Next Question with Katie CouricWhen it comes to priorities, Julia-Louis Dreyfus has had hers in place for a long time. As a young mother when she played Elaine Benes on Seinfeld, Julia had to figure out how to separate the demands of working on set, from the demands of being a committed parent. Even so, she tells Katie, “Being a mother who is working outside the home is a bitch. It’s very difficult to do both well.” On this episode of Next Question, Katie and Julia discuss the challenges of maintaining a healthy sense of self worth — a central theme of Julia’s new movie, You Hurt my Feelings. They also candidly discuss the ways that older women feel “liberated” from these concerns, as Julia has learned from her new hit podcast, Wiser Than Me (hint: they “don’t give a shit”).
Julia Louis-Dreyfus is the host of the new podcast Wiser Than Me produced by Lemonada Media.
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Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question. You know, it's hard to believe, but Julia Louis Dreyfus has been in the public eye for more than forty years. What the hell it's been forty years? Yes, it has, and I for one have loved every minute of being entertained by her. In fact, she's kind of my girl crush. She started out on SNL back in the early eighties and became a household name on Seinfeld as the quirky, adorable and feisty Elaine Bennis, which was epic. Of course. She went on to star in the New Adventures of Old Christine before becoming the hapless Selena Myers in Veep, one of my all time favorite shows. Oh and she's also made a couple dozen movies, including her latest You Hurt My Feelings. In this movie, Julia plays a writer who discovers that, despite his claims her her husband really doesn't like her second book, a novel. So we see a side of Julia we often don't, vulnerable and confused and not quite sure of herself.
It explores the idea of self worth and work and how are they connected? If they are connected? The character that I play Beth, her self worth plummets.
Julia and I sat down to gab about the highs and lows of her four decade career, her new movie, her new hip podcast, and what she's learned about maintaining a healthy relationship with her own self worth. I'm really happy to see you, Julia. How are you.
I'm well, thank you. I'm so happy to see you with your nice blown out hair.
Thank you very much. Yes, we've been discussing our hair, and you know, there's nothing like a fresh blowout, is there.
It's a very good feeling. It's like it's like a you get a full tank of gas from it.
Right anyway, But I'm happy to see you because we have a lot to talk about. First of all, welcome to our little podcast. Next question, and I'm excited to talk about your podcast. But first I want to talk about your new movie, which I love and you know I love everything you're in. Julia.
Oh, Katie, thanks, It's true.
It's true. Do you like doing interviews about your work or do you feel like I have to do this.
I sort of have a mixed relationship with my with doing press, Like sometimes it feels like it's like either all or nothing. Yeah, And so when there's a tonage, it can get a little bit. It's sort of like running for office, you know, you have your stump speech.
Very Selena, Yeah.
Very Selena. But then there are circumstances in which I really do and I mean I'm very happy to be talking to you, or I'm happy to be talking to you know, like if I'm doing Fresh Air or something like that, right, more of an in depth conversation, and I'm happy to do that. And in this case because I'm proud of the movie, so I feel a sense of you know, ownership about it, and I want people to see it.
Right, And you have to get the word out, Julia, right, I mean there's so much content out there now.
Well, there's not a lot of content like this, that is to say, indie films in theaters. You know, since the pandemic, the indie film market has taken a big hit. And so I'm very pleased that it's done as well as it has, so all the more reason to get the word out.
Well, let's talk about the movie. You've teamed up once again with your friend Nicole holl Off center and you all met when you made the movie enough, said James Gandalfeeni's last film, which I love too, and that was ten years ago. So how much fun did you have working with her again? And how did this project come about?
I mean, honestly, Nicole and I have been searching for a project to work on together in those ten years, and projects would come up, but because of my schedule or her schedule or whatever, we could never line up quite right. But we have always stayed in touch with one another. And we were having lunch one day and she said she had this germ of an idea about a woman who was a writer who had written her second book, and she's in a long term, happy marriage, and her husband has told her how much she loves it. He loves it, he loves it, and then she overhears him saying that he hates it. And she told me that premise, and I just about fell off my chair because I immediately understood what that devastation might feel like and saw it as a devastation and an interesting way to investigate a relationship. And so then she wrote it and it was it's just a beautiful script from the get go, and awfully went.
I love the way it feels like you're a fly in the wall in a family that you can imagine. You know, now that I live in New York and the movie takes place in New York, you think, oh, these might be my neighbors. And totally what I loved is the dialogue, because I thought it was so interesting, Julia, when you'd be having a conversation and I'd sort of laugh because I think, this is such a natural conversation. This is the way a conversation would go in real life. For example, when you're talking to your son Elliott about something very serious and then he says, Mom, do we have any bagels?
Right?
And I thought, this is actually real life and the way people talk in real life.
Yes, yes, it's true. And that's a credit to Nicole's writing and her voice. That's what she's trying to capture, and she does so elegantly in her work.
The movie, to me, Julia, is about sort of the lies we tell each other in order to spare people's feelings, the things that we do and say that aren't necessarily true. But I'm curious what you think the movie is really about and some of the things that it opens up about relationships and families and marriage, et cetera.
Well, I think the movie's about a multitude of things because the character that I play, Beth, when she hears her husband saying how much she doesn't like her book, and she questions her self worth, and she questions the past and what she's written in the past, and so her confidence is at an all time low. And by the way, she's not the only character who's questioning. There are multiple characters in the movie who are having tiny, little crises with their work. Actually, all of the characters, pardon me, every single character is her sister, Sarah is. She's an interior designer. She's questioning the value of her work. Her brother in law is an actor, he's questioning whether or not he wants to be an actor. And her husband is a therapist and is beginning to wonder if he actually is a good therapist.
And her son and her son.
Yeah, and her son is like trying to find his way and working in a pot store but wants to be a writer and trying to figure that out. So it's these all these little internal struggles that are well they're little, but they're also pretty big. So the movie's about that, and it's also about trust and love and honesty and communication.
Also about parenting you're parentinge of Elliott, but also Jeanie Berlin, who plays your mom, Yes, the parenting you experienced with your mom, and also your father, who berated you and who was verbally abusive and who obviously planted the seed of self doubt and insecurity. I love Jeanie Berlin. Oh my god, I can't even tell you. I loved her so much in The Heartbreak Kid. I was sitting at that diner eating the egg solid sandwich and chewing with her mouth full. Oh, I just and Charles Groden's expression, oh, how can you ever forget that? But I love seeing Jeanie Berlin kind of having a renaissance right now. But it's in some ways a quiet movie because obviously it's not about superheroes, it's not action packed. It's a quiet movie based on relationships and dialogue. And these movies are hard to get made, aren't they, Julia?
They are? They are? Katie?
And why is that?
Well? As I said before, I think the landscape has changed. The pandemic really hit the independent film industry really hard. I'm not smart enough to sort of hypothesize about the ins and outs of the business of film, but I do know that that's a fact.
But you know, Nicole said that this was based on a real fear of hers that the people she loved the most would not respect her or her work. And I'm wondering if that is something that has eaten at you through your life, especially because you and Brad obviously have been married for a long time. He is in the same business. He's in showbiz, as they say, And has that ever been something that you've thought about or worried about.
I've certainly been really lucky, Katie, but I've had a few things that didn't work quite as well as I'd hoped that were disappointments. I don't know. I rely on the people very close to me whose opinions I respect. I rely on there put and then everything outside of that for me anyway is I don't give too much way too, you know, And I try to work really hard on that, both positively and negatively, because you can't just say I'm not listening to the negative things I think that the you know, like with reviews, for example, I really try to put distance between myself and criticism. Yeah, just so I can focus.
On work, And do you feel like Brad is honest with you? If he would he say, oh honey, this is a stinker, I don't think you should do this, or gosh, it didn't really turn out as we were hoping it would.
Yeah he's honest. Yeah, Yeah, he's honest. And I feel like I'm honest with him, and sometimes that can be challenging. I mean, I'm sure you have that in your relationship, right, I mean, who doesn't. But I think the key is, of course, kindness.
And knowing that person always has your back, you know, even if they are critical, or even if they're honest. And it hurts your feelings, if it comes from the right place.
If it comes from the right place, there's space for recovery. Yeah, and there's also space to hear it too.
How does Julia keep a healthy separation between her work life and personal life. We'll find out right after this we're back with Julia Louis Dreyfus, who has a new film called You Hurt My Feelings. You know, I'm curious about how you handle your sense of worth connected to your work, because I think I felt that for so long and when I stop being on TV every day, it was a real struggle for me because my identity was so associated not only with the persona I had and the job I had, but also the cadence of my life that existed when I did those jobs. How do you separate yourself from your work and not let it consume you.
Well, I don't always do it successfully, but I think something that I am pretty good at doing is compartmentalization. And also, I have to say something else too. When I was in seinfeld back in the day, and that was obviously the first really big, huge hit I'd ever been a part of. I had both of my kids at that time during the run of that show, and it really slammed priorities into place. And I think they've been in place ever since. I mean, I don't mean they weren't in place prior to that, but there was something bigger and more critical to focus on. That was a good life lesson.
I feel like I've known you for a while and since those days, Katie Ye Seinfelds and I have always admired your ability to build a rich and fulfilling life outside of your work.
But I think the same is true of you too, Katie. I mean, you've been your focus on your family and you've had, you know, your huge share of challenges along the way, and you strike me as somebody who sort of knows to the grindstone when it comes to priorities and focus. And I see that. I think that's actually why we're friends outside of this podcast. I mean, I think we have that connection with one another.
Right, Yes, I think so too. I think we're kind of two peas in a pod that way.
Yeah, yeah, I do too. And having said that too, at the same time, I would also add that being a mother who is working outside the home is a bitch and very difficult to do both well, you know. I mean, it's an incredibly daunting task we have as women working outside the home women, right and I anyway, that's another little piece I'll throw in.
I also get the sense, and you can correct me if I'm wrong that Brad was a very involved parent and is very much an equal partner.
You know.
Now my girls are older, so I don't really need it with John so much, but Jay was very much an equal parent to me, and that makes a huge difference.
Huge huge. Yeah, you're not shouldering at all yourself.
Let's talk about beet for a second. Just because I still watch it when I just you're it's sort of comfort food for me to watch a beef that and Sex and the City. Do you miss doing that show, Juliet.
I'll do, Katie, I really do you do?
Was that your best TV experience? You think?
Yes it was?
And what was it about that? I mean, obviously Seinfeld was kind of your breakout role as Elaine, but with Beep you were front and center. What was it that special kismet of Beep that made it just such a perfect place for you for those years?
Gosh, it was so many things, but you certainly touched on one, which was it was absolutely the most extraordinary ensemble of actors, and it was a big ensemble, and then additionally it was an incredible group of writers, so it felt like a big team. And I also felt like we were playing in an area that hadn't been played in before, and I had a real, you know, a pride of ownership about that show. And then the other thing is is that towards the end of Veep, I got breast cancer, as you know, and we had to shut down for roughly a year a little under and so going back to Veep after having gone through those travails was particularly cherishable.
It must have been so moving when you got that first day back on the set. Can you describe it?
It was like coming home. It was very familiar, yes, and trying not to cry a lot, of course, because we're trying to be We're trying to do a satire. It was a very uh close nick group of people, and I was I was proud of the fact that so many people got to shine and excel and it was just great. It was just like a great mash up of everything was It was a dream. It was a dream. Gig.
Tell me about how you're feeling now. Of course, I was diagnosed with breast cancer gosh about a year ago, which seems insane. And I didn't have to have chemotherapy. I was diagnosed at stage one A. I think you were stage two, so you did have to go through chemotherapy. And I'm assuming you're feeling great. Are you on those goddamn aromatase inhibitors like I am?
I sure fucking am. Yeah.
I feel like we need to talk more about that for other women, because I think it takes a toll on us. I mean, I love estrogen. I miss estrogen. It's actually a mood elevator that helps your skin. It keeps you moist everywhere, correct, all of it.
It's like the most fabulous hormone unless you get cancer and then it's not right.
And now you have to take these things to suppress any estrogen in your body because it might feed any cancer that might be floating around, which is tough. How are you doing on them, and how are you feeling sort of in general.
I'm feeling really fine. I'm feeling really well. I'm like six years out now, which is fantastic. Touch wood, and yeah, my life is sort of I'm going to say, back to normal, with the exception of my body. It's a little bit different because of those drugs that we're both on, and there are drawbacks to them. And you know, I can definitely tell that I've aged more in the last six years, like I'm seeing it, and I'm sure that's because of estrogen. You know, I can see it in I can see it my skin, you know. Yeah, but anyway, you know better that than the other thing.
Well, I'm glad you're feeling well.
Thank you. I'm glad you're feeling well too.
And of course this is something I'm working on is to make sure that women of all socioeconomic backgrounds have access to the kind of superb medical care we have access to. And I'm working very hard on getting legislation passed on Capitol Hill that will require insurance companies to pay for breast ultrasounds or MRIs for women with dense breasts. And that's forty five percent of women who are forty and over. And I don't know about you, but I kept thinking as I was going through this, I'm so lucky that I have access to this high quality healthcare. And I actually felt guilty and terrible that just too many women don't. And that is criminal.
It's criminal. And I had exactly the same reaction when I was diagnosed, which was Jesus Christ, this is terrifying. But I have health insurance. If I didn't, right, what if I didn't? And by the way, even with health insurance, it's still a bit of a trick sometimes to get certain things covered. And I know a lot of women who have health insurance. For example, if they get a mastectomy, reconstruction isn't necessarily covered by the insurance.
What the hell, I know, it's crazy.
Yeah, So I'm really glad that you're doing what you're doing to help get legislation through, because it's inhumane not to have the coverage.
When we come back, this funny lady actually gets teary eyed when talking about interviewing her all time favorite comedian Carol Burnett. If you want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. You're doing a podcast which I'm so excited about, called Wiser Than Me. And I know that you thought, why don't we hear from some of these older women so often they are pushed aside, but you wanted to talk to women who are incredibly accomplished, continuing to thrive and contribute to the world. And you've interviewed people like Ruth Reichel and also is a well Allende, thank you, fran Leebowitz and Dion von Furstenberg depending on how you pronounce her me. But what if you out Jane Fonda, obviously, because I know the documentary about Jane Fonda really inspired you to do this podcast exactly.
That's what did it.
Yeah, So what have you learned from all these women and what has it been like talking to them?
Well, first of all, it's much more work than I ever thought. It would be no surprise to you, of course, because you do this kind of thing. I don't mean just podcasts, but just yeah, journalistically, because it's not a podcast where we're just sitting around shooting the shit. This is a podcast in which there's a real lens through which we're having a conversation. It has been very inspiring to me personally to meet these women, and there's a common thread here with these women, and there's something about the fact that they're older now. They're all in there, you know, essentially over seventy. And Carol Burnette, by the way, was our last guest and she's ninety.
How was that?
Can I tell you something? It was sublime. I was so to It was. All of these podcasts that I've done have been on zoom, like we're doing it right now, but in the case with Carol, because of various circumstances, we did it in person.
What a treat.
Oh God, Katie, Katie. I was so overcome that I started to cry as I introduced her. Yeah, it was so embarrassing, but I couldn't. Even as I'm telling you this, I'm starting to tear up. I was so moved to have the opportunity to be in her presence and to talk to her about what she's gleaned in her life, and to tell her what a profound impact she had on my own. And I became even more aware of it doing the research leading up to our conversation, because I realized that, without my even realizing it, what she was doing got into my bones and I picked up on it. And that is to say, a woman at the head of a show, who's a part of an ensemble, who's obviously having a very good time, who clearly has a very strong sense of not only comedy but herself. Anyway, the whole thing was just an absolutely cherishable afternoon that I spent doing this with her. But what I was also going to say was, what's so nice about these conversations is these women are at a certain age now, but it's like they don't give a shit. They're happy to tell you. They're happy to talk about things that maybe they might not have wanted to talk about thirty years ago. There's a kind of like they're liberated, and it speaks well of aging. And I find it personally inspirational because it was born out of a desire of my own. And now what's so funny is that people have really responded to it. I think there's a need for this. I think that people are very curious about what these older women have to say and what tidbits life tidbits they can give us that might help us out.
I'm sure you've learned a ton from each one of these, and I don't mean to mush them together, but has there been a common thread in terms of how to live a full and rich life?
As you aid, I think gratitude and human connection. And I know that sounds like we're at a self help retreat right now, but in fact, that is the common denominator for all of these women. They have a sense of gratitude, and they have connections with other people that are meaningful, and they haven't shut down. They've kept themselves open even through the hard stuff.
What about purpose? You know, a raison detra if you will, And I'm curious how much that informs their attitudes and their jois de vive. I don't know why I'm suddenly speaking French to you, Julia.
Well, it really really looks good on you anyway.
How much did that come up? I imagine a lot.
Well, yes, because all of these are women who have engaged in their life, and I would say some of them have more of a philanthropic bent than others. But they've all engaged, you know, They've all stayed present, and I think they've all worked to try to make the world a better place. I think they have that in common too. Yeah, I really do think so. I really do think so. So it's been a treasurable thing to.
Do this, and I think it's been really helpful to a lot of listeners, and as you said, I think it's really filled a void. I hate to end on this note, but I feel like part of your purpose has been to speak out about things you really care deeply about. And I always have respected you so much for that climate change and upholding our democracy, little things.
Like that, yeah, and little nothing burgers.
Yeah. I'm curious how you're feeling right now.
Well, actually I'm feeling let me tell you something. This is what I'm going to say. I'm feeling optimistic. Okay, I'm feeling optimistic because that's the choice I've made for starters and also because it's based on few realities. There was recently a very important election in Wisconsin that was a resounding turnout and stamp of approval for abortion rights and for supporting those candidates that are in favor of Can you even believe we're talking about this but abortion rights. I think the Dobbs decision is going to has and will continue to bring out the vote. And I think the Republicans fucked themselves real bad when that happened. That's what I think. So I'm hopeful about the next big election we have coming up, and I think people are waking up to the critical realities of statewide elections, state legislatures, and that people are beginning to have a better understanding of how important those elections are and are coming out to them as a result, you.
Know, state and local elections, right, That's right.
Yes, completely, So that's so I'm not going to be pessimistic about it.
So you're optimistic about the next election? Are you optimistic? And I'm curious, since you're so involved with environmental issues, how are you feeling about the future of the planet.
Well, I'm worried. I'm worried I think we're all worried. We're certainly reaching the tipping point. And I'm not a scientist, so I can't rattle off all the numbers and so on in terms of carbon levels, but you know, I do serve on the board at the end r DC, and thank God for them because they're on the front lines of defending the Earth and and trying to keep us from this climate crisis. But the climate crisis is upon us. It's here. It's not something that's coming. We are now living in. I mean, I'm grateful that we have a president who's put forward the most aggressive climate legislation in presidential history. I think that's huge, and hopefully we'll elect somebody who sort of carries that forward and makes it even bigger.
Well, I love seeing you and talking to you, me to you, Katie, and I'm really excited about about your movie, which is called You Hurt My Feelings, which I love the title too.
Isn't that funny?
Yeah? I love it all right, lots of love. Okay, thank you, Julia, Thank you Katie. Thanks for listening everyone. By the way, if you have a question for me, a subject you want us to cover, or you want to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world reach out. You can leave a short message at six h nine five P one two five five five, or you can send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Meet, Katie Kuric and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Marcy Thompson. Our producers are Adrianna Fazzio and Catherine Law. Our audio engineer is Matt Russell, who also composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
