The volume No Oh my god, how could he do that?

The volume No Oh my god, how could he do that?

By Charles Darwin. The Nerves is where it's at.

By Charles Darwin. The Nerves is where it's at.

Welcome everybody back in Herd set.

Welcome everybody back in Herd set.

As always, I'm Barson wherever in alongside the is Logan Camden and today we are joined by a special guest friend of the show who we've had on a few times before, Tyler aka Hoop Venue, who makes some of the best basketball content out there, tons of awesome film breakdowns on YouTube and now. Tyler is a part of the podcasting community like ourselves. He is an esteemed podcaster hosting the Hoop Venue podcast with Sean Davis, so everybody make sure to go check out all his stuff after we are done talking ball with him here. Tyler, very excited to have you on again. How are you doing today.

As always, I'm Barson wherever in alongside the is Logan Camden and today we are joined by a special guest friend of the show who we've had on a few times before, Tyler aka Hoop Venue, who makes some of the best basketball content out there, tons of awesome film breakdowns on YouTube and now. Tyler is a part of the podcasting community like ourselves. He is an esteemed podcaster hosting the Hoop Venue podcast with Sean Davis, so everybody make sure to go check out all his stuff after we are done talking ball with him here. Tyler, very excited to have you on again. How are you doing today.

Yeah, man, I'm doing great. Appreciate the invite. I'm excited to talk hoops with you guys. I think the last time I was on the show is when I got diced up in Trivia, so this is a good like good redemption for me with the Nerd Sash fan base.

Yeah, man, I'm doing great. Appreciate the invite. I'm excited to talk hoops with you guys. I think the last time I was on the show is when I got diced up in Trivia, so this is a good like good redemption for me with the Nerd Sash fan base.

So I'm excited to be here.

So I'm excited to be here.

I mean, you came with the King man, it was bold. You issued a challenge and listen, I answered, but yeah, today we'll be back to just talk in some basketball. No competition, but we've seen some great competition on the basketball court. Actually, because we got the NBA Cup going on right now. We had two games yesterday. We're into the knockout round, and I think definitely the more significant one because of the two teams who were playing was MAVs Thunder, and it offered us a little bit of insight into a potential Western Conference Finals this year and obviously a rematch of last year's Western Conference semi finals. So Tyler, we'll start with you. How close do you think Dallas is to Oka see as a contender?

I mean, you came with the King man, it was bold. You issued a challenge and listen, I answered, but yeah, today we'll be back to just talk in some basketball. No competition, but we've seen some great competition on the basketball court. Actually, because we got the NBA Cup going on right now. We had two games yesterday. We're into the knockout round, and I think definitely the more significant one because of the two teams who were playing was MAVs Thunder, and it offered us a little bit of insight into a potential Western Conference Finals this year and obviously a rematch of last year's Western Conference semi finals. So Tyler, we'll start with you. How close do you think Dallas is to Oka see as a contender?

Yeah, this is fresh on my mind because we actually just talked about this in our last episode. I kind of went on a ten minute little sermon on the MAVs and I talked about how I believe they have two superpowers. I think their first superpower is the fact that they have forty eight minutes of starter level basketball at the center position. Most teams don't have that. I think I went through all thirty and they were like four or five. Problem is, OKAC is one of the teams that does have that. When they have Chett and Hartenstein in the lineup. The other superpower I believe is that the MAVs have two all NBA level guards or all NBA level offensive players at the engine position, so they have forty eight minutes of that as well. The only team that I would say matches both of those is Cleveland with Mitchell and Garland and then Mobley and Allen. But the problem that I have with Dallas is I think they lack the ability to construct really really good three and D lineups in the way that like Boston completely mastered. Like I think Dallas's shooters are not defenders, and their defenders are players that have to prove they can be trusted as shooters, like PJ. Washington, Naji Marshall, And so for me, it's tough because I think OKAC has a few guys that I I don't trust as shooters yet, Like I need to see it from Lou Dorton, need to see it from Cason Wallace, need to see it from Cruso. But with J Dubb's defensive leap, now with him and Chet, they have two elite, elite defensive players that can reliably shoot, and I think that's kind of what pushes them. So when I did my power rankings, I kind of felt like Boston and OKAC are kind of in a tier of their own, but I think Dallas kind of heads tier two.

Yeah, this is fresh on my mind because we actually just talked about this in our last episode. I kind of went on a ten minute little sermon on the MAVs and I talked about how I believe they have two superpowers. I think their first superpower is the fact that they have forty eight minutes of starter level basketball at the center position. Most teams don't have that. I think I went through all thirty and they were like four or five. Problem is, OKAC is one of the teams that does have that. When they have Chett and Hartenstein in the lineup. The other superpower I believe is that the MAVs have two all NBA level guards or all NBA level offensive players at the engine position, so they have forty eight minutes of that as well. The only team that I would say matches both of those is Cleveland with Mitchell and Garland and then Mobley and Allen. But the problem that I have with Dallas is I think they lack the ability to construct really really good three and D lineups in the way that like Boston completely mastered. Like I think Dallas's shooters are not defenders, and their defenders are players that have to prove they can be trusted as shooters, like PJ. Washington, Naji Marshall, And so for me, it's tough because I think OKAC has a few guys that I I don't trust as shooters yet, Like I need to see it from Lou Dorton, need to see it from Cason Wallace, need to see it from Cruso. But with J Dubb's defensive leap, now with him and Chet, they have two elite, elite defensive players that can reliably shoot, and I think that's kind of what pushes them. So when I did my power rankings, I kind of felt like Boston and OKAC are kind of in a tier of their own, but I think Dallas kind of heads tier two.

Like I don't think Dallas is far.

Like I don't think Dallas is far.

I could see them beating OKAC in a playoff series, but I do think there's a sizeable gap there between, just like the depth of the two way ability on the roster.

I could see them beating OKAC in a playoff series, but I do think there's a sizeable gap there between, just like the depth of the two way ability on the roster.

That's interesting. See you have Dallas over Denver.

That's interesting. See you have Dallas over Denver.

I do have Dallas over de I just moved on that last week. I think my final list was Boston, OKC, Cleveland, Dallas, Memphis I think was my top five.

I do have Dallas over de I just moved on that last week. I think my final list was Boston, OKC, Cleveland, Dallas, Memphis I think was my top five.

Wow, Okay, that's fascinating. I do agree with you on the superpowers point though. I think that's a great point because even when they were down last night against Oklahoma City, it seemed like it was an almost insurmountable lead. Dallas just goes on this run where they cut the lead to eight, right, Obviously they end up losing this one. You need Luca to be way better. But I think the Mavericks are three for me out West, just behind Denver. I consider them to be legitimate championship contenders, and I don't know if I'm as concerned about the lineup issues, I agree with you, Tyler. I think that there are teams that do it better than Dallas because they are better two way guys. But I think Luca and Kyrie can be very similar to what they did in this run last year. I think those guys can pull their weight enough with the surrounding pieces. I think that they are so good with their anchors on both sides of the floor, like you mentioned, with Luca and Kyrie offensively, with Gafford and Lively defensively. I think some things would have to break their way, but I could see it. I think Dallas is good enough to make another run this year. I wholeheartedly consider them a contender.

Wow, Okay, that's fascinating. I do agree with you on the superpowers point though. I think that's a great point because even when they were down last night against Oklahoma City, it seemed like it was an almost insurmountable lead. Dallas just goes on this run where they cut the lead to eight, right, Obviously they end up losing this one. You need Luca to be way better. But I think the Mavericks are three for me out West, just behind Denver. I consider them to be legitimate championship contenders, and I don't know if I'm as concerned about the lineup issues, I agree with you, Tyler. I think that there are teams that do it better than Dallas because they are better two way guys. But I think Luca and Kyrie can be very similar to what they did in this run last year. I think those guys can pull their weight enough with the surrounding pieces. I think that they are so good with their anchors on both sides of the floor, like you mentioned, with Luca and Kyrie offensively, with Gafford and Lively defensively. I think some things would have to break their way, but I could see it. I think Dallas is good enough to make another run this year. I wholeheartedly consider them a contender.

I consider them a contender too, and I think that they are within shouting distance of Oka. See They're definitely not an equal, but I do see a world in which.

I consider them a contender too, and I think that they are within shouting distance of Oka. See They're definitely not an equal, but I do see a world in which.

They could win that series.

They could win that series.

I think it's a long shot, but I don't think it's impossible, and I'm gonna agree with you, Tyler. I do have Dallas as my number two team in the West now, and one of my big takes of the offseason was Denver's the second best team in the West still Dallas is third until we see a significantly better version of Jamal Murray. I just don't think that I can continue to uphold that take. Like the depth in Dallas is so excellent. You mentioned the forty eight minutes of quality center play, the two Star one Superstar Creator aspect, and I do really like their role players.

I think it's a long shot, but I don't think it's impossible, and I'm gonna agree with you, Tyler. I do have Dallas as my number two team in the West now, and one of my big takes of the offseason was Denver's the second best team in the West still Dallas is third until we see a significantly better version of Jamal Murray. I just don't think that I can continue to uphold that take. Like the depth in Dallas is so excellent. You mentioned the forty eight minutes of quality center play, the two Star one Superstar Creator aspect, and I do really like their role players.

Now.

Now.

I don't think that they're perfect role players, but Naji Marshall has just been an absolute home run for them. I do really like PJ. I just think they're a better basketball team right now. But compared to OKAC, I think that there are a lot of key differences compared to last year that have swung an Okac's favor, both when we look at these teams in a vacuum and when we look at the specific matchup, because obviously Dallas beat Okay last year, but some of those key changes. Number One, last year, Dallas was really able to dictate the glass in that matchup because OKAC was the worst rebounding team in basketball. Arguably, Dallas was basically plus three per game on the offensive glass in that series. With the introduction of Isaiah Hartenstein, I just don't think that that's gonna hold. And in fact, yesterday it was OKCE that dominated the offensive glass.

I don't think that they're perfect role players, but Naji Marshall has just been an absolute home run for them. I do really like PJ. I just think they're a better basketball team right now. But compared to OKAC, I think that there are a lot of key differences compared to last year that have swung an Okac's favor, both when we look at these teams in a vacuum and when we look at the specific matchup, because obviously Dallas beat Okay last year, but some of those key changes. Number One, last year, Dallas was really able to dictate the glass in that matchup because OKAC was the worst rebounding team in basketball. Arguably, Dallas was basically plus three per game on the offensive glass in that series. With the introduction of Isaiah Hartenstein, I just don't think that that's gonna hold. And in fact, yesterday it was OKCE that dominated the offensive glass.

They were plus ten.

They were plus ten.

So Hartenstein is just such a difference maker physically on the glass. I think that that dynamic has totally changed this year number two. Last year, OKC players not named SGA made thirty percent of their threes in that series, and as a team they made eleven threes per game. And that wasn't just problematic because they were leaving points on the board from beyond the arc. It also totally changed how Dallas was able to guard Oka.

So Hartenstein is just such a difference maker physically on the glass. I think that that dynamic has totally changed this year number two. Last year, OKC players not named SGA made thirty percent of their threes in that series, and as a team they made eleven threes per game. And that wasn't just problematic because they were leaving points on the board from beyond the arc. It also totally changed how Dallas was able to guard Oka.

See right.

See right.

We tend to think of it as sort of the giddy problem, where you can just stick a center on him on him and totally roam off so you have the paint loaded up at all times. But it was much deeper than that because almost the entire OKC reporting cast struggle to make outside shots. So the low man was constantly roaming and being super impactful as a help defender, keeping SGA and Jadub from getting clean looks at the rim, forcing them to live with a more mid range, heavy shot diet, and SGA was still able to kill it in that environment, but Jadub couldn't, and the OKC offense as a whole wasn't good enough.

We tend to think of it as sort of the giddy problem, where you can just stick a center on him on him and totally roam off so you have the paint loaded up at all times. But it was much deeper than that because almost the entire OKC reporting cast struggle to make outside shots. So the low man was constantly roaming and being super impactful as a help defender, keeping SGA and Jadub from getting clean looks at the rim, forcing them to live with a more mid range, heavy shot diet, and SGA was still able to kill it in that environment, but Jadub couldn't, and the OKC offense as a whole wasn't good enough.

Well.

Well.

Last night, Okase made twenty threes at a forty percent clip. So I'm not saying that this team is going to be consistently great in terms of outside shooting. In fact, I think if you have one question mark about OKC, especially when I hold them up against Boston viewing them as the two top tier title contenders, it is can they keep up in that three point race? But they should absolutely be better than last year because I think they have a better shooting roster, and I also do think they did uncharacteristically struggle to shoot the ball in that series.

Last night, Okase made twenty threes at a forty percent clip. So I'm not saying that this team is going to be consistently great in terms of outside shooting. In fact, I think if you have one question mark about OKC, especially when I hold them up against Boston viewing them as the two top tier title contenders, it is can they keep up in that three point race? But they should absolutely be better than last year because I think they have a better shooting roster, and I also do think they did uncharacteristically struggle to shoot the ball in that series.

Last year. It was a really bad three point shooting series. Number three. Key factor that's changed.

Last year. It was a really bad three point shooting series. Number three. Key factor that's changed.

I think that Jadab and Chet are both significantly better players than last year, and I expect them both to play much better. Jadab has taken that leap to just unassailable All Star. He's giving you twenty two, six and five on sixty percent true shooting. You mentioned the defensive leap he's taken. I think he's also clearly improved offensively. He's shooting fifty three percent from mid range this year, and I still think is one of the more underrated three level scores and just all around star impact basketball players on the planet. This guy does basically everything at a high level and then chit. This year is just like an entirely new beast. And I understand the raw numbers don't look crazy anymore, and obviously he's hurt right now, but I thought that he entered this year with a completely new level of confidence attacking off the bounce. He also had an uncharacteristically bad three point shooting last series against Dallas, and one thing that he struggled with against Dallas was they were able to switch everything and he couldn't punish mismatches right. And I still don't think he's gonna do that as like some sort of physical post player. But I just think when he's this confident as a driver, when he's this aggressive as an on ball scorer and scorer overall, I think that he can punish Dallas much more and just be a more consistent offensive presence. So they have a legitimate superstar in SGA who can go toe to toe with Luca and soundly outplayed him last night and outplayed him in their head to head series last year. I don't think he's better than Luca, but he has outplayed him over the last eight games that we've seen from them had to head. They've got two legitimate stars alongside him. Now, that's what I think Jadab and Chet have become, and I don't think they were that last year. They're better on the glass, they're better shooting. I love the skill sets of their role players. And I don't think there's a defense better built to guard Dallas than the Oklahoma City Thunder. First of all, I just don't think there's a better defense in the league. The fact that they're still comfortably the number one defense and they haven't had Chet for so long, and they haven't had Chet and Hartenstein on the floor together for a single minute in this regular season, Like that's incredible on its own, but also some of the specific components they have, In my opinion, the best Luca defender in basketball in lou Dort with just how physically he's able to play him. I think that they have the deep group of high level perimeter defenders in basketball. When you factor in Jada the menace that he is, Caeson Wallace, He's a menace. Caruso obviously is an elite perimeter defender. Sga is not necessarily purely perimeter impact with him, but a guy who can guard on the perimeter and is another clear plus defender. So when they're blitzing Kyrie and Luca, which they've done more than anybody in basketball, right, I mean, last year's series was literally just we're forcing the ball out of their hands and daring anybody else to make shots, and they did. PJ Washington especially did make shots. But when they are blitzing those guys, like hell, there is not a more pestering, more active, or a quicker.

I think that Jadab and Chet are both significantly better players than last year, and I expect them both to play much better. Jadab has taken that leap to just unassailable All Star. He's giving you twenty two, six and five on sixty percent true shooting. You mentioned the defensive leap he's taken. I think he's also clearly improved offensively. He's shooting fifty three percent from mid range this year, and I still think is one of the more underrated three level scores and just all around star impact basketball players on the planet. This guy does basically everything at a high level and then chit. This year is just like an entirely new beast. And I understand the raw numbers don't look crazy anymore, and obviously he's hurt right now, but I thought that he entered this year with a completely new level of confidence attacking off the bounce. He also had an uncharacteristically bad three point shooting last series against Dallas, and one thing that he struggled with against Dallas was they were able to switch everything and he couldn't punish mismatches right. And I still don't think he's gonna do that as like some sort of physical post player. But I just think when he's this confident as a driver, when he's this aggressive as an on ball scorer and scorer overall, I think that he can punish Dallas much more and just be a more consistent offensive presence. So they have a legitimate superstar in SGA who can go toe to toe with Luca and soundly outplayed him last night and outplayed him in their head to head series last year. I don't think he's better than Luca, but he has outplayed him over the last eight games that we've seen from them had to head. They've got two legitimate stars alongside him. Now, that's what I think Jadab and Chet have become, and I don't think they were that last year. They're better on the glass, they're better shooting. I love the skill sets of their role players. And I don't think there's a defense better built to guard Dallas than the Oklahoma City Thunder. First of all, I just don't think there's a better defense in the league. The fact that they're still comfortably the number one defense and they haven't had Chet for so long, and they haven't had Chet and Hartenstein on the floor together for a single minute in this regular season, Like that's incredible on its own, but also some of the specific components they have, In my opinion, the best Luca defender in basketball in lou Dort with just how physically he's able to play him. I think that they have the deep group of high level perimeter defenders in basketball. When you factor in Jada the menace that he is, Caeson Wallace, He's a menace. Caruso obviously is an elite perimeter defender. Sga is not necessarily purely perimeter impact with him, but a guy who can guard on the perimeter and is another clear plus defender. So when they're blitzing Kyrie and Luca, which they've done more than anybody in basketball, right, I mean, last year's series was literally just we're forcing the ball out of their hands and daring anybody else to make shots, and they did. PJ Washington especially did make shots. But when they are blitzing those guys, like hell, there is not a more pestering, more active, or a quicker.

Defense in the NBA.

Defense in the NBA.

And that applies in terms of both forcing those guys into turnovers making them uncomfortable, but also their ability to rotate and challenge these shooters, right Negate what should be clear advantages because they're just that fast and long and athletic and feisty, and now you mentioned Tyler, they have the forty eight awesome minutes of big play to match Dallas's strength there. I'm not saying that Dallas can't win that series, but I think it's a much longer path to victory. I really think that OKAC is an exceptional basketball team. I think Dallas is better than last year, but I think oka See is way way better than last year.

And that applies in terms of both forcing those guys into turnovers making them uncomfortable, but also their ability to rotate and challenge these shooters, right Negate what should be clear advantages because they're just that fast and long and athletic and feisty, and now you mentioned Tyler, they have the forty eight awesome minutes of big play to match Dallas's strength there. I'm not saying that Dallas can't win that series, but I think it's a much longer path to victory. I really think that OKAC is an exceptional basketball team. I think Dallas is better than last year, but I think oka See is way way better than last year.

Totally agreed. Totally agreed.

Totally agreed. Totally agreed.

So if there is a path to victory for Dallas, what are the key components to that in your guys eyes.

So if there is a path to victory for Dallas, what are the key components to that in your guys eyes.

I think it starts with winning the shooting battle.

I think it starts with winning the shooting battle.

Like you said, like same thing as last year, Like they need the role players to be hitting their shots, and I think that actually would get rid of the concern that I have had with them, like the three and D thing, Like if Naji Marshall and PJ. Washington are hitting their threes, that's no longer really a factor because now you have the versatile three and D role player you're looking for. So I think it starts with that, and then I also think you're gonna need big scoring series from Kyrie Luca because Okayc's defense is just so suffocating and they force so many turnovers that when they get into that blitzing system you're talking about, it forces role players to make tough decisions, and in order to make decisions against that level of defense, you have to be just a super high level processor. That's what Luca's superhuman ability is, So you're gonna need him to really really zone in and honestly like it kind of sounds counterintuitive, but like you almost want more Luca ball dominance in a series like that because you need him to protect the ball and make the right reads.

Like you said, like same thing as last year, Like they need the role players to be hitting their shots, and I think that actually would get rid of the concern that I have had with them, like the three and D thing, Like if Naji Marshall and PJ. Washington are hitting their threes, that's no longer really a factor because now you have the versatile three and D role player you're looking for. So I think it starts with that, and then I also think you're gonna need big scoring series from Kyrie Luca because Okayc's defense is just so suffocating and they force so many turnovers that when they get into that blitzing system you're talking about, it forces role players to make tough decisions, and in order to make decisions against that level of defense, you have to be just a super high level processor. That's what Luca's superhuman ability is, So you're gonna need him to really really zone in and honestly like it kind of sounds counterintuitive, but like you almost want more Luca ball dominance in a series like that because you need him to protect the ball and make the right reads.

Well, I think that's probably the biggest component. I think Luca has to soundly outplay SGA. What do you guys think about the scheme that Dallas implemented in the playoffs last year with Jason Kidd when they kept blitzing SGA. What do you do defensively against ok see? Do you guys still think that's the best avenue to slowing them down trying to get the ball out of his hands and force other guys to kill you.

Well, I think that's probably the biggest component. I think Luca has to soundly outplay SGA. What do you guys think about the scheme that Dallas implemented in the playoffs last year with Jason Kidd when they kept blitzing SGA. What do you do defensively against ok see? Do you guys still think that's the best avenue to slowing them down trying to get the ball out of his hands and force other guys to kill you.

Probably for now, I would say their rim protection is just so elite. But again, I think that it's going to be an issue of OKC is probably gonna shoot better this year, and I think it's harder to live with those defensive looks when you're rolling off of guys when they're knocking down those perimeter shots.

Probably for now, I would say their rim protection is just so elite. But again, I think that it's going to be an issue of OKC is probably gonna shoot better this year, and I think it's harder to live with those defensive looks when you're rolling off of guys when they're knocking down those perimeter shots.

I think I think they should. What I would do personally is like similar to what Miami would do with Trey Young, where they would just really, really really aggressively sink into the gaps and take away the elbow drives. And basically try and force SGA into making skip passes, because I feel like if you want to point to one weakness with Shay, it would be like high level playmaking reads and that just goes to show how the lead of a player he is, if that's what you have to focus on. But I think like if you can force him into making tougher passes over the top of defenders sitting in the gaps, because Dallas has a lot of size, Like for all of Luca's flaws, He's huge, PJ. Washington's big, Nase, He's big. Clay even is pretty big. He's six seven, So like they have a ton of size that they can really sink in the gaps and just kind of force those guys into making tougher long range passes. I think would be the ideal coverage.

I think I think they should. What I would do personally is like similar to what Miami would do with Trey Young, where they would just really, really really aggressively sink into the gaps and take away the elbow drives. And basically try and force SGA into making skip passes, because I feel like if you want to point to one weakness with Shay, it would be like high level playmaking reads and that just goes to show how the lead of a player he is, if that's what you have to focus on. But I think like if you can force him into making tougher passes over the top of defenders sitting in the gaps, because Dallas has a lot of size, Like for all of Luca's flaws, He's huge, PJ. Washington's big, Nase, He's big. Clay even is pretty big. He's six seven, So like they have a ton of size that they can really sink in the gaps and just kind of force those guys into making tougher long range passes. I think would be the ideal coverage.

Well, I feel like that's more specifically what they did last year in the playoffs.

Well, I feel like that's more specifically what they did last year in the playoffs.

Here's right.

Here's right.

It wasn't a ton of blitzing on SGA's just Hey, you're gonna see multiple bodies in the paint on every drive and you're not going to be able to get deep into the teeth of the defense, and we are going to test your ability to make skip passes. And even though I thought Sja was more suspect as a decision maker and playmaker in the Pelican series, I actually thought he was quite good in that series against Dallas as a passer. I just thought the offense around him stagnated and the shot making wasn't there from the other guys, and the decision making wasn't there from the other guys. So I think that Dallas has a good formula to test Okase's offense. I just think they're a better offense. And I think if Sga plays better and Jadub plays better and Chet plays better specifically because Sga was already really good, but if those supporting offensive pieces are better and more capable as creators specifically, I think it's going to be really tough to beat that team. But I do think Dallas's path has to be Lucas absolutely the best player on the floor, and you talk about the massive scoring numbers that they're gonna need from him and Kyrie, I agree. I think Kyrie would pretty soundly have to outplay Ja. It's just hard because we know that OKAC is going to do everything they can to force the ball out of those guys' hands. To make them more playmakers than scorers, but not even playmakers where they are getting the assist right, get the ball out to a short roller and that guy has to make the decision things like that, where they're taking the offensive power out of their hands. I think that they need to win the shooting battle. As you said, Tyler, I think he probably need Okac to go cold. And this is just a take that I have with Dallas long term, and I'm interested in your guys thoughts. I think they should be starting Nausei Marshall, and I said this preseason. I thought they should have started Nausey over Clay. Not because I think that nause is necessarily a better player than Clay in a vacuum, although I think he has been this year because of how good he's been offensively and Clay hasn't been his best this year, but also because I think you're just best served having your best perimeter defender alongside the Luka Kyrie backcourt. Instead of saying, hey, we're gonna have a med defender out there in Clay, who's our third best offensive player, I think you're better off having nause to be able to take on those lead perimeter matchups and then stagger your minutes a little bit more. Where you have Kyrie and Clay out there on the floor together, you have Luca and Clay, but you don't necessarily need all three of them out there. And Nause's just been so good and specifically in this matchup, I feel like his asset that's so valuable is oksee is rotating so quickly and they're closing out so hard. I mean, this is a guy who can really attack off the catch, right. He's not a great shooter, but his ability to get into the lane and hit those floaters.

It wasn't a ton of blitzing on SGA's just Hey, you're gonna see multiple bodies in the paint on every drive and you're not going to be able to get deep into the teeth of the defense, and we are going to test your ability to make skip passes. And even though I thought Sja was more suspect as a decision maker and playmaker in the Pelican series, I actually thought he was quite good in that series against Dallas as a passer. I just thought the offense around him stagnated and the shot making wasn't there from the other guys, and the decision making wasn't there from the other guys. So I think that Dallas has a good formula to test Okase's offense. I just think they're a better offense. And I think if Sga plays better and Jadub plays better and Chet plays better specifically because Sga was already really good, but if those supporting offensive pieces are better and more capable as creators specifically, I think it's going to be really tough to beat that team. But I do think Dallas's path has to be Lucas absolutely the best player on the floor, and you talk about the massive scoring numbers that they're gonna need from him and Kyrie, I agree. I think Kyrie would pretty soundly have to outplay Ja. It's just hard because we know that OKAC is going to do everything they can to force the ball out of those guys' hands. To make them more playmakers than scorers, but not even playmakers where they are getting the assist right, get the ball out to a short roller and that guy has to make the decision things like that, where they're taking the offensive power out of their hands. I think that they need to win the shooting battle. As you said, Tyler, I think he probably need Okac to go cold. And this is just a take that I have with Dallas long term, and I'm interested in your guys thoughts. I think they should be starting Nausei Marshall, and I said this preseason. I thought they should have started Nausey over Clay. Not because I think that nause is necessarily a better player than Clay in a vacuum, although I think he has been this year because of how good he's been offensively and Clay hasn't been his best this year, but also because I think you're just best served having your best perimeter defender alongside the Luka Kyrie backcourt. Instead of saying, hey, we're gonna have a med defender out there in Clay, who's our third best offensive player, I think you're better off having nause to be able to take on those lead perimeter matchups and then stagger your minutes a little bit more. Where you have Kyrie and Clay out there on the floor together, you have Luca and Clay, but you don't necessarily need all three of them out there. And Nause's just been so good and specifically in this matchup, I feel like his asset that's so valuable is oksee is rotating so quickly and they're closing out so hard. I mean, this is a guy who can really attack off the catch, right. He's not a great shooter, but his ability to get into the lane and hit those floaters.

Or also to make a decision, he's a good passer.

Or also to make a decision, he's a good passer.

I just think he's a very complete basketball player, and I think he more specifically fits the needs of that Dallas starting lineup, especially in this matchup, because I thought that Clay was kind of getting flumbayed by SGA when he was on him.

I just think he's a very complete basketball player, and I think he more specifically fits the needs of that Dallas starting lineup, especially in this matchup, because I thought that Clay was kind of getting flumbayed by SGA when he was on him.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, I agree.

I think the biggest thing that you mentioned is the ability to attack and make decisions. I think Nause is significantly more efficient in his touches than Clay. So Clay has like the crazy value just from spacing and shooting alone movement, but I think in a series like that like, especially where Luke is going to be heavily played for forty feet, Kyrie is going to be constant pressure. You kind of need that other ball handler that can really just like alleviate the pressure, make the right decisions, get the offense set up properly. And I think that's what Nause offers, Like, I think he's a legitimately capable initiator and ball handler that kind of can diversify their offense in a way that Clay can't. And then, like you mentioned, they desperately need that defense, Like how are how else are you going to handle Shay and Jadub if one of those guys is seeing just a significantly weaker defender.

I think the biggest thing that you mentioned is the ability to attack and make decisions. I think Nause is significantly more efficient in his touches than Clay. So Clay has like the crazy value just from spacing and shooting alone movement, but I think in a series like that like, especially where Luke is going to be heavily played for forty feet, Kyrie is going to be constant pressure. You kind of need that other ball handler that can really just like alleviate the pressure, make the right decisions, get the offense set up properly. And I think that's what Nause offers, Like, I think he's a legitimately capable initiator and ball handler that kind of can diversify their offense in a way that Clay can't. And then, like you mentioned, they desperately need that defense, Like how are how else are you going to handle Shay and Jadub if one of those guys is seeing just a significantly weaker defender.

Yeah, I agree. And it's not like you're eliminating Clay from the lineup right, You're still gonna be giving him twenty to twenty five minutes to night, so you're still getting good value. I agree. I think it makes more sense to have Nause out there.

Yeah, I agree. And it's not like you're eliminating Clay from the lineup right, You're still gonna be giving him twenty to twenty five minutes to night, so you're still getting good value. I agree. I think it makes more sense to have Nause out there.

Well, we've talked about the top dogs out West. Let's talk about the other team that we hinted at earlier. It was certainly expected to be in these conversations before the year, at least I expected them to be but right now they're sitting at twelve and ten. They lost to the Washington Wizards a few days ago, which we haven't had a chance to talk about yet, and that is the Denver Nuggets. So Logan, I'll start with you on this one. What needs to change for Denver to look like true contenders?

Well, we've talked about the top dogs out West. Let's talk about the other team that we hinted at earlier. It was certainly expected to be in these conversations before the year, at least I expected them to be but right now they're sitting at twelve and ten. They lost to the Washington Wizards a few days ago, which we haven't had a chance to talk about yet, and that is the Denver Nuggets. So Logan, I'll start with you on this one. What needs to change for Denver to look like true contenders?

I don't think a whole lot. I still have them as my number two team in the West. I have them over Dallas the most importantly. They have the best player in the league, Nicole Jokic, is the best scorer of the best playmaker in basketball, and arguably the best rebounder. And a lot of the variables I think you may have had questions about with Denver coming into this season have been really positive. I love how Christian Brown has come in and fit in and plays his role. Over the last ten He's given you fifteen to five and two really efficiently. The guy is a dog defensively and he does his job offensively. I think he's fit in really well here. I've liked how Russell Westbrook has looked. Russell was probably my biggest question mark about this team, and he's gotten better consistently as the season has gone along, and I think Michael Porter Junior has looked a lot better. The big difference, like you've mentioned during the Dallas segment, Carson, Jamal Murray just needs to look like championship Jamal Murray. During the title run, Jamal Murray was giving you twenty six points, six rebounders, six rebounds, and seven assists a night on forty seven percent from the field and thirty seven percent from deep. I mean, that's just a completely different basketball player when the playoffs come along. And Jokic deserved all the credit in the world because that was one of the greatest championship runs I think from any player in NBA history. It was a historic championship run. But Nicola jokicch couldn't have done that without Jamal Murray hitting all these big shots and coming up clutch in every single big spot. That to me, is the only difference. Like, like, if we were living in a perfect world, I would love if they had like an impactful two way back up big Tyler. You were talking about the forty eight minutes of quality big play. The Nuggets benches always sucked. Everybody knows that, But you know, the ideal guy is kind of like who Oklahoma City added to their rotation. The perfect fit because a guy like Isaiah Hartenside, who could come in and give you twenty to twenty five a night. Everybody points to him, but he is hard and time, would be a perfect fit off the bench, right, and they.

I don't think a whole lot. I still have them as my number two team in the West. I have them over Dallas the most importantly. They have the best player in the league, Nicole Jokic, is the best scorer of the best playmaker in basketball, and arguably the best rebounder. And a lot of the variables I think you may have had questions about with Denver coming into this season have been really positive. I love how Christian Brown has come in and fit in and plays his role. Over the last ten He's given you fifteen to five and two really efficiently. The guy is a dog defensively and he does his job offensively. I think he's fit in really well here. I've liked how Russell Westbrook has looked. Russell was probably my biggest question mark about this team, and he's gotten better consistently as the season has gone along, and I think Michael Porter Junior has looked a lot better. The big difference, like you've mentioned during the Dallas segment, Carson, Jamal Murray just needs to look like championship Jamal Murray. During the title run, Jamal Murray was giving you twenty six points, six rebounders, six rebounds, and seven assists a night on forty seven percent from the field and thirty seven percent from deep. I mean, that's just a completely different basketball player when the playoffs come along. And Jokic deserved all the credit in the world because that was one of the greatest championship runs I think from any player in NBA history. It was a historic championship run. But Nicola jokicch couldn't have done that without Jamal Murray hitting all these big shots and coming up clutch in every single big spot. That to me, is the only difference. Like, like, if we were living in a perfect world, I would love if they had like an impactful two way back up big Tyler. You were talking about the forty eight minutes of quality big play. The Nuggets benches always sucked. Everybody knows that, But you know, the ideal guy is kind of like who Oklahoma City added to their rotation. The perfect fit because a guy like Isaiah Hartenside, who could come in and give you twenty to twenty five a night. Everybody points to him, but he is hard and time, would be a perfect fit off the bench, right, and they.

Had him they did.

Had him they did.

They also had jehoff well and big Nrk true and of course well they could have chosen Nerk.

They also had jehoff well and big Nrk true and of course well they could have chosen Nerk.

Over Yokis, so at least they got yeah a spot.

Over Yokis, so at least they got yeah a spot.

Yeah yeah, so ideally they'd have that. But I think the biggest component to the Nuggets figuring out their championship recipe again is just Jamal Murray playing at that level in the playoffs.

Yeah yeah, so ideally they'd have that. But I think the biggest component to the Nuggets figuring out their championship recipe again is just Jamal Murray playing at that level in the playoffs.

Uh.

Uh.

The reason, though, I want to be clear about something, The reason the Nuggets are still number two to me in the West, we've seen the championship formula work before. But also it just the biggest component is just I have so much more faith in Jokic than I do Luca right now, That's the reason that they're number two is the gap between those two guys. Jokic is just so far and away that the best player around the planet, respect to Giannis, but to me, Jokic is heading shoulders the best guy on the planet. And that's most importantly why they're number two.

The reason, though, I want to be clear about something, The reason the Nuggets are still number two to me in the West, we've seen the championship formula work before. But also it just the biggest component is just I have so much more faith in Jokic than I do Luca right now, That's the reason that they're number two is the gap between those two guys. Jokic is just so far and away that the best player around the planet, respect to Giannis, but to me, Jokic is heading shoulders the best guy on the planet. And that's most importantly why they're number two.

To me, Yeah, I pretty much agree with every everything you said there. Like I think people overstate how much of a difference there is between this roster and the twenty twenty three roster. Like KCP has essentially been replaced by Christian Brown. Say what you will about what that difference makes. I'd actually argue Christian Brown right now is playing better than casep ever did with the Nuggets. I don't think he's the same type of floor spacer or off ball mover, but he replaces that value in other areas, like especially like as a downhill presence in transition, playing off of cuts like Christian Brown has just been awesome. And then you kind of replace Bruce Brown with Russell Westbrook. Again it's a different look, but Russell Westbrook and Jokic have had an incredible dynamic. Like I said this going into the season, I was like, Westbrook's maybe his best asset over the last few years has been the way he creates short mid range opportunities for his bigs like Zoo, Robin Lopez, all of those guys just had a significant lead to their short mid range attempts. When Westbrook was playing pick and roll with them, and I think a big reason why we're seeing Yokic ever's thirty two points a game is he's getting three or more three or four more points off of these bunnies from Westbrook. So I think there's a lot to love with the roster. They've kept their core four together from the championship. I think Julian Strather's looked really good. I think Peyton Watson's been phenomenal defensively. I just simply agree it comes down to ken Jamal Murray get back to that level. And this start for Murray isn't exactly uncharacteristic. He's done this before, so there is still some faith in that he can get back to that level. Some interesting numbers that I was thinking about, like in the championship season, they started fourteen to eight. Right now they're twelve to ten and Jokic missed three games. I think, so they could very well have the exact same record as they did in their championship year. Also, the Nuggets in that championship year had a plus twelve net rating with Jokic on the floor. They have a plus eleven net rating with Yokic on the floor. This season pretty much the same caliber of team when Jokic is on the court. And the final thing for me is I don't worry as much about the forty eight minutes of high level center play from the Nuggets, just because we've seen in the playoffs Jokic is gonna play forty one forty two minutes a game, and he's gonna do that well. And I think what makes the Nuggets such a tough out is that, like when Yokic is playing forty two minutes, in order to knock them out, you pretty much have to win the Jokic minutes, and teams don't do that, Like even okay See would struggle to win the Jokic minutes.

To me, Yeah, I pretty much agree with every everything you said there. Like I think people overstate how much of a difference there is between this roster and the twenty twenty three roster. Like KCP has essentially been replaced by Christian Brown. Say what you will about what that difference makes. I'd actually argue Christian Brown right now is playing better than casep ever did with the Nuggets. I don't think he's the same type of floor spacer or off ball mover, but he replaces that value in other areas, like especially like as a downhill presence in transition, playing off of cuts like Christian Brown has just been awesome. And then you kind of replace Bruce Brown with Russell Westbrook. Again it's a different look, but Russell Westbrook and Jokic have had an incredible dynamic. Like I said this going into the season, I was like, Westbrook's maybe his best asset over the last few years has been the way he creates short mid range opportunities for his bigs like Zoo, Robin Lopez, all of those guys just had a significant lead to their short mid range attempts. When Westbrook was playing pick and roll with them, and I think a big reason why we're seeing Yokic ever's thirty two points a game is he's getting three or more three or four more points off of these bunnies from Westbrook. So I think there's a lot to love with the roster. They've kept their core four together from the championship. I think Julian Strather's looked really good. I think Peyton Watson's been phenomenal defensively. I just simply agree it comes down to ken Jamal Murray get back to that level. And this start for Murray isn't exactly uncharacteristic. He's done this before, so there is still some faith in that he can get back to that level. Some interesting numbers that I was thinking about, like in the championship season, they started fourteen to eight. Right now they're twelve to ten and Jokic missed three games. I think, so they could very well have the exact same record as they did in their championship year. Also, the Nuggets in that championship year had a plus twelve net rating with Jokic on the floor. They have a plus eleven net rating with Yokic on the floor. This season pretty much the same caliber of team when Jokic is on the court. And the final thing for me is I don't worry as much about the forty eight minutes of high level center play from the Nuggets, just because we've seen in the playoffs Jokic is gonna play forty one forty two minutes a game, and he's gonna do that well. And I think what makes the Nuggets such a tough out is that, like when Yokic is playing forty two minutes, in order to knock them out, you pretty much have to win the Jokic minutes, and teams don't do that, Like even okay See would struggle to win the Jokic minutes.

So I think that's the big thing.

So I think that's the big thing.

Like Jokic being by far, I don't want to say by far the best player in the world with the way Giannis is playing, but I would still take Yokish number one at worst, by far a top two player in the world. And it's like that Jamal Murray just has to be that second All Star, like not even play at an all NBA level, just play at an All Star level, and they're right back at number two, number three For me in the West.

Like Jokic being by far, I don't want to say by far the best player in the world with the way Giannis is playing, but I would still take Yokish number one at worst, by far a top two player in the world. And it's like that Jamal Murray just has to be that second All Star, like not even play at an all NBA level, just play at an All Star level, and they're right back at number two, number three For me in the West.

Yeah, you guys are echoing a lot of what I feel like I've been saying and Logan what we've both been saying since the offseason. Right, I didn't see nearly as significant a difference in the roster of this team as I felt like a lot of other people did. I felt you still have your core for in early in the season, I thought, whoa. Christian Brown has been more impressive than I expected, and I think that he has remained impressive. Right, Obviously you are missing out on floor spacing with him, but what he does with his athleticism, with his cutting in transition and still being an impactful defensive player, He's a really good basketball player. He's a really good role player who compliments Jokic well. And in terms of the bench pieces, I don't think you can necessarily be disappointed with them. I think that Peyton Watson, when he's been a capable shooter, I mean, has been so good defensively. I think Russ has looked as good as you would have expected. I think that Julian Strather has looked about as good as you probably would have hoped for. But I still don't think that this team has been playing at a consistently high level. Now they are eleven and eight with Jokic on the floor. Tyler, you mentioned obviously they've been horrible without him, But I do have several concerns. Number one is the team has not been defending well this season. They're sixteenth in defensive rating. Frankly, that feels high to me. With how they've looked a lot of these nights, right, I mean, they've had some straight up disaster classes. I thought the Wizard's game was a disaster defensively. I thought the Knicks game just a couple before that was a complete disaster defensively. And what's so frustrating about that to me is this is a team that everybody is questioning, that everybody is calling out, that everybody is saying, hey, Denver, isn't who we thought they'd be. And they continue to approach too many of these regular season games with apathy on that end of the floor. And like they haven't had Aaron Gordon for a good portion of the year. They didn't have him, but they were replacing him with Peyton Watson and the starting lineup who's a really good defender. So I don't think that you can really use personnel as the excuse when we've seen Denver put forth a top ten defense last year, a really good playoff defense two years ago with basically the same core.

Yeah, you guys are echoing a lot of what I feel like I've been saying and Logan what we've both been saying since the offseason. Right, I didn't see nearly as significant a difference in the roster of this team as I felt like a lot of other people did. I felt you still have your core for in early in the season, I thought, whoa. Christian Brown has been more impressive than I expected, and I think that he has remained impressive. Right, Obviously you are missing out on floor spacing with him, but what he does with his athleticism, with his cutting in transition and still being an impactful defensive player, He's a really good basketball player. He's a really good role player who compliments Jokic well. And in terms of the bench pieces, I don't think you can necessarily be disappointed with them. I think that Peyton Watson, when he's been a capable shooter, I mean, has been so good defensively. I think Russ has looked as good as you would have expected. I think that Julian Strather has looked about as good as you probably would have hoped for. But I still don't think that this team has been playing at a consistently high level. Now they are eleven and eight with Jokic on the floor. Tyler, you mentioned obviously they've been horrible without him, But I do have several concerns. Number one is the team has not been defending well this season. They're sixteenth in defensive rating. Frankly, that feels high to me. With how they've looked a lot of these nights, right, I mean, they've had some straight up disaster classes. I thought the Wizard's game was a disaster defensively. I thought the Knicks game just a couple before that was a complete disaster defensively. And what's so frustrating about that to me is this is a team that everybody is questioning, that everybody is calling out, that everybody is saying, hey, Denver, isn't who we thought they'd be. And they continue to approach too many of these regular season games with apathy on that end of the floor. And like they haven't had Aaron Gordon for a good portion of the year. They didn't have him, but they were replacing him with Peyton Watson and the starting lineup who's a really good defender. So I don't think that you can really use personnel as the excuse when we've seen Denver put forth a top ten defense last year, a really good playoff defense two years ago with basically the same core.

Obviously they had KCP.

Obviously they had KCP.

I do think CACP was a slightly better defender than Christian Brown, but I don't think that there's a massive gap there. So I am just frustrated by how bad they've been on that end, and I think that that really falls on basically everybody on this team. I don't think that there's really anybody who is free of guilt in terms of their disappointment there. I do think also it would be great if this team could find more shooting on the bench and ideally find a backup center. We've seen the shooting. There are some nights where it's just comical, right. I Mean they're putting up twenty threes and they're making five of them on some nights. They're by far dead last in the NBA in three point attempts, and they're actually shooting it really well in terms of percentage at thirty eight. But they've been able to generate elite offenses without high three point volume before. But when you have this version of Jamal who's struggling as well. It feels like there's more of a burden on some of those supporting shooters to pick up the slack. And there's a couple names that I've been highlighting for a while. I think if you could get them Alik Beasley, who's actually kind of been hooping offensively for Detroit, but you know, six million dollars a year, they don't need him. And if you could get a Larry Nance on this roster, a guy who is almost superfluous Atlanta because they have already the Clinton Nyeka situation, I think he'd be a significantly better basketball team. And I do think that Detroit definitely likes Malik because of the shooting that he brings. But could you pry him away with a couple of second rounders? I don't think that's unreasonable. He's on a one year contract and Larry Nance. You might have to attach a first to Zeke Nagy, but you gotta find some way to get rid of that Nause contract, Like that's an abomination. You're paying him four years, thirty six million. The guy can't get on the floor. So you have to think about it in terms of we are offloading a real negative asset to get back a positive who helps our basketball team. Then I would look at Denver and I would think, Okay, a lot of those holes in the bench have been decisively resolved because obviously Sharit hasn't been the guy that they helped. He really hasn't been playable. But the biggest thing, I do agree, you just need a much much better version of Jamal Murray. And Jamal has never been the most consistent regular season player. He's never obviously made much of an All Star case in the regular season. But this version of Jamal is so concerning, and I keep on waiting for the bounce back. And that's the reason that I had Denver as my number two team in the West until very recently. I was like, look, a lot of these other peripheral things I think are overstated as concerns. Yokic is playing at such an unbelievable level. We know that this formula works when Jamal Murray is right, and like, at some point Jamal has to turn it around. But it's just hard to watch game after game as he is just bad night after night. Right now, he's under eighteen points per game on under fifty three percent true shooting, he's been a thirty fifth percentile pick and role score in a twenty seventh percentile isolation score. That just cannot be the production from your lead perimeter score if you want to be a contender. And really, the only dude alongside Yokichu has real ball handling capabilities and the only real pull up shooter playing minutes for this team, and he has an effective field goal percentage of forty three on pull up jumpers right now. That was it fifty three percent last year. That's a huge drop off. So he's missing these tough shots. He's always been a tough shot maker, but I do think his shot died is tougher now than ever. He's just really struggling to create separation and create advantages for this offense. So I absolutely think he's the biggest problem with this team. And maybe he turns it around. I hope he does, because I love Jamal Murray. I love watching him play basketball. But until he does, I think it's really hard to view this team as the sort of contender that I thought they would be before the year. So let me ask you guys this, because I've started to see this circulate a lot. Do you think Denver is in a place where like a major trade would be in the cards if that were moving MPJ, what's your guys take on that.

I do think CACP was a slightly better defender than Christian Brown, but I don't think that there's a massive gap there. So I am just frustrated by how bad they've been on that end, and I think that that really falls on basically everybody on this team. I don't think that there's really anybody who is free of guilt in terms of their disappointment there. I do think also it would be great if this team could find more shooting on the bench and ideally find a backup center. We've seen the shooting. There are some nights where it's just comical, right. I Mean they're putting up twenty threes and they're making five of them on some nights. They're by far dead last in the NBA in three point attempts, and they're actually shooting it really well in terms of percentage at thirty eight. But they've been able to generate elite offenses without high three point volume before. But when you have this version of Jamal who's struggling as well. It feels like there's more of a burden on some of those supporting shooters to pick up the slack. And there's a couple names that I've been highlighting for a while. I think if you could get them Alik Beasley, who's actually kind of been hooping offensively for Detroit, but you know, six million dollars a year, they don't need him. And if you could get a Larry Nance on this roster, a guy who is almost superfluous Atlanta because they have already the Clinton Nyeka situation, I think he'd be a significantly better basketball team. And I do think that Detroit definitely likes Malik because of the shooting that he brings. But could you pry him away with a couple of second rounders? I don't think that's unreasonable. He's on a one year contract and Larry Nance. You might have to attach a first to Zeke Nagy, but you gotta find some way to get rid of that Nause contract, Like that's an abomination. You're paying him four years, thirty six million. The guy can't get on the floor. So you have to think about it in terms of we are offloading a real negative asset to get back a positive who helps our basketball team. Then I would look at Denver and I would think, Okay, a lot of those holes in the bench have been decisively resolved because obviously Sharit hasn't been the guy that they helped. He really hasn't been playable. But the biggest thing, I do agree, you just need a much much better version of Jamal Murray. And Jamal has never been the most consistent regular season player. He's never obviously made much of an All Star case in the regular season. But this version of Jamal is so concerning, and I keep on waiting for the bounce back. And that's the reason that I had Denver as my number two team in the West until very recently. I was like, look, a lot of these other peripheral things I think are overstated as concerns. Yokic is playing at such an unbelievable level. We know that this formula works when Jamal Murray is right, and like, at some point Jamal has to turn it around. But it's just hard to watch game after game as he is just bad night after night. Right now, he's under eighteen points per game on under fifty three percent true shooting, he's been a thirty fifth percentile pick and role score in a twenty seventh percentile isolation score. That just cannot be the production from your lead perimeter score if you want to be a contender. And really, the only dude alongside Yokichu has real ball handling capabilities and the only real pull up shooter playing minutes for this team, and he has an effective field goal percentage of forty three on pull up jumpers right now. That was it fifty three percent last year. That's a huge drop off. So he's missing these tough shots. He's always been a tough shot maker, but I do think his shot died is tougher now than ever. He's just really struggling to create separation and create advantages for this offense. So I absolutely think he's the biggest problem with this team. And maybe he turns it around. I hope he does, because I love Jamal Murray. I love watching him play basketball. But until he does, I think it's really hard to view this team as the sort of contender that I thought they would be before the year. So let me ask you guys this, because I've started to see this circulate a lot. Do you think Denver is in a place where like a major trade would be in the cards if that were moving MPJ, what's your guys take on that.

I don't see it. I don't see it.

I don't see it. I don't see it.

I think, like you kind of mentioned moves on the margins make more sense for me, Like you throw out Malik Bleat Beasley. Another guy that came to my mind, just like randomly while you were going your little sermon. Patrick Williams, I think would be a pretty awesome fit, like with his athleticism, his frame, and also like being a legit forty percent three point shooter every year.

I think, like you kind of mentioned moves on the margins make more sense for me, Like you throw out Malik Bleat Beasley. Another guy that came to my mind, just like randomly while you were going your little sermon. Patrick Williams, I think would be a pretty awesome fit, like with his athleticism, his frame, and also like being a legit forty percent three point shooter every year.

I think that'd be an awesome fit.

I think that'd be an awesome fit.

Yeah, I don't think there's a big trade, and I think it's because no matter what trade they come up with, I feel like they would be losing value. Like I don't see a trade out there that where they would like make a big move and then you're like, Okay, this pushes them back into where they were in twenty twenty three. I just don't see that move available. Like the only one I saw on circulating on Twitter was a move for Jimmy Butler. I don't think that moves the needle for the worst three point shooting team in the league.

Yeah, I don't think there's a big trade, and I think it's because no matter what trade they come up with, I feel like they would be losing value. Like I don't see a trade out there that where they would like make a big move and then you're like, Okay, this pushes them back into where they were in twenty twenty three. I just don't see that move available. Like the only one I saw on circulating on Twitter was a move for Jimmy Butler. I don't think that moves the needle for the worst three point shooting team in the league.

It doesn't make sense to me.

It doesn't make sense to me.

But it's crazy to think about the Jamal Murray thing man because the names he was being mentioned with, Like if Jamal Murray was Devin Booker, would we even be talking about the Nuggets right now, like or where we just say they're with the Celtics and Dunder.

But it's crazy to think about the Jamal Murray thing man because the names he was being mentioned with, Like if Jamal Murray was Devin Booker, would we even be talking about the Nuggets right now, like or where we just say they're with the Celtics and Dunder.

Absolutely like it.

Absolutely like it.

It's crazy to me.

It's crazy to me.

Yeah, And so that's the thing I think with the way their contract situation is the way that they don't really have a bunch of young assets they can pair with these guys, I don't think there's a move out there where they're gaining their value back unless it's like the Lakers blow it up and need to get rid of Ad or the Suns blow it up and need to get rid of Duran or Booker.

Yeah, And so that's the thing I think with the way their contract situation is the way that they don't really have a bunch of young assets they can pair with these guys, I don't think there's a move out there where they're gaining their value back unless it's like the Lakers blow it up and need to get rid of Ad or the Suns blow it up and need to get rid of Duran or Booker.

Like that's the only thing I could see happening.

Like that's the only thing I could see happening.

Yeah, And I actually really like the moves on the margins that you mentioned, Carson, because a couple of things about all this one. I think you need that kind of shooting ceiling just because you think about the perspective teams that you're gonna run into, right like a Dallas can just rein it down upon you. That's gonna swing individual games. The Timberwolves, right, if they ran into them again, Anthony Edwards could outshoot you individually from behind the arc, right with the volume that he's pulling from. Also on the Jamal point too, if we are just sitting and crossing our fingers waiting when the playoffs come around, there's a lot of teams that match up really well again with Jamal in terms of defense. Right, you talked about Oklahoma City and how they match up against Mike eat him Alive exactly if they ran into Minnesota again, I think that's problematic. Right, Even a Memphis has guys that they can throw it, you know, a Marcus Smart, Right, they can throw guys at Jamal and still I kind of believe that that's probably their best route. It's just crossing your fingers and praying that Jamal Marie is the guy that he was during the title run. But I don't think a superstar deal makes sense. I agree with like Jimmy, we'll talk about that in a minute, but that doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah, And I actually really like the moves on the margins that you mentioned, Carson, because a couple of things about all this one. I think you need that kind of shooting ceiling just because you think about the perspective teams that you're gonna run into, right like a Dallas can just rein it down upon you. That's gonna swing individual games. The Timberwolves, right, if they ran into them again, Anthony Edwards could outshoot you individually from behind the arc, right with the volume that he's pulling from. Also on the Jamal point too, if we are just sitting and crossing our fingers waiting when the playoffs come around, there's a lot of teams that match up really well again with Jamal in terms of defense. Right, you talked about Oklahoma City and how they match up against Mike eat him Alive exactly if they ran into Minnesota again, I think that's problematic. Right, Even a Memphis has guys that they can throw it, you know, a Marcus Smart, Right, they can throw guys at Jamal and still I kind of believe that that's probably their best route. It's just crossing your fingers and praying that Jamal Marie is the guy that he was during the title run. But I don't think a superstar deal makes sense. I agree with like Jimmy, we'll talk about that in a minute, but that doesn't make sense to me.

I don't like the Jimmy thing at all. I just think it's clunky. I don't think you need a ball stopper who's also a non three point shooter that is certainly not what Denver's missing.

I don't like the Jimmy thing at all. I just think it's clunky. I don't think you need a ball stopper who's also a non three point shooter that is certainly not what Denver's missing.

There's only one name that I would.

There's only one name that I would.

Consider if I were Denver, and I still think I would lean on the side of not doing it, or certainly at least waiting longer, waiting until closer to the deadline. How would you guys feel about basically an MPJ for Zach Lavine's swap, and you probably get a little bit of draft capital back from Chicago because you're giving them such a young player.

Consider if I were Denver, and I still think I would lean on the side of not doing it, or certainly at least waiting longer, waiting until closer to the deadline. How would you guys feel about basically an MPJ for Zach Lavine's swap, and you probably get a little bit of draft capital back from Chicago because you're giving them such a young player.

I like the idea in theory because I think they need like a creator like Levine who can who can score with the ball in his hands, make plays. The problem for me is how reliant that defense is on Mpj's size and length, and I think they would be losing that, and then Jokic would be stressed even more as like a drop defender. And so I feel like, I don't think Mpj's like some great defender, but I think the way they function within that system, they rely on him to cover a lot of stuff on the back line that Levine just simply would not be able to replicate. So then you'd run into lineup problems where it's like we're debating whether Levin should be on the floor of Peyton Watson and I think that that would be a problem.

I like the idea in theory because I think they need like a creator like Levine who can who can score with the ball in his hands, make plays. The problem for me is how reliant that defense is on Mpj's size and length, and I think they would be losing that, and then Jokic would be stressed even more as like a drop defender. And so I feel like, I don't think Mpj's like some great defender, but I think the way they function within that system, they rely on him to cover a lot of stuff on the back line that Levine just simply would not be able to replicate. So then you'd run into lineup problems where it's like we're debating whether Levin should be on the floor of Peyton Watson and I think that that would be a problem.

I agree. I think you're losing a lot rebounding too with the J because MPJ ends a lot of possessions. That being said, man, can you guys imagine Jokic stolen love to Aaron Gordon and Zach Levine. That would be fun as hell.

I agree. I think you're losing a lot rebounding too with the J because MPJ ends a lot of possessions. That being said, man, can you guys imagine Jokic stolen love to Aaron Gordon and Zach Levine. That would be fun as hell.

Mana Levine would have a really nice two man game like that. That's a beautiful thing to think about. Another name, Like I was just thinking of like All Stars since you were thrown out, like the trade idea, I think Daron Fox would be a freaking awesome fit in Denver. But again, I don't even think that's realistic. I yeah, there's a lot of guys now I'm thinking about, like ideally you'd want Cam Johnson instead of like MPJ.

Mana Levine would have a really nice two man game like that. That's a beautiful thing to think about. Another name, Like I was just thinking of like All Stars since you were thrown out, like the trade idea, I think Daron Fox would be a freaking awesome fit in Denver. But again, I don't even think that's realistic. I yeah, there's a lot of guys now I'm thinking about, like ideally you'd want Cam Johnson instead of like MPJ.

But but again, I just don't think.

But but again, I just don't think.

I don't think there's a pathway to getting these guys because they just simply do not have the assets.

I don't think there's a pathway to getting these guys because they just simply do not have the assets.

Yeah, I think that Levine is one that they probably could pull off because that contract is viewed as such a negative. But it's really not much bigger than mpg's contract. It's like seven eight million a year. So if you don't involve Zechnology in another deal, maybe you can throw him in that, or you know, get Hunter Tyson and Jaln Pickett in there, these guys who should never play meaningful minutes. Ultimately, though I'm with you, Tyler, I just think that this team was built with a very clear vision in mind, and that vision was Jamal Murray is going to be our all star guard, and then we will have MPJ as our big three, who can help us on the glass, who has progressed defensively and who is this out of this world spot up shooter. And Aaron Gordon will be our lead forward defensively, and he'll be so great in transition, and he'll be an awesome target in the dunker spot and a mismatch attacker at times, and everything is gonna run through the Murray Jokic two man game. And the only reason that I would consider trading MPG if I were Denver is not because of MPG at all, because sometimes I see Nuggets fans turning on MPJ, and I'm like, the only way you can be upset with MPJ is if you expect him to be something that he's not, right MPG this year has been the same guy he's always been.

Yeah, I think that Levine is one that they probably could pull off because that contract is viewed as such a negative. But it's really not much bigger than mpg's contract. It's like seven eight million a year. So if you don't involve Zechnology in another deal, maybe you can throw him in that, or you know, get Hunter Tyson and Jaln Pickett in there, these guys who should never play meaningful minutes. Ultimately, though I'm with you, Tyler, I just think that this team was built with a very clear vision in mind, and that vision was Jamal Murray is going to be our all star guard, and then we will have MPJ as our big three, who can help us on the glass, who has progressed defensively and who is this out of this world spot up shooter. And Aaron Gordon will be our lead forward defensively, and he'll be so great in transition, and he'll be an awesome target in the dunker spot and a mismatch attacker at times, and everything is gonna run through the Murray Jokic two man game. And the only reason that I would consider trading MPG if I were Denver is not because of MPG at all, because sometimes I see Nuggets fans turning on MPJ, and I'm like, the only way you can be upset with MPJ is if you expect him to be something that he's not, right MPG this year has been the same guy he's always been.

I actually think he's been the.

I actually think he's been the.

Best version of himself because I think that he's grown a little bit as a passer. And if you are looking for him to bring more offensive juice right as a creator, that hasn't been in him since he messed up his back, right, Like that version of NPJ hasn't existed in a long time and was never going to exist in the NBA at a high level with his injury history. But the reason that I would consider it is because when Jamal is looking this bad, you just need more creation off the dribble, and that's what Lavine brings, and he would bring that while also being an elite shooter off the catch, a really good off ball offensive star like hyper efficient killer score, really a great offensive fit here. I just think, at the end of the day, MPJ is not the problem here. Jamal Murray is the problem. And if you do give up MPJ to try to cover up for Jamal's issues, I think you're losing an integral part of your formula when it's working correctly with what MPJ does bring, and I think it's probably not worth doing. But that's the only one that I would really consider because I think offensively, Levine is such a great fit and Jamal's just got a shape up man.