The nerds are joined by Theo Ash of the Stay Hot podcast to rank EVERY SINGLE starting QB in the NFL. Is Baker Mayfield Top 10 or outside the Top 20? Is Sam Darnold entering elite conversations? Is Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert the better QB? Does Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes deserve to be viewed as QB1? We’re diving into it all!
Timestamps
00:03:59 - Criteria
00:06:23 - 32-25
00:37:31 - 24-20
01:24:56 - 19-15
01:58:07 - 14-10
02:23:51 - 9-6
02:38:42 - Top 5 QBs
#Volume
The volume.
Oh my god, how could he do that? By w Charles Darwin.
The nerves is where it's at.
Welcome everybody, back, Eats NERD Sash as always, I'm Carson Beaver and alongside me is Logan Camden. And today we have a special guest on the show with us, theo Ash our old pal, our college classmate, a scholar who we studied the ancient Greeks alongside, and now a fellow podcaster. We got a really fun show today. We're gonna be ranking the thirty two starting quarterbacks in the NFL one to thirty two. But before we get into all of that, THEO how the hell are you? Christmas is nigh? It is just around the corner. Are you just learning this? That's very exciting? What's that hold in the cards for you? Are you excited?
Well, let's see. Honestly, the NFL has me working like Scrooge during Christmas. Like they got games on Christmas and like on Christmas Eve and like the day after Christmas. So I tell my family and my girlfriend you can't see me this year. I'll be away in the minds. Yeah, watching who's even playing? I don't even I don't even know right now, I'll be watching I'll be watching Broderick Jones. I'm sorry, I've got a I can't stay. I can't stay for dinner. So that's that's what Christmas is bringing to us football podcasters.
Hopefully you find your tiny tim. By the way, I introduced myself as Carson Beaver and you didn't even notice it. And here's the reason I did that. I've been told that in your contact you have me down as Carson Beaver. Are you under the impression that that's my name?
No, I have you in as Carson Brev with a V, not even Beaver.
It's formed.
Yes, I am not under the impression that that's your name, but I also have no idea why that is your name in the contacts.
It's not a joke.
I think I've always been aware that your last name is Bubbles with a bee.
But exactly right.
Yeah, I just I don't know how that got in there like that.
Well, I'm kind of disappointed to hear that it wasn't actually Beaver because that fired me up. Logan, how are you buddy being chilling?
I'm also pissed at the scheduling because well, one they're making the Steelers and the I think the Ravens and the Chiefs play like three games in ten days, which I think. Yeah, I think the NFL is a greedy, greedy corporation and they just couldn't keep their hand out of the cookie jar. They just had to get in on some of that Christmas NBA money and I don't like it. We're inevitably going to get eighteen games. We're inevitably going to get an eight game play an eighteen playoff format. Excuse me, because it's gonna make the owners more money. I'm not a big fan, but uh so, Yeah, my Christmas gifts is I get to watch Patrick Mahomes spank my Steelers on Christmas Day. That's gonna be a lot of fun.
Yes, Sweet Christmas cheer fellas, Where the hell is your whimsy? Where the hell is your merriment? It's nowhere to be found. I will say, I agree. I don't like the NFL stepping on the NBA's toes with Christmas. I do think it's greedy. I do think they will continue to try to over extend themselves in every possible place to maximize revenue in the cultural currency that they hold. And that's just the way it is. I mean, there's nothing we can do to stop it, but it's too much. Honestly, it is because we got five NBA games and two NFL games, Like, I can't watch all that and also enjoy the spirit of Christmas. You know, I'm gonna have to be locked in all day, end to end, and frankly, I don't think that that's necessary, but I'm.
Gonna have I'm gonna have eight screens up and just fry all my dopamine receptors. You know.
Well, that's just every day, isn't it. That's twenty twenty four. Buddy. Let's talk about these quarterbacks, cause I think that this is going to be really interesting. Here are sort of some ground rules. We're actually gonna go thirty two to one, so we'll start from the bottom and work our way up. I am viewing this in terms of who I want in a vacuum, right, So I'm trying as much as possible to take out some of the situational factors that'll influence some of these guys satiscal production, and just think if I were starting a team from scratch, maybe presuming like replacement level guys around them, but just not knowing the specific situation. Who do I think is the best? Who would I want? Is there anything else that you guys want to add in terms of criteria. How you're viewing this list before we get into it.
Not really, I think for me, it's just about, yeah, who would I want in a back vacuum, trying to isolate guys from their situations. It's tough to isolate Sam Darnold from Justin Jefferson or you know, Justin Herbert from Quintin Johnston on the other side of the spectrum.
But I do my best.
Yeah, there are some guys that this isn't going to apply for, Like I think some guys can be spoiled goods where they're too old, or they've fallen off or something like that. I'm looking at this as who I would want most to suit up for me for a game like tomorrow under Center. But like I said, it's not apples to apples, because I think there are some guys that I think are just spoil goods that I don't really want anything to do with. So for the most part, it's how are these guys playing right now? But there are a few instances where I think long term implications will factor in a little bit for me.
Oh interesting, I'm very much viewing this in terms of how good are you right now, not factoring in like upside, what I think these guys have in terms of potential. You mentioned it's who you want for a game. I would probably say that it's a combination of who do I want for a regular season in totality, and then who would I want for a playoff game. I think that I would lean more on the side of valuing who do I trust most in that postseason environment. But I also think there are certain guys were really good regular season quarterbacks who give you a floor there, who are going to give you a baseline of winning games that is valuable. And last thing, I should say, we're ranking all of these quarterbacks as if every team had their best sky healthy. So it's not gonna be Cooper Rush for the Cowboys, It's going to be Dak Prescott. It's not going to be Mac Jones, the Great Mac Jones for the Jags. It's going to be Trevor Lawrence, etc. Etc. So with that, let's start from the bottom, fellas, Let's start in just a grimy, dark pit. Logan, do you have somebody in mind for number thirty two.
Yeah, dead last for me is Drew Lock right now, and unfortunately, Drew Lock's immaculate level of swag can't drag him any higher. I was a long time Drew Lock defender in terms of I thought that maybe there was something there. I think he's just a solid backup at this point, and he's a decent transition QB. But yeah, I mean he doesn't have any like sort of terrible baggage. But I don't think there's really anything like super special. I don't get Drew Lot doesn't instill a lot of confidence in me as Mike QB. So he's dead.
Last THEO would you agree or would you have somebody else at thirty two?
I think I would agree with that. Unfortunately, I love my boy Drew Locke and he was a victim of bad drops in Denver and was treated so poorly. Right, but not really he should be a backup, And even when he is a backup, it seems like he is the tank commander general for the Giants, throwing pick sixes and dropping the ball and handing the Falcons a bunch of points to get them the number one overall pick. So if that's your body of work. I think it's fair to put you last.
I would have him last too. Never forget people last year saying that he should be starting over Gino. What a narrative that was. The production is just horrifying from him this year, over three starts, he's completing under fifty three percent of his passes. He's got a passer rating under fifty six. He's got one touchdown to four picks. I don't think that there's anything he does at an average level other than maybe just arm talent. But I think in terms of decision making, pocket presence, like he is just a completely unreliable quarterback, obviously in a bad situation. But even for that bad situation, he's looked really bad. So I would have him dead last thirty one. Logan, we'll just keep you leading off, We'll keep going in the same rotation. Who would you have next?
I went to bad for this guy for a long time. I have Mason Rudolph at thirty one, and some people might have Will Levis because they think he's better. I don't think Will Levis is better than Mason Rudolph. I've seen enough from Will Levis where I'm completely out on the guy. At this point. It has nothing really to do with the physical attributes, right, the dudes slow up. You know, he's a handsome guy, he's got a big arm, can move. But sure, I don't think Will Levis has a brain, and unfortunately I am going to hold that against him. I just think that he's brainless. And with Rudolph, like, don't get me wrong, man, there's nothing special about Mason Rudolph, but he can connect on a deep ball every once in a while. While that one he hit the Calvin Ridley the only points they had for the majority of that game was nice. Rudolph can throw a deep ball. He can be a decent spot starter for you. And I just trust him a little bit more than Drew Locke to do, you know, remedial stuff. But there's nothing really special about Mason. But the difference between them, Mason's just safer. With will Levis, I always feel like there's something catastrophic creeping around the corner where he's about to have something disastrous happen. And you know, cost you a football game.
Bill, Who do you have here?
I'll go with DeShawn Watson probably should be.
Do you think he's the best. I don't even have him on my list. Do you think he's the best Browns QB?
I mean, he's the starting Browns QB. So I put him on as their guy, and.
He is.
I mean, it's a valid question. Is he better than Dorria Thompson Robinson? Is he better than Jamis Winston. I mean, those guys are very stinky, but they might still be better options for Cleveland.
And then Deshaun Watson.
I mean, it was just a question of does this offense get like historically bad, does it get like worst of all time level bad? That was the question when he was the starter. He takes sacks at a extreme level, like you're lucky If he takes like four in a game, that's atrocious. His release has gotten slower and slower.
Over the years. He doesn't read the field, he just is.
I don't know what he practices, honestly, like i'd I don't want to know how he spends his time, but I know that it's not on the playbook or on like mechanics or anything like that, because it's clear that they just get worse and worse every year.
So this is tricky what we do with the Browns because I think that Jamis is the best quarterback in that room. But I also think that the Browns intend to start Deshaun Watson when he's healthy, So I think I'm going to include DeShawn. If Jamis were on this list, I would have him at twenty eight. I actually did map that out. I would have him a few spots higher. I think I have Deshaun at number thirty one as well, though, I mean, he's just completely destructive to an offense. Outside of still being like a pretty good athlete, there's nothing of value he brings. And even with that athleticism, like it doesn't keep him from having this monstrous sack rate thirteen and a half percent, Like one to every seven eight dropbacks, Deshaun Watson is taking a sack that's unbelievable. Jamis obviously is playing with the same offensive line in front of him, and he's more than halved that sack rate, and then the accuracy is just horrible, the decision making, the processing Like he's truly become an awful quarterback. And I thought that he was a disaster this entire season when he was healthy. So I'll have him thirty one. I'll have Mason Rudolph at thirty I don't think there's a lot good to say about Mason. He's big, he's kind of sneaky, good at avoiding sacks actually, but he still makes a lot of mistakes for being a guy that you sort of think of as being more of a safe quarterback. I mean, he's got eight picks and just a few starts this year, He's thrown as many picks as touchdowns. There's really not much to like with Rudolph at all. But he's not as cancerous to an offense as this version of Deshaun Watson in my opinion.
Yeah, I wouldn't have DeShawn on my list whatsoever. And I mean it has to do with the on field stuff as well, but I do factor like leadership in there, and I think Deshaun's like probably the worst leader at the quarterback spot, like along with all the myriad of you know, on the field stuff that he's just horrible at football. Now, I just I don't want anything to do with the guy.
So you're just going with who you think is best. Logan You're I think jamis that team views as the starter. I agree, j Yeah, I think James. I think the Browns view to Shawn as the start, I agree, And if Jamis is their third quarterback right now, they're starting dtr over him.
Unfortunately, I think next year the Browns will probably luwell themselves into starting DeShawn again next year, even though that is the completely wrong answer. And what I ultimately I think this is probably gonna lead them to losing Miles Garrett on a bigger scale. Unfortunately. I think it's gonna be the ripple effects from that. It's probably the worst deal of all time.
So who do you have in the just number thirty spot? Logan?
So I do have a guy that I've gone to bat for for a long time. I have Gardner Minshew at thirty.
I think he got your quirked up white boys.
Then I do I like Drew lock swag. I like Gardner Minshew swag. He fires me up a little bit, like I can imagine, I don't know Gardner Minschew would just fire me up if I saw him. And yeah, he brings a certain bit of fire to the table. It's kind of like Jamis. I have these guys right beside one another. I have Gardner and Minshew. I have Minshew at thirty, Winston at twenty nine, and these guys are both guys that I feel like, on given games can throw a really strong punch. They can have really good games for you. Jamis a little more so than Gardner. I actually think Jamis can have outstanding games. The one against Baltimore this year amazing, the one against Pittsburgh this year. Jamis made all the clutch plays in big third and four down situations. That being said, they can also completely throw you out of a game. We know that reality with Minshew in Winston both. Minshew's really bad at protecting the football in the pocket. He's always struggled with fumbles and sacks in Winston. Same deal Winston. It's more would just I'm gonna just let this thing fly and throw a pick. So these are big swing guys to me. They can win you games, but they can also throw you out of them, and normally it's worse than it is good. So that's why they're here for me.
Ye who would you have at thirty?
I'll probably go with.
I had Levis written down, but it doesn't really matter him or Rudolph. I mean, Rudolph is definitely a safer option. That guy is just a turret right, big dude in the pocket. Like kind of lumbering around and he can step up and stuff like that, but doesn't really have the big arm or anything like that. And then there's Levis, who's I think started more games for them this year. Has some nice moments, certainly, but just too many mistakes. And he had won in the most recent game that he started. That just killed any remaining enthusiasm that I had about him. But just because he's started more and I didn't really know who to pick between the two of them, I'll go at Levis nos Fair.
THEO has the representative from the Tennessee delegation no matter what, who honestly I think either way probably belongs in this spot. I don't even know who I prefer. I guess I slightly prefer Rudolph between the two, but Lewis does have more ability. He also is like the most backbreakingly stupid quarterback in football. Just makes truly catastrophic mistakes that I don't think anybody else can even compare to. So I'm gonna go with Logan's boy Gardner at number twenty nine because I have Mason in my number thirty spot. I think that Gardner has more juice than a Mason Rudolph or a Drew Locke. I think that he's capable of higher highs, but he is a turnover machine. Fourteen turnovers in ten games this year. Really bad. But again there's some positive stuff with him, right, he can move, he's actually pretty accurate, and so I prefer him. And this is honestly probably the worst season that he's had, but he's very clearly in his bottom tier no matter what.
Oh yeah, I mean, he's one of those guys that if you wanted to be a game manager, like in Indianapolis, he can win you eight games, but he's not going to elevate you beyond anything else.
Okay, Logan, who do you have next?
Well, then so I have Jamis here at twenty nine, and hies with Jamis are very good. And I like Jamis as a leader. I the guy can talk his ass off, right, he'd be a great preacher or a great pastor.
Like.
I love listening to Jamis. I love all the sound bites and if I was in a locker room, he would get me fired up. I would go into battle for Jameis Winston. That being said, he's got the thirty thirty season. Man, it's Jamis Is like the embodiment of the Yin Yang symbol, the black and white.
It's like inside you, there are two wolves type bing.
It picks six and that's James. It's Jameis Winston in a nutshell, he is a flip of a coin. Every game, every play, every snap.
THEO who's next for you?
Uh, let me get Desmond Ridder?
WHOA you're riding the Ridder bus spot.
I might as well go down with the ship.
I've done it enough and he's he's got enough of a case as the Raiders starter or sort of starter for at least one game this season. I do believe he might be their best quarterback, which the bar is in hell there. I kind of liked what I saw out of him in the Raiders game, or in the rap in the not the Raiders game, in the Falcons game, in the Revenge game, he hit some hole shots. He used his legs to convert on third down, and like, that's why I had a second round grade on him as a prospect.
Man.
Yeah, it's a hell of a quarterback room they've got. Can we all agree that AOC is the worst? I think he's just terrible.
Yeah, I don't know. It's a.
It's a dog fight on who's the best and who's the worst. But I think I would put AOC at the bottom. He's a He is again a total statue, not a not a ton of arm talent.
Just doesn't make great reads. I got. At least with Ritter, you can like run him on fourth and three and pick it up.
Right right, All right, we're moving out of the bottom five, but we're not there just yet. Logan, who do you have at twenty eight?
Twenty eight? Is my nemesis Derek Carr. I have him here. You know, it's only because it's really because of two things. I think Derek Carr can really operate a play action system well. And when the running game's going, you can hit on these shot plays. We saw it early in the year with him in Shaheed. Derek Carr just sucks in the red zone. He's never been a guy that can put the ball in the end zone. And that's my problem with him is, yeah, sure he can give me forty yards on a drive, we're gonna get a field goal. I don't want field goals. I want points. And Derek Carr is turnover prone and he can't get it done in the red zone. I just think he's mediocre. He is like the embodiment of a quarterback for a seven and nine or an eight and eight team. Now in today's NFL, you know eight and nine or seven and ten, vice versa. But there's just nothing that wows me about Derek. And he's not going to lead you to wins when you need Derek Carr, he's going to crumble.
L I've got bow nicks, my god, which is pretty low. But really, when you stack up all the quarterbacks, I just don't know how he couldn't fall in this range. He doesn't have a lot that's positive about his game right now, outside of just kind of quickness, i'd say, and he can kind of dart forward and pick up first downs, you can roll him out. He's somewhat accurate on the move as well, so like there's kind of an element of like shiftiness to his game and speed and scrambling. But as a thrower, I just I don't think there's a ton to like, maybe again quickness of release, something like the aesthetic value of him throwing it, but his arm talent is really low level. And when it comes to him testing downfield, and you saw it on that double move in the Chargers game that was just an absolute balloon that touched the ceiling and died short. Against the Colts, he tried to test tight coverage a couple of times, and pretty much every single time it was picked off. I mean, he did have some touchdowns downfield in that game, but they were designer plays against Cover three that were just kind of wide open that I don't think took a lot of ability to hit. In other games, like the Ravens game, for example, the footwork kind of killed him, like coming into a full run in the pocket and losing accuracy due to that. I know he doesn't take a ton of sacks, but I do think that's just because Peyton moves the pocket so much for him, where it's like he can always just kind of throw the ball away because he's booting out or something like that, more than like his pocket presence just being unreal. I mean the Chiefs game, he took two sacks that were like twenty yards by the line of scrimmage because he ran straight backwards. Just there hasn't been a lot of consistent good from him over the course of this year, and he doesn't have crazy tools as a as a thrower. I mean, he's got some nice things, so I think he's been inconsistent. He hasn't showed me a lot of super high end throws. I know that the ninety something yard touchdown to Marvin Mims was nice. He had a nice inbreaker versus Atlanta that was cool. But like you can count the throws that really get me excited about bo Nix the season on just about a maybe two hands.
Sure, Yeah, I have been a little bit conflicted with where exactly I want to put bow. I have him somewhere in this twenty six to twenty eight range. And I'll tell you guys, the two other quarterbacks who I have who I'm considering where exactly I want to place them. It's Anthony Richardson and it's Bryce Young. I think the thing that's difficult with ar is I am way higher on him long term than I am on BO. And I think when you talk about wow moments right well, BO is lacking Anthony Richardson had in abundance. I mean, he's made some of the best plays we've seen this season, and he's made some of the worst plays that we've seen this season. And I do think that some of his value to an offense goes underappreciated by some of these conventional metrics, Like obviously everybody's fixated on his completion percentage, which is horrible, and he is a terribly inaccurate quarterback right now, He's easily the most inaccurate starter in football. He also averages the most yards per completion right and when it comes to hitting on those big shot plays, he's been one of the better guys that we've seen it. He's obviously one of the most effective rushing quarterbacks. So I'm very much conflicted between the highs that you get from Anthony Richardson and I don't think you get highs with Bo at all individually. But I do think that Bo can functionally run an NFL offense right now. He can execute a system, and ar really can't do that week to week. I mean, he has his impressive drives in his impressive games, but then the next drive of the next game, he's just as liable to go out there and miss a guy by ten yards on an intermediate throw that leads to a pick. He's got fifteen turnovers this year to fourteen total touchdowns. And then Bryce, I think has been more impressive than Bo as of late, but it is pretty marginal. I think that Bryce has made more throws and has probably had more moments that legitimately impress me. I think that we've seen him do a little bit more as a scrambler recently than we saw previously. Like this past week, right he had sixty eight yards on the ground. I think that he's shown some really nice ball placement, especially this past week he had a beautiful ball to David Moore along the left sideline for that touchdown, just a really nicely placed moon ball. BO does have more physical tools, though, I mean, I think that arm strength for both of them is a big issue. But Bo is at least bigger and like Bryce, as fun as it is, as much as we're all loving it. Like you look at his production since he came back as the starter, and if we just look at that time the last eight weeks, he's two hundred and six yards per game, ten touchdowns, six picks, eighty three passer rating. Obviously, the weapons are bad, but the run game really good. The line is very solid. I'm struggling here. I think I'm gonna go Bo at number twenty eight. I think he does the least at a high level of any of these guys. And just to add some more context to that, THEO. I thought you did a really nice job of breaking down some of his limitations. But I know there are people who are really really high on BO. I just think he's in such a favorable situation in a lot of ways that don't get discussed enough because people look at the weapons, and obviously the weapons don't jump out at you. Courtland Suton's really good. But outside of that, it's a group of relatively unknown guys. But I do think Sean Payton is such a great play caller, especially at covering up for some of Bo's limitations. I think the offensive line in front of him. I mean you mentioned his low sack rate. To me, that is hugely an offensive line thing, right. He doesn't get pressured very much. I don't think that Bo deals with pressure well. His arm talent is bad. He's not accurate, Like this is the incredible thing. Out of thirty four qualified quarterbacks, BO Knicks this year ranks thirty first in completed area arts per completion. I read off all these stats just a couple shows ago. So bear with me for a second. But he's also twenty ninth in on target throw percentage. So to me, having that combination of being that conservative, of having that many throws that are deliberately behind the line of scrimmage. Right, He's hit on some big shot plays, but his depth of target on average is quite shorter, at least on completions. I should say, when he throws the ball downfield, it tends to be a very risky thing. And then to also struggle that much with accuracy, like that's a really bad indicator. And he's thirtieth in passing yards per attempt overall. So I do think he's better than the quarterback that he was early in this year. I mean, certainly, right, he really really struggled over those first few weeks. But I also think that Bryce is significantly better. I think that ar It is more of a week to week thing, but I think that I prefer his ceiling. It's really close. I'm gonna go bow at twenty eight.
Though, Yeah, this flows nicely. I have bow at twenty seven. And the thing that's been most puzzling about Bo is just how undisciplined he's been. Like, you know, you figured when you draft this guy, right, that he's the most experienced college player ever. He's started more games at quarterback in college than any player. I think it's been broken since by Dylan Gabriel. But you know Bo was started more games than anybody in college football history, and so you expect this guy's can be pro ready, can step right in here, run a system. And you know THEO you talked about the sacks where he's taking twenty yard sacks, I can count, probably I might need three hands to count the amount of sacks where Bo is just falling down in the pocket and taking sacks like where a pressures bearing down on him. The footwark doesn't get me because again you expect with a guy with this much game experience that he would be sound mechanically, and so while he's inconsistent at like borderline stuff, he also doesn't bring you any of the wow factor like you're talking about with an Anthony Richardson. And that is why Bo is down here for me. And I also I don't love him under pressure. I like Bryce Young considerably more under pressure when he's dealing with guys getting in his face. And again that's been more of a trend over the last couple of weeks. But I buy into that way more than I do with Bo. I think Bo can get better, And that's what I think a lot of people, because Carson you always talk about it. You think he's at his ceiling. I think Bo can get to a level where he's a below average starter in this league and like solid. But again, when you're so limited by you can't He's never gonna be a great deep ball thrower where he's hitting on these massive shot plays. He's never gonna be a threat as a runner like an Anthony Richardson. And so that's where I'm at with Bo. He's gonna have to get good at the regular stuff to be a solid quarterback, and he's never gonna bring you any of that crazy wow stuff. So I've got Bo at twenty seven. I think it's the right spot for him.
I do want to be clear, I don't think that Bo is at his ceiling. I just think he is quite close to his ceiling for a rookie. I think he's about as close to one ceiling as is possible because of the lack of high end physical traits, right. I mean, he's a decent mover, but the arm talent is very limiting overall. Right, He's an unremarkable athlete at the quarterback position, and he's almost twenty five years and I do think that the situation that he's been put in has been underrated by a lot of people in terms of how crucial it is to his success. So THEO who would you have one spot above Bow?
I'd probably put Anthony Richardson. It's close between the two of them, and the game that they played against each other kind of decided this for me. I will put Anthony richards in one spot above him. The accuracy is debilitating. I mean, on straight shopback throws, he's like a solid fifteen percent lower completing passes or just being accurate than the next worst guy. He's a total outlier in terms of how much he misses. But just watching that Broncos versus Colts game, you can it's easy to see the flashes with Richardson, and it's easy to see how comfortable he is in an NFL pocket.
It's it's still the.
Thing that charms me with him, and it's the thing that's always charmed me with him, is the walls can really be closing in on him and it just doesn't really phase him at all. He'll step into the smallest crease, He'll stiff arm somebody and like jump backwards and throw. He just doesn't really care about the defensive rushers around him because he's bigger, stronger, faster than all of them, and he can make them miss in just ridiculous ways. He can buck them off of his back, he can you know, outrun them, he can out physical them. He's he's crazy good at it. And in that Broncos game, there were many times where I thought he maneuvered pressure and he threw into the teeth of the defense and he made a great play in structure. I think you need some of these physical tools to be a great instructure player as well as a great out of structure player. And I think that's the thing that always confuses some people, Like when I don't like Tua or I don't like Purty, or I don't like you know whoever knicks, and people get on me like, well, you just get fall in love with the physical tools and.
The out of structure stuff.
It's like I fall in love with the physical tools and the instructure stuff. I mean, you need a certain baseline of athleticism to be really really good in structure as well. As out of structure, and I think I've seen that with Richardson, and I think he can be a good case study of that, where it's like, even though he's so inaccurate, even though he's really struggled to be, you know, even a just a starter in general in the league, right now, his athleticism opens up so much. He can hold people in the running game, he can step up into crowded pockets, he can push the ball downfield. There's a lot that he can do that still intrigues me, and I do think. I mean, he's still super young. He still hasn't started. Maybe just now he has, but he's barely started. If he has a full season's worth of game, being fully out on Richardson or being fully out on or being fully out on Richardson would be like being fully out on Caleb Williams or Bone Knicks or you know, Drake May. I'm sure doesn't have that great of stats. Haven't checked in a while. I just think that there's a lot of time left in his career.
Yeah, I totally agree. I think that that's been the crazy thing about how everybody's discussed Anthony Richardson, like you take the youngest guy in the draft who I mean still this season has been the youngest starting quarterback, with the least experience, with the most insane physical tools, but also obviously being the most raw. And you expect that guy to be a good consistent quarterback in year two when he only started four games and year one, Like, to me, that's just always been crazy. And people early in the year were again hyper fixated on the completion percentage and they were saying, you can't run a functional NFL offense with this guy. We got to go to Flacco. But like you look at the numbers and the offense was equally successful with either quarterback out there. And then obviously Flacco was actually really bad when he came back as the starter. But like, I think people underestimate the impact that he does have in the run game and how pivotal he is to Indianapolis being one of the elite rushing attacks in football that people can underrate how great he is at evating pressure and avoiding sacks. I'm still gonna have him in my twenty seventh spot, and I'm gonna put Bryce at twenty six. Those guys are really close for me. But I do think that Bryce has just shown an ability to construct drives with a consistency that Anthony Richardson hasn't. And even though I think that the ceiling with Anthony Richardson is monumentally higher, Like this list for me is just about who do I think is better right now? And I think Bryce has shown enough of that high level processing of making those more big time throws into some tighter windows than we've seen from a bow for example, if you're comparing dudes who obviously don't have Richardson's physical tools, So I'm gonna give Bryce that edge. Logan, Who's up next for you?
Yeah, I've got Bryce in the spot. I actually have Richardson a few spots higher. And maybe this is a logical fallacy or just because my criteria might be a little different, I am looking a little bit ahead with some of these guys, and like, I just so much prefer Anthony Richardson's physical profile to a Bryce, So like it may be close between them for like a game or something like that, but I'm so in on Richardson being great down the line that I do have him higher on this list. So Bryce is up next for me. I really like what we've seen over the past few weeks and he just looks We talked about it last night, but he's way more calm, he's way more collected. He's dealing with pressure so much better. He's getting out of the pocket and making plays with his legs. Like Bryce is in control. And that's the biggest thing to me, from the biggest difference from the start of the year. Bryce was out of control. He was not confident in himself. He was crumbling every snap. And this guy looks like he can run an NFL offense to a decent level. I think Bryce can be an average to a below average starter in the league. I think you can win games with the guy. And I like his processing, I like his feel I like what we've seen in this recent stretch. But kind of similar to bo Nicks, I think Bryce is limited by his physicals a little bit, and that's what keeps from from really being higher on this list.
So Logan, you have Bryce at twenty six. I have Bryce at twenty six. By the way, I totally agree, Like you can't really overstate the physical tool thing obviously, Like this was a guy who early in the year we saw have to like get up on his tibby toes to try to see over his own line and get a ball out. Obviously, we've never seen a quarterback this small, who's this physically limited go number one overall, and I think that that does still put a pretty hard ceiling on Bryce unfortunately. But I mean he's overcome mental stuff that was also giving him trouble early in the year. So THEO are you in that same club? Who do you have in your twenty six spot?
I realize I got to put a Falcons QB here somewhere, and I guess it's Pannix.
I'll put him here.
I mean, we've seen one start, so it's really tough to talk about him. But I did like what I saw. He looked like a vet to me. He just looked very much like I forgot I was watching a rookie in terms of what he is good at and maybe what he's not not so good at as well. Like everything with him was so detailed in structure, I think, in terms of like getting through his reads, climbing the pocket, like keeping a wide base, throwing away from defenders, leverages downfield, and protecting his wide receivers.
I thought all of that was really.
Nuanced and detailed and good with him, but obviously he's not going to be like the great you know, bail out, make somebody miss, like throw and maybe that's what you expect, like a splash play from a rookie to be. He didn't deliver those, but he did deliver like kind of nuanced, veteran pocket presence vibes. So I liked that from him. I liked what I saw early. We'll see how it goes going forward. He still has one of the world's ugliest throwing motions, fucking leaning like he does. I don't like that he like sometimes can like lean his torso and like look like a c when he throws, on top of the fact that he's lefty, on top of the fact he's throwing its side arm. I'm like, what am I even looking at here? I can see it maybe causing some accuracy issues that are more severe than it looked versus the Giants. But I thought he looked solid, and I think he's a better player than Kirk Cousins, so I'll put him on this list here and keep Cousins off of it.
I actually have Panics a couple spots higher, and he's the toughest guy to rank right, because we've only seen the one start. But we talked about his debut yesterday and I felt like I was a little too low on it. I said that it was basically average, unremarkable, But I don't know that I gave enough credit for like how impressive it is in some ways to as a rookie have your debut be unremarkable, if that makes sense, Like I think it's what you laid out their theel like just how comfortable he looked. There were no chaotic plays with him running that offense. I thought that how he dealt with pressure was impressive. I thought that he was accurate. I thought that his timing was good. I thought that he took what the defense gave him, Like he was just really exceptionally composed for being a rookie. Now, obviously he's a twenty four year old rookie, right, He's got tons of college experience just like BO does. So it's another thing where I think some people are being very exuberant about his ceiling based on the debut, and I don't think that I would go there because of some of the physical tools and age stuff that doesn't bode as well for like big time growth. But right now, I'll just say it, I have a one spot above Caleb Williams, who's in my twenty five spot, which again it's tough to say based on the one game, but as high as I am on Caleb, and I think he's going to be one of the elite quarterbacks in this league, there's just so much more room for growth. But I think there's also some areas in which Pennix is already very polished that Caleb is not at all like. I think Caleb's accuracy, to me, has probably been the biggest challenge that I didn't fully anticipate because we've heard all this stuff pre draft about all, well, let's see how he deals with NFL time to throw. Right, He's not gonna be the best athlete on the field anymore. He can't go around and do all this Houdini magician stuff and like to some extent, that has been an issue for him. He has held onto the ball a litt along. He has missed some opportunities that you'd like him to take. But I think some people have maybe overstated it, Like his average time to throw is two point nine seconds. It varies game to game, but that's been an issue not the biggest one though to me, the biggest one is probably he's thirtieth in on target throw percentage and there's just been some opportunities downfield. I mean, there's been some opportunities on some short intermediate throws where like he's just missing guys, and I do trust Pennix's accuracy more. I also think the Bears have been disastrous on third down. I think that Caleb has some responsibility in that. But of course the situation hasn't been good with that offensive line, with the play calling, which I guess has gotten better under Thomas Brown compared to Shane Waldron, but like that offense has still really been struggling. But he has also cut down on the stuff, right, I mean, he's basically stopped throwing picks. He's got nineteen touchdowns to five picks on the year. I think that that's impressive from him. He's not making those backbreaking mistakes at all. But he's also not doing as much positive stuff as maybe I would have expected like to see and really as this offense would need from him. So I'm gonna be somebody who fundamentally believes in Caleb and defends him when people try to say, oh, this guy sucks. This guy's such a massive disappointment. And I do think obviously like he has the potential to make really special plays out of structure. That's something that I'm banking on him being a lead at long term, and we've seen him make some real big plays with his legs. But like, consistency has been a really big issue for him this year, and although we've only seen one start, I definitely think Pennix is going to be more consistent. So Caleb's probably the dude who I expect to take the single biggest leap from where I have him today to where I have him in two years. But right now I have him at twenty five.
Yeah, I didn't know how The young quarterbacks are the toughest rank. So after this next guy, I have like just a crop of young qbs basically that I have in here that are we don't really know what they're gonna look like his finished products. I have Caleb way higher just because I do believe in him. I have Pennis higher as well, just one spot. I do like what we saw from Penix in his debut. I thought he was the most pro ready guy in the draft, and I think you see some of that on display, the accuracy throwing in between zones, Like he really did look really poised for a rookie. I'm not the highest on his ceiling. I think long term, you're looking at a guy who could be like a slightly better Tua, and I think that's a good quarterback. I think that is a really good quarterback. But I'm not the highest on his ceiling. I got a feeling you guys are really gonna push back against this, especially you probably THEO at number twenty five. I have Aaron Rodgers just because I want nothing to do with the guy. I think he's a bad leader. I think his arm is shot relatively, I don't think the guy can move anymore, and I would really be surprised if he plays football pass this year. So it's not really fully the inability thing. There is a little bit of projection involved with this. But like I just I don't want Aaron Rodgers. It's really as simple as that. Like I have him firmly in this Derek Car tire. I don't want you under center for me anymore.
Just get out. I don't blame you for that. I mean, he's been a terrible leader. I feel like, and he's pushed a lot of young players away, and just in general, the way he conducts himself is just messy for team buildings. So I understand just being like, you're not good enough to invite this circus, But I do think in a vacuum he ranks higher for me, Yeah, I agree.
I think compared to like these dudes we're talking about, right, like Caleb, just some of the things that Caleb does, they can really hurt an offense as much as he has the tools to help an offense with the special stuff that you expect him to be more consistent with down the line, like the accuracy holding onto the ball, like the sack rate, right, I mean, he's got a bad line in front of him. But also I think Caleb needs to do a better job of not taking as many sacks as he has. It's been a disappointing year from Rodgers, and he actually hasn't been super accurate. I feel like that's been the biggest surprise for me, is just him missing throws, because obviously you don't expect him to do much out of structure in terms of mobility, but the fact that he has missed some throws to me has been uncharacteristic of the Rogers that we've seen before, but I still have him a few spots higher than this. I mean, the physical limitations are obvious, but he can still spin that thing decently well, and he still thinks the game at a pretty damn high level. So, like, I understand what you're saying about the locker room aspect, but if we're just looking right now, like I need somebody to go out there and win me a game. Caleb versus Aaron Rodgers, like I'm taking Aaron Rodgers. Pennix versus Aaron Rodgers, I'm taking Aaron Rodgers. I also think you're crazy low on Derek Carr. I know that you hate Derek.
Arrick Carr sucks. Derek Carr can He's.
Not good Derrick, sorry, not good. But here Carse than Anthony Richardson, Bryce Young bo. I mean, I mean, guys, I just trying to win a game today.
Yeah, I don't want Derek Carr. He's gonna lose you the game. Derek Carr injures himself, like, dude, that was the funniest concussion. I hate laughing at people like this.
Dude is gonna laugh in his brain trauma.
Now, I've never seen a guy try to hurdle on the sideline and then he doesn't put his hands out to stop his fall. He's just like, you know what, I'm gonna just let the front of my head take this.
He's protecting his hands.
He broke his hands.
Yeah, actually, yeah, it's a great point. He still did on that play.
I broke his wrist.
I just think, I know what, I know what. Derek Carr is gonna at the game's it's gonna be thirteen to seventeen. His defense kept him in the game the whole way. There's a three minutes on the clock. I need a game winning drive. He's gonna march me down to the fifty and then he's gonna throw a pick or he's gonna throw three straight. In completions, Derek Carr sucks, man, Like I I wish he didn't. He just sucks.
I don't think you wish he didn't at all. I think rilled that he sucks. Look, man, I'm not gonna sit here and defend Derek Carr, but I do have him at number twenty three like he is at the end of the day a vet. He is a really good play action quarterback. He does throw a pretty accurate ball.
Is it close to you between Kirk and Derek Carr? Yeah, it's close, because Kirk too, I have like.
Carr and Penix. I'm out on all these dudes, but I think you're doing more projecting than I am. Like, of course, I think Anthony Richardson is gonna be better than Derek Carr. I think Caleb Williams is gonna be a million times better than Derek Carr. Do I think they're better than him right now? No? Like Derek Carr can run a pretty solid NFL offense. I think his passer rating this year is still over one hundred, right, I mean he's fifteen touchdowns five picks, Like he can be efficient as a pass of course, he's totally limited out of structure. He's totally not somebody you want to carry your offense. His arm talent is just fine. He's gonna throw some hospital balls like all this can be true, and he can still be way more dependable than these literal rookies and second year guys. I think I think a little bit of your Derek car bias is showing here.
What do you think theo I can't believe you're disrespecting PFF's sixth rated passer like this.
He's that's true.
Whyan Wow, No, I'm not lying.
I mean I don't really have any love for Derek Carr and watching him play at his footwork at this stage of his career is still like hilariously bad for like how successful of a career that he's had. He's never won anything important. He doesn't score touchdowns in the red zone like you're saying. But I've seen enough like pretty posts to like Rashid Shaheed. Then I'm like, Okay, he's probably like twenty something, I don't know, but he's he's not I would not want him as my quarterback whatsoever. So I'm not really gonna come to his defense too much.
No understandable. I don't think there's a lot of Derek Carr defenders out there at this point, but somebody has to stand up against the d number tight and I'm to do it. So we're kind of bouncing around a little bit here, but THEO, let's get back to your list. Who is the next quarterback for you? We just had Panix for you right at twenty six.
Yeah, so next I've got Caleb who has been I feel like wildly different quarterbacks, just kind of weak to week here. I mean, the accuracy has kind of been or the lack thereof has kind of been the common thread throughout this year. But I feel like sometimes he's made a really conscious decision to like stay on his spot and just like throw quick at m over and over again, and then like some games he's really scrambling too much. But I just don't think he's really put a game together from the first quarter to through the fourth that's like good in a while. Maybe he did it versus like Carolina. They played the Panthers at one point that was a pretty good game for him, But just in general, he's been very you know, inconsistent with his decision. He's held the ball for probably way too long. He is trying to create, and I think he's looked good like making people miss and like running around. Like there's been some like usc moments from him this year where it's like, man, he just ran around and made the entire backfield miss. But then is he delivering a good throw after that, Like, No, that's not happening this year. So in general, I think he's struggled to play with any kind of pace or rhythm, or like he hasn't built momentum or like stacked good games at any point this year doesn't mean they're not coming. I wish his center wouldn't get like steamrolled comically every single game. I wish his wide receivers didn't straight up quit on him in the middle of the year like it. I wish it wasn't Keenan Allen running like deep overs versus man coverage for like a lot of this year, or him like throwing screens to DJ Moore with no blockers in front of him. There's been like a whole laundry list of issues. But at the same time, I don't think Caleb in e VAC he misplayed that great, so agreed.
I think there's been a lot working against him. But he's definitely still had some self inflicted issues, and the consistency really has been what's missing. Right, I mean even half to half, you'll see.
Like, yeah, like those Lions game from Thanksgiving, right, the first half, yeah, like nothing could go their way. He had plenty of bad moments, and then the second half you're like, holy cat, look at all these great throws.
He's made.
Some magician plays like he's shifting around in structure. It's beautiful, but in the same game, it's like, how do you miss this?
Read? Like, how do you keep that sack?
The one thing I will give him credit for is even though he's not winning these games, Like, I do think the guy's been clutched, and I do think that in big moments, he's maintained his composure and his calm. Like you think about the Lions game leading the back in that when you think about, well, obviously the way that that one ended was insane, but I think that was on both eber Flus. But like in totality and second half against the Vikings, now, the overtime possession of that game, he takes a bad sack that you didn't want him to, but before that he was really nails in that second half. It's just again consistency, Like there are so many games where you look up and you're in the third quarter and the Bears have three points in seventy six yards and you're like, what the hell? And it's like the situation can be bad, but also Caleb isn't overcoming it as much as I would have hoped coming into this year. It's the most wonderful time of the year for getting in on all the hoops, football, and hockey action at DraftKings Sportsbook in the season of giving, we're being gifted college football and basketball, Pro football and basketball and pro hockey too. Almost twenty four to seven.
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So I feel like I've jumped ahead a little with my list. I had Caleb twenty five, Pennis twenty four, Car twenty three. Logan, who's next on your list? In what spot?
So I've got Penix at twenty four. I already gave my spiel on him, only I still have Caleb a few spots higher. And just to be clear about this portion of my list, it is just the young quarterback portion and guys that I would want the most. There are some young quarterbacks that are already higher than in this group, because I would trust them to start a game for me. Right now. The only thing I want to add on Caleb. You know how the bon Nick's narrative got twisted when the Broncos started rattling off wins. I really do wonder if we would be looking at Caleb through a different scope if some of those results had ended differently. Right, if Tyreek Stevenson doesn't lose his marbles on the final game against the Commanders, Right, if they eke out that game against green Bay, right because they were in that one. If they win the one basically under division gauntlet, you know, over the past weeks, if they could have won that game against Green Bay, Minnesota and Detroit, Like, I don't want to just gift him victories, but Caleb put them in position to win those games and probably should have came away with a few more dubs. I agree with you, though I think the accuracy is concerning. But I'm such a strong believer and I think I speak for alls. I think Caleb's gonna figure it out. I think he's gonna be great, and all the things that you guys listed off. I think Caleb might be the hardest quarterback to rank on this list, just because of how much of a dumpster fire the Bears are. Like, the Bears are so comically bad at tending the young quarterbacks and setting them up for success, Like Mitch Trubisky was never gonna be good because he always sucked. But justin fields, right, I think they could have figured it out if they had set him up for success. Caleb, I still feel the same way that they're failing him more than like. Caleb's not been good. I will be clear about that. He has not looked great end to end. He's had really high highs. He's also had really low lows. But I also don't think the Bears are optimizing or setting him up for success. So that's what I think makes it hard to rank Caleb. But I've got Caleb a few spots higher. I've got Panics at twenty four, and then I've got some other young qbs above him.
Okay, THEO who's in that twenty four spot for you?
So next I've got I think it's Car Yeah, ok, that's Car very fair, and then one spot higher.
And then I've got and I.
Am deciding here at the last second, I'm gonna say, I'm just gonna stick with it what I wrote down. I have Baker after that. Oh, I think that Baker Mayfield is bad. I do not like him as a franchise quarterback at all. Even with the season that he's having.
Wow, make your case, and Logan is just probably gonna be Logan for the rest of the show.
I'm sorry, but I hate what watching Baker Mayfield play.
I will be up front about this.
The jitteriness of his feet and just the way he goes about like playing the quarterback position, the random like straight up spin moves that I'll see him hit on nobody this year. I just do not like it. He has been one of the worst quarterbacks pushing the ball past ten yards. I think that he has gotten his career resuscitated by Canalis and by now Liam Cohen and a group of and a really good run game this year, and like some good weapons. But I just cannot find myself respecting theo Baker's game. I just I don't like the mechanics. I don't like him pushing the ball. I don't like the decision making. I don't think he's that different than like a Derek Carr or the.
I love you as a human being, I love you and your football acumen. I think this is your worst take of all. I think you're just wrong, don't I mean? The thing is I mean Baker last year was basically the Bucks entire offense. They couldn't run the ball between the tackles. It was him leading the charge every game to Evans and Godwin, and I agree with you a little bit about the Bucks point. I think Canalys was brilliant, and I think you're finally seeing him and Bryce Young put it together in Carolina and really mesh well. And I'm excited for that union moving forward. I think Liam Cohen is brilliant some of the route concepts that they put together. Like I think it is an optimal situation for Baker. I think it's better than last year. It's way better than last year. You can run the ball this year with Tucker, with White, with Bucky right, whoever it is in the backfield. I think their line is improved. I think Raham Barton is an absolute stud for Tampa Bay. And I think their wide receiver corps are pretty good. You know, from Evans to Godwin, to Kate Odden to McMillan, who's been making plays. I had some other guys for a large portion of this year. Mike Evans was out, Chris Godwin missed some time too. This offense still kept humming, and it might not be pretty, but I think Baker's a playmaker, man. I think Baker elevates guys. I think he makes players on this team better. I think he is a bona fide, like just playmaker, Like he's made way more plays this year scrambling and out of structure and getting down field. I kind of just completely disagree with your point about him past ten yards in the air, Like maybe the advanced numbers say that, but he's hit on a lot of stuff downfield, and I think he's really accurate outside of just ability to I love Baker's leadership qualities. I love him as a leader of men, as a locker room presence. I mean, I guess I'll let the cat out of the bag because this will probably be our biggest discrepancy on this show. I have Baker as a top ten quarterback. Oh, I'm I think Baker is one of the best players for Tampa Bay. I think he is the biggest Maybe Mike Evans is the biggest reason this offense is great, because I think Mike Evans is one of the greatest whiteouts, probably a top twenty to twenty five wide receiver NFL history with how consistent he's been. But I think Baker is after Mike I think he's the second best player on this offense, and he's worse, I mean worse. If we're skill position, then we'll not because offensive line is hard to Like I said, ye, I've been fighting the penn A Sool MVP case, the come on.
That's true, has been pushing some crazy cases.
But I think Baker's legitimately great and I would not hesitate to have him as is my front man. Don't get me wrong. There's been some duds. There's been some stinkers. Uh. This recent game was disappointing. That's one of the worst games. And even then, I mean Baker was making plays to keep them competitive. But the game against Detroit was disappointing. Even though they win that game, they couldn't move the ball a whole lot. I don't know, man, I really believe in Baker and uh, I think he's one of the ten best qbs in football.
Wow, I just can't get there at all. I think his I think his pocket, just the way he looks an act I get a pocket gives nervousness and when he gets like battered at all, I just have no idea like that.
And he's throwing a lot of picks because of it.
This year, he's kind of done a lot of good stuff in those crazy moments. Like I don't disagree that it's like manic, But also I think Baker as an athlete is underrated, and I think he's gotten better as an athlete, or at least has become more effective using his athleticism. Like we've never seen him scramble like this. I don't think we've ever seen him this effective in terms of negating pressure. I mean, like there's some crazy moments you think of obviously, like the ridiculous stiff arming Bosa for five seconds and then getting that throw off, But like even yeah, somehow he's fighting off a sack for four seconds and keeps his forward progress, keeps his legs moving, and then gets that ball out to Rashad White. Like obviously, Baker makes mistakes. Baker is going to give you some turnovers. He's throwing fifteen picks on the year, but also he's leading out a top five offense. He's also got thirty four touchdowns. He's towards the top of the league in passing yards, he's towards the top of the league and passer rating, And I do think has a really good arm and I definitely think the situation around him has improved significantly offensively because the run game has gotten so much better, and I think the line in front of him is pretty good. But I also think that Logan made a really good point, like there were a couple games where he didn't have a healthy, established wide receiver. Right Evans was down, Godwin was down, and he was still slinging that shit. And I think is towards the top of the league in terms of explosive passes. I think like his average air yards per completion is low, but I do still think he's hit on some of those big chunk plays this season. And the Bucks offense has just been grivationally across the board. I mean, they've been great on third down, they've been great in the red zone, and I think that Baker deserves a good amount of credit for that. Not all the credit, but like I've been impressed because last year I thought he was doing the carry job where it's like they didn't have any run game and he was asked to shoulder so much of a load. This year, it's a more balanced, more complete offense. But I've still been really impressed by him.
Maybe I'm blind.
Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I just cannot get on board.
Yeah, between you two, but I do think he's a top half quarterback. I don't think he's top ten, but I do think he's top half. I don't think he's a situation merchant, like I think the situation is good, but I think he's showing you even when the situation isn't good, he can produce in a way that some other guys around the league just haven't shown. So that is really interesting. Logan, who is in your twenty three spot?
So I have Anthony Richardson here? I believe in the physical tools. I think Richardson's going to be a stud one day. And so, like I said, this next stretch is kind of the younger, unproven crop guys I believe in the most. So yeah, I've got Richardson a top three.
I do feel like Baker is still a tier above the names that are being thrown out in this right But I'm interested THEO and who you have right above him? Who's your number twenty two? I have?
I have Bryce Young?
Wow, you think Bryce is better than me?
He's charmed me.
He's charmed me.
Gotten just prea sure Disney whimsy that he's got. Wow.
But yeah, I I Bryce was so good against the Cardinals yesterday that he just charmed me. Maybe this is too high because he was just so bad the first you know, sixteen starts of his career and in a way that it's almost tough to come back from. But he he seems to be doing the thing like he was the first overall pick for a reason, and recently he's just been so good against the Blitz, so good under pressure, the things that just absolutely sunk him early in his career, it has completely flipped in a way that is rare. I mean, it's the kind of improvement that we talk about from like a Josh Allen when he like started to turn it around. People say like, oh, you just never see improvement like this. I don't know if I've seen improvement like this like what I'm seeing from Bryce Young. Like he's hitting the top of his drop. There's like a wall of people coming at him, and it doesn't matter that he's short. He's able to like fade away and he's put some of these like outbreaking throws under pressure just on the money, like week after week after week, recently, and I think he's impressed me. He's got some you know, out of structure wiggle to him, a lot of wiggle to him. Yeah, it should have been in the Eagles, but Laguet dropped the ball against the Cowboys. He took a ton of sacks, he took just a lot of negative plays in general. So I might be jumping the gun here, but I have been moved by some of these Bryce young performances. I think he's got a chance to actually kind of end up hitting little bit, but he's still in the twenties for a reason that is it would be a bit unprecedented.
Yeah. I like what we've seen from Bryce recently. I do, but I do think part of it is sort of viewed from the prism of like, this dude is like the most improved, you know. It actually reminds me, to some extent of the discourse that we had about bo. I think that Bryce has done more impressive stuff. But I think when you come from such a low point and then you look that much better, I think it's all the more exciting, and people want to give you maybe extra credit for that. I struggle to see the case for Bryce being better than Baker Mayfield. I do. I get what you're saying about poison under pressure. I just think there is a different level of ability to create still that we have seen from Baker, Like I would need to see Bryce doing more out of structure. Still, I do think there's a completely different level of arm talent. That's a bit of a tough case for me to see. But obviously Bryce doesn't have good weapons. I just still worry about the ceiling for him with the physical tools unless he really starts weaponizing his quickness more.
Yeah, that's the thing that kind of gets me excited about him is I think there is a lot more quickness and decisiveness to his game. I mean, Baker in this scheme, with this offensive line, he's not under pressure hardly at all this season. I think he still struggles to be, you know, kind of on time and play in rhythm. That's my biggest issue with him is he just isn't really I don't know, Like Liam Cohen makes him get the ball out sometimes, I think, and that helps him, but when there's actually an opportunity to like drop back and play in rhythm, and we really see like the type of quarterback that Baker is I think he really struggles with a lot of the things that Bryce also struggles with. I I've got them in the same tier right now. I'd feel about as good as you know, about the same with both of them. With Baker, it's like, how do you do outside of Liam Cohen system? With Bryce sitswell, can he keep it up? You know? I think both of those questions are just about his existential To me.
It's a vintage NFC South mid off. Oh yeah, I think the answer is pretty clear in my opinion. So my number twenty two is Aaron Rodgers. I think that we kind of already touched on this, but he obviously has his limitations. At this point, the ARM isn't as live as it once was. He's obviously not nearly the creator out of structure and the mover that he once was, and he has been disappointingly inaccurate to me. But I still think he's a good processor of the game. I still think that he's got a solid arm. He's been inconsistent, like a lot of the guys in this range. He's had some high highs. I mean, he's had some games where he's really putting it all together and is just in total control, and then he's had some games where he just can't move the football down the field, and I just think there's been too many of the ladder for me to have him higher than this. Like, obviously the offensive situation is not good because of the offensive line, because of the run game, but the passing attack, the weapons that he has at his disposal, He's got one of the best receiving duos in football, and I just don't think he's made the most of that, Like for them to still be twenty third and net yards per pass attempt, for them to be as a mnemic of an offense as they've been in totality, I do think that that speaks to the level that Rogers is playing at. It's just a very mediocre level. And there's a lot of good quarterbacks in the NFL right now, and so I would definitely have Rogers clear of all the dudes below him, like Carr is the guy once Boppalo hoom. I definitely prefer Rogers, but out of this next sort of tier of really solid quarterbacks, I think he's at the bottom for me.
And the biggest thing, I mean, the biggest reason for me is just the lack of mobility now is like anytime the pocket collapses and they send it blitz, it's like Rogers is helpless. Like the Minnesota game was really ugly. There's some ugly stuff on tape from this last game, like he just can't move anymore. And when the play is open early and he can get the ball out quick to Adams or Garrett, he can make that play, but it's it's gotta be quick, it's got to be on time. There's really nothing I think that Rogers can do out of structure right now.
Timing, too, I think is a good point. Like I feel like his timing with the has not been as money as you would think with how much football they've played together. I think it's gotten better, But on totality this year, I think that that's been kind of a surprising issue to some extent.
So my number twenty two, I think you guys have both already had him on the list. I've got Caleb Williams here. He's one of the better guys out of the young QB bunch. And again I'm striking a balance here between how much I want them for a game today and how much I want them long term. But I think Caleb's the best out of that bunch. That being said, if you start in a game for me tomorrow, I would be a little bit concerned about the accuracy. And that's what keeps him from being higher, just because you know, I think we're all kind of anticipating a record setting, record breaking, you know, quarterback debut rookie season from him. And it's been Jayden, Jaden's been that guy. It hasn't been Caleb. So he's down here for me.
Who's at twenty one?
For you?
Theo who's one spot above Brice toa.
I got Tua Tua's game like I could be convince to move him down and not up. He's another one that I just do not respect the way that he approaches the quarterback position. If I was a coach, it's the complete opposite of what I'd value. Obviously, there are many that feel differently. There are many with schemes that might, you know, fit to his skill set perfectly. But I just want someone who can hold the ball. Really, I want someone who can hold the ball and make plays better than he can. He can throw a mean dig, He can do some crazy impressive things ball handling. I mean, people freak out when like Mahomes does a no look like shovel to Kelsey or whatever, like the best of that is actually toua like he's hit some just crazy stuff like real short, but you start to stretch the field and it starts to fall apart. You try to get him to, you know, manipulate a defender with his eyes. He he kind of does it like he'll look someone off in the flat and then immediately the dig. But it's like I almost wonder how much he's really processing how often he throws that dig of all the time, or if coach just says like look off into the flat and then throw over the middle, it'll be there, because sometimes it'll just go right to somebody standing there that he just didn't see. So I'm like, how much reading are you really doing or are you just like, you know, going through the motions that coach told you to go through. That's what's opening some things up, and the speed of the playmakers is opening some things up and then things just happen to be there. Like how much are you doing yourself? I don't think it's much because routinely this guy throws. This guy throws the worst picks you'll ever see in your life. I've been doing the interception reviews on TikTok for like three years now. That guy's two always throws the worst ones, the ones where it's like, oh it is right to the guy. Oh, it's so clear there's a lack of arm strength here. He's got a real turnover problems. He's got a big game problem, he's got a concussion problem. There's just a lot that would prevent me from wanting to build around him the point where he could he could even be lower than number twenty something, twenty two.
Wherever I've got him.
I agree with a lot of what you laid out. I have two, just a few spots higher. I have him at number nineteen. All the limitations I think are undeniable at this point, right, I mean, obviously, the arm talent is very low end for an NFL starter. Obviously the mobility is very low end for an NFL starter. Just the ability to create out of structure and totality hugely limiting. How he's fared against elite defenses, how he's fared against just good teams period. Turnovers have been such a massive problem, how he's fared in bad weather, Like all of these things are big old limitations for two, big old limitations that to me have always made the conversation some people want to put him in silly. The reason that maybe I give him just a little bit more grace than you THEO is I do think he's so good at that instructure stuff. I do think his timing is that good. I do think his accuracy is really good. I still have him as a guy who is below the equator in terms of NFL starters, but I think he's pretty close to that. And I think for a regular season quarterback he's good, right. I mean, we've seen him lead out really good offenses, great situations, of course, great play calling, great weapons around him. But we've seen him do that. But when it comes to a playoff game, Yeah, Honestly, like the guy who I have one spot below him, I might prefer specifically in that context because I just think two has so many massive red flags in those sort of games, and we've seen it over and over and over again. In fact, we've never really seen him play well in those situations. Like it's just reruns, man, it's just Hollywood sequel over and over again. If Tua letting you down in the same way.
Yeah, I've actually got to it my twenty one spot too, and I agree a lot with what you said theo U. The only thing I would add is I think that the thing I mentioned about Rogers kind of also applies to Tua two. When you can disrupt that timing and that rhythm and he has to do stuff out of structure, he's really limited. Also, what you were talking about with quarterbacks, I can hold the ball. You have to gimmick your offense around a guy like to it. And I'm not saying that's an inherently like bad thing, like I think you should always I think coaches should tailor their scheme and game plan around the players and not vice versa try to pigeonhole them into a system. But it's like the way to a play is it's so easy to disrupt, in my opinion, when you get into these big games and these cold weather situations. And I know the numbers, right because everybody last year uh To led the league in yards. You know he had all these dds and no interceptions. What did he do in big games? What did you do against great competition? What did he do out of structure? I still think he's really limited and what you mentioned too, Carson, I would hear an argument too lower if it was just a playoff game or something like that, Like hell, I might take Kayleb Willie, I might take Derek Carr over to a for a playoff game or something like that.
Man, oh my, it's pretty bad. It's pretty bad.
I gotta see you guys. Let me rethinking who I have at number twenty one, cause when I really try to think about this in a vacuum, I'm trying to think about who would scare me more. Because in fact, both these quarterbacks actually play in the AFC in my Buffalo Bill's division, and we've seen both you thinking versus Tuas.
Wow, really clear to me, Bro, I'm already done that question I'm taking.
I'm conflicted. I think that you a question, Carson May I think he's going to be an elite quarterback.
Ask do you have any concerns about him? Because I'm like, I'm just so.
Enamorous about him as zero concerns. I think he's going to be an elite quarterback. I think you could stamp it right now. And there's not a worst offensive situation in football. Obviously, he has probably the worst offensive line not probably the worst group of weapons, like.
A big Jalo low and Pop Douglas.
Douglas. Pop Douglas is the next big thing I got Pats fans in my early Kayshn Booty didn't even get a mention. He's been like their number one receiver kind of as of late. Of course, Hunter Henry Hunter, Henry just a monster for it's a terrible situation. It is an insanely bad situation. And he's still giving you almost seven yards per pass attempt. He's got fourteen touchdowns, ten picks. He's given you solid production through the air. He's got almost four hundred rushing yards over eight yards per attempt. He's been one of the most effective scrambling quarterbacks in football. He's got a hell of an arm. I think he processes the game at a pretty high level, and he can do that stuff out of structure. Like I think he tries some things that he probably shouldn't at this point, and I think that's where some of the turnover stuff comes into play. I thought that he had pretty bad pick in the red zone against the Bills, and then he also led to a defensive touchdown, but that was really just he was throwing a screen backwards pass and it got blown up. That wasn't so much on him, Like I'm just thinking Tua is more dependable, but Drake is really really good. Put Drake in that situation. Man, if you put Drake in.
Miami, did they win?
It's not a bad point at all. Dude, I might flip on this, do it. I don't know, sell me, sell me Fellas.
No to his When can you name one good to a big game, like really like.
Actual big game?
Yeah? No, No.
The one thing that that blew my mind on the broadcast yesterday was they said that, well you know that's said I saw you tweeted that out Initially, theo I think about after Drake was three games through he had like the most yards per rushing attempt of I think at the time it was the most rushing yards per attempt of any player in NFL history. But he has no designed runs this year. And that's what I would point to is the Pats don't like draw us. Now.
He had a couple in the Bills game. Those were actually his first from.
From the last game. Yeah, but like that's ridiculous, Like that is Drake calling his own number every time before this game? I will say Drake has maybe the funniest pick on the year next to Will Levis that won in the Bears game where he's rolling out and just never see TJ. Edwards. He throws it like right to him in that game. I just that would be my argument to you, Carson, is if you put put Tula on New England and you have girod Meyo as your coach and Alex van Pelt and that offensive line and is very that receiving talent like Tua might win what two games he's playing in the cold all year long? I mean, and you give Drake May, Tyreek Hill and Jalen Waddell, the Dolphins might be a playoff team.
Dude, all right, you cooked, I'm move. I mean, I think this is just a spot where you have to do your best possible to separate the guys from the situation. And I feel like I probably didn't even do that enough, because I do think that Drake is that good. I think that he has every trait that I look for in an awesome quarterback, and Tua is basically lacking all the traits that I really really want. As you said, THEO like when it comes to these sort of big games where I just need my quarterback to make plays. But it's tough because Tua has like had a pretty darn good stretch of this regular season as of late. I thought that he played really well against the Bills, and like, obviously they've won what.
Five of their last So you can throw a check down to a chain. Drake May can do that, all right.
I'm going to all the way down to twenty one. Actually, I'm gonna backpack, let's go, and I'm gonna put Drake May at twenty. I've been convinced I like that.
I think that's a good call.
Okay, so let's see, Logan, who's in your twenty one spot?
Probably the inverse, Oh, I have tuat twenty one. So in my twenty spot, I have brought Purty here, And honestly, it's it's a lot of the same thought exercise we just would did with Tua. And actually, I think the hammer in the nail and the coffin for Tua for me would be in a playoff game. It's like, I just don't want Tua in a playoff game, period. And the difference between two and Brock wide prefer Brock to Tua. Both of these guys are in great offensive situations, brilliant offensive minds, offenses that when they're healthy, can normally run the football with good skill position talent. Brock has a little more of that self creation edge. But guys, think about if you had asked this a year or two ago, you may have had casual football fans putting brock Purty in the top ten or maybe even the top five.
With how they were playing higher than ten.
Buddy, Yeah, he was what third and MVP voting last year, something ridiculous.
I think he was fourth. I think it was Lamar dak CMC brock Purty, then Josh Allen.
It is ridiculous. But I think you really see Brock's limitations in two situations. Bad weather games. The game against Buffalo this year was a disaster. I know all of it wasn't on him. His team also couldn't hold onto the football. But the Baltimore game as well. Right, Like, Brock in bad weather scares the but Jesus out of me. And when he's playing from behind, I know we saw it them come from behind in the Detroit game and the NFC title game. But I don't like Brock in either of those situations and it's like that's when you need your quarterback more than anything else. And on top of that, sure he's got a little self creation, he doesn't have the livest arm. I think that Brock can be inaccurate. I think Brock can be turnover prone because that's the attribution, right me. And you talked about that all last year, Carson. The guys like Tua, Brock, Jimmy g anytime there's a winning QB, they always get the this guy's great at protecting the football entree. You know, he's efficient, and it's like, well, actually, when you really look into it, he's not. And so Brock's just in that he's better than Tua because of the self creation edge, but he's still a liability in my opinion, and so he doesn't have like a crazy live arm. So Brock is firmly in the Tua tier to me, and he's at number twenty.
Bol Who do you have at twenty or are you at twenty one?
I think I also have Brock okay, And I think like he does some things that are cool, Like he's really twitchy and he's quick and he can get the ball out and he's you know, good at layering these throws in which I think is the most impressive throw you can hit. Sometimes is like some of these layered digs. But at the same time, it's the only throw he's really been trained to hit for a lot of the production that he's had. And I think the production that he's had is why people argue him as high as they have and why he gets all the MVP votes that he does. But if you look at like the most efficient quarterbacks of the twentieth century or the twenty first century, whatever century we're in, like Brock is like number one, and then like Jimmy G is like number two. Like I don't think that Jimmy G is like that either, you know. And he was worse than Brock was. And he went to the Super Bowl too and lost to the Chiefs, and he was, you know, the EPA darling too. And I just think it has to do with playing with Kyle Shanahan and getting to throw to Debo and Ayuk and McCaffrey and Kittle and having Trent Williams out there, and it's just an all star cast, and Brock hasn't done enough for me to prove himself when those guys are out Like last year against the Browns, he faced some injuries. You know, they went on a bit of a losing streak this year. Their guy are hurt.
He's not.
He's playing himself out of a big contract, like legitimately.
His arm talent is really poor.
To me, we saw that in the in the game against the Rams on Thursday a few nights ago. Every deep shot was just atrocious, like underthrown, not really giving his guy a chance. He scrambles a lot, but he scrambles to run. He's not really like you think about like Josh Allen Man like and I know he's the absolute tip top of athleticism like ever, but that guy like fades towards the sidelining he gets like closer to closer to running out of bounds. He can still uncork at fifty yards downfield. Jordan Love can do things like that. Who else Kyler can do things like that. There are guys with real, honest to god arm talent. Brock is just not one of those guys. He breaks structure all the time, but he's not gonna be like getting closer to closer to the sideline, like oh man, he's really about to launch it. His average yards per throw outside of the pocket is like four yards. It's it's really low. He's actually he's the best from the pocket. And I think that's because he has all these yack monsters to throw to over the course of his career. And I think Shanahan's a really good offensive buying I think Brock himself, I mean, what is he's like, I don't know who's like a role player on the Celtics.
Like if we had stacked up Peyton.
Prichard, Prichard got a little bit of juice.
He's got a little bit of He's not.
He's maybe the best shooter in basketball this year, though.
Bayden Bridger has been nasty.
Has Peyton Pritchard been the best shooter in basketball?
That's a perfect cont Then look you've got you've got whatever the.
But yes, Peyton Richard has been very efficient.
Okay, so he's Peyton Pritchard on the Celtics. You got all these monsters that draw all this attention. It creates really easy looks for him to like look like the most accurate guy ever when he's not.
And it's just he's that kind of guy on the.
Course of football team over instead of a basketball team it's just that he plays quarterback, so he will infinitely get more credit than you know, a role player for the Celtics does for their wins.
I have brought at number eighteen. I mean, I think that we're basically aligned on this. I think this year has very much vindicated those of us and we all fall into this group who last year right had to be fighting hard on the Battle of tuas not elite. Party is an elite because their efficiency numbers were astronomical, but else their offensive situations were incredible because of play calling, because of the skill position talent that they had, Like it's just a great infrastructure to succeed in and it can make an average quarterback look elite, Like you hit the nail on the head with the Jimmy G point theo, Like, if you look at all of the efficiency numbers, they would tell you that Jimmy G is one of the best quarterbacks of this century. And it always blew my mind that Niners fans conclusions after that after seeing them produce these elite offenses with Jimmy G, who was bad, who I think was bad, who I think was definitely worse than Party, then per is putting up like slightly better numbers, but you just had a not good quarterback who was putting up lead efficiency numbers and leading an elite team offense quote unquote leading. And your conclusion when Perdy is doing it is not, oh, we just got a slightly better quarterback who's thriving because our system is so awesome. It's we got the next Tom Brady. We got the greatest quarterback talents ever lived. Like that never made sense to me. It still doesn't make sense to me. He never belonged to MVP conversations. He's solid. I think that he belongs above Tua because he can do more out of structure, he can do more with his legs. I think his arm is a little bit more dynamic, and he's not quite as good at some of that timing and instructure stuff as Tua is, and I think he maybe has been a little bit worse in those areas compared to the level he was at last year. I just think Brock is solid man. I think he's unremarkable. I think his athletic tools are unremarkable, but better than tuas So I have him down here. I had Drake at number twenty. Logan, who do you have at number twenty.
I've so I've got Brocket twenty. I'm into nineteen. I think we all are. I'm trying to figure out who you have at nineteen. Carson, I've got Trevor la I've got Trevor Lawrence in this spot. And te Low is hard to rank because I think he still checks all your boxes of like superstar quarterback traits, like he's still got the cannon arm. He's still got some mobility out of the pocket. And that's why he's completely clear of Brocker II of conversations. I get it, guys, they win games. Trevor Lawrence doesn't. He plays for a freaking Jaguars, man. I mean it is as poverty franchise as it gets, Dude. It's since he it's Carolina and it's Jacksonville, man, I mean scraping the bottom of the barrel. Put since he in there, and since he is a poverty franchise since the day they were invented. Dude, they had them boys practicing outside. They didn't even have a practice facility. And you hear all the end of the year reports the Bengals have f's across the board. They should I've said this before they should change their name to the Cincinnati Burrows, because once Joe Blow is gone, that franchise is done. So I don't really hold the overall losses against Trevor against him, but I will say this year was really alarming in terms of his performance, specifically that Browns game. The Browns suck. They put up eighteen points against the Jags, the worst offense in football, and yet he and I get the Browns defense was good and has been playing all right. Trevor's was really an accurate And that's the biggest concerning thing to me, is because you'll see other things and it'll be inconsistent. But he's been consistent, consistently off target and inaccurate for a while and that concerns me. But I still buy into the physical traits. I still think Trevor eventually is going to be an above average quarterback in this league. I would have paid him the big contract. I know that was controversial. I still believe in Trevor, and I think I lean on the side if he's going to figure it out. I hope they overhaul this coaching staff. They let Doug Peterson and everybody else go, and they completely read tool. It sucks doing that to a young quarterback. But I think it's the route it's looking up.
Though.
I really like Brian Thomas. I like the connection he has with Evan Ingram. There's something, there's something that I think could be there Jacksonville. Maybe not next year, but over the next five years. I hope they figure it out. And again I still buy into Trevor because of those physical tools that other guys just simply don't have.
THEO who do you have in nineteen, I've got Russ.
Danger Russ. He's been a pleasant surprise this year. I think that he's done a good job kind of accounting for his age in a way that hasn't always been the case. Like late in Seattle and even in Denver, he's getting rid of the ball a lot faster than he was before, especially on deep balls. Like his average twenty plus air yard throw came after three and a half seconds in Denver. I mean that's longer than it was during his Seattle days when he was like running around in Pittsburgh. Gets like at a nice two point eight seconds last I checked, like, hit the top of your drop, get it out to pickens.
It's been accurate.
If that's not there hit the check down two nause or friar muth or something like that. There's very little intermediate in his game, but that's okay if he's hitting the big stuff at a high rate. This most recent week against the Ravens, he fell back into some old habits. I think things have been going a little bit too well for him, and he's like, I still got it, man, Like you could almost see it in his head, Like as he was running towards the end zone and decided to cut back, he is like, I'm.
The old Russ.
We're playing for the division, like clinch the playoffs, Like I'm that guy again. And he tries to like make somebody miss any fumbles and like just kind of in general, the game got away from him a little bit. He needs to play within himself again. But I've liked him when he's been doing that. But he is still limited. I wish there was more intermediate stuff with him, but he's He's been a pleasant surprise. I've enjoyed watching him this year for the most part, And even when he was bad, I was still laughing.
So, yeah, so you had fun, And I think I did have fun.
Matter, I did have fun, and it was no pickings, so I can maybe give you a bit of a bit of a pass.
But I have r Was at number nineteen too, and I think that he's done a good job here. I mean, I think that the Steelers' offense has overachieved expectations with him at the helm, and like when you are down pickings, it's a really tough spot, and he's done a pretty solid job of avoiding mistakes. He's been pretty efficient. I have Tila higher than him. I actually have Tilaup at number seventeen, and I think that does just come down to te Law does still have a different level of ability at this stage compared to Russ. In my opinion, the accuracy stuff with te Law was really bad to start this year, but it did get better. And I just think he's one of those guys who the box score is very unkind too and a little bit dishonest with because the situation has been so bad in terms of play calling, and I think the receiving talent has gotten better, but he didn't get to play with Brian Thomas Junior all that much, and like we know how much drops have plagued the Jags historically. I still think when you look at a lot of those traits, Like, do I think he's at the level that I expected him to be at or that I thought he'd be at as a prospect or after his second season. No, he hasn't been consistently that guy. But like still his ability to stand in the pocket, his pocket presence, his size, his athleticism, his ability to move his arm, talent, Like, there's a lot of good there. So I don't think the results justify him being higher, like being an upper echelon fringe top ten sort of quarterback, like I think he would have been a year or two ago if we had these conversations. But I still do like him more than a Russ.
I completely understand that. The one thing with Russ, I mean, Russ has been so good at playing safe football, and that is what I like about Russ, of avoiding sacks for the most part, throwing the ball away, limiting turnovers. That's what's been great about Russ. And the one thing that I think has elevated him on this list is his deep ball. I think Russ those one of the best deep balls in foot ball, Like he has been deadly accurate, and not just to George too, I mean you've seen some plays to Calvin Austin, yeh, to Mike Williams, like he's he's had some some moments with other guys last week. Was that that was something? Man? Yeah, dude, you could you talk about him licking his chops? Yeah? Man, I could see it. Like Russ thought he was going to have that classic Pittsburgh Steelers moment. This is going to be everywhere on social Like he got a little bit too greedy there. But for the most part, I trust Russell Wilson and I've been really impressed with him this year. I thought he was washed in Denver. I thought he was completely cooked. And it is just a cause wholeheartedly. I would rather have Trevor Lawrence for the future, but for a game I think Russ, I think is just a little bit safer right now. The one thing I think the Steelers need to do, and I didn't say this yesterday, I think Russ runs a hurry up offense really well, and I wish the Steelers and a lot of quarterbacks too, I wish would just get into quicker drives and quicker paces. Russ runs a really good two minute drill still at this point in his career, and I think when the offense is sputtering, with or without George Pickens, I wish they'd implement. Even back to Big Ben, the offense ran better. I think with these veteran quarterbacks that get it, I wish they'd run a little bit more tempo. I think if the Steelers offense is sputtering, that would help him out a little bit. But he's he's at number he's one spot ahead of te Law. For me, he's at eighteen.
Okay, THEO, who's your number eighteen?
My number eighteen?
Let's see, let's see it was uh? I think it's it's may here, Dreg may here, Okay, and that might be too high.
Well, what do you want to add about him?
I guess yeah, we've talked about him. I like, I like a lot about him. I loved him as a prospect, and I think he's shown through on it. I think like he's very darnaldy like at worst, I think like maybe he's not Josh Allen, maybe he will never be that good, but like there is a there is an aggressiveness to him, a traitsiness to him where it's like he'll always I mean, I guess this wasn't always the case with Donald. But I mean Drake's already gone through his rookie year better than Darnold did. But there's gonna be a lot of juice with him throwing past the sticks, scrambling like, there's gonna be explosive plays to counteract the negative dumb ones that he has it. Just where will that ratio end up settling is the only question.
Yeah, I'm pretty confident in the ratio though. Man, I think he's a big play.
I think so too.
I think he's got all the traits. I absolutely love Drake man. I thought some of the pre draft discourse around him was crazy. I know you were high on him THEO. I was high on him. He was my QB two. He's been awesome this year. I mean he's certainly been better than Caleb, who was QB one. So I have Brocket eighteen if t Lot seventeen. As I already said, Logan, who do you have at seventeen?
This guy's making our debut one on the list. I think he's probably gonna be higher for you guys.
Drake May way up there. You slice on him, a bitch.
I only have Drake May at sixteen, and it is that veteran presence. And just because we saw some of the bad this year, if we had done this list a year ago, this guy would be a shoe in for top ten. I have Dak Prescott and it's just because this season we just saw some of the negative. And maybe I'm skewed from the Steelers game, but Jesus Christ, man, Dak was given out Christmas gifts back then. Dude, I don't. I still think Dak has that Bozo jen and that's why Dak's down here for me. Drake may have. I don't think Drake has a And like you can point to maybe Golfer Darnold and say maybe they have that Boso gene in your way bakery. Look, man, Dak just he just.
Has thought that one het on that one and then he dodged it and he's I'm not gonna address that.
I don't think Baker does Dak.
Baker has the bozo gen. Of course he has the Bozo jan, but he's also got Baker dub White.
Baker's got the playmaker gene. Dak just Dak's Bozo jene seems to rear its ugly head more than I'd like. And last year, he was really good at limiting it, but this year.
I don't know.
Maybe it's the star on the side of his helmet. He just getting mad in clutch games, in big moments, Dak's gonna poop his pants. I know it's coming. He's gonna lay a stinker. I just there's this sort of impending My heart is sinking, and not in a good way, not in like a Lamar Josh, oh shit, this dude's gonna hit a big play with Dak gets my heart is sinking. He's gonna throw an interception. I can't shake that feeling with Dak, And that's basically my justification for him being this low, because he's got the veteran presence he was an MVP candidate last year. I get it. I just feel like he's gonna crumble. That's why Dak's at seventeen.
He has had way too many just bizarre picks in the playoffs and then the Packers game last year. It was definitely tough to defend him after that, especially just going into how poorly he played. But I still really like the aggressiveness with him. I think he's as good as we've got, as we've got as like a pocket passer, or at least in the regular season. I mean, he's a true kind of throwback quarterback. People always yearn for the days. It's like, oh, I remember when Peyton would have five thousand yards and Breeze would have five thousand yards and Rogers would have four thousand and Flacco would have four thousand.
Like he's kind.
Of of that era where it's just spread, no motion, just we're gonna line up and we're gonna go through a full progression and win from the pocket like that. I think he's as good as anybody playing like that, at least in the regular season. So I've got him pretty high. But yeah, the playoff success needs to come. But the thing with Dak that I always I am holding out hope for is like he might because of this style, like he might play for another ten years. I still think, like, yeah, he can kind of buck this, this playoff monkey off his back at some point, let's hope, because it has not happened yet.
Look, man, I don't know how I've found myself as a Dak defender, but I think I am a Dak defender. I have Dak a good bit higher than this. I think that you laid it out there THEO. I mean, I still think he's an elite pocket passer, and I actually think on average, he's a pretty elite processor of the game. Now, this year, he had some bad picks, Like there's just no two ways about that. I also think though, he felt an insane amount of pressure in this offense, considering that the run game was a.
Zero and the boundary receivers of zero too, Like, it's just CD and he would get bracketed. So it's like, do you force it to CD or do you force it to someone who sucks?
Like and he was expected to put up forty points in every game because the defense was decimated when he was healthy, Right, no Mike and no Darron Blaine. They were down all these key guys. It was just a terrible, terrible situation. And I'm not gonna judge him entirely by him in the worst situation that he's had in his career, because I also think, like, you look at what he did last year. Man, the Cowboys were a number one offense in football, and they were the number one offense in football with CD as the only standout receiving weapon, with a run game that was entirely unimpressive with an offensive line that was just solid, Like that was Dak carrying you from the pocket. I just thought his control of the game last season was so masterful. And you see that right with the thirty six touchdowns to nine picks and over forty five hundred yards, and he really was with CD carrying that offense. So I get the playoff stuff. What's difficult for me with Dak is that I struggled to see the cause of the playoffs stuff in the same way that I do with a tool, where it's like, oh, he just has these core limitations in terms of arm, talent, mobility, creation, now structure, like Dak has the aggression, Dak has shown the decision making. It's I think part of it is sample size. I think part of it is just we gotta get him.
Back to the Cowboys, get him a couple more shots at it.
Well, he's a Cowboys quarterback. That's why you hate him. Meet Personally, I'm unbiased.
I don't hate Deck. I root for him and I think he's a good guy.
Oh you don't root for him. You want to see him burn with the rest of the Cowboys.
Oh, don't get Oh, I thoroughly enjoy a cowboy's loss.
For sure. My favorite cowboy of all.
Time Troy Aikman. Gotta be right. I don't know he's mine, it doesn't matter. It didn't have to be alive.
Maybe probably Tony Romo.
I kind of like Romo.
I like Romo as a commentator, but when he played, I just thought he was so overrated. Ironically, now that I've grown and matured in my football, I think he's kind of underrated. Now.
I'll say one more thing about Dak real quick. The one concern that I do have about him beyond the playoff stuff which we can't write off. I mean, if we were just looking at regular season resume, he'd be higher than this, but there is I have him doubt at ten. I'll just say that outright. The one thing that concerns me that we've seen this year beyond the pick because I don't know that's concerning, but again, the situation's a factor. I do think his mobility has continued to get worse, and now he has another hamstring injury that like shouldn't really be a long term thing, but maybe it is something that just continues to wear on him. Like I just think he hasn't been a scrambler for a long time, but he's less of a threat as a mover. He's a less effective mover than he's ever been before. So that's the one sort of long term thing that I would consider a knock on deck. But I'm still a good bit higher on him than this. Okay, THEO who's next for you?
Let's see, I think I got Rogers next. I'm a bit higher on Rogers. I think that he's got a lot of things that hold him back that are just like personality things more than like on field things like I think he insisted on bringing in like hack It and like a bunch of like bad receivers that kind of amstrung the team. And I think a lot of the problems with the offense come from the OC and just like the style of play he wants to do. But I think like the ability within his body is still kind of there, Like the mobility isn't like he's not going to be weaving through the whole defense and like getting hit and throwing and scoring touchdowns like he was with the Packers.
But I still like his arm.
I think that his accuracy is still pretty high level, like he's he's hit some total dots this year at this scene, but the consistency from I mean, it can be the same concept. I've seen it like within the same game, like the exact same thing happens, and like one time he hits it and then the next time he just turns it down and there's just no explicable reason for it. So I don't know what that's about. I don't know why he isn't on the same page with Garrett Wilson of all, who's like always open, and they just couldn't connect early in the year. And it's like why, Because is it because you were in Egypt? Like I think that might be why, you know, Like he just isn't there during the time to work these kinks out. And then like he doesn't talk to Wilson on the sideline, Like I remember hearing the sideline reporter saying, like Tyrod Taylor went over.
And talked to him. It's like, bro, why is it Rod? You're the one who needs to work things out.
But I do still think that there's a good thrower of the football in there. He's one of the better players against man coverage this year. Actually, he still kind of has that fade in his bag. If he sees cover one, he'll go to DeVante, He'll go to Wilson, He'll drop some dimes. He's, like I said, thrown some dimes at the seam. So like, I have a very complicated I have a very complicated relationship on how I feel about Rogers in all aspects of him.
Uh.
And it's still complicated now because I'm like I he's not like one, like totally done to the level of like Kirk Cousins, but at the same time, he's also not good and he does a lot of like off the field stuff. I feel like that makes his situation worse, and I don't quite know how to weigh that.
The reason I was so okay with leaving him as low as I did is I just don't think Rogers has that burning desire to really win anymore. And I get that that gets beaten out of you as this season goes along, because you've got.
That desire to burn Eyahuasca. Am I right?
Damn right, damn right, that was the I just like you said, dude, if you really wanted it, like I feel like, you'd be at training camp early, you'd be at rookie Minni Camp. Working with these guys, you would be doing these things that you'd be taking on that leadership role. We're like, dude, you're one of the three greatest quarterbacks in NFL history. Man, Like, in my opinion, I think you're I just feel like I wish he had taken that responsibility and owned it. I feel like he wants to avoid that and wants nothing to do with that is a big part of playing the quarterback position. And I don't know if he's ever was.
He like this?
Did you think he was like this in Green Bay?
I mean he he there was a time where he wasn't very good in Green Bay.
I mean there is a time.
I mean they drafted Jordan Love for a reason and then he got pissed and then he the fire lit and then he started to turn it on and was an MVP two straight years. And I thought getting traded could relight that fire, like, but it didn't. And I know, like he clearly hates ownership there and it's probably valid, and maybe he just doesn't want to play for Woody Johnson and just just like whatever, dude, I'm gonna chill somewhere else and I'm gonna make all the decisions, and I'm gonna, you know, not put my best foot forward because like you're an idiot and your brick Johnson's son is like running the team or whatever, so maybe that has stuff to do with it. And he's just like almost trying to force his way out, like I could see, and like trying to start again and really get a ride off into the sunset with the Vikings next year and completing his far varc But uh, who knows what goes on in that guy's head.
I don't know.
I he's capable of playing better than he did this year on the Jets. I still believe that it's just you know, maybe by the chance he gets to prove it, the arm actually does start to go more than it was this year. So who knows what we'll ever see from him again?
I don't know.
Yeah, I don't think we can discout the possibility of a resurgence because I think that clearly he's had it in him to be a quality, like above average starting quarterback, like that's what the highs have been, but the consistency really has been an issue. So I'm a little lower Logan you have Drake May at sixteen I'll go ahead. I'll say my number sixteen. I have Jalen Hurts here, and I think that this is where we're in a very tight range of like six quarterbacks who I kind of debated in various orders. I'm not the highest on Hurts. I do think he has some limitations. I think he holds onto the ball for a really long time, the longest average time in the NFL. Actually, I don't think he's a consistently great decision maker. I think that he's done a really nice job of cutting down on the turnovers as this year has gone along. But I don't know that I can consistently rely on him if you're gonna ask him to shoulder more of a load in this offense. Like, I still think there's the potential for some mistakes there. I don't think he has consistently great pocket presence. I think he misses out on some opportunities in the passing game that I would like to see him take. But there's a lot of stuff that he does well. He's efficient as a passer. He's been very efficient as a passer. He's been much better taking care of the football since the buye And obviously like he's an awesome short yardage threat with his legs. He's an awesome red zone quarterback because of what he can do with his legs. Is just when I look at the guys above him, I don't think you could carry some of those other situations like those guys can do or are doing, mostly because all of them are better pure passers and probably have better feel for the game and just are probably more audacious through the air, right. They just do more to elevate a situation, whereas Jalen Hurts is in heaven, Like, is there a better offensive situation than having that offensive line, that run game, that receiving tandem, Like it's unbelievable. And so that's where I think the production with him. The efficiency, yeah, maybe would make you think he belongs a little higher, but in terms of ability in a vacuum, this is where I feel comfortable with him. At sixteen.
He's kind of got that purty thing where like he holds the ball for a long time, but he's not that good of a creator at least throwing, Like you don't think about Jalen Hurts like again, I'm gonna use the classic Josh Allen.
He's running towards the sideline. He throws it.
Across his body because everybody chased him to the sideline. There's someone open up the middle and he can hit it. Like Hurts isn't really like that as much as he scrambles as much as he he's more of like.
A power runner.
I love him in the QB like draw game or QB Power Game and scrambling to run, but not exactly scrambling to throw. He's not so great at that. And yeah, I think turnovers have been a problem with even in the Steelers game, where like he came out and said, like, is that what you That's what you guys wanted to see, right Like, even there, like he didn't protect the football.
He took some really bad hits from t. E. J. Watt.
It's a miracle he didn't fumble twice because of what. I don't know how he held out of that second one, but he kind of bailed out the back door and got hit.
He does some things really well.
We saw how much they missed him this last weekend when Kenny Pickett came in and they just loaded the box and blitzed Saquon Barkley and like no one could do anything about it. Well, I guess they DeVante Smith could have caught a ball and they could have won. But you know, Pickett made his fair share of mistakes and bad throws, so that Hurts probably would have hit. So he's a positive quarterback, but he's more limited than the top ten certainly. I think he doesn't throw over the middle.
Really, do you do.
You have Hurts in your sixteen spot the oh or a little bit higher?
I have one spot higher. I have him got fifteen. I have Jaden Daniels at number sixteen.
Okay, okay, let's hear the case.
I mean, maybe people are thinking this is a little bit low because he's turned to Washington around and he's, you know, been such an efficient rookie, and I agree with all that. I'm just don't want to over rank him too much. I think about like Stroud last year and the rookie year that he had, and people were like, oh my god, he needs to be ranked in the top three, he needs to be top five. You know, he's he's on the same level as like Joe Burrow right here, right now. He's better than Justin Herbert and Lamar like that. That's how people were talking about Stroud at the end of the year, because he had a good rookie season, and then the second year, you're like, he's still really good, but the luster starts to fade. And I'm thinking about Jaden this year, and I'm thinking about like all the kind of phases of this of this season that he's had. Early, it was a lot of checkdowns and the run game was absolutely cooking, and he was just kind of game managing his way through it and was super efficient at a crazy high completion percentage, and it was pretty good, but he wasn't maybe, you know, as elite as the numbers say. Then he kind of hurt his ribs and was kind of in a funk for a little bit. Recently, I think he's actually been playing some of his best ball, where the run game has kind of disappeared, Brian Robinson is fumbling on him. He's kind of got to take more of the load in the offense, and I think he's done a good job at that. But like he did take eight sacks in the Saints game, he did throw many bad picks in the Eagles game and tried to throw another one too.
So now that we're.
Seeing him shoulder more of the load, we're seeing a few more negative plays, We're seeing a real big dependence on him scrambling. I mean, he's an outlier how much he takes off and runs. So as good as he's been, and he's about the highest ranked rookie that I've got, I'm still not quite willing to put him in front of like a Super Bowl starting Jalen Hurts or.
You know, a Dack or somebody like that.
I think he's getting into that upper echelon of starter, but he's kind I'm comfortable just kind of saying that he's just breaking in there now, and it's kind of the lower end of high end starters.
Sure, I understand that I do have Jaden a little bit higher. I actually have Hurts in my fifteen spot as well. So the way I think about it is just I think that if and again it's not apples apples, but I think if you put Jaden like in Philadelphia, he's in such a better offensive situation, and the Commander's offense has been great with him one of the best scrambling rookies of all time, so efficient, so good at protecting the football, And I agree with you, I think he's playing his best football right now, even though we got off to such a hot start. So I have him a little bit higher. And the Hurts thing, it's interesting because Hurts kind of had that Rock Purty thing where you win a lot, you go to the super Bowl. And I don't want to take anything away from Hurts that year, because that was a phenomenal year. That was a really good playoff run. He balled out in the Super Bowl. What an awesome game that was. But I think Hurts has come back a little bit down to earth for me from that. The one thing that I struggled with was trying to weigh Hurts his rushing value among other guys, because I think he does have more dual threat ability than some of the guys I have higher on the list, but I much prefer their arms and their processing in their control of the game. In that regard, I've just seen Hurtz have really inaccurate games and make really really bad decisions. And not that these other guys aren't prone to that. I just feel like Jalen Hurts is more prone to having games like that than some of the guys that are above him. So that's why Hurts is at fifteen.
For me, I want to return to the Jane Daniels conversation real quick. I have him a good bit higher than this. I have him at number eleven actually, and I do think that he's had a really phenomenal rookie season. I mean a historic season in a number of ways.
Right.
He's in rare company already. In terms of total yardage. I think he's seventh total touchdowns. I want to say he's fifth. He's got twenty eight. He's third in rookie passer rating, He's second all time in rookie rushing yards. Like, the statistical case is pretty incredible. And I also think the impact on team offense has been so pronounced. I think the dual threat that he is just opens up so much for this running game makes them so effective. I think he's been so great hitting shot plays. And I think that Cliff Kingsbury has definitely done a great job of creating a scheme that puts him in positions to succeed. And I think that Terry has been awesome. I think that the offensive situation is solid, but I think the Jaden is the biggest reason that there are top five offense in football. And I just think he's actually gotten underrated. Like you mentioned the people overrating CJ stuff last year THEO, I don't think Jayden's gotten that treatment at all. Like maybe early in the year people were getting really hot on him, but now I agree with you. He just played undeniably his best game ever. I mean, I know he had like some of the ridiculously efficient performances early in the year, but what he just did against the Eagles defense, where he accounted for all but twenty nine of their yards, and he had five touchdowns and he overcame three fumbles by his teammates, Like that was an incredible performance. And I don't know he's getting props for that, but like, I don't know if he's getting as much love as he should be. Like the fact that he and Bonicks were in the same conversations to me was crazy. It's really really it's really special to see a rooky quarterback lead this sort of team offense that's been elite in like just about every way, right, I mean, the passing attack has been super efficient, the run game has been super efficient. They've been great on third down, great on fourth down, great in the red zone. I think Jayden deserves a lot of credit for that. So are there guys who I trust more as pure passers who have bigger arms, who I think are more polished from the pocket. Yes, that's why I have jayde at number eleven. But I think in terms of, like, just give me a guy who's an actual offensive engine, like Jayden is one of those dudes, and there's not a lot of those dudes in the NFL. And I think that he is that because he's so accurate, because he can't it on those big shot plays, and because he's such a great threat as a runner.
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
I mean, they the turnaround that they have had has been so historic from from last year to this year that it must be that a real special quarterback has entered the fold. I can buy that, but I'm still at sixteen. I'm still not gonna put him quite at eleven. And there's some guys that, you know, I think if you went from Sam Howell to them as well.
They they would probably go up in a big way. But five offense, would they? I don't know, It depends.
On how it happened, if I mean, I mean, the first month of the season is really when they built their huge statistical lead over like everybody they scored on like their average.
Game and like their skid.
They're and they just dropped thirty six on what a lot of people think it's the best defense in football that.
They they did, but they have not been as good recently as they were at the beginning of the year. Like I feel like when you look at the reason that they're a top ten offense, it's because they were scoring on like a ridiculous amount of their early season drives, like seventy five percent of them or something like that. And when Jenden Daniels was playing then, I didn't think that he had as much on his plate as he does now. Like I think that if Dak was the quarterback then like he probably could have know, hit some checkdowns and like, not that it was all of that, but I don't know.
I think that I think that it was a little bit inflated. And I don't think that.
The Eagles game was the best game of his career because I think the Saints game the week before this was actually better than the Eagles game because of the picks. Really really because of the picks. I mean, Jayden tried to give this one away. You really did it was a fourth quarter right when when did the second team happen?
Pick was that bad?
I threw it across his body.
It would have had to be a throw.
You can throw it away, you know, like that should probably put it away. And the pick before wasn't great either. I thought it was a bit more turnover probe. Like the Saints game. He took a ton of sacks, but I think that I had to do with the pass protection plans more like I'm seeing chip help that isn't helping, and then no one's out in the route, so everybody's doubled and he takes a sack. I'm like, I don't know what he's supposed to do in that scenario. Like he avoided all turnovers in that case, I thought he broke like a ton of tackles, made some really high end throws without the mistakes, really carried them to a win with a bad game plan last week. This week, I mean, he beat Kenny Pickett.
I mean, I know he beat the Eagles on the Eagles defense. That was because he threw to fix teammates fumbled three times.
I know, But the picks were what made it worse than the Saints.
He's an agenda that you're.
Driving gender pros Jaden Daniels versus New Orleans agenda that I'm going to push.
Forever to push an anti Jaden Daniels versus Philly agenda. That's no. I thought he was great in the first half. Ors in New Orleans like awesome. I just thought they stalled out so much in the second half, and he did take so many sacks.
But they like miss a field goal or it was a weird game.
It was a very weird game. They should have wont it more than they did, probably with the level that Jayden did play out overall in that game. Okay, so we disagree on Jayden. You guys both have hurts at fifteen. Logan, who's your number? Fourteen?
Yeah, I feel like consensus probably isn't gonna be with us. I feel like a lot of people would probably have hurts higher. I have Sam Donald at fourteen, and I mean I can't sing Sam Donald's praise is enough. I mean, he has won them games down the stretch over these last six weeks. He is playing damn near Falalas football. He's making plays out of structure, he's on time, he's on target, and again, as I mentioned with Jayalen Hurts. I don't want to be disingenuous to him when I talk about all the help he has with Smith and aj Brown in this line in Saquon, so does Sam Donald. He is in the best offensive situation I think possible. Kevin O'Connell is brilliant, Justin Jefferson is the best receiver in the game. Jordan Addison is great. TJ. Hockinson is great, Aaron Jones is great. Like, this is a great situation. But Sam Donald's playing really good ball and he doesn't scare me. I'm not his skept I guess I'll put it that way about Sam Donald as I was at the beginning of this year. I really like his feel, his pocket presence, how he's dealt with pressure. I've been really really impressed with Sam Donald.
Yeah, I've got him at fourteen as well. He has charmed me recently. Maybe this is a bit too high. I'm trying to keep it in the back of my mind. Like he had a Jets game earlier this year that was like really bad.
It's just Rogers was worse.
And then I don't think I've seen the Jaguars game even Still, that twelve to seven game, But I do see I am box score watching and see zero picks, three interceptions against one of the worst defenses in football. So maybe there is more of the old Sam Donald in there than we think, and I'm worried that it will kind of could show out come playoff time. But recently he has been unbelievably good. I mean some of the plays, like the most recent game against Seattle where he's climbed the pop and took a hit and put it on Justin Jefferson's back shoulder.
That was so beautiful.
The pocket movement before he hit the bomb at Jefferson versus Atlanta was pretty sick. He's been taking a lot of sacks recently and that's still his big kind of bugaboo, but he has been money under pressure. He has layered throws in there. He has been a big positive for them, especially recently, and he's been one of the best quarterbacks in football over the last month. So we'll see if this fourteen is taking that month too much into account, But right now I think he's playing like it.
I have him one spot higher at thirteen, and you mentioned it THEO I mean, since that Jags game in the Colts game where he was also bad. He had that little skid because the Jets game was just a couple of weeks before then, it wasn't very pretty. But last six weeks since that, I mean, he's been unbelievable. He's fifteen touchdowns, one pick just letting it rip, and just on this season. You look at the bottom line numbers and it's two hundred and fifty two passing yards per game, thirty two touchdowns, eleven picks, eight point two yards per attempt, one hundred and five passer rating. He's in a really good situation, there's no denying that. But he does have a whole lot of raw arm talent. I think the decision making overall has been good. Like that's the one thing where it's like I worry about it compared to the elite guys. But when I compare him to my numbers fourteen and fifteen, who I'll spoil. I have Baker at fifteen and Gino at fourteen. Decision making is a big question with those guys too. I mean, those guys both attempts and throws that they shouldn't and Gino it's complicated because, like I think his situation requires so much of him, but some of them like you just can't excuse. And both those guys have fifteen interceptions this year, So like, I trust Donald's decision making more than those guys. And I also think even like his mobility inside and outside the pocket this year has been better than I would have thought. I think Sam Donald is really really good, and I do think he's a little bit more dependable than those guys. So real quick, I'll just say Baker, we already talked about. I think his statistical case, I mean, the production is really impressive this year. But I do think if you put him in a Gino situation, if we're gonna compare those two, that's where I think Gino does have more raw arm talent. He has a more accurate arm, and he's not nearly as jittery in the pocket, right, I mean, he hangs in there, and good god, there is no situation where it would be more justifiable to be jittery in that pocket because that offensive line is horrible. But like, his pressure to sacrate is consistently impressive. The throws that he delivers behind that offensive line are so impressive, So I do trust him more in a shitty situation like he's been in. But then I think, you know, if you were to drop Gino into the Vikings offense, like, would he be better than Darnold playing at this level? I don't know, you really think so, Logan, Like, I think it's close. But Donald is just playing such clean football right now. And I still worry a little bit about Genoe was just trying windows that he shouldn't. I love Geno. I've always been a big believer, but I think Donald has just been so awesome and the turnovers have been more of a problem with Gino than they have over the last couple of years, where I've just been slightly moved and I'm gonna give Donald a very slight edge.
Yeah, I mean, Gino's interceptions are bad, don't get me wrong, But like, and this is a tough thought exercise, but like, I just feel like Gino has to make up so much for this offensive line and has to do. I feel the same way about Baker. I just think there's such a burden on these guys shoulders where you know, the Jared Goff, even with the Jared Goff who I have below those guys, I'll spoil that. Oh wow, he's been playing great football. Don't get me wrong, But like, these guys have brilliant offensive minds, they have elite, elite skill position talent, they have awesome offensive lines. I can't say that about Tampa Bay or Seattle, and so I just think those guys.
Can't say that about Tampa though.
I mean you can say they.
Have a solid line Seattle in the same breath, because I mean Gino's in the hell that old line.
Yeah, I think they're one of the worst offensive lines in football. But to me, those guys are closer to being damn near one man offenses than you know, like close to like a It's not like a Josh Allen or Lamar, but like, those guys are taking on insane workloads and they're producing in their winning games. So I just appreciate that. I just think that Donald and Donald, Golf and Hurts, in my opinion, are in the best offensive situations in football. I don't think there's anybody that has easier than those three guys.
Theo what's your tack?
I think one number I remember seeing from just the most recent Seattle versus Minnesota game that happened on Sunday, is that Gino is pressured like I'm riffing now, but it is like I think he was pressured fourteen times and took like two sacks. Yeah, and then Donald was pressured seven times and took four sacks. I think that is kind of the hidden difference between the two of them. Is like Gino really is doing quite a nice job when every single jop back is like a saving Private Ryan opening scene. It's pretty rough back there, and for him to sling it like he's slung it behind an offensive line that falls apart that easy. He is really playing on Dark Soul's hard mode. And really the number is compared well, I think Donald does have better numbers. But I think I like Gino more than Donald slightly.
I've been on that side. I mean I've been a huge Geno defender. I really was defending Gino this offseason. It's just a little bit too much with the mistakes right now. Man, It's just a few too many backbreaking picks. I still totally hear the case because like, yeah, I mean, dropping Donald from Minnesota to Seattle would be like the equivalent of going from Valhalla to Hell, Like it would be so much harder. But Donald has been really, really good and it's hard to say, like this is one where situation is a big factor, but also the production like has has been very different. Donald has been that good as of late, So I could go either way with this. Okay, so you know who's in your fourteen spot right ahead of Hertz? Oh you have Donald there right?
Yeah? Yeah?
So who's one spot above that?
Jared Goff?
Wow, Okay, let's hear it.
I mean GoF is like cool.
He can throw the digs between cover three the linebackers like split out and then there's that little window there and he can really hit that at a high level. But I think he's bagless. He's he's a running jump man. He's play action man in breaker Man. Party was in breaker Man last year and we all ranked Party in the twenties. And I've got golf here at thirteen. I love the confidence that he was playing with. He steps into every throw. His accuracy has been really notable. He hardly ever misses, he hardly ever gets passes tipped at the line of scrimmage. That's all nice stuff, But at the same time, I think he can throw you one sometimes by kind of the same thing with Tua, like expecting something to be open and it's not, and and he'll throw like kind of an obvious pick. I think Ben Johnson opens up a lot like a fake stumble and then he turns around and he throws a touchdown against the Bears. Dishonorable football there, if I do say so.
Myself, are you anti stumble Rooskie?
I don't like stumble Rooski. I think that they it's like the red Dead honor thing just went down for you there, like hold on.
But it's not though, because it's like kill. It's not like everybody stops playing like, oh my god, it's Jared Okay, he's stumbled. They're like, all right, we gotta go get the ball now. But the ball is not on the ground.
Why would you call it? Then you know that they're gonna let up and get their eyes peeking.
Look, well they're not letting up though. It's just like the most effective play action ever.
I'm not saying, look, you could call it a million times and if you win games. I'm not advocating for that to get taken off the border or anything. I just think it's dishonorable way to win.
What if? What if?
What if?
In NBA?
What I think is really dishonorable when like, uh, you know, like guys go and spy on other teams practices and stuff, and like they steal play sheets before they.
Get okay here, let me give you an example. Let me give you an NBA example, Like it was a whole thing a year ago or two years ago that Jose Alvarado would literally hide after buckets so he could steal inbounds from unsuspecting players. That's not against any rule. That's just deception.
Man. Do you think I love Do you think pick plays are dishonorable.
To some extent?
Yes?
I mean if your if your whole offense is pick plays, I'd be like, okay, this is assh.
The tush push dishonorable.
No, I don't think it's dishonorable because that one is just like that one might be the most honorable play actually, just because it's you just push the guy forward in a short.
It's no tricks. Everybody knows exactly what's going to happen and works. There's nothing wrong.
With it's just it's slightly it's at some level it's dishonorable. Think about if the whole offense was built on rub routes. It would be dishonorable.
Do you like hidden ball trick in baseball? Is that dishonorable? I think that's probably I totally disagree.
I think stumble is a little bit in the rules.
Within the boundaries of the rules, that's good with me. Man, you just out fox them.
It's it's fine. It's it's not not fine. It's just.
You just there's some bad karma I see with the football got there.
They might have to answer for it.
I will say as a Bills fan, like when Ben Johnson, down three scores or whatever, schemed up a touchdown to Dan Skipper, I was like.
All right, it might.
It might come back to bite you in some charmatic way. That's that's what I mean by dishonorable. More than like they shouldn't be running it or there should be like a rule against it. It's just like from a Carmatics standpoint, if you fake a fumble to score a touchdown, you might the ball might bounce left instead of right on a muffed punt.
And in the in the playoffs, and you know has.
Gone from not believing in momentum to believing in the Karmick force to payback on Ben Johnson for his greedy play Golf's.
And what's wrong with that? But anyway, I think GoF God.
This is all to say that Golf is in a very ideal situation, and I think in a vacuum, he's just the thirteenth best quarterback I would I I just don't fully, fully, fully trust him.
In some ways, it's.
Very similar to the Sam Darnold case. I have Golf in the exact same spot. I really like his arm talent. I think Golf is a guy that you can go back to the Super Bowl with. Obviously we've seen it already. We saw him go to the NFC title game year. This is nothing against him, but I do worry out a structure and I do that same thought exercise. Let's do the Seattle. If I put Jared Goff in Seattle, Jesus Christ, GoF might be the most sacked quarterback in the NFL this year. Like, it's really hard to gauge these guys because he is playing. He's a great play action guy. Man like he's on time, he's so deadly accurate. But when you can get him off script and you can get him in a hole, it's really hard to wipe that taste at a five interception game out of your mouth, you know, And it's hard to overlook that. And I look at other guys like Geno, for example, I just think they have more physical tools. They have similar arms, and I think he can do more with less. And so maybe it's not right to hold the fact that Golf and Darnold have these great situations around them, but I think that's how you got to evaluate them. So does that mean that you have is Golf a top ten guy to you? Carson?
Yeah, I actually have Golf at number nine. It's the highest I've ever been on Jared Goff historically, I think I would have agreed with you guys. I just think he's reached the level of pocket passing to me, where like he's right there with Dak I actually have a one spot above deck. I think that they are very similar in terms of, Yeah, they're not gonna be able to do much for you out of structure, right, because I mean Goff is pretty much a statue, right, And yes, absolutely he has lots of great stuff schemed up for him. But I think we've seen growth from him. I do think the mistakes you cannot discount the possibility of that and like he has ten picks on the year, he also has one pick in the last six weeks. He had five of those picks in one game. Like it's lingering. But for the most part, he plays pretty damn clean football, and so yes, he is in a good situation. But I just think he can let those throws rip over the middle of the field. I think that he's awesome on deep balls and he's so consistent there where, Like, yeah, I do view him as more dependable than even a Gino. And it's tough. If you put Jared Goff in Seattle, would I feel that way? I can't say for sure, But if you put Geno in Detroit, like, would he be as consistent as Golf? Would he avoid mistakes? I don't know. I think he will know. I think these guys are so close to me, like even nine through sixteen, there's not that big of a gap. But I'm really impressed by golf this year, and I think obviously the production, the efficiency pops off the page with situation is a big factory that he's an amazing situation.
What if I told you that Jared Goff is charted with a higher turnover worthy throw rate than Gino this year that according to.
That would surprise me.
Gino's actually pretty low. He's at twenty two is.
Not impossible, probably because he has the ball in his hands so much. Mm hmm.
Man, he attempts some throat.
He's at twenty two. Now if it's the red zone, it might be a lot higher. And that's what really is a killer sometimes with him, is he has thrown a lot in important situations when there's like a field goal on the board. I think that's what makes them so much worse, is like the picks that he threw out have has thrown have been so backbreaking. But I do think there's something to the idea that you know, Gino will get killed because of all the picks that he's thrown and the bad picks that he's thrown. Definitely, but I do think there's something to the idea that it's not as bad as the general public is probably thinking right now because he's so side.
That just surprises me, because, like I've been somebody who's argued that Gino is at the very least fringe top ten. I feel like he's made more bad decisions this year, and I feel like a lot of the picks are on him, and as you say, they are also in really bad situations, like he's left some points on the board in the red zone for sure, and they haven't been good on third down. It's close for me between these two guys. But I do trust Golf more right now. I do pains me to say I love Geno, but I also love golf. Actually. Okay, so who is next for you? Logan?
Yeah, I think we're all caught up to number twelve. I have ki Murray here, and Kyler was a tough guy to rank. It's been an up and down year for Kyler. Like there are some games this year that you just look at and you were in awe of what he's able to do. Right, Like early this year against Buffalo, you see that play extension and him getting out of the pocket and making stuff happen. It's just inconsistency and the reason I have Kyler over guys like Golf and Donald. When the play breaks down, Kyler Murray can do something. He can scramble and get out of the pocket. He can make throws on the run. Right. They always compared him to many Mahomes because of his scrambling ability at arm talent. I think it would honestly probably depend most on situation. Carson. I completely agree with the point you just made about nine through sixteen. It's like people are always gonna look at the top ten and that's how they're probably going to judge the majority of our lists who the names are. But it's not interchangeable. But it's very close between all these guys, and I don't have a ton of pushback if you have hurts right you know, in your top ten or right outside, we're Donald, they're golf, we're having great years. I just prefer Kyler Murray's individual play making, his ability to make plays out of structure. I think he's got a really good arm and kind of like these other guys that we're talking about this range. He's had some bad moments this year with the interceptions and some of the decision making stuff. So it's really close between all these guys. But with Golf and Darnold, I prefer his scrambling and play making ability to those guys. Although I do have Geno above him. I think Gino's got a better arm. I like his physical profile more. I think he's got some of that play making and I've got Jayden above Kyler too. I think Jayden's better decision maker, better at protecting the football, and I think he's let out probably just a better offense than Kyler's ever let out.
And so Scrambler dare I say as great as Kyler is?
I think so too. So Kyler comes in at twelve. He was one of the harder guys I think to rank on this list.
Who do you have a twelve deal?
I've got Lawrence te Law.
Oh wow, I forgot that we hadn't gotten a te Law for you. So why are you still so high on him?
Because I think Jacksonville is shitty like it's and I think it they're extremely shitty, and I think I mean, I made a video after the Browns game of like all the things that I didn't like about the play design, and then I had like Jaguars people text me like you're right, people in the in the front office.
Maybe good sign. That's always good sign.
So I've been on like the fire Dug thing all year, and I think like that will help because I think from the beginning it's just been a mess. And I think like their free agency was a total mess, Like they brought in Gabe Davis is the help you didn't like, Oh, bro, Gabe Davis gave Davis zero yards zero.
He's gonna be so much worse without Gabe.
That.
Don't even get me started on Gabe Davis. I mean now I just kind of feel bad for the guy because now everybody just knows that he sucks. But yeah, he's given them two hundred and thirty nine yards this season for his twenty million.
Hell, Christian Kirk has been like awful this year just in general, Like the amount of big plays that get dropped for him is just unbelievable. There's like a two minute cutup of like almost touchdowns that he had from last year. It's crazy they like let good defensive players walk for like no reason and just signed players who were like good against them for a game. It was just terrib just a terrible offseason in Jacksonville. And I think telaw his accuracy has been an issue and fumbles and negative plays have been an issue for him and eventually that has to get so much better.
And I.
It's hard to defend him as much as I do, but he also got better kind of as the season went on, and then he got hurt. He was pretty good for most of last year, and then he got hurt and kind of fell apart. I always think about how like him in Stroud's numbers ended up the exact same the Jaguars numbers, like on offense on a per drive basis, ended up being the same as Houston's last year. But by the end people were ready to, you know, throw out Lawrence in annoint Stroud this year. You see, like no one's quite immune to a really horrible situation or a horrible offensive line in Stroud's case, or in play calling. And I think, I think Lawrence has been suffering through so much of that over the course of his career, and I just am in love with the fact that he's it really just comes.
He's six foot six, he's got a.
Golden arm, He's super fluid and fast, and I think he's very aggressive down field and makes, in my opinion, good decisions in an aggressive way that which can lead to picks when you have bad wide receivers, and can lead to like bad moments sometimes.
But I do appreciate the way he tries to.
Dominate kind of snap in and snap out, and tries to test some windows other guys wouldn't try and I just have a lot of risk in the same way I don't like Baker's game or I don't like to his game. I just think that Trevor is like exactly what my quarterback should look like. So I'm just a big Trevor guy, and I think he needs to demand a trade out of Jacksonville or something.
Yeah, well, they got a fire dog, they got a fire press, and then I don't know, start fresh from there, get him a full year with Brian Thomas.
Brian Thomas and like not Gabe David. Gabe Davis is so bad. He cannot catch, he cannot run routes. He like he's he's so sloppy in the details. And Nate Tice had a good tweet this year where he posted like the exact same play twice, where like Trevor rolled out and tried to throw a cross or on the move, and on one the wide receiver flattened, and on one he drifted, and one looks like a dime from Trevor, and one looks like a horrible missed interception, and.
It's like, well, how could he ever be so accurate?
And then on one of it it's like, well, maybe the receiver just wasn't quite on the path that he thought. It's there's a lot that kind of goes into it, and I think all the details just have totally escaped the Jaguars receivers for you know, four years now, so I'm still I'm still a Trevor Stany.
We're still out here.
Gabe Davis is third to last and catch percentage this year.
Hell yeah, he's a monster. I think Tilaw absolutely still has it within him to be an elite quarterback. He's taking the hypothetical man a little bit far to I'm twelve, you know, like I'm comfortable with him in that mid sixteen seventeen range where I've got him, and I think the ceiling is much higher because I don't think his situation has done him any favors. But there were games earlier this year I was like, te Law, that's on you man.
Like, yeah, definitely one hundred percent. That he's been way too inconsistent. I heard, Yeah, Olie Connolly, one of my favorite analysts, compare him to like Eli Manning a while back, and that always always kind of stuck in my head as like maybe he just will never be that consistent, Like yeah, it may maybe it'll just never come to fruition.
I think it's way to say, but right now he's not consistent enough for me to have him up here. So actually, logan, like you, I have Kyler at twelve.
I want to have Kyler.
Higher than this. Like earlier in the year, I would have confidently said that Kyler was a top ten quarterback in that's sort of nine or ten range, because I do think he's so impactful for team offense with what he does as a dual threat. It's a good year for him, thirty eight hundred total yards. I think he's got twenty one passing touchdown to nine picks. He's incredibly gifted with his arm talent, with his ability to move. I just wish he was more consistent. Like I think that he is one of the more inconsistent players in this range, and I think, really that's a big reason that the Cardinals is a team were inconsistent this year. And I think he's got good weapons in place. I think that James Connor is awesome. The run game is super effective. Kyler is unequivocally a part of that, but so is Connor. I like the receiving weapons. I like Trey McBride. I like Marvin Harrison Junior, I like Michael Wilson, like I like the group in totality around him, and he led a good offense, but he didn't lead a great offense. So his case over Darnold's over a Baker, right, any of these guys you have in this range, especially like a Goff. Who I do actually have above him is Kyler's more of a one man offense. I think you put him in any situation and he can salvage it because he's just such a dynamic creator. But everybody I have above him, I just trust him more. As a pocket passer, I think is more consistent, and that's the reason that I have them above him. That includes Jaden. I just think Jayden is more efficient. I think he is more dangerous as a runner even than Kyler. I think he is a little more accurate. Kyler's got more of a raw arm talent, for sure. Those guys are very close. But I think Jaane's been more consistent this year, even with the little low that he had, He's been more reliable, and that's kind of my one frustration with Kyler. Okay, Eleven Logan, who do you have in your eleven spot.
Yeah, I don't want to spend too much time on any of the next three guys, because we've talked about them a lot. But at eleven, I've got Geno, At ten, I've got Jayden, and then at number nine I've got Baker perfect.
Wow, Baker at nine. I feel like we've already discussed that, but it does still step down.
I mean, it might not be pretty. I get that Baker is more mistake prone than some of these guys, but for the most part, and that's why I'm so high on Jordan Love too. With these Gunslinger guys that just make plays, I'll take the bad with the good, and I'd rather you be aggressive and make plays. So even though Gino, I know, can can throw soul crushing picks, Baker can do the same. Jordan Love can do the same. It's the other season ended last year. I'm gonna live with it. I lived, I lived and breathe through Ben Roethlisberger for a long time, and I'll tell you what, it ended up being way more good than bad, and so lived by the Gunslinger, died by the Gunslinger. I like what Baker and Geno bring to the table. I did think about having Jayden higher just because Jayden is so damn good at protecting the football and that is important. I might do that. I think I'm actually gonna do it. Yeah, I'm gonna move. I'm gonna move Jaden into my ninth spot. I'm gonna move Baker down to ten because I do prefer how well he protects the football. But that's the one adjustment I'll make. So I'll go Geno eleven, Baker ten, Jaden nine.
Okay, THEO? How do you go?
Eleven?
Ten, nine? So I've got Kyler eleven, Geno ten, CJ. Stroud nine.
Okay, so we have a CJ. Stroud appearance. I have him at number eight, Logan, where do you have him?
I have CJ at eight as well.
Okay, so we're all in the same range. Why do you have him here? THEO?
I just love everybody in front of him a lot, Like really, it's just kind of tough to slot everybody in, and then you you get to Stroud and it's like, well, he hasn't had the greatest year, and like I said, last year, like his numbers were more comparable to like Trevor Lawrence than like Joe Burrow.
This year or something like that.
So I'm like, when has he really broken into like the top five conversation? When has that happened yet? I just don't think that it has. I think he's kind of sticking around this nine range this year. I don't think there should be much hand ringing about him because even though it's been a bit disappointing, like Diggs got hurt, the offensive line has been a disaster. He could probably do a little bit more to mitigate that than he has, But I still think he's been pretty good.
Yeah. I agree, it's been sort of a mixed bag this season, a little bit of a disappointing sophomore campaign. Like the numbers aren't great, but he's just fighting such an uphill battle. The offensive line sucks, the run game's been bad, he's been down slow.
It's not that good.
I don't think that book is that good. And the receiver thing is going to be more of an issue now, obviously with Tank and Diggs both done for the year. I just signed, by the way, Oh that's gonna work out.
That's gonna be so done with Deontay Johnson, good luck, good luck.
If anybody can save it is CJ, and it is CJ through Jesus Christ, our Lord.
Yeah, Lamar Lamar couldn't.
Lamar wasn't in touch enough with Jesus CJ Is. I do just have a lot of faith in the guy. I mean, I still think that he's really good dealing with pressure. I think that he's not one of those elite creators out of structure, but he's a clear plus. He's really good, and I do think that he has rare composure and really does have that quote unquote clutch gene. Like he's just a guy who I trust to lead a big drive. He's so good from inside the pocket and he's good outside. So he is definitely not like separate from a Dack for example, Like I actually really thought about those two compared to one another. I think where he does get the edges in his athleticism and the fact that I do think he can do more when things go off schedule. But I think he's pretty solidly locked into eight right now because I think everybody above him is basically just a more dynamic talent. They have more overwhelming physical tools. They hit on more huge plays, and he had on a lot of chunk plays last year to be but there's just a higher ceiling right now with the guys above him.
To me, I agree with that. I don't have a ton to add on CJ. But I do think he's got a canon of an arm too, Like he's in one of the best arms, I think in football. And this year has been tough situationally. Now the teams can key in on the interior or the offensive line, they know how to game plan against them. And all the wide receiver injuries with Digs, with Nico, with Tank now it's it's just compounding. But CJ's really good at protecting the football. He's really efficient and I trust him. But I agree with you about everybody above him. I just think they're all different levels of playmakers, and that's why I prefer him to CJ.
Okay, So THEO who's in your eighth spot.
In my eighth spot, I've got Dak.
I do have Dak, And I think last year is doing a lot of heavy lifting, I think, and not just last year. It's not like last year was his only a good season. He's been at a pretty elite level since like twenty nineteen or so. Obviously, he was set the league on fireback in twenty sixteen. Then kind of was in a lull for a little bit. But since we were all like freshman in college, I feel like he's played at a pretty elite level. And I just think I don't want to be too quick to forget what he did last year. I mean, we talk about him compared to you know, golf, Well, how about golf has an elite offensive line. He has Monty and Gibbs. Not only does he have Aarman Ross Saint Brown, but he has like at least Jamison Williams just stretched the field on the boundary. Dak, he's a great pocket passer. He put up you know, a better offense or an offense is just as good as the Lions are now. He put up this better numbers than the golf as now, with no outside boundary help, with no run game. Sure it's totally true with Terror, like Jake Ferguson is his second best weapon. It's just him, him and CD magnet ball, And yeah, he just is a very ideal pocket passer. He's not too far off off from Burrow for me, except Burrow has been to the Super Bowl and Dak has not. But even then it's like did Burrow we can get into did Burrow play that well at that whole playoff run?
I don't know.
I just don't think there's like as huge of a gap between those two.
Oh, you think.
There is special.
That's the difference.
Burrow is so special THEO I said, I think Joe Burrow is closer to Dak Prescott than he is the Josh Allen. I actually regret that I just said last show that, like I walked that take back, because everybody's been coming at me for that. But I think that also came from two places. Number One, I'm extremely high on Josh Allen as an all time offensive engine. Number Two, I think I'm much higher on Dak than the average person. I mean, you're even higher on Dak than I am. But I think overall we're similarly aligned here. Like, I also don't want to forget about what Dak has done. It's just this year was rough and the situation was but some of his decision making was bad, and I am worried about the mobility getting worse and continuing to get worse.
But you're right, I mean, JA, I think he can have like a tom Brady style of play, though, like is tom Brady's mobility when he was forty four. Like, I think Dak's game can age like that, because that's kind of how he's been playing recently, even without the mobility.
I think so too. I think that's a good take because he is such a pure pocket pastor. But like he used to have a little.
Bit of a billion he did, He definitely did. He used to be one of the best out of structure.
Yeah, but even like if you look at last year compared to this year, I feel like I noticed a difference. So I think some of those victories and aging has just accumulated. Okay, yeah, go ahead, I'll shut no, no, don't you even say that. But we have been going for probably close to three hours, and.
It's you want to release in two parts.
I was considering it, but I think maybe this will just be our Christmas present to everybody, in our Hanka present to everybody, the longest podcast in the history of mankind. Logan, who do you have next?
I have got Jordan Love at number seven. At number seven, Love is one of my favorite guys to watch in the sport, like my quarterback's most fun to watch. It's it's the Big Four. I think it's you know, Mahomes Lamar, Josh Joe, and then it's Jordan Love for me, like Stafford Love. I I like watching Jordan more than I like watching staff Jordan.
Jordan Love clears Mahomes in terms of watchability for about Stafford.
I also think Stafford clears Mahomes and.
Burrow Mahomes is a low key bottom three.
I mean, actually I only kind of threw him in there. The three is Josh, Joe and Lamar for me, and then maybe Jordan. I just love the guy man, I don't, I don't. He is so much fun. He is if Mahomes didn't exist, Jordan Love might be the perfect quarterback man if the Big three didn't exist.
Okay, there we go.
I love Jordan Man. He's he's audacious sometimes and a little bit too audacious. It's like I said, the reason he can't be higher is because he just slings the ball so much where he will put it in harm's way. But every game, there's no quarterback in the sport that hits on more big shot plays than Jordan Love, and they swing games. It's like, that's some beauty about the Packers offense. Don't get me wrong, It's better than it's ever been before because they have a guy like Josh Jacobs in the backfield, but that offense can be sputtering for the whole first half, and then the third quarter he comes out and he hits on a sixty yard bomb to Christian Watson, or he'll hit on a fifty yarder to Dobbs and you're like, Okay, well that's flip the game on its head. I love that. It just happens that the six skies above him are probably top fifteen to twenty quarterback talents of all time. Like, that's the only reason that Jordan Love can't be higher than this is because all of those are All of those guys are such great individual talents, and I think all of them protect the football better than Jordan Love. So that's the only thing that keeps him from being higher. But Jordan Love is special. And refuse to hear any other opinion on him. If you don't like Jordan Love, I don't think you like football or Toyota than true bol.
Where do you have your darling baby Packers quarterback?
So I was I got him at six. Okay, he's a goat man.
He he he may put the ball in harms away. However, he might have the best sack avoidance. Excuse me, like an NFL history, he has a lower mahomes is like famously good at avoiding sacks.
What is it? What is he at?
Because lower sacrate than Jordan Love? He's the only guy?
Is he the only one?
Because because Jordan is at three percent and last year he was as a first year starter. Last year he was at four point nine. So two really elite numbers in a row gives him a career average that's just astronomical. Only Allen has been better at a void. The negative plays this year if you talk fumbles, picks and sacks, like that's where the hidden value of Jordan Love is is, Like, yes, he has thrown picks this year, definitely. Some of them were because he tore his growing up and week one and I was thinking he was going to miss the season and he played through it and like that was clearly hindering him. He's been turnover free for the last month.
Yeah, but uh, magic of toyota than even thought.
Are you familiar with the toyotathon theory.
I'm extremely familiar with Pablo Escoballs toyotathon theory. I think that it's hilarious that it's it might get Toyota Thon extended.
It ends on January sixth this year. I checked.
I think they're going to extend it for Jordan Love and he's gonna make Toyota like millions in profits. Is kind of where I think this is going to dovetail into. But yeah, I've got Jordan Love at six. Every time he gets blitzed, it's hilarious because he's most quarterbacks think I got to get the out fast. Jordan Love is like, I gotta make the free rusher miss and like throw it into the end zone. It's like, well, okay, dude, he's he's got a lot of Josh Allen particles in him, Like Josh Allen is an even evolved version. But from the moment he took over his Starter, like I remember tweeting, like in October of last year, like Love has more Josh Allen particles than I thought. And this is when Love was not doing that great. People were like, you're you're crazy for even uttering those two in the same breath, but it was it was really true. They're both there's just the ultimate just rip your heart out creators.
Yeah, well, I mean you've been on Jordan Love, right, so I think that that's a win for you because he's been awesome. Obviously, I have him at number seven. I actually think it's really close between him and Stafford. I do have a little bit more faith in Stafford as a decision maker. But that's not to say the Stafford doesn't also throw some bad picks where he's overly audacious, Like I think that's the one thing that you knock against both these guys. But Love is an explosive play machine. You mentioned the sackle rate is incredibly low, and it's the Toyota than so he doesn't turn the ball over at this time of year. He's cut out. Like the one question you have about him, I just think he's awesome. I think he is truly an excellent quarterback. But Stafford has been doing it for so long. He is such an unbelievable arm talent. As good as Love's arm is, Stafford's is even better. I mean, Stafford is up there in that tier one with Alan and Mahomes still, and I do trust him more as a processor of the game. I just think what Matt Stafford can do when it comes to executing flawlessly with instructure and then also making those just like what the fuck throws like. He's the one true creator in the sport in my opinion, who isn't like that sort of mover right? Who does it?
He does it with his.
Just if you watch a Rams game, though, they'll like zoom in on him making reads.
It's awesome.
He's like clearly trying to get people to bite, just with eyes of lot. I mean, the guy hit a no look pass to win the Super Bowl where he looked off Von Bell and hit a cup over the middle. So yeah, he doesn't have to like make the free rusher miss throw into the end zone that Jordan Love has, but he does.
He is just as difficult to deal with.
As a as someone who can just manipulate a second level guy.
He's incredible. I mean, he's the biggest reason that the Rams are the scary football team that they are. I mean, shot at McVeigh, shout out the offensive weaponry, but it's Matt Stafford Man scares the absolute shit out of me. Where do you have him? Logan? Do you have him at six?
I do?
Okay, shall we move into the top five, gentlemen, are we ready?
Okay?
Sir Logan, who's in your five spot.
I'm interested in where you guys are gonna have him, because I know this is a perennial debate every single year, where does he rank among the top five? I have justin Herbert. And it's interesting, right because now this is the down year for Herbert statistically, because he doing less than ever before. Because he's got a really great coach. It's the best defense they've ever had, It's the best running game and scheme that they've had. In general. It's also the worst receiving talent he's ever had, right because the first few years of Herbert's career he's handcuffed one of the worst coaches in football in Brandon Staley. But he's got all this receiving talent and he's putting up thirty tds to ten picks every year. And I still think he's got the second most passing yards by a quarterback in their first five seasons, just to Peyton Manning. The reason I prefer Burrow to Herbert because I think that's the debate that everybody points to, and some people will go Herbert has more creation, and that's why I want him. Joe Burrow is one of the best pocket operators I've ever seen in my life. And he's also just like he's a perfect QB man. It goes to bed at eight o'clock every night. He's a big fat meal. He's he just prepares differently like football is this guy's life. Quarterbacking is his passion. This is what he was meant to do. And he's a genius. And I just think Joe Burrow is one of the fifteen most talented quarterbacks I've ever seen. I still don't know if he gets enough credit for how great of a pocket operator he really is. I know everybody goes with the Drew Brees comparison to me, and nobody's ever gonna do this because he is an anomaly of the sport. The closest thing that we have to Tom Brady in the sport today is Joe Burrow in just terms of play style and how they operate and the things that they do with in the pocket and how they manipulate defenses. It's Joe to me. So I both of these guys are great. I think they're all time talents. I marginally prefer Joe to Justin and it's because of that pocket manipulation. But I could also hear an argument where you go, oh, well, Joe still has Jamar Chase and t Higgins and that aspect of it. So this is a nuanced debate. I've always been Borrow over Herbert, and I still land on that side of the fence.
Okay, THEO which side of the fence are you on?
I've always been a Herbert stan It just has been my thing, and I'm still gonna go at that here. I've got Burrow at five, Herbert at four. Really the top five is so clear. Yeah, and Herbert definitely has the worst statistical case of all the five easily. But it's pretty easy to explain why the best wide receiver he's ever played with is Keenan Allen a couple of years ago. It's just got Josh Allen has gotten to play with maybe the best wide receiver in the sport for a time. Josh, he got Stefan Diggs. Jamar Chase is maybe the best wide receiver in the sport. Joe Burrow has put up crazy numbers. Lamar has you know, Derrick Henry to be a force multiplier. Mahomes got to play with the two best receivers in the sport. Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelsey for a time, right, So why was that passing offense so good? Herbert just has not had any sort of situation where he can put up numbers like that. It just he can play as well as some of those other guys, he just can't put up numbers or wins as much as those other because you know, they got you know, the receiver, the football equivalent of like Giannis to throw to right. It just is it's a different situation. I actually think Herbert reminds me more of Brady than everybody else. I think that Herbert. When I think of Joe, I think of like he's kind of deceptively, so is Herbert, I guess, but like there's like some quickness with Joe, and I think like his arm strength, like it doesn't matter because he puts it in the right spot all the time and just sees the game so well. But like I don't think his frame and his arm is quite as much like Brady as like it is with Herbert, who's like six foot, like he's he's just an absolute mammoth out there, and that's kind of what Brady was. And then the other thing about Herbert that people will criticize. And it's also what criticized with Brady is like, oh, Herbert, he's a checkdown merchant. He's famous for throwing for the running backs. You know, Eckler was the fantasy QB running back one for so many years. Like Brady kind of had that mentality as well, where it's like he'll push it on field if it's there, but he would never turn down a good checkdown. And Herbert kind of plays like that as well. He's too big, he shakes off sacks. His arm talent is out of this world good. It's it's on par with Alan in my opinion, and just in terms of velocity and things like that. I mean the throw he hit against the Bronco is like falling down. Of course, Burrow just threw a touchdown falling on his face as well. Yeah, it's tough to pick knits. I've just always been on the Herbert side, and I just haven't really seen enough this year to ever change my mind. Like Herbert would have to like fall off or some in some way. I just want to see him with a real elite. I want, like Garrett Wilson to demand to trade there this offseason or something like someone who I think is really high end. Even Garrett's not as good as Jamar, but.
Is an absolute freak. And t for being a number two, is an absolute freak. So you guys have both had your consistent stances on this debate. I'm just the complete opostion that I've flipped a million times, and I'm going to flip one more year as that preseason it's a Burrow year.
It is a Burrow year.
Is a Burrow for Herbert five? Right now? These dudes are so close it's ridiculous. I mean, that's why I've flipped.
It.
Often does just come down to who is playing better in that stretch. And I do think that Herbert has been awesome. I mean, I think his ability to avoid mistakes has been incredible. The long, long stretch that he went on without throwing a pick, He's got the lowest interception percentage in football. Like that sort of efficiency and that ability to take care of the football in this offensive system is really impressive. Obviously it's not a dynamic offense, but I don't know how it could be. He's got all the physical traits. I think mentally he's very very smart. The one thing I do like about Burrow is I do think he's got bigger balls, and like you mentioned Herbert and some of the checkdown stuff, right, I'm good with it because I think he controls the game really well. But maybe this comes when he has better receiving talent. I do think that Burrow is a more aggressive player pushing the ball downfield, and it's like, yeah, he's got Jamar Yeah, bosting dudes asses, right, So I think that that's in T.
Who's like and T who's just a mis notably good, if like in contested situation.
Absolutely absolutely one of the best jump ball guys that you've got. So that's a fair point to make. I do think that Burrow's more accurate. I think that Herbert's got the bigger arm. I think that they're both honestly quite good as movers. Not in that elite tier, but legitimately good. I'm leaning Burrow. I just think the production this year is so ridiculously explosive. But like, if you put Herbert in the same offense, I think the production would be just about identical. I think their neck and neck as football players.
Yeah, I mean, and this is the best the quarterback position has ever been. Dude, it's so close with these two guys. Like, I don't mean hyperbole when I say that, Like I think that all the top six are top twenty talents of all time. This is it's special. It's special. What's going on with the QB position nowadays?
It is special. The one thing I will say about Joe, because I think there are some people Luwell want to argue him at three or two, is he's not the offensive engine.
I completely agree. That's that's the argument.
That's the thing with what those guys do is dual threats. With what they do out of structure, it's just on a different level. And those guys don't have Jamar, they don't have t Higgins. And yet the Bills have had a better offense than the Bengals every year of Joe Burrow's career. The Ravens have consistently had better offenses when Lamar is healthy. Like, those dudes are just special, all time great elevators. Truly, I've said THEO I don't know what your take is on this. I'm interested because I've said this to Logan. I think there's a strong case that Josh and Lamar are the two most impactful regular season quarterbacks in NFL history, because they just lead you to be elite offenses no matter what, with how constantly they stress defenses incredible.
I agree with that.
It's I mean, you could put them in any era and like Lamar is, I'm taking Lamar over like fran Tarkington, you know, like it's.
Just we can agree on that.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know and Lamar over.
Yeah, a lot of players in NFL history just in terms of like you drop them in an offense with a coach that has any idea of what to do with him, and it's just too much stress what they can do with their legs. It's just too much stress.
I mean the stats that I always recite, the Bills are the number one scoring offense since twenty twenty overall, and they've done that without consistently super impressive surrounding skill position talent. Obviously, this year everybody declared that Josh was gonna fall off, the Bills were going to fall off, and it's the best offense they've had, and it's been the best offense in terms of points per drive in football. And Lamar the Ravens score more than twenty eight points per game when he's on the field since twenty nineteen, and they score sixteen points per game without him, Like, it's just such a pronounced difference, and as good as Joe is, he doesn't have that right. The offense with Jake Browning was functional, they scored like twenty four to twenty five points per game. Obviously there's a big difference, but it's not to that level with Josh or Lamar. So that's why I feel that those guys are above. The reason I have Lamar at three is all oh. I think he's having one of the great quarterback seasons that we've ever seen, and I think he's the best he's ever been as a passer, and it's just been incredibly efficient there and is the greatest Russian quarterback we've ever seen. I do have a different level of faith in both Josh and Lamar, or in both Josh and Pat compared to Lamar when it comes to the postseason, when it comes to winning in multiple ways, when it comes to winning when you can't really dictate the game on the ground when you do fall behind, Like I'm not saying that Lamar is bad in those circumstances, but is he as good as those two? No, and I think the postseason resume reflects that. I think how things have gone when the Ravens have lost the Steelers game, the Eagles game this year, like they all reflect that there is more of a formula that Lamar needs to execute. And when he does, I mean, they're as good as any offense ever, and he's just about as good as any quarterback ever. But when it comes to Plan B, Plan C, that's where I prefer Josh and Pat.
That's why I would hear an argument for Joe Burrow over Lamar when it comes into a playoff setting. But for a regular season setting, I don't think it's close. And that's right lean on the dynam you were talking about, because it's not just the team offense that they're producing, right, Because both of these guys put up points. It's the way that Lamar wins that you're talking about. How he can go on these prolonged drives of seven eight minutes in a half that takes down the clock, they score points. It is this snake like vice that Lamar and the Ravens offense can put you into that Joe just doesn't have. And I think again, his rushing threat to I think opens up the same thing with Josh opens up so many things in the running game with Reid options. And it's different this year because Lamar has Derrick Henry. But that is the dynamic that I would hit on. But I think that you could make an argument that the two greatest offensive engines ever Lamar and Josh Man. It's a real argument that you could.
Make THEO, who do you have at three out of the big three? So to speak.
I've got my Hoomes right now at number three. I mean, it's kind of scary to say that. And I don't really think that he's worse than those two, but like he he is worse this year. Like, so that's why I'm putting those two ahead of them at this moment.
Like going into a playoff game, is that Homes? What you would have Mahomes at three this year? I think?
I like, maybe I'm an idiot, but I have like full faith in Lamar Jackson going into the playoffs.
I cannot did you have?
There's no statistical basis for this. I just think that the regular season is going to eventually is going to lead us to playoff results. I just think it's too good. He's going to get a wild Card game this year, which he never has really had before because he was hurt when they played the Bengals during the Sam Hubbard game. He's gotten the number one seed two times, so I feel like that is going to help him in terms of like getting his playoff numbers up and even last year, like if Zay Flowers doesn't fumble, uh, it's a completely different ball. I know that he wasn't at his best versus the Chiefs, but the Chiefs dispatched the Bills in that playoff run as well, you know, so.
It was a very different look from the Bills offense.
Than it was it was.
But I don't know, like they didn't have any running game in that game. They I think they ran it like what five times total, which is just six yea silliness from a game planning standpoint. The Flowers fumble. I I think Lamar is playing the best football on Earth right now.
I do.
I think it's a little bit even better than Josh Allen, especially after the the New England game. I think he has a slight edge this year and that's why he's just my number one right now.
He just he's hardly throwing picks.
A lot of the picks he has thrown have been like bouncing off receivers hands. His rush threat is just different than anybody else in NFL history. Like I would put him in tier one, and I don't know. As good as Alan is as a runner, I don't know if I put him in Lamar's tier as a runner and as a thrower. I mean, what's not to like this year? He's avoiding turnovers, he's hitting big plays. He I mean, the addition of Derrick Henry has just put everybody in such a blender that even though there isn't maybe an elite wide receiver here, it's still one of the most efficient seasons in NFL history.
And I think.
I think he's been unbelievable and I really really hope it's going to translate this year to postseason play. I get holding it against him, I do, but I just think people think they know and they get so comfortable, like just writing it off. It's like, oh, Lamar just chokes in the playoffs, But then what if what if one year he doesn't?
I mean, it's.
That's not the thing for me at all. My expectation is not at all that Lamar chokes. In fact, last year I thought, hey, he's so good as a passer. Now this is a different Lamar. It's going to be a different postseason for him. And then it wasn't. Like and that's only one game, so that doesn't define him at all. I don't think there's any doubt that Lamar is capable of going on a generational playoff run where he tears everybody apart and they're able to play exactly how they want, They're able to get up and strangle these games, and like he's just out of this world. That is totally possible. The thing is, do I think that is as likely as Josh or Pat doing the same? Not quite, And that's the difference for me. And I do think that the playoff resume is reflective of that. And like, I know that there are some people who sort of put Josh and Lamar in like similar conversations where they, oh, they haven't gotten it done in the playoffs, but like the difference between Lamar with his like sub seventy six playoff passer rating and six touchdowns, six picks and like having really struggled overall compared to Josh. We always talk about these numbers, but twenty six total touchdowns to six turnovers in the playoffs since twenty twenty, the Bills have been the number one playoff scoring offense in that time, He's averaging the most yards and touchdowns per game of anybody in playoff history. Like, there is just nothing about Josh's game that doesn't translate at the highest level to me, and we've seen that over and over again, and I think this is on a quivocally the best Josh that we've ever seen. This past week is a bad game. I thought it was a bad game for the Bills offense in totality. I thought the receivers really really struggled. Like I thought Josh had two pretty awesome throws to Khalios Shakir that he dropped one in the end zone. It was kind of a fifty to fifty ball. I mean, he had it in his hands, but that was a tougher catch. There was a beautiful play at the end of the first half rolling out to his right that Josh dropped right in the bucket and Khalio just like totally misjudged it, which is very uncharacteristic for him. But like that felt like the rare game this year where you're like, oh, This is in a team that has a conventional number one receiver, and in spite of that, again, they're the number one scoring offense in football in terms of points per drive. They've been incredible and third down they've been the best fourth down offense. They've been really good in the red zone. Josh, I think, is as good of a third down in red zone quarterback as we've ever seen in the history of this game. And they have been better taking care of the football than anybody else. Josh has done a better job of avoiding sacks than anybody else. He has been at his best in games where they've beaten teams that nobody else has beaten. If that's the Chiefs, that that's the Lion. Like I just think the control of the game that he has right now, the composure and the ability to limit negative plays more effectively than anybody else in football. Like what I've always said is, if you got a Josh Allen who was like the least turnover prone and was better at avoiding sax than anybody else, what's stopping that guy from being the best quarterback in football? And that's the Josh that we're seeing right now. So he's my Number one. If you have Pat number one, I totally get it. I mean I would argue it's like my expectation. I think that Patrick Mahomes peaked higher than any quarterback we've ever seen. Right now, I think Josh is better. I do. And if you have Lamar a number one, I get it because the MVP race, dude, I mean it's been so close to me. But like if Lamar surged ahead for you this past week because he was really good against the Steelers defense and Josh wasn't good, that's totally fine by me. I understand it because he is such a one of a kind threat. But like, Josh to me just has the combination of generation, nobility, incredible control of the game and it has translated to the postseason before and he's even better now. Just has everything that I want. So he's my number one.
I'm baffled. So we all have this is.
Actually really cool. We all have a different number one. Yeah, I like it. We all have the same number thirty two. We all agree that Drew Locke is the fucking first, but we all have different thoughts on which all timers number one. I love it.
Yeah, I've got Mahomes one I'm not ready to pick against him yet.
I mean, I get it.
I still think he's the grim Reaper. I wouldn't bet against him. There's still the number one third down offense in football, like and that's what I've always stuck by, is situationally, in a big moment, in a big spot, a big play. There's no guy that I want to under center more than Mahomes. But this is special, I think, and this has been a growing one. But like I said, I don't think the quarterback position has ever been better than it is right now. Man, in the history of the sport. I think we're spoiled.
Well, we just saw all of it. We laid it all out there one through thirty.
I'm sorry to keep you here so long.
THEO. God bless you, God bless you. This is our longest pod ever. Any final thoughts from anybody, I mean.
No, we've said it all.
We've said it all. Man, Well, THEO, thank you so much for coming on. I mean, this was a delight to debate Gardner, Minshew versus Desmond, Ritter versus Aid and Ocon and then I'll get all the way up to the top. But everybody go check out THEO. Go check him out on TikTok, theo Ash NFL. Go of course, listen to the Stay Hot podcast with all of our palas THEO and Matt Sponauur and Blade Kirk, and go check out the Pro Football Network. Theo's doing stuff for them. Just go support the boy. He's awesome, We love him. We've known him a long time and wonderful guy and an amazing content creator. So obviously he just gave us so much of his time he deserves now some more of your guys time. Hope you guys enjoyed this one. Hope it's a little a little source of Christmas cheer for you all. If you want more of our content, it's on our YouTube channel all of our NBA and NFL stuff. We'll be back the day after Christmas reacting to all the Christmas Day sports NBA and NFL. And if you want more of our content, you can find all of our trivia stuff across social TikTok, Instagram, at Nerd, sash, Twitter, nerd Underscore, Sesh. You can also see graphics. Think we'll get a graphic up of everybody's quarterback rankings. I know that that might have been a little bit difficult to follow. I doubt you exactly remember all of our rankings one through thirty two. If you do, you're a savant. But if you want a refresher, you can check out the graphic when we have that up to accompany the show. You can check out our discord if you want to join be part of our community. The link to that is at the link tree across our social media bios, and you can check out our merch if you want. That is also at our link tree and at breakingtea dot com. So one last big shout out to THEO. I already offered him a chance to say any last words. So I think that we've moved past that. We've yapped ourselves out with that. As always, I've been Carson Braber, I have been looking Camden letter rip THEO.
I've been theo ash and this was nerd Sash