Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question. Brookshields is an American icon. I don't know about you, but I remember her face being on the box of Ivory Snow because she was such a pretty baby. She later starred, of course, in Pretty Baby, and then froliced in the Blue Lagoon. When I was in my twenties, I learned that nothing came between her and her Calvin's. I have been a fan of hers for a very long time. I think she's so smart and funny and miraculously survived enormous fame from a very early age. In fact, there's a whole documentary about her life called Pretty Baby Now on Hulu. When Brook invited me to be on her podcast, now What, I thought, why not? Although I'm a bit older than she is, we're both interested in making sure we're living and loving life as more and more candles appear on our birthday cakes. We ended up having a great conversation, so I thought this might be a really nice way to kick off twenty twenty four. So I hope you all enjoy.

Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question. Brookshields is an American icon. I don't know about you, but I remember her face being on the box of Ivory Snow because she was such a pretty baby. She later starred, of course, in Pretty Baby, and then froliced in the Blue Lagoon. When I was in my twenties, I learned that nothing came between her and her Calvin's. I have been a fan of hers for a very long time. I think she's so smart and funny and miraculously survived enormous fame from a very early age. In fact, there's a whole documentary about her life called Pretty Baby Now on Hulu. When Brook invited me to be on her podcast, now What, I thought, why not? Although I'm a bit older than she is, we're both interested in making sure we're living and loving life as more and more candles appear on our birthday cakes. We ended up having a great conversation, so I thought this might be a really nice way to kick off twenty twenty four. So I hope you all enjoy.

Well.

Well.

Thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you so much for doing this.

Oh my god, of course, I'm thrilled to talk to you because you know, I'm such a big fan, and I think I'm glad that people are kind of, you know, getting to know you and your personality because you're so funny. And I don't think people I think, like when obviously suddenly Susan and you've had other roles, but I don't think everyone appreciates your sense of humor or the fact that you have such a good sense of humor.

Oh my god, of course, I'm thrilled to talk to you because you know, I'm such a big fan, and I think I'm glad that people are kind of, you know, getting to know you and your personality because you're so funny. And I don't think people I think, like when obviously suddenly Susan and you've had other roles, but I don't think everyone appreciates your sense of humor or the fact that you have such a good sense of humor.

Well, thank you for that. I think, you know, I think it's anyway, it's odd. I think it's because if you've been sort of positioned a certain way for a good portion of your life, that is just what people imprint on and you know you can't I guess you can't be labeled pretty and funny, although I mean Lucio Ball was like a beauty queen when she started.

Well, thank you for that. I think, you know, I think it's anyway, it's odd. I think it's because if you've been sort of positioned a certain way for a good portion of your life, that is just what people imprint on and you know you can't I guess you can't be labeled pretty and funny, although I mean Lucio Ball was like a beauty queen when she started.

I don't know why people have to put people in boxes and don't appreciate that, As Walt Whitman said, we contain multitudes, right, right.

I don't know why people have to put people in boxes and don't appreciate that, As Walt Whitman said, we contain multitudes, right, right.

I mean, I think it's easier for people because also if you really, if you really take in all that we're all capable of.

I mean, I think it's easier for people because also if you really, if you really take in all that we're all capable of.

It's a lot of pressure for people.

It's a lot of pressure for people.

And yeah, I'm really kind of I have to say I was a bit intimidating, not a bit a lot intimidated when I really heard, only because not as a friend, because as a friend and like a girlfriend, I know I can call you and we can be girls, and we've talked about a multitude of private things together. But it just, you know, you set the tone, and you're the front runner for so many women. And the fact that I got intimidated by the fact that I thought you were going to be that I knew you were going to be on the show, it struck me. I thought, I wonder if she ever gets intimidated by interviews that she has to give. Has there been anybody that's been intimidating to you?

And yeah, I'm really kind of I have to say I was a bit intimidating, not a bit a lot intimidated when I really heard, only because not as a friend, because as a friend and like a girlfriend, I know I can call you and we can be girls, and we've talked about a multitude of private things together. But it just, you know, you set the tone, and you're the front runner for so many women. And the fact that I got intimidated by the fact that I thought you were going to be that I knew you were going to be on the show, it struck me. I thought, I wonder if she ever gets intimidated by interviews that she has to give. Has there been anybody that's been intimidating to you?

I think when I have to tackle topics that I don't know a great deal about that I feel like the learning curve is really steep. You know, if it's somebody on a specific aspect of foreign policy that I might not be uber knowledgeable about, or a medical thing that I don't know a lot about. Sometimes I do get intimidated, but I think at this point you just let your natural curiosity take over. You have a conversation, and I think the goal is to really make things accessible and understandable to people. So I remember Tom Friedman said to explain things simply, you have to understand them deeply. So I try to strike that balance of understanding something and then synthesizing it and distill.

I think when I have to tackle topics that I don't know a great deal about that I feel like the learning curve is really steep. You know, if it's somebody on a specific aspect of foreign policy that I might not be uber knowledgeable about, or a medical thing that I don't know a lot about. Sometimes I do get intimidated, but I think at this point you just let your natural curiosity take over. You have a conversation, and I think the goal is to really make things accessible and understandable to people. So I remember Tom Friedman said to explain things simply, you have to understand them deeply. So I try to strike that balance of understanding something and then synthesizing it and distill.

That's a that's a tall order, but the research involved, I think is daunting, and I'm sure you know, to make it accessible for other people is really.

That's a that's a tall order, but the research involved, I think is daunting, and I'm sure you know, to make it accessible for other people is really.

Is really the gift of being a journalist.

Is really the gift of being a journalist.

You wanted to be a journalist from the time you were a little kid. I mean, you're the You're the youngest of four, correct, you grew up in Virginia and you said you wanted to be a journalist from a young age. What how did you know that that's what you wanted. What was it about journalism that intrigued you.

You wanted to be a journalist from the time you were a little kid. I mean, you're the You're the youngest of four, correct, you grew up in Virginia and you said you wanted to be a journalist from a young age. What how did you know that that's what you wanted. What was it about journalism that intrigued you.

I think I wanted to do something that had to do with language and writing, and I think it was the process of elimination. Honestly, I wasn't very strong in math and science. I hate to say that because that's such a stereotypical thing, but I really gravitated towards words and language and writing and more creative pursuit. So I knew I wanted to do something that involved some form of communication, whether it was writing or radio or talking. And I think because my dad was a print journalist early in his career, and he saw that I wrote well, and I wrote quickly because I was such a procrastinator as a kid, I'd wait till the last minute to do my homework, but I was able to write things under pressure. And I think he thought, wow, journalism might be a really great career for you. I mean, he didn't say that, but we sort of went in that direction. And I got internships when I was in college, and I worked at three different radio stations, and I wrote for my school newspaper and at Uva, I wrote for the Cavalier Daily.

I think I wanted to do something that had to do with language and writing, and I think it was the process of elimination. Honestly, I wasn't very strong in math and science. I hate to say that because that's such a stereotypical thing, but I really gravitated towards words and language and writing and more creative pursuit. So I knew I wanted to do something that involved some form of communication, whether it was writing or radio or talking. And I think because my dad was a print journalist early in his career, and he saw that I wrote well, and I wrote quickly because I was such a procrastinator as a kid, I'd wait till the last minute to do my homework, but I was able to write things under pressure. And I think he thought, wow, journalism might be a really great career for you. I mean, he didn't say that, but we sort of went in that direction. And I got internships when I was in college, and I worked at three different radio stations, and I wrote for my school newspaper and at Uva, I wrote for the Cavalier Daily.

So I really enjoyed it.

So I really enjoyed it.

And you know, I think when you are lucky enough to find a job you'd love, that is such a gift.

And you know, I think when you are lucky enough to find a job you'd love, that is such a gift.

Do you remember the first time that you fell in love with the idea of news, like the news moment that made you just fall in love with that medium.

Do you remember the first time that you fell in love with the idea of news, like the news moment that made you just fall in love with that medium.

I don't remember if there was one particular moment. I just loved every aspect of jumping into a local news van, not knowing what you were going to find when you stopped to cover a story, having to jump out get your bearings, figure out what was going on, find people to talk to, start painting a picture of the story in your mind, listening to the sound bites on your little mini tape recorder on the way home, writing the script, figuring out what you're maybe if you're going live from the location, what your you know your live intro is going to be, what your outro is going to be, and doing it? Thank you much pressure. Oh yeah, it's so fun. It's such an adrenaline rush and it's just excite. And then you've got this thing that you've produced and it's done and it's over and you can go home and leave it behind.

I don't remember if there was one particular moment. I just loved every aspect of jumping into a local news van, not knowing what you were going to find when you stopped to cover a story, having to jump out get your bearings, figure out what was going on, find people to talk to, start painting a picture of the story in your mind, listening to the sound bites on your little mini tape recorder on the way home, writing the script, figuring out what you're maybe if you're going live from the location, what your you know your live intro is going to be, what your outro is going to be, and doing it? Thank you much pressure. Oh yeah, it's so fun. It's such an adrenaline rush and it's just excite. And then you've got this thing that you've produced and it's done and it's over and you can go home and leave it behind.

It's awesome.

It's awesome.

It's amazing.

It's amazing.

And also just the thinking on your feet and that being able to adapt. I mean, it's our version as an actor of improv. You know, you just it's yes, and you know, you never shut anything down. It's always what's the next thing. But it's interesting though I don't think you know, my daughter, I always things happen and things don't happen for them, and I try to tell them all the time that you know, rejection is just part of growth, and especially in this medium. What you're what you I mean there must have been so much rejection. And part of what I wanted to do with this show is to normalize rejection, you know, to show people that you can recover from it, that it happens to all of us, and it's how you're gone and how you continue that really reveals who you are.

And also just the thinking on your feet and that being able to adapt. I mean, it's our version as an actor of improv. You know, you just it's yes, and you know, you never shut anything down. It's always what's the next thing. But it's interesting though I don't think you know, my daughter, I always things happen and things don't happen for them, and I try to tell them all the time that you know, rejection is just part of growth, and especially in this medium. What you're what you I mean there must have been so much rejection. And part of what I wanted to do with this show is to normalize rejection, you know, to show people that you can recover from it, that it happens to all of us, and it's how you're gone and how you continue that really reveals who you are.

That's so true. That's so true.

That's so true. That's so true.

And I mean from the get go, I had people telling me, you know, oh, you're never going to make it in the business. The president of CNN when I did a really bad report, like I was too young and really bad, and he called the assignment desk at CNN in Washington said he never wanted to see me on the air again. Talk about like deflating. And you know, I had a really challenging time when I went to CBS, both internally with the politics there and externally with people I think wanting to tear me down and not picking up what I was putting down in terms of trying to retool an evening news broadcast. And it's hard, and you're right, everybody deals with rejection or disappointment or hopes at some point in their lives and it's no fun, but it's just part of life.

And I mean from the get go, I had people telling me, you know, oh, you're never going to make it in the business. The president of CNN when I did a really bad report, like I was too young and really bad, and he called the assignment desk at CNN in Washington said he never wanted to see me on the air again. Talk about like deflating. And you know, I had a really challenging time when I went to CBS, both internally with the politics there and externally with people I think wanting to tear me down and not picking up what I was putting down in terms of trying to retool an evening news broadcast. And it's hard, and you're right, everybody deals with rejection or disappointment or hopes at some point in their lives and it's no fun, but it's just part of life.

How did you move on from it, though, what do you do?

How did you move on from it, though, what do you do?

What was I mean?

What was I mean?

I think I had different reactions that differed two different disappointments, Like when the president of CNN said he never wanted to see me on the air again. I was just like devastated. But I also thought, maybe he's right. Maybe I need more experience. Maybe I'm not ready, and I just need to do it more. And that's when I moved to Atlanta and became a producer and started doing on air stuff little by little and found a mentor. That's when I went to Miami and became a local news and just churned out story after story. And you know, I agree with Malcolm Gladwell, it takes about ten thousand hours to get good at anything. And I just thought, you know, I'm just I need more practice, I need more experience. So I took it personally, and yet I didn't take it personally, and I tried to figure out, well, how could I change the circumstances I found myself in. When we come back, Brooke and I debunked the morning show stigma and discuss one of the central tenets of journalism objectivity. That's right after this. If you want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture. Sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Upcall by going to Katiecouric dot com.

I think I had different reactions that differed two different disappointments, Like when the president of CNN said he never wanted to see me on the air again. I was just like devastated. But I also thought, maybe he's right. Maybe I need more experience. Maybe I'm not ready, and I just need to do it more. And that's when I moved to Atlanta and became a producer and started doing on air stuff little by little and found a mentor. That's when I went to Miami and became a local news and just churned out story after story. And you know, I agree with Malcolm Gladwell, it takes about ten thousand hours to get good at anything. And I just thought, you know, I'm just I need more practice, I need more experience. So I took it personally, and yet I didn't take it personally, and I tried to figure out, well, how could I change the circumstances I found myself in. When we come back, Brooke and I debunked the morning show stigma and discuss one of the central tenets of journalism objectivity. That's right after this. If you want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture. Sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Upcall by going to Katiecouric dot com.

You were interviewed by people after you left CBS and you said you didn't think that people really internally, ever really accepted you. And you said, I thought we were much further along when it came to sexism. What prompted that observation.

You were interviewed by people after you left CBS and you said you didn't think that people really internally, ever really accepted you. And you said, I thought we were much further along when it came to sexism. What prompted that observation.

Well, I think if you had sort of been in my shoes during those five years. And I think a lot has changed. I think that sexism is still one of the most acceptable isms, less so than it used to be. But I think that I got criticized for what I wore my first night on the evening news. I got criticized for the way I held my hands, these really dopey things that a mail anchor would just never be subjected to. I mean, let's face it, it's more interesting, I think, to look at women on television because there's more variety. You know, men just look generally a certain way, where a certain suit and a tie, and I think that not everyone. And by the way, I had a lot of friends within CBS, but a lot of people I think sort of didn't like outsiders. It's a pretty insular place. People go there and they kind of spend their entire careers there. So I had the out status, I had the first woman's status. I had the morning show albatross around my neck, that somehow I lacked rabatas, which I always say is Latin for testicles, and you know, and that and that somehow I wasn't enough of a you know, a serious journalist to handle the CBS evening news, which was just honestly boloney. So I think there were a lot of and not just I think there were a lot of biases that honestly infected or affected the way people saw me in that role.

Well, I think if you had sort of been in my shoes during those five years. And I think a lot has changed. I think that sexism is still one of the most acceptable isms, less so than it used to be. But I think that I got criticized for what I wore my first night on the evening news. I got criticized for the way I held my hands, these really dopey things that a mail anchor would just never be subjected to. I mean, let's face it, it's more interesting, I think, to look at women on television because there's more variety. You know, men just look generally a certain way, where a certain suit and a tie, and I think that not everyone. And by the way, I had a lot of friends within CBS, but a lot of people I think sort of didn't like outsiders. It's a pretty insular place. People go there and they kind of spend their entire careers there. So I had the out status, I had the first woman's status. I had the morning show albatross around my neck, that somehow I lacked rabatas, which I always say is Latin for testicles, and you know, and that and that somehow I wasn't enough of a you know, a serious journalist to handle the CBS evening news, which was just honestly boloney. So I think there were a lot of and not just I think there were a lot of biases that honestly infected or affected the way people saw me in that role.

What just explained to me what the morning show stigma?

What just explained to me what the morning show stigma?

Oh well, I think that people, you know, even though Tom Brokaw did the Today Show, for example, and even John Chancellor did the Today Show, I think there is a feeling that the morning shows are very fluffy and that they don't deal with serious news, and they're not. They're not done or anchored by serious people. I think that's an unfair characterization because I did so many serious interviews during my fifteen years at the Today Show, and I did many dateline specials. I interviewed Supreme Court justices and presidents and world leaders. But I think that it just has this kind of unfair sort of impromoder as kind of a you know, a light fluffy show.

Oh well, I think that people, you know, even though Tom Brokaw did the Today Show, for example, and even John Chancellor did the Today Show, I think there is a feeling that the morning shows are very fluffy and that they don't deal with serious news, and they're not. They're not done or anchored by serious people. I think that's an unfair characterization because I did so many serious interviews during my fifteen years at the Today Show, and I did many dateline specials. I interviewed Supreme Court justices and presidents and world leaders. But I think that it just has this kind of unfair sort of impromoder as kind of a you know, a light fluffy show.

It's entertainment, not news.

It's entertainment, not news.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, But I was really really proud of working on The Today Show and really proud of a lot of the work we did in the stories and the serious stories I covered, from Oklahoma City bombing to nine to eleven, to presidential elections to all kinds of really important stories.

Yeah, But I was really really proud of working on The Today Show and really proud of a lot of the work we did in the stories and the serious stories I covered, from Oklahoma City bombing to nine to eleven, to presidential elections to all kinds of really important stories.

I mean, you've covered so much, and I'm curious about.

I mean, you've covered so much, and I'm curious about.

How you cover some of the more divisive issues without inserting your personal opinion.

How you cover some of the more divisive issues without inserting your personal opinion.

I honestly try to understand what the person is saying, and I try to learn from that and ask questions that I think other people would ask. I do try to, you know, have a vulcan mind meld with people who might be watching, and I try to be objective, but you know, I have at this point in my life, I'm sixty six years old. There are certain things that I really believe in it, and it is hard to sometimes, like interview somebody who is against abortion. You know, I'm for reproductive rights. I am for stricter gun laws. Have I think, at this point in my career, been able to say there's some things that I really deeply believe in, and so I think I do have biases when it comes to those topics. But in other instances is I just try to listen and challenge when necessary and in a respectful way, you know, have a conversation with people. But you know, as I think, there's no such thing as true objectivity. You know, unless you're doing the very strict to what when we're why, if you're trying to put any context or any kind of explanation behind an event, it's inevitable that your perspective is going to be influenced by your point of view in some way.

I honestly try to understand what the person is saying, and I try to learn from that and ask questions that I think other people would ask. I do try to, you know, have a vulcan mind meld with people who might be watching, and I try to be objective, but you know, I have at this point in my life, I'm sixty six years old. There are certain things that I really believe in it, and it is hard to sometimes, like interview somebody who is against abortion. You know, I'm for reproductive rights. I am for stricter gun laws. Have I think, at this point in my career, been able to say there's some things that I really deeply believe in, and so I think I do have biases when it comes to those topics. But in other instances is I just try to listen and challenge when necessary and in a respectful way, you know, have a conversation with people. But you know, as I think, there's no such thing as true objectivity. You know, unless you're doing the very strict to what when we're why, if you're trying to put any context or any kind of explanation behind an event, it's inevitable that your perspective is going to be influenced by your point of view in some way.

And do you feel like you are now there's areas of your personality that you can more freely and unapologetically share now that you might not have in your early days.

And do you feel like you are now there's areas of your personality that you can more freely and unapologetically share now that you might not have in your early days.

And news, yeah, they were like, you know, there were third rails, like you couldn't talk about gun violence. And I did a whole documentary about why gun violence was out of control in this country. You know, I couldn't have done that anchoring the Today Show, I could not have had a strong opinion.

And news, yeah, they were like, you know, there were third rails, like you couldn't talk about gun violence. And I did a whole documentary about why gun violence was out of control in this country. You know, I couldn't have done that anchoring the Today Show, I could not have had a strong opinion.

With your media company.

With your media company.

Now you can, yeah, put out the messaging that you believe in and you know, well, you know.

Now you can, yeah, put out the messaging that you believe in and you know, well, you know.

Brooke, I was able to shape the broadcast slightly differently when I was at CBS. I could focus more on women's stories. You know, we did something on dating violence, we did something on you know, sexual assault in the military. I did, you know, stories that I think a male anchor would not have necessarily thought about. And so I was able to make my mark in some ways when it came to story selection. So I feel like I wasn't totally you know, hamstrung by being in a more traditional media environment.

Brooke, I was able to shape the broadcast slightly differently when I was at CBS. I could focus more on women's stories. You know, we did something on dating violence, we did something on you know, sexual assault in the military. I did, you know, stories that I think a male anchor would not have necessarily thought about. And so I was able to make my mark in some ways when it came to story selection. So I feel like I wasn't totally you know, hamstrung by being in a more traditional media environment.

Well, I'm relieved and glad to hear that. I think you're a very strong business woman in so far as the way you handled this fascination with your personal life in a way that made it not get stolen from you. You know. I mean, I've felt that my whole life. But I'm right, I'm not in new I'm not in news, you know, but that that that piece is usually not something that gets it's usually that that personality and then the private life is the private life. But You've done such a sort of beautiful job of taking trials and tribulations, and you've been open about so much that you went through personally in your life, but also making them teaching moments and sharing them for other people's benefit. And I'm curious as to how you were able to reconcile that.

Well, I'm relieved and glad to hear that. I think you're a very strong business woman in so far as the way you handled this fascination with your personal life in a way that made it not get stolen from you. You know. I mean, I've felt that my whole life. But I'm right, I'm not in new I'm not in news, you know, but that that that piece is usually not something that gets it's usually that that personality and then the private life is the private life. But You've done such a sort of beautiful job of taking trials and tribulations, and you've been open about so much that you went through personally in your life, but also making them teaching moments and sharing them for other people's benefit. And I'm curious as to how you were able to reconcile that.

Yeah, well, you know, I think that morning television is such a different animal. You develop, you know, these parasocial relationships with the anchors. You do get to know them.

Yeah, well, you know, I think that morning television is such a different animal. You develop, you know, these parasocial relationships with the anchors. You do get to know them.

You know.

You know.

People would say to me, I feel like I know you, and I said, I'd always say, in many ways, I think you do. Because they'd see you in serious moments, they'd see you having fun, they'd see you having casual chit chat with your colleagues. And I think maybe there was a lot of interest in my personal life because I was very authentic to who I was on television that who I was off camera was really There was no difference really to how I mean.

People would say to me, I feel like I know you, and I said, I'd always say, in many ways, I think you do. Because they'd see you in serious moments, they'd see you having fun, they'd see you having casual chit chat with your colleagues. And I think maybe there was a lot of interest in my personal life because I was very authentic to who I was on television that who I was off camera was really There was no difference really to how I mean.

There were some limitations of.

There were some limitations of.

Things I would do on television that I wouldn't do off camera, but I was very much the same person with the same persona. And I think when people saw me pregnant, they were with me when I had both of my girls. They were with me when my husband Jay got sick.

Things I would do on television that I wouldn't do off camera, but I was very much the same person with the same persona. And I think when people saw me pregnant, they were with me when I had both of my girls. They were with me when my husband Jay got sick.

You know.

You know.

There I was a forty one year old widow with two children, six and two, and I think people felt terrible for me in the most loving way. I mean, obviously, how can you say that about millions of people, But I did feel this support coming to me from from the Today Show viewers and the audience that you know does welcome you and your home and their home like your kind of family. And having seen that terrible thing happen to Jay, and then to see me try to be resilient and move forward, then I think people became interested in my love life. Like you know, it made for good tabloid fodder, and you know, it was just part of being I think at the time where morning shows had a real place in the culture, more so than I think they do today because of the friendgmentation of media, and I think people just were interested in that how I was going to move forward.

There I was a forty one year old widow with two children, six and two, and I think people felt terrible for me in the most loving way. I mean, obviously, how can you say that about millions of people, But I did feel this support coming to me from from the Today Show viewers and the audience that you know does welcome you and your home and their home like your kind of family. And having seen that terrible thing happen to Jay, and then to see me try to be resilient and move forward, then I think people became interested in my love life. Like you know, it made for good tabloid fodder, and you know, it was just part of being I think at the time where morning shows had a real place in the culture, more so than I think they do today because of the friendgmentation of media, and I think people just were interested in that how I was going to move forward.

I mean, I mean sometimes it felt sometimes.

I mean, I mean sometimes it felt sometimes.

It felt invasive, but during the trauma of losing Jay, it was so helpful. It was so comforting. I felt so cared about by complete strangers who sent me mass cards and sympathy notes and stories about loss that they had experienced. It was actually really beautiful and I still have many of those letters in big tupperware bins in my basement. And you know, I at Jay's funeral, I asked everyone who came to write letters to ellieen Carey because I knew that they were not going to have the privilege of really getting to know their father, and so to be able to have those that people wrote such beautiful, thoughtful notes and letters and multi page letters to the girls. That is really love. That's compassion, that's empathy. And I felt it so strongly, and you know, a loss, it was a terrible loss, but it did help and it was comforting to know that people were out there holding me in their hearts. After this quick break, Brooke and I reflect on the burden and privilege of having a platform and how we both try to use ours in a positive way.

It felt invasive, but during the trauma of losing Jay, it was so helpful. It was so comforting. I felt so cared about by complete strangers who sent me mass cards and sympathy notes and stories about loss that they had experienced. It was actually really beautiful and I still have many of those letters in big tupperware bins in my basement. And you know, I at Jay's funeral, I asked everyone who came to write letters to ellieen Carey because I knew that they were not going to have the privilege of really getting to know their father, and so to be able to have those that people wrote such beautiful, thoughtful notes and letters and multi page letters to the girls. That is really love. That's compassion, that's empathy. And I felt it so strongly, and you know, a loss, it was a terrible loss, but it did help and it was comforting to know that people were out there holding me in their hearts. After this quick break, Brooke and I reflect on the burden and privilege of having a platform and how we both try to use ours in a positive way.

You know, when I had very severe postpartum and wrote and I wrote about it, I.

You know, when I had very severe postpartum and wrote and I wrote about it, I.

Stay right, you came on the Today Show.

Stay right, you came on the Today Show.

I did. But to this day, people come with women come up to me and tears in their eyes and they and they cry and they say thank you, and you know, and it's that there's something to be.

I did. But to this day, people come with women come up to me and tears in their eyes and they and they cry and they say thank you, and you know, and it's that there's something to be.

Said for shared loss or shared.

Said for shared loss or shared.

Experience, or that you know you're not alone, and that you know to be willing to be open to that I think is obviously a sign of who you are as a person.

Experience, or that you know you're not alone, and that you know to be willing to be open to that I think is obviously a sign of who you are as a person.

Well.

Well.

I think especially you know, when it comes to taboo topics like postpartum depression that people are so terrified of and so frightened by, and to break the stigma and to let people share and know it's okay and that there's help. I mean, you did a tremendous public service, and I hope that I did the same with colon cancer. You know, nobody talked about colon cancer when CHA got sick and died, and nobody really talked about the fact that it's highly preventable if you get screened. And you know, I think when you're a public figure, you have a platform, and with that platform comes to responsibility and if you can educate people and arm them with information that will help them, that could even save their lives. I hate to say it, but I think it's really selfish not share, not to share your experience.

I think especially you know, when it comes to taboo topics like postpartum depression that people are so terrified of and so frightened by, and to break the stigma and to let people share and know it's okay and that there's help. I mean, you did a tremendous public service, and I hope that I did the same with colon cancer. You know, nobody talked about colon cancer when CHA got sick and died, and nobody really talked about the fact that it's highly preventable if you get screened. And you know, I think when you're a public figure, you have a platform, and with that platform comes to responsibility and if you can educate people and arm them with information that will help them, that could even save their lives. I hate to say it, but I think it's really selfish not share, not to share your experience.

And I you know, I call this show now What because it's really about those pivotal times in our lives when something very massive happens and we we really are are the rug is pulled out from underneath us, and we are thinking, oh shit.

And I you know, I call this show now What because it's really about those pivotal times in our lives when something very massive happens and we we really are are the rug is pulled out from underneath us, and we are thinking, oh shit.

What do I you know?

What do I you know?

Now?

Now?

What do I do?

What do I do?

And I imagine you've had many now what moments? Was that one of your biggest? Now what moments? How did you move forward from that?

And I imagine you've had many now what moments? Was that one of your biggest? Now what moments? How did you move forward from that?

I think when you have children, you really have no option but to put one foot ahead of the other. You know, when something like that happens, you don't have the luxury of staying in bed and pulling the covers over your head. You have to be there for your kids. You have a responsibility. You have to parent. And so that's what I did. And I also, you know, I was a single parent. I had to keep working. I wanted to keep working. I loved my job. And I think early on realize that we're all terminal and we have a finite amount of time on this planet, and that I don't think Jay would want to destroy two lives because he got cancer. I think he would want me to bring as much joy into our daughter's lives as possible. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the earth belongs to the li and that sounds selfish and cold in a way, I guess, but I think it means, you know, we're here and we have to make the most of our time while we have it, because you never know, and life is fragile and you have to go on. And I wanted to go on. I didn't want two or four lives to be to be destroyed because Jay got cancer, and god, it sucks. You know, it's so maddening when someone young, especially gets cancer. They're so cheated out of so much. And I'm still really angry about it, honestly, it's just so unfair and infuriating.

I think when you have children, you really have no option but to put one foot ahead of the other. You know, when something like that happens, you don't have the luxury of staying in bed and pulling the covers over your head. You have to be there for your kids. You have a responsibility. You have to parent. And so that's what I did. And I also, you know, I was a single parent. I had to keep working. I wanted to keep working. I loved my job. And I think early on realize that we're all terminal and we have a finite amount of time on this planet, and that I don't think Jay would want to destroy two lives because he got cancer. I think he would want me to bring as much joy into our daughter's lives as possible. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the earth belongs to the li and that sounds selfish and cold in a way, I guess, but I think it means, you know, we're here and we have to make the most of our time while we have it, because you never know, and life is fragile and you have to go on. And I wanted to go on. I didn't want two or four lives to be to be destroyed because Jay got cancer, and god, it sucks. You know, it's so maddening when someone young, especially gets cancer. They're so cheated out of so much. And I'm still really angry about it, honestly, it's just so unfair and infuriating.

And you started a very important organization, Stand Up to Cancer. Yeah, you co founded fifteen years ago, right.

And you started a very important organization, Stand Up to Cancer. Yeah, you co founded fifteen years ago, right.

Right, and you raise with a bunch of women who were just really angry, like I was, about the pace of cancer research. When Jay got diagnosed with colorectal cancer and it was metastatic, it was all over his liver. The first line chemotherapy was something that had been around since the nineteen fifties and this was nineteen ninety seven, and it just infuriated me that they didn't have more options. And it was very motivating not only for me to get involved with callon Cancer Research, but I realized so many cancers needed more, more support, more funding. You know, one out of ten promising research proposals is approved or funded by the NCI, and that means so many, so many exciting possibilities are left on the cutting room floor. And I just said, we have to support cancer research. You know, it's still so much progress has been made, but it's still a devastating disease. So many people die of cancer still.

Right, and you raise with a bunch of women who were just really angry, like I was, about the pace of cancer research. When Jay got diagnosed with colorectal cancer and it was metastatic, it was all over his liver. The first line chemotherapy was something that had been around since the nineteen fifties and this was nineteen ninety seven, and it just infuriated me that they didn't have more options. And it was very motivating not only for me to get involved with callon Cancer Research, but I realized so many cancers needed more, more support, more funding. You know, one out of ten promising research proposals is approved or funded by the NCI, and that means so many, so many exciting possibilities are left on the cutting room floor. And I just said, we have to support cancer research. You know, it's still so much progress has been made, but it's still a devastating disease. So many people die of cancer still.

I mean that you lost your sister yes years.

I mean that you lost your sister yes years.

Later, she was fifty four and running for lieutenant governor of Virginia, and that infuriates me too. I mean, anyone listening to this who knows somebody who was taken way too soon from this disease. It's just it's awful, and it's uh, you know, one in one in two men and one in three women will be diagnosed with this in their lifetime. So that's why I'm so passionate about funding research and science. You know, it's really become my life's work. And I think when you're touched by something personally brooke as you know, you become really invested in doing something about it.

Later, she was fifty four and running for lieutenant governor of Virginia, and that infuriates me too. I mean, anyone listening to this who knows somebody who was taken way too soon from this disease. It's just it's awful, and it's uh, you know, one in one in two men and one in three women will be diagnosed with this in their lifetime. So that's why I'm so passionate about funding research and science. You know, it's really become my life's work. And I think when you're touched by something personally brooke as you know, you become really invested in doing something about it.

Well, it's it's you've made a huge amount of a difference, and I have hundreds of millions of dollars to research and care. Has happened because of stand up to cancer. I mean, I think there's so much around it. My dad died of pros day cancer, which you don't have to die from.

Well, it's it's you've made a huge amount of a difference, and I have hundreds of millions of dollars to research and care. Has happened because of stand up to cancer. I mean, I think there's so much around it. My dad died of pros day cancer, which you don't have to die from.

Right.

Right.

So we have not mentioned your sweet husband, but you have been with your husband John for You've been with Mulner for a decade, right, more than a yeah.

So we have not mentioned your sweet husband, but you have been with your husband John for You've been with Mulner for a decade, right, more than a yeah.

Yeah. We're having our ten year anniversary this June. And he really likes your husband Chris too. I'm lucky. I think we have funny husbands, yes, and kind of in that dry, sarcastic, funny way. And I have to say Mulner, who I call by his last name, I don't know how I started that.

Yeah. We're having our ten year anniversary this June. And he really likes your husband Chris too. I'm lucky. I think we have funny husbands, yes, and kind of in that dry, sarcastic, funny way. And I have to say Mulner, who I call by his last name, I don't know how I started that.

I call Henchy henchy, so you do.

I call Henchy henchy, so you do.

He just is a very funny person, and he gets frustrated with me because I'm a bit of a mess.

He just is a very funny person, and he gets frustrated with me because I'm a bit of a mess.

I'm kind of like pig pen.

I'm kind of like pig pen.

I leave a little trail of junk wherever I go, and he is a neat freak, so that sometimes creates problems for us. But most of the time we get along really really well, and he does make me laugh.

I leave a little trail of junk wherever I go, and he is a neat freak, so that sometimes creates problems for us. But most of the time we get along really really well, and he does make me laugh.

Is there something that you're I mean, I just love you keep going forward and the energy you have too. It's not even reinventing, it's just repurposing and re exploring or I don't even know if re is the right word. It's just you know you and you're such an inspiration to I started a company for and we've talked about it for women. Yeah, in this era of our lives, you know, that is full of possibility, and there is so much more and we have so much to offer, and we're so versatile and we're beautifully complex and we we've done so many things, and we've yes wise and raised children. And is there something you're especially excited about in this next chapter?

Is there something that you're I mean, I just love you keep going forward and the energy you have too. It's not even reinventing, it's just repurposing and re exploring or I don't even know if re is the right word. It's just you know you and you're such an inspiration to I started a company for and we've talked about it for women. Yeah, in this era of our lives, you know, that is full of possibility, and there is so much more and we have so much to offer, and we're so versatile and we're beautifully complex and we we've done so many things, and we've yes wise and raised children. And is there something you're especially excited about in this next chapter?

I mean, I honestly, you know, I just enjoy trying my hardest and sometimes succeeding and putting good things out in the world. Good things don't have to be happy things. They can be you know, conversations about important topics, journalism or whatever it is I do. Storytelling is a can be and often I hope is a public service.

I mean, I honestly, you know, I just enjoy trying my hardest and sometimes succeeding and putting good things out in the world. Good things don't have to be happy things. They can be you know, conversations about important topics, journalism or whatever it is I do. Storytelling is a can be and often I hope is a public service.

You know that.

You know that.

It's even if I don't have a huge audience or an interview, I do gets five thousand people. You know, when I used to have five million people watching the Today Show, I feel like if that's helped somebody understand something, if it's helped them kind of take care of their health, if it's made them aware of something they didn't know, Like, I don't know, that's just I guess my love language is telling stories and sharing information.

It's even if I don't have a huge audience or an interview, I do gets five thousand people. You know, when I used to have five million people watching the Today Show, I feel like if that's helped somebody understand something, if it's helped them kind of take care of their health, if it's made them aware of something they didn't know, Like, I don't know, that's just I guess my love language is telling stories and sharing information.

And I'm excited, you know.

And I'm excited, you know.

I'm excited that I'm starting a production company and I'm going to get more involved in scripted and nonscripted projects, which is great. You and I should talk and maybe collaborate on something.

I'm excited that I'm starting a production company and I'm going to get more involved in scripted and nonscripted projects, which is great. You and I should talk and maybe collaborate on something.

I would love that there's I'm starting to find fine books and fine stories that I really do resonate and that I want to see cinematically.

I would love that there's I'm starting to find fine books and fine stories that I really do resonate and that I want to see cinematically.

And I feel like I think female voices are getting out there in a way that they haven't before. I think over the last several years, women and their stories and their voices and the people behind the scenes are really making their mark. And I'm excited to have that kind of storytelling be part of my portfolio as well. Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me, a subject you want us to cover, or you want to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world, reach out You can leave a short message at six oh nine five point two five five five, or you can send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

And I feel like I think female voices are getting out there in a way that they haven't before. I think over the last several years, women and their stories and their voices and the people behind the scenes are really making their mark. And I'm excited to have that kind of storytelling be part of my portfolio as well. Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me, a subject you want us to cover, or you want to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world, reach out You can leave a short message at six oh nine five point two five five five, or you can send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.