Bryan Cranston: a nice guy on what it means to be bad

Published Jan 12, 2023, 8:00 AM

Bryan Cranston joins Katie Couric to talk about the surprise second season of his Showtime drama, “Your Honor,” premiering Sunday, Jan. 15, 2023. If you haven’t seen the first season, the story, about the lengths parents go to for their kids, seemed pretty well wrapped up. Bryan talks about why he wanted to return to this tormented character and the ways in which he still draws from Walter White. Bryan also shares advice for people just starting out in the often crazy movie business, and confides in Katie about his own plans for when he’ll call it quits. 

Listeners: This is the last episode of the regular Fall 2022 season of Next Question with Katie Couric. The podcast will take a brief hiatus and return March 23. But don’t stray too far! Katie will be sharing some live events and special bonus episodes right here in the Next Question feed. For more, go to KatieCouric.com and sign up for Katie’s daily morning newsletter, Wake Up Call.

I'm Katie Curry and I'm Brian Cranston. And this is next question. I think I have a future. Yeah, let's try it again, um, this time a little per year. That's right. My guest today is Brian Cranston. Those of you who haven't been living under a rock, note that Brian is a force, a performer, is comfortable on screens large and small, as he is on a Broadway stage. But more than anything, honestly, he's just an all around good human being, and as I found out during our conversation, also an avid reader of Wake Up Call. I get your newsletter every morning you open it, more importantly I do, I read it all the time. So friends, be like Brian Cranston, informed and entertained with wake Up Call. That's our daily news letter, delivered Monday through Saturday in your inbox, bright and early. In it, we break down the top news stories of the day. We answer all of your pressing questions, and we scour the internet for the best entertainment tidbits, streaming recommendations, recipes, and health and wellness tips. It's like a one stop shop for smart, dissy people like you and Brian Cranston. Okay, done, with the shameless plug, Let's get back to business. Bryan Cranston, and welcome back to the podcast. How are you're looking very scruffy these days? You've got a big beard going. What's that about? You know, it's it's about. I'm doing a second season of Your Honor for Showtime, right, which did incredibly well. By the way, I loved Your Honor, but I read recently it was like one of the biggest shows on Showtime in a long time. Yeah, they tell us it was the highest rated UM series they ever had, so that's pretty good. And so they wanted to do another one, and and I said, I'd like to do another season, but only if we follow in an honest, authentic way where that character would go. Because it seems to me, with all due respect Mr Cranston, that this series did not exactly lend itself to a second series. I mean, things tied up pretty neatly, very traumatically. I might add I don't want any spoilers here, but I had a hard time when I heard there was going to be a second season. I thought, how are you going to do that? I thought the same thing because it ended tragically, which is not which is a not a the wrong way to end that first season. Um, And then I thought, well, if the first season was about a man losing his sense of principles and dignity and integrity, can the second season be about redemption? Is? And I think our society is yearning for that to actually stand. Where does forgiveness exist in our in our society now? It seems so coarse, it seems so vitriolic. You know that that, you know, we we've had people who have been leading this country who believe that forgiveness and and apology are signs of weaknesses in the human character. And I don't believe that. I believe it's actually a strength. And in fact, you've been pretty vocal if I recall about sort of cancel culture, haven't you? Well? I did you? Did you get a little hot water that baron? Well, you know what happened. I was doing I was doing a play in London and I had a film coming out. So the BBC wanted to do an interview with me, and I said okay, And they said they're gonna want you to talk about uh, President Trump, And I said okay, And they're gonna want to talk about the Me Too movement. I said, okay, Um, all of which you know, it's it's a wake up call in many regards for both of those issues. The question came to me, do you think that M. Kevin Spacey can resurrect his career? And I was taken aback a little bit about that, about that directness, and then I realized the association the BBC is asking that because Kevin Spacey was the artistic director of the old VIC Theater, right And uh, I said, I don't think so. But if he does a lot of personal work on himself, if he really goes into therapy and really gets to the root of what was causing this behavior of his and not in a two month dude ranch kind of thing in Colorado, but a real earnest attempt to figure things out, and if he if he showed genuine contrition, maybe in five to ten years, UM, society would accept him back if he did all that work that did I did. Um. We were in a redlining situation at the time where they thought I was trying to defend him, but really I was trying to look at a bigger picture of our society. Where does it all fit? And so when this idea to possibly do a second season of Your Honor came along. I thought, I think this might help people people who live in despair and in pain. Um, how do they cope? How can they find a pathway to the rest of their lives? And I think it's a service. You personally went through it yourself. You had to figure out a path to get through so that you can be strong again. And I'm I'm marvel at your ability to be able to do that. You mean, from from the death of my husband. Yeah, you know. I think also this sort of public shaming, which I didn't experience, but but certainly many high profile figures have. Uh. Sometimes it's definitely warranted. But I think you're right at what point is can there be or should there be redemption? And I don't know the answer to that, but I think that's such a a topic that's so right for exploration and and getting back to Your Honor can for people who haven't seen the first series, and I urged them to do so so they can see the second series when it comes out. Can you just basically give us the nutshell of this character because I found him so fascinating. Michael days Otto is a Superior Court judge in New Orleans, Louisiana. He has a seventeen year old son, and his wife was a photojournalist who was murdered a year earlier. Through a course of of the remembrance of the day that she passed, my son, who was distraught and it is an asthmatic, gets into a a car accident and he hits a young boy on a motorcycle. He panics and leaves the scene of the accident almost immediately, feeling guilty and realizing he's made a mistake, and he confesses to me, his father, what happened. And after receiving that devastating news and dealing with that by itself, I convey to him that we need to do the right thing. We need to turn you in and be responsible, because if you don't do that now, you will forever be damaged by that decision. So I go to turn him into the police um and I'm going to hire a lawyer for him and and see how things end up. And what happens is that at the police station, I noticed the parents of the boy who died in that car accident, and they are part of the most violent and dangerous UH mob in all of Louisiana, and I know, or at least I feel I know that that man, if he found out my son killed his son, he would go and kill my son within the structure of the um of course system. So I make an immediate decision not to turn my son in. From that point on, everything unraveled deeper and deeper. It's not the crime, it's the cover up. And I found the character so fascinating because of all these sort of ethical lapses and how one leads to another, to another to another. And I don't know, I'm obsessed with characters who are guilt ridden. I don't know if you remember that movie Bob Roberts. I think it was called and it was with was that Tim Robbins, And I think he commits a crime. And the idea of doing something and being like having to hide that and feel this overwhelming, overflowing guilt. I have nightmares about that. I don't know why those characters. I think that's my biggest fear, like not doing something wrong but having to hide it because you feel like you'll be exposed. Yes, of course, but but when you think about it, that's one of the wonderful things about human beings is that we do carry guilt and we we do have that because we are we are an made to that, we're social animals. We want to strive to do what is best. I really believe that. And um, when when we explore in this season of Your Honor, the idea that my character is is going through despair and grief, Um, I think it's a valuable thing to it and the movement that he makes. I had to really convince the people at show time. It's like, trust me, I think this will work. But you wanted to do it. Yeah, you wanted to do it. Well, I wanted to do that if if they weren't saying to you, this show did so well, we need a second season. They did, And I said, I will do a second season if I can do this with that character. Got it, But otherwise I don't have to do another one. Now. How is Michael different from Walter White? And are their similarities in their characters because they are they are sort of at their core good people who because of circumstances, become bad people. Yeah. Well, I think I think what what Walter White taught me is that nothing is black and white in the pun But um, there's a lot of gray area. I don't think human beings are just one thing we have. We have good qualities and we have bad qualities. We have things about us that we're proud of and things that were I need to improve in this area. Hopefully they're not criminal. But but that's human beings. Um. The difference, and well, the common denominator is that Michael Desiatto and Walter White were played by the same person, So there's always going to be a through line of that, does Michael we're tidy Whitey's he does not. He does not he's a boxer. Yeah. Um. But the difference is is that the attempts. We we want to see characters attempting to do the right thing at the best of their ability. But if they're damaged and troubled people men in this case, uh, then they may not be capable of doing the right thing at the right time. Always, and it's always about sort of how one bad decision can change everything in an instant. You've said you're attracted to damage characters who still have some manner of humanity and decency within them despite their flaws and shortcomings. So I guess that does describe Michael and Walter I think that's the and those are the kinds of characters I get offered is to play really damnage, you're such a nice guy. How is that? Well? I can I can relate. I mean, I'm here are such why you are human? But I mean I don't know you that well, but I would say you're incredibly decent and um and and morally upstanding individual. You know, I feel like you have certain values that you adhere to and you know you've got I don't know, and you've here before have played pretty wholesome characters prior to breaking bad. So you know, how how come we're just now seeing this the darker side of Brian Cranston. Well, when you when you think of it from a standpoint of dramatic narrative, the most interesting things to play are damaged people. We don't want to see in our dramas. We don't want to see people do all the right things all the time. They would never make it into a show or a movie, right because it's not interesting. So there's going to be a turn. There's going to be uh problems in that person's life that they are either capable or incapable of overcoming. And that's that's what makes drama so fascinating. You're the happy beneficiary of this national obsession I think with crime and sort of thrillers and who done it? And I'm curious what you think about that whole trend, because everything seems to either be based on true crime or a fiction fictionalized version of some kind of terrible event. Well, I know, I am more interested in the human element of it and whether that takes me in the genre of crime or a medical or whatever the main areas of interest are. I'm always interested in the story. Does the story where he resonate with me and and so you look at you look at Breaking Bad. And Breaking Bad was a story of a man's plight and struggle through this horrific prognosis of of a limited life, and he wanted to set his family up for after he's gone, and and so he elicited a lot of sympathies of that. Yeah, it's just his decision making UM and and also an indictment of the health system that a fully employed teacher needs to have a second job in order to pay for the special needs son and his care. UM. So and then you have UM your Honor, which had the concept of what would you do to save the life of your child? And if you ask any parent, it's like, I would do anything to save the life of my child. I would do anything. And I asked people, would you become would you willingly become a criminal if you knew that by doing so you would save the life of your child? Yes? I would. Okay, then we take it a step further. Would you allow an innocent person to be hurt or killed in the line of saving yours? You know? And then all of a sudden, oh, you can't go back. My character can't retrace his steps and clean it up and make good on something. His spiral already started and he is in this mess. And that's what to to echo your point is that we have to try to make the best decisions at that time that you can. My character didn't have the luxury of thinking, what are the repercussions of this initial decision. I remember that scene where he's watching the family. I think he was in the parking lot. Uh, Michael was, and he thought he made that split second decision. Nope, this isn't going to happen. We're not going to do the right thing. And the rest of the series obviously unfolds, and he gets deeper and deeper and deeper, and to you know, lie begets lie begets lie. Um. I love the series, and I think it was critically acclaimed. I think it got a lot of nice reviews. But you don't read reviews ever, ever, ever, ever. I did, um up until about seven eight years ago, when I read a couple reviews about a movie that I did that I thought was, Oh, well, that doesn't that's not helpful to me. Um, what movie was it? Well, I don't want to I don't want to throw this reviewer under the bus. Oh, go ahead, we like to do that here on next question. We like to throw people under the bus. Come on, Brian. Especially, it sounds like this person me deserve it. Yeah, because this person was lazy and claimed certain things that an easy little research into it and this person would have found, oh I'm wrong about that and about this. And so I found the laziness of that to be irritating. And I also realized and and so I said, I don't think reading reviews helps me at all, And so I don't. I don't read reviews on when I do a Broadway show or when I do a movie because it it's not going to change anything. Um and I actually most people are saying, you could have nine great reviews and one bad one, and the one you're going to think about is the bad one. Isn't a true No matter how many things you've done and how many times you've been reviewed or critiqued, it still hurts. I think when people say mean things about you. You know, are you on Twitter? By the way, Well, are you leaving Twitter? I'm not. I'm not active. You're not active? But you would you do you want to stay on it? I haven't really given it much thought. I certainly my whole point I I long for the chance once again to have a respectful, logical disagreement with someone who has who's more conservative than I am. I'm more liberal, but I and I want to have that debate again and not lose respect for each other, knowing that we're both trying to get to an accomplishment that benefits the country. That's that's the goal. Uh, we've kind of lost that. I think we've been conditioned not to want it, given the kind of discourse or lack thereof that is everywhere. It's almost assigned. Well, just as compromise on Capitol Hill is a sign of weakness. Compromise or even uh, calm discussion seems to be a sign of weakness, openness, kind of willingness to listen. It has all been kind of I think, I don't know, people just don't want to do it. I agree with you, And I think what I was saying earlier, same thing, um, asking forgiveness, apologizing signs of weakness. I think that goes along with that that our country has been a come courser and and harder. And I think if if we can contribute anything to this is to be able to try to break down that kind of calloused attitude and dogma and be able to step back in and saying let's have a respectful debate on what is best for our society, our country, our state, at our city, or whatever the case. I want to see if I can help bring the country together with less divisiveness and more spirit of unity, that would be great. Um. When when I see people who have integrity and I want to meet them, I want to talk to them. It doesn't matter what side of the aisle they happen to be on. I know you don't read reviews, Brian, but I did want to read this letter from Anthony Hopkins because it was so lovely and I just made me like Anthony Hopkins even more than I already do. He wrote that your performance as Walter his performance. I guess this was to you, right. Your performance as Walter White was the best acting I have seen ever. I have never watched anything like it. Brilliant. I know there's so much smoke blowing and sickening bullshit in this business, and I've sort of lost belief in anything, really, but this work of yours spectacular, absolutely stunning. From what started as a black comedy descended into a labyrinth of blood destruction and hell, it was like a great Jacobean, Shakespearean or Greek tragedy. When you've read that, you I mean, obviously you read that he wrote, he delivered it, or he had it sent to your house. Yeah, it was it was dull. I was actually um in Boston at the time doing the out of town version of All the Way and the play you did about LBJ, right, and we had just closed that show there and I got this letter that was forwarded from We have the same agent, and so it was forwarded from the agents, and I read it and oh my god. But I I am not the one to want to make these things public, and I didn't intend to make this public. But he gave praise to not just me, but the whole cast, and I felt I wanted to share that with the cast, and I should have said, please, don't put this out on social media. I did not think in those terms, and I sent it to my cast and say, I think you all should read this, isn't it lovely? Lovely and mind blowing? And then someone within our cast put it out on social media and it went everywhere, and that wasn't the intention. I actually cringe a little bit because I would have rather have been just a private, private moment. Well, having said that, what a nice gesture and what beautiful words, and coming from one of the best actors to ever live. And is there so much smoke blowing and sickening bullshit in your business? Please that you're saying that rhetorically? Yeah, how do you? How do you deal with sort of the bullshit of show biz? Same way you do? You creates and you're not in show business, of course you are. You're in show business. I mean, I mean is to entertain, and you do you entertain? You inform. We're all in the business of entertainment when you think about it, whether you're creating a service or a product, we're in entertainment, and I think the way to manage it. And what I tell young young actors or writers or directors people want to be in the business, get your personal life in order. Get that straight. Make sure that you're in you love the work and not the idea of some uh effect of some result. Yes you're not. Don't look ahead it like I'm I'm out to get fame and fortune, because that's that's the fool's erind isn't it. It is, because I wouldn't know how to approach that. Just focus on what you do and what you love to do, and if you're meant to get anything from that, it will happen. So I'm you know, just you kind of you. I think you've again I'm acting like I've known you since you were five. But it seems to me that you are very grounded and you really have never lost perspective per se. Also, you know, you were a successful actor, but you're huge sort of success came later in life. Yeah, I think that's it was a benefit because you know, I've I've been married for thirty four years and lovely Robin, and we have a we have a very good life, and but it's very very normal. And I remember when I was on Malcolm in the Middle and I was nominated for an Emmy and we go to the Emmys and I'm in my tuxedo and everybody Brian brianber and taking pictures, pictures, pictures with Robin and I and and we're getting the limo and we're the red carpet and it's all fancy Hollywood, Mollywood and uh. And we go home and I pay the babysitter and say goodnight, and Robin walks into the kitchen and turns her nose and goes, oh my god, what's And she discovers there's something stinky in the garbage and she just picks up the plastic garbage bag and shoves it in my hands. And I don't say a word because that's my job. And I opened the back door and I'm and no, it's starting to drip. Something is really bad in here. And I'm holding the dripping garbage, smelly garbage bag out at arm's length so it doesn't drip on my tuxedo and I'm walking out to the garbage and I realized, not twenty minutes ago, people were please picture, let me take a picture. Will you have an autographer? And now I'm taking smelly garbage out of the and I smiled, because that's it. That's the reality of it, that's real life, that's tangible. It's right there, smelly garbage and all. And that's what I want to embrace. I want to embrace the reality of life. And if you can create a foundation of that, then you have room to dream and go and take chances. But you because you always have your kind of like an invisible tether to something that's real. And that's why you should get sort of your personal life in order, because that is really what matters, that's what counts. And and you know, I think, I think for so many young people who experience fame at a very early age, we see how destructive and toxic it is. And now, I don't know, we live in a culture where everybody can be famous on social media for one thing or another, and I worry about the impact it has on young people and sort of getting you know, and I experienced this myself. You know, I think you get endorphins from external validation and affirmation and the idea that that they their sense of self is predicated upon their the number of likes or the followers. It's it's a very unhealthy I think recipe for living life as a healthy kind of grounded person. It's an extremely unhealthy way of life. I think from our perspective, people of a certain age, looking back, we didn't have that when we were young. What do we do? How do we help this generation and the younger generations to come to to realize what is really important to them? I think you know this, No, you know. It used to be where if you weren't invited to a party and Monday morning you heard there was a party. Oh, that's kind of a bummer. I didn't I wasn't invited, which happens to me. Um. But now it's instantaneous that party is happening right now because you're seeing that you are not there. That that is devastating to young formidable mind. Yeah, listen, I'm glad even though they're still only twenty six and thirty one. I feel really bad for parents who are having to to deal with it, and I think they just need to take take it away, you know, take it away and have hours where they can be on their phones. But we digress, Brian, we digress. Let's talk about um that your your mescal company, and I want to know what else kind of you're excited about these days? Are you going to do well? Before we talk about mescal? And I have to be I have a confession to make. I know what your confession is. I don't. I know. I know that the last time we had dinner, we're having mescal, and you went, I don't know. Can I have something else? I don't have, dare you? I don't. It's too smoky for me. I just I don't have a palette for it. Yeah, you know, when you grow up, you know you'll you'll have an opportune A lot of the good news is a lot of people do listen. How's the company going? It's gangbusters? Really. Aaron, Paul and I started this three and a half years ago, and we were then like, I think there's a hundred and twenty five or six different mescal brands in the world, and we were right there with them. Three and a half years later, we're now number four, and yeah, we have our eyes set on being number one. It's a nice lofty goal for it. We should say the name of the brand for you know, shameless plug. And what I like about your origin story, as they say, is that you didn't kind of just slap your name on a bottle. You actually did the work. You all went to Mexico, you went on, you know, a journey to find the best mescal. I say, I think I said it wrong, Miscal mescal, Mescal mescal, and you really you did the work. You know, That's the only way that I wanted to do it. Aaron and I have the same work ethic. We come from blue collar families and we don't really know any other way, but just keep your head down and do the do the work, put in the hours. And whether it's mescal or your own acting career, if you don't put in the hours and put in the work, you're not going to be successful. That's a guarantee. UM. So we went down to Wahaca, Mexico, and we sampled almost a hundred different mescals that we didn't have brands connected to them, and we had very different palettes. I have, I tease him, I have a sophisticated palette and he has kind of a a brown paper bag in the parking lot palette, according to you, according to me exactly, he know, but he he loves a strong scotch. He loves a burning sensation. I'm not that way. You're a smooth I want to smooth. I want to be introduced and seduced into my spirits. So you're having a lot of fun with that, right, I mean? Where the dos umbres? And what about theater um? You know I loved all the way. I also saw you a network. We went to see you at a play in a play in Los Angeles that I thought was wonderful written by I think someone who works with my daughter on a show called The Boys. Right, yeah, and obviously you love the theater um? And and do you have any plans to revisit something? Or why you look at me like that? Because it's one other thing that I can't really talk about developing something, and I know you're gonna want me to, I can't you give me a little bit of a hint. Yeah, it's it's going to be a Broadway play. Oh well, that's good. That's exciting. It's it's very exciting. I have a couple more hurdles to go to before actually gets into an actual reality of casting and these things. But um, and it's something that is a little a bit beyond. It's it's going to be a musical. And I'm not I'm an actor that can carry a tune, but I'm not a singer. But it's original. It's it's not a remake. No, it is a it is a revival, a revival. Yes, well, I'll tell you this as soon as I know, and I've I've gotten the green light when to do it. I'll come and I'll mention it to you first. Okay, I'll get a scoop here on next question? How old are you Brian Cranspin, I'm I'm No, you're not, You're you're my Are we the same, mate? I'm sixty six okay, and I'm almost sixty six. And it's so great to see you like doing your thing, taking on new challenges and you know, and and not going quietly into this good night. You know, it's nice to do you ever want to retire? Do you ever want to take it easy? Personally? I don't because I think I would shrivel up and die if I didn't work. I would, Um, my mother, God, bless her. She she had Alzheimer's, and she she died of Alzheimer's fifteen years ago now, and so the possibility of of that in a hereditary sense is there. And I often said, as long as I'm enjoying and having fun, I will continue to work. If I don't want to struggle to remember lines, I don't want to be nervous and anxious about any of that. If it comes to that, then I would retire immediately. Um, I am not going to be the person on stage with an earpiece being fed his lines and then I just hear it and repeat it. Here, it repeat it. It sounds pretty good to me. No, God that that that itself puts more anxiety inducing thoughts in my head than memorizing. You know. That's that's part of it. But if if I ever lose the joy of performing, then I'll retire right away. But so far, no, I love it. What a gift I get. I have to constantly say, I can't believe what I get to do. This is just unbelievable that I get to play. I get to play for a living. And so when Monday comes around, I'm excited because I get to go back to work and play. Uh, it's just that it's just the best but a great way to live. Yeah, it is. I've been very fortunate. Thank you, Brian, Thank you Katie. You can watch Brian Cranston and the second season of Your Honors starting Sunday, June on Showtime. And to all of my Next Question listeners, this is actually the last episode of our regular season. We're going to take a bit of a brief hiatus and cook up something new, new topics, new guests, and before too long, a whole new season of Next Question, and you know what, we might even change the name. So if you have suggestions, let us know, but don't stray too far. I have a few live events and bonus interviews that I'll be sharing with you on this very feed Until then, Thanks so much for listening everyone, you'll hear us soon. Next Question with Katie Curic is a production of I Heart Media and Katie Kurk Media. The executive producers Army, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen, Associate producer Derek Clements and Adriana Fasio. The show is edited and mixed by Derrek Clements. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go to Katie currect dot com. You can also find me at Katie Currek on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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