Nerd SeshThe nerds are joined by Theo Ash of the Stay Hot podcast to give their NFC West predictions! They discuss why the San Francisco 49ers are still in position to contend but will regress slightly and debate whether the Seattle Seahawks or Los Angeles Rams pose a greater threat within the division.
Timestamps
00:00:23 - San Francisco 49ers
00:20:52 - Los Angeles Rams
00:35:48 - Seattle Seahawks
00:50:21 - Arizona Cardinals
#Volume
The volume.
Oh my god, how could he do that?
By don't watch.
What Charles Darwin?
The nerves is where it's at. Welcome everybody back into nerd Sash as always, I'm car Scrabern. Alongside me is Logan Camden, and today we are joined by a special guest friend of the show, THEO Ash, member of the Stayhart podcast now with the Pro Football Network. We've had him on many, many times, dating all the way back and we were just a couple of kids in college at Arizona State University. How about that, THEO. How far we've come. Great to have you here. How are we doing today? How is your Labor day?
Doing pretty well? Doing pretty well? I was down in the Great Sand Dunes National Park earlier today. We'll up bright and early, good little five am alarm set, got up at the crack of dawn, watched the sun rise over the dunes, and then sat in traffic for five hours on the way home. So you know, it's been a it's been a pretty typical Memorial Day or Labor Day.
No, no, no, nope, Labor day, Labor, Labor day, my bad.
Yes, this one is for the laborers, my friend, Logan, you're speaking now full time. We had you muted at the start of last episode, but we've decided to give you your full mic privileges back.
Yeah. Also, just on the record, you're a dick for that tweet. Dude, I was gonna just tweet it back, but I'll just say it here.
You're such a dick for that tweet. Yeah.
I've been rigorously brushing my teeth for three days now, so these are the first words I've said since our last pod.
Yeah, Logan, Logan hopped on the recording, just vigorously brushing away at his chompers. So everybody's locked in. Clearly, after the long weekend, we are locked in to talk about the last division in our NFL season preview. We are down to the NFC West, a very good, very interesting division, which is why we have THEO on with us today. Before we get into this, the big news to break out of this division over the last few days is that the Brandon Ayuk saga is over. Unfortunately Logan, the Steelers will not be getting him. No other team will be getting him into trade. He has signed with the Niners for four years, one twenty feel. What do you make of this deal? What this means? For the Niners. How this whole thing played out.
I think that it's a great deal for the Niners to get this done. I think that Brandon Ayuk is a super special player. I think that his elasticity running routes and the way he's able to set people up on the stem before like just leaving him in the dust is crucially important.
I mean, everybody knows what routy he's gonna run.
He's gonna run dig over the middle, and like ideally you just want to sit on that, but he'll sell you so far like he's breaking out that you kind of got a bite on it. And then he'll just cross your face and turn up field and he can, and he's kind of a bigger receiver, will hurdle you, he'll run through you, he can juke you out.
So he's amazing.
And I remember his his catch against the Lions in that NFC Championship game. It bounced off Fildor's face mask. He continued to track it in the air like dove for it. He's a complete wide receiver and they absolutely needed to bring him back. I think that he was second in EPA generated against man coverage last year. Deebo Samuel was like one hundred and thirtieth or something like that. So you need that dominant man man coverage beater on the outside to win those inbreakers and pick up yak if you're the forty nine ers. I don't think Ricky Pearsoll would have like slot into that role as beautifully as Brian and Iyuk did.
You're one, So yeah, it was important they brought him back.
Yeah, shut up, fellow ASU legend, Ricky Piersoll.
I hope he's good, Brandon. I you how about that? What a factory?
Yeah, I hope he's good. We got news over the weekend that he was in a shooting, so I hope Ricky Pearsoll is all good. Yeah, I used an invaluable weapon to have and like you mentioned THEO, I mean, just the guy that can win consistently one on one is you know, a big elevator in your offense, especially with all these other weapons. You just couldn't afford to lose him. The only ripple effect I'm nervous about with giving i Uke the money, and I want to be clear, like I'd pay him, you know, basically whatever he wanted. Again, he's he's that kind of you know, wide receiver, one weapon. But I'm worried just about big Trent Williams and getting his deal done and like how that affects him and if Trent Williams is going to be healthy, I think that has a big bearing on the niners outlook for this regular season and the playoffs as well.
Like, I think they need him.
That offensive line isn't really anything special without him, and you know, I think they need him to one to make a playoff push and then two to win a Super Bowl. So the only worry I have with I you getting paid is just also how they get Trent Williams paid.
Yeah, and that obviously is going to be the ongoing concern for the Niners. Trend, of course is thirty six, with which throws another wrench in any sort of big time contract coming his way. But there's just a lot of elite football players who got to get paid. Here, you have the highest paid defensive end in football with Bosa. Now you have one of the handful of highest paid receivers in football with Ayuk. You have one of the elite tackles, you have one of the elite tight ends. You go up and down the roster one of the elite linebackers, And of course a big reason that they have the ability to pay these guys at this moment is because they still have Purty on the rookie contract. And I think that's where in a couple of years they're going to be at a really interesting crossroads. Who knows how long, like a true super Bowl window can stay open for them regardless, But if there's anything enabling them to maintain all this elite talent, it's being able to get solid quarterback play potentially good enough for them to win the Super Bowl because the rest of their roster is so great, with of course the most valuable contract in football that being Purty on the rookie deal. I do think that the Niners had to do this because I think that if they lost Ayuk, that legitimate super Bowl window would close for the meantime. I like per but like THEO said, I don't think you're replicating that value immediately probably not ever, that you have from Ayuk. Debo is not as complete a receiver, not a true number one in the way that Ayuk is. So it's a lot and it is just a continuation of a very interesting trend league wide that we just saw with CD that we've seen really over the last couple off seasons of receivers getting paid significantly more than any position other than quarterback. There are six receivers making thirty million dollars a year. There's one edge rusher in Bosa, There's one defensive tackle in Chris Jones. There are no offensive tackles in all of football making that much, which I think is pretty antithetical to how historically positions have been valued. It's been establishing the perimeters of the trenches both offensively and defensively, after quarterback as your top priority. And also just with how insanely rich receiver talent is in the league right now. You think about all the impactful rookie receivers who come in last year, Uknakua, Rashi, Rice, Jordan, Addison's A Flowers, Jayden Reed, Josh Jowns, Tank Dell JSN. You can really go on and on. This year, eight of the first thirty four picks are receivers. So that's where I wonder league wide, if although it's a very important position, we're acting is though it's overly scarce when it's really an incredibly rich, deep talented position and I do think you can draft guys and get a lot of immediate production. But that is more of a broad take because I do think the Niners specifically are in a spot where if you can pay your elite player, you should do so because the window is right now for them. They were just on the brink of winning the Super Bowl. They could be right back there again this year. So I think that they made the right decision. And you didn't pay him Jetus money. You didn't pay him CD money, which I think would have been an overpay. I think the per year value is reasonable here. Okay, with that being said, THEO do you have the Niners winning the division and what do you expect from them this year after that Super Bowl heartbreak?
Expect them to win the division, but still to regress a little bit. When you're as good as they were last season, generating explosives at the rate they were, I mean, Purdy's numbers were astronomically good. It's hard to I think repeat that performance, especially not even really anything going wrong with the offense. But you know, there's always a little bit of brain drain. Like Kubiak, the offensive coordinator went over to New Orleans and just general luck of it, all right. But with that being said, there's a lot of teams that are at the top. Every single year. The Patriots won the division how many times in a row? The Bills have won the division five times in a row. It's certainly possible. So even though I think last year might be the peak of offensive production for the forty nine ers, I certainly don't think it's any kind of guarantee that they fall off in any kind of substantial way. So I expect more of the same from them, at least on the offensive side of the ball. On defense, it's a little bit sketchier than I think it's been in years past. They lost Eric Armstead, they lost Chase Young, they just traded a third round pick four. He was legitimately a good starter for them, even though he was a little bit underwhelming and kind of has a bad reputation as a second overall pick bust, right, he was still a good player, I think, better than Leonard Floyd. And this was a team that really struggled to stop the run last year, and he was very good at that. So I think getting north and south on this team, if you're able to run downhill, you can make it a game with the forty nine ers, just like the Lions and Packers did last year.
It's just do you have the.
After burners after that to beat them where they kind of came up a little bit short and the forty nine ers had him. So I expected to look very similar to last year. It's kind of a roll of the dice if they if they make it all the way or not, because they were very very close, right, I.
Mean as close as anybody has gotten against Kansas City, Right, I mean you take them to ot Brock almost has the game on ice and just doesn't make the throw. Yeah. I expect more of the same for San Francisco, and like you said, a little bit of regression. They go twelve and five last season. I expect them to go eleven and six. And you know, you talk about teams and what they're gonna do against the Niners. Defensively, a lot of it I think is still gonna be kind of track meet des can you hang with this offense?
I still expect them to be relatively explosive.
You're bringing back a lot of the same cast of characters, the brilliant mind of Kyle Shanahan McCaffrey I Yuke deebo Kittle, And.
A big part of this is that I really really do trust Brock Purty.
I know, Carson, you and I were pretty critical of him last year when people were trying to elevate him into you know, these MVP level conversations. I don't think Brock's a top ten guy, but he's top half.
Of the league.
He makes good decisions, he goes through his progressions well, he's accurate, he's on time, and he's got a little bit of that play extension and play creation with his legs. The defense I do expect to take a step back. You lose Chase Young, you lose Eric Armstead. They were plenished a little bit with Leonard Floyd and de Andre Campbell. You do have Hufanga coming back from an injury, which I think is big. Hopefully he's there the entire year. So I think the rest of this division got a little bit better. I think the schedule's kind of That's why I'm expecting the one game slip. But also I am worried about this offensive line, like Trent Williams has not reported. I know I just brought this up, but if big Trent Williams is not out there like that is a meaningful loss to this team, where maybe I could see them losing two more games than last year, maybe three, Like that is a meaningful loss. In the middle, You've got Feliciano, You've got Brendle, you've got Banks. Right, those guys are serviceable, nothing special. Trent is what you know anchors this line. It's what makes them special.
It's what you know.
Having a guy like Trent and Kittle on the outside when you're running a toss to McCaffrey, it's hard to freaking stop. Those guys are elite, elite blockers. And so that's just the one thing I have earmarked where if Trent misses time, if they can't get this contract thing ironed out by the start of the season, which is rapidly approaching, and I would pay Trent.
I know he's thirty six.
Again, like you said, Carson, the Super Bowl window, you don't know how long it's got to be open. You got to capitalize on it while it's here. And so I pay Trent whatever he asks. If he's out, I do think that opens up a sliver of a chance maybe for the Rams or somebody to maybe steal this division. But I'm still gonna take San Francisco.
Yeah, I think that they're a clear favorite, and I think they're probably still like the default favorite in the NFC. It's just not as strong a conference. But I do expect some regression this year, like you guys, not significant regression. I still have them winning twelve games. But like THEO was saying, I don't see how the offense could get better. I mean, last year was a ridiculously productive season from them. They were fourth in rushing efficiency yards per attempt, they were first in passing efficiency yards per attempt, and they do ad Ricky Piersall, who's another talented guy, but he's been injured throughout preseason. Now, as Logan mentioned, luckily he's out of the hospital, but they say he's gonna be out a month at least after the shooting, which is just terrible thing. And if you look at the collective performance and health of the unit last year, like it was pretty exceptional. I mean, Kittle was very hell healthy, Debo was very healthy. Those are guys who have been prone to missing a few games over the years. Same goes with CMC, who was exceptionally healthy. So everything came together really nicely, and I just don't see how Purdy improves. I actually think that he could improve a bit as a football player, but I don't see how his production improves because the explosiveness the efficiency was so ridiculous last year. He doesn't really have the physical tools to grow into and tap into some upside there. I think the one thing would be improving as a decision maker and at times, Logan, you mentioned he does have that play extension, which can be a positive, but also there are times where he gets a little bit reckless and he puts the ball on harm's way. I think he could get cleaner about that. But last year I think that he was more careless with the football than the raw turnover numbers would suggest, and it felt like the Ravens game was sort of a reckoning for that, where all of a sudden, every fifty to fifty turnover started going against him instead of going for him. So I'm not a perdy hater. I'm also not a pretty enthusiast like you said, Logan. I think he's a pretty average starting quarterback who's in the best possible offensive situation, the same one that made Jimmy Garoppolo produce in terms of efficiency as one of the elite quarterbacks in league history. I think Purty's better than Jimmy g but I don't think he's an upper rationalan starter. So the offense is going to be great, to be clear, it's just I don't know that it can improve from last year. And defensively, I think that they will take a little bit of a step back. I do think that they were already not great against the run. They were solid there, but you think about especially some of those playoff matchups, the Lions were able to run the football on them, the Packers were mostly able to run the football on them, and I think Eric Armstead and Chase Young to Leonard Floyd and Eliite Collins. That's a meaningful downgrade. I do like Leonard Floyd, but more as a pure pass rusher, and I don't think the pass rush will be quite the same along with the run defense. Dre Greenlaw also probably out for the regular season, so that makes the linebacking corps a little bit more of a question mark, even though they bring in Devondre Campbell. I do think the secondary is still awesome, like they're absurdly talented. Again, they're not gonna to me fall off a cliff whatsoever. But I don't see them getting better really in any way. And that's where I think they're more vulnerable because last year it felt like end to end they were the clear NFC favorite, they were a buzzsaw. And this year again they might still be the NFC favorite, but it's not by nearly the same margin.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I liked what you said about them staying healthy, Carson. This is a team that was kind of built on injury prone players, and we always talked about it on stay hot, is like, yeah, if they can stay healthy. Last year they were the third healthiest offense and the sixth healthiest defense, So that's pretty good.
That is pretty good.
They have not hit those numbers in any of the years before that, especially on defense. They were the twenty sixth, twenty ninth, thirty second, and twenty sixth healthiest defense the four years before last season, which who knows what the number could be. I think it's kind of randomly generated, you know, But yeah, for them to be so so healthy on both sides of the ball definitely up in the air. They were statistical outliers in terms of their overall offensive success rate EPA per drop back like legitimately outlier territory, which is good, but if you're an outlier, it's just hard to repeat.
You know.
Maybe they're maybe they're one point nine Z score standard deviation, but like it's it's not gonna be quiet as high, you know.
So I don't want to jump the shark if you want to save any of this for like Wednesday. But are they your guys's favorite out of the NFC. I think i'd have San Francisco probably two. I'm I've already said I'm taking Detroit out of the NFC. I don't have San Francisco going back to the title game this year. I have another team. But are they the favorite to you guys in the NFC?
Still, Carson, you go ahead.
I think on paper they are still the strongest, most complete team. Personally, when you're asking about my picks, I don't think I'm gonna pick them to go to the Super Bowl because I feel more confident in the Chiefs out of the AFC, because I think the Chiefs got meaningfully better remarkably. I think that offense now is a good bit more skilled and clearly the formula of defense plus Mahomes at the level he's at was already enough to win them a super Bowl in what was their weakest roster. I think this is probably the most complete Chiefs team. So I'm not literally gonna pick the Super Bowl to be run back. That doesn't happen, and that's boring. So for only that reason, I won't pick the Niners. That reason, in the fact that I do think they're a little bit weaker than last year, I do still worry about Brock going toe to toe with the elite quarterbacks. Like I think it matters that you have a quarterback who is capable to rise to that level, as good as your roster may be. I think there are those moments, those drives, those big time throws that you need, and listen, Brock got them to the brink last year. So I don't think that he is a guy who you can't win the super Bowl with. But there were shaky moments there. There were shaky moments against the Lions and shaky moments against the Packers, and he mostly pulled through. But I do still view that as a slight disadvantage against some of these other NFC teams, none of whom necessarily have eight plus quarterbacks. But who have guys who I trust a little bit more.
Yeah, it scares me to pick against the forty nine ers and to see everybody else pick against the forty nine ers of the NFC, Like Detroit.
It's gonna be affiliate, it's gonna be green Bay. But I'm a green Bay guy.
I think that Jordan Love is him, and I think they're gonna continue the success that they had at the end of last season, when when Love was putting up MVP numbers, I just I think that was the real them. So I think I'm going with green Bay, but I have I'd put the forty nine ers probably second.
That's interesting, the Green Bay pick. I think that the Lions are a very compelling contender, but I do worry about the defense. I do worry about the secondary. Like I think that we know what that offense is going to be elite. But that's a real question mark Philly. I do think is intriguing. It kind of hinges upon how much do they improve defensively from last year's disaster class and what version of Jalen Hurts do we get because I thought, obviously he regressed a great deal last year, and I think he really needs to have a bounce back season if they're going to be like a Super Bowl contender. But they do have the talent on that football team, so there's definitely competition in a way that again, I felt like last year it was clearer that the Niners were the top dog.
Yeah, no, I won one hundred percent agree.
But I've been on too many podcasts predicting not the forty nine ers to make it, and I'm like, and I'm one of them too, I'm one of them too. It's like, I can't. I mean, I think it's gonna be Green Bay. But I've scared because no one, no one wants to pick the forty nine ers for sure.
And the fact that you don't have them in the championship game, I mean that's basically been inevitable when they've been healthy.
Oh yeah, I think.
They're literally not healthy at all, so that doesn't count. A year before that, they're in the Super Bowl, Like it is exceptional, the consistent elite team success that they've put forth.
And I was just gonna say, the one thing that brock Perty does have going for him is that he does play in the NFC, where the quarterback competition is not everybody's not heading.
Shoulders above him.
If he was in the AFC, I mean, he's not a top QB in the playoff field whatsoever, he'd be at the bottom with whoever's in that field. And the NFC, you know, I think I take Stafford, I take Jordan Love, I take Dad, but that list, you know, I might take Hurts, but that list is not nearly as long as the laundry list it is in the AFC, and that's why I think they definitely have a better chance.
In the NFC.
But no, I'm gonna take I'm gonna take the second team in this division to make the title game.
Man, I like him a lot.
WHOA All right, well, Logan, please enlighten us because I don't think think it's clear who the second team in this division is. Who do you have then making this deep playoff run out of the West.
I'm taking the Rams, and I have them finishing on the same record as the forty nine ers, both of these teams at eleven and six. I have San Francisco winning the head to head battle. I have them sweeping LA so they're gonna win the tiebreaker and get the higher seed. I mean, I was really impressed with LA last season. It was supposed to be a rebuilding effort. You have breakout campaigns from Kyron Williams, from Puka Nukua who broke the rookie receiving record, and I'm expecting this to once again be one of the most explosive offenses in the NFL. They were tied fifth in offensive yards per play. They have the number seven passing offense, the number eight scoring offense, and the number twelve rushing offense. And they went seven to one in the final eight games. Like you know THEO you talking about the Packers getting hot down the stretch, I think the Rams are you know, more of that team we saw in the second half and we saw in the first half. And I think the most important thing is that they continue running the ball the way they did last year. They had one hundred or more rushing yards in seven of their final eight games. I think it is impossible defended team like that they can run.
The ball at that high of a clip.
And then you have still a top ten quarterback in Stafford with an elite receiving group. I still think Stafford's a top ten QB. He was one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. In the second half of the season. You know people were talking about is he's still you know, top fives, He's still top three. Regardless of where you have him, He's still one of the best arm talents in the league. He can make every throw in the book, and he's had a little bit of that play extension in creation.
I like the O line.
They signed Jonah Jackson, they re signed Kevin Dotson. Dotson was a bum with the Steelers. I'm not gonna put that on Dotson. I think that was more the Steelers don't know what they're doing with their offensive scheme. That's a Matt Canada problem. Steve Avila was good at guard last season. They're gonna move him to center. And I like to tackle duo Rob Havenstein and Jackson. Jackson's gonna be out the first two weeks with a suspension. The big question is the defense. I think you can bank them offense. No more Aaron Donald and no more Raheem Morris. But I'd like this front a lot. Kobe Turner and Byron Young had phenomenal rookie years. Kobe notch nine sacks, Young had eight. They add to it with the Florida State front line Jared Vers and Braden Fiskey. I'm worried about the back half of the defense, but I'm hoping that they improve. I'm worried because they traded Ernest Jones to the Titans. I liked him last year. The back seven of the defense is where I'm most worried about the Rams, and I'm hoping that they improve there with all the young talent they have, and they can turn these games into shootouts.
Over the middle.
You're looking at undrafted free agent Omar States started, I'm not.
In love with.
You're also looking at Christian rose Boo starting.
I don't know.
Man McVeigh and Sneaeder really sold. And then last season they were number twenty defending the pass. They lose Jordan Fuller, and they had some questionable guys. They had Cam Curl, they had Trey White, they had Darius Williams. Should be improvements, like you know, again, I think when people hear Trey White like, it's definitely an improvement from where they were. But I worry about him being healthy and what he can give you, you know, at this stage in his career. So I think they're gonna need to win a lot of shootouts. I think they need Stafford, Cup Williams and Phoka to be healthy. But I think this is gonna be a hard offense to keep up with. I think they're gonna be able to put pressure on the quarterback. I think they're gonna be able to stuff the run. All of my questions with LA come with the back seven. But this is a great team down the stretch last year and I expect them to carry it into.
Into next year.
And they were really close to knocking off Detroit in the wildcard last round. Like this was a super competitive team. And so I think with all the youth on this roster, there's a lot of room for these young guys to get better. And so I'm buying all of it. Man, I buy into the Rams. I think they're a legit, legit contender this year, and I thought about picking them to the Super Bowl.
I believe that much in this offense.
See in my in my record predictions, I had them get winning seven games and finishing last in the division.
Wow.
So let's hear it, THEO, why are you so much on the opposite side of the spectrum with LA.
The defense, the defense losing Raheem Morris, Losing Aaron Donald, now losing Ernest Jones, It's just gonna be tough. It was an okay defense last year, twenty first in defensive EPA per play, twenty third in HAVOC rate. That's pbu's tackles for losses, sacks, interceptions, things like that. I mean, they did way better than I thought they were gonna do, because when I looked at their roster last year, I thought it was Aaron Donald and a bunch of plumbers. My challenge to people was to name like three players on the Rams defense not named Aaron Donald, and like, I couldn't even do it right. I was like, who are these people? They definitely overperformed my expectations, but their defensive coordinator is gone, so it's like what can we expect? And as far as their draft goes, I'm very interested to see how how these new defensive linemen fit into the scheme because I remember last year. You know, this was a team that really loved to play the bear front three to four Michael Hoyt and Byron Young playing outside linebacker, and if teams wanted to spread him out, those guys were forced to kind of walk out into the slot play a lot of coverage. If that's Jared Verse, that's a bad scheme fit.
Like, I don't.
I guess I don't know exactly what they're gonna run because the season hasn't started yet. But Verse to me like very stiff, very much, just a downhill guy. I think you need him just rushing the passer basically on one hundred percent of snaps. And even then, like, man, he's he's powerful, like he's got the bull rush, but that's kind of all he has. That's kind of the only club he's got is reverse pancake, two hand bull rush, try to knock you on your ass. Like I think that these these offensive linemen in the NFL are just gonna sit on that. I don't know how effective he's gonna be. And then Fisk two like he's really small. I don't know if he's gonna hold up against the run. I just didn't. I wasn't super high on their draft. Now I hear what you're saying about the offense. Stafford one of my favorite players. Like the creativity within the pocket, the fact that he'll just like flick its sidearm like his wrist won't even move, and it like curves around, So I mean it's it's crazy.
Yeah, it is erotic.
Is it gets me hot? It gets me hot and bothered. Nikou is legit. I think that Cup is going to have his best season in a while, like goming into it healthy. Kian Williams was a dog last year. I like Blake Korum in this scheme. That's the thing that concerns me, like just as much as the defense concerns you and I make my hot take is like, man, this offense just might be very good, but I don't know.
I don't know.
I think there is some injury concerns with this entire offense. Kien Williams is constantly breaking his foot. Cooper Cup has always dealt with injuries Nicooh in college a little bit. It's why he fell Stafford as well, getting a little bit older, offensive line already dealing with suspensions and some injuries. I in this really tough division. I just don't know if things a line for the Rams this year. And That's where I'm at.
Yeah, I'm closer to THEO. And it pains me to say this because I really like the Rams. I love Matt Stafford. He is one of my favorite players. To watch. I think that he has been chronically underappreciated, and I thought that last year was some of the best football that he has ever played. I mean, he was sparkling down the stretch. He was just fantastic. But my concerns are not about the offense whatsoever. I think the offense is gonna be really good, maybe a little bit better than last year, even with a full season of healthy cup Understanding what they have in Kyron Williams, who is an excellent runner of the football, like, it should be a very good, borderline elite offense. I like the line. It's not an elite line, but it's a good group. They're checking a lot of boxes there. McVeigh is great. But I think the defense could be one of the worst in football, Like THEO said, like they were holding on to being okay last year. Their nineteenth in yards and points allowed per drive. Losing Aaron Donald alone is massive against the run, in against the pass, like this is one of the greatest, most impactful defensive players we've seen in the history of this sport, and I do think that the is now a real question mark. I also think Ernest Jones, I mean, if you were going to look at who was the next most important player to this defense last year. You could really make a strong argument that it was him just being an extremely versatile defensive player, very crucial to the entire scheme. And like THEO says, we don't know how much the scheme will change this year. We don't know how much the Morris loss will affect things. But I don't like losing Raheem Morris either. I do not like the linebacker situation. I love Trey White, He's one of my favorite football players of the last decade. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any reason to expect that he will be a plus starter now at his age, having already regressed some now having torn his achilles and ACL like, it's just brutal, man, It's just brutal. So I don't know that he is a solution at corner. So that's what it comes down to. I think you're looking at a very good offense and a very bad defense, and I think that they basically cancel each other out in a really tough division to make you a pretty average football team. So I have them winning eight games. I was between eight and nine. I don't see that NFC Championship ceiling. I don't see that Super Bowl ceiling, just because I really think the defense is far away, and I think it's gonna take a meaningful, big step back from where they were last year, which was already mediocre.
Yeah, I hear both of you, guys.
My final piece one, Aaron Donald is an irreplaceable guy on defense. I mean, I think, for my money, I think he's the second greatest defender in like NFL history. I think one is Lawrence Taylor, and then I think it goes Aaron.
Donald to have one.
Like how how remarkably healthy and consistent Donald was, where every year you could pencil him in as the best defensive tackle in football, so impactful against the runs, so good rushing the passer from the interior. Like I mean, you're talking about, like, you know, me and Joe Green kind of dominance, like greatest defensive tackle of all time and that I.
Come on, now, come on now, Me and Joe wasn't putting that sort of pressure on the podcast.
That's just I'm saying. I think Aaron Joe Green is number two.
Aaron Donald's number one.
I agree, But you're acting like me and Joe couldn't the Steelers weren't ship until Mean Joe showed up.
I'm not acting like anything. I'm saying Aaron Donald is the best interior pass rusher ever. I agree, Jock Man, When did I say that? Bro, you cannot put anybody. Listen, listen, listen. If you're gonna talk about disrespecting the old guys, you know that I'm the last person you want to target. I'll give love to Merlin olsen Man. All right, we'll put him in the top five.
But Aaron, Aaron Donald is and it's to have that kind of success also in the modern NFL. And the biggest thing, too, is the gap that was between Donald and any other defender on planet Earth during his tenure. Right, you can look at like JJ Watt, you know, I think you can go TJ. Those are guys that are coming for the crown, but there's still a gap, in my opinion, and you can't replace a guy like that. He's an alt and Ernest Jones. I just don't understand the trade value in the NFL, man, I never really have the fact that this guy broke the Rams single season tackle mark last year.
He's all over the field.
And you get back up, you give the Titans a conditional sixth round pick and then get a fifth round pick back, Like, it just sucks losing a player like that for such minuscule value. So they're really big losses. And I don't know this division. I'm gonna be honest with you guys. Was I think this and the AFC South, for me, were the toughest to predict. And there's just a level of trust I have with Matt Stafford that I don't have with other quarterbacks in this division, and that was the deal breaker, right. I have a lot of questions about the Cardinals. I have a lot of questions about the Seahawks. I think I know what I'm getting with this Rams offense in Matt Stafford, and that's what did it for me. But I'm worried, man, I'm worried about this defense a lot. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't.
A McVeigh as well. I mean, he's just in it all the time. It's Lafleura. McVeigh and Shanahan have been in the NFC Championship game like seventy five percent of the time since twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen.
I can't remember the exact year. I looked it up.
At one point, that's the same percentage as like big Ben, Brady and Manning in the AFC years ago. Like, I think that those three are just kind of have that level of juice to them where they can kind of will.
Things into existence.
So it definitely scares me to predict the Rams and McVeigh and Stafford so low. But man, like you said, it is a really tough division, and I might have a little bit more faith in like Gino and Kyler than you.
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Well, let's talk about it. Theo. You said that you have the rams lastness Division, So who is the second best team to you?
I got the Seahawks. I really like the Seahawks running back. An old take which was that the Seahawks are going to be some powerhouse. Last year total misfire, like as the disaster they missed the playoffs. We're running it back, you know, do over. I think that Gino Smith is as good as now as he was in twenty twenty two. I think that the main problem that the Seahawks faced last season was ten different iterations along their offensive line. I think early in the season they kind of struggled to get their weapons all involved to the level that.
They could be.
It was a lot of screens and underneath stuff for JSN. I think a little bit later those things kind of got figured out. Their defense completely collapsed. They were terrible compared to their talent level. But I think Mike McDonald can fix that a little bit.
I don't know. It mostly just comes down to faith in Gino Smith.
I think when you've got a franchise quarterback, you can always project above average offensive results at least most.
Of the time. And I think that Geno Smith has the pocket presence.
The accuracy the football iq to be regarded as one of those franchise guys. I mean his game against his game against Pittsburgh last year was I know they lost that game, but Gino is balling and they just couldn't tackle anybody.
Now will they be able to tackle anybody this year?
I don't know, but I think that McDonald has a lot to work with. Jaron Reid, Boye Mafe, I know it Chennon Nuos, who's banged up, but he'll be back eventually.
The rookie Byron Murphy. The second.
I'm forgetting some Leonard Taylor or Leonard Taylor now Leonard Leonard Williams best defensive lineman that they've got.
It's just a deep group.
And last season I was wondering, like, how are the Ravens gonna get pressure rushing for they got a Dafeo Way, they got Kyle van Noy, Mattapique hadn't broken out yet. Michael Pierce is like, is this gonna have any kind of pass rush? Mike McDonald was able to design it so they were able to get bodies in coverage and generate pressure on the quarterback, manufactured pressure on the quarterback. I think he's gonna be able to do the same thing with the Seahawks front seven and on the back end, they have some pieces that I like Witherspoon, Reek Woollan. The safeties were a little bit rough last year. I won't lie like the core of this defensive linebackers in safeties I am worried about. But I think there's enough here that an elite defensive mind can turn things around. And I think the offense and Gino Smith wasn't as bad last year as people think. I think they're due for a bounce back.
The defense is the big question with me, and I hope Mike McDonald can figure it out. You mentioned that Steelers game and we ran the ball down the Seahawks' throaty Seahawks last year had the number twenty seven rushing defense, and this is what opposing teams did to them just rushing two than three hundred and fifty two rushing yards in twenty four TDS.
Atrocious, I mean abysmal.
They had twelve games where they allowed one hundred or more rushing yards, and they had three games where they allowed two hundred or more rushing yards. They lose all their starting linebackers. Bobby Wagner's in Washington, George Brooks is in Miami. Buffalo's Tyroll Dodson steps up. You've got Jerome Baker as well. The secondary. I do like the cornerback tandem here. I love Devin Witherspoon. I loved him out of the draft. I thought he should have been He was my pick to win Defensive Rookie of the Year. I thought, I mean his ability and coverage, how good he is as a tackler.
Like that guy's a playmaker. I like Greek.
I like what we saw it to Michael Jackson last season. I am worried about the safeties. Julian Love and Racheon Jenkins scare me a lot.
Yeah, and so.
I just think it's a lot to think that Mike McDonald. I know he's a brilliant defensive mind. He's one of the best in the league. I have the Seahawks and the Cardinals finishing with the exact same record.
I have them both going seven to ten.
I have the Cardinals finishing better in the division, so the Seahawks are actually last.
For me out here, I.
Just think it's a lot to ask Mike McDonald to completely turn this defense around in one season, and he might do it.
I'm rooting for the guy on the other side.
I just I wrote down here in my notes. I think Geno Smith is a thoroughly mediocre quarterback. I do not think he's a franchise guy.
I don't know. I'm I don't think Geno's all that.
I do think he is surrounded by elite skill position talent Walker and Sharbonnay in the backfield dk jsn and Lockett on, you know, for wideouts.
But with that, I'm really scared about this offensive line.
You have a brand new interior offensive line Lake and Tomlinson Christian Haynes. That scares me. I think the interior offensive line is gonna be bad. I think they might be able to get pressure home on Geno and so I think you're looking at him to make quicker decisions to get through his progressions faster. I don't know if they're gonna be able to run the ball as effectively. And then I just think this defense is coming from a really low point. If McDonald can turn the defense around, I think there's enough skill, position talent to where the Seahawks could make a playoff push. That being said, though, I just think it's a lot to ask, and I'm just not as as big a believer as in Gino Smith as you guys are.
Oh, I believe in Gino. Logan and I had a debate a few weeks ago. He said he would take Russell Wilson O Virgino. At the time, he's already gone back on it all.
I would take Baker O Vergino. Though I'd take Baker.
Well, you love Baker, Listen. I won't even push back. I know you love Baker. I would take Gino, but I don't want to take away your corked up white boy from you. But again, I'm closer to THEO here. I have the Seahawks is the second best team in the division. I have them winning ten games, I have them in the playoffs. I think that this is a really promising team when we talk about the defense, because I do think that that is probably the bigger key. I think that this offense is clearly very talented. I think that from where they were at last year, but the defense is where they really struggled. Logan, you talk about not being sure that Mike McDonald can come in and fix everything. Do you think that there was a defense in football last year that underachieved their talent more than the Seahawks. No, so that's what I'm thinking.
Probably the Eagles.
But oh that's a good point. Okay, the Eagles, then I think the Seahawks those are like the clear top two choices. So from that perspective, I'm not like Mike McDonald has to come in here and do some sort of miracle working, spray the Holy water on all the boys right and save this defense. Like he just has to get them to play up to their potential. And I absolutely think that he can do that. And that's not to say that it's like a complete perfect defense, But I do like the secondary overall. I think the safety is not great, but okay, I think the corner place should be obviously a massive strength for this team. With wolln and Witherspoon and uh, I think when you look at the linebacking corp, Jerome Baker solid, Dodson is solid. He's not good in coverage. He allowed a passer rating of one h nine when targeted last year, but just better than a physical that's the thing. Like, I know you're a big anti Bobby Wagner guy the last couple of years THEO. I don't think that that's a big loss. Like I look at the linebackers and I go, they weren't great last year, They'll probably be okay this year. And I think a full season of Leonard Williams in this defense is huge. I don't love the front around him, but I think that there is much more talent on this defense than the results last year, which like, yeah, say that they were one of the worst defenses in football reflected. And I do like Mike McDonald a lot, and so I think that there's gonna be dramatic improvement in the defense, and then the offense I do think should be good. I'm a genal guy. I think that he checks a lot of boxes, he avoids sacks, he's got good arm talent, he's a beautiful deep ball thrower, we've seen him hold up twenty twenty three, he was really good against the Blitz. Just overall, over the last couple of years, he's been one of the more efficient passers by yards per attempt, doesn't turn the ball over too much. There are some decisions from him that you would like back. But overall, fifty two touchdowns to twenty seven turnovers the last couple of years, pretty good, accurate. Said like, the league is so stacked that I'm not even necessarily going to confidently say that he's an above average starter. But here's what I will say. If we were ranking the quarterbacks in this division, and if I were starting from scratch, I would take him over Brock Party. Do you guys agree with that?
I think I might like Like I like Party a lot, I'd probably take Brock.
Okay, I think I think i'd take Gino. I think I think he's one of the most accurate quarterbacks in the entire league. Last year, his pressure rate was forty point eight percent. That was the fifteenth percentile. That's bad. His sack rate was five point eight percent, that's seventy first percentile.
That's good.
So under a lot of pressure, he was able to manage the pocket. None of his stats were really eye popping last year, but very average EPA per dropback, average yard per attend, even a bit above average. I'd say seven point three. That's fine, didn't really turn the ball over, remained explosive. He can scramble around like he's not a running corps, but he can move a little bit like. I think that Gino's got everything that you're looking for outside of like the fact that he was a backup for such a long time. Twenty twenty two happened, it seemed like a fluke, and then I think this year it felt like a crash back down to Earth. But I really think it's the offensive line that that collapsed and not Gino.
I think I would take Gino.
I think that if you are looking at like the sort of one year wonder.
You guys would hold up not to cut you off. You guys would take Gino over. Would you take Gino over Kyler?
I would not take Geno over?
Okay, Okay, I think they're very similar.
I might interesting. I'm interested, very big fan. I'm a very big fan of Gino Smith. I think he's one of the top pocket passers in the today.
I think Kyler's rushing ability is so game breaking, and I do think that all the arm talent is there, Like he's not as good a pocket passer as Gino, but I think that his raw tools to me outweigh Gino's advantage there. But it's not a big gap. I mean, I think all these guys, like, off the top of my head, they're somewhere between like the fourteenth and eighteenth best starting quarterbacks in football. All three of these guys, I think they're really in the same tier, which is why I think it's an interesting conversation. But I like Gino's tools. And you mentioned Theo like the yards pretept. Ninth in football last year. In this situation with this terrible offensive line crumbling around him, the sack rate is super impressive. Now the offensive line isn't necessarily gonna be that better. He's concerned, like it's still gonna be really bad, but I believe in him. I think the receiving cores is excellent. I like Walker and Charbonney as a duo in the backfield. I do like them. Adding Connor Williams at center for Miami. I still think the line sucks, but I think it could suck, you know, fifteen percent less than last year when it was just abysmal.
If they have the defense improvement, yeah.
Literally, that alone would be an improvement. So I am optimistic about the Seahawks this year, and I think it hinges on believing in Gino and believing that this defense is going to take a real step forward. Logan any final thoughts before we move on.
I mean, I've just been thinking, I don't disagree with you. Guys make good arguments, and in a way, what this kind of does remind me of is you guys are right. Like, it's not a completely talentless defense. I could see this team being like the Bucks from last year, you know what I mean, average quarterback, bad line play, good weapons, and enough talent on the defense to where you can get by and maybe get even carried some games by the defense. So I think they're gonna be around five hundred. I would be really, really surprised. I'll go ahead and say it. I would be shocked if the Seahawks made the playoffs. That would stun me a little bit. I think I would be shocked. But the one thing I wanted to add though, is there is merit.
Man.
I feel bad for quarterbacks who kind of get drafted early and then are discarded after playing in really bad situations. And Gino is kind of a testament to sitting for a while learning and getting better in the dark.
You know what I mean.
You don't actually have game footage of the guy getting better, but even you know, I'll shout out a Steeler like Mason Rudolph, you see sits for four years basically in between his starts where I hated him, and he seemed a lot more composed. A lot happens, you know, and I think there are more guys that maybe you know, deserve more opportunities.
And can you know Donald is going to have that opportunity this year?
Yeah, and Donald played his best football like on the Panthers, like the last stretch of time that we saw him. He took over for Baker, who coincidentally has also kind of going through the same thing. But then you know Donald after years where where Robbie Chosen was his wide receiver one and and he was the youngest starting quarterback basically ever on the Jets, he shows up and starts trending in the right direction way late. I don't know if it'll ever be great, but like, yeah, they can. I'd rather have a thirty year old than a twenty one year old a lot of the time, Like, I don't care who they are, so.
That's fair, that's fair. I do think Donald is probably set up to have his best season ever, Like that's fully what I expect. I still think Donald sucks though, at the end of the day, I think that this year for Donald is going to be more of a testament to the fact that if you put a capable veteran, which, to be fair, is what we're talking about, but in a good offensive situation, like yeah, he could not mess things up, but you're never gonna pay him, whereas Gino Baker, these are dudes too. You're not gonna want to pay fifty million like we're seeing, but you would pay thirty million. You would pay what Baker just got this past offseason, and you would invest in them as your starters. And that's what I was saying theo earlier before Logan asked the Kyler question. Well, you were talking about with Gino, and there's the perception like he fell off a cliff. I think a lot of people did expect him to be a one year wonder and there's sort of that preconceived notion than that, Okay, he's gonna collapse, and his production wasn't what it was the year before, and he wasn't as good as he was the year before. But I would argue that once you're hit with like that one year wonder tag, it's actually pretty impressive when you can mostly replicate the results. He wasn't as good, but I think he pretty definitively proved that, No, that was not a fluke. This is a at least average starting quarterback, and I think that bodes well for him, and I think that bodes well for the Seahawks. All Right, we're gonna wrap up here with the Cardinals. Logan. You actually none of us have them last in the division, ironically, but they're the last team that we're getting to, Logan, what's your expectations for them this year?
Yeah, so I have them going seven to ten.
Oh wait, no, I do have them last in the division. I have going seven and ten as well.
I think the biggest question is what we get out of Kyler Murray and how much he can really carry this team. I think they're equipped to be better than yours previous. I like the rushing offense. They were second in terms of yards per a tenth last season with James Connor. You add Trey Benson into the fold. Hopefully he can be a little change of paceback can releave Connor, you know, be a nice tandem out of the backfield. I like the receiving corps. You bring in Marvin Harrison Junior, got Trey McBride, Greg Dortch, and outside of fro Holt in the you know, center spot.
I like this offensive line.
I think they've got a franchise tackle duo in Paris Johnson and Jonah Williams. The big question is gonna be what they can do to improve defensively. There's a lot of turnover, but this team was number thirty defending the pass last year, number twenty.
Nine defending against the run.
They had the third fewest sacks in the NFL with thirty three. They were thirty first in pressure rate. I think this front, quite frankly, is gonna suck. I don't think they're gonna get a ton of pressure on the QB. I don't think they're gonna be able to defend against the run. I do like the secondary. I like the safety tandem with Buddha Baker and Jaylen Thompson. They add in Sean Murphy Bunting. I don't know who's gonna start in the cornerback two spot. I think that's a little bit shaky. So I think this team is going to have to win on the back of their offense, right. I think the safeties in this secondary can keep you know, defenses from or excuse me, offenses from having explosive plays. But I don't think the front seven is gonna do them any justice. The thing I'm worried about with the Cardinals is them just slowing starting out slow. They have the Bills, Rams, Lions, Eagles, and Packers in the first.
Six weeks of their schedule.
Yeah, and that's just really tough when you have a lot of question marks about this defense. But Jonathan Gannon is, you know, supposed to be a defensive you know, mastermind. So I think this is gonna be a real test man with limited talent across this defense, seeing if this team can improve whatsoever. So I think this is a team that's gonna be carried on the back of their offense. And they were in games last year, you know, they did lose five to one. Score games last year. So I think they're gonna be competitive, but it's gonna be Kyler that is gonna have to will this team to victory, and this is gonna be on the back of their offense. I think this defense could be close to the bottom, like a bottom five unit across the board.
It's just there's not a lot of talent here.
No, no, there's not.
It was them and the Commanders were the two worst defensive units in the league last year. The Commanders spent a ton of money in free agency bring people in. I don't think the Cardinals did quite the same. Right, they brought in like ballall Nichols, I think, and some sealist free agents.
So I don't know what the problem is going to be.
And I know last year Ganning got the reputation is like, well, he's keeping them scrappy, like it's actually.
Better than you'd think.
Then you look at the numbers and it's like, bro, they're dead last and they do nothing well, Like I don't know how scrappy they are. He would he would rush three and drop everybody else into coverage and like pray to God that they didn't hit a sixty yard bomb over the top, like Okay, like you can't rush the passer now, and they're still just holding the ball and finding the holes in the zone. So I think you can expect a lot more of that. I think Robinson, their rookie, is going to help him against a run. They desperately need some just grown ass men up front, like and is what Robinson is just huge length. He should be a glass eater stopping the run. But again, like you said, Logan, he was rushing the passer here. Maybe Exavier Thomas, the rookie, has some potential. They've got guard deck who I thought I had a great season last year and then you look at the numbers at the end and he has seven and a half sacks or six and a half something like that, So it's.
Like, what is his upside?
Really? They will need a ton of interceptions to be a good defense, Like they'll play quarters, put a roof on everything, jump everything with some ballhawks. Maybe that's how they get it done, but it's a tough thing to bank on. I feel very similarly about the Cardinals as I do the Rams. I have a lot of faith in their offense, but just not a lot of faith in the defense. And but there is something to be said for how good this offense. I think that they are like Marvin Harrison junior elite elite prospect. I think he's exactly what Kyler needs. When Kyler came back, the results weren't too terrible. They were actually a top ten offense overall after Kyler's return, mostly based on the rushing offense, which.
Will be great to beat the Steelers.
You know, they beat the Steelers, beat the Eagles, although that wasn't saying my by the end last year. True, but they were a great rushing attack. Petsing did a phenomenal job. It's very varied with what they run. Zone gap scheme with Pullers, read option with Kyler right, you can twist defenses and knots. And then Connor is such a tackle breaker, and so is Trey Benson. Like those two are going to be problems. And then Kyler last year he hardly focused on the sidelines at all. He had no one that he wanted to take shots to at the perimeter. You'd think that would be the opposite of what Kyler would do.
Right.
Kyler is short, he struggles a little bit over the middle of the field, but he was focused on kind of those auxiliary targets, Trey McBride in the middle of the tight end, Greg Dortch had emerged kind of as his favorite target. I think that Greg Dortsch is a really good player that's going to slot in better as a wide receiver three than a wide receiver one, you know. So, I think the addition of Marvin Harrison is going to cause an already good offense to the very least sustain Like I think all the pieces are going to kind of fall into place with Marvin, things are going to be good. I like Petsing a lot more than Kingsbury. I think it's going to be an offense good enough to keep them in the hunt, but ultimately I do think the defense will sink them.
We all have a very similar outlook on the Cardinals. I wanted to get a little froggy here. I wanted to see if I could pick them to not be last in the division, to win eight or nine games, because I do like the offense and logan. You've been touching on this for a while now. It does feel like Kyler has definitely become underrated. I think that there's a lot of resentment towards him because he likes the game so much. Like, I don't know why people dislike Kyler as much as they do because he was the number one overall pick, and I guess just great expectations come with that no matter what. But when you think about the Cardinals' success in twenty twenty, in twenty twenty one, the last couple of years that we've seen a fully healthy Kyler, like, what's it been on the back of It's been on the back of him, overwhelmingly him taking these offensive units. They'ren't super talented to produce at a really high level to give you twenty five twenty six points per game, and he's doing that with his legs. His play extension is raw arm talent. He's greatly enhancing your offense in every way, doesn't turn the ball over too much. Like I'm very high on Kyler. I do think that he's a really good, above average starting quarterback. And that's the guy who I expect to see, the guy who who we saw over those fully healthy seasons. And I think that he played well last year theo you mentioned the difference he made. They were one and eight without him, they were three and five with him. Without him, they averaged sixteen point eight points per game with him twenty two point four points per game. And again that's with like an offense that everybody looked at and said, like, yeah, this is the worst skill position talent in football. Like everybody was fully expecting them to pick number one overall, even knowing Kyler might come back at the end of the year. Now you add Marvin Harrison Junior to that room. McBride emerged as a stud in the second half of the year. Dersch As you mentioned theol once Kyler came back really emerged. I don't mind Michael Wilson as just another target in that receiving room. So you combine that with the fact that they ran the ball very well last year, have Kyler's threat with his legs, you have Connor who had an excellent season. They were fourth and rushing yards second and yards per attempt last year. I think the line should be okay mediocre. You bring in Joan Williams. Hope to see Paris Johnson progress, but I'm not too concerned about that, especially with how well Kyler moves around in and outside the pocket. So I like the offense a lot. I don't think that it's quite on the rams level. But I think it's an above average offense. It's just the defense. I mean, you mentioned THEO like basically bottom of the league in every possible respect. I do not like the front Darius Robinson you mentioned who they bring in in the first round. He's gonna be out sometime. It doesn't look like it's a big thing, but he's been out with a calf thing that it looks like like carry over into the regular season. I don't think it'll be more than a few weeks. But nevertheless, there's you know, a dynamic, promising talent who is not immediately gonna be available, maybe for a unit that desperately needs that. I'm good with the mac Wilson ad for the linebackers. I think that Okay, they invest in corner with Max Melton, But like, even expecting improvement, which I do expect, again, you're coming from the absolute gutter. You're coming from the depths of the debts. So even with the improvement I'm expecting, I'm still expecting a bad defense. And that's where I just can't talk myself into them being like, you know, a frisky sort of playoff team. Even though I like Kyler I'm happy to see him paired with the receiver prospects of Marvin Harrison Junior's caliber. It's just that defense.
Yeah, just to add on really quick about what you were saying about Kyler, I mean, I do think he's like a fringe top ten guy. I wouldn't argue he's top ten with the you know, just ammense amount of talent we have at the position nowadays. But what was also the reason of why those teams were great was because you had DeAndre Hopkins, a bona fid top five receiver in football. And you know, I don't want to put those kind of expectations on Marvin Harrison Junior, but the kid's nasty. Like you know, I, I don't know if he can reach that height. I just think it's another loaded position. But you've given Kyler another bona fide number one target that he can go to. And that was the dynamic that was sorely missing from this offense last year. Right, There's no explosiveness like you talk about it the others. He's not even looking towards the sidelines. With a guy like Marv, that dynamic should completely change, and yeah, there's something to look forward to there I think that is it's gonna make Kyler's life easier and it's gonna make that offense that much better.
Yeah, and I'm excited to see him and Michael Wilson really gel as well. Last year, Michael Wilson started out of the gate really hot with Josh Dobbs, and then he got banged up.
Kyler returned.
They had some really ugly games where like Michael Wilson didn't catch him pass for like a month or something like that. But I do think that Michael Wilson is a very good player, Like he has a great hands, He was very explosive last year. Like with Dobbs, he looks like that dude. And then those last two games that the Cardinals played, I thought the Kyler to Wilson connecting was looking a little bit better now that they had some time to play together. Finally, So I'm really I'm picking Wilson up in like the last round of all my fantasy drafts because I think that he has the potential to emerge as a really solid wide receiver.
To sixth round pick in our thirty two man league. Probably that's an elite five there if you're getting it.
On Logan I'm sorry speaking of the thirty two percent league, Logan, I'm sorry about your quarterback situation.
Dude.
Oh yeah, I probably gifted you a weak one, Dub.
You're welcome. I might be.
Gifting Wait, who's your quarterback, Logan, Drake May.
Oh, I mean, I think it's inevitable that he's going to start, but it's like I'm probably punting, like however many weeks until he starts out, Like, I'm gonna need my defense or my kicker or somebody.
You need to make it trade. You're gonna need to make.
It because somebody out there, some sick fuck stockpiled two starters. He did, I actually being one of them. If you want bo Nicks, talk to me and we can see we can make something happen.
You're gonna make me get up May to get bon Nicks. I don't want to give up, Drake.
I want your wide receiver one.
All right, bro, Well, after this we'll get into negotiations. My people will contact your people.
Yeah, I would give you Derek Carr, but I already not Derek Carr.
You know I'd rather have Drake me.
We'll take the zero for six weeks.
Dude, Derek Carr at QB thirty is gonna be a steal.
Absolutely, Oh my god, that's incredible value.
But I already traded my backup sam donold Away for Christian Watson, so I can't.
I can't. I can't like Derek Carr.
Go it's a great trait.
Is that a great I am so worried about the quarterback situation because I took Rogers, and that's why I was like, sixth round, I'm taking a quarterback. I just can't. I can't take a zero at quarterback at any point in this season. I can't have a non starting quarterback as my starting quarterback, no effect.
I feel you.
But I had like Wiley as my starting tight end, and my flex was also garbage, and I I wanted to feel good about my starting lineup on paper, but maybe that's short sighted.
I traded away Khalil Shakir as well. Carson. No I trade.
Why you saw the vision?
We were just talking.
I know, I know, but I I just it was a two for one. I traded him for it. Isaiah Likely and Hunter Henry, Oh.
My god, Bro was obsessed with tight end. He was actually, that's not a fleece. That's not a fleece. Khalil Shakir will be a thousand yard receiver this year. I mean for my thirty two team league. I actually hope it's keyon Coleman because he is the Bills receiver who I have, But I think Shakiir is probably better. Year one.
Shakira probably is better, But I just I just didn't want to deal with Wiley as my starting tight end on these and then I was able to get Watson.
So we'll see, we'll see. I think the team got better, but it.
Also got way more injury prone and thin, so will we'll see.
Listen, you gotta have the upside. You gotta have the talent on the roster. I currently have Josh Kelly still on my team, who is an unsigned free agent at this point, so I'm looking upgrade with my depth running backs.
I'm checking my phone.
I'm seeing that listening to nerd sets has put some players on the trade block. Hayden Hurst Kennedy game with Tyler Boyd. No one wants these guys.
Logan, you're putting your whole team on the trade block.
Boh, I have to get a quarterback.
Now, uh we you know I might talk to you about Tyler Boyd. I will definitely give you Josh Kelly for Tyler Boyd.
We could we could make something happen. Actually, I think make something happen.
We'll talk you and I, buddy, we've got those relationships, relationships or everything when it comes to the front office. You know, do people trust you? Do they respect you? Logan and I have that all right? Any final thoughts on this division, gentlemen, do we think this is the best division in football?
ANFC North does in fact exist?
I agree, I think it's AFC North as well. Just throwing it out there, Leo, what do you think.
I'd probably go the AFC North as well.
Yeah. I think a f C East best top three in my opinion, But the Pats are just gonna be one of the worst.
And N West are pretty good.
Pretty up there, yeah, and North pretty good as well.
But AFC West, Logan, You Raiders, fiend Raiders Raiders are good. I think that they will be a heaping pile of.
I don't like them, but then I think about how like Antonio Pierce just is a Raider, and then I get excited.
Yeah, but I don't know.
I don't know if wait until he finds a way to commit massive recruiting violations at the NFL level.
And it all came from So it's the problem.
You know, he'll find a way. He'll find a way.
Tampering.
Tampering massive raiders are punished by getting sent back to Oakland.
Pot How dare you you disrespect the glorious Bay Area who are now losing. Let anot yet another Oakland team to Vegas. First Sacramento rip to Oakland sports teams on that somber note, we will let you go. Actually, THEO, where's the gift I got you for your birthday? Pal? I was expecting to see it front and center.
There it is, I got it right here, right here.
Well, that de warm is the hat.
Aaron Rodgers on Ayahuasca.
Man reading the defense. That's me playing in Cuba twenty five.
Oh, that's so real.
God, that's so real. That's me with the cow Bears, my glorious dynasty. Yeah, I got theel A freaky little guy.
Yeah, he's he's like freaky, he's a freak.
Fuck look at those eyes.
He comes alive late at the night and he runs around and.
He's scared, of course, yeah, of course.
But I can't quite catch him, I come bursting into my net and then he just right back.
He's just frozen. He's frozen right back, and I was a little still.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's classic, classic Gorbon as I named him. All right, THEO, thank you for coming on. It was a delight to have you. Everybody. Of course, go watch Stay Hot if you're not already, go watch all their full shows, Go watch their clips on TikTok, Go follow THEO on TikTok. THEO makes some of the best, most thoughtful content that you will see on that silly ad dance platform. And there's a great deal to be learned about football from this man. And go listen to his new show with the Pro Football Network, and go follow them on TikTok because he's doing stuff for them there as well. If you want more of our content, then you probably know where to find it. Follow us on YouTube, listen to the show across audio platforms, follow us across social for all of our graphics from the show, clips from the show, and all of our trivia contents. And we have a bunch of different kind of show content out over the summer. We have a trivia episode with THEO and the Stay Hot Boys as we do with numerous other guests. We just did one with Jason Timf and Yovan Bouja last week. It was all Lakers themed. We've got NBA off season rankings, and we are now almost done with our NFL season preview content because baby, it is coming in hot, so THEO. Any last words before we let you go, God bless America is always a safe bet. No, there's power in silence. Beautiful, beautiful. One last shout out to THEO with that. As always, I've been Carson Braber
I have been Logan Camden and this was heard sad
