Martha Stewart has dominated all things domestic for nearly 35 years. But what about the woman behind the empire? Katie and Brian pay a visit to Martha's pristine office for a candid conversation over some apple-cranberry crisp. Martha recalls what it was like growing up in New Jersey as one of six kids, getting her first book deal, serving time in prison and what it was like to work on a TV show with Donald Trump. Plus, she discusses her new cookbook and her collaboration with Snoop Dogg. Nothing is off-limits. It's a good thing.
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Hi Brian, Hi Katie, and hello lovely listeners. This week, we are very excited because we're taking you all with us to Martha Stewart headquarters. Literally, well literally we interviewed Martha at her company headquarters, Martha Stewart Living Omni Media, and had a really wonderful time, didn't we We did. The offices are incredible. They take up a giant city block in Chelsea, right on the Hudson River, and they definitely passed the white glove test. They were beautiful and so clean Martha, Ladies and gentlemen, no surprise here is not particularly messy. But we also walked around the joint afterwards and that place is stocked, isn't it. It's amazing, from color coded design books to a five thousand dollar cappuccino machine that she talks about to test kitchens. And also they have tons of props for when they do shoot. They have a million different shares and napkins and tablecloths and even a bin that said Hanky's. There's even a Martha Stewart cafe in the lobby. As Martha herself might say. It's a good thing. Brian. Anyway, for nearly thirty five years, she has dominated all things domestic. She has lent her good taste and her name to everything from TV shows to cookbooks, to carpet tiles, meal kits, magazines, and much much more. She's like a cottage industry. And I think she has actually made elegance accessible and said to the average homemaker, male, female, whatever, somebody who wants to nest and make their home their castle, that it's doable and actually affordable. And Martha, after all, is the woman who New York Magazine once called an emblematic figure of our times. And in our conversation today, we wanted to get a better sense of the woman behind the empire, things like how on earth does she stay so productive? What motivates her? I mean, she's incredible. I think she's got a new cookbook out, the Slow Cooker Cookbook, which is her eighty ninth book, and we should mention she's seventy six years old. She looks amazing. But her energy, I mean she is indefatigable and no signs at all of slowing down. Just as ambitious as ever. That's right. In her latest foray into the entertainment world is a show with Snoop Dogg called pot luck dinner, which is a bit of a double Entendre came up with that name herself. Funny funny funny stuff is Johnny Carson might say. Anyway, here's our conversation, and please ignore the chewing, because we did enjoy some delicious apple Crisp. I said that like Julia Child, didn't I like Martha delicious apple? Chris. Here's our conversation with the one and only Martha Stewart. Brian, your dream finally came true. We're sitting here air with the one and only Martha Stewart, not only doing our podcast, but we're actually in Martha's office. I wanted to be in my office. You wanted to be in some dingy conference room someplace. Now we actually wanted to be on your farm in Bedford, or your estate in Maine, or your house in East Hampton. But this is much easier. I'd rather be in any of those places to spend the whole weekend with you. Another dime. Let's do a block that that would be great, a podcast in real time for a weekends. Tell us though, about this office. It's very cool, very industrial, and very white. Yes, well this was this is the st Lee High building, one of seven buildings in New York City that is one city block in size, and it was at the time it was built, it was a storage warehouse building. And when I found the space, which was almost twenty years ago, this floor, the ninth lore was about a hundred different little like switch shops. There was a letter press. There are a lot of really loud industrial kinds of company switch shops, but they were not just one big switch. That's right, it was. It was a dollar a square foot, that's what people. That was the rent whole. We have the whole floor soon to be just the south side of the floor and how many people um right now it'll be about three d people on this floor. But we have satellite offices to for other ones. I'm part of Sequential Brands Group now and the Martha brand is now licensed through Sequential, but it is but we still do our TV shows, and we still do our various and sundry other appearances, and make all our products for Macy's and and Home Depot and Michael's. And actually working harder now that I probably worked ten years ago, although who knows. I mean, I don't keep track. Before Brian interjects and has a question. I just want to mention if people here a little noise. I'm drinking a delicious Martha Stewart cappuccino and that's a Martha coffee. That's still say coffee that we sell in our cafe down on the first floor. Did you see the cafe? Did? It was so cool? What's it like walking into no building and seeing the Martha Stewart cafe. I want the Katie currentt cafe. Well, you should have one. You should have one on the coffee. Oh yes, you can buy the coffee downstairs at the cafe nowhere else and online I went on it is Martha Stewart. Martha Stewart cafe, UM dot com. We're working on a whole line of these cafes now. The whole team is down the hall working away today people from all over the country or in today, looking at and tasting samples of different things that we're going to be selling at the kind of Howard Schultz run for his money. UM. It's a very different concept as a smaller footprint. Basically in office buildings like this one. This this building has I think over five hundred people working in it, and there was no cafe. Well, looking at this wall of Emmy's that I'm staring at. I wouldn't bet against you. But before we we delve into your bio, which is something we do on this show. We do, we do, we do, But before we go all the way back. It was interesting you just mentioned your company being sold, and I think a lot of people remember that moment when Martha Stewart Living on the Media went public and you served homemade briyosh at the New York stock Et. Tell us a little bit about the journey of the company since then to the point that you're sort of selling it now you're no longer. That was the probably one of the most exciting days in my life, except for the day that my daughter Alexis was born. Uh, and maybe the day I got married, and then two days that my grandchildren were born. Uh uh, maybe my cats and my dogs, But most exciting day of your life. But I have a lot of I have a lot of pets. So this was a very exciting day going public because I had worked really hard to build a superb company, Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia, and it was kind of a cutting edge company, and this was a company that actually took into consideration the Internet, the television, the printed word, the media as well as merchandising. So it was really truly on the media. And we still are. We're still on the media. I love I love the idea of being omni media. And we took ourselves away from publishing the magazine with Time Inc. We started publishing on our own uh And that day, um, we went public at a share of I think it was eighteen dollars a share, which went up to about thirty two dollars. I was a multibillionaire at that day. It was so day. And I drove up Madison Avenue after after the long day, and I said, I said, God, I can buy pretty much anything. Did you know? I was so stupid. I should have I should have spent it all then because everything was much cheaper then than it is now. And I, well, I should have bought, could have, should have, would have, could have. That's a whole chapter in my autobiography, which I am penning right now. You are making one too. We're gonna I'm not gonna tell you anything else then because you'll you'll copy me, my sister. But that should would could is I'm sure it's a big chapter in your life too, And it's one of those things that happens to everybody. I mean you. I remember every single antique that I didn't buy it, every single auction I went to from the time I was married in nineteen sixty one. Can you imagine seem to expend of at the time. No, it just seemed though I can't afford it, or maybe it will fit. And I should have bought everything. I should have been the biggest consort because but I am a very frugal person and I still, Oh my god, and my daughter is more frugal than you are. My daughter points out all the time, why don't you have your own airplane? Mom? Why don't you have your own yacht? And the river? And you know, she she knows. I could have had pretty much anything. I still actually I've done pretty well in the real estate department, and I should still do some of those things. But I'm not an extravagant liver. I live simply personally, although I do have you know, I live on a farm up. I know, but it's simple. I don't know. I I looked at your blog the last few days preparing for this interview, and I thought, who lives like this, maybe the Queen of England. No, I think the Queen of England and Martha I don't have fault, but we have a lot of staff anyway. Well, I think the thing about Martha's that, you know, I've always thought that you have made elegance accessible and I think you predated sort of this whole notion of nesting and of making beautiful things and making a house a home and all that, And what what made you realize that there was an appetite for that in this country. I was brought up by a mother who really took the art of homemaking to the next level. She made everything, She sewed our clothes, she canned the tomatoes, she made a delicious meal three times a day for eight people. My mom was you know, she was a very good example to me of wanting to elevate a simple life into a good, really good life, healthy life. And we were simple, I mean we I lived in a in a three bedroom house on Elm Place and the New Jersey see which I go back to see sometimes that people almost had a heart attack when I knocked on the door the last time, And did you bring them some cookies? At least? So I just went to I said, you know, I used to live here. They said, we know you used, and uh, could I please see my old bedroom which I shared with my sister Kathy, And I would put Kathy on the right hand side of the bed, which had the night light where I could read. I would make her go to sleep on that side to warm the bed because we didn't keep it. We kept the house pretty cold, saving fuel all that stuff. Um. And so then I would drag her to her side of the bed. Before Martha was in, she had six years younger. She she has not forgiven me. Believe me. Um, it sounds like your your mom was like the CEO of the house. Well she was. She was pretty much my dad was the CEO of the garden and the fixture upper of the place. Uh. And we had an next door neighbors. We could throw a stone and hit the next door neighbors door, you know, but we were friends with our neighbors. We had. It was a nice street. It was a very pleasant place to grow up. And I think a lot of people imagine you're like this major wasp, and I know I'm I'm a daughter of two Polish American people. They were born here but my grandparents, all four grandparents were born in Poland, and they came to the United States on ships, and you know, they could see the island where they landed, right here in New York Harbor, and they signed in and two went to Buffalo, New York. My grandfather was a trained in My grandfather was ski My mother's father was a trained iron monger decorative iron work, and uh, and my other my father's family all moved to Jersey City. I think about you because I know how close you were to your mom, Big Martha, unbelievably close. And and did you ever come on the Today Show with me? You know, I don't know. I feel like she might have, but I feel like I've met her definitely, and I know you always spoke of her. And it was really really great mother. Uh, and one of those mothers who had six kids and every child was equal, no matter what, no matter what the bad things we did, we were all equal. And then my parents and that was until the day she died. We were all equally all around her bed when she died. And she died at four and almost ninety four years old. So she's she had a great life, never sick. She just finally decided it was time. How many years ago was that that was about? I don't. I don't remember things like years, um, which is a good thing. Do you remember things are years? Well? I remember, I do. My mom died three years ago on day and and and so I remember everything, but not I just I think about my mom so much, and I missed her so much. So I wondered if you felt the same. I missed my mother a lot, and I wonder, I wonder, you know, what would mother think about this or that? Um, when I'm making a delicious meal. She would come over on Sundays, pretty much every Sunday from from Western Connecticut where she lived with my sister Laura. She would drive herself and then when she got in past ninety, I used to sit and send somebody to pick her up. Um, and she would come to my house and eat the healthiest, delicious lunch. She had a great appetite that she'd take a walk with me. Then she'd have a massage. I always got my massure over for mom, and uh, and we'd go to a movie and she'd have a fabulous day and um, but she was What I really loved about her was that egalitarian attitude towards all of her children, and so even though her daughter was rich and famous, the other five kids were just as famous, just as successful in her eyes. Yeah, So it occurred to me as we were preparing for this that you know, you were a model early in your career. You were a stockbroker for several years, and you didn't really become quote Martha Stewart until you were in forty. I was a late bloomer, which is like Julia Child. Actually that's who it reminded me of. I was a late bloomer. And my gynecologist, uh there, I don't know he even called me a late bloomer. So in what context? And because said that I was a late bloomer in terms of my in terms of my business life. And isn't that funny that your doctor would call you a late bloomer? I thought it was great, like like my gardener calling me a late bloomer. So when your first book came out, well, I Martha didn't really answer that earlier question though, which is, how did you know that this was a really potentially huge market for what you were saying After being a stockbroker and and working with people's money. I then retired to Westport, and I did started looking around for what you were doing, a catering business, and I started a catering business with a friend called Norma Collier, and she was a famous mall it at the time, and she wanted to have a business too, So we started this catering business dealing with people's appetites other than their and not their pocketbooks really but the same thing. And they were very similar. I mean, people could be real nasty or real nice, money or appetite. And then Norma had to retire early because she was way too hard the work. And I liked the physical labor. I liked the building a restaurant every night and then breaking it down and cleaning the cards. I mean, believe me, I'm a glutton for punishment worker. I am. I am a worker. B I just brought up like that. But um, I realized that the art of homemaking really and truly had not been celebrated in an appropriate way. And I thought of my mother all the time. Here's this fabulous woman who was also a very hard worker, but she hadn't been celebrated as a homemaker. And to be able to raise the kids on they were making when my when my mother wasn't teaching, my father was working. They were living on a salary of about eleven thousand a year. And this is a long time ago, but still that's very little money to manage. That's why the garden was so good. Yeah, that's why the garden was so big. That's why the clothing was made by hand. The sewing machine was always busy. Mom didn't get very many hours of sleep, you know, the whole thing. And we were not poor. We did not consider ourselves poor in any way. So when did you realize that this thing you were doing, that homemaking and cooking and sewing and gardening, could become a business. And well, I started writing books in two And I'm sure you have my Entertaining Book, because I probably and I actually still remember the pretty picture of you on the cover. Your hair was long and I think it was maybe in a half updo or something, and I yes, and I remember your basket weave um with frosting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it wasn't that in there? Oh yeah, definitely. Well I think I read that before I started. I started to write books because I started, I started to realize that my friends were just like me. We all needed some encouragement to entertain better. We needed better recipes that could be done, that aren't weren't too complicated, And there were no at that time, very few illustrated cookbooks. And I, you know, I consider myself as crazy, I know, but I considered myself kind of a really good cook at the time. And so I wrote this book entertaining and my publisher I remember saying, if you sell ten thousand copies, you should be happy. I said, I know twenty five thousand people who will buy this book, because I have been catering for a while and I had all South Bese clients. I had the museums in New York hired my me for my services. I did parties at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. How many didn't. So it's it's way way over a million copies. So um, I don't know the latest. I should, I should know the exact number. But you don't wake up in the morning and say, let's look and see. I'm sure. I'm sure it's way over because by the way, that was for the first of what over a Well, we're up to we're up to ninety now, and we just published here this is the right. That's what a new one called Slow Cooker nine. And then the Newlywed cookbooks coming out very shortly, and that will be our nine. And then Martha's Flowers comes out in February. I'm excited about that. So does that teach you how to arrange flowers? How to grow and arrange? It's growing, enjoying and arrange flowers. What's your favorite flower? I like fragrant flowers. I like lilacs. Oh, I love I like true lips, I like roses, I love you know. I I love piannies. But I feel like they become everybody's favorite flowers, so that makes me not like them. Don't don't feel like that. Now you know what I'm meant to Martha? Well, obviously hydranges, I don't. My hydranges were on steroids. They needed this year. This was the big year for hydranges, right, Oh my go apples like apple. It was crazy. But I'm really into dahlia's right now. Are fabulous. They're so pretty. They're so gigantic. Dahlias and zinnias, I think together they're pretty. They're pretty. Brian. Yes, every now and then I can surprise you. It's time to take a quick break. We'll be back with more surprises and more Martha right after this. And now back to our conversation with the one and only Martha Stewart. You're so incredibly productive, all these books and TV shows and magazines, and I ready only need four to five hours of sleep per night. Can you walk us through a typical Martha day? I mean, what did you do today? For example, Today's today's like New York, So that's not so interesting. Yesterday was a good day. Okay, Okay, so yesterday I have I don't have live in help, but I do require that my housekeeper or keepers. Sometimes I have to come in at seven, so I can't be in bed if my housekeeper comes. I just don't do that. So I get I'm up before they're up, and I take um the covers off the bird cages, and I have read factor canaries in my house. They're beautiful and they're singing. And then I have three cats and five dogs in Bedford and where I live most of the time I can I commute to New York and so um, they're they're all kindness. Am I taken care of? By the time the housekeeper comes on a Sunday. I only have one housekeeper and I have a driver who also comes. I read somewhere you have four drivers. Well yeah, but not all the same time. No, no, I know, but I have my days are days are so long and you can only they can only we can't forty hours a week and they can't be tired. So that's why. All right, but um, but is just jealous. But all right, so we've we've taken care of them. So then, um and so then I I make breakfast for everybody. So I made the cappuccinos for everybody, because the eggs come from your chickens. Right, Yes, yes, you've mentioned. We have salmon for breakfast because some a friend had sent me two beautiful big salmon's. A lion caught salmon's from Alaska last week and I had to eat them. So I poached salmon. I'm doing I'm doing a little blog on that on how to poach the salmon and its oats, pretty pictures, and so I photographed the blog and I make the salmon. No, no, we just eat it with lemon juice. It's so tasty. Yeah, like yogurt, cucumbers, nothing, nothing for breakfast. That this is breakfast and then for lunch and so then so then after that I and my green juice. We have green juice every morning. Everybody drinks green juice because it's like power. So what do you put in your green So it's spinach, celery, parsonally mint, maybe a piece of fruit of some sort, like a pear. Green pear is good. Um, a piece of melon or to papaya or mango. Whatever. It's very good juice. Everybody's delicious and very drink that. Then I went on a horseback ride, and that was at ten o'clock. I was ready for the horseback right after doing you know, getting make sure everybody's doing lots of horses and I have six horses. And so yesterday I rode Rins and my uh and my horse groom Sarah, she rode Ramon and we went off property and two and a half hours later came home. I was dying, as is a long horseback ride, and we were doing a lot of trotting. And that we went down Maple Avenue and through the woods, and Bedford has a has a series of bridle trails about three hundred miles, so you can get lost, you can have a good time does Ralph Lauren live up there? He was extraor to me, we like, hey, Ralph, Martha, Hi, Ralph riding by. I'm I'm the farm at to Ralph's stay. Eat. I'm the farm at Okay, yes, the modest farm next to Ralph, a very nice neighbor. And then, oh, I should have told you. Then then I'll tell you about Friday night afterwards. But and then I came back from the horseback ride. I made the lunch, so I sautade some onions from the garden, fresh onions, and some red and yellow peppers, and I made a for Tata, delicious for Tata, studded with little lots of cream cheese, which I like for Tata. I don't know why, but I just like it. And I we had little cheese puffs that were left over from Friday night supper. And that was a salad of dark red and green lettuce um from a night's supper, the one that was on the blog. But you, and then when I didn't finish my day though, then sorry, then can I just interrupt and ask a question? How many people did you prepare lunch for? And did you have no? No, it was just just the people who were hanging, you know, working around in the place. So Carlo's Jama and Frank and who else was there yesterday? A dawa. Then we made fifty gallons of apple cider, or would you bring some of that apple cider over here? Fifty gallons of this and you know how hard it is to crush the apples. It's delicious apple. Take a sip, it's so good. What kind of apples did you use? Who knows? On my property? We must have fifty varieties of apps, so delicious I've ever had. We compare it to other I think it's really what makes it so good, just the variety of apples, I think. Um. So we did that. And while they were doing that, I shucked and scraped the corn off, about maybe sixty ears of corn. And I searched and I saw tade all the kernels and a little bit of butter with some some water, and then I froze. I think I froze ten quarts of corn kernels. And then I made a great pot of from again, there's so many tomatoes. I made a great pot of tomato soup, just tomatoes and onions. Just threw them all in this giant pot and cooked and cooked and cooked until then put it through the food so you get all the seeds and skits on. I think we made eight quarts of tomato soup and relaxing Sunday. So then I went, Oh, my friend called Memory. My friend Memory called and said, you have to go see this garden. It's on the open days and Greenwich open Days is the Garden Conservancy, which is a very fantastic organization. I belonged to that, and people who belong open their gardens to other gardeners. So I went to see Mr Landman's garden and Greenwich, which is incredible, fifteen acre garden. Made me sick because because if I feel jen we're happy for him. When I when I get jealous, the only time I ever jealous, it's not envy, it's just jealous. I it's anyway. His garden is so beautiful. Then I went to see my friend Memory, who was lying in bed because she has a cut on her leg. Who knows. And then I left there. I got in a bad mood because she was in bed. And then I went home and I went we searched for my missing peacocks. Were always missing two peacocks. They were out eating with the it's a busy day. It is a busy day. It sounds fun, it is fun. The peacocks were hanging out with the wild turkeys. Now there's a gang of five wild male turkeys and my two male peacocks that I allow out of their enclosure. Uh, they have kind of befriended the wild turkeys. And is there any nookie going on? Peacocks a band of boys and uh, so we could tell her forever. I mean, you don't know, these are so silly. I hope this is not boring to you. Love you love. I went to get a massage. I went to a Chinese reflexology and did something where. Then I went home and I did a little bit more cooking. But I had a column do this morning, so I had to work on my column on the restoration of furniture. So I had to write that, and then I went and watched the Emmys. Thank god the Emmys were on, because I had such a good time watching the Emmy's and that relaxed me. And that's that was my day. See, that's the Sunday. So speaking of Donald Trump, right, because that was the topic when he absolutely should have won. And by the way, didn't Alec look good. Lass he looks so good. I thought he looks so it's a couple of and he looked great. Yeah. Yeah, you were there and that was a fun night and opening night of the the US Open. But can I ask you about him seriously because after um, well there's another topic. But after your release from prison, you did Martha Stewart the Apprentice or the apprent to Martha Stewart and this office. It was right here in this office. We built their bedrooms, here, their kitchens. The whole thing was the most monstrous production you have ever seen. And Donald Trump was the executive producer of it. Well, yes, one with Mark Burnett. And Mark Burnett promised me when I agreed to do it, that I would fire Donald at the end of my show, that Donald, we're going to replace him. Yes, and Donald did not want to be replaced. By the time of Blind President, I know, he maligned my show so badly. He was nasty. Well, no, who knows why he wanted. He wanted to stay on TV. He had he had, you know, he drank the kool aid and he loved it so much. I show did really well in Europe, and it did really well in Japan. But um, but the ratings in America were not as good as Donald's ratings. But I was as outrageous as Donald either. I think people like outrage and as know, after this whole year, Um and so so. But he but we remained, uh some semi cordial. And what did you learn about him from working with him? Well, he had very little to do with my show. What did you learn about him from what he said about you around? I was not happy and my daughter. He said nasty things about my daughter and she was on the radio at the time he was, and she was on the Apprentice for a little bit and I did not like that, and none of us did, and it was not nice. I would never say anything untoward of his about his children. You don't talk about people's children, but he does. How do you think he's doing as president? Do we have to really get there? I was not. I was not. I'm not happy at the state of things at all. You were a big Hillary Clinton supporter. Did you have you read her new book yet? No? I haven't. I've I've listened to many of the interviews and have you have you interviewed here? We had an interviewed or where hoping to get her on our podcast. You know, she had known her. I did her first interview when she became First Lady in the early I remember, I remember, and I saw her in the attempt. And she was walking on Louie Pond Lane the other day, really, and I was walking my dogs and she I bumped into I saw the black van's first and I thought, oh God, who's coming? And it was Hillary. She know, she was with a friend, Liz Robbins, and we talked for quite a while standing there in the middle of the street. And uh, and she looked well and she told me her book was just about to be released. It was right, I guess it was a week before her book came out. And um, so I haven't read it yet, but but she has to speak out, she has to say what she said. And uh, and you know, it's a it's too bad. She's really damned if she does. Damned if she does. And I mean I've been, I've been, I guess, not surprised, but it's still I'm always taken aback at the vitriol and hatred that is directed at her. And you know, well, today I saw Bernie Sanders on Morning Joe now he I don't know if he was on there or they were just they were just showing film with Bernie. Nobody has pointed out Bernie saying, oh, I did so much to support Hillary this. Why isn't anybody pointing out that Bernie Sanders lost the election. Well, a lot of his supporters are kind of of the view that she stole it with the super delegates, and nothing could be more wrong. She actually beat him fifty in terms of the popular vote in the primaries, but that's not the that's not the approach. Like he he really disturbed the election by being the third kendidate, Bernie Sanders, and I never felt as if he really supported her fully And all those shots of her, of Bernie at the convention, he looked like he'd been sucking on a limit, right, I mean, he did not look particularly pleased or supportive. I mean, I wouldn't want my supporters that she is. If she had put him on the ballot as the vice president, that would have helped a lot. So you've been on the receiving end of some sexist treatment and behavior. How big of a role do you think sexist and played in the election last year? A lot a lot. Obviously, I think people still are not comfortable. Not all, not all people, but many people are still uncomfortable with the notion of a woman in power very much. So. I'm sure you've dealt with that, oh, of course, But but I'm strong enough to sort of brush it off. And when you're running for president's pretty hard just to brush it off. Although I probably would have behaved a lot differently than Hillary did on those debate stages, what would you have done? I told him to get lost. I mean, she she was calling her names, and she wasn't calling him names. Call him some names. Really, I don't know. Do you catch her decor? Room did not, She didn't. I don't think people have to be so decorous to ugly people. What's the what's the old line about you get into a mud pit with a pig and the pig is gonna win. Let me ask you. The one thing, uh many questions we had, Martha, is and I don't think you've talked about it that much, is you know, I look at you and everything you've accomplished, and then you had this moment in your life when you were in prison, and I imagine in my mind's eye that was sal I went to Yale for five months. I read a lot, I learned a lot. And what was that like for you mean, was that sort of like? It was horrifying. It was horrifying. And no one, no one should have to go through that kind of indignity, really except for murderers, and and you know there are a few other categories, but no one should have to go through that. It's a very very awful thing. Having said that, I mean, was it a growth experience in any way? I know that you would read out to a lot of the other women, and you can make lemons out of lemonade, and what what? What hurts you makes you stronger? No, none of those adages fit at all. It's a horrible experience. Nothing is good about it. Nothing was What was so horrible about it? Oh, being taken away from your family, being maligned, being treated the way you were treated, it's horrible, um, and especially when one does not feel one deserves such a thing. I mean, I was not a bad person. Well, I think a lot of people are under the misconception that you were convicted of insider trading. You were You were not. I wasn't even accused of insider trading. But I don't want to get into that either. I mean, it's just like like and one thing I do not ever want is to be identified or I don't want that to be the major thing of my life. It's just not it's just not fair. But um, but it's not a good experience and it doesn't make you stronger. I was a strong person to start with, and thank Heavens, I was, and I can still hold my head up high and know that I'm fine. Did you get to know any of your fellow inmates and what was that like? I know you helped them with certain things and become friendly with them. Um, No, I'm not really friendly. I wouldn't say that. As much as I tried. I've tried to help certain of them. Um, there are lots and lots of odd stories and disturbing things that go on in a in a incarceration like that, even a minimum security, well, you couldn't walk in minimum security. Still couldn't walk out the gate, you know, across the river. Um it was. Um, there's still guards and they're still it's still nasty and it's still but but that's that's America has so many people in prison. You go to Finland and there's about I think there's like a hundred people in prison in Finland or some tiny number. Uh. They don't believe in in that kind of incarceration. Uh, And I don't think we should have the numbers of people in prison. And the most of the women that were in this in this institution were there because of the New York state drug laws. And now we have legalized marijuana in seven states. I think it is Uh, that's incredible. And those and people who had a few ounces of marijuana on them and are in there for twenty years, it just doesn't make sense to some of those people get to be released as as a result. I know that there was a big movement with President Obama to change sort of minimum mandatory. Much was done, not not enough was done. So on a happier note, you've had this friendship with Snoop Dogg. But I think as uh surprised and delighted some of your some of your fans more just surprised others of your people. People seem to really like our public dinner party. Yeah no, there of course there's a double one ding Sarcastic. That was my name. I came up with that name. He did just very get to know each other. The green we had the green meal, we had all kinds of stuff, funny names. Well, he was on My show a couple of times, and he was always just a pleasant guest and fun and made people and and the response was always good. Did you get a contact high from the green room after he came not in New York? He didn't. He didn't partaken, and he was on my my show once and honestly, I opened the door and it was like one of those cartoons where this smoke just billowed down. I think, I think, I don't. I think that's probably why he doesn't come to New York very much, because he's not free to just that's true. This was in California, yea, oh no, California, and then um, and then you go to then Um we did the Justin Bieber Roast together and that was that which is hilarious for anybody. It was. It was hilarious. And there I did get a contact high sitting next to him for four hours on the stage. Oh you couldn't help it. I mean he had these you know, he was smoking for four hours right next to us. Oh yeah, soun doing the show with him. Yeah, it really is fun and it's um. I call it a melding of cultures. I mean, here's Compton and Nutley probably not so probably not so different. Way down under. I met his mother. He brought his mother to the show. She's a lovely lady, very intelligent, very well spoken. He had other family members there. I mean, it's it's kind of an interesting situation. And then we have these great guests and we cook, and he's a fun cook. He and he is his uncle Rio, who is this jovial um, very fancily dressed on gentlemen, who wears very jazzy clothes, you know, spats and gold suits and whatever and hats and anyway, Uncle Rio kind of creates all the recipes for Snoop and my my straight laced team of Thomas, Joseph and uh and the rest of the kitchen here they're they're all like but it's fun. I mean, it's fun. I think, what's so great about you? You you're always reinventing yourself. You're always Change is good. That's one of my mottos. Change is good. And when you're through changing, you're through in my book, So and you've done that you've changed, You've changed so nicely and evolved, and I've tried, but you do you do, You're you're You're prettier now than you were when I first met you, by the way, And uh, I think it's because I had such a fat pace when I was younger, and aging makes you kind of hollow at a little bit. But had had enough excess that I don't look on you not now look normal, right, you look great, And so I think all of that is uh, is good and um, and it's been it's been interesting to also challenge myself. I mean, it's hard to go on the stage with Jamie Foxx and um Puff Daddy or PGTT or whatever his name is now and uh us sure and all those guys and and uh a little YACHTI And it's extraordinary the talent that comes on our show. Really amazing challenge. Yeah, that's fun. And meanwhile, UM, as a business person, I'm curious, as a hugely successful woman in business, what do you think are the most important lessons you've learned along the way, Because I don't know, I'm at the point in my career that I want to mentor more young women, and so what would you tell them, well, it's UM. It's all about having ideas, having energy to grow those ideas into something UM, and having the wherewithal, whether it be personal or borrowed or education, to build something of lasting value. And I think just my library of books is of lasting value. Many of the other things that I've done also, I think will have a lasting value. Building a brand is interesting, but it's unless it's a really good brand and has a wide audience. Uh. What the heck, I'm not a Bill Gates. I didn't I didn't invent software. I wish I had. But in the meantime, I utilize what's available and and learning how to use what's new and different has made a big difference in my business. And I think learning you know, when I started my business, the internet was a baby uh and but I had a computer. I learned how to use that computer. I learned how to to to write and and uh and use the internet to do research to do all of the things. Now, social media is another challenge for all of us. How do we how do we maneuver and uh and uh and negotiate social media to make a difference without wasting a tremendous amount of time doing so, so a lot of plays open to open to new ideas and to and to I was I'm one of the early adopters of the computer. Believe it or not. I mean, isn't that crazy? But I am. And two, I got my first computer. When did you get your computer? Were you born yet? I was when I was just born. When did I got my first computer? I think it was in the late eighties at some point. I got my adrink in the early nineties. Well when I oh, no, yeah, I think in the early or even late eighties, when broadcasting wasn't using computers in We were the first magazine to design on an Apple and that's why I wanted you. I wanted to make sure that we were doing it in the new and different way. It was no cutting and pasting on the big tables, so it's a it's that So making use of what's available currently available was very important to me. My dad used to say that you really had to stay on top of this ever changing world. And I think now more than ever it's a good thing. As you would say, Martha, By the way, do you remember when I gave you the Matrix Award? So I you know, I worked so hard on this poem, and I have to just repeat the first couple of verses and in communications, and Martha was, of course so deserving. I remembered. I was terrified because the dais was full of very impressive women that year. Of course you and then Whoopi Goldberg, and I think Amy tan and and Richards and all these people. But I was what went before me, and I was like, oh, I'm I'm screwed because she's so funny and relaxed, and I was a nervous wreck. But I had worked really hard on a poem for Martha, and it went like this, Martha, Dear Martha, what should I do? These people have asked me to introduce you. I haven't eaten, I haven't slept. Talk about making a girl fill in at anything I can do, you can do better dipping a candle, knitting a sweater. A room needs repainting, you'll make it, saying with Robin's a blue because it's a good thing. And only a woman who's in your position makes a gingerbread house. This air condition tartar ta marsi, pacco vent to, bruschetta panchetta is not all you can do your holiday meals are a feast for the eyes. Why can't you use stovetop? And Mrs smiss pies anyway, went on and on anyway, why heart, Well, you know what I think what. I worked so hard on this and it was so much fun to do and I was so honored to be asked to present it to you. Um. So that's one of my my favorite poems because my dad said I write. My dad used to say I write dogg rol, not poetry. Um. By the way, before we go, we have a listener voicemail question. We have a listener who called in with a question for Martha. Okay, I am calling from St. Pete, Florida, where I'm reading Martha Stewart Living by the Light of a lantern because I'm still without power. But I've always been curious about whether or not Martha Stewart has ever done something she shouldn't have done, like stood up on a chair instead of a ladder, or didn't we have the safety glasses she was supposed to do. She's trying to have all how to do things right, but I'm just wondering about where she's made some goose that taught her a lesson. Well, Oh, my gosh, that's a good one. That's your biggest screw up. My biggest grew up was riding under the branch of a tree on my giant horse and getting knocked off because I thought I could bend backwards under it. That was a stupid thing because then I broke my arm. But were there any other things where? Well? Now, when she says standing on a chair and seat of the ladder, um, I would never do that because I have taught everyone. I mean, you know, as as an employer of people, you have to teach good lessons. So I'm very strict about having a ladder available in most places, so that if you have to reach a high shelf, you step on a ladder. Um in the garden there, they must wear their ear muffs when they're using loud machinery. Uh, they have to have safety lessons for chain sauce because I know how I know how to use chain sauce. I mean, I really do practice good healthy living well or either that or your control free. No, no, no, I practice safety for our safety. Well no I'm not. I mean, I'm not a nut nudge about it, but I'm serious about it. But you're so um, you're so good at everything. It's and I gave a big gift to the emergency room both in Westport and in Mount Kisco, just in case, Just in case. They're They're always taken care of. But what is the biggest Have you ever screwed something up terribly? Please tell me you have? Like, what is the biggest thing? You messed my marriage by being a caterer? Really? Probably? Do you know? I think about you? I'm thinking that I was attractive enough or something like that. I I see you at some social events, are passed across on a number of occasions, and you never remarried. I have not, um are you? Are you sorry if I could have married the next guy or the next guy, but I didn't. I'm not I'm not unhappy about that. I don't. And now when I see some of my friends with her husbands, I'm so happy that are they? Are they unhappy? And that makes you happy that you're not unhappy? Or do you just feel like who needs it? No? None of the above. When Mr Wright comes along, I'll marry And are you still open to datings? How do we have some librant woman? You are and you're beautiful? How does somebody do you go to match. Do you go on match dot com? Or I think you went on for today's show. Can you imagine the algorithm just doesn't fit me. It doesn't know. Maybe you could go on Farmers dot com. Maybe that might be a match made in heaven, Martha. They could help you with your garden, my farm. I don't, I don't want I want I want them. I don't want them to help me with my farm. I want not going to be hoping on Farmers dot com. It's sorry O'Brien to talk about your new cook books before we go, because it's your eighty nine. Is that Martha Cooker? We laugh because in the intro you said you'd never really used a slow cooker before, but you knew that they were really popular and they are now. Isn't this what people used to call a crock pot? Yeah, this is the evolution of a croc pot and um, and it is so the food is so delicious. And this book we we set out with no holds barred and no preconceptions because it's not just dump a bunch of meat and vegetables in a pot and add some water and turn it on like creem of mushroom soup. No, no, it isn't any of that. So you can make savory, you can make sweet, you can make cinnamon buns. You can make apple crisp. And made apple crisp from start. Some of that. Our producer Gianna is standing next to the everything. I don't think, Brian, I don't know. No, I'm not coming. It's okay. You can share it with me. Yeah, anyway, so you had did you have fun making this? This cookbook as usual? So much fun. I mean, I'm excited because I have to walk a few miles a day back and forth from the kitchens here. This is a block long and long block eleventh twelfth Avenue. But to eat all this food here, give that to Katie. It's apple cris and this is I just picked so many apples for something to do with my Brian. You take a taste, okay, okay, that is so good. And it's the apples. See fresh apples. The apples are delicious. Here, I'm gonna get that to Martore. You have, Brian, and I can care you guys have some. There's a whole croc butter, cramberries in it, dried crabbers, and now, um, that's amazing. Isn't that good? So did that dryed? I take it back, it's fresh crambers. This is the best interview we've ever done. I know, I know this. And Nose made us, uh these really delicious crampled eggs that were so slowly with truffle butter and a brioche toe. Yeah. When I brought my house in Easthampton, I know what had still had the barefoot contests to shop in town and we became friends and I started her TV show. Did you know that I knew? Imagine? She said that you were. She forgot that I started her television. Actually, I think she did mention that. Martha. She said that you wrote the introduction to her first cookbook and you were enormously helpful to her. So we have a lightning round. Okay, yeah, but I was going to ask Martha about what iinus said, how she couldn't understand if somebody who didn't cook why they would watch her show. But Brian and I were saying, we love to watch cooking shows because even if we're not cooking, whatever is being made you learn and they're so relaxing. There's something that they're kind of hypnotic and eat. Yeah, you get hungry. These apples are They are delicious? This whole thing is super yummy. All right, well I eat Brian. Why don't you start the lightning wrap. You're making a simple dinner at home just for you. What are you cooking? Well? Because I have so many eggs, um, I will oftentimes make something out of the eggs. But I will also just bake a fresh potato that's just freshly dug. I love baked potatoes and um um, just just butter and sour cream or crime fresh so good um and lots of chopped herbs. Um. I will um cook a whole head of cauliflour or broccoli because I love that too. I'm healthy. Yeah. And what do you put on the cauliflower or broncoli? Oh? Just cooking and salted water, heavily salted water, and maybe a dab of butter. Are there any recipes you hate making? Anything? You hate cooking? I won't do it. Why? Why ball many food? You hate brains? I won't eat brains. I don't that's wait. Weight breads are intestines. They're they're finest glance or something. I don't know. They're nasty. That's all I have to say that in shad Row, which my dad used to I know, but the eggs are so big and it's in this and millions of little eggs inside the sacks. You're eating the sack of eggs. Okay, what's your biggest strength and your biggest weakness? Um? I think my biggest strength is my curiosity, and probably my biggest weakness is also my career, because you want to do too many things? Yeah? Probably. Um do you think marijuana should be legal? Um? Yeah, I think so. I think so, but I worry about but it should be controlled by parents because I just think that, you know, there's too much in gender. I'm understanding that that school children are partaking too much and it's her their studies. I don't. I don't like anything that interferes with growing up in a healthy, vibrant environment. I agree, I feel like you don't. Why do you? I mean, I understand would train drugs, but you know, because what does the child need that for? I don't understand having sort of this artificial Why worry about all the prescription drugs that kids are getting in school as well? Like little in adderall and all of that. Anyway, we have a listener question that's very quick. It's the longest podcast I ever did. Messages the Martha Stewarts. What is the best way to cook pork chops? I want to know, thank you? The best way to put cook pork chops? Um? Well, I think pork chops should be. Um. You could bread them if you want, but I just I just dredge them in in a salty peppery flower and then I just cook them lightly in um, a little olive oil and a little bit of butter until they are pretty much done. And then I squeeze fresh oranges over them and let the juices sort of caramelize. They're the best. It's hard to make a juicy pork chop. Yeah, but that's that's the best way to something my mom was never able to do. I'll tell you that. Don't broil them, yeah, because they get dried out. What's your favorite thing to do with your grandkids? Oh? Explore? I mean these kids are such explorers. Sore how old now Martha five and six. But they are great travelers. And we went to the Galapagos already, we bunch of Botswana. We go to Maine. They're climbing rock walls now. Um. They the boys, a girl and a boy. Girl and a boy, and they're they're very, very fun to be with. And how's your daughter? Alexis is great, she's a very good mother. And these children are the result of close attention. Now we talked about reinventing. So as we bring this to a close, what what would you like to do mark that that you haven't done yet? Like would you like to be in Martha the musical? I mean, actually can to do that? Actually? No, actually that would be really music. Um, I'm gonna be h Yeah, I have I have some business kind of things to give us a little hint. Well, I've I've been working on an organizer for for the homemaker and I'm going to build that. Always fun to see what Martha does next. Mary, thank you that was really young. If you're going to produce for sure, Well that was very delicious. And your new cookbook is called slow Cooker and I'm excited to have one. And I guess I'm gonna have to buy a slow cooker now. Thank you, Martha, thank you Katie. Thank you brilliant, and I'm glad you came to my office. Thank you for having us, and thank you for making Apple cider and apple Chris the cappuccino. Thanks as always to our production team, the intrepid, brilliant Gianna Palmer, our producer that was Virgianna's dad who fast forwards to the credits totally. I hope that still counts as a listen. Nora Richie are wonderful production assistant, and especially Jared O'Connell, our audio engineer, who helped us take our show on the road for this episode. Thanks also to Alison Bresnik for all she does to shine a light on our podcast via her social media mastery, and to Emily Beena from Katie Currik Media for her production prowess as well. Thanks Mark Phillips for our theme music. Wow, we are laid it on thick today. Ladies, gentlemen, we heard from a lot of you who left voicemails and wrote in with your questions for Martha Stewart for this episode. It was great. We loved it, so remember you can email us your questions for Marie Condo too. You may have heard of her best selling book, The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up, and if you're a slob like me, you're going to have a lot of questions or if you just want to say hi, or that you're enjoying our podcast, be starting a little pathetic you you want to know, you know, like what Brian's hobbies are when he's not reading eight thousand newspapers and newsletters. You can do so at comments at currect podcast dot com or leave us a voicemail at nine to four or six three seven. The lines are open seven. And yes, I do think we sound a little pathetic, like we don't have any don't we don't have any friends. If you want to further cyber stock us, I'm Katie Curic on Twitter, um and actually read my comments and UM, if you're a jerk, I block you, so please don't be a jerk. Also, I'm on Instagram and Katie dot curric on Snapchat. Find me on Facebook as well, and Brian is at goldsmith b on Twitter. And last but not least, if you like the show, please please subscribe. I figured we're pathetic already, so might as well just lean into it. Subscribe, rate and review the show over at Apple podcast and helps us out. Someone stop us. Talk to you next time, and we promised to be less beggy and whiny and pathetic. Have a good day, yeah,