Explicit

The Palin Interviews, 10 Years Later: Part Two

Published Oct 4, 2018, 7:00 AM

In the second and final chapter of their documentary series, Katie and Brian explore what happened after the Palin interviews aired: from the struggles of the McCain campaign to Sarah Palin’s decision to start “going rogue.” Plus, they explore how Palin helped usher in a new brand of American politics— and President Donald Trump.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Oh, we knew we were in difficult circumstances and we were going to have to do something big. To my ever lasting regret, I said, what about Sarah Palin? We tend to prefer candidates who don't talk about us one way in Scratton and another way in San Francisco. Today on the podcast, we're bringing you the second episode of our two parts special on the Sarah Palin Interviews I did ten years ago this month on the CBS Evening News. In the first episode, we heard the behind the scenes story of how Paling got selected and three sheets to the wind On vikeed in and I stared at her and I think, I think, who is this? You know she's beautiful, but who is this? And um Biden ran over and he said, who's Sarah Palin? Then we got the backstage view of palin celebrated speech at the two thousand and eight Republican National Convention. I was in the box with the big donors. I was in the back room with John McCain and they were mesmerized by her. A couple of minutes and he's like, she's she's she's sucking great, right, Sarah Palin breathed new life into the McCain campaign. But then it was time to answer some real questions from the press. Why isn't it better Governor Palin to spend seven hundred billion dollars helping middle class families who are struggling with healthcare, housing, gas, and groceries. Ultimately, what the bail out does is help those who are concerned about the healthcare reform that is needed to help shore up our economy, helping the it's got to be all about job creation to shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So this interview was famous at the time and got a lot of play, but a lot of the behind the scenes stories we heard in part one we're really fascinating and new to us. That's right. A lot of advisers said they were telling us things for the very first time. And by the way, if you haven't heard the first part of this two part series, now is a good time to hit pause and give that episode a listen and then come back. In this episode, we'll take a look at what came after my interviews with Sarah Palin, the struggles of the McCain campaign, Palin's decision to start quote going rogue, and most of all, how she changed the game and ushered in a new era in American politics. They say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters? Okay? Just like incredible. So the mccing guys are sitting around, they've got a pullback saying they're losing, and they're freaking out, and they're seeing all this average about how Obama's turned off all the women. And somebody popped up through the floor boards. I don't know if it was Steve Schmidt or whoever it was, but somebody said, there's a woman in Alaska who's really great. That's Republican political consultant Mike Murphy. He was friends with John McCain and a top advisor when the Arizona senator first ran for president back in two thousand. That was, of course, when McCain made his name riding the Straight Talk Express, but ultimately lost the nomination to George W. Bush. Proudly accept your nomination. I have said that I will support the nominee of the party. I look forward to enthusiastically campaigning for Governor Busch for the next six months, but when McCain finally won his party's nomination in two thousand eight, Murphy watched from the sidelines. At first she was new and interesting and pretty and not a typical grumpy, old white Republican guy. But I uh, I think the first act was that new splash of excitement, and then the second act was unraveling the meltdown, the true Hollywood story of Sarah Palin, and that that was It's cruel but interesting to watch somebody who was incapable melt under constant media scrutiny, and then the professional kind of Tina Fey comedy while just grinding away. We don't know if this climate change, WHOSI what's it is man made or if it's just a natural part of the end of days. But those SNL sketches were not the only thing grinding away at Sarah Palin. The media was relentless with the interviews she has done are raising eyebrows. The most recent with Katie Curran. Excerpt from an interview with Katie Kuric. Here's the question, is Governor Sarah Palin qualified to be president? And remember, around the same time Palin was starting to draw some serious scrutiny, the global economy was collapsing, and McCain had a big announcement to make tomorrow morning, I'll suspend my campaign and return to Washington. As part of that campaign suspension, McCain requested that the presidential debate, scheduled for two days later, be postponed. His opponent, Barack Obama, pushed back, it's my belief that this is exactly the time when the American people need to hear from the person who, in approximately forty days will be responsible for dealing with this mess. It ended up looking a bit like McCain was trying to duck the first debate, or it was some kind of publicity stunt. Yeah, either way, it wasn't a good look. McCain ended up going to the debate, But the bottom line is that in the three week period between the convention and that debate, he'd gone from a dead heat in the polls to nine points down. Post debate, Pale and did another interview with you on CBS. That's right, Brian, but this time it was a joint interview with John McCain. They hoped to stem the damage from the first interview, but they couldn't quite present a united front. Over the weekend, Governor Palin, you said the U. S Should absolutely launch cross border attacks from Afghanistan into Pakistan to quote stop the terrorists from coming any further in. Now, that's almost the exact position Barack Obama has taken, and that you, Senator McCain have criticized as something you do not say out loud. So, Governor Palin, are you two on the same page. We had a great discussion with President. Then in early October, bad news started to surface. In Alaska, Sarah Palin found herself embroiled in trooper gate. Last July, Palin fired Alaska's Public Safety Commissioner, Walt Monaghan. He says he was fired because he refused to fire Palin's former brother in law, Mike Wootton, a state trooper. And then there was the so called Bridge to Nowhere. On the campaign trail, Sarah Palin said, thanks, but no thanks for that bridge to nowhere up in Alaska. If our state wanted a bridge, we were going to build it ourselves. But as it turns out, she actually did support that project, which really undercut her image as this outsider who defied the wastefulness of Washington, and then in mid October, leaks from the McCain campaign about Governor Palin's erratic behavior and reports that she had been spending lots of campaign funds on clothing for her and her family, like a hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth. A New York Times article from late October noted a seventy five thousand dollar tab at Nemon Marcus at about fifty thousand at Saxfith Avenue. All these embarrassments really started to add up. It was pretty clear the McCain campaign was falling out of love with Sarah Palin. So, Steve, at this point, did you entertain any thoughts of replacing her on the Republican ticket? Campaign strategist doesn't, I mean, doesn't have that power right unilaterally. That's Steve Schmidt, a senior McCain adviser. We heard a lot from him in Part one. We had a conversation amongst a small group after Lehman Brothers went down and the global economy collapse, that this was something that we would talk about, we would entertain, and that would only be on the basis of upward momentum in the race, Brian. We were both stunned when Steve Schmidt told us that, Yeah, Katie, I thought this was absolutely incredible. In other words, Schmidt and a small group within the McCain campaign agreed that if it looked like McCain might actually win, they would go to him to discuss dropping Sarah Palin. She was creating not just political problems, but potentially legal ones as well. Everywhere He's candidates go, they're they're handed, you know, a jersey jacket. You know, there's some there's some gift that someone gives. And you know, for McCain and Obama, who were both senators, and ethics laws with felony provisions on it. You have to take those items, log them in, send them back to the campaign headquarters, and if the candidate wants this stuff at the end of the campaign, they can buy it, right, but you can't accept the gift. And so in Palin's case, you had hundreds of thousands of dollars of clothes purchases that were obscenely inappropriate. You had no gifts being logged in, and each one of these things was a felony violation right of Alaska ethics law. And I honest to God, believed that if we were somehow able to manage to win in this, she never would have made it to the oath of office because of the hundreds of felony violations of free gifts, free ship and everything else that they grifted off of the campaign, and it would all come out. So wait a second. You had total confidence that if McCain were elected, Palin would never have been come vice president. That's right by the middle of it, because each pair of Ferragamo shoes was a felony. That's a felony. The ethics laws of the of the state were crystal clear. This seems almost in this era of Trump, almost traite. But if the McCain campaign was getting exasperated with Sarah Palon, it was clear she was getting fed up too. I think that there were probably moments and times where Sarah decided to screw this, I'm just gonna do this the way I feel it, which always got the more natural response from the audience, and that was really evident a lot of times when she and McCain were together. That's Michael Steele, the former chairman of the Republican National Committee. He defends Pale and style of aggressive campaigning, which was so different from John McCain's more measured approach. Listen here as McCain speaks with one of his supporters that town hall. This is one of those classic McCain moments that was replayed a lot when he died in August. I can't trust Obama. I have read about him, and he's not He's not he's a UM. He's an Arab. He is not no no man, no man, He's a He's a He's a decent family man, citizen that I just happened to have disagreements with on on fundamental issues. And that's what this campaign is all about. He's not, thank you, UM, we're scared of an Obama presidency. I have to tell you he is a decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared as president United States. Now, I just now, I just the thing is, McCain actually had no problem going negative against Barack Obama, but there were certain lines he just wouldn't cross. But for Palin there didn't seem to be an lines. She didn't hesitate to paint Obama as different from her and her supporters. I am just so fearful that this is not a man who sees America. This is not a man who sees America. Man, you and I Derreica as you and I see America. She used guilt by associations our opponents. Is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to pall around with terrorists who targeted their own country, to work with a former domestics with her former domestic terrorist kind of targeted his own country. Press bashing this vs. Coming from the lamestream media. Don't get sucked into the lamestream media's lies about how conservative America's standing up for freedom and her rallies were increasingly marked by volatile outburst. Washington Post reporting that when Governor Palin recounted the Obama and Air's portion of her stump speech in Clearwater, one man in the audience proposing to quote kill him whether the remark was great, you're the terrorist ires of all the ires, Palin never lifted a finger to tap down those feelings. Do you think that was a mistake. You know, that's a good question. I don't know. That's Michael Steele again. Always in every campaign was the role of the vice presidential candidate to be the attack dog. It's the attack dog I'm the bad cop, you're the good cop. Mr. Presidential nominee. Why is it so different? Because she hit some hot buttons that people didn't want hit. So I'm not going to place that completely on Sarah's shoulders because there was some derivative benefit to the campaign for it. It's interesting that Michael Steele, who was the first black chair of the Republican Party, says Palin got too much flak for her campaign rhetoric. Okay, I think what colors that, if I can use that word, is the fact that they were running against an African American UM. If Obama was some white guy from Illinois, I don't think people would have this take the same Umbridge um and see the same level of dangerous rhetoric. But but Republican audiences didn't shout treason, terrorists kill him about Al Gore and John Kerry. No, they didn't. They shouted other things that were, you know, just as reprehensible. Do you think Palin was using race in some sense? She wasn't using race in some sense. She was using race. This was he's not one of us, he's different, He's one of them. That's Jessica Gellen, who covered Palin for CNN was the community organizer attack about race. I think that was about race and class. How so he's organizing those people to get power, and that's a threat. I think that's implicit. Well, if Palin was using a dog whistle when it came to issues of race and class, she was using a bullhorn when it came to attacking the media. Jessica Yellen covered many Palin rallies. The rally was set up was outdoors, and she was on the podium and then there were about seven thousand people there and then we're right up against the crowd on these rafters, and at one point she was rilling people up about the lamestream media and how dishonest we are. And then she said, turn around, turn around there, right there, and you look down. There's a sea of people sort of you know, throwing their fist and looking truly enraged. And I didn't feel necessarily physically threatened. I just could sense they perceived us as so hostile to what they value and so almost un American in their eyes. And it was so oppositional to everything that I've ever thought about America and how we engage in politics. And I realized that there was this real divide and it was being fanned. People didn't really appreciate how intense and raw that emotion was and how the media it was seen as connected totally with the establishment and what is perceived as wrong in this country. Don't get sucked into the lamestream media's lies about concerned of America's standing up for not since Richard Nixon's VP Spureau Agnew called the press nattering nabobs of negativism, had a political figure so vilified the media. In contrast, John McCain didn't go after the press. He courted them. Yeah, Katie, wasn't it true that before the joint interview you did with McCain and Palin, McCain made a point of complimenting you. Yes he did. Brian. In fact, with Sarah Palin sitting right next to him, he said, Katie, good to see you. Thank you for that interview with Governor Palin. I thought it was very fair. I just wish I still had that on tape. Yeah, me too, But Sarah Palin was an entirely different political animal. She was hitting notes that other Republicans shied away from. Here's Mike Murphy. I think it's more you can hear in McCain when he found his instincts the old institution respecting music of the traditional writer center Republican Party, and in her music which was all by ear to the crowds, the primary voters who would actually show up for the stuff, the music of the anti institutionalism, the populism. So I mean, that's definite evidence that the primary voters were moving away from the old model, that that candidates like McCain, Bush Family, Bob Dole, you know, had all grant it. So the difference between Palin and her forerunners on the Republican ticket is that those people you think showed more restraint in telling the base what they wanted to hear. Yeah, yeah, they managed the base, uh, because look at primary voters, they generally would rather have the hot sauce. And both parties, by the way, and so I think she started seeing primary voters and gave them what they wanted, because once you would feed off the crowd. And two it was in her interest as she started losing faith in the campaign's ability to beat the President Obama. And as much as Palin excited the base and gave them plenty of hot sauce, it just wasn't enough, and CNN can now project that Barack Obama will become the President elect of the United States with the McCain Palin ticket got of the vote. He will be the first African American president. But Palin was just getting the base warmed up after the break. The Republic Again party is on fire in Chicago. Let's listen in for a moment. A little bit earlier this sevenent, I received an extraordinarily gracious call from Centator for pa. I congratulate him. I congratulate Governor Palin. It's February two. Barack Obama has been in office for just over a year. The left is energized, and the president is center stage. Here he is addressing the Winter meeting of the Democratic National Committee. Let me be clear, I am not going to walk away from health insurance reform. I'm not going to walk away on this challenge. I'm not gonna walk away on any challenge. We're moving forward. On the same day as that speech, down in Nashville, another political celebrity was take making a very different stage. It was the first ever Tea Party national convention, and Sarah Palin was the star. This was all part of that hope and change and transparency. And now a year later, I got to ask the supporters of all that, how's that hopey, changey stuff working out for you? She wrote a memoir, Going Rogue, which incidentally sold two million copies, and joined Fox News as a political commentator. Governor, can we trust them? Well? Can I trust our federal government? Um? Is the bear Catholic? Does the Pope live in the woods? No? I do not trust our federal government. Her brand of politics was gaining steam. Even John McCain had to respond. Running for re election back in two ten, he was challenged by a Tea Party candidate, and as a result, both his rhetoric and his record took a sharp right turn. Complete the dang fins, Senator, you're one of us. I'm John McCain, and I approved this message. A border fence That sure sounds familiar. Now let's fast forward a year to two thousand eleven. Sarah Palin's back on Fox N Governor Donald Trump was considering a run for the presidency. Uh says that he's got investigators in Hawaii looking for President Obama's birth certificate. What do you make of that? Well, I appreciate that the Donald wants to spend his resources and getting to the bottom of something that it so interests him in many Americans, you know, more power to him. Hallen wasn't just defending Donald Trump on the birther argument. The two were also breaking bread, or at least sharing a pizza in New York City. Remember that, Brian, I do, and I remember that. People commented on the fact that he ate his pizza with a knife and fork. I remember that as well. Who does that? Actually? I do that sometimes too. Anyway, they seem to be pretty chummy, and when Palin hosted a political talk show, she invited Donald Trump to be her guest. I have to tell you you are a terrific person and it's great to be with you. Thank you for taking your valuable time and share you with us. Thank you. It seemed like they were two piece in a political pod, the antithesis of policy walks, flamethrowing populace, antagonists of Obama, and vehement critics of the press, except, of course, Fox News. So it was no real surprise when two weeks before the Iowa Caucuses in perfectly positioned to let you make America great again? Are you ready for that? Iowa? Our next president of the United States, Donald J. Trump. Palin's endorsement was seen as a real boon to Trump's candidacy because she still had a big following among the Republican base. That's right, and at that point, Brian, as you'll recall, very few people thought Donald Trump would ever get the nomination. But Palin seemed to be right back in her element at that press conference, particularly relishing the chance to needle the national media. Hands are spinning, media heads are spinning. This is going to be so much fun. The surprising rise of Donald Trump made me reflect once again on those interviews I did with Sarah Palin. She might not have been able to name a single newspaper or magazine, but she did read where the electorate, or at least a significant part of it, was moving. She may have stumbled over issues, but she found firm footing on the political stage, where image and personality seemed to trump policy details. And Katie, she was really early to a trend that's exploded since the financial crisis, a declining faith in institutions, disdain for experts and elites, not just here in the US but around the world. I think that people in this country have had enough of experts with organizations any from organizations with acronyms, saying that they know what is best in getting consistently wrong. We've also seen more and more fear of the other Europe grappling with refugees and America with undocumented immigrants. Both Palin and Trump made these issues central to their message. Here's former Obama chief strategists David axel Rod. There's no doubt that Palin's appeal and Trump's appealed draw on racial resentment. That's not the entire story, but that's a that's a big piece of it. And uh, you know, in Trump's case, he could not have been more self conscious about it from the time he came down the escalator, you know, blasting uh and in the ugly a sort of way at at immigrants from Mexico. They're bringing crime, their rapists, and some I assume are good people. He went after the racial resentment vote. But we should point out there are two fundamental ways Sarah Palin was not like Donald Trump. One was her critique of Russia. It's true that her comments about Russia were ridiculed at the time, but Palin's assessment of Putin back in two thousand and eight feels spot on today, and we've got to keep an eye on Russia. For Russia to have exerted such pressure in terms of invading a smaller democratic country unprovoked is unacceptable and we have to keep I do believe unprovoked, and we have got to keep our eyes on Russia under the leadership. There the other difference. Oh yeah, Palin is a woman, obviously, and I wonder whether Palin's gender can help us understand why she was punished for her lack of knowledge in two thousand and eight, but eight years later, Donald Trump managed to get away with knowing very little, sometimes shockingly little. Don't believe those phony numbers when you hear four point nine and five percent unemployment, the numbers probably as high as thirty five. In fact, I even heard recently, I know more about ices than the generals do. Believe me. We have a lower incarceration rate for Mexican immigrants and illegal immigrants, and we do for any U s points. It's a wrong statistic. Go check your numbers. It's totally wrong. It sounds good, it sounds good. It's a wrong statistic. Check your numbers, I asked Nicole Wallace. Who was Palents advisor during the early stages of the campaign, if she thought sexism played a role in why Trump succeeded and Palin didn't. Sure, of course, Again, you know, Donald Trump is more ignorant than Sarah Palin and didn't go down trying. She fell asleep at night with a highlighter in her hand every night, trying to bridge the gaps in her knowledge and trying to not disappoint John McCain. I didn't see Donald Trump, and I just covered him. I didn't never work for him, but I didn't see him trying at any point to bridge any of the gaps in his knowledge. So I think she paid a bigger price for her ignorance than Donald Trump has for his. When you are a conservative Republican woman, you challenge kind of the rules of what women are supposed to be. Here again, Mike Murphy, and pop culture is quick to wheel on you as a caricature. Now, Palin, with her lack of depth and gravitas, made a lot worse. But I think they and you know, this thing changes because Hillary got a fair amount of beating. But when Hillary runs for president Saturday and Live is pretty soft, I mean good material when Palin runs, the whole turret turns and she was ratings, she was show business, so she got in that hot frying pan, which the campaign wanted because they thought she was a star, and she couldn't take it. And the world of evaluating candidates, I think is a little harsher on Republican women than Democratic women. Whether the media is tougher on Republican women is up for debate, but what's not debatable is that the media is tougher on women in general, especially women running for national office. In fact, Palin and of course later Hillary Clinton got more negative coverage than their male counterparts and a lot more discussion about their appearance. On the other hand, the McCain campaign seemed to raise the specter of sexism to try to inoculate Governor Palin against criticism. Once again, here's Jessica Yellin when she was named and when she was headed into the convention. We hadn't had time to really vet or know that much, but I got the calls saying this is an able, experienced, knowledgeable, deeply engaged politician who has a vision for the future of the country, and any coverage that reflects otherwise as sexist and it was almost laying down a marker. And why were they being so defensive about her knowledge. Well, of course, as a reporter, your antenna immediately go up, going, oh that's interesting. What do we have to investigate here? You want women in the public eye to rise or fall on their merits and if they come under gendered sexist attack, uh, speak up and pointed out absolutely. But in the case of Sarah Palin, she would miss on the basics, she would do the Kati Kirk interview and not have answers, and then when she took heat say that it was a sexist, it was sexist to criticize her. Do you think coverage of Sarah Palin was sexist, Yes, in a different way. How First of all, I think she was dismissed early because of her gender. She was treated differently because she was an attractive young female. We don't have many women running for high office who are still i don't know how to say this, in their sexual prime, who haven't gone through menopause, who don't look like dowagers. You know, if you have gray hair and you're like a grandma, that's a lot less threatening. But when you have a woman like Sarah Palin, who's on the cover of Newsweek magazine wearing shorty shorts and showing her legs um. Even though she didn't pose that for that specific cover. You know, it's threatening in a different way because she's both attractive and seeking, you know, a Jason's the highest office in the land. So I think that played into how she was treated. Murphy sees another difference. Trump was different from Palin, and that he'd been on the Apprentice for ten years, you know, in a fake boardroom built out a cardboard and plywood, pretending to fire the second rate celebrities who are pretending to work for him to do product placement commercials inside the show. But the perception was he's the can do in charge, no bs art of the deal guy, and he was famous. Palin, her hand was totally unknown until she got beamed up with one speech to the convention, So she was a lot more vulnerable, I think to media take apart, she was a blank sheet and was defined by stupid, you know, pretty soon in somewhat sexist ways. So Trump. Trump had a lot more natural armor, and Trump was also more adroit at attacking institutions. Palin had a little bit of traditionalist in her because the rules were different then, and she also had a running mate who was not going to continent that stuff at all. So she was in a tougher position than Trump, I think, both in terms of environment and what she was armed with. Meanwhile, in the aftermath of the two thou eight campaign, Palin also positioned herself in a new way as a victim. Here again McCain adviser Steve Schmidt and Nicole Wallace. So this is this moment in time where you know, the ability to portray yourself as a victim of whatever, the deep state, big media, right, all these nefarious, conspiring sources, becomes a powerful, powerful proxy. Well, it becomes a powerful asset within the Republican Party. That this combination of victimization and grievance, and of course, if you turned out a Trump, right, what Trump understands intuitively is the victims are never going to pick another victim to be their leader. The victims want to pick an avenger to be their leader. And that's what Trump is. What changed between two thousand and eight and today? Why did this grievance politics fail with Sarah Palin but work for Donald Trump? You know, at the at the end of the day, Sarah Palin was never anything more than a victim. She wasn't able to play the role of avenger, of strongman, of toughness. And you know, Trump was a man who found his moment um at a time where there's great contempt within the Republican parties based for its elected leaders. The forces um that sustained Trump, you know, are of a direct lineage to the forces that sustained George Wallace. And what's always been the constant in the history of the country is that at moments where there has been racial progress, there has been another racial regression. The emancipation of the slaves and then the wave of terror in the eighteen seventies with the Ku Klex Klan, the heroism of African Americans in the First World War having fought for liberty assure, and you have this terrible regression in the nineteen twenties. And the reality is after the first African American president, there has been another racial regression where the forces of intolerance that have always been in this country, you know, have been ascending an assertive um. And you you've just never had the case with someone like Trump where you have a person so purposely divisive, an inciter of the worst impulses has ever gained power in the United States of America. But thus it has happened. She was the canary in the mind that the party had changed, and it had become more animated by xenophobia, by nativism, by grievances than by any single animating idea. What the party became with something unrecognizable to I think anyone that was part of the Bush era politics of compassionate conservatism, of or even Reaganism, of America as a shining city on the hill. I think what Palin ushered in she legitimized um a really ugly, angry underbelly of the Republican Party that's now it's done in its train. If there hadn't been a Sarah Palin, would there be a Donald Trump? You know? I mean, I think that that constituency was there waiting to be marshaled. And of course we saw the Tea Party movement here again. Former Obama strategist David axel Rod. To some degree, Donald Trump is a reaction to Barack Obama, just as every president is a reaction to the previous president, and Barack Obama was a jarring cultural figure to some because he was the personification of change in in a changing country. Um, you know, and that that demographic change, that cultural change was deeply, deeply concerning to the Palin Trump base. And so I look back at UH, those pale and rallies at the end of the tooth as an aide campaign, and I can draw a straight line from those UH to the election of Donald Trump. Donald Trump picked up on the kind of themes of of Palin from the sort of mining of the obvious divisions and resentments, and he exploited them brilliantly. Becoming John McCain's friend is one of the great blessings of my life. Being asked to pay tribute to him today is one of the great honors. When John McCain died in August, many famous politicians attended his funeral, from Joe Lieberman to George W. Bush. John was born to meet that kind of challenge, to defend and demonstrate the defining ideals of our nation, to Barack Obama. When John spoke with virtues like service and duty, it didn't ring hollow, But the guest list was just as notable for who wasn't on it. President Trump wasn't invited, nor was Sarah Palin. Steve Schmidt and Nicole Wallace didn't make the cut either, and Brian Steve Schmidt said this deeply saddened him. But he also told me there was really no unfinished business between them. The last thing John McCain said to him was I love you, Stevie boy. But apparently the fact that Stephen Nicole were brutally honest about Sarah Palin's shortcomings and the drama that unfolded inside the campaign was more straight talk than John McCain wanted. Or perhaps the McCain family just wanted to put aside the catastrophe of two thousand and eight and where it might have led the years since. It's probably worth noting that despite it all, John McCain never said anything negative about Sarah Palin. The only thing he did say at the very end of his life was that he wished he had picked Joe Lieberman. Do you think he would feel picking Sarah Palin was one of his biggest regrets. I think it would be wrong for me to project, you know, my pretty strong feelings onto him. I think he is one of the more remarkable political leaders that this country has produced over the last forty years. And you know, no one's ever claimed infallibility here, no one's ever said, you know, haven't made mistakes, haven't been expedient, right, haven't you know? Oh, you guys were political. We were because it was a presidential campaign. You're you're trying to win. I think everybody who who was involved in it, um and their heart of hearts knows, um, what a mistake it was. We wanted to win an election and thought John McCain would be a good president and this thing went horribly, horribly, horribly wrong, and um, you know, navigating it over those ten weeks is you know, it was something that you know, for me, I still, you know, feel very viscerally ten years later, and I suspect ten years from now will feel the same. She could have been a real force. If she had gone back to Wassilla, done her homework, had the intellectual curiosity to school herself on important policy issues and then come back with a vengeance, she could have been president. These are questions for her and that wraps up our two parts special Looking back at the Palin Interviews ten years later. A huge thank you to our producers reference John Dolor and Stephen Valentino. The episodes were mixed by John Dolor and Jared O'Connell, and of course thanks to the rest of the team at Stitcher. That's Johannah Palmer, Nora Richie, Casey Holford and Chris Bannon. Invisible Studios in l A helped out with recordings for this episode. Thanks to them as well, and of course a big thank you as always to my assistant Beth Demas and Julia Lewis, who keeps my Instagram and Twitter accounts moving and grieving that she does. Mark Phillips wrote our theme music. Katie Curriic and I are the show's executive producers. You'll find Katie all over social media if you search Katie Curic, especially worthwhile to check her out Instagram. Those stories are well, they're really something rivet I tweet from at Goldsmith b. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you or you'll hear us next week.

Next Question with Katie Couric

Tired of political headlines that feel like déjà vu? Wondering if you actually need to care about ev 
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 371 clip(s)