Ah, this is Leslie Frasier and this is the NFL Players Second Acts Podcast. Thank you all for tuning in.

Ah, this is Leslie Frasier and this is the NFL Players Second Acts Podcast. Thank you all for tuning in.

I'm Peanut tuning and this is the NFL player Second Acts Podcast. This is my guy Roman Harper. We gotta go one for y'all today. You know, I think it's beautiful. Also, let me just get all the particulars out the way, all right. Anyway you listen to us, thank you, and if you watch, whether you wherever it's at, wherever you pick up your podcast Apple Podcasts, all right, Heart Radio podcast, thank you as always give us a rating of review. Click follow continue to tell a friend, to tell a friend, to tell a friend, and we want to pick this thing up. We got a great guest today. I'm very very excited for who we have in the building today. I literally just want to start the interview because I want that we're not going to spill it all before we ever record. So let's just cut the camera on. Let's go, Peanut, who we got here. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna tell you we got we got coach Leslie Fraser here today. I was just telling him how excited I am to talk to you because I didn't know your whole complete background. I only knew you as coach Leslie Fraser. I didn't know the player who was and is inside Leslie Fraser.

I'm Peanut tuning and this is the NFL player Second Acts Podcast. This is my guy Roman Harper. We gotta go one for y'all today. You know, I think it's beautiful. Also, let me just get all the particulars out the way, all right. Anyway you listen to us, thank you, and if you watch, whether you wherever it's at, wherever you pick up your podcast Apple Podcasts, all right, Heart Radio podcast, thank you as always give us a rating of review. Click follow continue to tell a friend, to tell a friend, to tell a friend, and we want to pick this thing up. We got a great guest today. I'm very very excited for who we have in the building today. I literally just want to start the interview because I want that we're not going to spill it all before we ever record. So let's just cut the camera on. Let's go, Peanut, who we got here. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna tell you we got we got coach Leslie Fraser here today. I was just telling him how excited I am to talk to you because I didn't know your whole complete background. I only knew you as coach Leslie Fraser. I didn't know the player who was and is inside Leslie Fraser.

You can give them all the details Peanut with his resume.

You can give them all the details Peanut with his resume.

But it's just a real honor because the moment we start talking, I get immediately back into the dB room where I'm so comfortable. Feel like immediately I'm like, oh, this is like I'm immediately excited because I can talk.

But it's just a real honor because the moment we start talking, I get immediately back into the dB room where I'm so comfortable. Feel like immediately I'm like, oh, this is like I'm immediately excited because I can talk.

Ball all day long. I love it.

Ball all day long. I love it.

It was my first love, and I immediately become passionate when I get around on other dB guys immediately about it. Especially when you play the position, you understand it so much more. So let's go and let's really just dive into it. No, I don't even think I need to read his bio because you it makes no sense to read the bio.

It was my first love, and I immediately become passionate when I get around on other dB guys immediately about it. Especially when you play the position, you understand it so much more. So let's go and let's really just dive into it. No, I don't even think I need to read his bio because you it makes no sense to read the bio.

Yeah, listen, I want I want to pick up on what Roman just said.

Yeah, listen, I want I want to pick up on what Roman just said.

Uh.

Uh.

That familiarity when you're around defensive backs and that that that's like mindset. Yes, you know you feel that symmetry, man, and I feel that. You know, when you came in and spoke to our guys, uh in training camp. I think it was training camp but during the season and talk to him about taking the football away, and you add some other good things to say as well. But that really resonated with me because as a coach, you want to take the ball away. But and then watching you know, Roman throughout his career having success both in Carolina and then in New Orleans, and you know you have a chance to get some hardware as well. That makes a difference. And you know, just just being and your in the both of your company as a coach and then as a former player, you have a lot of respect for guys who know what it takes to have success on the field because a lot of times people think it's just all about being fast, being strong, that's enough to allow you to be successful. But I know we're talking about students of the game when I'm talking to the both of you. Both guys spent time in the film room. Both guys took notes on the people that they were playing against. And that's what gets me excited when I'm around other defensive backs, Guys that understand from the neck up that matters just how high I can jump, how fast I can run. And both you guys exemplify that. Man. You both understood it took more to be successful than just working out in the off season. I had to spend the time in the classroom to walk throughs miter both of you. I mean that encourages me both as a former player and as a coach as well.

That familiarity when you're around defensive backs and that that that's like mindset. Yes, you know you feel that symmetry, man, and I feel that. You know, when you came in and spoke to our guys, uh in training camp. I think it was training camp but during the season and talk to him about taking the football away, and you add some other good things to say as well. But that really resonated with me because as a coach, you want to take the ball away. But and then watching you know, Roman throughout his career having success both in Carolina and then in New Orleans, and you know you have a chance to get some hardware as well. That makes a difference. And you know, just just being and your in the both of your company as a coach and then as a former player, you have a lot of respect for guys who know what it takes to have success on the field because a lot of times people think it's just all about being fast, being strong, that's enough to allow you to be successful. But I know we're talking about students of the game when I'm talking to the both of you. Both guys spent time in the film room. Both guys took notes on the people that they were playing against. And that's what gets me excited when I'm around other defensive backs, Guys that understand from the neck up that matters just how high I can jump, how fast I can run. And both you guys exemplify that. Man. You both understood it took more to be successful than just working out in the off season. I had to spend the time in the classroom to walk throughs miter both of you. I mean that encourages me both as a former player and as a coach as well.

Is it weird that I want you to coach me right now because I feel like I can play a game with that that speech you just gave me, Like I feel like playing right now. It's talk going to be a minute ago, and I was like, I like, I still got it now. I really feel like I still got it, Like I can go play whole season right now. We ain't, but like two weeks away from the season, Like I'm ready for it now what you just told me, Like, let's let's go.

Is it weird that I want you to coach me right now because I feel like I can play a game with that that speech you just gave me, Like I feel like playing right now. It's talk going to be a minute ago, and I was like, I like, I still got it now. I really feel like I still got it, Like I can go play whole season right now. We ain't, but like two weeks away from the season, Like I'm ready for it now what you just told me, Like, let's let's go.

I'm ready to try out for somebody to I.

I'm ready to try out for somebody to I.

Think it's so special as well as like you know, coach talked about you. You know how much you helped them create turnovers and things like that. I'll never forget when Peanuts showed up with as my teammate in Carolina my second year there, and you look up and Steve Wilks's like, look, I don't know what it is, but when this guy Peanut shows up, he's gonna start punching at the ball, but naturally, you just got to keep running. Just run to the ball. It's going to hit the ground. I don't know how he does it. It just starts to happen. Not only that, but it's the same thing what you said, and Wilkes told me too. He's like, but he does it, and then all of a sudden it becomes contagious.

Think it's so special as well as like you know, coach talked about you. You know how much you helped them create turnovers and things like that. I'll never forget when Peanuts showed up with as my teammate in Carolina my second year there, and you look up and Steve Wilks's like, look, I don't know what it is, but when this guy Peanut shows up, he's gonna start punching at the ball, but naturally, you just got to keep running. Just run to the ball. It's going to hit the ground. I don't know how he does it. It just starts to happen. Not only that, but it's the same thing what you said, and Wilkes told me too. He's like, but he does it, and then all of a sudden it becomes contagious.

Running and everybody starts doing it.

Running and everybody starts doing it.

And you I didn't even know I should attempt to punch at the ball at times that I did until I got around him, and you feel safe, like you know what, I should just try it, like it doesn't hurt at all, and then all of a sudden, yeah, it costs you nothing. And then all of a sudden the balls is out and it becomes its attitude, and now we're competing about it. And when you get competitive, man with really good competitive people.

And you I didn't even know I should attempt to punch at the ball at times that I did until I got around him, and you feel safe, like you know what, I should just try it, like it doesn't hurt at all, and then all of a sudden, yeah, it costs you nothing. And then all of a sudden the balls is out and it becomes its attitude, and now we're competing about it. And when you get competitive, man with really good competitive people.

Got something.

Got something.

You got something really special there, and that is what you're talking about. And it's just really good when you get in those great rooms. And you were in a great room as a player as well on the eighty five Bears, which I just didn't know. You the freaking starting corner for the best defense of all time until I do a deep dive in because and a lot of times people don't remember you. And it's not because you didn't put up numbers. I mean, you put up great numbers, yet twenty picks in five years, Like who's putting up those numbers? Right, But it's more the fact of the injury that occurred. Your career was cut short in the biggest game, and now when you win it, we just cut the TV off. We're happy as Chicago Bears. We don't actually think about the dead bodies that we left out there. I'm not calling you a dead body, but this is what happens, and this is what life is. Can you kind of walk us through that the play call?

You got something really special there, and that is what you're talking about. And it's just really good when you get in those great rooms. And you were in a great room as a player as well on the eighty five Bears, which I just didn't know. You the freaking starting corner for the best defense of all time until I do a deep dive in because and a lot of times people don't remember you. And it's not because you didn't put up numbers. I mean, you put up great numbers, yet twenty picks in five years, Like who's putting up those numbers? Right, But it's more the fact of the injury that occurred. Your career was cut short in the biggest game, and now when you win it, we just cut the TV off. We're happy as Chicago Bears. We don't actually think about the dead bodies that we left out there. I'm not calling you a dead body, but this is what happens, and this is what life is. Can you kind of walk us through that the play call?

Like, how did that happen? Because it didn't even count as a flag? Yeah, yeah, it was, you know, one of those tough moments. We try a trick play, and I know Peanut haven't played in Chicago, is very familiar with that team and the success of our team. We try to trick play a reverse punt, now, Roman, this is a play Peanut that we practice all year long. Yeah, we practiced it all the time, and I was a guy receiving it. I had returned punts in college, and but we went like nineteen weeks man, and we never called it. I should tell our best teams. Coach. I used to say during the season when we practice it, if y'all ever call that play, I'm gonna score on it. Yeah. Then it came in in the Super Bowl. I was like, man, I can't believe they call it. Now We're in the Super Bowl. The whole scene is gone by and they call it. So I said, okay, here we go, and uh, I'll turn and catches the ball. And then you know, I'm one of the guys that's out holding up and now reverse back around and come and get the handoff. And we were playing down in New Orleans, playing New England and end up playing my foot in that turf at the Superdome and and end up tearing my a cl up and back. Then you know, the surgeons weren't what they are today. Not that was a grint and injury. But in my mind I was thinking, you know, I'm going to be one of those guys who comes back. I'm going to do something that that people haven't been doing with this injury. I'm gonna I'm gonna make it back and and and have a testimony behind it. And so I go through like eighteen months of rehab man working my tail off to get back. And so I missed a season. And then I come to training camp to see where I am from a physical standpoint, and they tell me that they don't want me to start yet. After we take the physical, you know, continue to rehab your need, work on your knee, and then we'll put you on pup and then we'll get you back out there. Well, a few days later, our head coach, Mike Dicker calls me in. He asked me to stop by his dorm room. We're up in Plattsville, Wisconsin. You didn't get a chance to right now up there, but yeah, I heard about it. Yeah. Yeah, A lot of guys would probably say lucky you. Yeah, lucky exactly right. But that's when training cameras real. Oh yeah, two days old, nine yards. Yeah. So I come to Coach Dicka's dorm room and in his room, Man, there is our owner, uh, Mike mccasking yea, our general manager at the time, you named Jerry Venissi, our team doctor, our head trainer, our director of personnel, and I say to myself, I said, man, all these guys in here to welcome me back. This is pretty cool. You know that was your first thought. That's my first thought. I really bleeding that. Nothing else went to my mind. They're just going to sit down and talk to me about my knee and where we're what our plan is going forward. And they told me that I hadn't passed the physical and they thought it was too risky for me to go back on that field. And I knew I hadn't gotten my range of motion back. I knew that in my mind, but I wasn't really ready to accept that. I wanted to be able to get back out and just try it. And you guys know, if you can't sprint in the secondary, it's gonna be hard to do your job. But mentally, you know, you don't want to accept the fact that you can't pass a physical. You've been taking physical since you were a little kid, and now all of a sudden, you can't pass a physical. So I told him, I said, you know what, why don't you guys put together a waiver and I'll sign a waver. I just want to be able to go out there and practice and see if I can do it, and they said, no, no, that's that you'd be at risk. We're not going to take that risk. And that was pretty much it. You know, got in my car and took that drive from Platsfield back to my home in Chicago, and and all these thoughts are going through my mind. I'm only about twenty six years of age at that time and just came off the third consecutive season and leading the team in interception, so put up Yeah, but no great numbers, So not the news I wanted to hear, not the way I wanted my career in. So in my mind, I'm thinking that, you know, I'm gonna work as hard as I can and maybe come back and play again. But uh, that that was a lot of self reflection on that drive back to my home in Chicago. But a little did I know God had a different plan, right, and that second act that we're going to be talking about, Uh, it's worked out really well.

Like, how did that happen? Because it didn't even count as a flag? Yeah, yeah, it was, you know, one of those tough moments. We try a trick play, and I know Peanut haven't played in Chicago, is very familiar with that team and the success of our team. We try to trick play a reverse punt, now, Roman, this is a play Peanut that we practice all year long. Yeah, we practiced it all the time, and I was a guy receiving it. I had returned punts in college, and but we went like nineteen weeks man, and we never called it. I should tell our best teams. Coach. I used to say during the season when we practice it, if y'all ever call that play, I'm gonna score on it. Yeah. Then it came in in the Super Bowl. I was like, man, I can't believe they call it. Now We're in the Super Bowl. The whole scene is gone by and they call it. So I said, okay, here we go, and uh, I'll turn and catches the ball. And then you know, I'm one of the guys that's out holding up and now reverse back around and come and get the handoff. And we were playing down in New Orleans, playing New England and end up playing my foot in that turf at the Superdome and and end up tearing my a cl up and back. Then you know, the surgeons weren't what they are today. Not that was a grint and injury. But in my mind I was thinking, you know, I'm going to be one of those guys who comes back. I'm going to do something that that people haven't been doing with this injury. I'm gonna I'm gonna make it back and and and have a testimony behind it. And so I go through like eighteen months of rehab man working my tail off to get back. And so I missed a season. And then I come to training camp to see where I am from a physical standpoint, and they tell me that they don't want me to start yet. After we take the physical, you know, continue to rehab your need, work on your knee, and then we'll put you on pup and then we'll get you back out there. Well, a few days later, our head coach, Mike Dicker calls me in. He asked me to stop by his dorm room. We're up in Plattsville, Wisconsin. You didn't get a chance to right now up there, but yeah, I heard about it. Yeah. Yeah, A lot of guys would probably say lucky you. Yeah, lucky exactly right. But that's when training cameras real. Oh yeah, two days old, nine yards. Yeah. So I come to Coach Dicka's dorm room and in his room, Man, there is our owner, uh, Mike mccasking yea, our general manager at the time, you named Jerry Venissi, our team doctor, our head trainer, our director of personnel, and I say to myself, I said, man, all these guys in here to welcome me back. This is pretty cool. You know that was your first thought. That's my first thought. I really bleeding that. Nothing else went to my mind. They're just going to sit down and talk to me about my knee and where we're what our plan is going forward. And they told me that I hadn't passed the physical and they thought it was too risky for me to go back on that field. And I knew I hadn't gotten my range of motion back. I knew that in my mind, but I wasn't really ready to accept that. I wanted to be able to get back out and just try it. And you guys know, if you can't sprint in the secondary, it's gonna be hard to do your job. But mentally, you know, you don't want to accept the fact that you can't pass a physical. You've been taking physical since you were a little kid, and now all of a sudden, you can't pass a physical. So I told him, I said, you know what, why don't you guys put together a waiver and I'll sign a waver. I just want to be able to go out there and practice and see if I can do it, and they said, no, no, that's that you'd be at risk. We're not going to take that risk. And that was pretty much it. You know, got in my car and took that drive from Platsfield back to my home in Chicago, and and all these thoughts are going through my mind. I'm only about twenty six years of age at that time and just came off the third consecutive season and leading the team in interception, so put up Yeah, but no great numbers, So not the news I wanted to hear, not the way I wanted my career in. So in my mind, I'm thinking that, you know, I'm gonna work as hard as I can and maybe come back and play again. But uh, that that was a lot of self reflection on that drive back to my home in Chicago. But a little did I know God had a different plan, right, and that second act that we're going to be talking about, Uh, it's worked out really well.

How did that? How does that injury? And we can just get into it right now, like that that injury kind of changed the trajectory of your life. Like let's let's let's talk about So you're in your car, they well back it up.

How did that? How does that injury? And we can just get into it right now, like that that injury kind of changed the trajectory of your life. Like let's let's let's talk about So you're in your car, they well back it up.

They tell you, you.

They tell you, you.

Know, we're not going to sign you your your range motion, you're injured.

Know, we're not going to sign you your your range motion, you're injured.

We got to let you know.

We got to let you know.

And then that entire drive back, like what's racing through your head? You're only twenty six year old. Do you think, well, I'm still trying to come back, or man, maybe I need a good a job. Maybe I'll be a coach, maybe I'll go back to school, maybe.

And then that entire drive back, like what's racing through your head? You're only twenty six year old. Do you think, well, I'm still trying to come back, or man, maybe I need a good a job. Maybe I'll be a coach, maybe I'll go back to school, maybe.

I'll be a whatever.

I'll be a whatever.

You know, Like what what was running through your mind? You know once they once they told you that, because I know, for me, my last day in an NFL building, or at least the Bears. When when I finally got the your cut, I walked in there, it's the general manager, it's the head coach. And I'm like, oh, okay, I think I know what time it is. I think defind it and then Charles stillman, you've been a great Bear. And then that was all I heard. And then from that point on it was just wan wanh w want wanh wanh. And I'm sitting here looking at Fox. It Wasohn Fox and he cut me. He was just like, yeah, we're not going to renew your contract. And I was just like, once he said that. I didn't hear he might have given me straight compliments, but after that I couldn't. I was just like, well, I was like, damn, this is what it feels like to get cut.

You know, Like what what was running through your mind? You know once they once they told you that, because I know, for me, my last day in an NFL building, or at least the Bears. When when I finally got the your cut, I walked in there, it's the general manager, it's the head coach. And I'm like, oh, okay, I think I know what time it is. I think defind it and then Charles stillman, you've been a great Bear. And then that was all I heard. And then from that point on it was just wan wanh w want wanh wanh. And I'm sitting here looking at Fox. It Wasohn Fox and he cut me. He was just like, yeah, we're not going to renew your contract. And I was just like, once he said that. I didn't hear he might have given me straight compliments, but after that I couldn't. I was just like, well, I was like, damn, this is what it feels like to get cut.

Man.

Man.

This feels weird. I've never been cuped before. What am I going to do? I guess I'll just go to my locker and clean my locker out.

This feels weird. I've never been cuped before. What am I going to do? I guess I'll just go to my locker and clean my locker out.

I gotta get the kids. Yeah, this is awful right now.

I gotta get the kids. Yeah, this is awful right now.

But this is what they feel like in training camp when I watch hard knocks, when the coaches get coaches cut, Like, I had all these thoughts running through my head, and then I was just like.

But this is what they feel like in training camp when I watch hard knocks, when the coaches get coaches cut, Like, I had all these thoughts running through my head, and then I was just like.

All right, huh oh yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.

All right, huh oh yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.

And then I walked out, like explain that, Like, so they let you go and you're getting this car, Like, explain that, and then how that how that specific injury changed the trajectory of your life.

And then I walked out, like explain that, Like, so they let you go and you're getting this car, Like, explain that, and then how that how that specific injury changed the trajectory of your life.

Well, all those thoughts that you mentioned, you know, west next and all those things are going through your mind, and that's exactly what was happening to me as I was driving. I think it maybe in a two hour drive. So I'm just reflecting, man. And this is pre cell phone, so it's not like you're gonna get on the cell phone or talk to someone release. This is all yourself in your mind. You're thinking about it. And so so I get home and you know, talk my wife. Of course, she's hurt. The news, it's big news. And and we talk and we do do some praying together, and and I immediately begin to think about getting back on the field. I wanted to get back on the field. I didn't want my career to end that way, especially when you're that young and have had the success that I was having. I think it's crazy. I did not know you put up those numbers so and all, and this is part of it. When I was injured, I was in the final year of my contract. Oh man, I was like, yeah, get it exactly right, you know the thought man. And so when that injury came, I was like, man, h, but I think the Bears organization, the mccaskey's uh and Missus hallis who you're very from me with Missus McCaskey, they were so good to me. H post career, you know, even when I got back home. Like I was telling the story when I was inducted into the Black College Hall of Fame, George McCaskey flew down after leaving uh Missus Hunt's funeral in Kansas City, flew to Atlanta the same day to be at that ceremony. Oh, I didn't know. And I told this story man about his parents. When I was going through my rehab, His mom and dad called me and my wife up, took us out to dinner just to talk, just to hang out. I mean, how many owners do that, you know, not many, because you know, I'm in I'm in the dumps, being injured, and you know, can't be on the field, and they just wanted to cheer, cheer me and my wife up. So I'm forever grateful to that family, and and and and for what they meant to me doing that period of my life. Uh. But that injury definitely changed the trajectory of my life, of my career, my life as well, because in my mind, I was going to go on and have a sustainable NFL career and then retire and go into whatever after that. But when things got cut short, now you got to fast forward. You know, I wanted to play. I wanted to get back on the field again. So that fall that when I got home in August, I got a letter in the mail from the president of a small school in the suburbs of Chicago and Deerfield, Trinity College. They were starting a football program from scratch.

Well, all those thoughts that you mentioned, you know, west next and all those things are going through your mind, and that's exactly what was happening to me as I was driving. I think it maybe in a two hour drive. So I'm just reflecting, man. And this is pre cell phone, so it's not like you're gonna get on the cell phone or talk to someone release. This is all yourself in your mind. You're thinking about it. And so so I get home and you know, talk my wife. Of course, she's hurt. The news, it's big news. And and we talk and we do do some praying together, and and I immediately begin to think about getting back on the field. I wanted to get back on the field. I didn't want my career to end that way, especially when you're that young and have had the success that I was having. I think it's crazy. I did not know you put up those numbers so and all, and this is part of it. When I was injured, I was in the final year of my contract. Oh man, I was like, yeah, get it exactly right, you know the thought man. And so when that injury came, I was like, man, h, but I think the Bears organization, the mccaskey's uh and Missus hallis who you're very from me with Missus McCaskey, they were so good to me. H post career, you know, even when I got back home. Like I was telling the story when I was inducted into the Black College Hall of Fame, George McCaskey flew down after leaving uh Missus Hunt's funeral in Kansas City, flew to Atlanta the same day to be at that ceremony. Oh, I didn't know. And I told this story man about his parents. When I was going through my rehab, His mom and dad called me and my wife up, took us out to dinner just to talk, just to hang out. I mean, how many owners do that, you know, not many, because you know, I'm in I'm in the dumps, being injured, and you know, can't be on the field, and they just wanted to cheer, cheer me and my wife up. So I'm forever grateful to that family, and and and and for what they meant to me doing that period of my life. Uh. But that injury definitely changed the trajectory of my life, of my career, my life as well, because in my mind, I was going to go on and have a sustainable NFL career and then retire and go into whatever after that. But when things got cut short, now you got to fast forward. You know, I wanted to play. I wanted to get back on the field again. So that fall that when I got home in August, I got a letter in the mail from the president of a small school in the suburbs of Chicago and Deerfield, Trinity College. They were starting a football program from scratch.

So because I'm glad you bring this up, because I had to know when I was I'm like, hold on, it's Nai School and it's I didn't know exactly where it was.

So because I'm glad you bring this up, because I had to know when I was I'm like, hold on, it's Nai School and it's I didn't know exactly where it was.

I looked it up but didn't show me the direction the time.

I looked it up but didn't show me the direction the time.

But Trinity International, And I'm like, how does he go from playing to like the head coach? He was an assistant. His first job as coaching was the head coach. What was that like going to like, no, I'm at the top of the food chain running a program and going from player where it's like I can still show you guys how to do it a little bit because I'm young and fresh, But I really don't know what I'm all the way doing.

But Trinity International, And I'm like, how does he go from playing to like the head coach? He was an assistant. His first job as coaching was the head coach. What was that like going to like, no, I'm at the top of the food chain running a program and going from player where it's like I can still show you guys how to do it a little bit because I'm young and fresh, But I really don't know what I'm all the way doing.

Oh yeah, that that you're You're right on about that. I shouldn't know what I was doing learning on the run. Yeah I wonder, oh yeah, But but for me, it wasn't an aspiration to to be a coach. That wasn't something I desired, you know, I'd look at coach Dicker, I look at but around our decordinated to look at my coaches, and I go like, man, this is a thankless job. Those guys spend all these hours over here, and you know, all they talk about is us, But they're the ones putting this plan together.

Oh yeah, that that you're You're right on about that. I shouldn't know what I was doing learning on the run. Yeah I wonder, oh yeah, But but for me, it wasn't an aspiration to to be a coach. That wasn't something I desired, you know, I'd look at coach Dicker, I look at but around our decordinated to look at my coaches, and I go like, man, this is a thankless job. Those guys spend all these hours over here, and you know, all they talk about is us, But they're the ones putting this plan together.

We're going out and executing, and they all seem mad all the time. Yeah, it didn't seem happy at all. Yeah, there's no life. So that was not in my mind to be a coach. And so what I did was, you know, I just I started exploring, just trying to figure out what I was going to do, and I went and visited some different businesses. I had got my degree in business administration and went to visit some different companies in Chicago just to see if that's something I might want to do. At the same time, I was still working on my knee, still trying to get my range of motion, and my agent got through to Seattle and Seattle wanted to bring me out to test my need and give me a physical. So I flew to Seattle in the month of I think it was January. So we go from August. In between that time. That president at Trinity International University it was Trinity College at the time. He had not given up on trying to get me to become interested in coaching, and so he continued to call me, write me, have other people that he knew that knew me call me. And my wife said to me one day, she said, what would it hurt just to go over there and just listen to what he has to say?

We're going out and executing, and they all seem mad all the time. Yeah, it didn't seem happy at all. Yeah, there's no life. So that was not in my mind to be a coach. And so what I did was, you know, I just I started exploring, just trying to figure out what I was going to do, and I went and visited some different businesses. I had got my degree in business administration and went to visit some different companies in Chicago just to see if that's something I might want to do. At the same time, I was still working on my knee, still trying to get my range of motion, and my agent got through to Seattle and Seattle wanted to bring me out to test my need and give me a physical. So I flew to Seattle in the month of I think it was January. So we go from August. In between that time. That president at Trinity International University it was Trinity College at the time. He had not given up on trying to get me to become interested in coaching, and so he continued to call me, write me, have other people that he knew that knew me call me. And my wife said to me one day, she said, what would it hurt just to go over there and just listen to what he has to say?

What would that hurt? And I said, okay, I'll do that. I'll just go and hear what he has to say. And so he described the job and what he wanted to get accomplished by starting football at Trinity, and he thought I was the perfect person forward and I was like, man, coaching, I don't know. And so I recommended a friend of mine who was coaching at Purdue Universe at the time. I played linebacker forth and I thought he'd be great for the job. And the president said to me, no, you're the right guy for the job. Now. This is in November, and I was like, I don't know. And I got to go home and think about it. But all the things he said to me they made sense, and in my mind, I was like, if my career was going to end, the w looked like it might end. I felt like, you know, God would have something that was unique for me to do. And this was unique because you know, I'm twenty six years of age, a black man at a predominant white school. They're asking me to be the head coach, to start the program, with no previous experience of the playing. I said, this is unique. But I still wasn't ready to say yes me. So I still wanted to play. In my heart, I wanted to play, and so I kept working on my knee. And then I flew out to Seattle in January and I passed the medical. But in my mind, I knew I didn't have my range, you know, even though I passed that medical and they told me that they were going to come back. I bring me back and do the backpedal drills, the plan to drive, all the things you do as a dB. That would be the next step. Well, I get on the plane. I'm flying back to Chicago, and on that plane, I'm just wrestling with what the President had talked to me about about Trinity. I'm wrestling with going back to Seattle. And I said, you know, if I go back and turn this opportunity down, will I miss you know what what I'm being called to do. That that's what was going through my mind. So we land, The plane lands and I get off the plane, go to a pay phone. I call my wife up and I tell her that I think I'm going to take this job at Trinity, and she was she was good with it. So I call my agent up. I tell him. He was not good with it. He was like, what are you doing. I think the GM at the time was a guy named Mike McCartney McCormick. They have this all set up for you. They're expecting you to come back there and work out. And I said, I think this is what I need to do. And he was going, what's the name of the school? Why would you be interested in doing this? Why would you? And so I knew he wasn't going to understand. It was clear that he wasn't going to understand. And I said, you know, I'll just talk to you later. And I called the president up and I told him I was going to take the job, and that March of nineteen eighty eight started the journey, and you know, brings me to where I am today.

What would that hurt? And I said, okay, I'll do that. I'll just go and hear what he has to say. And so he described the job and what he wanted to get accomplished by starting football at Trinity, and he thought I was the perfect person forward and I was like, man, coaching, I don't know. And so I recommended a friend of mine who was coaching at Purdue Universe at the time. I played linebacker forth and I thought he'd be great for the job. And the president said to me, no, you're the right guy for the job. Now. This is in November, and I was like, I don't know. And I got to go home and think about it. But all the things he said to me they made sense, and in my mind, I was like, if my career was going to end, the w looked like it might end. I felt like, you know, God would have something that was unique for me to do. And this was unique because you know, I'm twenty six years of age, a black man at a predominant white school. They're asking me to be the head coach, to start the program, with no previous experience of the playing. I said, this is unique. But I still wasn't ready to say yes me. So I still wanted to play. In my heart, I wanted to play, and so I kept working on my knee. And then I flew out to Seattle in January and I passed the medical. But in my mind, I knew I didn't have my range, you know, even though I passed that medical and they told me that they were going to come back. I bring me back and do the backpedal drills, the plan to drive, all the things you do as a dB. That would be the next step. Well, I get on the plane. I'm flying back to Chicago, and on that plane, I'm just wrestling with what the President had talked to me about about Trinity. I'm wrestling with going back to Seattle. And I said, you know, if I go back and turn this opportunity down, will I miss you know what what I'm being called to do. That that's what was going through my mind. So we land, The plane lands and I get off the plane, go to a pay phone. I call my wife up and I tell her that I think I'm going to take this job at Trinity, and she was she was good with it. So I call my agent up. I tell him. He was not good with it. He was like, what are you doing. I think the GM at the time was a guy named Mike McCartney McCormick. They have this all set up for you. They're expecting you to come back there and work out. And I said, I think this is what I need to do. And he was going, what's the name of the school? Why would you be interested in doing this? Why would you? And so I knew he wasn't going to understand. It was clear that he wasn't going to understand. And I said, you know, I'll just talk to you later. And I called the president up and I told him I was going to take the job, and that March of nineteen eighty eight started the journey, and you know, brings me to where I am today.

So I think I love that story. I also want to know, is it more of the fact do you think looking back on it when you're on that plane right back from Seattle. Was it like, Okay, do I really truly am I ready to accept that I might not be ready to play football? Was it the fear of being told you know what you're you think you're good, you passed the physical, but you're not where you used to be. Is it that fear our own ego as former players, because we know what it takes, like, we know what it's like when we're at the highest level. We've seen ourselves. We're our own worst critic. Was it that fear or was it truly like, you know what, I think, this is just the opportunity, and God tell me I need.

So I think I love that story. I also want to know, is it more of the fact do you think looking back on it when you're on that plane right back from Seattle. Was it like, Okay, do I really truly am I ready to accept that I might not be ready to play football? Was it the fear of being told you know what you're you think you're good, you passed the physical, but you're not where you used to be. Is it that fear our own ego as former players, because we know what it takes, like, we know what it's like when we're at the highest level. We've seen ourselves. We're our own worst critic. Was it that fear or was it truly like, you know what, I think, this is just the opportunity, and God tell me I need.

To do this. That's pretty much what it came down to, because I if I had gotten my range in my own mind, I probably would have taken that Seattle route. But I knew when I was doing my workouts, I couldn't like burst, you know, I couldn't get the person you gotta you gotta know you man, you.

To do this. That's pretty much what it came down to, because I if I had gotten my range in my own mind, I probably would have taken that Seattle route. But I knew when I was doing my workouts, I couldn't like burst, you know, I couldn't get the person you gotta you gotta know you man, you.

Got the Merriman said yes today, Yes, the same same exact thing, Like I just didn't have.

Got the Merriman said yes today, Yes, the same same exact thing, Like I just didn't have.

That first step like that burst, like I felt it right and you.

That first step like that burst, like I felt it right and you.

Know yourself, you know, yeah, even though the medical Yeah, I was fine physically, I knew in my heart.

Know yourself, you know, yeah, even though the medical Yeah, I was fine physically, I knew in my heart.

So I said, if I if I walk away from this, I really feel like walking away from what God has called me to do. To your point, and uh, and it's probably one of the maybe the best decision ever made in my life to to go ahead and accept that that opportunity and now I was. It was challenging for sure, starting the program from scratch with no previous experience and all that, but UH learned a lot on the fly. Oh man. It was a great experience for me nine years, you know, being the head coach there and early on, you know, we were the homecoming team for everybody, and uh, you know, we got that turnaround and won some conference championships, had a guy to get drafted to the forty nine ers there. It is, so it was, you know, we were just very very blessed there. And you know, before I left, I mean they named the field after me. So it was. It was tremendous. Man and the president, doctor Ken Mayer, was outstanding and he was my biggest proponent. Uh, was in my corner throughout and just you know, helped me navigate those waters. And what I did was I called as many of my own coaches as I could and just ask questions, you know, how do you do this? How do you do that? And some things they had never had to do that I was doing. I mean we had to to get money to build a weight room and all those things. You know, you're a fundraiser, you're a head coach. Uh, you're out there line the fields. You know, you're hiring the staff. I mean all these things and everything. You're doing everything, everything scratching, You've never done it before. So but it was good for me because it's helped me throughout my coaching career some of those things I went through at Trinity, UH to be able to see things from a different perspective. Now, it's different when you start off as the head coach. And so when I got my first job as an assistant to someone else, that was a challenge because I was so used to right, what what was I wanted to know what was that? Like?

So I said, if I if I walk away from this, I really feel like walking away from what God has called me to do. To your point, and uh, and it's probably one of the maybe the best decision ever made in my life to to go ahead and accept that that opportunity and now I was. It was challenging for sure, starting the program from scratch with no previous experience and all that, but UH learned a lot on the fly. Oh man. It was a great experience for me nine years, you know, being the head coach there and early on, you know, we were the homecoming team for everybody, and uh, you know, we got that turnaround and won some conference championships, had a guy to get drafted to the forty nine ers there. It is, so it was, you know, we were just very very blessed there. And you know, before I left, I mean they named the field after me. So it was. It was tremendous. Man and the president, doctor Ken Mayer, was outstanding and he was my biggest proponent. Uh, was in my corner throughout and just you know, helped me navigate those waters. And what I did was I called as many of my own coaches as I could and just ask questions, you know, how do you do this? How do you do that? And some things they had never had to do that I was doing. I mean we had to to get money to build a weight room and all those things. You know, you're a fundraiser, you're a head coach. Uh, you're out there line the fields. You know, you're hiring the staff. I mean all these things and everything. You're doing everything, everything scratching, You've never done it before. So but it was good for me because it's helped me throughout my coaching career some of those things I went through at Trinity, UH to be able to see things from a different perspective. Now, it's different when you start off as the head coach. And so when I got my first job as an assistant to someone else, that was a challenge because I was so used to right, what what was I wanted to know what was that? Like?

I mean, the first time you're working under somebody else, And how did the coaches dynamic I think is always crazy. Saw it in Carolina all the time because Sean McDermott naturally is a defensive back coach, but he's a defensive coordinator and Steve Wilkes is his defensive back room. So it's like this dynamic is always and it's like, I mean, I know it's your defense, but like this is my room. So how does that dynamic always have to play out? In learning how to be a good teammate As a coach.

I mean, the first time you're working under somebody else, And how did the coaches dynamic I think is always crazy. Saw it in Carolina all the time because Sean McDermott naturally is a defensive back coach, but he's a defensive coordinator and Steve Wilkes is his defensive back room. So it's like this dynamic is always and it's like, I mean, I know it's your defense, but like this is my room. So how does that dynamic always have to play out? In learning how to be a good teammate As a coach.

I had to learn that. I had to learn what servant leadership was. Yeah, and that's a great urn. Yeah. So I was looking for that. So when I went to the University of Illinois with Ron Turner who was the head coach, who was a former Chicago Bear coach as well, and he asked me to come down and be the defensive back coach. And it's it's a story behind that as well. I was just I was thirty nine years old at you know, being at Trinity for that period of time when when when I started at Trinity, I didn't know if it would be lifelong, could have been, could have been. Uh. But I got to a point where I said, if I don't leave now, I don't know if I'll ever leave. Because I had gotten really confident that we had built the program up, we were a good program. Now on one of the better teams and n I uh at football after winning some conference championship, being ranked as high as third in the nation. We've done some good things. And but in my heart, I was like, I think there's more. I think there's more I can do. And and so when Ron called, I said, I'm gonna give it a shot. And I and as long as my wife was, was good with it, because I knew once I left Trinity, because I mean, that could be a job you can stay for the rest of life once you leave there and get on this this this this wheel, it's a journey now. And I knew that from experience, just just seeing friends of mine who were in coaching, and she was good with it. Uh So I told Ron will come down. And so when that first staff meet him and that I'm not running, I'm sitting there listening and watching. That was just awkward. You know, for me, it was just just an awkward feeling. But I learned to accept my role and to support the head coach. That was what was most important, because that's what I needed when I was in that chair, and you know, I needed to have that attitude and and and and be that that servant leader in that role. And I've always thought about that all throughout my times when I've been an assistant, the importance of being a good assistant coach and really helping that head coach to be the best that he can possibly be.

I had to learn that. I had to learn what servant leadership was. Yeah, and that's a great urn. Yeah. So I was looking for that. So when I went to the University of Illinois with Ron Turner who was the head coach, who was a former Chicago Bear coach as well, and he asked me to come down and be the defensive back coach. And it's it's a story behind that as well. I was just I was thirty nine years old at you know, being at Trinity for that period of time when when when I started at Trinity, I didn't know if it would be lifelong, could have been, could have been. Uh. But I got to a point where I said, if I don't leave now, I don't know if I'll ever leave. Because I had gotten really confident that we had built the program up, we were a good program. Now on one of the better teams and n I uh at football after winning some conference championship, being ranked as high as third in the nation. We've done some good things. And but in my heart, I was like, I think there's more. I think there's more I can do. And and so when Ron called, I said, I'm gonna give it a shot. And I and as long as my wife was, was good with it, because I knew once I left Trinity, because I mean, that could be a job you can stay for the rest of life once you leave there and get on this this this this wheel, it's a journey now. And I knew that from experience, just just seeing friends of mine who were in coaching, and she was good with it. Uh So I told Ron will come down. And so when that first staff meet him and that I'm not running, I'm sitting there listening and watching. That was just awkward. You know, for me, it was just just an awkward feeling. But I learned to accept my role and to support the head coach. That was what was most important, because that's what I needed when I was in that chair, and you know, I needed to have that attitude and and and and be that that servant leader in that role. And I've always thought about that all throughout my times when I've been an assistant, the importance of being a good assistant coach and really helping that head coach to be the best that he can possibly be.

Yeah, so, how has it been. This is your first offseason not coaching. I went to a game last year and I saw Rob mary Nelly, one of the great defensive minds in the game, great defensive defensive line coach, and I went up to one of the suites and the play is going, and he is literally he's looking, you know, he's looking at the play. No, okay, okay, and then he coach ain't come back, and he watched it like he watched the entire game like he was still he was in he was in the booth, he was but he was in the suite.

Yeah, so, how has it been. This is your first offseason not coaching. I went to a game last year and I saw Rob mary Nelly, one of the great defensive minds in the game, great defensive defensive line coach, and I went up to one of the suites and the play is going, and he is literally he's looking, you know, he's looking at the play. No, okay, okay, and then he coach ain't come back, and he watched it like he watched the entire game like he was still he was in he was in the booth, he was but he was in the suite.

He was in.

He was in.

Coach Coach Eberfle was the sweet but he watched the play would go and he leaned down, he leaned for and put his hands on his knees. Okay, and they huddle up. Oh they're back okay, And I just I was just like, how you doing it? He was like, oh, still stressing. I've been still stressing. He has no skin in the game. But he was like, it's just it's tough, and it's my first time that I'm not coaching, and he goes on, I don't know, I don't know, but it's I gotta give it. I just gotta give it time. It'll get better. But like he when I say, he was like locked in. Even in the booth, he was like dialed all the way in. So, how has it been for you? Well, we haven't gotten there yet, but how do you think it'll be for you? Being you know, you haven't coached. This is the first time you haven't coached in a really long.

Coach Coach Eberfle was the sweet but he watched the play would go and he leaned down, he leaned for and put his hands on his knees. Okay, and they huddle up. Oh they're back okay, And I just I was just like, how you doing it? He was like, oh, still stressing. I've been still stressing. He has no skin in the game. But he was like, it's just it's tough, and it's my first time that I'm not coaching, and he goes on, I don't know, I don't know, but it's I gotta give it. I just gotta give it time. It'll get better. But like he when I say, he was like locked in. Even in the booth, he was like dialed all the way in. So, how has it been for you? Well, we haven't gotten there yet, but how do you think it'll be for you? Being you know, you haven't coached. This is the first time you haven't coached in a really long.

Time, really long time, forty years, so you're playing and coaching, So I'm sure it's going to be challenging. Probably similar to Rod. I hope quite that extent, but I'm sure it's going to be similar. What has helped me is, you know, some of the things we're doing here at the NFL Network, you know, going out to training camps, doing the show in the studio, we could go with the preseason. That takes my mind to a different place, so I see the game from a different perspective, and that's helped me. If I were just sitting around and trying to keep up with what's going on in the league. I'm sure I'd be like Rod, I'd be pulling my hair out, going crazy, you know. But I'm able to look at the game a little bit differently right now. Now the regular season may be different, you know, we haven't gotten there yet, but for now I can distion to myself a little bit. You know, you do have friends you want to pull forward in the league, but just a different perspective when you are on this side, yeah, versus being right in it.

Time, really long time, forty years, so you're playing and coaching, So I'm sure it's going to be challenging. Probably similar to Rod. I hope quite that extent, but I'm sure it's going to be similar. What has helped me is, you know, some of the things we're doing here at the NFL Network, you know, going out to training camps, doing the show in the studio, we could go with the preseason. That takes my mind to a different place, so I see the game from a different perspective, and that's helped me. If I were just sitting around and trying to keep up with what's going on in the league. I'm sure I'd be like Rod, I'd be pulling my hair out, going crazy, you know. But I'm able to look at the game a little bit differently right now. Now the regular season may be different, you know, we haven't gotten there yet, but for now I can distion to myself a little bit. You know, you do have friends you want to pull forward in the league, but just a different perspective when you are on this side, yeah, versus being right in it.

So what's been the biggest adjustment being on this side in the media now though, being being an analyst, What's what's been the biggest adjustment for you?

So what's been the biggest adjustment being on this side in the media now though, being being an analyst, What's what's been the biggest adjustment for you?

Probably the biggest thing is when we're preparing for a team or or teams and coaching, you're locked in on that opponent, as you guys know, you spend so many hours man on just getting to know that opponent for sure, Whereas in the broadcast business, you've got to know the league, you know. You guys know rosters from this team to that team, you know, So it's totally different in that way. You don't lock in on that opponent and get to know them like you know yourself almost right. And so that's that's probably been the biggest adjustment, just getting to know the entire league because at any moment, you could be talking about Cleveland today, you're talking about Detroit tomorrow, or within the same conversation. So learning those different rosters and being able to communicate what you know.

Probably the biggest thing is when we're preparing for a team or or teams and coaching, you're locked in on that opponent, as you guys know, you spend so many hours man on just getting to know that opponent for sure, Whereas in the broadcast business, you've got to know the league, you know. You guys know rosters from this team to that team, you know, So it's totally different in that way. You don't lock in on that opponent and get to know them like you know yourself almost right. And so that's that's probably been the biggest adjustment, just getting to know the entire league because at any moment, you could be talking about Cleveland today, you're talking about Detroit tomorrow, or within the same conversation. So learning those different rosters and being able to communicate what you know.

So a couple of years ago, I was at a basketball game and it happened to be it was a Jordan tournament, and so it was all the Jordan teams in college and basketball, and North Carolina was there and the former coach Roy Williams, who's been there for forever. He literally was like your guy, Rod Marinelli. He was He's on there and I'm s by his wife. We're right there, and he's just like, he's like coaching, but he's not coaching.

So a couple of years ago, I was at a basketball game and it happened to be it was a Jordan tournament, and so it was all the Jordan teams in college and basketball, and North Carolina was there and the former coach Roy Williams, who's been there for forever. He literally was like your guy, Rod Marinelli. He was He's on there and I'm s by his wife. We're right there, and he's just like, he's like coaching, but he's not coaching.

Retired.

Retired.

Yeah, but in his mind he can't turn it off. How hard has it been, because you you probably never turned off. You see things you're like, oh, and you're constantly coaching. How does it? How is like, how do you guys ever turn it off? It's almost in your DNA at this point, you've been doing it since you were twenty six years old. Yeah, and so you don't know any any better. How is that manageable? And is your wife just used to it and you just just ignores it that like when you're watching a game at home you're not on the sidelines, Like, how do you handle those moments? Because those are the moments when nobody's watching, right, And I know you can't help yourself the most.

Yeah, but in his mind he can't turn it off. How hard has it been, because you you probably never turned off. You see things you're like, oh, and you're constantly coaching. How does it? How is like, how do you guys ever turn it off? It's almost in your DNA at this point, you've been doing it since you were twenty six years old. Yeah, and so you don't know any any better. How is that manageable? And is your wife just used to it and you just just ignores it that like when you're watching a game at home you're not on the sidelines, Like, how do you handle those moments? Because those are the moments when nobody's watching, right, And I know you can't help yourself the most.

You're exactly right. It's just it's hard to turn it off. Yeah, because I don't think you can turn them. I don't think any coach will turned off. Yeah. I don't think my dad was a coach. I don't think they turned it off at all. You saw it.

You're exactly right. It's just it's hard to turn it off. Yeah, because I don't think you can turn them. I don't think any coach will turned off. Yeah. I don't think my dad was a coach. I don't think they turned it off at all. You saw it.

Yeah, he's the same right now, all me and he's like, I'm like, all right, you know, he's telling me about on side kicks, like how.

Yeah, he's the same right now, all me and he's like, I'm like, all right, you know, he's telling me about on side kicks, like how.

To block it up?

To block it up?

All right, Dad, He's just he's just turn it off. Somebody gave up when he said, it's just what you're supposed to do and drawing it up on a paper. I want to know how you guys, as coaches, how do you ever get to that?

All right, Dad, He's just he's just turn it off. Somebody gave up when he said, it's just what you're supposed to do and drawing it up on a paper. I want to know how you guys, as coaches, how do you ever get to that?

I don't or do you never get to it? Yeah? I don't. I'm still in the early stages. But the guys I've talked to. They're more like your dad, more like you know, want to talk fall all the time and see things in a ball game, call you up and talk about them, and that's okay. Uh, you know, everybody has their different ways. I think it's important to find a hobby though. I'm my son who is a scott with the Ravens. He's been he's been encouraging me to get in the golf or something something to give you a deflection from football. So I'm going to find that. I'm going to find a hobby and and and try to do that and not just be so uh single minded like I was when I was coaching. Otherwise, Man, how do you enjoy your your time away? You know you look at the time, you're so stressed. I don't want to be like that, right.

I don't or do you never get to it? Yeah? I don't. I'm still in the early stages. But the guys I've talked to. They're more like your dad, more like you know, want to talk fall all the time and see things in a ball game, call you up and talk about them, and that's okay. Uh, you know, everybody has their different ways. I think it's important to find a hobby though. I'm my son who is a scott with the Ravens. He's been he's been encouraging me to get in the golf or something something to give you a deflection from football. So I'm going to find that. I'm going to find a hobby and and and try to do that and not just be so uh single minded like I was when I was coaching. Otherwise, Man, how do you enjoy your your time away? You know you look at the time, you're so stressed. I don't want to be like that, right.

You've talked about it, because you still you'd like to be a head coach.

You've talked about it, because you still you'd like to be a head coach.

You give at some point I would, now, you know, you hope that would happen. I'm taking a different route, you know, stepping away. I have and uh, but I really felt in my mind roaming that this was if it was going to happen, this was the way it would happen. Things weren't working, no matter how much success we had in Buffalo to get in front of people and talk to him about jobs. So I said, you know, I'm getting to a point in my career where you know that the sand is running out of the hour glass, and UH, if I'm going to do this, this is the time to do it. And made a decision. And so I'm hoping that that an owner when this is all over with, when the season's old with, UH, I'll be able to get in front of an ownership group and and talk to him about some opportunities. Yeah.

You give at some point I would, now, you know, you hope that would happen. I'm taking a different route, you know, stepping away. I have and uh, but I really felt in my mind roaming that this was if it was going to happen, this was the way it would happen. Things weren't working, no matter how much success we had in Buffalo to get in front of people and talk to him about jobs. So I said, you know, I'm getting to a point in my career where you know that the sand is running out of the hour glass, and UH, if I'm going to do this, this is the time to do it. And made a decision. And so I'm hoping that that an owner when this is all over with, when the season's old with, UH, I'll be able to get in front of an ownership group and and talk to him about some opportunities. Yeah.

So what coach McCarthy stepped away for you, sh and Peyton, they stepped away four year Sean did a little bit of broadcast kind of the media, and UH was able to talk to the Broncos ownership.

So what coach McCarthy stepped away for you, sh and Peyton, they stepped away four year Sean did a little bit of broadcast kind of the media, and UH was able to talk to the Broncos ownership.

And landing them a gig a year later. So yeah, man, I.

And landing them a gig a year later. So yeah, man, I.

I salute you, and I hope that that we we speak that in existence and into fruition. And I'm rooting for you. I'd love to come to your new team and whatever team it is, and come talk to him about turnovers, because I know what kind of a.

I salute you, and I hope that that we we speak that in existence and into fruition. And I'm rooting for you. I'd love to come to your new team and whatever team it is, and come talk to him about turnovers, because I know what kind of a.

Whole all the way around and come back like, man, look at that it's me. It is not me. I wish the.

Whole all the way around and come back like, man, look at that it's me. It is not me. I wish the.

One thing I'm really sad about that was, like I wish you know, I played for Lovey Smith, another great defensive mind, but I wish we would have been able to like you could have been our decordinator, DV coach or just something with with our defense because we had some man, we had a good squad and we have some great coaches, and I knew you would have only blessed us even more with your defensive mind and what.

One thing I'm really sad about that was, like I wish you know, I played for Lovey Smith, another great defensive mind, but I wish we would have been able to like you could have been our decordinator, DV coach or just something with with our defense because we had some man, we had a good squad and we have some great coaches, and I knew you would have only blessed us even more with your defensive mind and what.

You got the rod.

You got the rod.

And like I just I wish I could have been a part or you could have been. We could have linked up at some point in time and been a part of a dev like it just would have been. I thought I was a good player. I couldn't been even a.

And like I just I wish I could have been a part or you could have been. We could have linked up at some point in time and been a part of a dev like it just would have been. I thought I was a good player. I couldn't been even a.

Better player, you know what I'm saying.

Better player, you know what I'm saying.

Like I just I wish we could have just man, I wish I could have been blessed for you to.

Like I just I wish we could have just man, I wish I could have been blessed for you to.

Be a part of what we was with. Well, we don't know how this thing's gonna end, but I will be calling both of you when the time comes, and we will utilize your talents on a different way. I love that we're gonna take a short break and we'll be right back. You know, let me. I just got a ball question.

Be a part of what we was with. Well, we don't know how this thing's gonna end, but I will be calling both of you when the time comes, and we will utilize your talents on a different way. I love that we're gonna take a short break and we'll be right back. You know, let me. I just got a ball question.

It is what is so, coach, this is what I've heard about Leslie Fraser's defense and not this is my first time Actagan to.

It is what is so, coach, this is what I've heard about Leslie Fraser's defense and not this is my first time Actagan to.

Talk to you.

Talk to you.

I gotta ask, and so I always want to know when you guys did a lot of stacks or trip a bunch for ormations. I had guys that came from your system and they said, Coach, Leslie Fraser doesn't let us like in and out it he wants him. No, this is your guy, you go with it. And he didn't let him in and out. I'm like, it's so much easier just to do that in and out.

I gotta ask, and so I always want to know when you guys did a lot of stacks or trip a bunch for ormations. I had guys that came from your system and they said, Coach, Leslie Fraser doesn't let us like in and out it he wants him. No, this is your guy, you go with it. And he didn't let him in and out. I'm like, it's so much easier just to do that in and out.

No banjos.

No banjos.

It was like a huge because I'm a banjo guy.

It was like a huge because I'm a banjo guy.

Love.

Love.

I'm a banjo guy. Love it to death, all right. He's like no, and banjo means like me and you. So he if me and him are working together, me and Peanut and we're placing two guys, the first one goes out, I got him because I'm out, and you got the next one. If not, we're gonna lock it and my guy goes wherever he goes. I got him, and you got your guy. Wherever he goes. We're not banjo, we're not working together. We're independent contractors. But when we banjo everybody together, it just to me, it just seems easier. It's flowy, it just goes. Could you expl Yes, this was the one big time Like why does any do that?

I'm a banjo guy. Love it to death, all right. He's like no, and banjo means like me and you. So he if me and him are working together, me and Peanut and we're placing two guys, the first one goes out, I got him because I'm out, and you got the next one. If not, we're gonna lock it and my guy goes wherever he goes. I got him, and you got your guy. Wherever he goes. We're not banjo, we're not working together. We're independent contractors. But when we banjo everybody together, it just to me, it just seems easier. It's flowy, it just goes. Could you expl Yes, this was the one big time Like why does any do that?

They're like, I don't know.

They're like, I don't know.

It's just coach Fraser, I've evolved that part of it. If and I heard that too, if Buffalo you evolved to that.

It's just coach Fraser, I've evolved that part of it. If and I heard that too, if Buffalo you evolved to that.

If you if you get a tight stack, yes, it's just easier to be in and out. Yes, however way you want to call it. So, but one thing that happens sometimes is when you are as you guys know, when you're banjoin it, when you're playing it out or whatever you call it. We both got see it the same. Oh man, hey, hey hey, praise Like what we do? What do we do? Time we lock it? Yeah, community miscommunication, it's over lock. I got my man, You got your man, makes it clean. That's exactly when get executed. Minute you mess up, right, that's such a coach, I mean, was your man? What was that he spoke? He's spoken? You know these are dbs right here, this is you know what you guys I believe would be the same way. Man, if you see them out there struggling with the communication, you're gonna say, how can I simplify it right place? At the end of the day, think I don't want us to beat ourselves. I agree, you know, if you better than me, hey, congratulations, But for us to be making minial mistakes or busting stuff, No, you got no chance, you got no chants, you got no chance. In the back, we lost it. I like that. I like that. I like that's why I had to ask you. I had to.

If you if you get a tight stack, yes, it's just easier to be in and out. Yes, however way you want to call it. So, but one thing that happens sometimes is when you are as you guys know, when you're banjoin it, when you're playing it out or whatever you call it. We both got see it the same. Oh man, hey, hey hey, praise Like what we do? What do we do? Time we lock it? Yeah, community miscommunication, it's over lock. I got my man, You got your man, makes it clean. That's exactly when get executed. Minute you mess up, right, that's such a coach, I mean, was your man? What was that he spoke? He's spoken? You know these are dbs right here, this is you know what you guys I believe would be the same way. Man, if you see them out there struggling with the communication, you're gonna say, how can I simplify it right place? At the end of the day, think I don't want us to beat ourselves. I agree, you know, if you better than me, hey, congratulations, But for us to be making minial mistakes or busting stuff, No, you got no chance, you got no chants, you got no chance. In the back, we lost it. I like that. I like that. I like that's why I had to ask you. I had to.

We started going to the boss said all, this is what I've been hearing. All I gotta enough. I got it, and you're right. And I heard you evolved as you continue to progress. And this was like a big thing. And they said, like, he's like because he knows exactly who messed it up. If we lock it, then we know this.