Hi, Brian, Hi Katie. Well, I know you're really jazzed about today's show because we get to talk about one of our favorite shows on television, Veep. I love it. I love Julia Louis Dreyfuss. I love sort of the reality, the faux reality of it all. And it's such a great ensemble cast. Every last one of the people on the show just knocks it out of the park week after week after week. Do you agree? I do, And especially Matt Walsh, who plays bumbling, innocent, sweet White House Press secretary Mike McClintock. I just find him hilarious. He's one of those people that you look at him, you just want to laugh because it's a very funny mustache that he's sporting in that show. Didn't he die said mustache once? I think he did in a very early episode sssfully yes to give him a little more youthful verse. But Matt's a really interesting character in and of himself. He's kind of a legend of the improv comedy world. He helped to co found Upright Citizen's Brigade. His other co founders included Amy Poehler, and he's had a fascinating career. He was an early correspondent on The Daily Show. He's appeared on a ton of sitcoms and in a lot of movies. He was in The Hangover, he was in that fine film called hung Was that? Was that a film or a TV series? I think it was in the four hundreds on my cable. I don't know ye that that may be a different movie. But we're very, very excited to have Matt Walsh on the show. So here's Matt and Brian. Unfortunately, for me long distance, I am very jealous because you have the very funny Matt Walsh sitting right next to you in Los Angeles. I'm all the way in New York City out here in l A. So we're very excited to have Matt on the show. And Matt also very flattered because, as I understand it, you actually expressed some interest in being on the show. This has got to be a first. Did you think you were doing the show and obscurity like no one listens to it? Well, we're you know, you never know out there in in uh podcast land. I'll be don't take that. I thought you were Katie Holmes. Last name is Kirk. I'm so sorry, so so sorry, this is awkward, but you're gonna go forward with it anywhile. I'm here, and I gotta get my parking validated, so I might as well earn it. Yeah, we don't validate unless you do the show. That's fair. Yeah that's like seven eight bucks. Thank you, thank you very much. But let's start. Can we start by talking about sort of your career Matt, How you got into this comedy business because you've you started the Upright Citizens Brigade. You're a founding member, which is of course the famous improv comedy theater that's become an institution the comedy world. At what age did you realize, Hey, I'm kind of funny, I'd like to go into comedy. I think my first performing was in the senior Variety show in high school, where we wrote sketches that made fun of teachers and we were a big smash hit. And that was like sort of when I got bit by the bug of like writing and performing comedy. And then I took like one acting class in college, and then my my last senior year I went to Northern Illinois. I discovered this uh improv class that was taught through Second City. So every once a week, I would drive into this city and that's when I really discovered, like, oh, improv comedy is what I really want to do. And at the time, I was like a psych major, so I was kind of like when I got out of college, I worked on a psych floor and then at night I was doing sketch comedy. And let's working on a psych floor is a good place to find sketch comedy, I guess, huh, yes, No, I don't mean that to be callous, but I'm just saying it must be interesting. It was absolutely, and it was a survival. You had to laugh, but it was also you were sort of a wash with dysfunction when you came home, and I think that trade is very difficult, so I I stepped away from it. But there was a lot of laughs there and there was a lot of crazy stories that happened. Absolutely, So u c B is kind of a murderers row of comedians. I mean Amy Poehler helped to found it with you and as He's and sorry and Ellie Kemper and Nick Roll or alums. What makes that particular group different and special? I mean I remember reading that you know in the u c B. Ethos and improvisers should always be thinking about group mind supporting the other performers. Is that different? I think one thing we take pride in is we do have a real curriculum, Like because we were all actors, we'd all been in acting classes where you spend eight weeks and the teacher says you're amazing, and then when you leave, there's no takeaway. It's like I thought I is good, but now I haven't learned anything. So we really made a point to like academify what we were teaching. We wrote a book, and so that's one thing I'm super proud of is we really tried to get students takeaway for their investment of time at the theater. And I think in general, we're fortunate that people discovered uc BE. Like, I don't necessarily take credit for Nick Kroll or any of these people being funny, but once they're plugged into this community and they make these wonderful friendships and they care about this art form, then they have the same passion we do. And I'm and I'm happy that they sort of got that bug the same way that I got that bug. We created a gymnasium where people can practice this art form and and get hooked on it. And that's what makes me super proud. I love this whole idea too, of caring about the group and really kind of helping people out so that everybody can shine, which seems to be quite different than the ethos obviously of stand up comedy. I mean, how does that work where you kind of want to be supportive of people around you, and how does that affect your interactions? And in prov, well, I think stand up is an art form of say, critique, cultural, political, etcetera. And I think improv is an art form of collaboration. And uh, I personally like the anonymity of collaboration because you don't have to you don't have to shoulder the burden. You're not out in front solo, so I guess you can hide inside a group art form. So that's particularly what I liked about it. And also when you bomb that you don't bomb. Yeah, you're not everybody bombs. You're not drinking at a holiday inn and Madison, Wisconsin by yourself, You're you're commiserating and making fun of the audience for not getting how good you were. We have a clip of you and some others on the anniversary of the U C b um. You guys were on the Today Show, so let's play that. WHOA Well, if you slipped on people's couches, Yes, I couch hopped and I slept in a before they cleaned up the guanas canal. It smelled so bad I thought I had peed myself. One night I woke up and it smelled so horrible, like, oh my god, what happened? And it was just Brooklyn. It was just Brooklyn coming in. And you walked a ton of weight because you walked everywhere because it was too expensive to them. We were legit poor, and so you were legit poor. And and how did you kind of get from there to actually making a living and doing well as a as a comedian? What is the You have friends? Like when we landed in New York, we had several friends who worked and wrote on Conan O'Brien and Saturday Night Live. So fortunately for us, our friends were like, hey, come by for a day and do a bit on Conan, or come by for a day and do a short film on SNL. So we were sort of plugged into opportunities when we landed, so that truthfully helped pay the rent and forever grateful to a lot of those people in those shows. Um and then just being seen like it was word of mouth. It was sort of still pre YouTube. Nine six is when we landed in New York and so we were doing shows seven nights a week, and people who cared about comedy gave us props. And then I'll go and behold we had shows with audiences. Meanwhile, you have been enjoying being on FIVA. I'm sure it must be. I don't know, is is that a dream come true for you, Matt because it is such a great show and you have such a hilarious character in Mike McClintock, the White House Press secretary slash director of Communications for president no longer president, but former president, former President Selina Myers. How much fun is How relevant is that that the press secretary is also the communications director because of course, in the real life White House they couldn't get anyone to be the communications director, so Spicer is doing it. Mike McClintock was terrible at his job years before Sean Spicer was on the scene, so he is not an impersonation of Sean Spicer. I'll say that much, but it's it is the it's the best gig to be on a show where everybody's funny and nice, and the writing is spectacular and Julia is amazing, and to have people care about it, like this year more than ever, I think people wanted to laugh at politics. So there's real attention to sort of the labor that you put into the show. And it's also collaborative. They really want input, and we improvised in rehearsals and we use they use our input to sort of change the drafts and and make it better. So it's it is a rare opportunity to be on a really funny show and also have people watch that show. It's so great. And here's a clip where Selena is impersonating your character Might. Let's let's listen to this. Why don't you just tell the truth? I don't sound like that. That's exactly how you sound spot. Yeah, it's pretty close. I don't know where you get that impersonation. Now, was that was that just a spontaneous thing or was that part of the script. That's sort of a bit that lived in the rehearsal room with Julia likes doing an impression of Mike uh. And it is always I always crack up when she does an impression of Mike, And it just ended up one of the episodes, and I think she's done it a couple of times, so I always laugh when she does her impression of Mike. And how much of this show is scripted versus stuff you come up basically on her percent script and when we get the set and we get our pages for that day. The pages change every day, but once it's on the page, there's room to rehearse it and tinker with it and add jokes or say it in your own words, but it's pretty much on the page when we film it. It's interesting on Veep, your character is kind of a perpetual screw up, but he's also he's an innocent in a way. And he's also a throwback to an earlier time when I think you said this in one interview you could just call more in doubt and fix something. And of course now we live in a different world. How much of Mike's struggle is that the media environment has changed, and how much of it is that he's just kind of a blunderbuss to use a word from Veep. Uh he. I think in the beginning it was a result of the fast pace change of how the media was moving. And then I think in reality he might be a good speechwriter, like he probably is good with you know, prose, but he is a little too childlike to be at the head of a communications department. He's easily distracted. I like him because he's so earnest, you know, and he's really trying to do a good job, and yet he's just so clueless at the same time. And I also love his relationship with Katheen to Jimmy, who's one of my favorite people in the world. She is so funny and they had I mean, you must, you must, you guys must laugh all the time doing that show? Or is that just how I imagine it to be? No, it is, I mean it's it is like a lot of work. I mean it's good work. It's the best job in the world, but we do put a lot of effort into making it seem sloppy and naturalistic and real. Um. But Cathy is awesome. She's really funny, and I think that's the first time I ever worked with her was on our show, but I always look forward to doing scenes with her. She's a great wife. Has it been hard, uh? Matt for you all this season to be out of the White House, because were you at all worried that the show might lose its mojo by taking you all not only out of Washington, but kind of splitting up the gang. One of the things I love about VEEP, and I think it comes from the sort of British DNA Armandoina Iannucci created the show, and like I think two years in or maybe the third season, she was president and the show was still called VEEP. Like they're willing to change and re contextualize the show. Every season. They'll throw a whole scripts out and just write it from scratch. Like they they keep it fresh and they don't feel like, oh we we can't violate this or can't violate that. And that's what I love about VEEP. So when they they knew Selena, David said many times and Julia I would agree, is that Selena has to lose. It's always funnier when she's beaten up, and so you knew they knew she was going to lose that electoral college tie. I think it's fortunate for the show that we're not in DC because it's such a nightmare right now and people would be it would be hard to heighten beyond what is coming out of d C in real life. So I think I think it benefits us and I do think like bringing the band back together, it is a writing challenge because it is we all started in our own orbits. But I think as the show has gone on, I always say, like in the beginning, we were sort of swimming and Selena's wake, following her around hallways in d C. And as each season has gone on, you know, Mike gets married, everyone builds a life outside of it. Dan's on the news now. I think they've made the show bigger and bigger, and but it is fun to see how they pull us back in and how the old faces come back in for one more, you know, putting the band back together. But well, let's can we catch up with some of the characters, because it is fun to see, you know, what everybody is up to. As you said, Dan has landed a gig anchoring the CBS morning show that I do. I wanted to say congratulations Mozl Dan to you, and I think he as an excellent job. Did you have to get permission from CBS to do that? I'm assuming you did. It's a great question. I don't know, but I had the same reaction watching it, like because I don't I'm not in the room when they filmed those, like I'm not in the morning show set, But I'm like, how did they get? I feel the same How did they get? CVS is blessing? They must have assented to that, but isn't it? Is it sat higher like the two comedians have more leeway, I guess, but it's it is a world with bigger egos and even sharper knives than Washington, I guess. So they successfully found one like that. Well, we have a clip of an exchange between Dan and his co anchor Jane, played by Margaret Colin. They cracked me up, and of course this was my world for many years, as you know, Matt. So we pulled a clip of her talking and I had to laugh at this because I think it's the anchor woman's sphere that a younger, more attractive woman is coming just around the corner to take her job. Let's listen, Yes, Danny, I know that we're not actually fucking because you're not a billionaire and I don't want to catch anything. Okay, well, then maybe you can call the post and tell them these rumors about us are complete bullshit, because this is like do we blows Truman here? Dah? If I stop being funkable, then I am grandma. And if I'm Grandma, I will be replaced by two tips with a degree from American University over there. I thought that was so funny. I love the American University jokes. It reminds me of the what was the Goldie ham line about their three ages for women in Hollywood Babe, District attorney and driving Miss Daisy. Maybe that's true if anchor people too, and the farewell when did you are you caught up? I'm not caught up yet? Spoil anything? No? No, I think the idea is we're spoiling people who haven't seen like the beginning of the sixth season. But if you haven't finished it, we're not going to spoil. You've got some good stuff ahead for you can definitely, I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Meanwhile, Jonah is using his cancer to help his political career. That's so cynical, isn't it. Mad Yes, and he's like the most hated man in Washington, sort of all a Ted Cruz. Yes, that would be a close Yeah, you would be a close comparison. One of the things I really love about the show is how much of it is drawn from real life and real history or sort of a twist or a parody on history. I mean, I remember in the season finale of last season, the new president gets credit for freeing Tibet when it was really Selena who had been sort of working furiously with the Chinese, very much like Jimmy Carter with the Iranian hostages. And of course Reagan got credit for freeing them the day that he was sworn into Yes, that is I'm sure it was inspired. They do the writers, you know, every year do field trips to d C and try to get the nitty gritty stories behind, you know, how things are made or what you know, what went down. And I think this year they interviewed Romney for a few hours, like he came to the writer's room and told her. Yeah that he told him what it was like to lose an election and how you build yourself up. And so they really do their research before they start like structuring the season. And I remember reading in one of these episodes that when you talk to Romney, you recognized how much he had this big support system of family and friends and business to sort of catch him when he fell after the loss, and you guys just decided, Okay, well what would it be like to lose without any of that? And that's what we're going to make Selena go through. Yeah. Selena is terrible to her daughter, She's terrible to everyone. So it's actually quite fun to see her way at the bottom. It is fun to have to to have a character that is so unlikable and yet so popular. Yeah, what is it about her? You know, I've been told a few times maybe I should be concerned. Matt and Brian, Please do not confirm this that I remind people of Selena. Oh, oh my god. You do not want that comparison. Oh my god. I think it's sometimes because there's a flurry of activity around me. Sometimes I don't know what that makes me. You're Gary. I sometimes I hand my first to Brian and say, Gary, come on, make it snappy. Yeah, do you want some rose hip? Ti Katie. But we're going to take a break because I want to talk to Matt Walsh Moore about political reality versus beat. And that's right after this. Sean Spicer versus Mike McClintock. How do you assess the two together? That's the question. Uh, Mike actually at the podium in the press room is competent at his job. Sean Spicer is not. So my advice to Sean Spicer has quit, like, you should quit your job. I understand that he seems like someone who's been knocking around d C forever and he's finally in the spotlight, and people like that I want to hang on to whatever little power they have, but it's a terrible administration, and have some respect for yourself and quit that job. And what about the argument that some people make them that they should stay in the administration because they're a force for good, or if they were to leave, they'd just be replaced by somebody worse in that position. No, you're not. You're a puppet. You're you're a mouthpiece for a liar and a corrupt administration. So I don't see you affecting anything. I guess if you're an advisor inside there and you stick to your values, if you're Maddest or somebody like that, I guess you could make that argument. Yeah, Like, thank god, I'm trust me, guys, thank god, I'm in the room. Believe me, Believe me. The alterna, I just wait till the President's attention goes away, and we still do what we want to do. Like sure, I'm glad that guy's or that woman is there. Sure, And why do you think Sean Spicer stays around? I honestly feel like the way our show is a workplace comedy, so you get to see beyond Selena. You get to see the lives of the advisors and the you know, every schedulers and press secretaries, et cetera. And I think those people hang on because to be in the White House is the big show. Like that's what you want. You want that a list power. And so I think once you get it, your whole behavior, you've been inching towards this thing, and all your decisions and all your cutthroat sort of moves have gotten you in this position. I think you're just out of instant cling to it. And I also think people, and I think you can even see it in veep in a way, how insulated the world becomes and how these people become your family and you have very little interaction outside this world because it basically sucks the oxygen out of your entire being. You can see how almost both intoxicating and suffocating that can be. Yeah, and yeah, I think there's like history, you know, for Mike, there's some loyalty there. He's been with her for twenty years and I'm sure in the early days it was friendly and fun and now it's just like routine or whatever. But yeah, I think that it is. Uh, what else would you do? Could you really just unplugged and start a nursery in Santa Barbara or something? I don't think so. These people are animals. We talked about Sean Spicer a moment ago, and we have a clip where Spicer's Spicies American flag pin is upside down and the press court tells him during a press conference, lets let's have not heard thank you for this and with that, I'd be glad to take your questions. John Mark, John Robert's always helping with the fashion tips upside one of them. There's a stress. I appreciate that. Thank you. There's no promless your questions, Jesus. That's my favorite line of the whole thing. See, that's like we would have conversations like that in the room, like is that too bad? Like is that not believed. Would Mike really get on the podium with that. It's remarkable. We also have another clip that I want to play of Mike and Jonah talking about one of my personal favorites, a song from the Civil War called Yeah, let's listen to that. Oh my gosh, sing me a song just spin the old dial on radio with Clintock. See what it lands on. Really, I don't know, goober peas, I have no fucking idea what that is. It's an old Civil War song for real? Yeah, perfect, It's like a history lesson. Hit me up County No. Five six seven. When a horseman passes, soldiers have a rule they cry at their loudest mr, where's your mule? A little twanging it. But another pleasure, more enchanting er than these is wearing at your grunders eating Google. Pease, please, please pease. We were trying to get a public domain song for that moment on the set, and I was remembering my childhood and I learned that song. I'm like, that's got to be public domain. So I pitched that song. And in spite of all this absurdity, every Washington pro I ever talked to says, this is the most authentic show about politics today. I mean, how scary is that it really is? Because it's important business and to realize that the buffoons we play, our reflection of what happens in d C is scary. Yeah. By the way, I have a total girl crush on Julia Louis Dreyfuss. I'm sure I'm not alone. Mike. Uh, we're friendly, um, believe it or not. My late husband, I think did some business with her dad and I actually was looking at some photographs last night when we were on the Seinfeld set when I was interviewing her and Jerry for their final episode, or at least I think at the height of the popularity of that show, which I don't think ever dwindled. But what does she like to work to dubs? She was a guest on this podcast. Oh that's true. Yes, I definitely I traded on our friendship and brought her here. She would be on our podcast as well. But what does she like to work with? Because she seems like she's such a a brilliant comedian, needless to say, but also a really generous coworker. She is, Uh, Julia is the best. She keeps it real, she's fun, she's friendly. When we lived in Baltimore, we used to shoot, you know, four seasons we were there, there was more downtime, and she would you know, she was she was a good like mom, organized, she would host card parties or she would She's great and she's so talented. What's the worst thing about Julia Louie d the worst thing, the single most horrible quality. I don't know, it doesn't make sense. That's a good that's a good press secretary. I can't think. Uh No, she's really great and she's very like nice and normal and kind and super talented, Like she really sets the tone for the show, and she is I definitely have learned a ton, you know, working with her. She really is one of the best I've ever worked. What have you learned? Oftentimes, when you have a joke on the page, you're as an actor, you're sort of racing to get to that punchline. You know, your instinct is like, I just gotta get through this so I can say the joke. And she is so good at like taking these little detours on the way to the joke, so like relishing the set up and finding little comic moments in the setup of the joke that was sort of a revelation that doesn't speak highly of me, perhaps, but things like that or just she has sort of an unbelievable quest for specific in any scene, whether it's I'm gonna write my I'm gonna sign these bills, like what's the pen? Do you know what I mean? Like, she really loves the specifics, and I think that is another thing I'm amazed by. Now less people think that she's the only superstar on this show. I noticed in the g Q profile of you, Matt that that this paragraph, that this paragraph was written and appeared. It's within the improv world that he's most recognized mobbed even outside of the theater. He's the Pope and Harry Styles combined. He is the Sun and everyone else has been granted life by his mirror existence, and this makes him feel awkward. So I didn't realize that you were zeus in a particular setting, well in the improv world, because I started a theater that people care about in a school that people care about. It would be like I when I lived in New York, I actually found an apartment above our theater. So it's imagine like the dean of the college living in front of the buildings. So every day when you walk in your door, students want to talk to you and ask you about this art form. So in that world, I do have status, Yes I do. Meanwhile, let's let's let's let's talk about sort of the chatter on the set about the current administration and really among your friends and family members. I mean, what do you make of Donald Trump? What would we have to talk about? By the way, pro Trump on't but but I mean, are you all just every day, almost on an hourly basis, scratching your heads or shaking your heads. Well, the context of it, we we're on set the night of this the previous year's election in November, we were on set and it got gloomier and gloomier. We, like everyone suspected Hillary is probably gonna win. And so that was like the beginning of the Trump era. Penetrate our show, and they didn't change any of the storylines. Her being out of d C was turned out to be a blessing. And then yeah, I mean, everybody, the writers and the consultants on this show are super smart. And of course every day we're hearing about what came out of d C. The last moment, and uh, there is an obsession with the insanity. I have no insight into how terrible it is and how we can survive it other than you know, we just try to make the show funny and focus on small acts of kindness. I don't know, Like I can't dissect. It's a disaster. I mean, I'm completely fucking disappointed in so many ways. And in the nature of common decency has been erased, and the tradition of the office has been erased, and it's the acceptance of lies as standard procedure. It's not even so much of his policies. I couldn't even tell you how he lands on them. It's more the tradition of like reason has been ignored. It's interesting so much of what seemed farcical and ridiculous on the show has sort of come to pass in real life. I mean, I remember one episode in which Selena was live tweeting, and that was just absurd. I mean, a president couldn't be live time. We're trying to get into the situation room to knock the phone out of there exactly, and now that wouldn't even be People would watch that moment now and be like, why is why are they so scared of a tweet? Like what does that mean? It does? Like there are things that have changed and maybe next year, well I don't know what the stories are going to be, but maybe next year we'll have to consider uh. But again, we they the show the last president, we references Reagan. So they try and you never see people like Anderson Cooper Wolf Blitzer walk into our world. So they really try to cling to that bubble of fiction because it gives us more latitude and hopefully makes it show more timeless, I think. And they never they never mentioned it what political party Selena is? For example. Yeah, and that's why Publicans and Democrats like our show, like they oftentimes think, you know, they're making fun of the other party. You know, they don't see themselves in it, like way to skewer the Republicans and like, well we're kind of getting everybody actually, But okay, okay, but what party do you really think Selena is? I don't know. I mean, you could go through her issues and probably find her somewhere. Do I have a hunch? I mean, what do you think I'll say that? What do you think she is? What do I think she is? If she had to be one party. What party would she be? I tend to think she's a Democrat, but maybe I'm biased by the fact that in real life all the people playing these characters or Democrats, and so I tend to think of them like Democrats. I'm not sure that she's actually put forward a policy that would reveal one way or the other. Although she sort of did that Job's program. Yeah, that that seemed a little bit more big government had early on some green energy programing, so those would be more progressive. Yeah, she's more progressive. Sure, I just want to say it so HBO doesn't fire me or something like that. I'm such a company man. Do you think there's something about women in politics, and particularly a woman as president that drives a lot of the humor and criticism. I mean a lot of people are now looking at this in the wake of Hillary's loss. Rebecca trey Stir wrote an interesting piece in New York Magazine, also former guest on this show, about you know I sound like I'm just played. Yeah, I know, somebody's got to. Katie mentioned that today's show interview with Julia not even our podcast. But I'm sorry, but to what extent do you think we still hold female political leaders to a different standard. Oh my gosh. Uh, well it is still a novelty unfortunately, Like I don't think we've had a female vice president office, and we haven't had a female president, so it is fiction right now. So I think that was the impetus for the show when Armando and Julia got together, is like, you know, she's a woman in office, but also she's in the worst office, which is vice president. But that's a big question, like, well, do you think a lot of the humor comes from women being judged and treated differently. I mean I remember somebody saying that if you're a woman in politics and you're too strong, you're a bit and if you're two weak, well you're just too weak and you can't be elected to an executive job, and so finding that sweet spot in between is almost impossible. That's a good point. I mean, sure women are definitely held to hire standard of course in politics. And I think it's funnier too for Julia to be filthy and talk like a sailor because she's an attractive woman, Like I think there's something inherently funnier about that, Like if you saw a gruff heavy set man with booze on his breath saying those things. It's almost more expected, so us they do play with the convention of like the stuff you're speaking to. Yeah. On the other hand, she's so ridiculously self involved, in so vain, so narcissistic. Then, you know, do you ever worry that having those qualities kind of underscore what some people fear is more present in women than in men, even though we all know that's bullshit. So do you think people will see the show and because she's such a narcissist and so vain, they might associate all women with that portrayal, or you know, somehow it will be subversively it doesn't help. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, uh yeah, I mean I guess that is a possible interpretation. What uh boy, These are good questions. I wish I was smarter, and they ultimately feel like, I mean, Selena is terrible to women. Selena hates women. She does. She's so brutal, mean to women, And you can go through the episodes and like and obviously her daughter, she has a terrible relationship with her daughter. Ay, yeah, Amy, She's brutal to Amy, like she's brutal to everyone. Gary and she's scared of Sue. She's scared of Sue. She's scared of Sue. Yeah, but I think it's awesome that whatever. Julia is so funny and she's at the head of a funny show, Like I would think that does more good for the cause than uh works against it. How about that for an answer. I think that's a good answer. So what would you like to do, Matt, You've got this pretty good gig going. Um, are there things that you'd like to do? Um? In addition to continuing with Beep, Yeah, I always tend to do a movie or two in the summer's off. I've directed two small, like improv movies. I'll probably direct another one. I'm writing a couple of things that are like features. So yeah, I I enjoy doing movies. You have riggsby Bear coming out, We have bragsby Bear coming out. Thank you for the plug that comes out at the end of July. We will you did that with SNL cast member Kyle Mooney, Deaths Right. I did that one, and then Feudal and Stupid Gesture comes out sometime this year, which is about the Lampoon, the evolution of the Lampoon magazine into the thing it became and all the people who came through that world. That's really cool. And I was very interested to see that you have a starring role in a rom com called Under the Eiffel Tower. Tell me about that, Matt Well. Someone a couple of years ago said I have a movie you could be the lead, and we're going to film in France, and I was like, can I bring the family? And didn't even read it. So with that premise, it's taken two years of indie you know, indie films, scraping for money, writing out people quitting. But lo and behold, I'm going in July to Paris to film a movie and I'm bringing the kids and Morgan, my wife's comming. And what's a movie about. It's about out a bourbon salesman played by me, who makes the mistake of proposing to this family friend, this woman who's only like twenty six or twenty seven, just out of grad school, and that just goes south from there. He's on a drinking bender, hooks up with this rugby player and then meets a woman who wants a vineyard and they fall in love. Oh that sounds so fun. Yeah, it is fun. It's glamorization of French culture, which we Americans love to see on film. And there's some funny people David Wayne and mckello, Watkins and Gary Cole so well Gary Cole. So you have a little reunion with Gary Cole. Yes, Gary's a friend, a legit friend, so yes, he will be out there. So we're all sort of psychic, you know, go overseas and relax for a while. I love him on V two because he's such a great character. He's so funny, and you know, I grew up with him and weird like, well, no, I didn't grow up with him. I grew up. I grew up watching him. Sorry, I grew up watching him and he used to play very dark characters. And to see him, to see him really flex his comedy muscles is so much fun to me. The other guy I love and veep Matt is the kind of he looks very much like a political operative. Kevin Dunn. I love Kevin Dunn. He is so great. He comes up with the funniest one liners. He talks about his nuts a lot. I do notice that Katie's always partial to a good testicle joke. You're his demo Katie, you're hey, wait, wait, no, Kevin's amazing, So it's Gary. Those guys were like Chicago actors when I was in the city, so they're like real Thespians as well as being super hilarious, funny human beings, you know. And speaking of super hilarious, by the way, the episode when I told friends of mine that I was talking to you that came up the most was the Master Cleans. Oh really, yes, that's so funny, which was hysterical. Oh no, breakfast for this guy who's offering you are looking at a guy on the Master Cleans. I feel amazing. What the lunatics fuck is the Master Cleans? It sounds like Nazi domestic policy. Yeah, it was last season. You wanted to describe what's happening. Mike is on a Master Cleans and he's like sort of fasting and just drinking like lemon cayenne, maple syrup, one of those things. And uh, I give the writer's knew someone, but apparently you have to like drink it every fifteen minutes or you will literally crash on your glue faint. You'll just faint. So Mike forgot to bring his bottle to the podium and was like losing his mind. And just during the briefing. During the briefing, Julia has this great line where she where she walks in the room after the the juice had been spilled, and she said, it smells like Puerto Rico in here, which is probably vaguely racist, but I was funny. Yeah. Anyway, Well, it's so fun to talk to you, Matt and listen. Thank you for you and the whole VAT crew for entertaining us, uh season after season and it's a real highlight of of my Sunday night and uh. And it's so great because you can binge watch Beep, which is something that my husband and I often do. So yeah, it's only a half hour, Come on, you can you can watch a whole season in one sitting, practically. Thank you so much for coming by next time. I hope I get to see you in person. I thank you with the premiere. Yes, we did years years back and that premiere, but that's okay. We didn't have a premier this year. We didn't have a premiere this year. Maybe next year, you guys, if we have a premiere, I'll try to get one of you in. It'll probably go to Katie. You get it though, Yeah, she's old friends with Juliet's a Gary, always a Gary. Thanks Matt, thank you, Thanks a huge thank you to our great team that helps make this show happen every time we do it. Our producer Gianna Palmer, our sound engineers Jared O'Connell in New York and Ryan Conner in l A. And Alison Bresnik, who slays our social media. Also Emily Beena of Katie Kirk Media and Nora Ritchie who always provides great extra editorial support. And Mark Phillips whoever you are, wherever you are. Thank you as always for our terrific theme music. Katie Kurrik and I are the executive producers of this show and folks, please drop us a line. You can leave a voicemail at nine to nine to two four four six three seven or email us at comments at current podcast dot com. We really do read the comments and listen to the comments. As for social media, I'm at Goldsmith B on Twitter. Katie is all over the social sphere at Katie Kurrik on Twitter and Instagram, Katie dot Kurrik on Snapchat, which is on Facebook. She is everywhere. I'm everywhere, and I tried to do a social media detox, and what can I say, You're falling off the wagon. You're pretty addicted. Yeah, and hey, if you like our show, we'd love for you to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Please subscribe as well. If you don't like our show, I don't know what you're doing listening to this part of the credits, but shut up on the ratings and reviews. Please

Hi, Brian, Hi Katie. Well, I know you're really jazzed about today's show because we get to talk about one of our favorite shows on television, Veep. I love it. I love Julia Louis Dreyfuss. I love sort of the reality, the faux reality of it all. And it's such a great ensemble cast. Every last one of the people on the show just knocks it out of the park week after week after week. Do you agree? I do, And especially Matt Walsh, who plays bumbling, innocent, sweet White House Press secretary Mike McClintock. I just find him hilarious. He's one of those people that you look at him, you just want to laugh because it's a very funny mustache that he's sporting in that show. Didn't he die said mustache once? I think he did in a very early episode sssfully yes to give him a little more youthful verse. But Matt's a really interesting character in and of himself. He's kind of a legend of the improv comedy world. He helped to co found Upright Citizen's Brigade. His other co founders included Amy Poehler, and he's had a fascinating career. He was an early correspondent on The Daily Show. He's appeared on a ton of sitcoms and in a lot of movies. He was in The Hangover, he was in that fine film called hung Was that? Was that a film or a TV series? I think it was in the four hundreds on my cable. I don't know ye that that may be a different movie. But we're very, very excited to have Matt Walsh on the show. So here's Matt and Brian. Unfortunately, for me long distance, I am very jealous because you have the very funny Matt Walsh sitting right next to you in Los Angeles. I'm all the way in New York City out here in l A. So we're very excited to have Matt on the show. And Matt also very flattered because, as I understand it, you actually expressed some interest in being on the show. This has got to be a first. Did you think you were doing the show and obscurity like no one listens to it? Well, we're you know, you never know out there in in uh podcast land. I'll be don't take that. I thought you were Katie Holmes. Last name is Kirk. I'm so sorry, so so sorry, this is awkward, but you're gonna go forward with it anywhile. I'm here, and I gotta get my parking validated, so I might as well earn it. Yeah, we don't validate unless you do the show. That's fair. Yeah that's like seven eight bucks. Thank you, thank you very much. But let's start. Can we start by talking about sort of your career Matt, How you got into this comedy business because you've you started the Upright Citizens Brigade. You're a founding member, which is of course the famous improv comedy theater that's become an institution the comedy world. At what age did you realize, Hey, I'm kind of funny, I'd like to go into comedy. I think my first performing was in the senior Variety show in high school, where we wrote sketches that made fun of teachers and we were a big smash hit. And that was like sort of when I got bit by the bug of like writing and performing comedy. And then I took like one acting class in college, and then my my last senior year I went to Northern Illinois. I discovered this uh improv class that was taught through Second City. So every once a week, I would drive into this city and that's when I really discovered, like, oh, improv comedy is what I really want to do. And at the time, I was like a psych major, so I was kind of like when I got out of college, I worked on a psych floor and then at night I was doing sketch comedy. And let's working on a psych floor is a good place to find sketch comedy, I guess, huh, yes, No, I don't mean that to be callous, but I'm just saying it must be interesting. It was absolutely, and it was a survival. You had to laugh, but it was also you were sort of a wash with dysfunction when you came home, and I think that trade is very difficult, so I I stepped away from it. But there was a lot of laughs there and there was a lot of crazy stories that happened. Absolutely, So u c B is kind of a murderers row of comedians. I mean Amy Poehler helped to found it with you and as He's and sorry and Ellie Kemper and Nick Roll or alums. What makes that particular group different and special? I mean I remember reading that you know in the u c B. Ethos and improvisers should always be thinking about group mind supporting the other performers. Is that different? I think one thing we take pride in is we do have a real curriculum, Like because we were all actors, we'd all been in acting classes where you spend eight weeks and the teacher says you're amazing, and then when you leave, there's no takeaway. It's like I thought I is good, but now I haven't learned anything. So we really made a point to like academify what we were teaching. We wrote a book, and so that's one thing I'm super proud of is we really tried to get students takeaway for their investment of time at the theater. And I think in general, we're fortunate that people discovered uc BE. Like, I don't necessarily take credit for Nick Kroll or any of these people being funny, but once they're plugged into this community and they make these wonderful friendships and they care about this art form, then they have the same passion we do. And I'm and I'm happy that they sort of got that bug the same way that I got that bug. We created a gymnasium where people can practice this art form and and get hooked on it. And that's what makes me super proud. I love this whole idea too, of caring about the group and really kind of helping people out so that everybody can shine, which seems to be quite different than the ethos obviously of stand up comedy. I mean, how does that work where you kind of want to be supportive of people around you, and how does that affect your interactions? And in prov, well, I think stand up is an art form of say, critique, cultural, political, etcetera. And I think improv is an art form of collaboration. And uh, I personally like the anonymity of collaboration because you don't have to you don't have to shoulder the burden. You're not out in front solo, so I guess you can hide inside a group art form. So that's particularly what I liked about it. And also when you bomb that you don't bomb. Yeah, you're not everybody bombs. You're not drinking at a holiday inn and Madison, Wisconsin by yourself, You're you're commiserating and making fun of the audience for not getting how good you were. We have a clip of you and some others on the anniversary of the U C b um. You guys were on the Today Show, so let's play that. WHOA Well, if you slipped on people's couches, Yes, I couch hopped and I slept in a before they cleaned up the guanas canal. It smelled so bad I thought I had peed myself. One night I woke up and it smelled so horrible, like, oh my god, what happened? And it was just Brooklyn. It was just Brooklyn coming in. And you walked a ton of weight because you walked everywhere because it was too expensive to them. We were legit poor, and so you were legit poor. And and how did you kind of get from there to actually making a living and doing well as a as a comedian? What is the You have friends? Like when we landed in New York, we had several friends who worked and wrote on Conan O'Brien and Saturday Night Live. So fortunately for us, our friends were like, hey, come by for a day and do a bit on Conan, or come by for a day and do a short film on SNL. So we were sort of plugged into opportunities when we landed, so that truthfully helped pay the rent and forever grateful to a lot of those people in those shows. Um and then just being seen like it was word of mouth. It was sort of still pre YouTube. Nine six is when we landed in New York and so we were doing shows seven nights a week, and people who cared about comedy gave us props. And then I'll go and behold we had shows with audiences. Meanwhile, you have been enjoying being on FIVA. I'm sure it must be. I don't know, is is that a dream come true for you, Matt because it is such a great show and you have such a hilarious character in Mike McClintock, the White House Press secretary slash director of Communications for president no longer president, but former president, former President Selina Myers. How much fun is How relevant is that that the press secretary is also the communications director because of course, in the real life White House they couldn't get anyone to be the communications director, so Spicer is doing it. Mike McClintock was terrible at his job years before Sean Spicer was on the scene, so he is not an impersonation of Sean Spicer. I'll say that much, but it's it is the it's the best gig to be on a show where everybody's funny and nice, and the writing is spectacular and Julia is amazing, and to have people care about it, like this year more than ever, I think people wanted to laugh at politics. So there's real attention to sort of the labor that you put into the show. And it's also collaborative. They really want input, and we improvised in rehearsals and we use they use our input to sort of change the drafts and and make it better. So it's it is a rare opportunity to be on a really funny show and also have people watch that show. It's so great. And here's a clip where Selena is impersonating your character Might. Let's let's listen to this. Why don't you just tell the truth? I don't sound like that. That's exactly how you sound spot. Yeah, it's pretty close. I don't know where you get that impersonation. Now, was that was that just a spontaneous thing or was that part of the script. That's sort of a bit that lived in the rehearsal room with Julia likes doing an impression of Mike uh. And it is always I always crack up when she does an impression of Mike, And it just ended up one of the episodes, and I think she's done it a couple of times, so I always laugh when she does her impression of Mike. And how much of this show is scripted versus stuff you come up basically on her percent script and when we get the set and we get our pages for that day. The pages change every day, but once it's on the page, there's room to rehearse it and tinker with it and add jokes or say it in your own words, but it's pretty much on the page when we film it. It's interesting on Veep, your character is kind of a perpetual screw up, but he's also he's an innocent in a way. And he's also a throwback to an earlier time when I think you said this in one interview you could just call more in doubt and fix something. And of course now we live in a different world. How much of Mike's struggle is that the media environment has changed, and how much of it is that he's just kind of a blunderbuss to use a word from Veep. Uh he. I think in the beginning it was a result of the fast pace change of how the media was moving. And then I think in reality he might be a good speechwriter, like he probably is good with you know, prose, but he is a little too childlike to be at the head of a communications department. He's easily distracted. I like him because he's so earnest, you know, and he's really trying to do a good job, and yet he's just so clueless at the same time. And I also love his relationship with Katheen to Jimmy, who's one of my favorite people in the world. She is so funny and they had I mean, you must, you must, you guys must laugh all the time doing that show? Or is that just how I imagine it to be? No, it is, I mean it's it is like a lot of work. I mean it's good work. It's the best job in the world, but we do put a lot of effort into making it seem sloppy and naturalistic and real. Um. But Cathy is awesome. She's really funny, and I think that's the first time I ever worked with her was on our show, but I always look forward to doing scenes with her. She's a great wife. Has it been hard, uh? Matt for you all this season to be out of the White House, because were you at all worried that the show might lose its mojo by taking you all not only out of Washington, but kind of splitting up the gang. One of the things I love about VEEP, and I think it comes from the sort of British DNA Armandoina Iannucci created the show, and like I think two years in or maybe the third season, she was president and the show was still called VEEP. Like they're willing to change and re contextualize the show. Every season. They'll throw a whole scripts out and just write it from scratch. Like they they keep it fresh and they don't feel like, oh we we can't violate this or can't violate that. And that's what I love about VEEP. So when they they knew Selena, David said many times and Julia I would agree, is that Selena has to lose. It's always funnier when she's beaten up, and so you knew they knew she was going to lose that electoral college tie. I think it's fortunate for the show that we're not in DC because it's such a nightmare right now and people would be it would be hard to heighten beyond what is coming out of d C in real life. So I think I think it benefits us and I do think like bringing the band back together, it is a writing challenge because it is we all started in our own orbits. But I think as the show has gone on, I always say, like in the beginning, we were sort of swimming and Selena's wake, following her around hallways in d C. And as each season has gone on, you know, Mike gets married, everyone builds a life outside of it. Dan's on the news now. I think they've made the show bigger and bigger, and but it is fun to see how they pull us back in and how the old faces come back in for one more, you know, putting the band back together. But well, let's can we catch up with some of the characters, because it is fun to see, you know, what everybody is up to. As you said, Dan has landed a gig anchoring the CBS morning show that I do. I wanted to say congratulations Mozl Dan to you, and I think he as an excellent job. Did you have to get permission from CBS to do that? I'm assuming you did. It's a great question. I don't know, but I had the same reaction watching it, like because I don't I'm not in the room when they filmed those, like I'm not in the morning show set, But I'm like, how did they get? I feel the same How did they get? CVS is blessing? They must have assented to that, but isn't it? Is it sat higher like the two comedians have more leeway, I guess, but it's it is a world with bigger egos and even sharper knives than Washington, I guess. So they successfully found one like that. Well, we have a clip of an exchange between Dan and his co anchor Jane, played by Margaret Colin. They cracked me up, and of course this was my world for many years, as you know, Matt. So we pulled a clip of her talking and I had to laugh at this because I think it's the anchor woman's sphere that a younger, more attractive woman is coming just around the corner to take her job. Let's listen, Yes, Danny, I know that we're not actually fucking because you're not a billionaire and I don't want to catch anything. Okay, well, then maybe you can call the post and tell them these rumors about us are complete bullshit, because this is like do we blows Truman here? Dah? If I stop being funkable, then I am grandma. And if I'm Grandma, I will be replaced by two tips with a degree from American University over there. I thought that was so funny. I love the American University jokes. It reminds me of the what was the Goldie ham line about their three ages for women in Hollywood Babe, District attorney and driving Miss Daisy. Maybe that's true if anchor people too, and the farewell when did you are you caught up? I'm not caught up yet? Spoil anything? No? No, I think the idea is we're spoiling people who haven't seen like the beginning of the sixth season. But if you haven't finished it, we're not going to spoil. You've got some good stuff ahead for you can definitely, I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Meanwhile, Jonah is using his cancer to help his political career. That's so cynical, isn't it. Mad Yes, and he's like the most hated man in Washington, sort of all a Ted Cruz. Yes, that would be a close Yeah, you would be a close comparison. One of the things I really love about the show is how much of it is drawn from real life and real history or sort of a twist or a parody on history. I mean, I remember in the season finale of last season, the new president gets credit for freeing Tibet when it was really Selena who had been sort of working furiously with the Chinese, very much like Jimmy Carter with the Iranian hostages. And of course Reagan got credit for freeing them the day that he was sworn into Yes, that is I'm sure it was inspired. They do the writers, you know, every year do field trips to d C and try to get the nitty gritty stories behind, you know, how things are made or what you know, what went down. And I think this year they interviewed Romney for a few hours, like he came to the writer's room and told her. Yeah that he told him what it was like to lose an election and how you build yourself up. And so they really do their research before they start like structuring the season. And I remember reading in one of these episodes that when you talk to Romney, you recognized how much he had this big support system of family and friends and business to sort of catch him when he fell after the loss, and you guys just decided, Okay, well what would it be like to lose without any of that? And that's what we're going to make Selena go through. Yeah. Selena is terrible to her daughter, She's terrible to everyone. So it's actually quite fun to see her way at the bottom. It is fun to have to to have a character that is so unlikable and yet so popular. Yeah, what is it about her? You know, I've been told a few times maybe I should be concerned. Matt and Brian, Please do not confirm this that I remind people of Selena. Oh, oh my god. You do not want that comparison. Oh my god. I think it's sometimes because there's a flurry of activity around me. Sometimes I don't know what that makes me. You're Gary. I sometimes I hand my first to Brian and say, Gary, come on, make it snappy. Yeah, do you want some rose hip? Ti Katie. But we're going to take a break because I want to talk to Matt Walsh Moore about political reality versus beat. And that's right after this. Sean Spicer versus Mike McClintock. How do you assess the two together? That's the question. Uh, Mike actually at the podium in the press room is competent at his job. Sean Spicer is not. So my advice to Sean Spicer has quit, like, you should quit your job. I understand that he seems like someone who's been knocking around d C forever and he's finally in the spotlight, and people like that I want to hang on to whatever little power they have, but it's a terrible administration, and have some respect for yourself and quit that job. And what about the argument that some people make them that they should stay in the administration because they're a force for good, or if they were to leave, they'd just be replaced by somebody worse in that position. No, you're not. You're a puppet. You're you're a mouthpiece for a liar and a corrupt administration. So I don't see you affecting anything. I guess if you're an advisor inside there and you stick to your values, if you're Maddest or somebody like that, I guess you could make that argument. Yeah, Like, thank god, I'm trust me, guys, thank god, I'm in the room. Believe me, Believe me. The alterna, I just wait till the President's attention goes away, and we still do what we want to do. Like sure, I'm glad that guy's or that woman is there. Sure, And why do you think Sean Spicer stays around? I honestly feel like the way our show is a workplace comedy, so you get to see beyond Selena. You get to see the lives of the advisors and the you know, every schedulers and press secretaries, et cetera. And I think those people hang on because to be in the White House is the big show. Like that's what you want. You want that a list power. And so I think once you get it, your whole behavior, you've been inching towards this thing, and all your decisions and all your cutthroat sort of moves have gotten you in this position. I think you're just out of instant cling to it. And I also think people, and I think you can even see it in veep in a way, how insulated the world becomes and how these people become your family and you have very little interaction outside this world because it basically sucks the oxygen out of your entire being. You can see how almost both intoxicating and suffocating that can be. Yeah, and yeah, I think there's like history, you know, for Mike, there's some loyalty there. He's been with her for twenty years and I'm sure in the early days it was friendly and fun and now it's just like routine or whatever. But yeah, I think that it is. Uh, what else would you do? Could you really just unplugged and start a nursery in Santa Barbara or something? I don't think so. These people are animals. We talked about Sean Spicer a moment ago, and we have a clip where Spicer's Spicies American flag pin is upside down and the press court tells him during a press conference, lets let's have not heard thank you for this and with that, I'd be glad to take your questions. John Mark, John Robert's always helping with the fashion tips upside one of them. There's a stress. I appreciate that. Thank you. There's no promless your questions, Jesus. That's my favorite line of the whole thing. See, that's like we would have conversations like that in the room, like is that too bad? Like is that not believed. Would Mike really get on the podium with that. It's remarkable. We also have another clip that I want to play of Mike and Jonah talking about one of my personal favorites, a song from the Civil War called Yeah, let's listen to that. Oh my gosh, sing me a song just spin the old dial on radio with Clintock. See what it lands on. Really, I don't know, goober peas, I have no fucking idea what that is. It's an old Civil War song for real? Yeah, perfect, It's like a history lesson. Hit me up County No. Five six seven. When a horseman passes, soldiers have a rule they cry at their loudest mr, where's your mule? A little twanging it. But another pleasure, more enchanting er than these is wearing at your grunders eating Google. Pease, please, please pease. We were trying to get a public domain song for that moment on the set, and I was remembering my childhood and I learned that song. I'm like, that's got to be public domain. So I pitched that song. And in spite of all this absurdity, every Washington pro I ever talked to says, this is the most authentic show about politics today. I mean, how scary is that it really is? Because it's important business and to realize that the buffoons we play, our reflection of what happens in d C is scary. Yeah. By the way, I have a total girl crush on Julia Louis Dreyfuss. I'm sure I'm not alone. Mike. Uh, we're friendly, um, believe it or not. My late husband, I think did some business with her dad and I actually was looking at some photographs last night when we were on the Seinfeld set when I was interviewing her and Jerry for their final episode, or at least I think at the height of the popularity of that show, which I don't think ever dwindled. But what does she like to work to dubs? She was a guest on this podcast. Oh that's true. Yes, I definitely I traded on our friendship and brought her here. She would be on our podcast as well. But what does she like to work with? Because she seems like she's such a a brilliant comedian, needless to say, but also a really generous coworker. She is, Uh, Julia is the best. She keeps it real, she's fun, she's friendly. When we lived in Baltimore, we used to shoot, you know, four seasons we were there, there was more downtime, and she would you know, she was she was a good like mom, organized, she would host card parties or she would She's great and she's so talented. What's the worst thing about Julia Louie d the worst thing, the single most horrible quality. I don't know, it doesn't make sense. That's a good that's a good press secretary. I can't think. Uh No, she's really great and she's very like nice and normal and kind and super talented, Like she really sets the tone for the show, and she is I definitely have learned a ton, you know, working with her. She really is one of the best I've ever worked. What have you learned? Oftentimes, when you have a joke on the page, you're as an actor, you're sort of racing to get to that punchline. You know, your instinct is like, I just gotta get through this so I can say the joke. And she is so good at like taking these little detours on the way to the joke, so like relishing the set up and finding little comic moments in the setup of the joke that was sort of a revelation that doesn't speak highly of me, perhaps, but things like that or just she has sort of an unbelievable quest for specific in any scene, whether it's I'm gonna write my I'm gonna sign these bills, like what's the pen? Do you know what I mean? Like, she really loves the specifics, and I think that is another thing I'm amazed by. Now less people think that she's the only superstar on this show. I noticed in the g Q profile of you, Matt that that this paragraph, that this paragraph was written and appeared. It's within the improv world that he's most recognized mobbed even outside of the theater. He's the Pope and Harry Styles combined. He is the Sun and everyone else has been granted life by his mirror existence, and this makes him feel awkward. So I didn't realize that you were zeus in a particular setting, well in the improv world, because I started a theater that people care about in a school that people care about. It would be like I when I lived in New York, I actually found an apartment above our theater. So it's imagine like the dean of the college living in front of the buildings. So every day when you walk in your door, students want to talk to you and ask you about this art form. So in that world, I do have status, Yes I do. Meanwhile, let's let's let's let's talk about sort of the chatter on the set about the current administration and really among your friends and family members. I mean, what do you make of Donald Trump? What would we have to talk about? By the way, pro Trump on't but but I mean, are you all just every day, almost on an hourly basis, scratching your heads or shaking your heads. Well, the context of it, we we're on set the night of this the previous year's election in November, we were on set and it got gloomier and gloomier. We, like everyone suspected Hillary is probably gonna win. And so that was like the beginning of the Trump era. Penetrate our show, and they didn't change any of the storylines. Her being out of d C was turned out to be a blessing. And then yeah, I mean, everybody, the writers and the consultants on this show are super smart. And of course every day we're hearing about what came out of d C. The last moment, and uh, there is an obsession with the insanity. I have no insight into how terrible it is and how we can survive it other than you know, we just try to make the show funny and focus on small acts of kindness. I don't know, Like I can't dissect. It's a disaster. I mean, I'm completely fucking disappointed in so many ways. And in the nature of common decency has been erased, and the tradition of the office has been erased, and it's the acceptance of lies as standard procedure. It's not even so much of his policies. I couldn't even tell you how he lands on them. It's more the tradition of like reason has been ignored. It's interesting so much of what seemed farcical and ridiculous on the show has sort of come to pass in real life. I mean, I remember one episode in which Selena was live tweeting, and that was just absurd. I mean, a president couldn't be live time. We're trying to get into the situation room to knock the phone out of there exactly, and now that wouldn't even be People would watch that moment now and be like, why is why are they so scared of a tweet? Like what does that mean? It does? Like there are things that have changed and maybe next year, well I don't know what the stories are going to be, but maybe next year we'll have to consider uh. But again, we they the show the last president, we references Reagan. So they try and you never see people like Anderson Cooper Wolf Blitzer walk into our world. So they really try to cling to that bubble of fiction because it gives us more latitude and hopefully makes it show more timeless, I think. And they never they never mentioned it what political party Selena is? For example. Yeah, and that's why Publicans and Democrats like our show, like they oftentimes think, you know, they're making fun of the other party. You know, they don't see themselves in it, like way to skewer the Republicans and like, well we're kind of getting everybody actually, But okay, okay, but what party do you really think Selena is? I don't know. I mean, you could go through her issues and probably find her somewhere. Do I have a hunch? I mean, what do you think I'll say that? What do you think she is? What do I think she is? If she had to be one party. What party would she be? I tend to think she's a Democrat, but maybe I'm biased by the fact that in real life all the people playing these characters or Democrats, and so I tend to think of them like Democrats. I'm not sure that she's actually put forward a policy that would reveal one way or the other. Although she sort of did that Job's program. Yeah, that that seemed a little bit more big government had early on some green energy programing, so those would be more progressive. Yeah, she's more progressive. Sure, I just want to say it so HBO doesn't fire me or something like that. I'm such a company man. Do you think there's something about women in politics, and particularly a woman as president that drives a lot of the humor and criticism. I mean a lot of people are now looking at this in the wake of Hillary's loss. Rebecca trey Stir wrote an interesting piece in New York Magazine, also former guest on this show, about you know I sound like I'm just played. Yeah, I know, somebody's got to. Katie mentioned that today's show interview with Julia not even our podcast. But I'm sorry, but to what extent do you think we still hold female political leaders to a different standard. Oh my gosh. Uh, well it is still a novelty unfortunately, Like I don't think we've had a female vice president office, and we haven't had a female president, so it is fiction right now. So I think that was the impetus for the show when Armando and Julia got together, is like, you know, she's a woman in office, but also she's in the worst office, which is vice president. But that's a big question, like, well, do you think a lot of the humor comes from women being judged and treated differently. I mean I remember somebody saying that if you're a woman in politics and you're too strong, you're a bit and if you're two weak, well you're just too weak and you can't be elected to an executive job, and so finding that sweet spot in between is almost impossible. That's a good point. I mean, sure women are definitely held to hire standard of course in politics. And I think it's funnier too for Julia to be filthy and talk like a sailor because she's an attractive woman, Like I think there's something inherently funnier about that, Like if you saw a gruff heavy set man with booze on his breath saying those things. It's almost more expected, so us they do play with the convention of like the stuff you're speaking to. Yeah. On the other hand, she's so ridiculously self involved, in so vain, so narcissistic. Then, you know, do you ever worry that having those qualities kind of underscore what some people fear is more present in women than in men, even though we all know that's bullshit. So do you think people will see the show and because she's such a narcissist and so vain, they might associate all women with that portrayal, or you know, somehow it will be subversively it doesn't help. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, uh yeah, I mean I guess that is a possible interpretation. What uh boy, These are good questions. I wish I was smarter, and they ultimately feel like, I mean, Selena is terrible to women. Selena hates women. She does. She's so brutal, mean to women, And you can go through the episodes and like and obviously her daughter, she has a terrible relationship with her daughter. Ay, yeah, Amy, She's brutal to Amy, like she's brutal to everyone. Gary and she's scared of Sue. She's scared of Sue. She's scared of Sue. Yeah, but I think it's awesome that whatever. Julia is so funny and she's at the head of a funny show, Like I would think that does more good for the cause than uh works against it. How about that for an answer. I think that's a good answer. So what would you like to do, Matt, You've got this pretty good gig going. Um, are there things that you'd like to do? Um? In addition to continuing with Beep, Yeah, I always tend to do a movie or two in the summer's off. I've directed two small, like improv movies. I'll probably direct another one. I'm writing a couple of things that are like features. So yeah, I I enjoy doing movies. You have riggsby Bear coming out, We have bragsby Bear coming out. Thank you for the plug that comes out at the end of July. We will you did that with SNL cast member Kyle Mooney, Deaths Right. I did that one, and then Feudal and Stupid Gesture comes out sometime this year, which is about the Lampoon, the evolution of the Lampoon magazine into the thing it became and all the people who came through that world. That's really cool. And I was very interested to see that you have a starring role in a rom com called Under the Eiffel Tower. Tell me about that, Matt Well. Someone a couple of years ago said I have a movie you could be the lead, and we're going to film in France, and I was like, can I bring the family? And didn't even read it. So with that premise, it's taken two years of indie you know, indie films, scraping for money, writing out people quitting. But lo and behold, I'm going in July to Paris to film a movie and I'm bringing the kids and Morgan, my wife's comming. And what's a movie about. It's about out a bourbon salesman played by me, who makes the mistake of proposing to this family friend, this woman who's only like twenty six or twenty seven, just out of grad school, and that just goes south from there. He's on a drinking bender, hooks up with this rugby player and then meets a woman who wants a vineyard and they fall in love. Oh that sounds so fun. Yeah, it is fun. It's glamorization of French culture, which we Americans love to see on film. And there's some funny people David Wayne and mckello, Watkins and Gary Cole so well Gary Cole. So you have a little reunion with Gary Cole. Yes, Gary's a friend, a legit friend, so yes, he will be out there. So we're all sort of psychic, you know, go overseas and relax for a while. I love him on V two because he's such a great character. He's so funny, and you know, I grew up with him and weird like, well, no, I didn't grow up with him. I grew up. I grew up watching him. Sorry, I grew up watching him and he used to play very dark characters. And to see him, to see him really flex his comedy muscles is so much fun to me. The other guy I love and veep Matt is the kind of he looks very much like a political operative. Kevin Dunn. I love Kevin Dunn. He is so great. He comes up with the funniest one liners. He talks about his nuts a lot. I do notice that Katie's always partial to a good testicle joke. You're his demo Katie, you're hey, wait, wait, no, Kevin's amazing, So it's Gary. Those guys were like Chicago actors when I was in the city, so they're like real Thespians as well as being super hilarious, funny human beings, you know. And speaking of super hilarious, by the way, the episode when I told friends of mine that I was talking to you that came up the most was the Master Cleans. Oh really, yes, that's so funny, which was hysterical. Oh no, breakfast for this guy who's offering you are looking at a guy on the Master Cleans. I feel amazing. What the lunatics fuck is the Master Cleans? It sounds like Nazi domestic policy. Yeah, it was last season. You wanted to describe what's happening. Mike is on a Master Cleans and he's like sort of fasting and just drinking like lemon cayenne, maple syrup, one of those things. And uh, I give the writer's knew someone, but apparently you have to like drink it every fifteen minutes or you will literally crash on your glue faint. You'll just faint. So Mike forgot to bring his bottle to the podium and was like losing his mind. And just during the briefing. During the briefing, Julia has this great line where she where she walks in the room after the the juice had been spilled, and she said, it smells like Puerto Rico in here, which is probably vaguely racist, but I was funny. Yeah. Anyway, Well, it's so fun to talk to you, Matt and listen. Thank you for you and the whole VAT crew for entertaining us, uh season after season and it's a real highlight of of my Sunday night and uh. And it's so great because you can binge watch Beep, which is something that my husband and I often do. So yeah, it's only a half hour, Come on, you can you can watch a whole season in one sitting, practically. Thank you so much for coming by next time. I hope I get to see you in person. I thank you with the premiere. Yes, we did years years back and that premiere, but that's okay. We didn't have a premier this year. We didn't have a premiere this year. Maybe next year, you guys, if we have a premiere, I'll try to get one of you in. It'll probably go to Katie. You get it though, Yeah, she's old friends with Juliet's a Gary, always a Gary. Thanks Matt, thank you, Thanks a huge thank you to our great team that helps make this show happen every time we do it. Our producer Gianna Palmer, our sound engineers Jared O'Connell in New York and Ryan Conner in l A. And Alison Bresnik, who slays our social media. Also Emily Beena of Katie Kirk Media and Nora Ritchie who always provides great extra editorial support. And Mark Phillips whoever you are, wherever you are. Thank you as always for our terrific theme music. Katie Kurrik and I are the executive producers of this show and folks, please drop us a line. You can leave a voicemail at nine to nine to two four four six three seven or email us at comments at current podcast dot com. We really do read the comments and listen to the comments. As for social media, I'm at Goldsmith B on Twitter. Katie is all over the social sphere at Katie Kurrik on Twitter and Instagram, Katie dot Kurrik on Snapchat, which is on Facebook. She is everywhere. I'm everywhere, and I tried to do a social media detox, and what can I say, You're falling off the wagon. You're pretty addicted. Yeah, and hey, if you like our show, we'd love for you to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Please subscribe as well. If you don't like our show, I don't know what you're doing listening to this part of the credits, but shut up on the ratings and reviews. Please