately about people.
Who don't have a lot.
But yeah, yes, well it's an extraordinary thing because we do know, those of us who work in any platform really where you can you can make choices to pursue certain goals, and they might be you could have been a material girl.
Yeah, yeah, I could have.
There are days where I think maybe I should have. But generally I sleep better at night if at all, knowing that I've taken the path I have because I you know, my inner twelve year old follows me everywhere and she's such a judgmental little bitch that I just wouldn't be able to get anything past her.
I have. I have to.
Do what I do otherwise she'll, you know, she'll give me the stinkye and I can't bear it.
So everything I do is for her. And a child stinkite is the worst.
The worst, because they really, like, you know, they're hard to that.
Kids really get it. They can really see you.
That's why there's nothing worse than when you pick up a baby and it cries.
You're like, fuck, you can see.
I've got no soul shit, Or when a dog barks at you.
You know, yeah, it's embarrassing, you like feel as so.
Yeah, and much rather an adult hates me than a baby.
Well, speaking of hating you, Yeah, but you are coming to Australia, Yes.
You're You're here next week, which is a rare trait. Have you been here before? I've never been. I've always wanted to go.
Oh really Yeah. I watched a movie called The Castle when I was a child, and I became obsessed with Australian culture after that. And then obviously it's like Muriel's Wedding I think had come out just before then, which I then started watching religiously and then consuming it.
Katherine Kim Yeah, yeah, I think him.
And so like I've always like, you know, all the stuff that I watch on like on social media is all like Australian comedy that I've just been. I've had a long running obsession with Australia and never managed to get out there because it's such a long flight and also I just didn't know if anyone would want to see me out there. But then when I was invited to come speak.
I was like one hundred percent yes, get me there now.
Well, so, because you do have an Australian ness to your energy, which is you're a massive swear, massive swear. But there's a forthrightness to you. Yeah, and so when you come out here and it's described as a as a night of candid conversation and so hard chat and silly discussion, the hard chat, I know you can go hard. What will be the hard chat? Can I guess some of it? I mean, I'm sure you can body stuff?
Yeah, men.
Yeah, toxic masculinity, which which is I don't know what term exists anymore, Like it's not masculinity, whatever the fuck that is is not masculinity.
I know what musculinity is. I love musculinity. Not only do I have musculinity within myself, but my boyfriend is a very masculine man. Whatever I'm seeing in that other ship has got to have a new name.
Okay, So but yeah, sorry, it'll be a well no, I was going to say in your your great since renamed podcast, Iwagh, that was always very interesting. You had a conversation with James Baldoni in which Jason and it was justin Baldoni Sorry, I'm trying to invoke your boyfriend as well, where he said he didn't like the term toxic masculinity, which was the first.
Time really that I had thought about that.
Through that prism since then, because that was a couple of years ago, things have escalated, Yeah, fast, What is it?
Do you think it's a couple off and things?
It's you know, I think part of it is the fact that the Internet means that everything moves so fast and snowballs. But I think ultimately it's the male loneliness epidemic. And rather than them looking up the fact that the patriarchy destroys men's lives, they look at us as the problem. They see that women are getting ahead. We know, we're doing better at school. We learn to read and write faster than boys, and we generally tend to excel at secondary school. We are buying houses faster than boys. We are securing ourselves financially. The vibrators have become brilliant, and women friendships are stronger than they've ever been, you know, post media movement, women have become less divisive towards one another, and we've started to really pair up and find that got a lot of what I need from a relationship, what're mctually getting from my mates? And so really now our standard has become very high of that I don't need you, I want to want someone. You know, I was just talking about this recently on another podcast, that I don't need my boyfriend.
I make as much money as him.
I can afford my house on my own, I have a great circle of friends.
He's in my life because I want him, not because I need him.
And and I think that men have no tools as to rise to the occasion to be the emotionally intelligent partners in crime that we need.
So it's easier just to drag us down.
It's easier to drag us back down to where we were before rather than level up to where women are now.
And we see that all the time. We've seen that throughout history.
Anytime women start to excel, rather than men going fuck, they're kind of keep catching up with us, or they're getting ahead. We need to step up our game, they just go, okay, let's just rip them back down, take away their rights, distract them, make them feel ugly, make them feel old, scare the shit out of them, and then they'll feel like they need us again. And that to me is just very sad because then men miss out on evolding.
Well, that's the theories, you know, it's a if you play a part in your own demise, that's kind of what's happening with a lot of men because of the isolation, the alienation from women, They denied the gifts that women bring to life.
Yeah, but also they're not taught even how to talk to each other.
The amount of times I'll fucking i'll know so much more about my male friends than my male friends know about each other. And they've known each other for longer. I'll know one of them is going through a divorce, or one of them suicidal, or one of them struggling with anxiety or a rectile fucking dysfunction, and they may have no idea about any of this. They don't talk to each other. Like how many times have you heard a like a middle let Like you heard your dad come home from seeing another dad who's going through a divorce and asked him how he's doing? Is like, oh, I never came up. It's just they don't talk to each other, you know. Katlain Moran wrote this fucking brilliant book called What About Boys, and she talks about the fact that men don't even plan for their third act. Women are continuously planning for their third act. We're gathering our friendship, strengthening the ones that we want to really grow old with. You know, we're plotting our lives for when the children grow up and leave the home. Men don't. Men just start to atrophy once they get married and they stop keeping up with their friendships as much, and then they kind of settle on the idea that well, I guess I'll just become friends with whoever the husband is of my wife's friends, and she'll organize our social calendar. And that's fucking devastating for them. They're not taught to build out their emotional skill sets, and it's hurting them because look at how fast they're killing themselves. You know, America's got all this gun death. Sixty percent of that gun death is men turning the gun on themselves. There's a reason more men kill themselves than women, and it's because women have each other. Men don't have each other, and they don't really have us.
Coming up after this short break, Jamila, she is the mean we should be talking about. I mean, when I say she shares them, we discuss them anyway.
We'll be right back.
So when we're like having this discussion, Yeah, how do we have the discussion without other ring meen from that process?
Is it up to us?
Is it up to women, which is such a mind boggle to try and draw men in.
I think you're not gonna like answer, well, I know, I I tell me, I think it is. I think it is.
I think we You know, men are on the fucking front lines, literally with their bodies. And maybe there aren't that many wars in all of our countries, right, but whenever there is any kind of shit that goes down, it's men who were sent. To the point where when we talk about who dies at war, we talk about women and children. We never talk about how many men died at war. We're like, and women and children were killed. They're seen as completely fucking disposable, and they have built these worlds for us. They have built much of this world, and that has not necessarily been our choice. We would have happily it was three hundred and fifty women who built the Waterloo Bridge. Women are perfectly capable and could have definitely participated in that. We're held back. But the point is is that men put their bodies on the line. That's where they are superior to ours is in their physicality. Our superiority comes in our emotional intelligence. So therefore, let's bring that to the table. Our bodies will never be frontline on a war. Our bodies will never be used for physical labor or down the minds and the same numbers that men's are. So let us step up and use the thing that we're fucking brilliant at, which is showing people how to communicate with each other, how to build. You know that women are so intelligent and powerful. We have all these gifts, and by just keeping them amongst ourselves and hoarding them and not going out there and reaching out to and across two men, we're suffering because then the more crazy they become, the more they hurt us. So it's in our best interest to use this superpower we have and share it and share the tools of it with them.
That's my opinion. And some people really don't like that. I can imagine that people don't like it. But also be any discussion about this is so people are so binary in their opinions now, which is not working.
No, But also, like listen, we're just so fucking emotional about everything, and I don't think we ever step back and are encouraged to be logical or to have critical thinking.
Right.
Logically, of course, if you have but the superiority in a skill, you should go and teach the others if you want the whole land to be.
Able to do that skill.
Right.
But I understand why women.
I have been one of those women, those loud, angry feminist women who just thinks, well, fuck off, why should we have to do this work for you? Figure out? They literally can't. And instead of figuring out, because they're so bad at this, they're just stripping our rights and taking us back to the nineteen twenties. That's what's happening. They have no idea, they don't have the manual of how to rise up to our level. So we've got to show them for our sake.
Yes, for everybody's sake.
But you know how you say you have changed in your approach, you know your thoughts about this. What is the process that led you to the change?
I think it was watching the way that everyone spoke to each other during COVID. You know, everyone split off into kind of two camps. And I was so dehumanizing and hideous to each other so fast, and like mates who've been friends for years, we're not talking to each.
Other anymore, and the language became so violent.
I was looking at the way that people felt comfortable to speak to each other everywhere. And I thought, oh, I've got a little footprint in this, because I rose to prominence as someone who's a you know, brash straight talker, very like, fuck you and you can fuck off, and you're an in cell and you're a twat, and you know, just like I was very finger pointing, very rude, very judgmental, very alienating. And I was congratulated for that. I was rewarded for it. I was decorated for it. I was called, you know, Harper's magazine called me.
Like the feminist hero we need.
I was named as one of Time magazines twenty five most influential women. I was put on the cover of like five different vogues. I couldn't there couldn't have been more of a message out there that behaving like me is the right thing to do, and this will get you ahead, and this is the right way to communicate your feelings and your activism and your passion. So by my being so decorated for what is objectively actually not very helpful behavior, I helped.
I helped.
I don't think I was responsible for it. I think Piers Morgan's got his own bigger footprint. But I helped contribute to a world that speaks to each other in a dehumanizing, impatient, and unempathetic way. And when I recognized my contribution to that culture, I was like, right, I'm going to fucking do something about this now. And so I spent the last four years trying to atone for it with a full mea culpa and trying to encourage people to actually move forward with logic and empathy.
And so because also your mastery of a pithy phrase is you mean what.
I call Lawrence Fox are freshly wranked col Yes, yes, I yes, I do not my finest hour, but you know.
No, there's something to be our very t shirt worthy.
But what was the moment?
Because for us to make progress now requires a shift in thinking, yes, and it requires us to instead look externally, because as you sort of alluded to, it's very easy in this world to.
Go will you do this? And we need to look internally, not externally. All we've been doing is looking externally. What we need to be doing is going right. Why how do I learn best?
Do I learn best when I'm being shamed, labeled, screamed at, or spoken down to or do I learn best when someone's being a little bit patient with me but firm and giving me the fact yes, and giving me a bit of the benefit of the doubt and giving me time to adjust. Obviously we all learn better with the latter. So how the fuck did we think the way that we were going about things was going to work for anyone else when that's not how any of us learn No one learns well under duress. And because we were so angry, rightfully so, and we will be angry again when the shit's over, when the pendulum swings back, which it inevitably will, we have got to do a better job at taking a breath and thinking, how am I most like? My main objective is not to communicate how angry I am or get revenge. My main objective is change. How do I most effectively get change? And that's by speaking to someone in a way that they're actually going to hear you, they're actually.
Going to learn, and they're more likely going to emphathize with you.
Interesting because I have four children, three of them are boys, double well done, very like a fascinating a living experiment, if you will, And the eldest is twenty one now the youngest is fifteen, and in that time I have seen the rise of I'm just going to say, the Andrew Tates. Yeah, the eldest not so much, but the youngest has been exposed to it and his mates, and even though they keep it sort of quiet, you know that it's just and they're not subscribers, but it's what's in the background for them. The question I always have, And when I was discussing it with my husband, I said to him. Initially, oh God, I can't wait till Andrew Tate falls in love with a woman and becomes humanized. But now I think I don't think he can.
I mean, I just don't know anything about him. I have paid no attention to him. To be perfectly honest, I don't really speak about him publicly.
I don't think that's the way to go about shifting men.
Men ultimately at base level just want to get laid, and if you tell them that the way to get laid is by being.
In this sort of way, they're more likely to try out.
So rather than us spending all of our time and attention on trying to bring down and talk about and shit on the bad men in this world where we only make them more powerful and richer and give them more algorithmic attention, and then they make more money on their YouTube views, and then they get nicer cars and nicer stuff if we just collectively ignore them and start like elevating the men who are really great, who are great, who are great, and start like, you know, I was just talking about this recently on another podcast, like look at how the world reacted to Benny Blanco talking about Selena Gomez and how wonderful and emotionally intelligence he was, and all of these women who previously had said like, I don't think he's good looking enough for her, was.
Suddenly like, I want a man like that. You know, my boyfriend as girls you know who seem.
To be frothing at the mouth at his shows, which I'd like to see because he's a sensitive man, singing beautiful songs. He's a very man, yeah, James like yeah, but he's singing very emotionally intelligent songs, and he gives emotionally intelligent interviews.
And when I see women lusting.
After him, it reassures me that, yes, that's what women want. They want an emotionally available man. Look at Pedro Pascal, look at Mark Ruffalo. Look at the men that Timothy Shalomy, you know, like none of these men I like, these toxic assholes on TikTok. We need to just stop even mentioning their names and only bigging up and going nuts for good men, kind men, secure men, like we have to show men what's sexy rather than just always tell them what's not sexy or what's not good or what we don't like. Show them what you do, like that's how they learn. I don't mean to sound patronizing, but that's what I mean.
No, no, I know exactly what you mean. A girlfriend of mine sid recently because we have these anti gene did violence ads in Australia and they're so terrible they're laughable. We shouldn't be laughable that they're terrible. But a girlfriend of mine and said, just in passing, and she's not someone who devotes a lot of time or space to thinking about stuff like that. You know, she's busy, she goes. Why don't they do a series of ads showing men doing great things, like young boys helping their mum carrying the shopping in from the car or yeah, you know, like.
That's what it was like in my day.
You know, I grew up you know, watching like men open doors for women and looking after women and being you know, st kind and wonderful. Matthew McConaughey was the thing that we were going after. And there's been a kind of death of yeah, and now there's like a death of the rom com you know, it feels timely. It's like we don't see men be romantic or kind to women, or in love with women like music used to be about men being devastated over the loss of women or so in love with a woman that he was losing his fucking mind. And that's kind of going away. Now we're not really seeing that in our art anymore, in in our media anymore. And I think that that's so sad and so detrimental to our society. There's no model for what boys should be. There's just men who are looking at who look very successful. Right. Testosterone makes men want to go out and conquer and acquire. Right, we cannot relate to that same level of urge because it's biological. So they're watching these men go out and they're technically conquering and acquiring. These men don't seem very mentally stable or particularly happy or have very fulfilling lives.
But they've got all the bits, all the stuff, you.
Know, the cars, the house, the money, the clothes. And so what we need to do is create aspirational viewing for men again, for men to see what we want. All they're seeing is what we don't want. And I think that that's a huge thing is create real role models, really start to leverage role models.
Women can do it.
That of course, is not all of my conversation with Jamila Jamil, And after this shortbreak we talk about all the good stuff friendship, don't go anywhere. And if I think about what you were just saying before, about how you've changed your tone, reflected on your tone and how it was actually divisive instead of inclusive or less likely to elicit change, Yes, I think a lot of us particularly it was a generational thing as well. I think where that we were consumed by the rage. We need to be cognizant of our own language in that because that's how you become love.
Yeah, we can't be like menu trash, meno trash, meno trash. We cannot keep going with this ship. There's miss andres shit that's going on that I've been against from the very start that I don't think I participated in too much, because then, of course, why the fuck would teenage boys side with us, Why would they think we're a welcoming space to go to. All we do is just say all they're seeing is us having open season on them. They're not really supposed to say anything bad about us. They were around for when we were oppressed. So they've just seen Taylor Swift and Beyonce dominating, you know, the music industry, and you know Angelina Joli or Scarlett Hanson or whoever, you know, like the Bella Hadid, like all these girls on top, women doing well in business, Karmla Harris, maybe didn't win, but you've got very far, and you've got female prime ministers now. And so they're just like they're looking around thinking, well, I don't have context for all of this rage. I'm fifteen and I'm being told I'm not shit and I'm trash and that the most embarrassing thing a woman can be is attracted to men. And so of course this psychopad, you know, who seem to have lots of nice money and fun and you know, good times. A most cigars are telling me that I'm worth something and I'm welcome and I'm safe with him. I'm going to go towards him. These boys just kids, just want to be safe. They don't feel safe with us. If I was a teenage boy, I wouldn't be like, oh, I'm going to go find a group of women to hang out with. I'd be fucking terrified.
I mean I would be.
I would gravitate to He's the one who tells me that I'm worth something and that he sees potential in me, and that I'm going to be something someday and I'm important, that my life is valid. And listen, I know that this sounds like a lot of like, you know, woe is boys, but woe is boys man Like they're dying and they're hurting us, and so to heal them is to heal all of us. But but but we've we've got to pull them back in on side, and we've got to look at whatever. You know, we've got to find another way to process our age about the men before so that we don't alienate the boys who are coming up now because we need them.
They're our future.
Yes, And also it's that thing about them having to pay the penalty for something that they really have no knowledge.
No, we saw this with the race conversation.
You know, it's just like, you know, we we mishandled the race conversation, I think on the left, where it's like, you know, we wanted people who currently exist with white privilege to be you know, aware of the fact that they benefit from the current system. But I think some people took it too far and wanting to like punish people whose ancestors, you know, were part of a much more racially inequitable world. You know, it's like calling them a virus, saying you know, you're inherently evil if you're a white person. And it's like these fucking white kids came up just being like, fuck, well, I haven't done anything to anyone, and I'm I'm also poor, and I don't know why I'm being held responsible for these actions of people I never met and didn't know and I don't share their politics, but I'm being blamed for it. And so then they turned away from us because they were like, fuck, I'm not safe with these people. They think I'm a virus, they think I'm a disease, they think I'm born inherently evil, and they went off. We lost those boys. We can see it in all the election results around the world. We lost all the people that we labeled, and so we need to stop fucking labeling each other and remember everyone is a product of their fucking environment. We need to remember that ultimately, the people who are true evil are at the very top of all of these countries. It's corporations and it's some governments. And we need to work together so that we all have equity. Women, women and men working together in a world always benefits the GDP, it benefits society. When we take away women's rights, a company slides down its own fucking asshole.
You know, it looks like shit, it.
Smells, it's bad, but there's no money. Everyone's fucking broke. Everyone's miserable. People are killing themselves, children are getting like, people are marrying.
Children off to grown men.
Like.
That's what happens to a society that takes away the rights of women. They're thriving when women are in power.
They're fucked.
When women have are completely empowered, And so we need to look at that and go, this isn't working for anyone.
This doesn't work for anyone.
For us to take away the liberties and rights and the value entirely of women.
It makes women miserable, but it'll all so ultimately make men miserable.
So we just need to find new ways of framing things that actually make it appealing for men. You know, like, hey, you don't want women to not be able to work and then you have to go and do all the work and then get to have no fun.
That sounds shit for you.
Let her do half the work. She's got perfectly capable. Also, happy wife, happy life totally. And also women are fantastic and when you're in a great relationship women one, it'll make you better. The reason that single men die sooner than married men is because a woman will get your ass to the fucking doctor. She will love you and cuddle you, and all that affection will settle your hormones and be good for your health. Loneliness is now considered a bigger killer than drinking or smoking. You know, they are not benefiting, and not just by the way, not just that. One of the saddest things in our society is that we place no emphasis or importance on the friendship of men and women. There's no movies about friends who are men and women who don't end up shagging at the end. There's no literature about great friends. There's no great stories on the cover of a magazine about a man and a woman who had a great idea together and they built a company. It's always two women or a.
Bunch of men. Do you know what I mean? We don't ever say anything's important.
So part of the male insecurity that I think we're seeing, And I talked about this in the speech I gave in twenty eighteen called Tell Him, which is that they think that all they're good for is their seed, because there's no importance in this world in media of men and women beyond romantic relationships, whereas actually some of my most meaningful relationships are with men that have nothing to do with sex. We have no romantic chemistry whatsoever. And they're my collaborators, they're my best friends, they're my ride or dies.
Hey do you still live in a shaer house? Only just stopped. But we're planning a share commune, Oh, which is exciting. Yeah yeah, yeah, and visit with the name Jamilville. So it's a cult. It is a cult. But that was great. This is the call you boys. Yeah, yeah, that would be me. That would be obviously, I have the hair of a cult leader. You sure do, I do?
I do. I have the hair, and I have the confident, speaking vibe of a cult leader. So come join anytime you're invited.
Cat White, I'm assuming this will be part of the silly chat.
Serious, I'm so so serious right now? Good?
But yeah, anyway, Look, this is These are some of the things that I think is that I think that media has something to answer for.
I think those of us who are older have something to answer for.
I believe, I have hope that we can turn this shit around. But if we don't do it now, we are going to run out of an opportunity. The opportunity is slipping through our fingers. Fascism is rising, Conservatism is rising. Social media is extraordinary at dividing us. We have to be having these conversations in person with each other. We have to bring men and women together as allies and recognize that we are all fucked right now and no one doing well or happy, and the only way to get out of this is with one another. We've all got very different skills and we need to work together to build a completely, a completely possible utopia. Remember that One of the main reasons that women get targeted around their looks all the time is not just a week and then distract them, but it's also because women eighty percent of the market, we're consumers, so so much of the toxicity we're ingesting it is really just to make us go out and buy stuff, because if we hate ourselves, we're more likely to go out and buy things to fix ourselves because we've been convinced we're broken. We're living in a fucked system, and we have the power now to stop it and to fix it. You know, you've talked a lot about your mental health in the past. Oh yeah, is it showing actually, but in a stunning way, in a.
In a great ways, as you've found your voice, and it's really it's like someone sitting flame to an oxy tort if.
You know what I mean. It's just it's got it's just so so strong and beautiful.
Has the liberation of yourself made a difference to your mental health and your recovery and you're navigating that.
Yes, yes, of course, speaking our minds can only lead to freedom. And you know, so many of women's autoimmune diseases have now been linked to the fact that we repress so much of our emotions. So the less repressed I am, the happier and healthier I am, of course, and the more authentic I am, and the more authentic I am, the more likely I am to meet people that I actually really resonate with, and then I become close friends with those people, and then that resolves my loneliness.
And so it's a wonderful domino effect when you.
Start to become yourself, and when you give yourself permission to fuck up and say the wrong thing and rub people out the wrong way sometimes and know that you're not going to be every cup of tea. The biggest lie that women are told is that you are expected to or can ever be everyone's cup of tea. It's not possible. We are human beings who have different tastes. And it's so funny that I grew up my whole life really not liking almost anyone, but hoping everyone would like me.
Are ridiculous? Is that it's so true that.
If you live in the public sphere and you know that that one, you know, arrow can do more than a thousand bouquets. Yeah, yeah, And why do we crave the approval of people who will never approve of us, very likely because they've already decided.
Women are told that that's the most important thing about our existence on this earth is just to be palatable in every way.
Don't take up too much space.
Just smile, be pretty, look skinny, make everyone else's lives more comfortable, you know, and then die.
But don't look old when you do. Well, you know what, Jamila jimil Well you do look pretty. Oh that's very kind. So do you look you've checked one of those buttes. Well, that's good.
I've been obedient to the patriarchy today.
There's my hope.
I get my.
Cookie.
But yeah, I think I've just set myself free and I've just learned gross self acceptance. And I'm sure part of that is the fact that I'm you know, I'm fourteen in like ten months, and the greatest gift of getting older is realizing that, oh, it's all a scam. Everything's a scam. Every beauty standard you were ever given was a scam. It was part of an ever changing loop that's just going to come back around again. It'll be fat and thin, and fat and thin, then fat and thin old than young, and you know, like, oh, it's all become so exhausting and so silly to me.
And so I love being older.
I love every year I get further away from my fucking twenties, so I can really actually.
Enjoy all of this and see that. Oh what was I worried about all those years?
Why was I trying to placate myself and mold myself and shape myself and drain myself for a few and secure men when actually the world is full of lots of men who don't.
Care about any of this shit. Jamila Jamil, cannot wait for this and more. Thank you when we see you on our shores.
Oh, I can't get that fast enough, honestly, thanks for joining us on No Filter. I had such a great time. Thank you, and thanks for showing yourself pleasure. It sounds like I've got my tits out on the podcast.
Hello. What a titan she is.
What a great mixture of humor and strength and savvy and assiness. I'm talking about Jamila Jamil, by the way, and lucky for us, she will be in Australia next week touring the country. So if you want to go and see her in the glorious flesh, there's a link to where you can get tickets.
In the show notes, the executive.
Producer of No Filter is Naima Brown, Senior producer Grace Rouvre. Sound design is by Jacob Brown and I am your host, Kate lane Brook. Back with you next week.