The volume.

The volume.

Oh my god, how could he do that? Got what Charles Darwin? The Nerves is where it's at.

Oh my god, how could he do that? Got what Charles Darwin? The Nerves is where it's at.

Welcome everybody back into Nerve Sesshon. As always, I'm Carson Brevorn. Alongside me is Logan Camden, and today we are joined by a very special guest, our good friend, Jason Timph is here, of course, the host of Hoops Tonight on the Volume. Jason, it's been a minute. How are you doing.

Welcome everybody back into Nerve Sesshon. As always, I'm Carson Brevorn. Alongside me is Logan Camden, and today we are joined by a very special guest, our good friend, Jason Timph is here, of course, the host of Hoops Tonight on the Volume. Jason, it's been a minute. How are you doing.

I'm doing good. It's good to see you, guys. I've seen all of your Denver Nuggets propaganda that you're putting out there. Just just coming in here to maybe push back a little bit, bringing back to reality. We'll see I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

I'm doing good. It's good to see you, guys. I've seen all of your Denver Nuggets propaganda that you're putting out there. Just just coming in here to maybe push back a little bit, bringing back to reality. We'll see I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

Oh, just facts, just statistics, Jason. No propaganda here, but Nuggets are playing some good ball. We are going to talk about the Nuggets later on in the show. Ohoh, but we have to start with the Los Angeles Lakers. Of course, this is going to continue to be the biggest story in the sport for a while because Luka dancc is a Laker and that's just about the craziest thing that's happened in NBA history. And as I always like to point out whenever we talk Lakers with you. Jason. Of course, you do an incredible job of covering the whole league your shows Hoops Tonight, but way back in the day when you first joined the volume, it was Lakers Tonight, So you do have a certain expertise when it comes to the Lakers specifically. So, having now seen a couple games of Luca as a Laker, one blowout win versus the Utah Jazz, one blowout loss versus the Utah Jazz, do you think that this new version of the Lakers is a contender?

Oh, just facts, just statistics, Jason. No propaganda here, but Nuggets are playing some good ball. We are going to talk about the Nuggets later on in the show. Ohoh, but we have to start with the Los Angeles Lakers. Of course, this is going to continue to be the biggest story in the sport for a while because Luka dancc is a Laker and that's just about the craziest thing that's happened in NBA history. And as I always like to point out whenever we talk Lakers with you. Jason. Of course, you do an incredible job of covering the whole league your shows Hoops Tonight, but way back in the day when you first joined the volume, it was Lakers Tonight, So you do have a certain expertise when it comes to the Lakers specifically. So, having now seen a couple games of Luca as a Laker, one blowout win versus the Utah Jazz, one blowout loss versus the Utah Jazz, do you think that this new version of the Lakers is a contender?

I do. I think we'd all would be foolish to think that this group could not get all the way. I think that placing them right now is extremely difficult, just because I didn't think either of those Jazz games were necessarily what this team's going to look like when they're kind of fully round it out. Luca was basically an afterthought in both games in terms of just his overall level of aggression. You saw some of the bits and pieces of the things he's going to do. But like the first game, Lebron and Austin were super aggressive and Luca just kind of sat back and let those guys were on the show. He made occasional plays here or there, but and then the second game, like literally the entire team just completely mailed it in. I did think that the second game showcased some of their issues, which is that when they don't compete on the ball, they can give up a lot of dribble penetration. But like, I don't think it's as bad as it looked in that game, because for literally a month prior, they were doing a fantastic job with similar players at containing the ball and flying around in rotation, rebounding, closing out possessions, all that kind of stuff. The second thing that really stood out to me in that game was once you get after Jackson Hayes, none of their centers can play, and when you reach a certain amount of like okay, if Jackson's out and Dorian Finney Smith is out, now you have to build every lineup around one of Van doh or Christian Coloco or Alex Lynn. And so if one of those three guys are on the floor, then any team with rim protection can stash a rim protector there. The Jazz did it a little bit in man demand, but also with a little bit of zone but they were able to park Walker Kessler under the rim and that ended up bogging everything down for them, and it was still fine. They still generated a lot of really good shots. I thought most of their issues were just not competing on defense. But it did shut off the rim. It turned them into a jump shooting team. They took fifty threes, they made twenty of them, you know that sort of thing. So like when I look in the big picture, I think that they'll have looks with Jackson at center that are offensively oriented but played pretty well that starting group in particular, And then I think they'll have a bunch of small ball looks. And I think their small ball looks will defend better the groups that have Gabe, that have Dorian Phinney, Smith vandoh Lebron, that those sorts of groups are going to defend really well. My guess is they'll try to pair Jackson with Luca as much as possible and let Lebron lead the small ball groups, which I which I think is is a smart way to go. I think they're gonna score a ton of points. I think there will be some ugly games where it feels clunky because the give and take between Luca Austin and Lebron is still getting sorted out, or like, uh, you know, obviously, poor shooting nights will happen from time to time because I think they're gonna take a lot of threes. But like I think, once this team actually gets to April and they've had thirty more games of reps and all that kind of stuff, they're gonna score the ball. That's not the issue. When I think about this team in the big picture, I really only worry about I really only worry about like the very best teams in the league in some specific matchup stuff, Like I actually think they match up pretty well with OKC because they're just so much bigger than every single player on their team. We saw that again with Minnesota last night, Like it doesn't even matter if chats out there, if every guy's got four inches on the dude across from him, they're just gonna get a lot of rebounds and they're gonna win a lot of physical battles. I think that's gonna be an issue that okayse he deals with that the Lakers can exploit, but teams like Boston that can really truly spread them out will give them issues. Testing their point of attack defense, and then Denver just like, if you gifting Jokic, you know, forty pounds on everybody who tries to guard him, that's gonna be something that they struggle with. I think I want to see them play against each other, and I want to see the Lakers play a bunch more games before I get really definitive about it, because the Lakers will present a lot of issues for Denver's defense. That said, like that, those are the types of matchups that I get concerned with. Let's just put it this way. If you're doing this sort of thing in the middle of the season, you're always gonna have a really small margin for error, and it's pretty clear that this team has a small margin for error. That said, don't overthink it. Lebron Luca Austin, with a bunch of role players that can play on offense and play a little bit on defense, they're gonna be a really tough out for anybody.

I do. I think we'd all would be foolish to think that this group could not get all the way. I think that placing them right now is extremely difficult, just because I didn't think either of those Jazz games were necessarily what this team's going to look like when they're kind of fully round it out. Luca was basically an afterthought in both games in terms of just his overall level of aggression. You saw some of the bits and pieces of the things he's going to do. But like the first game, Lebron and Austin were super aggressive and Luca just kind of sat back and let those guys were on the show. He made occasional plays here or there, but and then the second game, like literally the entire team just completely mailed it in. I did think that the second game showcased some of their issues, which is that when they don't compete on the ball, they can give up a lot of dribble penetration. But like, I don't think it's as bad as it looked in that game, because for literally a month prior, they were doing a fantastic job with similar players at containing the ball and flying around in rotation, rebounding, closing out possessions, all that kind of stuff. The second thing that really stood out to me in that game was once you get after Jackson Hayes, none of their centers can play, and when you reach a certain amount of like okay, if Jackson's out and Dorian Finney Smith is out, now you have to build every lineup around one of Van doh or Christian Coloco or Alex Lynn. And so if one of those three guys are on the floor, then any team with rim protection can stash a rim protector there. The Jazz did it a little bit in man demand, but also with a little bit of zone but they were able to park Walker Kessler under the rim and that ended up bogging everything down for them, and it was still fine. They still generated a lot of really good shots. I thought most of their issues were just not competing on defense. But it did shut off the rim. It turned them into a jump shooting team. They took fifty threes, they made twenty of them, you know that sort of thing. So like when I look in the big picture, I think that they'll have looks with Jackson at center that are offensively oriented but played pretty well that starting group in particular, And then I think they'll have a bunch of small ball looks. And I think their small ball looks will defend better the groups that have Gabe, that have Dorian Phinney, Smith vandoh Lebron, that those sorts of groups are going to defend really well. My guess is they'll try to pair Jackson with Luca as much as possible and let Lebron lead the small ball groups, which I which I think is is a smart way to go. I think they're gonna score a ton of points. I think there will be some ugly games where it feels clunky because the give and take between Luca Austin and Lebron is still getting sorted out, or like, uh, you know, obviously, poor shooting nights will happen from time to time because I think they're gonna take a lot of threes. But like I think, once this team actually gets to April and they've had thirty more games of reps and all that kind of stuff, they're gonna score the ball. That's not the issue. When I think about this team in the big picture, I really only worry about I really only worry about like the very best teams in the league in some specific matchup stuff, Like I actually think they match up pretty well with OKC because they're just so much bigger than every single player on their team. We saw that again with Minnesota last night, Like it doesn't even matter if chats out there, if every guy's got four inches on the dude across from him, they're just gonna get a lot of rebounds and they're gonna win a lot of physical battles. I think that's gonna be an issue that okayse he deals with that the Lakers can exploit, but teams like Boston that can really truly spread them out will give them issues. Testing their point of attack defense, and then Denver just like, if you gifting Jokic, you know, forty pounds on everybody who tries to guard him, that's gonna be something that they struggle with. I think I want to see them play against each other, and I want to see the Lakers play a bunch more games before I get really definitive about it, because the Lakers will present a lot of issues for Denver's defense. That said, like that, those are the types of matchups that I get concerned with. Let's just put it this way. If you're doing this sort of thing in the middle of the season, you're always gonna have a really small margin for error, and it's pretty clear that this team has a small margin for error. That said, don't overthink it. Lebron Luca Austin, with a bunch of role players that can play on offense and play a little bit on defense, they're gonna be a really tough out for anybody.

Yeah, I think I fundamentally agree with that sentiment. There's some other matchups that you didn't mention that I do want to see Memphis specifically too. Just a lot of these both sized teams like a Minnesota also that game from last night. No Roody, no Julius. Man, It's amazing what them Wolves can do it a little bit of space, man, I swear, take some notes.

Yeah, I think I fundamentally agree with that sentiment. There's some other matchups that you didn't mention that I do want to see Memphis specifically too. Just a lot of these both sized teams like a Minnesota also that game from last night. No Roody, no Julius. Man, It's amazing what them Wolves can do it a little bit of space, man, I swear, take some notes.

Guys is hooping man, Oh my god, he's so tough.

Guys is hooping man, Oh my god, he's so tough.

The passing too. With Nas. I'm like, where is this coming from.

The passing too. With Nas. I'm like, where is this coming from.

He's a big guard, man, he was born to be a guard.

He's a big guard, man, he was born to be a guard.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

It's frustrating when you think about their roster construction. So I don't want to give a cop out answer like that, but I do want to see this team against some some other teams that give them different looks, because I think it's gonna be matchup dependent. Like we always harp on the negatives that you were mentioning. I do think that's a big question about the Lakers. How much effort can they commit to giving every single night? What floor can this defense reach. Obviously we're only two games in, so take these numbers with a grain of salt. They have a one to twenty one point one defensive rating since getting Luca. That's equivalent to dead last in the league. But they have the number one offense with Luca, equivalent to one twenty four point five. So the US there, Alex Lenn is not going to be the answer at center. I can definitively say that I really felt bad for the guy. Dude, I will give him this. Alex Lenn never looked this bad in Sacramento. I can say that confidently, Like, I don't know what the difference is. Len was like, you know, it's not gonna be a great eight to ten minutes, but it's something that felt like watching your little brother play like your older brother in basketball against Walker Kessler. That's not the long term answer. So I think the Lakers are gonna have to scramble with some of these small ball looks. And again, that's where I really think it matters when we're talking about matchups long term, because there's a give and take. Right maybe their small ball lineups are really effective with DFS and with Hayes, and Hayes gets maximized with Luca, and they're spraying a bunch of threes. Also, in these two games with Luca, they're attempting forty six threes a night. That would be equivalent to second in the league, just behind Boston. And so I think this gives them a exceptionally high offensive ceiling if they're hitting and in those matchups that we talk we talk against a Grizzlies, right, a triple j and Edie. Maybe all that spacing, you know, is really hard for Memphis to cover all of that space. Minnesota, maybe it's hard for them on the other end. Maybe they just get bullied on the interior. But what you said at the end, there are Jason, I think is the nail on the head. Luca and Lebron are such brilliant passers and playmakers. I mean, these guys are basketball geniuses. There are two guys that amplify and enhance everybody on the court. And the one thing that I've really been encouraged by with this Lakers team through two games is the ball movement. I mean, the ball doesn't stick around. Everybody seems to get their touches, and I think as we see this team gel and really figure out the fit specifically, like that balance you were talking about, Jason, with Luca and Lebron off ball. We saw a little bit of some Luca offball actions the other night too. I'm hoping that they employ more of that and we see Luca commit to that. But I think this offense is going to be phenomenal. It's just isn't gonna be overwhelming because it's a real identity change. We talked about this on last episode, Carson, but it's not a two way team anymore. This is like a fully offensive oriented team, So they're gonna have to win that way. They're just gonna have to win track meets. It may not be the best formula, but I do think it's a formula that can give teams issues. And I don't know about you, guys, I certainly wouldn't want to run into the Lakers in Round one by any means. I mean, they're a really tough drawl, Like people are still gonna be scared of this team when it comes playoff time. I can say that confidently.

It's frustrating when you think about their roster construction. So I don't want to give a cop out answer like that, but I do want to see this team against some some other teams that give them different looks, because I think it's gonna be matchup dependent. Like we always harp on the negatives that you were mentioning. I do think that's a big question about the Lakers. How much effort can they commit to giving every single night? What floor can this defense reach. Obviously we're only two games in, so take these numbers with a grain of salt. They have a one to twenty one point one defensive rating since getting Luca. That's equivalent to dead last in the league. But they have the number one offense with Luca, equivalent to one twenty four point five. So the US there, Alex Lenn is not going to be the answer at center. I can definitively say that I really felt bad for the guy. Dude, I will give him this. Alex Lenn never looked this bad in Sacramento. I can say that confidently, Like, I don't know what the difference is. Len was like, you know, it's not gonna be a great eight to ten minutes, but it's something that felt like watching your little brother play like your older brother in basketball against Walker Kessler. That's not the long term answer. So I think the Lakers are gonna have to scramble with some of these small ball looks. And again, that's where I really think it matters when we're talking about matchups long term, because there's a give and take. Right maybe their small ball lineups are really effective with DFS and with Hayes, and Hayes gets maximized with Luca, and they're spraying a bunch of threes. Also, in these two games with Luca, they're attempting forty six threes a night. That would be equivalent to second in the league, just behind Boston. And so I think this gives them a exceptionally high offensive ceiling if they're hitting and in those matchups that we talk we talk against a Grizzlies, right, a triple j and Edie. Maybe all that spacing, you know, is really hard for Memphis to cover all of that space. Minnesota, maybe it's hard for them on the other end. Maybe they just get bullied on the interior. But what you said at the end, there are Jason, I think is the nail on the head. Luca and Lebron are such brilliant passers and playmakers. I mean, these guys are basketball geniuses. There are two guys that amplify and enhance everybody on the court. And the one thing that I've really been encouraged by with this Lakers team through two games is the ball movement. I mean, the ball doesn't stick around. Everybody seems to get their touches, and I think as we see this team gel and really figure out the fit specifically, like that balance you were talking about, Jason, with Luca and Lebron off ball. We saw a little bit of some Luca offball actions the other night too. I'm hoping that they employ more of that and we see Luca commit to that. But I think this offense is going to be phenomenal. It's just isn't gonna be overwhelming because it's a real identity change. We talked about this on last episode, Carson, but it's not a two way team anymore. This is like a fully offensive oriented team, So they're gonna have to win that way. They're just gonna have to win track meets. It may not be the best formula, but I do think it's a formula that can give teams issues. And I don't know about you, guys, I certainly wouldn't want to run into the Lakers in Round one by any means. I mean, they're a really tough drawl, Like people are still gonna be scared of this team when it comes playoff time. I can say that confidently.

Really quickly, Carson, before you know. The two quick things I just wanted to say is like it's important to acknowledge their small ball looks were guarding and guarding extremely well before Luca came and a big part of why they looked terrible against Utah in that game, in addition to them just being already in Cabo. But the other part of it was Gabe Vincent and Dorian Finney Smith are probably their two best perimeter defenders and they were both out just for Rest not injured, they were just out for Rest. And then the second thing too, like the Lakers small ball look is a huge small ball look like it's going to be Austin at six ' five, Luca at six nine, Lebron at six nine, Dorian Finney Smith at six's eight, and either Ruey or Vanda who's six ' nine, so like, and all those dudes are big and strong, so like they and they're and they're all really good defensive rebounders except for Rui and like, so I do think that there's Ruey and dfs are both ken but they can rebound, so it's so and Austin rebounds well for a guard. So like, they are a small ball group, but they it's important to acknowledge that they're not. They're not three guards and two small dudes playing like it's a it's a huge small ball look, right.

Really quickly, Carson, before you know. The two quick things I just wanted to say is like it's important to acknowledge their small ball looks were guarding and guarding extremely well before Luca came and a big part of why they looked terrible against Utah in that game, in addition to them just being already in Cabo. But the other part of it was Gabe Vincent and Dorian Finney Smith are probably their two best perimeter defenders and they were both out just for Rest not injured, they were just out for Rest. And then the second thing too, like the Lakers small ball look is a huge small ball look like it's going to be Austin at six ' five, Luca at six nine, Lebron at six nine, Dorian Finney Smith at six's eight, and either Ruey or Vanda who's six ' nine, so like, and all those dudes are big and strong, so like they and they're and they're all really good defensive rebounders except for Rui and like, so I do think that there's Ruey and dfs are both ken but they can rebound, so it's so and Austin rebounds well for a guard. So like, they are a small ball group, but they it's important to acknowledge that they're not. They're not three guards and two small dudes playing like it's a it's a huge small ball look, right.

I also think that in some ways it's lacking two of the things that I really want to see from a small ball group if they're going to succeed at a high level, and that is speed. Because it is a bigger quote unquote small ball group. It's also a slower small ball group. And you have to have that aggregate rim protection. I'm not really convinced that that group has it. So that's the thing. It's just ath lets. I think you have to be so menacing. You have to be able to do what an OKC can where you just wreak havoc. You have to be able to do like what the microball rockets did, where you just have that much speed on the floor. That's where I think I'm just lower on the Lakers defense than you probably, Jason, and I don't deny that they have been defending at a high level last fifteen games. They're the number four defense in basketball. It just doesn't mean that much to me because I do think introducing Luca for thirty six minutes a night changes things. Also, they still did have AD for a portion of that period. Like big picture, I think this is probably a bottom ten defense. I think that they have major point of attack issues, and I think that they have serious interior issues as well, because Jackson Hayes is fine, but like you said, he's the only playable center here. So then they are going with so many of those small ball looks and I kind of think they have to try to find a way to get Vandal on the floor as much as possible, But I'm also pretty pessimistic when it comes to Vando's offense in a postseason setting. And I still worry again, just about that lack of rim protection in the small ball groups. But the reason that I say that Vando is so important is because shout out to Gabe and shout out to DFS, they are good perimeter defenders. But when it comes to like guarding some of these elite perimeter offensive players, I do think that Vando is your best option. But again, I just worry about if he can play in a playoff series, especially can he play alongside a center, which I think you might kind of need for those rim protection and rebounding aspects. There's just two glaring issues with this defense to me, and it's the two most important things. It's how do they contain these really high end guards at the point of attack? And then how can they hang on the interior Who's guarding a Shay on one end, who's guarding a Jokic on the other end of the spectrum. And you can go through all the best teams in the West, right I think they'd struggle to stay in front of a James Harden and then I think they also struggle to contend with like Naviza Zubats on the interior.

I also think that in some ways it's lacking two of the things that I really want to see from a small ball group if they're going to succeed at a high level, and that is speed. Because it is a bigger quote unquote small ball group. It's also a slower small ball group. And you have to have that aggregate rim protection. I'm not really convinced that that group has it. So that's the thing. It's just ath lets. I think you have to be so menacing. You have to be able to do what an OKC can where you just wreak havoc. You have to be able to do like what the microball rockets did, where you just have that much speed on the floor. That's where I think I'm just lower on the Lakers defense than you probably, Jason, and I don't deny that they have been defending at a high level last fifteen games. They're the number four defense in basketball. It just doesn't mean that much to me because I do think introducing Luca for thirty six minutes a night changes things. Also, they still did have AD for a portion of that period. Like big picture, I think this is probably a bottom ten defense. I think that they have major point of attack issues, and I think that they have serious interior issues as well, because Jackson Hayes is fine, but like you said, he's the only playable center here. So then they are going with so many of those small ball looks and I kind of think they have to try to find a way to get Vandal on the floor as much as possible, But I'm also pretty pessimistic when it comes to Vando's offense in a postseason setting. And I still worry again, just about that lack of rim protection in the small ball groups. But the reason that I say that Vando is so important is because shout out to Gabe and shout out to DFS, they are good perimeter defenders. But when it comes to like guarding some of these elite perimeter offensive players, I do think that Vando is your best option. But again, I just worry about if he can play in a playoff series, especially can he play alongside a center, which I think you might kind of need for those rim protection and rebounding aspects. There's just two glaring issues with this defense to me, and it's the two most important things. It's how do they contain these really high end guards at the point of attack? And then how can they hang on the interior Who's guarding a Shay on one end, who's guarding a Jokic on the other end of the spectrum. And you can go through all the best teams in the West, right I think they'd struggle to stay in front of a James Harden and then I think they also struggle to contend with like Naviza Zubats on the interior.

I think they were just special.

I think they were just special.

Yeah, but like over a series, I don't know. I think that's a problem. I think the dealing with the MAVs front court is a problem. And against some of those teams, right Dallas, the Clippers, Memphis, what have you. You can talk me into like, Okay, well, we just think that we're going to outperform them with our offense being insane, because I think there's no question this should be a top five offense in basketball, could be a top three offense. It's one of the best offensive duos we've ever seen. Luca Lebron should be and Austin Reeves has been playing at like a fringe star level since Christmas, and they're shooting around them. And Jackson Hayes just as that rim runner. It's a successful archetype alongside Luca and Lebron, like he's gonna be able to produce zero questions about the offense. I think it's an elite offense. I just really worry about the defense. And again, if you're saying I'm gonna bet on their offense against a superior two way team like Memphis or like Dallas, these teams that really can defend and have superior depth. I think there's no question about that. If you want to bet on LA's offense against those more flawed offenses but complete two eight teams, I see that case where I struggle is Okay, Okay, See, I don't disagree that the matchup isn't bad. I just think the talent disparity is too great, and I think that they will be able to ultimately do whatever they can to force the ball out of Luca and Lebron's hands and force other dudes in that offense to beat them. And they're just such agents of chaos that like, yeah, I think that they will lose on the glass, I think that Lebron and Luca can go through all of their dudes except for lou Dort in single coverage. I still think there is an aggregate skill and a complete athleticism and depth of talent with Oka. See that I just think completely laps what the Lakers have. And then Denver, I just think it's a terrible, terrible matchup for the Lakers. I mean it has been for years. The Nuggets are fourteen and three against them over the last three years. Jokic average is twenty eight four teen and ten on like sixty six percent for shooting. He has gotten whatever he wants against them for years, and that was with Anthony Davis. And when you downgrade obviously by far your best defensive player and your best option to throw at Jokic, I just think he is going to obliterate them in a way that we haven't even seen yet. Like there's not a limit that I could put on what Denver's offense and what Yokic can achieve against the Lakers, And you could look at the other side and you can say, okay, well, who's dealing with Luka Doncic. Who's dealing with Lebron. I think Aaron Gordon can do a decent job on Lebron, but Luca is really the problematic matchup. Christian Brown is not equipped for that. Maybe they try Russ on him as sort of a stronger guard. That's a bad matchup for Denver. Peyton Watson is probably the dude who can guard him best. But Peyton Watson's not going to play more than fifteen eighteen minutes, So like that's fair, But I just think Jokicic is clearly the best offensive player in that series. I think that Denver has the better offense. I mean, they've been on a ridiculous, ridiculous run as of late, and I trust their defense more. I think that they've at least shown collectively a level that they can get to as a group in years past and playoff runs where they get serious. And the Lakers we just haven't seen it for very long. With Luke, obviously, we've seen two games, but I'm not optimistic. The Utah game was really, really ugly. Jordan Clarkson is getting dribble penetration at will. He's getting whatever he wants. And yes, I don't disagree.

Yeah, but like over a series, I don't know. I think that's a problem. I think the dealing with the MAVs front court is a problem. And against some of those teams, right Dallas, the Clippers, Memphis, what have you. You can talk me into like, Okay, well, we just think that we're going to outperform them with our offense being insane, because I think there's no question this should be a top five offense in basketball, could be a top three offense. It's one of the best offensive duos we've ever seen. Luca Lebron should be and Austin Reeves has been playing at like a fringe star level since Christmas, and they're shooting around them. And Jackson Hayes just as that rim runner. It's a successful archetype alongside Luca and Lebron, like he's gonna be able to produce zero questions about the offense. I think it's an elite offense. I just really worry about the defense. And again, if you're saying I'm gonna bet on their offense against a superior two way team like Memphis or like Dallas, these teams that really can defend and have superior depth. I think there's no question about that. If you want to bet on LA's offense against those more flawed offenses but complete two eight teams, I see that case where I struggle is Okay, Okay, See, I don't disagree that the matchup isn't bad. I just think the talent disparity is too great, and I think that they will be able to ultimately do whatever they can to force the ball out of Luca and Lebron's hands and force other dudes in that offense to beat them. And they're just such agents of chaos that like, yeah, I think that they will lose on the glass, I think that Lebron and Luca can go through all of their dudes except for lou Dort in single coverage. I still think there is an aggregate skill and a complete athleticism and depth of talent with Oka. See that I just think completely laps what the Lakers have. And then Denver, I just think it's a terrible, terrible matchup for the Lakers. I mean it has been for years. The Nuggets are fourteen and three against them over the last three years. Jokic average is twenty eight four teen and ten on like sixty six percent for shooting. He has gotten whatever he wants against them for years, and that was with Anthony Davis. And when you downgrade obviously by far your best defensive player and your best option to throw at Jokic, I just think he is going to obliterate them in a way that we haven't even seen yet. Like there's not a limit that I could put on what Denver's offense and what Yokic can achieve against the Lakers, And you could look at the other side and you can say, okay, well, who's dealing with Luka Doncic. Who's dealing with Lebron. I think Aaron Gordon can do a decent job on Lebron, but Luca is really the problematic matchup. Christian Brown is not equipped for that. Maybe they try Russ on him as sort of a stronger guard. That's a bad matchup for Denver. Peyton Watson is probably the dude who can guard him best. But Peyton Watson's not going to play more than fifteen eighteen minutes, So like that's fair, But I just think Jokicic is clearly the best offensive player in that series. I think that Denver has the better offense. I mean, they've been on a ridiculous, ridiculous run as of late, and I trust their defense more. I think that they've at least shown collectively a level that they can get to as a group in years past and playoff runs where they get serious. And the Lakers we just haven't seen it for very long. With Luke, obviously, we've seen two games, but I'm not optimistic. The Utah game was really, really ugly. Jordan Clarkson is getting dribble penetration at will. He's getting whatever he wants. And yes, I don't disagree.

Lakers, the same team two nights earlier beat the Ship, obviously trying this at the point of negativity from.

Lakers, the same team two nights earlier beat the Ship, obviously trying this at the point of negativity from.

Cardon down to rotation guys man.

Cardon down to rotation guys man.

So Luke already, they were on the plane. They were on the plane, Carson, they were already.

So Luke already, they were on the plane. They were on the plane, Carson, they were already.

I don't disagree. I don't disagree. But it's also Luca and Austin Reeves as you're starting defensive backcourt at defend.

I don't disagree. I don't disagree. But it's also Luca and Austin Reeves as you're starting defensive backcourt at defend.

Austin is not a bad defender.

Austin is not a bad defender.

He's mediocre.

He's mediocre.

He's certainly not every big every big game. He plays really well on the defensive end of the floor. All Right, I gotta I gotta back against some of the parts for it. So a couple of things. I think, let's kind of go down the line here as far as comparing team to team. First of all, when you're looking at a perimeter speed kind of concept, there's when you have Anthony Davis in the lineup, for instance, a guy like Max Christy becomes vitally important because you need someone that can navigate ball screens and there's a certain amount of like speed that is important in those sorts of situations when you're chasing over the top, you're trying to get rear view contests, you're trying to flatten out drives over the top of screens, things along those lines. There's a very specific reason why the Lakers have been guarding really well over the course of the last month. JJ Redick leaned into this concept of switching early in the year and including switching with the five man, and it wasn't working in a lot of cases because the Lakers just weren't competing the way they needed to and in order for small ball looks to work. Excuse me for five outs or five man switching to work, you've got to have guys competing on the glass. When they're picking on mismatches, you have to shrink the flow around them and offer help and rotate. And they were just like letting teams pick on Delo and Austin and just standing around Lebron in ad would be standing guarding someone on the perimeter and they get cooked and they would just run into all these issues having to do with just not competing. And then a couple of different things happened. One they traded Dangela Russell for Dorian Finney Smith, who in addition to just being a better defensive player, is a like just a tailor made defender for a switching scheme. And then you get Jared Vanderbilt back healthy who can guard bigger players and smaller players as well. Like to me, Jared Vanderbilt is an upper tier defensive player in this league. And then Lebron starts to believe in this team. Lebron mailed it in against Utah on Wednesday. That was the first time he's been like completely disengaged in about a month, if not longer. Lebron has been guarding as of late, like really really well, and so when you actually start to get into the lineup, it's like, Okay, Lebron engaged defensively as a very good defensive player. Dorian Finney Smith, within the switching scheme, I think, is a good to a very good defensive player. Jared Vanderbilt is a very good to great defensive player. Gabe Vinson is a good defensive player. Austin Reeves does his job on defense. He defense like Ruey had a really rough game against Lori Markinen on Wednesday, but he is capable as long as you don't make him track a shooter that's like his big that's his like his Achilles heel is. He just loses side of shooters. That's how Michael Porter Junior did so much damage to him in the past. So the Lakers actually have a lot of really good defensive players in their rotation. That's why they're guarding. They're guarding because they have a lot of really good defensive players. It's not because they're just playing hard and it's February. They have really good defensive players. They Now you add Luca into that equation, I'm not of the opinion that they're going to be a top ten defense either. I think they're going to be in the middle ten because they have a lot of really good defensive players and they're all really big. Now within the concept of switching, the reason why their defense has been working is they've been shutting off dribble penetration that comes naturally through screens. And watch them when they're actually locked in on defense. They do a great job of gapping. So like the guy will be looking to attack a match up, Let's say Isaiah Collier against Ruey hot Chamura, but instead of Isaiah Collier just driving right by Ruy hot Chamura while everyone's hugged up off the ball, they've got guys sitting in the get driving lane on both ends. And both of those dudes are six ' nine and both of those dudes can move, and so they get in there and they rotate back out to the shooter and they shut off that drible penetration. And because Luke is a very good rebounder, Lebron's a very good rebounder, Austin's a very good rebounder for a guard, Jared Vanderbilt is a very good rebounder. They're rebounding pretty well for small ball groups. I think before the Utah game they were like twelfth in the twelve and one span, which is eleven and two span, which is great for a small ball group to be rebounding that well. So, like they compete and they do all those things really well. The Denver matchup. The thing with the Denver matchup is they killed the Lakers with strength. They killed them because they were bigger and stronger than them all over the place. Go back two years ago. It's like Jamal Murray is just eating up Dennis Schroeder because he's too small, and Austin Reeves is guarding Michael Porter junior, and like, obviously there's a strength mismatch in terms of Anthony Davis under the basket with Nikola Jokic, this is a infinitely stronger basketball team. They're bigger at every position. They're like twenty thirty pounds heavier at every position than they were in years past. This is a team that presents a different, an entirely different challenge to the Denver Nuggets. So, like, to me, taking whatever what you saw in the last two years can basically be thrown away. You talked about Oklahoma City as an example of a team that will get the ball out of Luca's hands, or get the ball out of Lebron's hands. I actually really like that matchup for the Lakers, in large part because Lou Dort is the Lebron antidote. Lou Dort is the Luca antidote. Too bad, there's two of them now, and you've got to find a way to match up. It's gonna be Jalen Williams, and he's not gonna have much of a chance against either of those guys guarding them. Also, the big difference between this Laker team and the Dallas Maverick team that went to the finals last year, this Lakers team has substantially better play finishers. It's not Derek Jones Junior in PJ. Washington. Ruy Ha Chamura is shooting fifty three percent on unguarded catch and shoot jump shots this year. He is driving closeouts well. Austin can operate with an advantage, Luca can, Irxes me Lebron can operate with an advantage. Drian Phinney Smith is a knockdown, catch and shoot three guy that the Lakers could not generate catch and shoot threes for because they didn't have the dribble penetration for now, they do. Like to me, this Laker team is going to be a level of offense that I don't think we've actually seen before in terms of like having two supreme forward matchup attackers that can always get the defense in rotation while having a ton of play finishing around them. So, like you had talked about, like how you think the thunder have more skill and like more overall talent. Here's the thing. Lebron at the at this point is playing at a top ten level, Luca is somewhere between the second and third best player in the world. Austin Reeves is playing at like a top thirty level as of late. This Laker team has a lot more talent than people are willing to admit. There's a lot of really really good basketball players here. And so like I think the points you're making in terms of the matchup stuff, like, yeah, I do think that there's a speed advantage for Oklahoma City if they played in a series, there would be stretches where they would force turnovers and get out in transition. But you're also a very aggressive double teaming, gapping, trying to force turnover type of team against two of the very best players in NBA history for making defenses pay for being aggressive. And you've got all of these like three four inch thirty forty pound advantages all over the perimeter that could cause all sorts of problems in terms of the glass. Like, dude, dude, Luca Garza ate the Thunder alive last night underneath the basket. Luca Garza did because he's just bigger and stronger than those guys. Yeah, So, like I think, I think when we discussed the advantages again, like this is the debate, right, Carson, And like, for the record, I think I said this on my show the other day, and this is what I believe to be true. The Thunder are on the same tier as Denver and LA. To me, the reason why the Thunder are so much better in the regular season is they're all twenty three years old and super athletic, so they just run over teams with their athleticism in the regular season. To me, those three teams are on the same tier. All of them present different issues for each other, and I think the way you laid it out was a great way to explain the issues that those teams present to the Lakers. But the Lakers also present a lot of issues to them on the other end of the floor. The main reason why I'm keyed in specifically on Denver and Boston is Denver is the one team where I could actually see Jokic's advantages on the interior being superior to the advantages that Luca and Lebron could generate on the other side. I can see the case for that. And Boston is the one team that I think has the right types of lineups to truly space the Lakers out to where they're gapping and sitting and hel helping on their mismatch. Attacking wouldn't work as well. So like, those are the two teams that when I look at it, I'm like, oh, like this might be something the Lakers can't solve. But I do think even when we discuss that it's important to acknowledge like never an NBA history have we seen a team with shot creation like what the Lakers present while also having a bunch of dudes that can either knock down shots or drive closeouts or play with an advantage. And I do think that is going to be valuable every Game three where it's a series tied at one and it's ninety five ninety five with five minutes left in the fourth quarter. You got to find a way to guard Luca and Lebron for the last fifteen possessions of that game. And it's going to be a huge pain in the ass. And so like I also, I will this is the last thing I'll say about it. Then they'll pitch it back to your Carson. Yeah, I we don't know yet. Let's watch him play some basketball. Like there's going to be some combination of what they did in the previous few weeks where they were awesome on defense with the switching group and obviously factoring in Luca's defense of shortcomings, but also the things he brings to the table. They play the Jazz twice, that's one of the very worst teams in the league. I'm curious to see, Like, I'm not gonna rank them with those other teams until I see them play more. And but I just there's a big part of me that says, like, let's not overthink this, you know what I mean.

He's certainly not every big every big game. He plays really well on the defensive end of the floor. All Right, I gotta I gotta back against some of the parts for it. So a couple of things. I think, let's kind of go down the line here as far as comparing team to team. First of all, when you're looking at a perimeter speed kind of concept, there's when you have Anthony Davis in the lineup, for instance, a guy like Max Christy becomes vitally important because you need someone that can navigate ball screens and there's a certain amount of like speed that is important in those sorts of situations when you're chasing over the top, you're trying to get rear view contests, you're trying to flatten out drives over the top of screens, things along those lines. There's a very specific reason why the Lakers have been guarding really well over the course of the last month. JJ Redick leaned into this concept of switching early in the year and including switching with the five man, and it wasn't working in a lot of cases because the Lakers just weren't competing the way they needed to and in order for small ball looks to work. Excuse me for five outs or five man switching to work, you've got to have guys competing on the glass. When they're picking on mismatches, you have to shrink the flow around them and offer help and rotate. And they were just like letting teams pick on Delo and Austin and just standing around Lebron in ad would be standing guarding someone on the perimeter and they get cooked and they would just run into all these issues having to do with just not competing. And then a couple of different things happened. One they traded Dangela Russell for Dorian Finney Smith, who in addition to just being a better defensive player, is a like just a tailor made defender for a switching scheme. And then you get Jared Vanderbilt back healthy who can guard bigger players and smaller players as well. Like to me, Jared Vanderbilt is an upper tier defensive player in this league. And then Lebron starts to believe in this team. Lebron mailed it in against Utah on Wednesday. That was the first time he's been like completely disengaged in about a month, if not longer. Lebron has been guarding as of late, like really really well, and so when you actually start to get into the lineup, it's like, Okay, Lebron engaged defensively as a very good defensive player. Dorian Finney Smith, within the switching scheme, I think, is a good to a very good defensive player. Jared Vanderbilt is a very good to great defensive player. Gabe Vinson is a good defensive player. Austin Reeves does his job on defense. He defense like Ruey had a really rough game against Lori Markinen on Wednesday, but he is capable as long as you don't make him track a shooter that's like his big that's his like his Achilles heel is. He just loses side of shooters. That's how Michael Porter Junior did so much damage to him in the past. So the Lakers actually have a lot of really good defensive players in their rotation. That's why they're guarding. They're guarding because they have a lot of really good defensive players. It's not because they're just playing hard and it's February. They have really good defensive players. They Now you add Luca into that equation, I'm not of the opinion that they're going to be a top ten defense either. I think they're going to be in the middle ten because they have a lot of really good defensive players and they're all really big. Now within the concept of switching, the reason why their defense has been working is they've been shutting off dribble penetration that comes naturally through screens. And watch them when they're actually locked in on defense. They do a great job of gapping. So like the guy will be looking to attack a match up, Let's say Isaiah Collier against Ruey hot Chamura, but instead of Isaiah Collier just driving right by Ruy hot Chamura while everyone's hugged up off the ball, they've got guys sitting in the get driving lane on both ends. And both of those dudes are six ' nine and both of those dudes can move, and so they get in there and they rotate back out to the shooter and they shut off that drible penetration. And because Luke is a very good rebounder, Lebron's a very good rebounder, Austin's a very good rebounder for a guard, Jared Vanderbilt is a very good rebounder. They're rebounding pretty well for small ball groups. I think before the Utah game they were like twelfth in the twelve and one span, which is eleven and two span, which is great for a small ball group to be rebounding that well. So, like they compete and they do all those things really well. The Denver matchup. The thing with the Denver matchup is they killed the Lakers with strength. They killed them because they were bigger and stronger than them all over the place. Go back two years ago. It's like Jamal Murray is just eating up Dennis Schroeder because he's too small, and Austin Reeves is guarding Michael Porter junior, and like, obviously there's a strength mismatch in terms of Anthony Davis under the basket with Nikola Jokic, this is a infinitely stronger basketball team. They're bigger at every position. They're like twenty thirty pounds heavier at every position than they were in years past. This is a team that presents a different, an entirely different challenge to the Denver Nuggets. So, like, to me, taking whatever what you saw in the last two years can basically be thrown away. You talked about Oklahoma City as an example of a team that will get the ball out of Luca's hands, or get the ball out of Lebron's hands. I actually really like that matchup for the Lakers, in large part because Lou Dort is the Lebron antidote. Lou Dort is the Luca antidote. Too bad, there's two of them now, and you've got to find a way to match up. It's gonna be Jalen Williams, and he's not gonna have much of a chance against either of those guys guarding them. Also, the big difference between this Laker team and the Dallas Maverick team that went to the finals last year, this Lakers team has substantially better play finishers. It's not Derek Jones Junior in PJ. Washington. Ruy Ha Chamura is shooting fifty three percent on unguarded catch and shoot jump shots this year. He is driving closeouts well. Austin can operate with an advantage, Luca can, Irxes me Lebron can operate with an advantage. Drian Phinney Smith is a knockdown, catch and shoot three guy that the Lakers could not generate catch and shoot threes for because they didn't have the dribble penetration for now, they do. Like to me, this Laker team is going to be a level of offense that I don't think we've actually seen before in terms of like having two supreme forward matchup attackers that can always get the defense in rotation while having a ton of play finishing around them. So, like you had talked about, like how you think the thunder have more skill and like more overall talent. Here's the thing. Lebron at the at this point is playing at a top ten level, Luca is somewhere between the second and third best player in the world. Austin Reeves is playing at like a top thirty level as of late. This Laker team has a lot more talent than people are willing to admit. There's a lot of really really good basketball players here. And so like I think the points you're making in terms of the matchup stuff, like, yeah, I do think that there's a speed advantage for Oklahoma City if they played in a series, there would be stretches where they would force turnovers and get out in transition. But you're also a very aggressive double teaming, gapping, trying to force turnover type of team against two of the very best players in NBA history for making defenses pay for being aggressive. And you've got all of these like three four inch thirty forty pound advantages all over the perimeter that could cause all sorts of problems in terms of the glass. Like, dude, dude, Luca Garza ate the Thunder alive last night underneath the basket. Luca Garza did because he's just bigger and stronger than those guys. Yeah, So, like I think, I think when we discussed the advantages again, like this is the debate, right, Carson, And like, for the record, I think I said this on my show the other day, and this is what I believe to be true. The Thunder are on the same tier as Denver and LA. To me, the reason why the Thunder are so much better in the regular season is they're all twenty three years old and super athletic, so they just run over teams with their athleticism in the regular season. To me, those three teams are on the same tier. All of them present different issues for each other, and I think the way you laid it out was a great way to explain the issues that those teams present to the Lakers. But the Lakers also present a lot of issues to them on the other end of the floor. The main reason why I'm keyed in specifically on Denver and Boston is Denver is the one team where I could actually see Jokic's advantages on the interior being superior to the advantages that Luca and Lebron could generate on the other side. I can see the case for that. And Boston is the one team that I think has the right types of lineups to truly space the Lakers out to where they're gapping and sitting and hel helping on their mismatch. Attacking wouldn't work as well. So like, those are the two teams that when I look at it, I'm like, oh, like this might be something the Lakers can't solve. But I do think even when we discuss that it's important to acknowledge like never an NBA history have we seen a team with shot creation like what the Lakers present while also having a bunch of dudes that can either knock down shots or drive closeouts or play with an advantage. And I do think that is going to be valuable every Game three where it's a series tied at one and it's ninety five ninety five with five minutes left in the fourth quarter. You got to find a way to guard Luca and Lebron for the last fifteen possessions of that game. And it's going to be a huge pain in the ass. And so like I also, I will this is the last thing I'll say about it. Then they'll pitch it back to your Carson. Yeah, I we don't know yet. Let's watch him play some basketball. Like there's going to be some combination of what they did in the previous few weeks where they were awesome on defense with the switching group and obviously factoring in Luca's defense of shortcomings, but also the things he brings to the table. They play the Jazz twice, that's one of the very worst teams in the league. I'm curious to see, Like, I'm not gonna rank them with those other teams until I see them play more. And but I just there's a big part of me that says, like, let's not overthink this, you know what I mean.

Okay, there's a lot to unpack there. I don't disagree when you're talking about the matchup with the Thunder, Like I think that the Nuggets are a significantly more problematic matchup for the Lakers. I'll disagree with the point that you made about them adding strength everywhere because they didn't add strength in the spot that matters most. They lost strength, They lost thirty pounds, They lost one of the guys who is one of the better Yokic defenders on the planet, no matter how much he's gotten torched eighty gets slandered for not stopping or offering any resistance to Yokic when nobody can do that. Jackson Hayes is going to get brutalized, absolutely brutalized. So that to me is the most significant thing. Like, I don't necessarily think the perimeter defenders who they have on the roster now pose any more resistance to Jamal Murray than the previous iterations. Like I don't necessarily disagree that Jamal wins with his strength at times. He also just wins a lot as a pull up shooter, and he wins a lot if you lose him coming around to screen and pick and roll with Jokic. And I think that the guys who they have now are worse equipped to defend in that way than previous iterations of perimeter defenders that we've seen for Lakers. And by the way, Jamal Murray didn't even play well against the Lakers last year and it was still a five game series, So that matchup. To me, it's just I don't see them getting the stops. It's two elite offenses, it is too, offenses that pose a lot of issues for one another. But I think that the Lakers match up worse now there, Like I think that just having it Davis alone, Yeah, I think it's true. Well, certainly defensively, it's so much worse. Offensively, it's a lot better.

Okay, there's a lot to unpack there. I don't disagree when you're talking about the matchup with the Thunder, Like I think that the Nuggets are a significantly more problematic matchup for the Lakers. I'll disagree with the point that you made about them adding strength everywhere because they didn't add strength in the spot that matters most. They lost strength, They lost thirty pounds, They lost one of the guys who is one of the better Yokic defenders on the planet, no matter how much he's gotten torched eighty gets slandered for not stopping or offering any resistance to Yokic when nobody can do that. Jackson Hayes is going to get brutalized, absolutely brutalized. So that to me is the most significant thing. Like, I don't necessarily think the perimeter defenders who they have on the roster now pose any more resistance to Jamal Murray than the previous iterations. Like I don't necessarily disagree that Jamal wins with his strength at times. He also just wins a lot as a pull up shooter, and he wins a lot if you lose him coming around to screen and pick and roll with Jokic. And I think that the guys who they have now are worse equipped to defend in that way than previous iterations of perimeter defenders that we've seen for Lakers. And by the way, Jamal Murray didn't even play well against the Lakers last year and it was still a five game series, So that matchup. To me, it's just I don't see them getting the stops. It's two elite offenses, it is too, offenses that pose a lot of issues for one another. But I think that the Lakers match up worse now there, Like I think that just having it Davis alone, Yeah, I think it's true. Well, certainly defensively, it's so much worse. Offensively, it's a lot better.

You think they're you think they had a better chance with the previous version of their team to beat down.

You think they're you think they had a better chance with the previous version of their team to beat down.

Yeah, I don't agree, right, I just because I disagree with that.

Yeah, I don't agree, right, I just because I disagree with that.

No, No, okay, I don't necessarily think that that's true.

No, No, okay, I don't necessarily think that that's true.

I think that.

I think that.

In both of those series too, their offense fell apart in both of those series at times like that was when they'd lose control. Like, there's this Laker team fundamentally presents a much much much, much, much much much much tougher challenge for Denver's defense than last the last two teams did.

In both of those series too, their offense fell apart in both of those series at times like that was when they'd lose control. Like, there's this Laker team fundamentally presents a much much much, much, much much much much tougher challenge for Denver's defense than last the last two teams did.

I completely agree. I completely agree. I think that the offense is clearly up a tier from where it was. But again, I think that the defense is worse suited for the matchup that was already the worst matchup in the league for them, that they just got shredded in over and over again, the Thunder. I think that you made a great point, and this is exactly what I said on our last show. We've never seen a combination on one roster of two all time great mismatch attackers like Luke and Lebron and two all time great playmakers like Luke and Lebron. There is no team saved maybe Boston, that has two dudes on the floor who can guard both of those players, and so it's a complete unique problem for defenses to face. I think I'm just higher on the totality of okc's team defense maybe than you are. Like I do think that this is a historic defense. I think that their speed is like something that we've never seen. I think their ability to force turnovers is like something that we've never seen. You can talk about them getting beat up on the glass. They're certainly improved there from last year. Right, they're like twentieth and rebound rate this year, which isn't great. But we've also only seen a few games of Chett and Hartenstein. Chet's still just playing his way back into form right. He certainly hasn't looked like the player we saw at the start of this year. Their rim protection still has been insane. They've been like the best rim protecting defense in basketball, even without Chett and Hartenstein sharing the floor almost this entire year. I don't think that we've seen a better built defense to trap and then rotate like crazy and cause havoc. So just as much as you can talk about Luke and Lebron being these absolute surgeons and geniuses picking apart defense as being overly aggressive, I agree, We've also never seen a team, certainly this century, be as good at being aggressive as good at weaponizing their speed as the Oklahoma City Thunder are right now. And I do think that the depth is just better. And that's the other thing you're talking about some of the good individual defenders with the Lakers. The challenge to me is finding the minutes for all of those guys, because you're going to play a ton of Luka Doncic, You're going to play a lot of Austin reefs who maybe you're higher on defensively than I. But I think that he's mediocre there, You're going to have to play a lot of minutes at Jackson Hayes's center, who is just fine. Like Ruey is still starting for.

I completely agree. I completely agree. I think that the offense is clearly up a tier from where it was. But again, I think that the defense is worse suited for the matchup that was already the worst matchup in the league for them, that they just got shredded in over and over again, the Thunder. I think that you made a great point, and this is exactly what I said on our last show. We've never seen a combination on one roster of two all time great mismatch attackers like Luke and Lebron and two all time great playmakers like Luke and Lebron. There is no team saved maybe Boston, that has two dudes on the floor who can guard both of those players, and so it's a complete unique problem for defenses to face. I think I'm just higher on the totality of okc's team defense maybe than you are. Like I do think that this is a historic defense. I think that their speed is like something that we've never seen. I think their ability to force turnovers is like something that we've never seen. You can talk about them getting beat up on the glass. They're certainly improved there from last year. Right, they're like twentieth and rebound rate this year, which isn't great. But we've also only seen a few games of Chett and Hartenstein. Chet's still just playing his way back into form right. He certainly hasn't looked like the player we saw at the start of this year. Their rim protection still has been insane. They've been like the best rim protecting defense in basketball, even without Chett and Hartenstein sharing the floor almost this entire year. I don't think that we've seen a better built defense to trap and then rotate like crazy and cause havoc. So just as much as you can talk about Luke and Lebron being these absolute surgeons and geniuses picking apart defense as being overly aggressive, I agree, We've also never seen a team, certainly this century, be as good at being aggressive as good at weaponizing their speed as the Oklahoma City Thunder are right now. And I do think that the depth is just better. And that's the other thing you're talking about some of the good individual defenders with the Lakers. The challenge to me is finding the minutes for all of those guys, because you're going to play a ton of Luka Doncic, You're going to play a lot of Austin reefs who maybe you're higher on defensively than I. But I think that he's mediocre there, You're going to have to play a lot of minutes at Jackson Hayes's center, who is just fine. Like Ruey is still starting for.

This, I don't think Jackson is going to play much. I think it's a seven man rotation mostly small ball. Look when you get to the postseason, like you were talking about them, talk that they will double Jokic. Problem they'll put they'll double Jokic and try to force Christian Brown and Russ to score. And by the way, I know they've been doing a really good job using those guys as cutters and slashers and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, my guess is JJ is gonna instead of trying to match Jokic's size, I think he's going to be like, let's play an entirely different style of basketball and see which style wins. I think that's gonna be the way that he's gonna go. And when they go small, it's a seven man group that they trust, Like Dalton's not gonna play, It'll be the five. It'll be the five starters except for Jackson will only be like a two shift player. He'll start the first quarter and start the third quarter. And it's gonna be a lot of Vando Gabe and in DFS Man. That's they're all six n and fifty pounds. They're they're they're not they're not tiny like they're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna present they're gonna present some issues for Denver.

This, I don't think Jackson is going to play much. I think it's a seven man rotation mostly small ball. Look when you get to the postseason, like you were talking about them, talk that they will double Jokic. Problem they'll put they'll double Jokic and try to force Christian Brown and Russ to score. And by the way, I know they've been doing a really good job using those guys as cutters and slashers and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, my guess is JJ is gonna instead of trying to match Jokic's size, I think he's going to be like, let's play an entirely different style of basketball and see which style wins. I think that's gonna be the way that he's gonna go. And when they go small, it's a seven man group that they trust, Like Dalton's not gonna play, It'll be the five. It'll be the five starters except for Jackson will only be like a two shift player. He'll start the first quarter and start the third quarter. And it's gonna be a lot of Vando Gabe and in DFS Man. That's they're all six n and fifty pounds. They're they're they're not they're not tiny like they're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna present they're gonna present some issues for Denver.

They're not tiny. But again, I think that if you are going to just double the ship out of Jokic, the way you do that most successfully is you do what the thunder haf and your fastest ship, and you rotate out to everybody and you force them to try to attack close outs and like you funnel them into your one rim protector. Like that's the sort of defense that's built to double Jokic like hell and force everybody else to beat them. I just don't think the Lakers are fast enough to do that. And still like, yeah, they're big for a small ball lineup, but again, rim protection against the team is as good cutting as the Nuggets.

They're not tiny. But again, I think that if you are going to just double the ship out of Jokic, the way you do that most successfully is you do what the thunder haf and your fastest ship, and you rotate out to everybody and you force them to try to attack close outs and like you funnel them into your one rim protector. Like that's the sort of defense that's built to double Jokic like hell and force everybody else to beat them. I just don't think the Lakers are fast enough to do that. And still like, yeah, they're big for a small ball lineup, but again, rim protection against the team is as good cutting as the Nuggets.

Are the title without REMP protection in twenty twenty three.

Are the title without REMP protection in twenty twenty three.

Yeah, that's true. They also had a historic offense and they ended up being this is going to be historical defense in total. I think it's going to be a great offense. I don't think it's going to be as great as Denver's offense is right now.

Yeah, that's true. They also had a historic offense and they ended up being this is going to be historical defense in total. I think it's going to be a great offense. I don't think it's going to be as great as Denver's offense is right now.

But Howard team's going to stop the Lakers.

But Howard team's going to stop the Lakers.

I don't think a lot of teams are going to stop the Lakers. I think the only way that the Lakers could run into any sort of offensive issues is if they have to try to play like a Van do Whin a Jackson Hayes simultaneously, which I don't think will see much of. It's interesting that you think Hayes is going to play that little because.

I don't think a lot of teams are going to stop the Lakers. I think the only way that the Lakers could run into any sort of offensive issues is if they have to try to play like a Van do Whin a Jackson Hayes simultaneously, which I don't think will see much of. It's interesting that you think Hayes is going to play that little because.

It'll be it depends on the matchup. It'll depend on the matchup. But my guess is they'll go down with Austin, Lebron, Luca, DFS and Ruie and so like. So let's talk through that. So you've got three dudes that are six eight or taller between two twenty and two sixty depending on the guy, Aey of Austin. How are teams going to be able to stop that team from getting good shots?

It'll be it depends on the matchup. It'll depend on the matchup. But my guess is they'll go down with Austin, Lebron, Luca, DFS and Ruie and so like. So let's talk through that. So you've got three dudes that are six eight or taller between two twenty and two sixty depending on the guy, Aey of Austin. How are teams going to be able to stop that team from getting good shots?

That's not at all my issue with this team. I literally said, I think that there'll be a and probably a top three offense. The distinction I would make is Denver didn't have high end rim protection they were a lot bigger still though, And like, even if you're talking about this Lakers team, like their biggest guy is the size of Denver's third biggest guy in twenty twenty three. It's Aaron Gordon, it's MPJ, and it's Jokic Sho. No, none of those guys individually are very good rimp protectors, but the aggregate size and length in the paint is still legitimately imposing. In the rebounding, It's not, oh, we think we can be average, it's worth the best rebounding team in the league. So those things I think are significantly different. I just think I see more defensive issues with this team in any iteration, probably than you do. I mean, I think that's the difference. I'm not gonna sit here and say that I have any concerns about the Lakers offense. I think it's a dominant offense, but I worry about the defense, and I worry a little bit more about the depth maybe compared to what I get to see.

That's not at all my issue with this team. I literally said, I think that there'll be a and probably a top three offense. The distinction I would make is Denver didn't have high end rim protection they were a lot bigger still though, And like, even if you're talking about this Lakers team, like their biggest guy is the size of Denver's third biggest guy in twenty twenty three. It's Aaron Gordon, it's MPJ, and it's Jokic Sho. No, none of those guys individually are very good rimp protectors, but the aggregate size and length in the paint is still legitimately imposing. In the rebounding, It's not, oh, we think we can be average, it's worth the best rebounding team in the league. So those things I think are significantly different. I just think I see more defensive issues with this team in any iteration, probably than you do. I mean, I think that's the difference. I'm not gonna sit here and say that I have any concerns about the Lakers offense. I think it's a dominant offense, but I worry about the defense, and I worry a little bit more about the depth maybe compared to what I get to see.

I get that. I want to be clear too, Like I I for the record, when I've watched Denver, my biggest concerns with them this year have been defense. Oh, by far and and like, honestly, like I think we're I think we're. You and I disagree, is I have ate the Lakers on the same tier with them, and you don't, Like, I don't know how I'm gonna feel. It is very possible that when I get to April, I rank them. Okay, see Denver Lakers, but I but I view them as on that tier, and I think, like, I think that like a lot of people are like rushing to like hyper focus on the weaknesses with this group, and it's like, it's like they're gonna be really fucking good, man, They're gonna be really good. Like they're good as they're there. They brought in Luke at a perfect time when they were playing a really good brand of basketball. Lucas slots perfectly into that brand of basketball. One of the big things that stood out to me in the last couple of weeks too, is like this like four out one in matchup attacking style of offense actually more falls in line with JJ's philosophies than the five out motion stuff. I actually thought Darvin was a little better with the five out motion stuff, believe it or not. And like JJ spent a bunch of time with the Celtics talking to like Joe Missoula, he was like considering getting onto that staff at one point in time. That's kind of JJ's basketball philosophy. And I think that that gear's really well to this particular roster and the way that they're going to play. Like, I think that we'll see a very different version of the offense in the future too, as they lean more into Luca and less into Lebron and Austin. Like, I think that this is a really nice fit, and I think, like, yeah, there's gonna be some issues, but I've also been really impressed with JJ's defensive game planning this year, and like, I'm just curious to see what his game plan is for Denver, And like one of the things that made that Denver unit so difficult to deal with in the playoffs was Contavious Calwell. Pope as just like a more well rounded offensive fifth guy, And like, JJ is going to cater his entire defensive game plan around how do we get the ball into Christian Brown, Christian Brown's hands or Russell Westbrook's hands as much as possible to try to limit them. And I know again, and they've been fighting that with cutting and and Christian's been unbelievable this year. Yeah, but like, but like, and I actually think Christian all around is a better player than Kntavious Calwell Pope. I'm strictly looking at slow down half court environments in the postseason. Big spots can jj game play in a way that forces the ball into an inferior offensive player's hands while also producing a lineup on the other end that there's no good answer for for Denver, If that makes sense, that's what you has.

I get that. I want to be clear too, Like I I for the record, when I've watched Denver, my biggest concerns with them this year have been defense. Oh, by far and and like, honestly, like I think we're I think we're. You and I disagree, is I have ate the Lakers on the same tier with them, and you don't, Like, I don't know how I'm gonna feel. It is very possible that when I get to April, I rank them. Okay, see Denver Lakers, but I but I view them as on that tier, and I think, like, I think that like a lot of people are like rushing to like hyper focus on the weaknesses with this group, and it's like, it's like they're gonna be really fucking good, man, They're gonna be really good. Like they're good as they're there. They brought in Luke at a perfect time when they were playing a really good brand of basketball. Lucas slots perfectly into that brand of basketball. One of the big things that stood out to me in the last couple of weeks too, is like this like four out one in matchup attacking style of offense actually more falls in line with JJ's philosophies than the five out motion stuff. I actually thought Darvin was a little better with the five out motion stuff, believe it or not. And like JJ spent a bunch of time with the Celtics talking to like Joe Missoula, he was like considering getting onto that staff at one point in time. That's kind of JJ's basketball philosophy. And I think that that gear's really well to this particular roster and the way that they're going to play. Like, I think that we'll see a very different version of the offense in the future too, as they lean more into Luca and less into Lebron and Austin. Like, I think that this is a really nice fit, and I think, like, yeah, there's gonna be some issues, but I've also been really impressed with JJ's defensive game planning this year, and like, I'm just curious to see what his game plan is for Denver, And like one of the things that made that Denver unit so difficult to deal with in the playoffs was Contavious Calwell. Pope as just like a more well rounded offensive fifth guy, And like, JJ is going to cater his entire defensive game plan around how do we get the ball into Christian Brown, Christian Brown's hands or Russell Westbrook's hands as much as possible to try to limit them. And I know again, and they've been fighting that with cutting and and Christian's been unbelievable this year. Yeah, but like, but like, and I actually think Christian all around is a better player than Kntavious Calwell Pope. I'm strictly looking at slow down half court environments in the postseason. Big spots can jj game play in a way that forces the ball into an inferior offensive player's hands while also producing a lineup on the other end that there's no good answer for for Denver, If that makes sense, that's what you has.

I actually just think that Christian Brown is a better offensive player than ksep.

I actually just think that Christian Brown is a better offensive player than ksep.

I think that were Denver in the regular season for sure, because of his athleticism.

I think that were Denver in the regular season for sure, because of his athleticism.

Yeah, but I also think that in terms of just like attacking a close out, getting something for himself off the bounce, even the flashes of pick and roll, Like, he's just more skilled and he's so so much better as a finisher. Like, Christian Brown is one of the better finishing guards in the NBA. He shoots sixty five percent on twos. I looked it up yesterday. He has the second highest field goal percentage in a season by a guard. The only dude who's better is Ben Simmons, who's six ' ten and didn't take any threes right, Like, it's incredible. He's third in transition points per game in the entire NBA. He's third in points per game off of cuts. So I think maybe you just have more concerns about Denver's shooting than I do, like in a playoff environment. To me, if you came into the year and you said, well, this is a super low volume three point shooting team that just lost one of their couple of best volume three point shooters in KCP, I would have said, yeah, I can see that being a concern, But they've just done such a phenomenal job of working around it to produce dominant, dominant offensive roles results. They have gotten so much better in other areas. They have so much more ball handling and playmaking than ever before. With Russ, they have more finishing, they have more cutting, They're so much better in transition. Yokis is even better, Like everybody in Denver's offense has been even better this year. So I think they're pretty clearly the best offense in basketball. To me, the entire conversation and with them and what they can be in a playoff setting starts and ends with defense, as it does with La I'm just even higher on Denver's offense than I am the Lakers. Should we just talk about Denver? Should we get to that?