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Africa's richest person says the time is right for Nigeria to end its fuel subsidy.

Africa's richest person says the time is right for Nigeria to end its fuel subsidy.

The removal of subsidy is totally dependent on the government, not on us. But I think at the end of the day, this subsidy will have to do.

The removal of subsidy is totally dependent on the government, not on us. But I think at the end of the day, this subsidy will have to do.

But can the billionaire's latest venture help revive the economy of Africa's top oil producer.

But can the billionaire's latest venture help revive the economy of Africa's top oil producer.

Ninety percent of the entire world did not really give us a chance. Nobody really believe we'll come fully talk, but we did.

Ninety percent of the entire world did not really give us a chance. Nobody really believe we'll come fully talk, but we did.

On this episode of The Next Africa Podcast, we'll take a deeper look at Alico dan Gote's exclusive interview with Bloomberg and why what he says about the Nigerian economy really matters. I'm Jennifer's Abasaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each week from the continent driving the future of global growth, but the context only Bloomberg can provide. And Nduka Orgimo is a Bloomberger reporter based in Abuja and he's joining us now and also has been covering this story very closely.

On this episode of The Next Africa Podcast, we'll take a deeper look at Alico dan Gote's exclusive interview with Bloomberg and why what he says about the Nigerian economy really matters. I'm Jennifer's Abasaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each week from the continent driving the future of global growth, but the context only Bloomberg can provide. And Nduka Orgimo is a Bloomberger reporter based in Abuja and he's joining us now and also has been covering this story very closely.

Hi in Duka, how are you hi?

Hi in Duka, how are you hi?

Jenna fine? Thank you?

Jenna fine? Thank you?

Good So this was a pretty extensive interview and some word that we got from dan Gote. But let's maybe start with some background about who he is. Who is the Lego dan Gote and how did he get to being the richest person in Africa right now?

Good So this was a pretty extensive interview and some word that we got from dan Gote. But let's maybe start with some background about who he is. Who is the Lego dan Gote and how did he get to being the richest person in Africa right now?

He's an old school industrialis Yeah, it almost feels like he's from another era. He comes from you a wealthy family. I mean, he says to himself. His great grandfather was one of the richest presents in Africa in the nineteen forties. His late grandfather was also one of the wealthiest ninetels at the time. His father was Fela Vishtu, died when Dangote.

He's an old school industrialis Yeah, it almost feels like he's from another era. He comes from you a wealthy family. I mean, he says to himself. His great grandfather was one of the richest presents in Africa in the nineteen forties. His late grandfather was also one of the wealthiest ninetels at the time. His father was Fela Vishtu, died when Dangote.

Was ets old. He's cold in Egypt.

Was ets old. He's cold in Egypt.

Came back to n Nigeria in nineteen seventy eight ish and started trading in in cements, started trading in sugar and in other commodities.

Came back to n Nigeria in nineteen seventy eight ish and started trading in in cements, started trading in sugar and in other commodities.

But it was in two thousand and.

But it was in two thousand and.

Seven that he began to manufacture his own cements here in Nigeria and.

Seven that he began to manufacture his own cements here in Nigeria and.

That's when his wealth really took off.

That's when his wealth really took off.

But if you want to trace his wealth, I think it's down to that explosion of his cement's manufacturing in Nigeria and then his expansion to other Africa countries.

But if you want to trace his wealth, I think it's down to that explosion of his cement's manufacturing in Nigeria and then his expansion to other Africa countries.

His at the moments, he's transitioning.

His at the moments, he's transitioning.

Into what we think is the next face of his empire, which is still in this mega refinery in Legos. That refinery is the largest in Africa. It can refine fifty thousand bars of fruit per day.

Into what we think is the next face of his empire, which is still in this mega refinery in Legos. That refinery is the largest in Africa. It can refine fifty thousand bars of fruit per day.

And I think what's important to note too in Duka is this was a long time coming. At the same time he talks about now is the time to end the subsidies because of the refinery that he has built. Can you maybe give us some context as to how oil is being and has been subsidized in Nigeria and why he's saying now is the time.

And I think what's important to note too in Duka is this was a long time coming. At the same time he talks about now is the time to end the subsidies because of the refinery that he has built. Can you maybe give us some context as to how oil is being and has been subsidized in Nigeria and why he's saying now is the time.

You need to understand Aura's place in North Africa's top all nations. Nigeria is the continuous largest fruit producer. However, Nigeria is unable to refine its own fruit domestically. So what has happened over time is that Nigeria has shipped food oil to refine us a build in Asia and in Europe and then has had to import refined fuel. What has happened over time in Nigeria is that Nigermians have had to pay one of the cheapests.

You need to understand Aura's place in North Africa's top all nations. Nigeria is the continuous largest fruit producer. However, Nigeria is unable to refine its own fruit domestically. So what has happened over time is that Nigeria has shipped food oil to refine us a build in Asia and in Europe and then has had to import refined fuel. What has happened over time in Nigeria is that Nigermians have had to pay one of the cheapests.

For gasoline in the world that's refined.

For gasoline in the world that's refined.

Photograts imported by the government is then subsidized. Wearing Nigerias don't pay the full market value at the pump. Nigeria's have paid the cheapest for a very long time, since probably nineteen seventies. That's when the government first introduced the subsidy into into the economy, and Juras tend to see it as their own share of what they call the national kick, and this is governments in ability to provide other basic amenities. The schools are not in the best shape. What are in most cities. The roads are not in the best shape. You know, you don't have stable electricity. So I think the government has how to compensate for this incompetence, almost by then subsidizing gasoline that Nigerians think is giving resources that it should be paying the cheapest value for.

Photograts imported by the government is then subsidized. Wearing Nigerias don't pay the full market value at the pump. Nigeria's have paid the cheapest for a very long time, since probably nineteen seventies. That's when the government first introduced the subsidy into into the economy, and Juras tend to see it as their own share of what they call the national kick, and this is governments in ability to provide other basic amenities. The schools are not in the best shape. What are in most cities. The roads are not in the best shape. You know, you don't have stable electricity. So I think the government has how to compensate for this incompetence, almost by then subsidizing gasoline that Nigerians think is giving resources that it should be paying the cheapest value for.

That sort of paints the picture very clearly in Duga about how sensitive potentially the issue is.

That sort of paints the picture very clearly in Duga about how sensitive potentially the issue is.

Let's hear from dan Gote on this in particular.

Let's hear from dan Gote on this in particular.

Subsidy is a very sensitive issue. If you know, I believe the problem is not only the subsidy. It is problem that you know, once you are subsidizing something, then people will be blotting the numbers and government will end up paying what they're not supposed to be paying. But this refinerary will bring quite a lot of issues up there, you know, it will show the real consumption of Nigeria. We have to make a profit. We build something worth twenty billion dollars, so definitely we have to make money. The removal of subsidy is totally dependent on the government, not on us. We cannot change you know, price, but I think, you know, the government will have to, you know, give up something for something, you know, so I think at the end of the day, the subsidy would have to go.

Subsidy is a very sensitive issue. If you know, I believe the problem is not only the subsidy. It is problem that you know, once you are subsidizing something, then people will be blotting the numbers and government will end up paying what they're not supposed to be paying. But this refinerary will bring quite a lot of issues up there, you know, it will show the real consumption of Nigeria. We have to make a profit. We build something worth twenty billion dollars, so definitely we have to make money. The removal of subsidy is totally dependent on the government, not on us. We cannot change you know, price, but I think, you know, the government will have to, you know, give up something for something, you know, so I think at the end of the day, the subsidy would have to go.

You know, when Duga you were just talking about the complexities with the subsidies for all people involved, especially for the government, right because removing it would create people upset and uproar, especially considering the cost of living.

You know, when Duga you were just talking about the complexities with the subsidies for all people involved, especially for the government, right because removing it would create people upset and uproar, especially considering the cost of living.

Exactly, it's more a political issue than an economic one. And you have to understand that it's a huge drain on Nigeria's resources. So in twenty two, Nigeria's pains you know, around ten billion dollars to subsidize gasoline, So that's monion that could have been spent on many other things.

Exactly, it's more a political issue than an economic one. And you have to understand that it's a huge drain on Nigeria's resources. So in twenty two, Nigeria's pains you know, around ten billion dollars to subsidize gasoline, So that's monion that could have been spent on many other things.

And the World Bank and IMF.

And the World Bank and IMF.

And you have long called for the government to self subsidize in fuel, especially gasoline, but it's difficult to do so. And I'll take you back to twenty twelve when the government of then President Bulog Jonathan attempted to remove fuel subsidi on gasoline, and there was this huge protest and that protest governized your position to then topple the incumbent, that's Bulllogjenathan three years later at the general elections in twenty fifteen. When President Bonatino came in last year in May, he promised to remove the subsidient gasoline and then reinvest all that money elsewhere. What then happened was that inflation that was already high, skyrocketed, and then price of transport went up, and of course went up.

And you have long called for the government to self subsidize in fuel, especially gasoline, but it's difficult to do so. And I'll take you back to twenty twelve when the government of then President Bulog Jonathan attempted to remove fuel subsidi on gasoline, and there was this huge protest and that protest governized your position to then topple the incumbent, that's Bulllogjenathan three years later at the general elections in twenty fifteen. When President Bonatino came in last year in May, he promised to remove the subsidient gasoline and then reinvest all that money elsewhere. What then happened was that inflation that was already high, skyrocketed, and then price of transport went up, and of course went up.

Price went up, and the government ceotic was unsustained.

Price went up, and the government ceotic was unsustained.

So two months later, in August, there was a cap on the price of gasoline. So in effect, subsidy of gasoline was re introduced by President Polacin.

So two months later, in August, there was a cap on the price of gasoline. So in effect, subsidy of gasoline was re introduced by President Polacin.

But just to give you an idea of how.

But just to give you an idea of how.

Difficult it's being to to actually end and the subsidy, andreas are still not paying the true cost of gasoline. But the government is hoping now that we the refinery coming on board, it can effectively end any subsidy on gasoline. But I think the truth test of whether or not Nigerians want to start paying the true value of gasoline at the comps is when we see that fluctuation again of food. Gwen pop So Andrians are getting to the market at the time when crude when it goes up. I guess doesn't see the truth test of this policy.

Difficult it's being to to actually end and the subsidy, andreas are still not paying the true cost of gasoline. But the government is hoping now that we the refinery coming on board, it can effectively end any subsidy on gasoline. But I think the truth test of whether or not Nigerians want to start paying the true value of gasoline at the comps is when we see that fluctuation again of food. Gwen pop So Andrians are getting to the market at the time when crude when it goes up. I guess doesn't see the truth test of this policy.

That was a really great picture that you just painted in Duga and just the fluctuations and the really the history and the story of crude and Nigeria and its effect on Nigerians with us and DUCA. When we come back, we'll have more on Africa's purchase man. Welcome back today on the podcast, we're looking at Africa's industrialists. Aliko, Deng Goote and Duka is still with us SO and Duka. Let's look more at the man behind the empire. Right.

That was a really great picture that you just painted in Duga and just the fluctuations and the really the history and the story of crude and Nigeria and its effect on Nigerians with us and DUCA. When we come back, we'll have more on Africa's purchase man. Welcome back today on the podcast, we're looking at Africa's industrialists. Aliko, Deng Goote and Duka is still with us SO and Duka. Let's look more at the man behind the empire. Right.

He talked about how he.

He talked about how he.

Is a massive Arsenal fan and has been linked with the club in the past, but perhaps the dreams that he had of yesteryear have have moved on.

Is a massive Arsenal fan and has been linked with the club in the past, but perhaps the dreams that he had of yesteryear have have moved on.

Let's play a clip from what he told us earlier.

Let's play a clip from what he told us earlier.

This week, Asina is doing extremely very well. That time Asenau wasn't doing well. I think, you know, I don't have that kind of excess liquidity to go and buy a club for four billion dollars so to speak, or rather do something of the money. What I will do, I'll continue to be the biggest fan of Arsenal. Every day, anytime that they are planing, I would watch, So I will remain a major supporter of Arsenal. But I don't think if it makes sense today to buy Arsenal.

This week, Asina is doing extremely very well. That time Asenau wasn't doing well. I think, you know, I don't have that kind of excess liquidity to go and buy a club for four billion dollars so to speak, or rather do something of the money. What I will do, I'll continue to be the biggest fan of Arsenal. Every day, anytime that they are planing, I would watch, So I will remain a major supporter of Arsenal. But I don't think if it makes sense today to buy Arsenal.

Do you regret not buying it before?

Do you regret not buying it before?

We Actually I regret not buying is before. But you know, my money was more needed in completing my project than buying Arsenal.

We Actually I regret not buying is before. But you know, my money was more needed in completing my project than buying Arsenal.

So you would have bought it for two billion, I would.

So you would have bought it for two billion, I would.

Have bought it for two billion, yeah, but you know I wouldn't have been able to finish my project, you know. So it's either finished your project, will go and buy Arsenal, And I think the best decision was for us to now go and complete our refinery.

Have bought it for two billion, yeah, but you know I wouldn't have been able to finish my project, you know. So it's either finished your project, will go and buy Arsenal, And I think the best decision was for us to now go and complete our refinery.

So Druka football is important to many people, but maybe you can tell us just how important is it to a legal.

So Druka football is important to many people, but maybe you can tell us just how important is it to a legal.

And go to Well, this is my favorite part of the show because I can talk about us now. And that's one thing I share a couple with with We are both Arsenal fans. He's a big fan of the North London club. He's been a lifelong supporter and a few years back he started hearing that he was interested in buying Arsenal Football Club. Whether or not the club was up for sale was a different math altogether, but it seemed like she was serious about buying Arsenal. He was interested in buying the club when they were not doing quite well in the English Premier League.

And go to Well, this is my favorite part of the show because I can talk about us now. And that's one thing I share a couple with with We are both Arsenal fans. He's a big fan of the North London club. He's been a lifelong supporter and a few years back he started hearing that he was interested in buying Arsenal Football Club. Whether or not the club was up for sale was a different math altogether, but it seemed like she was serious about buying Arsenal. He was interested in buying the club when they were not doing quite well in the English Premier League.

But now if we are competing for the Championship once again.

But now if we are competing for the Championship once again.

But he thinks that his money is his best it lies elsewhere and he's giving up a north farce of buying the club. What he insisted he still remain the biggest fan of the club in Nigeria.

But he thinks that his money is his best it lies elsewhere and he's giving up a north farce of buying the club. What he insisted he still remain the biggest fan of the club in Nigeria.

Wow, bigger than in Duka. Really we'll see. So, I guess on the one hand, it's a dream loss. But also, as you said, as an Arsenal fan for yourself, the team is doing well right, so potentially good for both of you. And let's just finish on what more we learned from Dan Gote. What really stood out to you, as somebody who is covering what is happening in the country day and day out, what is it that you are paying close attention to?

Wow, bigger than in Duka. Really we'll see. So, I guess on the one hand, it's a dream loss. But also, as you said, as an Arsenal fan for yourself, the team is doing well right, so potentially good for both of you. And let's just finish on what more we learned from Dan Gote. What really stood out to you, as somebody who is covering what is happening in the country day and day out, what is it that you are paying close attention to?

Based on what deng Goo tees.

Based on what deng Goo tees.

We learned for the first time that he's now opening a family office in Dubai and it's going to be headed by his daughter Halima. Now this this office in Dubai is going to seek out global investments to basically diversify the grovesholders beyond its industrials. At the moments, we have for a while now been wondering what's his succession plan is, and that give us an idea how he sees the empire progressing when he's no longer here. And then the big bid for me was him saying that he thought it was a big mistake on the part of the States owned NNPC, so I've dropped their stake in its refinery. The NFPC is okay twenty percent stake in the Dangote refinery, but re learned in June this year that that stick had been cut to seven percent, and he's said in that interview that it was a big mistake for the NPSIS to QUOTDS stakes. So I think it tells you a lot about what he sees the potentials of their finarity, thinks he's going with that project. To say that the state's minute dig mistake taking up the full twenty percent, I think speaks a lot about how do antipas himself to really make a killing off of the projects in Legos.

We learned for the first time that he's now opening a family office in Dubai and it's going to be headed by his daughter Halima. Now this this office in Dubai is going to seek out global investments to basically diversify the grovesholders beyond its industrials. At the moments, we have for a while now been wondering what's his succession plan is, and that give us an idea how he sees the empire progressing when he's no longer here. And then the big bid for me was him saying that he thought it was a big mistake on the part of the States owned NNPC, so I've dropped their stake in its refinery. The NFPC is okay twenty percent stake in the Dangote refinery, but re learned in June this year that that stick had been cut to seven percent, and he's said in that interview that it was a big mistake for the NPSIS to QUOTDS stakes. So I think it tells you a lot about what he sees the potentials of their finarity, thinks he's going with that project. To say that the state's minute dig mistake taking up the full twenty percent, I think speaks a lot about how do antipas himself to really make a killing off of the projects in Legos.

It was really a wide ranging interview and fascinating to hear from him and Duka. Thank you so much for joining us, for walking us through it, and also for your reporting today and every day.

It was really a wide ranging interview and fascinating to hear from him and Duka. Thank you so much for joining us, for walking us through it, and also for your reporting today and every day.

Really appreciate it.

Really appreciate it.

Pleasure and you can see.

Pleasure and you can see.

The interview on Bloomberg right now, and we'll also link it to Induka's Nigeria coverage that will be in our show notes. Other stories we're watching in the region this week. The World Bank is in talks with Uganda to find a compromise over anti LGBTQ legislation to try to end a freeze in lending. Civil rights groups are warning any leniency, though, will set a global precedent. Also, President Biden is set to make a trip to Ngola of filling his promise to visit the continent before his presidency is over. He'll hope to use the trip to convince African leaders that the region is still a priority for the US. You can follow these stories across Bloomberg, including the Next Africa Newsletter. We'll put a link to our newsletter in the show notes. This program was produced by Adrian Bradley. Don't forget to follow and review this show wherever you usually get your podcast. I'm Jennifer's Abisanja. Thank you so much for listening.

The interview on Bloomberg right now, and we'll also link it to Induka's Nigeria coverage that will be in our show notes. Other stories we're watching in the region this week. The World Bank is in talks with Uganda to find a compromise over anti LGBTQ legislation to try to end a freeze in lending. Civil rights groups are warning any leniency, though, will set a global precedent. Also, President Biden is set to make a trip to Ngola of filling his promise to visit the continent before his presidency is over. He'll hope to use the trip to convince African leaders that the region is still a priority for the US. You can follow these stories across Bloomberg, including the Next Africa Newsletter. We'll put a link to our newsletter in the show notes. This program was produced by Adrian Bradley. Don't forget to follow and review this show wherever you usually get your podcast. I'm Jennifer's Abisanja. Thank you so much for listening.