Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Nate Tice to get you ready for NFL Draft season. Before a look at this year's NFL prospects, Gregg and Nate put a bow on Conference Championship Weekend with a break down of how Jayden Daniels played (02:40), the decisive 4th down play late in the Chiefs win over the Bills (10:32), and Josh Allen's play in the game (22:25). After the break, the show shifts to players entering the NFL Draft including the quarterbacks (30:00) and a deep tight end class (45:55).
Note: time codes approximate.
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're always watching what's happening in dou Baal. I'm Greg Rosenthal in my garage and really excited to be joined on this show by Nate Tice of Yahoo Sports. You can check him out at his great podcast Football three to oh one with our friends Charles McDonald and Matt Harmon doing an awesome job all season there. Good to have you back, Nate. I was thinking you actually were on our first week of shows, and I had so much respect for your time. I'm like, man, he is grinding over there. I feel bad asking you in season, and then I heard you a couple of times killing it on Bomani Jones's show, and I'm like, well, if he can do Bomani Jones's show, he can do this show.
So welcome back, Nate. I'm always available. Thank you. First off, I'm always available for you, Greg. You know you got to carry the g load around here because I'm zero percent g you know, so yeah, you know. So that's why this is a great pairing. Whenever I'm with you, No, but thank you again. Always have me.
Oh yeah, well we're starting to do the super Bowl bookings. I know you'll be down in New Orleans, and I mean it. Nate does a really good job recapping the league. He does a good job previewing games, just getting into the x's and o's, but also is a great draft mind. And that's why I wanted to talk today, just switch gears a little bit, do a little intro to this twenty twenty five draft, and talk a little bit about you know, the games on Sunday night. But first, when you say sixty percent G, I was thinking we're doing our bookings already for some of the Super Bowl appearances, and I think we're going to get Greg Olsen on, which I'm pretty excited about. But you know, I was thinking, like it, I don't know if he's going to struggle just confidence wise, being with someone that's sixty percent G when he's only fifty. It's like it's tough for the one G gregs to deal with sometimes.
Yeah, you're it's gra and G Regg.
That's right. Greg's got enough confidence. That's a great point, right.
Right, He's halfway there, but he was at least he has flow to make up for it. That helps it out out flow for days.
And since you mentioned it every so often, when the G reg clip pops up on Twitter. There's so many people that are like, I can't believe this ever happened, because there's still all the young kids out there. They don't even know. So if you don't know what we're referring to, I believe the sixth floor crew. Look it up, treat yourself, and get ready for that interview. I'm excited about it. During super Bowl week, okay, I have a theory Nate about like the championship games, okay, and about reality TV in the Super Bowl too. I love Top Chef, that's my favorite, but I would say it's true of other reality shows. You spend the whole season building up to this moment, and then there's like sixty seconds of after the moment you find out who actually won to talk about it, and I kind of feel like that happens with these big games too. I'm in such a hurry to just move on to the next thing. So I did think before we get to the draft today, you've spent today grinding some film. I've been watching some as well, and I thought, just a few final thoughts in this game, maybe especially about the teams that we're not going to be talking about during the Super Bowl as well, and you're such a good quarterback whisper, you know, just guy to listen to about I want, I'm curious about your thoughts rewatching and seeing Jade and Daniels on film, kind of isolating his play in this game specifically, and then just thinking about kind of what he needs, where he's going in year two.
Yeah, I would say just even this whole year, and what you saw yesterday is yeshay, was the first time I've seen Jane Daniels in a while take a I don't want to say bad sack, but a sack that went free gardage. Maybe that's the best way. And I want to say that as a compliment because one of the biggest hesitations I have with Jane Daniel's coming into the NFL. So he takes a lot of sacks, He scrambles a lot, He's not that big, and he's gonna take a lot of hits. I don't know how that holds up the fact that this season I can't recall how many big hits quote unquote that he's taken. Yes, he heard his ribs, but it was kind of a freak hit that he got on that one. But I wouldn't say that as a compliment that Jane and Daniels adapted to the NFL even more fluidly and better than I could ever expected. I knew he would be more pro ready and be a guy that could have to find some good answers, and I thought that's where I saw it again yesterday against Fangio. Fangio was giving him big Fangil defense Quarner for the Eagles was giving Jane Daniels a lot of like, hey, take this, We're gonna see if you can keep doing it. What do you do on the first drive? Kept doing it. He just kept taking the five yard gains, the seven yard gains, the six yard gains. What we saw yesterday was the limitations of this offense. They don't really generate a lot of explosive plays outside the goballs, there isn't a lot. You know, Terry caught the Yak touchdown, which is really nice Terry McLaurin. But this offense outside of those go balls, those haymakers we've seen throughout the year. The last time these two teams played, two teams played, Terry Cott won the Bengals game against the Bullets. Jane Dalels hits the one go ball in the end zone. Outside of that, not a lot of explosives. So what that puts a lot on the quarterback or quarterback is he has to be precise four yards five yards at a time. That's hard to do against a bunch of dudes. But as probably the best defense in the NFL at least top three, top five this year. And I thought so good with Jane Daniels was he took those answers. You saw him be accurate, so I'm not have a lot of negative plays. He doesn't really put the ball in harm's way. There was one deep ball early I did think he put ball in Harm's way, and then the end he had the interception, but the game was kind of out of hand then. But then he took a lot of the simple answers, which is good. That's what you want to do. I always want to see him maybe push over the middle a little bit. But again saw that yesterday, saw the dig throw. He had a Diamie Brown that was really nice. That's what I still want to see more of is more of those inbreaking throws. The thing is so far that hasn't limited his production limited his production or of just me maybe seeing that next step because he's an older quarterback and everything. But I'm watching him and I'm just like he was the better quarterback on the field I thought, even though just like overall, I really did, because I just don't think he makes a lot of mistakes, which is really good, on top of being explosive with his legs, which is really good as well. So I still want to see a little more as a thrower, maybe pushing the ball a little bit more, But as far as constant efficiency, I think he's just had a really good year and it's been a real, i would say, pleasant surprise, but the fact he's been able to do it consistently has been pretty remarkable but really fun to watch.
Yeah, you liked him. I followed your draft coverage last year, and you liked him, but you had him third, I believe behind me. Yeah, I knew that for sure. And the thing I was most impressed about in this game and throughout was just like he would make mistakes and he would not repeat the mistakes. I think he did some things in the pros, which makes sense. You're totally focused on at the coaching is better and you're surrounded by better players. Although his teammates were pretty good in college too, and he improved throughout the throughout the course of the season, and man, I do wonder like year two, I don't know if Cliff fell into bad habits because there was another version of that game where it's like, your defense doesn't have to be that bad, your running game outside of Jade Daniels doesn't have to be that bad, your teammates don't have to fumble four times. There's another version of that game where being a relatively efficient passer wins you that game twenty three to twenty and they don't really do much differently than they did. His teammates just play a different game. So he was kind of in a spot where I don't know if it was that was basically a no win scenario the way that played out, where you hadn't done anything wrong and it was fourteen to three through already losing the make the comeback, but I'm excited. Would you still take Drake May over Jade and Daniels, knowing every based on all the film we've seen this year, Oh yeah.
I still take May. May's numbers were really good this year. No one just noticed.
There's undoing, just noticed were could be talking about oh.
I know under so that's not just like an eye test, like oh, big arm, good athlete, all that stuff. It's like the underlying metrics were good for me this year too, which makes me even more like chest out about him. I guess uh No, I think May is still the prize of this draft, but I will say that Daniel and I'm still not out on Caleb either. I think Caleb did a lot of nice things this year. It's a tough situation. There are some concerns that maybe I was like, oh okay, that maybe I waved that away, that maybe I should have focused on a little more. But he got a great coach for him, I do think. But I think Daniels was closer than those two than maybe I gave him credit for. And I also want to say he's a little older, that's that's the one thing. He's played a lot of games, a lot of football. And then you can see that that's a compliment again, it's it's a double short. It's a compliment and kind of a you know, I don't say this, but kind of a negative where it's like, Okay, is there more for him to grow into or is this him the rest of his career, which isn't the worst thing in the world, you.
Know, is the answer to that, though it's not. It's not. Sometimes we get into this idea of like, Okay, he's played a lot, he hasn't played at the NFL level, He's still twenty four, Like we are seeing the best version I think of Jared Goff right now now in the end to see still play a little bit like Jared Goff, Yes, but I still think he's like the best version that he's ever been, And I would expect that to happen with Jane Daniels. But that's interesting that you stick with me. To me, the NFL tape should be more important than anything you've seen before. So I would certainly put him ahead of Caleb. Now I'm biased, though I would still take me ahead of him too, I'm like, but I would have moved I would move Jade in ahead because I've just seen enough at this level that some of the stuff you can't even see on tape are so obviously huge positives and are good indicators of a great career, like what he's done in that building that like you believe that he can improve all the on the field stuff in a way that like it's it's tough even for me to say May over Daniels now, but since you did it, you're giving me the the guts to this too.
Why I bring up the age thing is that is it five percent more growth from him ten percent or where I think? And again these are just odd you're betting on, you know, or is it May has more room because he was with the terrible coaches last year in North Carolina, hasn't been taught anything. Is there more to tap into here as opposed to Daniels. His last year was with Den Brock and Brian Kelly and the guys that have like really coached football. So that's kind of like the one why like a May or even a Caleb, it's like there's more to tap into here. But I think Daniens and Caleb are much more Though I thought there's a difference stream of most prospects, now they're obviously much more equal or Daniels I'm leading to, like you said, the NFL tap stuff.
I also wanted to talk a little bit about the Bills game. I was glad when I saw a number that helped confirm just my vibes that I talked about kind of on our recap show, which was the Bills felt lucky to be in that game that compared to some other games between them, certainly the twenty twenty one Divisional Round game. Like it's like, yes, I would have liked to see the Bills win, that's my bias. But I also was like, you know, the Chiefs had one of the highest success rates that they've had, like passing the ball in a game this year, they had a way higher success rate than the Bills. The Bills fell on six fumbles out of six. Josh was a little all over the place in a way that for Strung was part of how his season ended, which I felt like the season ended maybe weeks thirteen on really starting with that Lions game, which was a great high, and then onward it was it was a little up and down, and that performance was up and down. So I didn't feel like they I felt like the best team on Sunday one, which I always liked to feel as a as a fan. I did see you talk a little bit about that fourth down and you're former quarterback and the condensed formation and spags, you know, throwing the blitz at him and wondering what Josh should have done, And I thought something was interesting today that came out from you know, one of the offensive linemen who spoke to Tyler Dunn for his sub stack, where you know, he said, they've been showing that look to them all game and they kept not coming and they basically saved that for that moment. Basically they save to actually go and that's why the protection slid a certain way and why it ultimately hit so much. What was kind of your view in terms of how Josh Allen handled that, handled that and then the offensive line and everything else in that play.
It's kind of funny is that one of the biggest areas of growth for Josh Allen has been the mental side and obviously the accuracy and all that, but like he's really been. He's one of the best quarterbacks pre staff right now, which I think would maybe surprise some people. But he handles as much as the guys that we consider the sheriffs and everything, Like he changes protections, he changes like who else Dak the Borrow, I guess would be up there. That's usually the guys that you can well. Burrow probably gets the most praise for it, and he does do it. That's why he's great. But Dak is another one. But I say, Josh is up there, Mahomes is up there. Of course Mahomes calls freaking Mahomes is calling the fronts out as he's doing the cadence, which is so absurd to me. But that's what he's bored during the regular season. He wants new challenges, you could tell Mahomes does. So. Yeah, I know we're talking about Alan and stuff, but those guys are remarkable. Lamar has gotten so much better at it too. But no, those guys are really good. But anyways, that last play, it was interesting to me and hearing that that, I think it was a science turrets that said that that they were showing. They didn't they showed that look with then bring the blitz and then Spags puts heat on making you do the hard thing on the last play of the game or the big the high variance plays of the games. If you remember last year's Super Bowl, the one where Trent McDuffie puts off the off the slot, that was another one where it kind of hadn't shown it. What happens in a lot of those gutta have it situations is you know off its coordinators get a little cute. You know, there was a five man protection with Khalil Shakir in the backfield. Okay, they know he's not past protecting. And then last year in that Super Bowl, George Kittle's in the backfield, they sent a kind of a it wasn't that exotic, but fairly exotic blitz. George Kittle is a great blocker, He's not a running back that could trained and pass protection. And it's not just the physical side, it's the mental side to pick up what's going on there. He just doesn't have the training. So like Spags would on that last play, the Bills offensive line sliding left because that's what they've gotten the whole time, and on it they should be sliding right. But if they slid right on it and just kind of like too long, didn't read version is the little leap of faith. It's really going like a you know, if we do this and we're wrong, we're guaranteeing that Chris Jones might be unblocked, or the defensive end that ended up dropping might be unblocked. But if we're right, we wad this up and we have all the time in the world, and.
Everyone's going to kill them if Chris Jones is unblocked and the biggest play of the game.
Correct. But that's what Spags makes you heare and I bet you Josh Allen and the Senator McGovern have done that look before and have adjusted it. And I actually know they have because I have a clip against Todd Bowles that I tweeted out from this year. I believe where he is sliding the protection into that type of blitz to a corner blitz. It's just that once fourth down on the road, gotta have it. Am I going to do the five oh one level thing? Or am I gonna just do one on one? Snap the ball and out, I'm gonna play. And that's what That's what Spags does. He dares you to do it. And Alan, who is so mentally sharp now, and the offensive line, they were just dead in the water because even if they did slide it right, say four guys, which is probably what they would have done, the corner McDuffie would have been free anyways, just because of a number count. If they got the perfect answer, which is sliding all five, which you can't do. That is again a such an exotic answer. To an exotic question that it's like, that's the advanced level test, that's the PhD level and the biggest play of the year. So it's just that's what they do. That's the stresses of those blitzeres. And on top of it, the play before they ran cover zero and they try to throw a screen against it, which actually was a good call. Mary Cooper becomes a little bit of a body catcher when he's stressed, so he caught it, takes a second, slit slips a little, and then George Carloffin's mad a nice play and retraced on it. But what I get with Joe Brady and the Bills were trying to do. Bills were trying to do trying to get everybody out knowing that it might be a blitz. You either want to get everybody out, all five guys and have five guys protecting, or you want all seven in and then then we really block it up. But then if you got all seven in the day, don't blitz. You're wasting blockers. So again, this is the conundrum of specs, and that's that's why he puts you know, makes offenses look foolish like this or have makes breakdowns turn into giant discussions about everything in awful announcing articles written about your path. Oh my gosh, oh man, that is I get why. I guess that's a hard answer what he was trying to say, But holy crap, what's everyone doing? Why do you coming at him?
Yeah? I think it's just it's such a complicated sport. It's why I fell in love with the sport really when I started to cover it, like I loved it. But you know, it takes a few years to realize how little you know. And I'm always amazed by there are people that cover it their whole lives. They still don't realize how little they know. At least I feel like, at least I realize how little I know. And you're talking about this five oz one level stuff, and I find it all fascinating. And the sport works at every single level you can you can simplify it, and you can't also simplify it. To the fact that they have Steve Spagnolo, who is a one of the best defensive play of callers literally of all time. That to me, now, the resume he is putting up is getting up there with Belichick and one of the reasons he's getting to that level is because he sort of has the luxury. It's not his choice, but it's the luxury. That's all he's doing. He doesn't have to worry about running the team while calling the plays and the resume he is putting up year after year. The Rams talked about the weight bearing walls of Cooper Cup and Aaron Donald and everything. It's like the chiefs weight bearing walls include Steve Spagnolo. It's it's either three guys or four guys. It's mahomes read in Spagnolo, or it's mahomes read Spagnolo. And I'll throw in Chris Jones just because the resume that he's put up at over this longest stretches just incredible. And so you can understand all of that, and uh, then a guy like our friend Ben, you know, makes a reasonable point on it, and but someone sees a little bit of a little bit of weakness that and uh, they attack because no one wants to be told that they don't understand the game, and they don'tant especially by someone that's like my size or Ben size.
And works at it. He actually like knows ball. That's what's Oh yes, I just I just want to say some of the guys, it's like, hey, keep the same energy when some of your former NFL p a right. Actually the point how much guys swear this spout out some bolt then and that don't even do the work, like, you know, I keep that same energy for that, you know. That's what I just want to say.
That that's it right there, because Ben understands it on a deeper level than I do. And obviously not as a deeper level as like NFL coaches and in players in all that stuff, but you and I know in the media, like the half the ex players are barely paying attention and don't really know all that much anyways, and a lot of them know it at a level that I can't possibly fathom. But there's a spectrum, and some of the people with the biggest you know, outlets and regular jobs like are following at the least, so you don't need to go too crazy with respect.
And yeah, yeah, it's just like every field, it's a spectrum. Like some are actually those geniuses, they're incredible and do all that. And I'll say this about it's not every player. A lot of these players though, and I'm not saying the ones of the media, but a lot of players aren't. Like I turn on the game, I watch play one to play sixty, and I watch every single play through on film on All twenty two. I had a coach make me a seven play cut up. I had a coach make me a twelve play cut up. I had my coach make me a five play cut up. That's what that was, quote unquote film watching for a lot of the guys, not everybody quarterbacks. Obviously, it did a lot. But you know, some guys, yes, they watch every play, they're chunky about it, but some, you know, they just watched some cutups, and some to even watch that. So it's kind of funny for me to like really put their chest down and yelled about it. So but no, Chris Jones, I loved your you quote tweeted me about I think he had a crazy he had seven pressures in the first half, and I think you said he's probably put up the resumes, maybe the best playoff defender of all time or something that's sort I don't want to I.
Think it was like this. I think I said this century yeah, just like and it was more like the total resume. How we measure. Tom Brady was ultimately about the longevity of it all, Like obviously Hearon Donald is another level, or even Lawrence Tate, Like they're a different level, I would say than Chris Jones. But because he's always in the playoffs, like the resume he has put up now and the amount of playoff appearances and how many games he's literally changed the outcome of I don't know, I don't know who else would be there over the last twenty five years. I don't think anyone.
It's like him. Like twenty fifteen, von Miller was a hot, a hot year and this year that's what I mean. But that's what I mean, one single season.
He'll get a couple of games every year like this done to high Tower, had a ton of moments like he would be my Patriots straight Ty Law was incredible for a couple of playoffs, but.
Not Troy Brown when he played Nickel for you guys, that was a one of them. I'm a Mariano Rivera, that's another playoff playoff.
Perform says what this is now? What six straight you know playoffs?
Seven six years? Yeah, changing von Mellwer had the rams here too, so he's another one Aaron Donald, of course, just because he's Aaron Donald. But that that's I I because I was a great I loved you tweeted that and actually I meant to talk about it on our pod because I wanted it, but I always go along if you guys can't tell. And I started kind of really just thinking on it, and I was like, man, I think that's the answer though, because I was trying to think of someone in the early yachts and I just couldn't. No one kind of came to mind. And maybe it was just because I wasn't focused on Patriots defense as much and they're you know, Eagles defenders, maybe Ronde Barber, you know, like it's you know, for the box, like but that was only a couple in the early yachts.
You know, that's it's you even think about. Like like last year was like his pressure kind of did the game in the AFC playoffs.
Really pushed Dawkins back right right.
There's so many where it's just like you can if you really look into it, he completely changed the game. I went longer on this part of the show than I expected, but that's just what we do. You did perk up for a second, and I'm going to leave this Bills section with this, and I'm sorry to our producer Eric, who's a diehard Bills fan here, but I rewatching it. It did strike me that the end of allen season was a little weird. He had more turnover worth he plays. According to PFF, in this game, I counted up than the last ten weeks combined, which is not what you want. And you go back to his season. Actually, if you think about I'm trying to go through the games, like there was the Patriots game, which was a really weird game. The first time around, he did not play well in that game. They almost lost that game. Then he bounced back, he played well against the Jets to end the regular season, and he comes in plays well, you know, against the Broncos, and then last week like he was barely there in a way that it wasn't his fault, but also like didn't happen all season, and I was just like, what is going on here? Like Josh Allen was such such a small part of this game, and then this game was a little weird. So it's just like a little bit of an up and down after after what had been an incredible possibly MVP season just ended on.
A weird note. I mean, shoot to was it early December when he had those games against the Rams and the Lions. It was like, oh my god, like this is this is We're not going to see this. This is He wrapped the MVP up right there. But it felt like in these playoff games, at least last week and this week, it almost was like we're watching Allen from a few years ago. Out early Allen where it was like his biggest highlights or his best plays were the big arm throws and him as a runner, you know, except for the QB sneaks and that, Yeah that was incredible. Uh yeah, like props to the Chiefs defense. But anyway, but I think that's where he almost evolved into that. That first drive was worried something. If I were watching it, Like, I know, Alan can be streaky early, he kind of always settles in. He's a guy that needs a lot of quarterbacks are like this, or not a lot, but a chunk more than you would think. They need to get hit once and then they kind of just go okay, I'm good, like all right, I got kind of I need to I got. It was a little a little wild there all right now, you kind of get slapped a little bit, and he's kind of like that. And I could tell he was kind of a little juiced up early, which kind of reminds me more old Allen. But the thing is is allan of this year and really of last year or two, because I think this year was a continuation of it has turned into such an all everything quarterback. Now let's say the big arm plays and throwing far and the crazy plays out of pocket where he's one yard from the sideline, But like his instructure stuff and his accuracy that first month of the season was tremendous until they ran into the Ravens, I think, and then the Texans game is really wonky. But his ment I already talked about the mental sign of the blitz side that's very real. And then also just the act she stuff that work from the pocket, like he deserves to be up there. I consider one of the elite guys. It's just that sometimes in these moments he kind of devolves into his I don't want to say less herself, but more of his ID, you know, like he yeah, you know, he listens to his ID. I guess I do you even listen to your id, but I guess it.
Works sometimes too. He has the touchdown drive to tie up the AFC Championship game when he absolutely has to have it in part because of that it and he made it. He made a ton of plays. I'm not trying to say he played, oh, because he made a ton of plays. I mean he's making it happen with Matt Collins and and you're right, the team, the teammates make a big deal Rewatching that Amari Cooper play hurt me today because I was thinking, like, oh, man, like Shakir makes that first down, I think, right there on that screen, he makes the guy miss and it's too.
Bad Collins with a What a beautiful dunk? Though, that was pretty awesome.
Trusting Matt Collins in a big spot pays off. It gets truff We're gonna take a quick break, we're gonna come back, and we're going to talk about the draft before we do that, though, I do not want to forget to talk about a show that's coming up next Monday. Nate, you're not gonna be able to make it. I don't think you're in Las Vegas, but it's in Los Angeles. It's hosted by our friend Mina chimes all the proceeds to it are going to fire relief. Thankfully, we got a ton of rain over the last twenty four hours in Los Angeles, which just like never have I've been so excited to just see rainfall. First of all, it's been like eight months, which is crazy, or ten months, I don't know last time was. But there's a lot of recovering that still needs to happen here in Los Angeles, and every ticket sold to this benefit is going directly to fire disaster relief. And so Mina's hosting it, but I will be there. Jordan rod Rieg of The Athletic and of NFL Daily, and I heed the call. She will be there, some other hosts from the Ringer, the guys that do the watch who are great. I think she'll have some other special guests that she's working at. It's at the Belasco Theater. It's in Los Angeles. I try not to ask our listeners for much, but if you're in the LA area and you think you like the show, please come out again. It's downtown. It's really cool. They got a beautiful theater. So I'm going to be mentioning it all week and we will have Mina on the show tomorrow. Actually, we're going to go over all the coaching hires and everything that's been going on there, and we'll talk about the benefit a little bit. Yes, I wanted to mention that before we take a break, we'll come back. We'll talk a little bit about the Senior Bowl and the NFL Draft back on NFL Daily And yeah, Nate, you mentioned the shotty shots. We could spend a while on that, Yeah, but instead we're going to break down all the press conferences. There was four on Monday. We're going to break that down on our next show. But Brian Schottenheimer Liam Cohen with with a very awkward moment. The reference I started the show with, let's.
Listen, Jacksonville, the community do all, how do we do this together?
I was watching that and I'm thinking, like, that's the biting kneecaps moment of this coaching cycle. Just the facial it was something about the eyes. There was something about As I watched it, though I felt better. I mean, it's just it's just a press conference. It's awkward. He might have felt a little defensive because of everything that that happened there. And by the end I was like this, this is a good.
Mean he said, she said he's sick, She's sick. Thing that we going on most.
It was a lot going on, but yes, we'll hit all the coaching stuff on Wednesday show. Are you excited though about the Schottenheimer era? Quickly?
Sure, it's a big shrug, which I think is just what I think everybody's reaction to it. I don't know, man, people, I try to ask him a question. He started talking about Barry Switzer and it was just like, oh, oh boy, oh boy. Strap in the Lilliam Cohen thing reminds me of Brett Bielman went to Arkansas. He was my coach at Wisconsin and they did the Wu Pig suie and you could tell he thought he just had to do it once, and they did it like three or four times, and you could tell he's like, we're doing it again. We're doing it again. So that's what that reminds me.
All it was like you got prepped by the pr guy, but right before it started to say it and it was the first time doing it and it didn't quite track. But good luck. I want to see good quarterback talent play well. And we'll get into that more on the next show, but I think Liam Cohen is a good one for Trevor Lawrence. Let's stock quarterbacks to start about this twenty t twenty five draft. I preface this by telling our listeners I'm a basic when it comes to the draft. I'm excited that we have this daily format, and I don't do a lot of draft stuff until now because I'm just in it. I don't have the brain power that Nate Tyst does to do a big board. In the middle of October, I went and found and all, yeah, and you're on four point zero of your mock draft, so you're you're grinding through these guys. I am excited to go to school and kind of hopefully the listeners will be on this journey with me as we kind of learn about this draft class in particular, and this is really the start of it. So I just thought it'd be fun to have one of my favorite draft minds out there, Nate you on because it's Senior Bowl week and we don't have to be too locked into everything that's going to happen at Senior Bowl Week. We're also gonna talk about at the end of the week how it went down. But when you look at this class overall, like not as much sizzle maybe up top because of the quarterbacks, but still an intriguing class. Like how would you evaluate like the overall class, like in terms of top shelf town oh to and like where it's strongest that.
Okay, overall with the quarterbacks, I'll start there, not not not a great quarterback class overall with at the top and depth, I would say cam Ward is my number one guy, and then you know, Shadar Sanders right now is two, but it's not I don't have a true true first round grade on him. It's more of like a you know, it's that next tier where I would maybe slot him in, but then after that it's kind of I mean, even with Shuder and cam Ward is kind of dealer's choice. It's your flavor that you like. I'm I'm bullish on a guy Riley Leonard from Notre Dame. I like a lot of his traits. But the thing is that's bullish in the sense of like third round, not like, oh, sneak into the first. There's guys like Jalen Milroe from Alabama, who's a good athlete measured in today at the Senior Bowl with very small hands a picket sized, which is always concerning, but very good athlete really improved this year. I mean the Neckler size or the eight eight and a half or eight and three quarters eight and three course Eighten.
Love, I love that you had like an actual answer for that. Just Tom Brady hit Austin Eckler with the small hands when he fumbled on Sundays. I don't know if you check out. I got that in the broadcast. I was like, damn Tom, that was tough. Uh at the bottle jig spot and you got Tom Brady talking about your small hands, Okay. Jalen Mill wrote, Yeah, he's at the Senior Bowl and the rest of the rest of the.
Class of the Cress. It's just kind of you know again, it's flavors. Jackson Dart from Ole miss has got some hype right now. He's also at the Senior Bowl. I look at him as an early Day three guy right now. Maybe you have to die back in, but it's a lot of those. It's a lot of early Day three types. That's like, oh, I can maybe see him in the third as opposed to sneaking him up in the first. To me, cam Ward is the one only one I trust from Miami is the only one I would like feel okay taking in the top fifteen, and I'm sure he might even go top five. But other than that, like outside quarterback, it's a really good running back class, really really good at the top and depth wise. Every round, every type, big guys, small guys. Ashon Genty from Boise State, it's going to get the most hype. He's incredible, Heisman finalist. I have a top ten grade on him, and I feel good about it. If he can go anywhere in the first round, I totally get it. Then you got shoot it's going from there. You got from Caleb Johnson from Iowa. You have the o Higo State running backs, tre David Harr's or Trevion Henderson, who's a really fun guy. I think you're gonna really like him because he's really good in pass protection. He's really fast, like he's like a pro.
Yes, I mean like Mike Mike Scoutings is watching the NFL, you know, National Championship being like, oh wow, these guys, okay, they really are they really are going high because they kind of look like the guy exactly would go high. Oh yeah, sorry, at least for now, No, it's good at the quarterbacks because Milroe and Dart are at the Sooner Bowl, and so so's Riley Leonard. I know you liked Riley Leonard a lot at Duke. Maybe he had like a bit of a disappointing year. Milroe seems like he's so physically talented that some team's gonna love him, right, Yeah, but huge, You, for instance, were huge on Anthony richards and I know they're completely different quarterbacks, but they both had elite traits and our special runners, or at least you can tell me. Maybe Milroe is not a special runner if you don't think so, but it has special speed.
Certainly, he's a very good athlete. You can you can fly, He's an excellent athlete. Yeah. The Richardson comparisons keep coming in, but Richardson still has these three inches tall or thirty pounds heavier and probably runs the same forty and has a better more lie, I think he's better. I know what this is crazy to say. Richardson's feel in the pocket and everything is way better than Milroe. Even though Milroe has improved and everything this year, Richardson always had that. That's why I was always so bullish on him still am.
Yeah, and he's very young. And I was kind of kind to ask you about that because maybe that's why you thought it made sense with the traits that Richardson could go that high because I was with you. He was so good at avoiding sacks, so good I feel in the pocket, and even going through his reads sometimes like, is Milroe a guy you think in this in the lead up to the draft could do enough that he kind of gets in that mix because from the outside, not knowing enough, he just seems like that guy that's like, Okay, you guys can tell me that he's not a first round pick now, but he's the guy that usually by the end of the process gets pushed up pretty high. And do you think he he should?
Basically I don't think he should, but I think he will. I think his best case is like a justin fields, you know, like that's more how I picture him than Anthony Richardson. Not really saying the top quarterbacks right now, but that's kind of how I picture him more of. And so to me, he's more of a day to dart throw than a guy I would bump up even in the first round. And I know people want to make the contract stuff and everything. As soon as you put the first round great or one dash twenty four next to a quarterback, he's on the field, you know, So I'd much rather take that Dart throw on Day two, I would say the the Bama coaches got I mean, they were whoever took that job after save and was gonna be underheat no matter what. I thought. They did a really good job of streamlined thing, stream aligning things for Milroe in the sense of like, all right, one to go, one go, And I thought he there's the old coaching adage, if you make a mistake, make it fast. I think Milroe was doing that much better this year. I wanted him to stay another year or figure it out how to do it. But he's entering the draft, so we'll see.
Yeah, and he'll be in Mobile, so he'll get a lot of attention. Yep, this week. Jackson Dart's a guy who you know, played in a wonky offense a little bit at Ole miss bombs away that people that are fans of teams that need quarterbacks this offseason and are just annoyed that they weren't in the draft last year, you know, and they're looking at this free agent class, and I'm just like adding up the teams and there's just not many good options possibly out there. I think Matthew Stafford's probably the bell of the ball because I think there's going to be a sense that he's available and we'll see. But then there's Darnold and it's a it's rusts and fields. After that, it's it's it's pretty slim pickings, and it's slim pickings in the draft. And yet there's only there's about seven teams that are going to be looking at quarterbacks in the draft. And so man, some of those fan bases are out there, they're talking themselves into like Jackson Dart could be our dude, what do you think, like what are his pluses and minuses? And if there's like a quarterback maybe that that is there and mobile that you think might have like a week there to keep an eye on.
Yeah, with Dart, it's he has tools, he has trades. He put up production as a runner and thrower. The thing with that Lane Kiff and offensive Ole Miss, it's a money play offense. And so it's like I watched Matt Carral just do the exact same thing a couple of years ago. I feel like I'm having the conversation all over again. But the with with him with Dart is that I don't know his feeling. I've never gotten there with his feel for the playing the position. I think he does throw a nice ball, and I do think he can make some nice plays. It always just a hairs late to me, like you know, okay, there's it's open, Okay, now there's the throw, as opposed to anticipating the throw. I've also just seen endgame situations where he's not even making the right read and maybe it's like stress stresses him out, which scares me with a guy, especially if you're saying first round, he might have a week, this might this is the perfect type of week. He also has to show that he can grasp a win kiff and as a quote unquote NFL offense. But it's more about terminology. But like as far as the depth of the playbook is probably not there at Old Miss, and I maybe want to see him like how quickly he grasps his stuff, how quickly he can do one to two to three as opposed to like it's a lot of one and done. Because Mike keff It goes this MF is gonna be wide open. You better throw it, you know, as opposed to like, okay, you got to progress through this. So I have hesitations with him. I see him getting a lot of hype too. But again, like I you guys, stick to what the grade is, not like oh there's somebody who's got to rise up. It's like no, no, no. If you have a bunch of third fourth round grades, that means they're third fourth rounders. Doesn't mean they have to get bumped up just because they're QB three or QB four by default. So he's one. I'm kind of always teppering. And I would say, again, Leonard is the guy that maybe has a good week, but I think he's banged up after that college football playoff he waited.
It was like a week ago. It is crazy that.
He weighed two ten today, so he's probably worn down. I think he's like two twenty five normally, so.
Brutal to go. I mean immediately from the National Championship into the Senior Bowl, into the entire draft process into your NFL season. It already seems kind of like a brutal process. But uh, for him and Will how you know, who knows will who is also there? Who? Who do you think the highest drafted player there is in Mobile potentially some options? Shamar Stewart is there? Who?
Yeah, an edge.
Player, armand Mambou. I believed from Missouri. I couldn't believe. I've been following it enough that I was surprised when my my friend of me, Daniel Jeremiah put him eleventh in his mock draft. So that's that's a tackle from Missouri that maybe is rising late.
Charles had him in our first round and people got mad at us, and all of a sudden, DJ bumps him up the top eleven and everyone's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I gotta check him out. That's okay. I am going to the Chiefs at like thirty or whatever it was that week, and everyone freaked the f out on us.
It shows you're onto something and this happens. Like Jeremiah, he doesn't. He doesn't throw that in there in a vacuum because it's a mock. It's not his top it's not his top fifty. He hasn't released that yet. It's him talking to the rest of the league and being like, Hey, this is gonna make me look smart in April because this dude is going to be the dude and I and I kind of showed that I knew my stuff so exactly.
It No, there's there's there's so much some real good offensive lineman there. Josh Connolly from Oregon and boo, you just brought up and why am I there's another tackle that might be a guard and for some reason I don't have it written down right now in front of me. Oh and then they got Jonah Slavinia from Arizona, who's a guard that might sneak into the first round. A Wyatt Milliam from uh he's a tackle from West Virginia. I think he's a guard. But it's actually pretty it's an interesting offensive line class. Like there is offense line depth, it's just not those there's no freaky tackles like I really like Will Campbell from Elsi. He's not at the Senior Bowl, but people are like, oh, he's a guard. I think he can stick out the tackle. But it's a lot of actually want the Patriots to draft him, by the way, but I think the the this offensive line class in the tackles, it's a lot of like is he a guarter? Is he a tackle? Is he good enough? He's a good athlete. Is he strong enough? Oh, he's strong enough. There's a lot of just tweeter types. That's like, this guy's a starter. I just don't know which position he's starting at and if he's like a Pro Bowl starter or just a solid starter. But I think it's just it's a really gonna be a big time either beholder offensive line class, and I think someone people are gonna hit, like people are going to find some Pro bowlers in this class. I really do think that like late like late first, early second types. But he's just got to be the right fit for all these guys.
But maybe not one to be looking desperately for a tackle at number four overall just because it's so deep. Maybe you can go to a different position there. I will I will be sad if Travis Hunter is like as exciting in the pros as he is, that they that they won that stupid game against the Bills backups because they were if they were one and overall, would you if you had the first overall pick and you were let's say, like the Patriots, you didn't need a quarterback but can basically use someone anywhere else where, would you go?
Well, first off, I would try to convince everybody that cam Ward's the greatest quarterback they've ever seen in their life.
Yeah.
First, yeah, I would go man because this is really hard to because it's not I would go off into line because I just do. I would go Trenches. That's my first answer. And to me, it's like, all right, as Dual Carter is it Will Campbell and Carter I think is a better player. I don't think he's as generation. People are thrown out generational with him. It's like, come my, guys, chill, but he's a very good prospect. And I think it's like, do the Patriots need that?
Do they forget? Even forget even Patriots think of it as a as a generic team because yes, the new GM makes the comment that they don't want to pass on a generational talent at one kind of indicating I'm not kidding, Hey, we're not going to just take a quarterback just just to take it, and everyone is like, he must mean Travis Hunter, and then everyone else is like, no, actually he means Abdull Carter, the interior rusher.
Yeah, I'm always Trenches first, So I would put I have Travis Hunter as one on my board. So that's what's hard. That's what's hard too. He if you're going best player, we do not care the position. It's truly bp A. I would say Travis Hunter. But if I admit, where do you play him?
What does he do?
Corner? He's a corner, and I think he's a but he's a special corner, like he has top you know, all Pro first team every year type up side. He's not that big too, like size wise. That's the only thing about playing both ways in the NFL I'm a little scared about. I think he's a corner full time and a receiver four that you play for eight to twelve plays a game, and I just think that's what they try to use my Colorado. He is so raw as a receiver. I feel like you only knows a quarter of the playbook, which I understand. Playing both sides is really hard full time physically and mentally. I think it only gets harder in the NFL. So you keep that package real small and then keep the let them just be dominant a corner. I thought of the guard by ways, Marcus Minbau from Purdue, who I like as well. That's the other guys.
Sorry, And then like when Carter.
Is the if I'm if I'm going trenches is Abdual Carter, you know. So it's like, okay from Penn State.
So like, where else do you think like the draft is is weak and and most strong? Because because I cut you off, you said the running backs deep throughout great at the top wide receiver doesn't seem like it's as flashy a class as the last few. It's okay, where where do you think the class is at its best?
Tight End is the other position running back and tight ends where my eyes go. And then defensive line, defensive tackle, and edge, you know, like those are probably the three top spots, like starting on offense, like Marge brought some of the running backs, but tight end wise, I see at least two going in the first round and like that, and I wouldn't be shocked if maybe another guy sneaks in there. But like Tower Warren from Penn State is a freak, it could looks like a three down Why that's also explosive. I've seen Kittle comparisons. That's pretty extreme to me. But it's it's not like like totally out of the park, you know, like you know, out of whack to like compare Kittle to that, which is that that's but that's the high high, high end upside. I think DJ had him in the top ten.
DJ had him going seventh, which I was like, is that the is that the brock Bawers effect, not that he's brock Bowers or even you know, the same player. But it's funny because you look at last year's draft and all that, you know, supposedly the Rams want to trade up for brock Power. Everyone wanted brock Bowers. It was kind of like Mahomes back in the day after the fact that everyone, although I think it was credible, they really did want brock Powers. And you look at it and the Raiders kind of settled for him because they didn't get a quarterback and thought, wow, that's high for a tight end. And now you think, like, no, that's not too high for a tight end anyone. That's a difference maker. It's the same thing as the Jamiir Gibbs argument, except it maybe even more valuable position. And so you could see Tyler Warren, especially in this class, going higher.
It's it's my well, Warren two is a true in line. Why like he winds up all over his wildcat quarterbacks sometimes, but he can play in line. Dowers is a slot receiver slash tight end, while Warren is truly a tight end, you know, And I think that's a difference as well. And this is a big philosophy I have with team building. That's why I even said it's I would go trenches first. I'm always big about how many plays you impact. And that's why I'm always a lit offensive line first, the edges first, before I get to receivers and corners and everything. Is because I think they like, if you're drafting a guard, oh man guard really, oh, he's on the field every single play and he's going to have something to do that like, it impacts the play eighty percent of the time, you know, seventy five percent of time. While if I draft a receiver in the top ten and we're a bad team, four plays that, you know, twelve plays tops, you know, like that that they truly can impact it early, you know, maybe they learn other things that can help out their craft. So that's why I got like Warren in this type of draft class that doesn't have a ton of blue chippers. It's kind of more it's it's gonna be a big kind of eye of the beholder type draft. Just take them, you know, like it's BPA. He can play, he can stay on the field because he can block for forty plus snaps. And that's why I think it's like, all right, well, that's a difference tight end than a guy that might be receiving, only you know, a guy that's only out there for twenty five snaps or has to be hidden in the run game, Like those things really matter.
Well or even more than a wide receiver. I present to you the Rob Gronkowski era Patriots. Not that you're gonna find Gronk probably in the draft, but you have a hard time telling me that there were many wide receivers more valuable on a down to down basis changing what the defenses had to do that than him, and that that's obviously the jury.
He's another one. Afterwards, everybody wanted Gronk. Everybody. Oh, at least three coaches I've heard over the years now, even a conversation I've been a part of, have gone, well, he was my one. When we did our draft grades, there was one guy we had to go for each position that was the gold guy, and Gronk. We were trying to come up with a different grade because he was better than gold and was like, well, why didn't you draft him? Then?
Back injuries? Also, he was mono syllabic, like I was there at his combined press conference. I never go to the players ones anymore. I don't stay that deep into the week. We actually haven't gone in a while, but I am going this year and I hope to see you there, Nate, and I'm excited for that. But I was there for Gronk's press conference and it was funny. I mean, he could barely, he could barely speaking of us. You're like, what is happening here? And they're just like, yeah, this guy at the back surgeries, But man, is he talented and good pick.
I'm sad he was curious that he used from my jersey and PA and he went to Arizona. It was just you know, and if he probably asked him, he probably had a great official visit. So it's like warm, Who's warm?
That's why I went to Tulane. Last player I'm going to ask you about is someone you you wrote about that you liked a lot, and just his profile and what I've seen from him gets me excited. Do you think Jalen Walker goes maybe a little higher in this draft because of the Zach Bond impact. Is there any is there any Zach Bond similarities just in terms of maybe what he could do at the next level and is everyone going to be looking for their own Zach Bond. I feel like off ball linebackers are back to being cool again. Running We're going back to the eighties. Like off ball linebackers and running, We're back.
I love this. We just need more full cage face masks. Maybe some microals it would be good.
No.
I I love Jillan Walker. I think he's actually probably one of my favorite players in the whole draft class. I put him in my top ten in mid mid season. Even before the season, I had him in my top twenty, and I was just kind of like, you know, all this guy does is make plays. And George is so annoying to watch, like as far as an evaluator, because they rotate their guys so much. They run like five hundred different fronts and it's just showing off. So they can go to coaching clinics and just go like, look at this play that we ran twice the entire year, like, you know, like they just love doing that. And so watching Walker, it's kind of like, all right, are you an edge? Are you off ball? Are you doing? I just want him in my front seven, and I think I'm glad you brob Zach Bond. That's a that's a great comparison. I mean, there's a whole bunch of these guys right now, vander Esh you know, you know, for the Vikings, what other Wisconsin badger's kind named Leo Chanel? Uh, you know, just name a badger. But all these guys, Andrew van Gankl not late in vander Ash, my bad avg they all look the same, you know, yeah, right three three yeah, my bad there. But no, these guys, I think that's more of a we see a defensive lineman where it's like, oh, this guy's an offensive outside linebacker, but when we go to Nickel, they're a defensive end, which now we just call edge. And I think that the Bond thing. What you see is, oh, this guy's got past past rushing ability, so let's use him on simulated So let's use him on blitzes creepers. And you're just okay, we're still only rushing for but the guy that's got pass rushing. Chops is now rushing the passer against a guard and then now we're dropping one of those outside line But we see the Rams do this all the time, dropping one of those outside linebackers into coverage and you're just inverting the roles. So when you get a guy like Bond who actually has some coverage, Shops is good against the run, he's just it's kind of one of these guys. It's like, Oh, this is what you should have been the whole time. When they do come on these creepers and simulates and Blitzer, there's still a weapon everything. So I really like him With the Cardinals, that's been kind of my like, ooh, I like you there. But really, I mean, any creative defense that you can picture, I would like Walker on it. But again, like I said, when this type of draft class without true blue Chippers, he to me is a blue chipper. It's just I don't know what position he's at, so you know, but I just think he's one of the best players, a top ten player, so I think he should go high.
Yeah. I always, you know, get a little worried about those those type of guys. Isaiah Simmons, right, and uh, the Cardinals. The Cardinals wouldn't know what to do with them. That your funky favorite tape Grinder's coaching staff, the Arizona Cardinals, they came through for you. Both you and Jordan were pretty excited about them coming into the season, and I know, well we're there. I mean, it wasn't It was up and down. But I think if you look at it the total view ultimately that they took a nice step forward for you.
Yeah, they did. It's you know, now I got I gotta study Kyler too. Kyler has becomes one of the most in you know, kind of an enigma as far as studying wise, because it's just like he's one game he looks I'm like, oh wow, Like, no wonder you were an MVP candidate that year and in some games it's like, oh man, what are you doing? Man? Like, So I maybe year three with this coaching staff's gonna be like another lead for which I'm excited about.
I'm looking forward to it. I am looking forward to the build up to the draft, the whole process. We got free agency coming up really the end of the conference championships. Even though I'm really excited for the Super Bowl, I'm excited to go to New Orleans in next week's going to be all about that. We're gonna have lots of great guests. I do feel like today, as we're taping this, it almost feels like the first day of the off season, because there's like there's literally one more game and they're they're doing. There's a whole as Ian Rappaport said on Twitter, there's a whole parallel NFL that is going on right now in Mobile and they have moved on to twenty twenty five. We're coming up on the week where Matthew Stafford and Kirk Cousins are both like quietly talking to other teams, and then next week is the week that they actually join those teams. So it is coming around the corner and we're going to be covering it all on NFL Daily. You stepped up in a big way twice this year. You did it Football three oh one. You got your own show, you were on NFL Network on Good Morning Football, here and there, You're on Bomani Jones's show, all of it. You're writing a lot, you're a draft expert. I really recommend everyone go check out Football three oh one and subscribe. I'm always really impressed Nate when you guys, you guys do a kind of an abbreviated recap show and you'll cover like a big game and you do it in like four minutes and then you just move on to the next game. I'm like, Wow, you can do that. That's amazing.
Good jobs. Why it's my own lack of hosting ability.
No, it's really not.
If you make a mistake, make it fast, just dould just.
Get through it very well said it's like really key points and you'll move on. And so you you've killed it, and I'll continue to check it out and I'll continue to bug you during the whole draft process. That's it for today's show. Thank you, Nate. Play the music. Like I said, we will be back. It's a big show. It'll come out early Wednesday morning. We got Mina Chimes, we got Jordan Rodrieg, we got Colleen Wolf. We're going to go through all the coaching hirings and the coordinators, a lot of weird stuff, the press conferences and yes, when we're talking senior ball, you know football is back. We'll see you Wednesday