Hi everyone, I'm Katie Couric, and this is next question. You know, the first time many Americans got a glimpse of Senator Amy Klobachar's no nonsense confidence in action was February twenty twenty at the Democratic presidential primary debate in New Hampshire.

Hi everyone, I'm Katie Couric, and this is next question. You know, the first time many Americans got a glimpse of Senator Amy Klobachar's no nonsense confidence in action was February twenty twenty at the Democratic presidential primary debate in New Hampshire.

When we were in the last debate, Mayor, you basically mocked the one hundred years of experience on the stage. And what do I see on this stage? I see Elizabeth Work starting the consumer.

When we were in the last debate, Mayor, you basically mocked the one hundred years of experience on the stage. And what do I see on this stage? I see Elizabeth Work starting the consumer.

This is Senator Klobachar taking a then thirty eight year old Pete Buddha judge to task on something he'd said at the presidential debate in Iowa just weeks before.

This is Senator Klobachar taking a then thirty eight year old Pete Buddha judge to task on something he'd said at the presidential debate in Iowa just weeks before.

Sanders Work working to get the Veterans Bill passed across the aisle. And I see what I've done, which is to negotiate three farm bells and be someone that actually had major provisions put in those bills. So what you can dismiss committee hearings. I think this experience works. And I have not denigrated your experience as a local official.

Sanders Work working to get the Veterans Bill passed across the aisle. And I see what I've done, which is to negotiate three farm bells and be someone that actually had major provisions put in those bills. So what you can dismiss committee hearings. I think this experience works. And I have not denigrated your experience as a local official.

I have been one, you know.

I have been one, you know.

I just think you should respect our experience when you look at how you evaluate someone who can get things done.

I just think you should respect our experience when you look at how you evaluate someone who can get things done.

If you, Senator for to mayor, I'll give you a chance to respond. And Amy Klobachar knows a thing or two about getting things done. She was the first woman elected to the US Senate from Minnesota, where since two thousand and seven she has served on dozens of committees, past major bipartisan legislation and fought hard for universal healthcare, strong new environmental policies, gun control, and the regulation of big tech. But over the course of the pandemic, Senator Clobchar was faced with some very personal challenges, and through all of it she was inspired to write a book in her spare time. I guess it's called The Joy of Politics, Surviving cancer, a campaign, a pandemic, an insurrection, and life's other expected curveballs. In it, she digs deep into a well of resilience she didn't know she had, and she finds up all things joy, I mean, really joy.

If you, Senator for to mayor, I'll give you a chance to respond. And Amy Klobachar knows a thing or two about getting things done. She was the first woman elected to the US Senate from Minnesota, where since two thousand and seven she has served on dozens of committees, past major bipartisan legislation and fought hard for universal healthcare, strong new environmental policies, gun control, and the regulation of big tech. But over the course of the pandemic, Senator Clobchar was faced with some very personal challenges, and through all of it she was inspired to write a book in her spare time. I guess it's called The Joy of Politics, Surviving cancer, a campaign, a pandemic, an insurrection, and life's other expected curveballs. In it, she digs deep into a well of resilience she didn't know she had, and she finds up all things joy, I mean, really joy.

I spend a lot of this book answering that question about what is the joy. There is joy in perseverance, whether it's through an illness or whether it's through trying to get a bill through Congress.

I spend a lot of this book answering that question about what is the joy. There is joy in perseverance, whether it's through an illness or whether it's through trying to get a bill through Congress.

Senator Klobachar and I had a wide ranging conversation we even got to geek out on policy, which is something both of us love, including a fascinating dive into immigration reform.

Senator Klobachar and I had a wide ranging conversation we even got to geek out on policy, which is something both of us love, including a fascinating dive into immigration reform.

So we're in a crisis, and no great nation has ever expanded that I know of, into even greater nation with a shrinking workforce. We can try to be the first experiment, but I'd rather not do that.

So we're in a crisis, and no great nation has ever expanded that I know of, into even greater nation with a shrinking workforce. We can try to be the first experiment, but I'd rather not do that.

So how do you do that?

So how do you do that?

But my first question to her was, how on earth did you have time to write this book? Way? How are you right?

But my first question to her was, how on earth did you have time to write this book? Way? How are you right?

This is what I did?

This is what I did?

I know?

I know?

How are you doing? I how are you? Did you have fun writing?

How are you doing? I how are you? Did you have fun writing?

Yeah?

Yeah?

I wondered, how did you have time to do this?

I wondered, how did you have time to do this?

I just do it late at night and weekends, you know so I always thought every time you're quarantined for COVID.

I just do it late at night and weekends, you know so I always thought every time you're quarantined for COVID.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, that's true.

So anyway, I enjoyed writing it.

So anyway, I enjoyed writing it.

So given the state of the country, the state of the world, the personal shit excuse me, that you have been through in the last couple of years, how in the world could you write a book called The Joy of Politics?

So given the state of the country, the state of the world, the personal shit excuse me, that you have been through in the last couple of years, how in the world could you write a book called The Joy of Politics?

Good question, and it is not a sarcastic title. It is real And for me, I first look at what America's been through, the pandemic, the isolation, of all that, people have lost loved ones, they've lost their grandmas and grandpa's, people have had to change their jobs or lose jobs. There is the political divide, there's the violence that we're seeing. And through all of it, yes, we can lament the setbacks. And I go through my own from you know, not winning the presidential campaign to losing my dad with leid onset Alzheimer's and being diagnosed with breast cancer, something I know you can relate to, and all of this happening and.

Good question, and it is not a sarcastic title. It is real And for me, I first look at what America's been through, the pandemic, the isolation, of all that, people have lost loved ones, they've lost their grandmas and grandpa's, people have had to change their jobs or lose jobs. There is the political divide, there's the violence that we're seeing. And through all of it, yes, we can lament the setbacks. And I go through my own from you know, not winning the presidential campaign to losing my dad with leid onset Alzheimer's and being diagnosed with breast cancer, something I know you can relate to, and all of this happening and.

Husband deal with the serious in COVID.

Husband deal with the serious in COVID.

So we're now that is that's lamenting those setbacks, and it's important to do and realize what you've been through, but it is equally important to rejoice in the comebacks, to talk about how we get through things and how we get on the other side and the joy. And for me, it's joy in getting things done, joy in stepping back, as I'm sure you did when you got that breast cancer diagnosis or when you lost your husband. You do step back and you have this gratefulness for things that happen to you every day, total strangers helping you out. So that's part of the joy as well.

So we're now that is that's lamenting those setbacks, and it's important to do and realize what you've been through, but it is equally important to rejoice in the comebacks, to talk about how we get through things and how we get on the other side and the joy. And for me, it's joy in getting things done, joy in stepping back, as I'm sure you did when you got that breast cancer diagnosis or when you lost your husband. You do step back and you have this gratefulness for things that happen to you every day, total strangers helping you out. So that's part of the joy as well.

Have you always been a glass half full person.

Have you always been a glass half full person.

Yes, or I wouldn't have decided to run for president today, right, I haven't There the story of going to talk to Barack Obama and he looked super cool in his leather jacket. He was meeting with a number of the candidates. Didn't really endorse anyone, but it was one of the best meetings I had. I went over my chances and then in that Barack Obama understated way it goes well. When I was running, most people put it less than fifty percent that I was going to win in the Democratic primary, and there were others that put it even less. And then he went on to give me advice of just taking each day at a time, having a goal. If you don't have a north star purpose, why do it? So that conversation with him was really actually quite inspiring for me, because you when you go into these things, you know your chances are not great, but then you remember, you know, the winner of some of these last years, I think Kentucky Derby was like one out of eighty odds, so you think it can happen.

Yes, or I wouldn't have decided to run for president today, right, I haven't There the story of going to talk to Barack Obama and he looked super cool in his leather jacket. He was meeting with a number of the candidates. Didn't really endorse anyone, but it was one of the best meetings I had. I went over my chances and then in that Barack Obama understated way it goes well. When I was running, most people put it less than fifty percent that I was going to win in the Democratic primary, and there were others that put it even less. And then he went on to give me advice of just taking each day at a time, having a goal. If you don't have a north star purpose, why do it? So that conversation with him was really actually quite inspiring for me, because you when you go into these things, you know your chances are not great, but then you remember, you know, the winner of some of these last years, I think Kentucky Derby was like one out of eighty odds, so you think it can happen.

You know You've also found a lot of inspiration, I know, Senator from your fellow Senator the late Paul Wellstone, who went to my high school in Arlington. Really oh right. He is part of the Yorktown Wall of Fame, of which I am on as well, so we share this wall. He was an extraordinary man who died way too young in that prime crash. Tell me about your relationship with him and how he has inspired your attitudes.

You know You've also found a lot of inspiration, I know, Senator from your fellow Senator the late Paul Wellstone, who went to my high school in Arlington. Really oh right. He is part of the Yorktown Wall of Fame, of which I am on as well, so we share this wall. He was an extraordinary man who died way too young in that prime crash. Tell me about your relationship with him and how he has inspired your attitudes.

Sure so, no one ever thought he was going to win. He was a college professor. He went around in this green bus kind of ahead of his time, I would say, in focusing on economic justice and environmental issues. Yes, and it's kind of like the little guy. And he would talk about how we don't need another Rockefeller. I'm for the little fella. And he had this buoyancy about him and joy, and he taught me so much when he then surprisingly comes from behind wins the Senate races in the Senate, and I remember learning so much from him. For one thing, he taught me how to campaign on city buses.

Sure so, no one ever thought he was going to win. He was a college professor. He went around in this green bus kind of ahead of his time, I would say, in focusing on economic justice and environmental issues. Yes, and it's kind of like the little guy. And he would talk about how we don't need another Rockefeller. I'm for the little fella. And he had this buoyancy about him and joy, and he taught me so much when he then surprisingly comes from behind wins the Senate races in the Senate, and I remember learning so much from him. For one thing, he taught me how to campaign on city buses.

We would get on.

We would get on.

A bus and we would meet everyone on the bus. We go down what is called the Nickelet Mall, the in Minneapolis, and we would get to the end and we go buy everyone. Then we get off the bus and we just get a ticket and go on the other way. So the joy story about him, he had gone to the Senate floor and he had done lost big time some amendment and he'd made this passionate speech in his you know, five foot six frame, and he'd like and then he just lost. And he got back to the office and everyone had their heads down. They'd been watching it on the Senate TV.

A bus and we would meet everyone on the bus. We go down what is called the Nickelet Mall, the in Minneapolis, and we would get to the end and we go buy everyone. Then we get off the bus and we just get a ticket and go on the other way. So the joy story about him, he had gone to the Senate floor and he had done lost big time some amendment and he'd made this passionate speech in his you know, five foot six frame, and he'd like and then he just lost. And he got back to the office and everyone had their heads down. They'd been watching it on the Senate TV.

They knew what happened.

They knew what happened.

And he walked in and it looks around at all of them, and it would some I would say, self reckoned ignition about the humor of this, because he.

And he walked in and it looks around at all of them, and it would some I would say, self reckoned ignition about the humor of this, because he.

Was so mad, and he goes, what's going on in this room? Where is the joy? What happened to the joy?

Was so mad, and he goes, what's going on in this room? Where is the joy? What happened to the joy?

And then there's that joy of getting things done and knowing, like after working for years to pass a bill to bring down the cost of pharmaceuticals, that it finally happened, My bill finally got passed into law last summer. Or it's the joy of just being part of something bigger than yourself. That's what John McCain would always tell me. In fact, when I visited him when he was dying in Sidona, I tell the story, and he was still irascible and hilarious, and at the very end of it, when he can't talk, he points to some words that he had written, and the words where there's nothing in life more liberating than fighting for a cause larger than yourself. And I think that's something we all have to remember right now. So as people gather again, it is exhilarating to go to events. It's also can be a scary thing, but it's also a good thing because the only way we're going to go back to having civic discussions of views and differing views is if we actually talk to each other again.

And then there's that joy of getting things done and knowing, like after working for years to pass a bill to bring down the cost of pharmaceuticals, that it finally happened, My bill finally got passed into law last summer. Or it's the joy of just being part of something bigger than yourself. That's what John McCain would always tell me. In fact, when I visited him when he was dying in Sidona, I tell the story, and he was still irascible and hilarious, and at the very end of it, when he can't talk, he points to some words that he had written, and the words where there's nothing in life more liberating than fighting for a cause larger than yourself. And I think that's something we all have to remember right now. So as people gather again, it is exhilarating to go to events. It's also can be a scary thing, but it's also a good thing because the only way we're going to go back to having civic discussions of views and differing views is if we actually talk to each other again.

I know that's so true. At the same time, you know, I have to say I'm a pretty optimistic person and I would like to see people talk who disagree on issues. But as you know, and as you write about, we have created our own ecosystems based on our political beliefs. I think bridging this divide and reducing polarization is the biggest existential threat our country faces. So I mean, it's great to be optimistic and think we can talk to one another, but it's not happening on Capitol Hill.

I know that's so true. At the same time, you know, I have to say I'm a pretty optimistic person and I would like to see people talk who disagree on issues. But as you know, and as you write about, we have created our own ecosystems based on our political beliefs. I think bridging this divide and reducing polarization is the biggest existential threat our country faces. So I mean, it's great to be optimistic and think we can talk to one another, but it's not happening on Capitol Hill.

Well, so, Chris Som what you've said is just righteous, But to me. Courage isn't just standing by yourself giving some speech, yelling at everyone. Courage is whether or not you're willing to stand next to someone you don't always agree with for the betterment of this country. And in this book, I actually recount how things have happened, and it's not pretty. And I am never going to pretend that this book will stop all the anger in our politics. But when you look at what we've been through, the pandemic, the aftermath with the economy, through all of that, some incredible things happened last year, many of them bipartisan. So after years of working on infrastructure and why you know, they have high speed broadband next of spewing volcanoes in Iceland and we don't have it in Lanesboro, Minnesota, you do start wondering, maybe we can do better. And so this infrastructure bill that was a product of a number of Senators actually working together, including Center Portman and Center Cinema and so many others. We got that passed. Then you fast forward the gun safety bill. As we know from the events of this last months, from what we saw happen in Kentucky to Nashville to what just happened in Texas that our work is so far not done. There is so much more has to be done. But finally a group took on the NRI and did something about background checks and something about mental health funding. Senator Cornyn and I, in the middle of the pandemic, joined forces to save our stages, the biggest investment in the arts in the history of America, and we enlisted everyone from Pittbull to the Fargo Theater to help us get senators. And before you knew it, we had Mitch McConnell on the bill and Chuck Schumer on the bill and we were able to move it. So those are legislative examples of that. But time and time again in the book, I recount how people Roy Blunt and I the insurrection that was in our hands.

Well, so, Chris Som what you've said is just righteous, But to me. Courage isn't just standing by yourself giving some speech, yelling at everyone. Courage is whether or not you're willing to stand next to someone you don't always agree with for the betterment of this country. And in this book, I actually recount how things have happened, and it's not pretty. And I am never going to pretend that this book will stop all the anger in our politics. But when you look at what we've been through, the pandemic, the aftermath with the economy, through all of that, some incredible things happened last year, many of them bipartisan. So after years of working on infrastructure and why you know, they have high speed broadband next of spewing volcanoes in Iceland and we don't have it in Lanesboro, Minnesota, you do start wondering, maybe we can do better. And so this infrastructure bill that was a product of a number of Senators actually working together, including Center Portman and Center Cinema and so many others. We got that passed. Then you fast forward the gun safety bill. As we know from the events of this last months, from what we saw happen in Kentucky to Nashville to what just happened in Texas that our work is so far not done. There is so much more has to be done. But finally a group took on the NRI and did something about background checks and something about mental health funding. Senator Cornyn and I, in the middle of the pandemic, joined forces to save our stages, the biggest investment in the arts in the history of America, and we enlisted everyone from Pittbull to the Fargo Theater to help us get senators. And before you knew it, we had Mitch McConnell on the bill and Chuck Schumer on the bill and we were able to move it. So those are legislative examples of that. But time and time again in the book, I recount how people Roy Blunt and I the insurrection that was in our hands.

At the end of the day.

At the end of the day.

We were the ones that had to make that walk with Vice President Pi over the broken glass, passed the pillars filled with vulgarities, to finish the job and make sure that democracy prevailed. We were the ones that had to do the investigation of the security failures at the Capitol, and then ultimately the ones who made sure when everyone wanted to put the inauguration in a bunker, and many did that. We stood up and said, no, we're going to take back that platform that those insurrectionists tried to strip down, and we're going to have people of both parties, everyone from George Bush and Dan Quayle to Barack Obama and Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton on that platform to show that America peacefully passes on the torch of power.

We were the ones that had to make that walk with Vice President Pi over the broken glass, passed the pillars filled with vulgarities, to finish the job and make sure that democracy prevailed. We were the ones that had to do the investigation of the security failures at the Capitol, and then ultimately the ones who made sure when everyone wanted to put the inauguration in a bunker, and many did that. We stood up and said, no, we're going to take back that platform that those insurrectionists tried to strip down, and we're going to have people of both parties, everyone from George Bush and Dan Quayle to Barack Obama and Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton on that platform to show that America peacefully passes on the torch of power.

That was bipartisan.

That was bipartisan.

And so I don't think it's dead, and I certainly think the American people don't think democracy is withering on a vine when they turn out in record numbers to defeat election deniers, which was a real I would say, shot in the arm for those that believe in democracy, and that just in the last election.

And so I don't think it's dead, and I certainly think the American people don't think democracy is withering on a vine when they turn out in record numbers to defeat election deniers, which was a real I would say, shot in the arm for those that believe in democracy, and that just in the last election.

When we come back, you'll hear how the demanding life of a US senator doesn't stop even after a difficult diagnosis. We're back with Senator Amy Klobuchar. Isn't it shocking when you hear that sixty percent of Republicans still believe the election was not fair? I mean it, you know, I hear you, and I think eighty seven percent of Americans consider themselves centrists or moderate and you have these extreme factions on either side. But Wow, that number is shocking to me. And yes, ultimately the election deniers didn't win, but that view is still so prominent out in the United States of America despite all evidence to the contrary.

When we come back, you'll hear how the demanding life of a US senator doesn't stop even after a difficult diagnosis. We're back with Senator Amy Klobuchar. Isn't it shocking when you hear that sixty percent of Republicans still believe the election was not fair? I mean it, you know, I hear you, and I think eighty seven percent of Americans consider themselves centrists or moderate and you have these extreme factions on either side. But Wow, that number is shocking to me. And yes, ultimately the election deniers didn't win, but that view is still so prominent out in the United States of America despite all evidence to the contrary.

Well, Ronald Trump's shadow is still out there. He is still a force to be reckoned with within their party. But when you look again at the actual voting of Americans in this last midterm, people were horrified Independence turned out big time and actually voted democratic. I think Hakeem Jeffries calls them team Normal, Team America.

Well, Ronald Trump's shadow is still out there. He is still a force to be reckoned with within their party. But when you look again at the actual voting of Americans in this last midterm, people were horrified Independence turned out big time and actually voted democratic. I think Hakeem Jeffries calls them team Normal, Team America.

And I want to get that t shirt Team Normal.

And I want to get that t shirt Team Normal.

There you go, And they were making a sensible case about our democracy.

There you go, And they were making a sensible case about our democracy.

So that's I mean.

So that's I mean.

I know there's polls all over the place and like, including the one you just cited, but I just can't help but looking at the actual elections, Yeah.

I know there's polls all over the place and like, including the one you just cited, but I just can't help but looking at the actual elections, Yeah.

What happens in the end, America.

What happens in the end, America.

They may be understandably grumbling about a politician or not like a certain position or what's been happening, But in the end, when faced with do I want to have someone that actually is out there fomenting an insurrection or fomenting divides, or do I want someone that sees the hope, that wants to get things done that wants to work across the aisle, many of them tend to go to that second candidate.

They may be understandably grumbling about a politician or not like a certain position or what's been happening, But in the end, when faced with do I want to have someone that actually is out there fomenting an insurrection or fomenting divides, or do I want someone that sees the hope, that wants to get things done that wants to work across the aisle, many of them tend to go to that second candidate.

I can't help but ask you about gun violence, something that I care deeply about, and I've been pretty outspoken for years now, just because I couldn't understand after all those first graders were mowed down in Sandy Hook and the fact that I think at the time the vast majority of Americans favored sensible gun laws, and seventy four percent of the NRA actually favors sensible gun laws. Yeah, so let's talk about the assault weapons ban, because I know that Congress as it stands today, with the Republican majority in the House, could never pass another assault weapons ban. But for crying out loud, what is the argument against it?

I can't help but ask you about gun violence, something that I care deeply about, and I've been pretty outspoken for years now, just because I couldn't understand after all those first graders were mowed down in Sandy Hook and the fact that I think at the time the vast majority of Americans favored sensible gun laws, and seventy four percent of the NRA actually favors sensible gun laws. Yeah, so let's talk about the assault weapons ban, because I know that Congress as it stands today, with the Republican majority in the House, could never pass another assault weapons ban. But for crying out loud, what is the argument against it?

Well, I am from a strong hunting state. It's the way the quality of life in Minnesota. And I always look at these proposals and say, would this hurt my uncle Dick in his deer stand. My uncle Dick loved hunting, And the answer is no, they don't need AR fifteen, they don't need assault weapons. So then you go to your next question, could it practically do anything if we banned the purchase of these assault weapons.

Well, I am from a strong hunting state. It's the way the quality of life in Minnesota. And I always look at these proposals and say, would this hurt my uncle Dick in his deer stand. My uncle Dick loved hunting, And the answer is no, they don't need AR fifteen, they don't need assault weapons. So then you go to your next question, could it practically do anything if we banned the purchase of these assault weapons.

And my answer is yes. And let me give you some examples of this.

And my answer is yes. And let me give you some examples of this.

When you look at the two shootings in Uvalde, Texas or in Buffalo, when you look at those, those were both eighteen year olds who were waiting to turn eighteen and then bought an assault weapon on the internet twenty five years ago or how many years ago we had that assault weapon nine and ninety four. People weren't doing things like that. So even Center Manson has favored banning the future purchase of assault weapon bans for eighteen to twenty one year olds, you know, So you look at that, So that's one thing you can do, and then after you ban them, you could do all kinds of things with gun buybacks. There's just no reason we have to accept this as it is. So I just I go back to the fact that political movements start with individuals and what you've seen in Nashville with people pushing back when those legislators were basically pushed out and expelled from the legislature, and then their constituents said no way, and it became a national issue. No one thought that in the state of Kansas after the Dobbs decision came out, and Roe V. Wade was pushed out that in this middle of the prairie, that all these people would turn out and say no, we want our reproductive rights in more numbers than even had voted in the mid term before. That's what happened in Kansas, so people turn out to vote.

When you look at the two shootings in Uvalde, Texas or in Buffalo, when you look at those, those were both eighteen year olds who were waiting to turn eighteen and then bought an assault weapon on the internet twenty five years ago or how many years ago we had that assault weapon nine and ninety four. People weren't doing things like that. So even Center Manson has favored banning the future purchase of assault weapon bans for eighteen to twenty one year olds, you know, So you look at that, So that's one thing you can do, and then after you ban them, you could do all kinds of things with gun buybacks. There's just no reason we have to accept this as it is. So I just I go back to the fact that political movements start with individuals and what you've seen in Nashville with people pushing back when those legislators were basically pushed out and expelled from the legislature, and then their constituents said no way, and it became a national issue. No one thought that in the state of Kansas after the Dobbs decision came out, and Roe V. Wade was pushed out that in this middle of the prairie, that all these people would turn out and say no, we want our reproductive rights in more numbers than even had voted in the mid term before. That's what happened in Kansas, so people turn out to vote.

Let me talk about another issue that I cared deeply about. I wonder if you had the same experience. You and I were both diagnosed with breast cancer. We were very lucky because you were stage one. I was just I was an apartment unit when I frustrated, and we both have lumpectomies and radiation. And I just want to ask you about our healthcare system, Senator, because I couldn't help but think I am so lucky. I have the best healthcare. I live in New York City, I have the best doctors. I have good health insurance. And you know, when you think that black women have a forty percent higher mortality rate than white women from breast cancer, that so many women can't afford or don't have access to preventative screening for all kinds of cancer, is our healthcare system as screwed up as I think it is?

Let me talk about another issue that I cared deeply about. I wonder if you had the same experience. You and I were both diagnosed with breast cancer. We were very lucky because you were stage one. I was just I was an apartment unit when I frustrated, and we both have lumpectomies and radiation. And I just want to ask you about our healthcare system, Senator, because I couldn't help but think I am so lucky. I have the best healthcare. I live in New York City, I have the best doctors. I have good health insurance. And you know, when you think that black women have a forty percent higher mortality rate than white women from breast cancer, that so many women can't afford or don't have access to preventative screening for all kinds of cancer, is our healthcare system as screwed up as I think it is?

I think it has a lot of problems that need to be fixed, and some of this is pharmaceutical crisis, which does affect everyone. So if you have less money and not as good a plan, it affects you even more. If you like someone in Minnesota, kid was on our healthcare because the Affordable Care Act guaranteed that till twenty six. He turns twenty six, he's diabetic, starts rationing his insulin, which should have never been that expensive, and gets the numbers wrong and died. That mom came out to Washington as my guest to the State of the Union to make that point.

I think it has a lot of problems that need to be fixed, and some of this is pharmaceutical crisis, which does affect everyone. So if you have less money and not as good a plan, it affects you even more. If you like someone in Minnesota, kid was on our healthcare because the Affordable Care Act guaranteed that till twenty six. He turns twenty six, he's diabetic, starts rationing his insulin, which should have never been that expensive, and gets the numbers wrong and died. That mom came out to Washington as my guest to the State of the Union to make that point.

So that's part of it.

So that's part of it.

And you have seen major advancements on this in terms of finally pushing medicare and negotiation because the prices were locked in double what they are in so many countries. We have the most expensive drugs of any industrialized nation, yet our taxpayers are the ones that funded so much of the research. So I would start with that it's a total outrage, and that insurance company.

And you have seen major advancements on this in terms of finally pushing medicare and negotiation because the prices were locked in double what they are in so many countries. We have the most expensive drugs of any industrialized nation, yet our taxpayers are the ones that funded so much of the research. So I would start with that it's a total outrage, and that insurance company.

That's what I was going to get to next.

That's what I was going to get to next.

So we've finally done something on emergency medical bills so they can't just shock you in their amounts that there's limits on it, but there is more we should be doing in terms of transparency about how much things really cost, and looking at expanding medicare to go down to possibly fifty five. Those kinds of things would be a good step. And that's one of the bills that I favor.

So we've finally done something on emergency medical bills so they can't just shock you in their amounts that there's limits on it, but there is more we should be doing in terms of transparency about how much things really cost, and looking at expanding medicare to go down to possibly fifty five. Those kinds of things would be a good step. And that's one of the bills that I favor.

Did the Affordable Care Act help?

Did the Affordable Care Act help?

Yes?

Yes?

And I don't know, it just doesn't feel it feels like we've gone backwards.

And I don't know, it just doesn't feel it feels like we've gone backwards.

Well, the Affordable Care Act has made a major difference for people. Millions and millions and millions and more people got healthcare. There's absolutely no doubt about it. And if we're talking about breast cancer, millions of women now had access to that kind of screening that wasn't available to them before. That's a big, big deal. Trying to focus and use our knowledge of medicine to get those people tested more so that they have a chance to catch it early, which we all know catching it early is a key part of this. And yes, in my case, like yours, during the pandemic, I maybe wasn't quite as up to date on everything I was supposed to do, and I had waited too long. And when they first told me, oh, we just did this mammogram and it looks like there's some problems here. I said, oh, I'm sure it's fine. I promise you need to get this checked again right away, right away. And I'm like, yeah, but and I still remember the feeling as I took off that hospital gown, put on my suit, put my lipstick on, and said, I am ready to go out and do my press conference on vaccines.

Well, the Affordable Care Act has made a major difference for people. Millions and millions and millions and more people got healthcare. There's absolutely no doubt about it. And if we're talking about breast cancer, millions of women now had access to that kind of screening that wasn't available to them before. That's a big, big deal. Trying to focus and use our knowledge of medicine to get those people tested more so that they have a chance to catch it early, which we all know catching it early is a key part of this. And yes, in my case, like yours, during the pandemic, I maybe wasn't quite as up to date on everything I was supposed to do, and I had waited too long. And when they first told me, oh, we just did this mammogram and it looks like there's some problems here. I said, oh, I'm sure it's fine. I promise you need to get this checked again right away, right away. And I'm like, yeah, but and I still remember the feeling as I took off that hospital gown, put on my suit, put my lipstick on, and said, I am ready to go out and do my press conference on vaccines.

That's what I did. I just go, I promise.

That's what I did. I just go, I promise.

Well, Luckily a week later I did go back, and that was when I found out that I had this stage one A cancer and it got the call in Washington and had to go into the Senate Chamber and vote. And I think then the experience and your experience gets to be like a lot of people's experiences putting that story out there as I did in finding Out, as I discuss in the book, that other people then go in and get their own exams, which right they're guaranteed with the Affordable Care Act, by the way. That's the joy of actually getting a story out that's hard and not easy, and then other people listen, it resonates and they take care of themselves. That's a pretty good thing about using what is a really bad experience for good, and no one knows that better than you, Katie Kuric.

Well, Luckily a week later I did go back, and that was when I found out that I had this stage one A cancer and it got the call in Washington and had to go into the Senate Chamber and vote. And I think then the experience and your experience gets to be like a lot of people's experiences putting that story out there as I did in finding Out, as I discuss in the book, that other people then go in and get their own exams, which right they're guaranteed with the Affordable Care Act, by the way. That's the joy of actually getting a story out that's hard and not easy, and then other people listen, it resonates and they take care of themselves. That's a pretty good thing about using what is a really bad experience for good, and no one knows that better than you, Katie Kuric.

You know, I think everyone has to shout it from the mountaintops because too few people are still getting screened for so many diseases that it really is the difference between life and death if these cancers are detected early. And so thank you for being so public about your situation. It makes a huge difference.

You know, I think everyone has to shout it from the mountaintops because too few people are still getting screened for so many diseases that it really is the difference between life and death if these cancers are detected early. And so thank you for being so public about your situation. It makes a huge difference.

Yes, And I tried to do it as horrible as the whole thing is, with some humor of the situation as well, that you can get through it. Including one of my best stories was I'm waiting to get what I thought was a lumpact to me and I'm laying I've got this target literally drawn on my breast. I'm wearing those you know, hospital thing over me. And this woman comes over and says, hey, Senator. She goes, could I talk to you about Burma. There's some really bad things happening, and I happen to know a lot about it, and I go, I go, yes, I know. She goes, yeah, but it's getting worse here and there's a lot of refugees.

Yes, And I tried to do it as horrible as the whole thing is, with some humor of the situation as well, that you can get through it. Including one of my best stories was I'm waiting to get what I thought was a lumpact to me and I'm laying I've got this target literally drawn on my breast. I'm wearing those you know, hospital thing over me. And this woman comes over and says, hey, Senator. She goes, could I talk to you about Burma. There's some really bad things happening, and I happen to know a lot about it, and I go, I go, yes, I know. She goes, yeah, but it's getting worse here and there's a lot of refugees.

Ten ho minutes, okay, on and on, but I go, look.

Ten ho minutes, okay, on and on, but I go, look.

I want to help you but I don't on my phone because I'm going into the surgery and they've taken away. But I do want to help you. And so now they're wheeling me away and they put the anesthesian and I.

I want to help you but I don't on my phone because I'm going into the surgery and they've taken away. But I do want to help you. And so now they're wheeling me away and they put the anesthesian and I.

Know I'm talking about all though she's now left.

Know I'm talking about all though she's now left.

But most people like count sleep. They say, think of peaceful things. All I'm saying over and over in my head, so I won't to forget is don't forget Burma.

But most people like count sleep. They say, think of peaceful things. All I'm saying over and over in my head, so I won't to forget is don't forget Burma.

Don't forget Burma. Don't forget Burma.

Don't forget Burma. Don't forget Burma.

Then I wake up hours later and my husband's there and I look at him and he goes the first thing I do say, was it a lumpectomy or mess sectomy? Because I've given them permission to do that, and you don't know what's going to happen. He goes to his a lumpectomy, and I'm feeling kind of sick for the anesthesia. I go, okay, good, Then could you give me my phone? I got to write the stuff about Burma. And then he said, well, I guess you're okay. Then, oh, when you get the call, and then you got to walk into the Senate to all those people in that room and they're just like telling you way why aren't you on this bill? Well, you can't do that. You can't do that.

Then I wake up hours later and my husband's there and I look at him and he goes the first thing I do say, was it a lumpectomy or mess sectomy? Because I've given them permission to do that, and you don't know what's going to happen. He goes to his a lumpectomy, and I'm feeling kind of sick for the anesthesia. I go, okay, good, Then could you give me my phone? I got to write the stuff about Burma. And then he said, well, I guess you're okay. Then, oh, when you get the call, and then you got to walk into the Senate to all those people in that room and they're just like telling you way why aren't you on this bill? Well, you can't do that. You can't do that.

It does kind of give you a new perspectives on the things matter.

It does kind of give you a new perspectives on the things matter.

And I can't tell any of these people about this because one of them will tell the press and I'll have no privacy.

And I can't tell any of these people about this because one of them will tell the press and I'll have no privacy.

I've got to wait.

I've got to wait.

Tell the story is mine, right, and I can tell it myself, which I did. And so that's another weird thing to be in the public light as you are, and then trying to figure out how you're going to be able to have your own private thing with your family, which I felt like, you know, we handled, we know pretty well.

Tell the story is mine, right, and I can tell it myself, which I did. And so that's another weird thing to be in the public light as you are, and then trying to figure out how you're going to be able to have your own private thing with your family, which I felt like, you know, we handled, we know pretty well.

When we come back, Amy Klobuchar reveals what you're not supposed to sneak into a presidential debate, even though a lot of then do. That's right after this. If you want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. We're back with Senator Amy Klobachar. You know I'm so interested in policy. I could talk to you about policy all day long. Senator, Can we just touch on what's going on with immigration real quickly only because it's so time right now tell.

When we come back, Amy Klobuchar reveals what you're not supposed to sneak into a presidential debate, even though a lot of then do. That's right after this. If you want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. We're back with Senator Amy Klobachar. You know I'm so interested in policy. I could talk to you about policy all day long. Senator, Can we just touch on what's going on with immigration real quickly only because it's so time right now tell.

Us with this change in policy that it had been put in place because of the pandemic Title Title forty two. We're now through the pandemic. So that changes to solutions here. One of them is to process people not on the border but back in places like Guatemala and Honduras where so many of these asylum seekers in El Salvador and other places are coming from.

Us with this change in policy that it had been put in place because of the pandemic Title Title forty two. We're now through the pandemic. So that changes to solutions here. One of them is to process people not on the border but back in places like Guatemala and Honduras where so many of these asylum seekers in El Salvador and other places are coming from.

To do that.

To do that.

The other one is to have immigration reform. And I cannot tell you how much we need this because in the Northern States we actually are down to in some cases two three percent unemployment. We don't have enough ag workers, we don't have enough tourism people, we don't have enough people in healthcare. There's in especially in some of these rural states. Its nursing homes are closing down. So how do you do that legally to make this work and be able to vet people. You do that with a more robust legal immigration system, so you're letting people in with vetting more straightforwardly, so you don't have situations like we have where we bring people in and it works with our corn growers or planting or do producers. We have a ton of people come in America, including my state like that. Well right now a number of them are just deciding to go work in Canada. Why we have a rule in place that their spouse can oh so work for five years when they are here on work permits, they have been vetted. But we make it so hard and so difficult that it's easier to go work in other countries. We need to make the legal part of this work better and then we can put more resources at the border. But to think we're just going to close off our country and not bring in immigrants legally, our country was built on immigrants. Immigrants don't diminish America. They are America.

The other one is to have immigration reform. And I cannot tell you how much we need this because in the Northern States we actually are down to in some cases two three percent unemployment. We don't have enough ag workers, we don't have enough tourism people, we don't have enough people in healthcare. There's in especially in some of these rural states. Its nursing homes are closing down. So how do you do that legally to make this work and be able to vet people. You do that with a more robust legal immigration system, so you're letting people in with vetting more straightforwardly, so you don't have situations like we have where we bring people in and it works with our corn growers or planting or do producers. We have a ton of people come in America, including my state like that. Well right now a number of them are just deciding to go work in Canada. Why we have a rule in place that their spouse can oh so work for five years when they are here on work permits, they have been vetted. But we make it so hard and so difficult that it's easier to go work in other countries. We need to make the legal part of this work better and then we can put more resources at the border. But to think we're just going to close off our country and not bring in immigrants legally, our country was built on immigrants. Immigrants don't diminish America. They are America.

And yet immigration is so weaponized, particularly by the far right in this country, that it seems unlikely that there will be immigration reform. Do you think it's going to happen.

And yet immigration is so weaponized, particularly by the far right in this country, that it seems unlikely that there will be immigration reform. Do you think it's going to happen.

I think something is going to have to happen because of this weird dual problem. You've got problems at the border, but you also have problems of not having enough legal immigration. Grover Norquist favored immigration reform because it brought the debt down in ten years by over one hundred and fifty billion dollar because people are finally paying into taxes and things instead of working in the shadows. So some of this money can be used to figure out what is real and what's not when processing these cases. And one of the things that I note in the book is just that some of these long term issues have just festered, but in this book I actually have solutions to some of this, in addition to some very fun stories about the presidential debates.

I think something is going to have to happen because of this weird dual problem. You've got problems at the border, but you also have problems of not having enough legal immigration. Grover Norquist favored immigration reform because it brought the debt down in ten years by over one hundred and fifty billion dollar because people are finally paying into taxes and things instead of working in the shadows. So some of this money can be used to figure out what is real and what's not when processing these cases. And one of the things that I note in the book is just that some of these long term issues have just festered, but in this book I actually have solutions to some of this, in addition to some very fun stories about the presidential debates.

Just as we enter a presidential DIBt.

Just as we enter a presidential DIBt.

Actually, that's great segue because you talk a lot about your twenty twenty presidential bid, which fittingly is the senior Senator of Minnesota was launched in the middle of a blizzard. As listened. Because it's funny.

Actually, that's great segue because you talk a lot about your twenty twenty presidential bid, which fittingly is the senior Senator of Minnesota was launched in the middle of a blizzard. As listened. Because it's funny.

Now, we don't let a little snow stop us. We don't let a little cold stops like, are you guys even cold?

Now, we don't let a little snow stop us. We don't let a little cold stops like, are you guys even cold?

Tell the troth.

Tell the troth.

Now, when I said that elected leaders should go not just where it's comfortable, but also where it's uncomfortable, this is what I meant as the first woman elected to the United States Senate from the state of Minnesota to announce my canadacy for President of United State. Memories Memories of hoping that no one would freeze. Memories of we had to start bonfires so that there would be like, literally no one freezing. It was supposed to be cold, but it wasn't supposed to snow. And while it was this beautiful backdrop, there were people that were literally encrusted in snow. Then out in the crowd was my which I recount in the book, the woman who has cut and colored my hair for decades named b and she'd come out early and she was like, you know, she'd done my hair right before I went out there, and she was later told me she was out there praying, and I said, oh, Bie, you didn't have to go out there was so nice of being and you know, I'm going to be fine. We've got this great team. She goes, no, no, it was that bad intersection of a blizzard and a haircut, and she goes, you didn't notice, but I saw some gray coming in on your part, and I took a bunch of brown stuff and I sprayed it on there. And I was sitting out in the crowd, thinking, oh my god, it's going to start dribbling down her face, which yes, I note him in a footnote. I note that he needed to be, but he needed a lot more than that because he wasn't even in a blizzard like I was. So you know, that never happened, but it was truly a joyous thing, and our odds were slim, but it was important for me to make the case. When I look back at that speech, it meets the test of time. I was talking about workforce, I was talking about immigration reform. I was focused on technology, which many of my opponents were not talking about the need to put rules of the road in place when it comes to tech companies. And it was about bringing our country together, crossing the river of our divides, and the metaphor of the Mississippi River running through our country all the way from Minnesota to Louisiana to New Orleans, the place of our resilience in that our country was resilient.

Now, when I said that elected leaders should go not just where it's comfortable, but also where it's uncomfortable, this is what I meant as the first woman elected to the United States Senate from the state of Minnesota to announce my canadacy for President of United State. Memories Memories of hoping that no one would freeze. Memories of we had to start bonfires so that there would be like, literally no one freezing. It was supposed to be cold, but it wasn't supposed to snow. And while it was this beautiful backdrop, there were people that were literally encrusted in snow. Then out in the crowd was my which I recount in the book, the woman who has cut and colored my hair for decades named b and she'd come out early and she was like, you know, she'd done my hair right before I went out there, and she was later told me she was out there praying, and I said, oh, Bie, you didn't have to go out there was so nice of being and you know, I'm going to be fine. We've got this great team. She goes, no, no, it was that bad intersection of a blizzard and a haircut, and she goes, you didn't notice, but I saw some gray coming in on your part, and I took a bunch of brown stuff and I sprayed it on there. And I was sitting out in the crowd, thinking, oh my god, it's going to start dribbling down her face, which yes, I note him in a footnote. I note that he needed to be, but he needed a lot more than that because he wasn't even in a blizzard like I was. So you know, that never happened, but it was truly a joyous thing, and our odds were slim, but it was important for me to make the case. When I look back at that speech, it meets the test of time. I was talking about workforce, I was talking about immigration reform. I was focused on technology, which many of my opponents were not talking about the need to put rules of the road in place when it comes to tech companies. And it was about bringing our country together, crossing the river of our divides, and the metaphor of the Mississippi River running through our country all the way from Minnesota to Louisiana to New Orleans, the place of our resilience in that our country was resilient.

So that was the theme of it.

So that was the theme of it.

And we went from there to town halls in Iowa and casino basements in Nevada and debates and unbelievable events all over the country. And one of the things that can happen when you're running for president, especially in a crowded primary, you can start to hate.

And we went from there to town halls in Iowa and casino basements in Nevada and debates and unbelievable events all over the country. And one of the things that can happen when you're running for president, especially in a crowded primary, you can start to hate.

The people you're running against. Or like them, and I actually grew to like them more.

The people you're running against. Or like them, and I actually grew to like them more.

I loved the fact that in one night in Miami, we doubled the number of women ever on either party's presidential debate stage in one night, and we showed the world that women who were running from Elizabeth to kom to me Kearston, that the women look different, they wore different clothes, they came from different parts of the country, and here's what's most important, they had different views and they could debate each other. So that was a cool thing on its own, But my fondest memories were those debate stages where just the craziest things happened. The best of all was in la when I had Bernie was to my right, which alone was funny. People are scribbling down their notes and I'm doing it all like you're writing what you're going to say, Statistics, you want to use, lines, you want to use. My pen just explodes, and it's the one they've given us. I turned to Bernie elbowm I'm like, I need a pen. Now he's using his, and he takes his pen out. We were never supposed to bring in pens, but this is the day I realized all the men could just hide these pens in their pockets. So he takes out one for himself, gives me his debate pen. I start using the same one and it breaks down too. Then I turned to Styre on my left. He luckily has one his own pen, gives me. I'm finally able to write the notes, and I just want to thank those guys because that debate was one of my best ones.

I loved the fact that in one night in Miami, we doubled the number of women ever on either party's presidential debate stage in one night, and we showed the world that women who were running from Elizabeth to kom to me Kearston, that the women look different, they wore different clothes, they came from different parts of the country, and here's what's most important, they had different views and they could debate each other. So that was a cool thing on its own, But my fondest memories were those debate stages where just the craziest things happened. The best of all was in la when I had Bernie was to my right, which alone was funny. People are scribbling down their notes and I'm doing it all like you're writing what you're going to say, Statistics, you want to use, lines, you want to use. My pen just explodes, and it's the one they've given us. I turned to Bernie elbowm I'm like, I need a pen. Now he's using his, and he takes his pen out. We were never supposed to bring in pens, but this is the day I realized all the men could just hide these pens in their pockets. So he takes out one for himself, gives me his debate pen. I start using the same one and it breaks down too. Then I turned to Styre on my left. He luckily has one his own pen, gives me. I'm finally able to write the notes, and I just want to thank those guys because that debate was one of my best ones.

I can't let you go without turning to twenty twenty four briefly. Sure, there has been and this is not a surprise question, Senator, a lot of concern about Joe Biden's age, and do you think that's a legitimate concern.

I can't let you go without turning to twenty twenty four briefly. Sure, there has been and this is not a surprise question, Senator, a lot of concern about Joe Biden's age, and do you think that's a legitimate concern.

I think what the legitimate issue is who is going to continue moving this country forward? And Joe Biden has shown that his experience has been a good thing, that the people he's put in have been fantastic in these cabinet positions, and that he's moved us out of this pandemic. He has brought dignity back into the White House. And I just think in the end, when independence and modern Republicans look at this, and as you look at Jnald Trump's support that's growing with the magabase of their party. They're going to look at this and say, no, we don't want to go back to that chaos and hate and divisiveness. And that's how I that's why I'm supporting Joe, and that's why I think he will win this race.

I think what the legitimate issue is who is going to continue moving this country forward? And Joe Biden has shown that his experience has been a good thing, that the people he's put in have been fantastic in these cabinet positions, and that he's moved us out of this pandemic. He has brought dignity back into the White House. And I just think in the end, when independence and modern Republicans look at this, and as you look at Jnald Trump's support that's growing with the magabase of their party. They're going to look at this and say, no, we don't want to go back to that chaos and hate and divisiveness. And that's how I that's why I'm supporting Joe, and that's why I think he will win this race.

Can the country survive another Biden Trump election?

Can the country survive another Biden Trump election?

Honestly, country survived a lot, and we still don't know who the candidate is going to be on the other side. But you believe, don't you that it's probably going to be Donald Trump right now? If you looked at the pure numbers, you'd believe that. But there are going to be a lot of things. As I learned in my primary campaign, there's a lot of twists and turns that the road takes on the way there. There really are, And so many of our candidates who people thought were the front runner in other elections on both sides of the aisle, ended up not being the front runner in the end. So I don't think that's a given at all. Would you ever run for president again? I am focused on supporting this president and my work in the send It, And as you have pointed out by many of your questions, we have a lot on our plate and a lot to do, Amy Klovichar, it's so great to talk to you. Your book is called The Joy of Politics, and it's fun. It's fun and joyful surviving cancer, a campaign, a pandemic, an insurrection, and life's other unexpected curveballs, and boy, there have been plenty of them for you and for the country. Thank you, Katie, Thanks Ane, It's been great to be Can I call you Amy?

Honestly, country survived a lot, and we still don't know who the candidate is going to be on the other side. But you believe, don't you that it's probably going to be Donald Trump right now? If you looked at the pure numbers, you'd believe that. But there are going to be a lot of things. As I learned in my primary campaign, there's a lot of twists and turns that the road takes on the way there. There really are, And so many of our candidates who people thought were the front runner in other elections on both sides of the aisle, ended up not being the front runner in the end. So I don't think that's a given at all. Would you ever run for president again? I am focused on supporting this president and my work in the send It, And as you have pointed out by many of your questions, we have a lot on our plate and a lot to do, Amy Klovichar, it's so great to talk to you. Your book is called The Joy of Politics, and it's fun. It's fun and joyful surviving cancer, a campaign, a pandemic, an insurrection, and life's other unexpected curveballs, and boy, there have been plenty of them for you and for the country. Thank you, Katie, Thanks Ane, It's been great to be Can I call you Amy?

Yes, that's what most of my constituents call me.

Yes, that's what most of my constituents call me.

Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me, or want to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world reach out. You can leave a short message at six oh nine five point two five to five oh five, or you can send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Meet, Katie Couric and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Marcy Thompson. Our producers are Adrianna Fazzio and Catherine Law. Our audio engineer is Matt Russell, who also composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me, or want to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world reach out. You can leave a short message at six oh nine five point two five to five oh five, or you can send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Meet, Katie Couric and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Marcy Thompson. Our producers are Adrianna Fazzio and Catherine Law. Our audio engineer is Matt Russell, who also composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.