Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question today everyone. My guest is Steve Schmidt. He's a veteran political strategist who shaped major campaigns for Republican heavyweights like John McCain and George W. Bush. Now he has turned his sharp eye on the party itself, emerging as a very powerful voice against its transformation under Donald J.

Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question today everyone. My guest is Steve Schmidt. He's a veteran political strategist who shaped major campaigns for Republican heavyweights like John McCain and George W. Bush. Now he has turned his sharp eye on the party itself, emerging as a very powerful voice against its transformation under Donald J.

Trump.

Trump.

With Trump headed back to the White House, we're going to try to make heads or tails of this chaotic transition period. And it is chaotic, folks. We're looking ahead at what twenty twenty five might hold with a few glances back at what led to Trump's second term, from media trust to democratic strategy and Trump's wild cabinet picks. Steve has thoughts, and he is not holding back, and he really likes to talk. Fair warning everyone. I love him, though, so grab your favorite beverage. My drink of choice these days is to kill on the rocks and settle in for a candid, no holds barred conversation about America's next chapter. Steve Schmidt, so happy to see you. I haven't talked to you since election night, as we were processing the fact that Donald Trump was going to win the election. That was about three weeks ago, Steve, and I'm just curious how you've been able to understand what happened in this election and why.

With Trump headed back to the White House, we're going to try to make heads or tails of this chaotic transition period. And it is chaotic, folks. We're looking ahead at what twenty twenty five might hold with a few glances back at what led to Trump's second term, from media trust to democratic strategy and Trump's wild cabinet picks. Steve has thoughts, and he is not holding back, and he really likes to talk. Fair warning everyone. I love him, though, so grab your favorite beverage. My drink of choice these days is to kill on the rocks and settle in for a candid, no holds barred conversation about America's next chapter. Steve Schmidt, so happy to see you. I haven't talked to you since election night, as we were processing the fact that Donald Trump was going to win the election. That was about three weeks ago, Steve, and I'm just curious how you've been able to understand what happened in this election and why.

Huh. Well, so, I think in the end that Donald Trump is many, many, many things, but among them is not a hypocrite. And that is the high card of American life, the unpardonable sin that you're full of shit. And at the end of the day, more clear now than when we spoke, exampled by Joe Scarborough and Mika Brazinski, is the performative nature of all of this. Soon will be on the four year anniversary of January sixth. I watched it when CNN reported it as a riot. I tweeted out in that moment, that's not a riot, it's an insurrection. It's exactly what it was. And the American people in the end were unbothered by it. And so we had a breach of the peaceful transition of power, and we had a failure by the Biden administry and by Joe Biden, both exceptionally and singularly, to communicate effectively to the country when he became president two weeks after that, that what happened was astonishing, extraordinary, and there was nothing more important than it ever ever right, not happening again, and so the entire focus of the administration should have been that. Instead, he treated Donald Trump as a prop to be used to turn out voters like Voldemort in a Harry Potter movie. And so for years Trump was the justification for Joe Biden and I'm breaking my promise and running for four more years. During all of this, what rose was oppositional to the media, that you were part of the media, that you were part of held power to account when you worked at a network, and that media was deeply connected to what happened in nineteen seventy two, nineteen seventy three, in nineteen seventy four, when a president of the United States said he was above the law and inspired a generation. By the time we get to where we are now, it's very different. When Scarborough looks into the camera and he says to his audience on what's supposed to be the most important public affairs morning show in the country on a network that Tom brokecaw worked at, to his audience, fuck you if you don't believe what I'm telling you, which is the truth. This is the best Biden we've ever had analytically and intellectually in every single person, including me, who said that that was bullshit was shouted down and smeared by somebody in a position of power, or by somebody making money from somebody in a position of power close to the power in a political establishment that has been repudiated, has been rejected and cast out in favor of Donald Trump, and their takeaway from it, by and large three weeks later is the American people are stupid, racist and we did nothing wrong. So at this moment, fifty one days before the inauguration, the American people are going to have an experiential odyssey for which I think they have a real lack of imagination, despite being warned about it, despite having nine years to process it. And so we're going to get to see the answer to the question spill out in real time about what happens next when a Pete Hegseth is the Secretary of Defense, when a man who wants to bring back polio in smallpox, like Robert F. Kennedy becomes the head of the public health services. So it's going to end up tragically and badly. There will be a lot of harm. But in a democracy, you get the government you deserve. I'm sorry for the long answer, but that's what happened.

Huh. Well, so, I think in the end that Donald Trump is many, many, many things, but among them is not a hypocrite. And that is the high card of American life, the unpardonable sin that you're full of shit. And at the end of the day, more clear now than when we spoke, exampled by Joe Scarborough and Mika Brazinski, is the performative nature of all of this. Soon will be on the four year anniversary of January sixth. I watched it when CNN reported it as a riot. I tweeted out in that moment, that's not a riot, it's an insurrection. It's exactly what it was. And the American people in the end were unbothered by it. And so we had a breach of the peaceful transition of power, and we had a failure by the Biden administry and by Joe Biden, both exceptionally and singularly, to communicate effectively to the country when he became president two weeks after that, that what happened was astonishing, extraordinary, and there was nothing more important than it ever ever right, not happening again, and so the entire focus of the administration should have been that. Instead, he treated Donald Trump as a prop to be used to turn out voters like Voldemort in a Harry Potter movie. And so for years Trump was the justification for Joe Biden and I'm breaking my promise and running for four more years. During all of this, what rose was oppositional to the media, that you were part of the media, that you were part of held power to account when you worked at a network, and that media was deeply connected to what happened in nineteen seventy two, nineteen seventy three, in nineteen seventy four, when a president of the United States said he was above the law and inspired a generation. By the time we get to where we are now, it's very different. When Scarborough looks into the camera and he says to his audience on what's supposed to be the most important public affairs morning show in the country on a network that Tom brokecaw worked at, to his audience, fuck you if you don't believe what I'm telling you, which is the truth. This is the best Biden we've ever had analytically and intellectually in every single person, including me, who said that that was bullshit was shouted down and smeared by somebody in a position of power, or by somebody making money from somebody in a position of power close to the power in a political establishment that has been repudiated, has been rejected and cast out in favor of Donald Trump, and their takeaway from it, by and large three weeks later is the American people are stupid, racist and we did nothing wrong. So at this moment, fifty one days before the inauguration, the American people are going to have an experiential odyssey for which I think they have a real lack of imagination, despite being warned about it, despite having nine years to process it. And so we're going to get to see the answer to the question spill out in real time about what happens next when a Pete Hegseth is the Secretary of Defense, when a man who wants to bring back polio in smallpox, like Robert F. Kennedy becomes the head of the public health services. So it's going to end up tragically and badly. There will be a lot of harm. But in a democracy, you get the government you deserve. I'm sorry for the long answer, but that's what happened.

Well, let me pull apart some of the things you just claimed because it was a long answer, Steve, And is it really fair to put the onus on Joe Biden for Donald try Trump's victory. Is what I'm hearing you say that he should have been focused on the insurrection and saying it was unacceptable. But he did have to go about the business of running the country and being president of the United States. You're faulting him for not emphasizing that enough and for running a second time.

Well, let me pull apart some of the things you just claimed because it was a long answer, Steve, And is it really fair to put the onus on Joe Biden for Donald try Trump's victory. Is what I'm hearing you say that he should have been focused on the insurrection and saying it was unacceptable. But he did have to go about the business of running the country and being president of the United States. You're faulting him for not emphasizing that enough and for running a second time.

I'm faulting him for his titanic egotism that led to his breaking of his implicit promise, which is I will be a one term president and put the country first. It's not what he did. The truth of the matter is is the quiet part just wasn't set out loud by anyone except for Dean Phillips, who's now patted again on the back by all of his colleagues who knew what he was saying was true, then attacked him when he set it out loud outside the green room. And now that it's been proven true. It can be talked again about in private.

I'm faulting him for his titanic egotism that led to his breaking of his implicit promise, which is I will be a one term president and put the country first. It's not what he did. The truth of the matter is is the quiet part just wasn't set out loud by anyone except for Dean Phillips, who's now patted again on the back by all of his colleagues who knew what he was saying was true, then attacked him when he set it out loud outside the green room. And now that it's been proven true. It can be talked again about in private.

When you say something has been proven true, Steve, you're talking about Joe Biden's inability to run the government. Is that what you're referring to.

When you say something has been proven true, Steve, you're talking about Joe Biden's inability to run the government. Is that what you're referring to.

To communicate, to talk to inspire, to lead, to make it up the full set of stairs on Air Force one in an urgent moment. And so there was a moment in history in the country where the president was incapacitated by a stroke.

To communicate, to talk to inspire, to lead, to make it up the full set of stairs on Air Force one in an urgent moment. And so there was a moment in history in the country where the president was incapacitated by a stroke.

President Wilson, right, and Edith was running the government, and he was propped up in the car, propped.

President Wilson, right, and Edith was running the government, and he was propped up in the car, propped.

Up running the country. And Edith Wilson believes she did the right thing. She sincerely and honestly believed. It really wasn't a book. Well what do you do in that circumstance? You know, she did in her estimation what Woodrow Wilson would have wanted. But the point is the main point is that everybody and the most that can never happen again. And so over and over an over again, the American people were told things Joe Biden's FDR, the economy's the best it's ever been, Bidenomics. You know what, the American people, working people in the country, forty percent of which don't have four hundred dollars available, don't like being lectured by millionaires on television telling them how great it is. They said, fu, and they voted for Trump because the economy wasn't great. That was a figment of a bunch of elites imaginations in New York and Washington. And we now have Trump in the White House. That's one reason. That's one thing. He did Afghanistan, completing total incompetence on the withdrawal, and he was beaten about the head on it for four straight years. Joe Biden said that the border was secure? Was the border secure? It was not secure. Adult life and I may have said this on election night requires you to hold multiple contradictory thoughts. Trump is the most prolific liar in American history. But if the country thinks he's the most honest president we've ever had, because there's no filtered thought. But when you apply the test about who's telling the truth, who's really honest, who was telling the truth about the border, who was telling the truth about the economy, who was telling the truth about what happened in Afghanistan? Who was telling the truth about Biden's capacity? It was Donald Trump, not Joe Biden, and the problem with that strategically, if your foundation is the opposition party to Donald Trump is built on a sandbox, on mush on the same type of Trump in dishonesty, you rail against, you lose, and that's what happened.

Up running the country. And Edith Wilson believes she did the right thing. She sincerely and honestly believed. It really wasn't a book. Well what do you do in that circumstance? You know, she did in her estimation what Woodrow Wilson would have wanted. But the point is the main point is that everybody and the most that can never happen again. And so over and over an over again, the American people were told things Joe Biden's FDR, the economy's the best it's ever been, Bidenomics. You know what, the American people, working people in the country, forty percent of which don't have four hundred dollars available, don't like being lectured by millionaires on television telling them how great it is. They said, fu, and they voted for Trump because the economy wasn't great. That was a figment of a bunch of elites imaginations in New York and Washington. And we now have Trump in the White House. That's one reason. That's one thing. He did Afghanistan, completing total incompetence on the withdrawal, and he was beaten about the head on it for four straight years. Joe Biden said that the border was secure? Was the border secure? It was not secure. Adult life and I may have said this on election night requires you to hold multiple contradictory thoughts. Trump is the most prolific liar in American history. But if the country thinks he's the most honest president we've ever had, because there's no filtered thought. But when you apply the test about who's telling the truth, who's really honest, who was telling the truth about the border, who was telling the truth about the economy, who was telling the truth about what happened in Afghanistan? Who was telling the truth about Biden's capacity? It was Donald Trump, not Joe Biden, and the problem with that strategically, if your foundation is the opposition party to Donald Trump is built on a sandbox, on mush on the same type of Trump in dishonesty, you rail against, you lose, and that's what happened.

Let me ask you about the role of the media, because you point out Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzenski as sort of the consummate media, I guess enablers in some ways. Talk about that and the role you believe they played in turning many voters against Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and into the arms of Donald Trump.

Let me ask you about the role of the media, because you point out Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzenski as sort of the consummate media, I guess enablers in some ways. Talk about that and the role you believe they played in turning many voters against Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and into the arms of Donald Trump.

I don't think that enough people watch the show that it determines outcomes. What it does is shape a narrative, right. It creates a choke point in the artery of information around what you can say and what you can't say in the acceptable speech lane, in the truth lane. At a moment in American politics that some of us are trying to say is urgent, is exigent, and is a crisis. And when you watch Joe Biden perform by twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, and you appreciate what the central line of attack is and you look at the reality that it's clear if you have competency with regard to being able to assess the landscape of a presidential campaign, you can do that that Biden's in a lot of trouble. And what Joe Biden got from Joe Scarborough, his friend, wasn't favorable coverage, sympathetic coverage. Joe Scarborough decided, I'm gonna wear three hats, I'm gonna be the guy on the show, I'm gonna be the president's friend, and I'm gonna be his political advisor. And he was. And what's special about the United States is the and I really mean this, the genius of the people who founded the country. They were imperfect, they weren't just, but man, were they fucking brilliant. And they left us something called the First Amendment. And what the First Amendment guarantees is that the next era of journalism in America will be bottom up. And from this bottom up journalism will come the accountability, will come the challenge, and will come the information the American people need to have so that the next time they get a choice, which they'll have again, they can say time to turn around and change direction.

I don't think that enough people watch the show that it determines outcomes. What it does is shape a narrative, right. It creates a choke point in the artery of information around what you can say and what you can't say in the acceptable speech lane, in the truth lane. At a moment in American politics that some of us are trying to say is urgent, is exigent, and is a crisis. And when you watch Joe Biden perform by twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, and you appreciate what the central line of attack is and you look at the reality that it's clear if you have competency with regard to being able to assess the landscape of a presidential campaign, you can do that that Biden's in a lot of trouble. And what Joe Biden got from Joe Scarborough, his friend, wasn't favorable coverage, sympathetic coverage. Joe Scarborough decided, I'm gonna wear three hats, I'm gonna be the guy on the show, I'm gonna be the president's friend, and I'm gonna be his political advisor. And he was. And what's special about the United States is the and I really mean this, the genius of the people who founded the country. They were imperfect, they weren't just, but man, were they fucking brilliant. And they left us something called the First Amendment. And what the First Amendment guarantees is that the next era of journalism in America will be bottom up. And from this bottom up journalism will come the accountability, will come the challenge, and will come the information the American people need to have so that the next time they get a choice, which they'll have again, they can say time to turn around and change direction.

If you want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture. Sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. Let's talk about these cabinet picks, Steve, because Chris Coons of Delaware, a Democrat, described it as a reality show casting call, and there were a slew of people named over the weekend. Donald Trump doesn't want FBI background checks, he wants recess appointments, so the Senate doesn't even have to confirm these people. And there are a lot of questions about some of these folks. From RFK Junior Telsey Gavard Pete Hegseth. I thought Maureen Dowd's column was good this weekend when she said is Donald Trump protecting women or predators? Because there is a thread amongst some of these people in terms of the allegations they have faced. So, as you've watched these people be named and cabinet positions, other power full positions in the government, what has your reaction been shocking?

If you want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture. Sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. Let's talk about these cabinet picks, Steve, because Chris Coons of Delaware, a Democrat, described it as a reality show casting call, and there were a slew of people named over the weekend. Donald Trump doesn't want FBI background checks, he wants recess appointments, so the Senate doesn't even have to confirm these people. And there are a lot of questions about some of these folks. From RFK Junior Telsey Gavard Pete Hegseth. I thought Maureen Dowd's column was good this weekend when she said is Donald Trump protecting women or predators? Because there is a thread amongst some of these people in terms of the allegations they have faced. So, as you've watched these people be named and cabinet positions, other power full positions in the government, what has your reaction been shocking?

It's not surprising as shocking, Pete Hegsath cannot be must not be in the chain of command for the release of nuclear weapons with his white nationalist tattoos stamped on his chest. The answer is no. Now. If the United States Senate is unable to deliver the no with an assertion of its coequal power under the American system, that means we're in a crisis. If Trump appoints all of these people, these misfits, the disordered ones, absent FBI investigations, which is reckless, but through a recess process with the implicit approval of Republican senators objectively, in that moment, I could make an argument that the American Republic has fallen.

It's not surprising as shocking, Pete Hegsath cannot be must not be in the chain of command for the release of nuclear weapons with his white nationalist tattoos stamped on his chest. The answer is no. Now. If the United States Senate is unable to deliver the no with an assertion of its coequal power under the American system, that means we're in a crisis. If Trump appoints all of these people, these misfits, the disordered ones, absent FBI investigations, which is reckless, but through a recess process with the implicit approval of Republican senators objectively, in that moment, I could make an argument that the American Republic has fallen.

The big question is what will these senators do? And I think it's a big question mark at this juncture, we don't know what do you think reading the tea leaves, Steve, do you think they are going to give Donald Trump a green light? Or are they going to say our role is to advise and consent and we need to fully vet these individuals before they're put in these positions of incredible power.

The big question is what will these senators do? And I think it's a big question mark at this juncture, we don't know what do you think reading the tea leaves, Steve, do you think they are going to give Donald Trump a green light? Or are they going to say our role is to advise and consent and we need to fully vet these individuals before they're put in these positions of incredible power.

So I completely appreciate the ministerial part of this. If you're a senator to say, I'm not going to prejudge Nay Pete Hagsath, Tulca Gabbard we're going to wait for the confirmation hearings. I'm going to examine them, and I get the politics of that. There is nothing, not a single thing that any sentient US senator needs to know regarding these people's on fitness that isn't available right now. In this moment, you had a guy like Pete Hegseth, Right, you look at all these people. I was talking to someone like, who would you stop? If you can only stop one, which one would it be? And so I've talked to like fifteen people about this, right, I've had great conversations on this to some of these people all over the world. And I was talking to one of the I think I don't think he would mind. I was talking to John Nichols at the Nation magazine, and I think it's one of the smartest, brightest, most thoughtful people. And we came to the same conclusion, right, which is heg Seth, which is, if you were Captain Benson, you would follow the bread comes in the clues to the nuclear weapons. That job comes with nuclear weapons command and control. You want a lieutenant colonel following Pete Hegseeth around with the launch codes for the nuclear weapons. He gets to turn the key with the president, right, right, you know? Uh no. So you look at all these people and I try to imagine, like what could go wrong, what could go right? And I look at some of them like a Gabbard, there's nothing that can go right. A hag Seth, there's nothing that can go right. A Bobby Kennedy. Right, he could be in pharmaceutical advertising. But polio's coming back, so I'm against him too, right, We and and and and Christy noan Christine, No, we haven't even talked about her, right, Like the whole shooting of the dog. And I'm a dog lover, right, I have like dogs are a big part of my life, a lot of big part of like a lot of lives of Americans. She confessed to shooting the dog because the dog embarrassed her at a at a hunting party. And she just had the dog loose in the back of a pickup truck, so of course it jumped out because it wasn't trained to sitting there, and she killed it. And we want to make we want to make her the head of a gigantic federal police bureaucracy. It should be ninety eight to nothing. Send us somebody new that's not going to happen. But with regard to those people, in the scenario that you're laying out, what you're really talking about is you should start with a hard no of all of the Democrats, plus Murkowski and Collins, if they are who everybody seems to think they are, which isn't in a position of agreement with the Democrats, but serious people, but of course they would be.

So I completely appreciate the ministerial part of this. If you're a senator to say, I'm not going to prejudge Nay Pete Hagsath, Tulca Gabbard we're going to wait for the confirmation hearings. I'm going to examine them, and I get the politics of that. There is nothing, not a single thing that any sentient US senator needs to know regarding these people's on fitness that isn't available right now. In this moment, you had a guy like Pete Hegseth, Right, you look at all these people. I was talking to someone like, who would you stop? If you can only stop one, which one would it be? And so I've talked to like fifteen people about this, right, I've had great conversations on this to some of these people all over the world. And I was talking to one of the I think I don't think he would mind. I was talking to John Nichols at the Nation magazine, and I think it's one of the smartest, brightest, most thoughtful people. And we came to the same conclusion, right, which is heg Seth, which is, if you were Captain Benson, you would follow the bread comes in the clues to the nuclear weapons. That job comes with nuclear weapons command and control. You want a lieutenant colonel following Pete Hegseeth around with the launch codes for the nuclear weapons. He gets to turn the key with the president, right, right, you know? Uh no. So you look at all these people and I try to imagine, like what could go wrong, what could go right? And I look at some of them like a Gabbard, there's nothing that can go right. A hag Seth, there's nothing that can go right. A Bobby Kennedy. Right, he could be in pharmaceutical advertising. But polio's coming back, so I'm against him too, right, We and and and and Christy noan Christine, No, we haven't even talked about her, right, Like the whole shooting of the dog. And I'm a dog lover, right, I have like dogs are a big part of my life, a lot of big part of like a lot of lives of Americans. She confessed to shooting the dog because the dog embarrassed her at a at a hunting party. And she just had the dog loose in the back of a pickup truck, so of course it jumped out because it wasn't trained to sitting there, and she killed it. And we want to make we want to make her the head of a gigantic federal police bureaucracy. It should be ninety eight to nothing. Send us somebody new that's not going to happen. But with regard to those people, in the scenario that you're laying out, what you're really talking about is you should start with a hard no of all of the Democrats, plus Murkowski and Collins, if they are who everybody seems to think they are, which isn't in a position of agreement with the Democrats, but serious people, but of course they would be.

No.

No.

Sullivan in Alaska is a Marine Corps colonel in his previous life. Is U S Senator? Does he think it's okay for Pete Hegseth, who's regardless of whether he raped the woman or not that he's been accused of by our of raping or right that the police reports make clear, he's a dipshit of the highest variety. Right, he shouldn't. He shouldn't. He's not eligible to be an officer in the junior class at West Point with that type of conduct. It's unbecoming. Right. So, honestly, Robert Kennedy, right, is interesting right of all of these So for example, and I this is the one. I can argue this all day. But what I'm most interested about with regard to him is is two things He's declared war on the sugar soda industry, and they're gearing up like in Washington, like right now, right if there was still functional journalism, like every PR agency, right they are, they're going right now in anticipation that rfks and he got in there right for the soda war. The other thing, right, I find fascinating is RFK said no more and he can do this. He can get rid of it pretty easily, no more pharmaceutical advertising. So it's just to me, it's just.

Sullivan in Alaska is a Marine Corps colonel in his previous life. Is U S Senator? Does he think it's okay for Pete Hegseth, who's regardless of whether he raped the woman or not that he's been accused of by our of raping or right that the police reports make clear, he's a dipshit of the highest variety. Right, he shouldn't. He shouldn't. He's not eligible to be an officer in the junior class at West Point with that type of conduct. It's unbecoming. Right. So, honestly, Robert Kennedy, right, is interesting right of all of these So for example, and I this is the one. I can argue this all day. But what I'm most interested about with regard to him is is two things He's declared war on the sugar soda industry, and they're gearing up like in Washington, like right now, right if there was still functional journalism, like every PR agency, right they are, they're going right now in anticipation that rfks and he got in there right for the soda war. The other thing, right, I find fascinating is RFK said no more and he can do this. He can get rid of it pretty easily, no more pharmaceutical advertising. So it's just to me, it's just.

Fascinating, right send to play devil's advocate. What would be wrong with defenestrating the pharmaceutical industry's ability.

Fascinating, right send to play devil's advocate. What would be wrong with defenestrating the pharmaceutical industry's ability.

For it completely for it? My question would be, do you have to bring back polio and do it? Right? I don't, right, I think.

For it completely for it? My question would be, do you have to bring back polio and do it? Right? I don't, right, I think.

I think the scary thing about RFK Junior is to paint all pharmaceutical companies with a broad brush when they have developed life saving, life changing drugs that are helping people. Yes, I understand, we want to look at the core problems that are making people sick, so we don'tcessarily always have to rely on pharmaceuticals. But they've done a lot of great things like vaccines and curing polio and the HPV vaccine, et cetera, et cetera. And I think it's sort of frightening to have someone who's the head of the Department of Health and Human Services, which oversees the FDA, the CDC, the NIH, Medicare and Medicaid services. Although I guess doctor Oz is going to be doing that, But to have someone who is so anti pharmaceutical doesn't sit well with me either.

I think the scary thing about RFK Junior is to paint all pharmaceutical companies with a broad brush when they have developed life saving, life changing drugs that are helping people. Yes, I understand, we want to look at the core problems that are making people sick, so we don'tcessarily always have to rely on pharmaceuticals. But they've done a lot of great things like vaccines and curing polio and the HPV vaccine, et cetera, et cetera. And I think it's sort of frightening to have someone who's the head of the Department of Health and Human Services, which oversees the FDA, the CDC, the NIH, Medicare and Medicaid services. Although I guess doctor Oz is going to be doing that, But to have someone who is so anti pharmaceutical doesn't sit well with me either.

Well, I'm listening to you. My existence. My grandfather was a twin, and he and his twin both lost their first wives and children in childbirth. My father was his son by a second marriage. My grandfather's brother, I was a D Day paratrooper. When I met him, was in a wheelchair, not from war rooms, but from polio, which he got in the nineteen fifties. Right, suffering, suffering, Right, that default position of humanity since the beginning of time, alleviated by profound leaps forward in science. Now, for my entire political career, right, let's call it. Between age twenty five and forty, big Pharma was the target of the Democratic Party, right politically, big form of this big pharma screwing you, YadA, YadA, YadA. Now, these companies are powerful, billion dollar organizations. I have skepticism of anything big and powerful, as I know you do, so should your audience. And one of the worst ideas of the last thirty years was to put pharmaceutical advertising on television. It wasn't a lot out before. That shouldn't be allowed. And I do think that some of the fights that RFK has picked, some of his enemies have real teeth, and to have somebody who's literally nuts enough to make a full charge at them in Washington, DC is something I haven't seen over the course of my career. And I'm just as a practitioner of campaign politics who spend a lot of time in this space, in this world and has watched how it's all covered in the media as a political science experiment. I just I can't. I could, I could set up a podcast and cover it. I mean, I just it's endlessly fascinating to me.

Well, I'm listening to you. My existence. My grandfather was a twin, and he and his twin both lost their first wives and children in childbirth. My father was his son by a second marriage. My grandfather's brother, I was a D Day paratrooper. When I met him, was in a wheelchair, not from war rooms, but from polio, which he got in the nineteen fifties. Right, suffering, suffering, Right, that default position of humanity since the beginning of time, alleviated by profound leaps forward in science. Now, for my entire political career, right, let's call it. Between age twenty five and forty, big Pharma was the target of the Democratic Party, right politically, big form of this big pharma screwing you, YadA, YadA, YadA. Now, these companies are powerful, billion dollar organizations. I have skepticism of anything big and powerful, as I know you do, so should your audience. And one of the worst ideas of the last thirty years was to put pharmaceutical advertising on television. It wasn't a lot out before. That shouldn't be allowed. And I do think that some of the fights that RFK has picked, some of his enemies have real teeth, and to have somebody who's literally nuts enough to make a full charge at them in Washington, DC is something I haven't seen over the course of my career. And I'm just as a practitioner of campaign politics who spend a lot of time in this space, in this world and has watched how it's all covered in the media as a political science experiment. I just I can't. I could, I could set up a podcast and cover it. I mean, I just it's endlessly fascinating to me.

So do you think some of his desires to tackle these intractable problems like the power or the size of these big pharmaceutical bohemoths is in some ways a good thing?

So do you think some of his desires to tackle these intractable problems like the power or the size of these big pharmaceutical bohemoths is in some ways a good thing?

I think that I live in a ski town and in a city, and most people where I live, generally speaking, are in pretty good shape. If you go to Disney World or to Disneyland, you're going to find a real cross section of America. It's frightening, it's unhealthy. If you brought somebody back who is a medical doctor, who let's say passed away in nineteen sixty five, and you showed them what the American citizen looks like in his or her aggregate in twenty twenty four, what would their reaction be if we had to fight, right, we had a draft World War two. It's the physical training, level of physical fitness in the country. It's deplorable. The country is sick. And I think that that is a fair observation. A lot of it has to do with the culture, with the food people are. By the way, this isn't this isn't a European problem. This is an American problem, right. This is an American political problem. Right. This is a lot of corruption, a lot of power, a lot of in these in these industries, and so kind of crazy person observes something correctly, Does that mean that that person's observation qualifies them to fix the thing that they've observed correctly? Of course not, you know, he he is there are there are kind of a couple qualification bars in these jobs, right that, and they matter most on a sliding scale. Character, honesty, judgment. Tell me about the bear again in Central Park, about the whale, about the revelations and the diary. Now, now let's look at your your ability to process reality information. I'm going to tell you something. Okay, what I'd like from you is a response about what we should do. There's no evidence to suggest that Robert Kennedy has any capacity to know what to do in any given situation. Can't process information. It's bad judgment and a rotten character, and so he's unfit.

I think that I live in a ski town and in a city, and most people where I live, generally speaking, are in pretty good shape. If you go to Disney World or to Disneyland, you're going to find a real cross section of America. It's frightening, it's unhealthy. If you brought somebody back who is a medical doctor, who let's say passed away in nineteen sixty five, and you showed them what the American citizen looks like in his or her aggregate in twenty twenty four, what would their reaction be if we had to fight, right, we had a draft World War two. It's the physical training, level of physical fitness in the country. It's deplorable. The country is sick. And I think that that is a fair observation. A lot of it has to do with the culture, with the food people are. By the way, this isn't this isn't a European problem. This is an American problem, right. This is an American political problem. Right. This is a lot of corruption, a lot of power, a lot of in these in these industries, and so kind of crazy person observes something correctly, Does that mean that that person's observation qualifies them to fix the thing that they've observed correctly? Of course not, you know, he he is there are there are kind of a couple qualification bars in these jobs, right that, and they matter most on a sliding scale. Character, honesty, judgment. Tell me about the bear again in Central Park, about the whale, about the revelations and the diary. Now, now let's look at your your ability to process reality information. I'm going to tell you something. Okay, what I'd like from you is a response about what we should do. There's no evidence to suggest that Robert Kennedy has any capacity to know what to do in any given situation. Can't process information. It's bad judgment and a rotten character, and so he's unfit.

Well, I think, I think to your point, Robert F. Kennedy Junior is a mixed bag. I think he says some things that are true about chronic disease in this country, about pesticides, about some of the things that so on in this country that are keeping people unhealthy. On the other hand, you know, there are things that he says that are really scary about vaccines. He went to Samoa, and I don't know if you've read that story.

Well, I think, I think to your point, Robert F. Kennedy Junior is a mixed bag. I think he says some things that are true about chronic disease in this country, about pesticides, about some of the things that so on in this country that are keeping people unhealthy. On the other hand, you know, there are things that he says that are really scary about vaccines. He went to Samoa, and I don't know if you've read that story.

Killed a lot of people, kill.

Killed a lot of people, kill.

A lot of us died, and and there are other positions he has taken that are really scary too, So.

A lot of us died, and and there are other positions he has taken that are really scary too, So.

He's got let me like I just like one he will get people will die. People will die, right if someone like him runs the public health services, right, And it's like one of the things I find most curious about this era. I say, this is like a Gen X or fifty four. There's a lot more sensitivity today. Some of it's good than there used to be, but there's a real current in the culture that if you talk to somebody about consequences, there's just like a real resistance right to the concept.

He's got let me like I just like one he will get people will die. People will die, right if someone like him runs the public health services, right, And it's like one of the things I find most curious about this era. I say, this is like a Gen X or fifty four. There's a lot more sensitivity today. Some of it's good than there used to be, but there's a real current in the culture that if you talk to somebody about consequences, there's just like a real resistance right to the concept.

What do you mean.

What do you mean.

I was in a restaurant and in a waiter a couple of weeks ago, spilled four drinks on me and I didn't, but he was. He was a young guy. It's like twenty three. And the first thing he says to me, he goes, it was the tray. It was the tray, and I just I grew up in a place and in a time it wasn't the tray, it was you, Right, I wasn't mad. Shit happens. But the point is, in a world where nothing is ever anyone's fault, it's not possible. I couldn't have spilled that drink on you. It was the track. Did it, right, you know, it was the tray in this world right in which our politics takes place. Right, all of this is downrange from culture incredibly. I mean, you're in the nine to eleven Museum, Katie, that's you on the television. I remember watching it. That was the most horrible day of my adult life, watching horror, American horror on the screen. And it seems to me quarter century later, just total amnesia, right, real numbness about bad things that could happen. So, you know, we used to there used to be movies right about what would happen if there were two astronauts like stranded in space. That's happening right now. No, just as a fuck right at all? Right, right, except for like at NASA, And so what I'm saying is with all of these people is terrible, terrible things will happen. I know it will happen. It's not a debate. If you take a guy who doesn't believe in science and vaccines and medicine with a track record of doing what he did in Samoa, of course people are gonna die. Right if you politicize the American military, Trump is at hour one right, all transgender personnel or out the military. They'll be disqualified for military service. They're gonna be medically discharged, all of them. Fifteen thousand. He's going to fire the Joint Staff, right the chiefs, the Chief of Naval Operations, Linda Franchetti, Admiral Fanchetti, first woman to be Chief of Naval Operations, she's going to be out. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who was a confidant and friend of General Millet, he's going to be out. Mark Wayne Mullin just put a hold on promotion of the three star officer who's being promoted to four star rank to take over US forces in Europe. He's going to be out of the military. So you're going to see a culling of the senior leadership of the military, unlike anything that the country's seen since nineteen thirty seven, thirty eight, thirty nine, when Marshall got the military ready to fight the Second World War, and guys like Eisenhower went from lieutenant colonel to Brevett major generals overnight.

I was in a restaurant and in a waiter a couple of weeks ago, spilled four drinks on me and I didn't, but he was. He was a young guy. It's like twenty three. And the first thing he says to me, he goes, it was the tray. It was the tray, and I just I grew up in a place and in a time it wasn't the tray, it was you, Right, I wasn't mad. Shit happens. But the point is, in a world where nothing is ever anyone's fault, it's not possible. I couldn't have spilled that drink on you. It was the track. Did it, right, you know, it was the tray in this world right in which our politics takes place. Right, all of this is downrange from culture incredibly. I mean, you're in the nine to eleven Museum, Katie, that's you on the television. I remember watching it. That was the most horrible day of my adult life, watching horror, American horror on the screen. And it seems to me quarter century later, just total amnesia, right, real numbness about bad things that could happen. So, you know, we used to there used to be movies right about what would happen if there were two astronauts like stranded in space. That's happening right now. No, just as a fuck right at all? Right, right, except for like at NASA, And so what I'm saying is with all of these people is terrible, terrible things will happen. I know it will happen. It's not a debate. If you take a guy who doesn't believe in science and vaccines and medicine with a track record of doing what he did in Samoa, of course people are gonna die. Right if you politicize the American military, Trump is at hour one right, all transgender personnel or out the military. They'll be disqualified for military service. They're gonna be medically discharged, all of them. Fifteen thousand. He's going to fire the Joint Staff, right the chiefs, the Chief of Naval Operations, Linda Franchetti, Admiral Fanchetti, first woman to be Chief of Naval Operations, she's going to be out. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who was a confidant and friend of General Millet, he's going to be out. Mark Wayne Mullin just put a hold on promotion of the three star officer who's being promoted to four star rank to take over US forces in Europe. He's going to be out of the military. So you're going to see a culling of the senior leadership of the military, unlike anything that the country's seen since nineteen thirty seven, thirty eight, thirty nine, when Marshall got the military ready to fight the Second World War, and guys like Eisenhower went from lieutenant colonel to Brevett major generals overnight.

I also understand that there may be a mission to court martial some of the high ranking military official Steve who spoke ill of Donald Trump during the campaign of course I'm talking about John Kelly and Mark Milly. General Mattis did not. He did write a resignation letter, and I think sort of you could read between the lines what he was saying. But could he actually court martial some of these individuals who spoke out against him.

I also understand that there may be a mission to court martial some of the high ranking military official Steve who spoke ill of Donald Trump during the campaign of course I'm talking about John Kelly and Mark Milly. General Mattis did not. He did write a resignation letter, and I think sort of you could read between the lines what he was saying. But could he actually court martial some of these individuals who spoke out against him.

Yes, he could recall them to active service and convene a court martial under a uniform Code of Military Justice, which is the military's legal system. That is a prosecution, that is a kangaroo court prosecution all sorts of problems, including the command influence or undue influence of the commander in chief in the court martial. And of course that court martial would be tried by a jury of Millie's peers, who of course would not convict him, and it would be found not guilty. Right, So that's an example. Could Trump do it? Yeah? Is there a release valve? There is. We don't live in the Third Reich. We live in America. So Millie would go have his court martial. I think Jackie Robinson was court martialed, right, It will be as unjust as that a lot of people have faced on just court martial in the history of the military for racial reasons. A lot of them. The military justice system, though, like the American justice system, which it's much a part of, is resilton. And so you don't go to get Milly up against the wall. Millie's going to be acquitted, and with that acquittal will be a rebuke morally of the outrageousness of the action. And so that's how it works.

Yes, he could recall them to active service and convene a court martial under a uniform Code of Military Justice, which is the military's legal system. That is a prosecution, that is a kangaroo court prosecution all sorts of problems, including the command influence or undue influence of the commander in chief in the court martial. And of course that court martial would be tried by a jury of Millie's peers, who of course would not convict him, and it would be found not guilty. Right, So that's an example. Could Trump do it? Yeah? Is there a release valve? There is. We don't live in the Third Reich. We live in America. So Millie would go have his court martial. I think Jackie Robinson was court martialed, right, It will be as unjust as that a lot of people have faced on just court martial in the history of the military for racial reasons. A lot of them. The military justice system, though, like the American justice system, which it's much a part of, is resilton. And so you don't go to get Milly up against the wall. Millie's going to be acquitted, and with that acquittal will be a rebuke morally of the outrageousness of the action. And so that's how it works.

In that case. You're describing Steve guardrails that exist, but there are few and far between guardrails currently in place with a Trump presidency and a Senate controlled by Republicans, a House controlled by Republicans, and of course a Justice Department controlled by Republicans. So what are your biggest fears as you look toward these next four years?

In that case. You're describing Steve guardrails that exist, but there are few and far between guardrails currently in place with a Trump presidency and a Senate controlled by Republicans, a House controlled by Republicans, and of course a Justice Department controlled by Republicans. So what are your biggest fears as you look toward these next four years?

I guess I have a slight dissent, and I think it's a really important in distinction, which is this, The guard are exactly the same as they've ever been. They're exactly the same. Nothing has changed. Constitutions, the constitution, the votes are the votes right, All the facts of what's right, what's wrong, what's decent, what's not, what's crazy, what's not, nothing has changed. What's changed is the incentives and maybe the tolerance that a Bill Haggerty from Tennessee would go out and say, we don't for the most sensitive jobs of the US government. I don't care whatsoever who these people are, what they'll do, who they're on the payroll, if they're compromised, if they're not, don't give a shit at all. I trust Trump, And so if there are enough of those people, then Trump will get to do whatever he wants. Now, the recess appointment is a bigger deal, right, because that's a systemic assault. If you take all of these unqualified people with the acquiescence of the Senate, who seeks to evade their complete lack of fitness by evading their constitutional role, by giving away their coequal status in the American government with an acting capitulation, well, I would argue, like I said earlier, the republic has fallen, right, And it's not about Republicans and checks and bounces about whether ten to fifteen people. We know who those people are, right, we know their names. Will they process somebody right on national television that's clearly unfit? Right? I mean these people were flying a commercial jetliner. You got to leave your kid with him, right, whatever circumstance, analogy that works for you, Right, I think most people would be like those people in these positions. The great question in our politics is just, really you're going to say yes to that?

I guess I have a slight dissent, and I think it's a really important in distinction, which is this, The guard are exactly the same as they've ever been. They're exactly the same. Nothing has changed. Constitutions, the constitution, the votes are the votes right, All the facts of what's right, what's wrong, what's decent, what's not, what's crazy, what's not, nothing has changed. What's changed is the incentives and maybe the tolerance that a Bill Haggerty from Tennessee would go out and say, we don't for the most sensitive jobs of the US government. I don't care whatsoever who these people are, what they'll do, who they're on the payroll, if they're compromised, if they're not, don't give a shit at all. I trust Trump, And so if there are enough of those people, then Trump will get to do whatever he wants. Now, the recess appointment is a bigger deal, right, because that's a systemic assault. If you take all of these unqualified people with the acquiescence of the Senate, who seeks to evade their complete lack of fitness by evading their constitutional role, by giving away their coequal status in the American government with an acting capitulation, well, I would argue, like I said earlier, the republic has fallen, right, And it's not about Republicans and checks and bounces about whether ten to fifteen people. We know who those people are, right, we know their names. Will they process somebody right on national television that's clearly unfit? Right? I mean these people were flying a commercial jetliner. You got to leave your kid with him, right, whatever circumstance, analogy that works for you, Right, I think most people would be like those people in these positions. The great question in our politics is just, really you're going to say yes to that?

Are you talking about Republican senators like Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski?

Are you talking about Republican senators like Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski?

And absolutely? Of course?

And absolutely? Of course?

Of course who else comes to mind, Steve.

Of course who else comes to mind, Steve.

Sullivan in Alaska. There's been a couple of them, Mitch McConnell. Does Mitch McConnell believe that Pete Hegsa is fit to be the Secretary of Defense? I don't think he has any core right, but I don't know what he's going to do.

Sullivan in Alaska. There's been a couple of them, Mitch McConnell. Does Mitch McConnell believe that Pete Hegsa is fit to be the Secretary of Defense? I don't think he has any core right, but I don't know what he's going to do.

And he has said he felt liberated not having to be the majority leader.

And he has said he felt liberated not having to be the majority leader.

And there's nothing that makes me crazier than the sense that I would the Senate majority leader. But now I'm liberated.

And there's nothing that makes me crazier than the sense that I would the Senate majority leader. But now I'm liberated.

Now.

Now.

If you have power, you can exercise it how you wish, when you wish, for whatever cause you wish. And that's why people like John McCain when he was at his best. The issue here is right, it's not there's no there's nothing to discover. There's new bad stuff that will come out, for sure, because that's who these people are, but there's nothing right that will make them more wet, more saturated. By unfitness than they already are. So the question is, is really like Susan Collins right? And three more? Are you kidding me? Her him? Christine?

If you have power, you can exercise it how you wish, when you wish, for whatever cause you wish. And that's why people like John McCain when he was at his best. The issue here is right, it's not there's no there's nothing to discover. There's new bad stuff that will come out, for sure, because that's who these people are, but there's nothing right that will make them more wet, more saturated. By unfitness than they already are. So the question is, is really like Susan Collins right? And three more? Are you kidding me? Her him? Christine?

No, come on, I want to ask you about Pam BONDI what reasons do you think she should not be confirmed?

No, come on, I want to ask you about Pam BONDI what reasons do you think she should not be confirmed?

Because in twenty twenty three she said that the prosecutors and the Justice Department officials who prosecuted Trump should themselves be prosecuted because for revenge. We live in a nation where the rule of law is supreme. Donald Trump is prosecuted because he broke the law and he was found guilty. And then the Supreme Court held that the president has immunity, which, though is a new and novel concept and all the broad scope of American jurisprudence and history, the Court does in fact have the power to say so and to make it so, and now it is so. And so those charges have been dismissed because of the complexity, the layerings of the American justice system that always offer another opportunity unity for another look on a question of law. So I would be, despite not being someone who would ever pick him, if I was in the Senate and I had a vote, I would be like yes to Marco Rubio, I would be no to all of these other people, because there's no case to be made that these people can run these agencies, do these jobs, and these are life and death jobs. They're ludicrous appointments.

Because in twenty twenty three she said that the prosecutors and the Justice Department officials who prosecuted Trump should themselves be prosecuted because for revenge. We live in a nation where the rule of law is supreme. Donald Trump is prosecuted because he broke the law and he was found guilty. And then the Supreme Court held that the president has immunity, which, though is a new and novel concept and all the broad scope of American jurisprudence and history, the Court does in fact have the power to say so and to make it so, and now it is so. And so those charges have been dismissed because of the complexity, the layerings of the American justice system that always offer another opportunity unity for another look on a question of law. So I would be, despite not being someone who would ever pick him, if I was in the Senate and I had a vote, I would be like yes to Marco Rubio, I would be no to all of these other people, because there's no case to be made that these people can run these agencies, do these jobs, and these are life and death jobs. They're ludicrous appointments.

What I think is interesting is so many of these people have absolutely no expertise in the agencies they are being tasked to run.

What I think is interesting is so many of these people have absolutely no expertise in the agencies they are being tasked to run.

There's no difference, none, between making Pete Hegseth the Secretary of Defense and having an Apprentice episode and making Meat Love or Little John or both of them together with Gary Busey the Secretary of Defense. It's the same thing. When Donald Trump was on the Apprentice set, he assembled a menagerie of characters that coagulated there same thing. And those are the people that are his casting call him her, him, and these people right have been put forward. There are other people in the country, we call them senators. Their job is to objectively look at those people, sayon and the diplomatic way to do this, and Republicans will have to do it this way, and they should be given the space to do this by their democratic colleagues because it's good for the country. Trump can never be wrong. We've left that world.

There's no difference, none, between making Pete Hegseth the Secretary of Defense and having an Apprentice episode and making Meat Love or Little John or both of them together with Gary Busey the Secretary of Defense. It's the same thing. When Donald Trump was on the Apprentice set, he assembled a menagerie of characters that coagulated there same thing. And those are the people that are his casting call him her, him, and these people right have been put forward. There are other people in the country, we call them senators. Their job is to objectively look at those people, sayon and the diplomatic way to do this, and Republicans will have to do it this way, and they should be given the space to do this by their democratic colleagues because it's good for the country. Trump can never be wrong. We've left that world.

What will happen to some of these senators, Steve, if they vote not to confirm some of these people.

What will happen to some of these senators, Steve, if they vote not to confirm some of these people.

So what these senators their back door, of their escape patch to be able to go out and say again, because in this world Trump can never be wrong, is that Trump didn't know Trump was ill served. Trump is christ Like, he makes no mistakes ever. But there are judases around Christ, and they are judases around Trump. And it will be the Judas who is blamed, never Trump, by a Republican senator, for sending Trump into a position where Trump was humiliated. It isn't that Donald Trump knew who mack Gates was. It was that Donald Trump just found out who mack Gates was because Donald Trump was badly served. Because of course, Donald Trump is an Ajenoux. How could he have known. So it's important to appreciate the performative aspects of all of this stuff. Right, if the federal government shrank by some gigantic percentage and amount, right, they're still going to be a need to deliver food services to poor children four years from now. What's going to be left behind is the nothingness that gives democrats and progressives their golden age and golden opportunity because for the first time in a long time, they get to imagine something new, something different, how to deliver twenty first century services to people who need it without having to defend the broken institutions made in the nineteen fifties in nineteen sixties that are going to be gone right, going to be gone right by the time we get to the end of the Trump presidency. But they're not going to be gone by Elon Mosker or Ramaswami.

So what these senators their back door, of their escape patch to be able to go out and say again, because in this world Trump can never be wrong, is that Trump didn't know Trump was ill served. Trump is christ Like, he makes no mistakes ever. But there are judases around Christ, and they are judases around Trump. And it will be the Judas who is blamed, never Trump, by a Republican senator, for sending Trump into a position where Trump was humiliated. It isn't that Donald Trump knew who mack Gates was. It was that Donald Trump just found out who mack Gates was because Donald Trump was badly served. Because of course, Donald Trump is an Ajenoux. How could he have known. So it's important to appreciate the performative aspects of all of this stuff. Right, if the federal government shrank by some gigantic percentage and amount, right, they're still going to be a need to deliver food services to poor children four years from now. What's going to be left behind is the nothingness that gives democrats and progressives their golden age and golden opportunity because for the first time in a long time, they get to imagine something new, something different, how to deliver twenty first century services to people who need it without having to defend the broken institutions made in the nineteen fifties in nineteen sixties that are going to be gone right, going to be gone right by the time we get to the end of the Trump presidency. But they're not going to be gone by Elon Mosker or Ramaswami.

I'm taking away from this conversation Steve that you're pretty stoked about this incoming crew of folks.

I'm taking away from this conversation Steve that you're pretty stoked about this incoming crew of folks.

I think that was a joke, right, I think, you know, John Lewis talked about this, right, you know, I don't you know. My life overlapped with his. You know, I went to Auschwitz with lv z L on the sixtieth anniversary of its liberation when I worked in the White House. And this is the time that I was born into. I was born in nineteen seventy. I was ten years old when Ronald Reagan became president. It's a long time ago. Now. I was thirty when the millennia turned and Bill Clinton was president. We were the most powerful nation in the history of the world pre eminent in all things, to such a degree that people were saying, we're at the end of history. I've watched a lot happen over the last years, and all I can say in this moment for any American, our country's going to outlive all of us. We'll never see the whole. We're never gonna get to see the ending. We just won't, right. And I think this is like so deeply important to appreciate in the context of there are things bigger than us, and as an American, there is nothing bigger than us than the United States. And in our story, this chapter of it, I think it's exciting to be part of it and to oppose something that I think is deeply terrible, because on the other side of it is something a lot better. That's the greatness of the country. Lincoln was preceded by the worst president in American history until Trump became president. And so I think Trump is going to be a disaster, disaster, but the country will endure, damage will be done, Terrible consequences might happen, but one of the consequences that will come from the disaster ahead is greatness that will emerge from it. A greatness that didn't exist in the moment when what's to come could have been prevented. Destiny did not shape the events at hand like that. So I think in this moment, opposing what is about to come is a deep import and I'm excited to have a small voice in that effort because for me, some people are great at sports and some people love music and painting. This is what I care about. There's nothing more important to me outside of my family than the country. And what that's come to mean to me over recent years is not the partisan victory and the excitement of winning a campaign when I was a young man, but about the opportunities that everybody ought to have in a country. That ought to mean when it comes to freedom, the same thing for everybody, and that is very much on the table right now, that question. And I could not think of a better thing to do if I got a day left, a week left, or thirty five years left, than to talk about that right now, because what's been handed down to us to preserve it makes stronger for the next generation is of profound importance. There's three hundred and forty million Americans alive, half of us who have ever lived or alive right now, because there's only been seven hundred million people in all the history of the world since July fourth, seventeen seventy six who've been able to say these words that mean more to me and I think mean more to a lot of people in the country than any other association in their life. And it's this I am an American.

I think that was a joke, right, I think, you know, John Lewis talked about this, right, you know, I don't you know. My life overlapped with his. You know, I went to Auschwitz with lv z L on the sixtieth anniversary of its liberation when I worked in the White House. And this is the time that I was born into. I was born in nineteen seventy. I was ten years old when Ronald Reagan became president. It's a long time ago. Now. I was thirty when the millennia turned and Bill Clinton was president. We were the most powerful nation in the history of the world pre eminent in all things, to such a degree that people were saying, we're at the end of history. I've watched a lot happen over the last years, and all I can say in this moment for any American, our country's going to outlive all of us. We'll never see the whole. We're never gonna get to see the ending. We just won't, right. And I think this is like so deeply important to appreciate in the context of there are things bigger than us, and as an American, there is nothing bigger than us than the United States. And in our story, this chapter of it, I think it's exciting to be part of it and to oppose something that I think is deeply terrible, because on the other side of it is something a lot better. That's the greatness of the country. Lincoln was preceded by the worst president in American history until Trump became president. And so I think Trump is going to be a disaster, disaster, but the country will endure, damage will be done, Terrible consequences might happen, but one of the consequences that will come from the disaster ahead is greatness that will emerge from it. A greatness that didn't exist in the moment when what's to come could have been prevented. Destiny did not shape the events at hand like that. So I think in this moment, opposing what is about to come is a deep import and I'm excited to have a small voice in that effort because for me, some people are great at sports and some people love music and painting. This is what I care about. There's nothing more important to me outside of my family than the country. And what that's come to mean to me over recent years is not the partisan victory and the excitement of winning a campaign when I was a young man, but about the opportunities that everybody ought to have in a country. That ought to mean when it comes to freedom, the same thing for everybody, and that is very much on the table right now, that question. And I could not think of a better thing to do if I got a day left, a week left, or thirty five years left, than to talk about that right now, because what's been handed down to us to preserve it makes stronger for the next generation is of profound importance. There's three hundred and forty million Americans alive, half of us who have ever lived or alive right now, because there's only been seven hundred million people in all the history of the world since July fourth, seventeen seventy six who've been able to say these words that mean more to me and I think mean more to a lot of people in the country than any other association in their life. And it's this I am an American.

Steve Schmidt, thank you as always for talking with me. I always appreciate our conversations. Thank you, Steve.

Steve Schmidt, thank you as always for talking with me. I always appreciate our conversations. Thank you, Steve.

Great to be with you, always, always great to see you.

Great to be with you, always, always great to see you.

Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me, a subject you want us to cover, or you want to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world, reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter wake Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me, a subject you want us to cover, or you want to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world, reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter wake Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.