The volume. No, Oh my god, how could he do that?

The volume. No, Oh my god, how could he do that?

Go on, don't watch.

Go on, don't watch.

What Charles Darwin. The nerves is where it's at.

What Charles Darwin. The nerves is where it's at.

Welcome everybody back into nerd SESSH. As always, I'm Carson Brevan. Alongside me is Logan Camden, and today we are going to be finishing our rankings of the top thirty players in the NBA with our top ten. We took a brief break from this list to do a show that I thought was really awesome with Kenny Beacham King of the fourth Quarter last Friday, So if you haven't checked that went out, please do super awesome to have him on. We did some trivia, we talked some ball, but now we're back to the grind of ranking these plays and making some hard decisions. Logan, I know that we only disagree on one of the players who is in our top ten. I'm sure we'll disagree on a bunch of placements, but there's only one difference in terms of a guy you have in the top ten who I do not, and vice versa. I know that because we discussed that a little bit last episode. But who ends up in your ten spot?

Welcome everybody back into nerd SESSH. As always, I'm Carson Brevan. Alongside me is Logan Camden, and today we are going to be finishing our rankings of the top thirty players in the NBA with our top ten. We took a brief break from this list to do a show that I thought was really awesome with Kenny Beacham King of the fourth Quarter last Friday, So if you haven't checked that went out, please do super awesome to have him on. We did some trivia, we talked some ball, but now we're back to the grind of ranking these plays and making some hard decisions. Logan, I know that we only disagree on one of the players who is in our top ten. I'm sure we'll disagree on a bunch of placements, but there's only one difference in terms of a guy you have in the top ten who I do not, and vice versa. I know that because we discussed that a little bit last episode. But who ends up in your ten spot?

I have a guy I had a very hard time ranking, and that's just because of what an anomaly he is. Everybody likes to call Jason Tatum the anomaly. This guy, he real anomaly.

I have a guy I had a very hard time ranking, and that's just because of what an anomaly he is. Everybody likes to call Jason Tatum the anomaly. This guy, he real anomaly.

The well handles like a guy six inches shorter guards one through five. That's an anomaly, if you ask me.

The well handles like a guy six inches shorter guards one through five. That's an anomaly, if you ask me.

The real anomally is the guy who's seven foot three to four with an eight foot wingspan. They also call him an alien. I've got Victor Wembanyama here in my number ten spot, and he is a one man defense as much as any man can be. The San Antonio Spurgs this season were ten point three points per one hundred possessions better defensively with Wemby. They have a defensive rate of one twelve point four with him on the court in a of one twenty two point seven without him. That's equivalent to the difference between being the twelfth best defense in basketball and the worst defense in all of basketball. This season, he averaged three point eight blocks per game. He held down the number one spot by one point three over second place, to be clear, and he also had one point one steals per game. That's the twenty second most stocks per game by any player in NBA history, the most by a player since two thousand and two that was four time Defensive Player of the Year. Ben Wallace, like Wemby, is a monster and I also think that well. I think he is the greatest defensive prospect ever. I think he is a bona fide defensive player of the Year, probably front runner for every single year that he's going to be healthy moving forward the rest of his career. He really has improved in a lot of ways. Offensively. He averaged twenty four points this year four assists on fifty nine percent true shooting. He was the number nineteen pick and roll role man in all of basketball. I think you saw him benefit from better guard play this season, finishing stuff easier, getting it manufactured for him. But he's also got really good touch and you know, just fluidity for a guy his size. He's a good post scorer right now, He's not a great one, but I think he can improve and get better there. But that was what Ultimately his offensive game and my confidence in his offensive game is what holds him from being higher on this list. There are other guys that I just wholeheartedly trust more is number ones and offensive engines, and there are other guys that I just think have comparable defensive impact or all around impact that are also really really reliable offensive players. That being said, it feels like we've gotten robbed again Carson. It really sucks that he got injured. That's the measuring stick, you know, I think for a lot of people in the NBA right now is we love seeing what these young guys can do in the regular season, but the true test is what you can do in the playoffs. And this is going to be the second consecutive season where he misses out. Hopefully it's the last one. Next year, I think the Spurs have to be a shoe in to be a top eight team with Fox, with whoever they're gonna get very early in the draft, but I want to see him on that stage. That being said, I think I'm relatively confident that it's gonna translate pretty well over into the playoffs. But there are things that I think that you can do to defend Wemby to slow him down. He is a little bit reliant on the perimeter shot right now. You can put smaller defenders on him that can disrupt his handle. Guys with a lower center of gravity and a strong base can really give him fits and keep him out of the paint, and so those are the shortcomings that I'm talking about. But still, when you've got this kind of wingspan, you can finish anything around the rim. He is a good shooter with great touch. I do think it's gonna translate relatively. There's just other more experienced guys, and like I said, guys that I think impact the game a little bit better right now than Wemby. But it's only a matter of time, right Like, Wemby's gonna be top five, I think one day if he can shake off this injury and get back fully healthy, and I'm praying to the basketball gods that that happens. But I just need to see more. But this is a super impressive year too. We talked all last year about when he would break into it, if it was going to be this year, if it was going to be next year. I think he's about on schedule, and right now ten feels right for Wemby.

The real anomally is the guy who's seven foot three to four with an eight foot wingspan. They also call him an alien. I've got Victor Wembanyama here in my number ten spot, and he is a one man defense as much as any man can be. The San Antonio Spurgs this season were ten point three points per one hundred possessions better defensively with Wemby. They have a defensive rate of one twelve point four with him on the court in a of one twenty two point seven without him. That's equivalent to the difference between being the twelfth best defense in basketball and the worst defense in all of basketball. This season, he averaged three point eight blocks per game. He held down the number one spot by one point three over second place, to be clear, and he also had one point one steals per game. That's the twenty second most stocks per game by any player in NBA history, the most by a player since two thousand and two that was four time Defensive Player of the Year. Ben Wallace, like Wemby, is a monster and I also think that well. I think he is the greatest defensive prospect ever. I think he is a bona fide defensive player of the Year, probably front runner for every single year that he's going to be healthy moving forward the rest of his career. He really has improved in a lot of ways. Offensively. He averaged twenty four points this year four assists on fifty nine percent true shooting. He was the number nineteen pick and roll role man in all of basketball. I think you saw him benefit from better guard play this season, finishing stuff easier, getting it manufactured for him. But he's also got really good touch and you know, just fluidity for a guy his size. He's a good post scorer right now, He's not a great one, but I think he can improve and get better there. But that was what Ultimately his offensive game and my confidence in his offensive game is what holds him from being higher on this list. There are other guys that I just wholeheartedly trust more is number ones and offensive engines, and there are other guys that I just think have comparable defensive impact or all around impact that are also really really reliable offensive players. That being said, it feels like we've gotten robbed again Carson. It really sucks that he got injured. That's the measuring stick, you know, I think for a lot of people in the NBA right now is we love seeing what these young guys can do in the regular season, but the true test is what you can do in the playoffs. And this is going to be the second consecutive season where he misses out. Hopefully it's the last one. Next year, I think the Spurs have to be a shoe in to be a top eight team with Fox, with whoever they're gonna get very early in the draft, but I want to see him on that stage. That being said, I think I'm relatively confident that it's gonna translate pretty well over into the playoffs. But there are things that I think that you can do to defend Wemby to slow him down. He is a little bit reliant on the perimeter shot right now. You can put smaller defenders on him that can disrupt his handle. Guys with a lower center of gravity and a strong base can really give him fits and keep him out of the paint, and so those are the shortcomings that I'm talking about. But still, when you've got this kind of wingspan, you can finish anything around the rim. He is a good shooter with great touch. I do think it's gonna translate relatively. There's just other more experienced guys, and like I said, guys that I think impact the game a little bit better right now than Wemby. But it's only a matter of time, right Like, Wemby's gonna be top five, I think one day if he can shake off this injury and get back fully healthy, and I'm praying to the basketball gods that that happens. But I just need to see more. But this is a super impressive year too. We talked all last year about when he would break into it, if it was going to be this year, if it was going to be next year. I think he's about on schedule, and right now ten feels right for Wemby.

Wemby's a tough guy to rank because obviously we didn't get to see him finish out this season, but he is improving so rapidly. We have a smaller sample size of basically everything with him than we do anybody else, and we don't get to see him face what is the biggest and most significant test this year, which is a postseason and specifically, how does his offense hold up in that playoff environment against high level defenses that are game planning for his offense, trying to take his strengths away. But of course, offense is always going to be secondary with Wemby because he's probably already the best defensive player alive. He was going to win Defensive Player of the Year. You mentioned the shot blocking numbers. It's stuff that we haven't seen in decades, holding opposing players thirteen percent below their average field goal percentage at the rim. He is to me the most impactful deterrent in basketball today. Just people not even wanting to test him at the rim. His ability to negate those attempts around the basket is so valuable. And he improved the Spurs defense by ten points four hundred posessions when he was on the floor, So extremely extremely impactful defensive player and then offensively still a really, really good basketball player. You mentioned the production, the efficiency has improved. He's significantly improved as a jump shooter. That was the biggest difference arguably in his game offensively from his second year compared to his first, just getting way better from beyond the arc and even increasing his volume there. I do think he's improved as a post player. I do think that he's added strength, which is significant. And I thought he did a really impressive job carrying the Spurs throughout this regular season when he was healthy. Before the Fox trade. The Spurs were twenty one and twenty five with Wenby this year. That overachieved my expectations looking at the talent they had on the roster. I will say they're ten and fourteen without him, which is definitely better than I would have expected. But I do think that he is certainly like a top eight regular season player. I just think the night to night effort that you get from him, that number one defensive impact while still being a guy who gives you offensive star production on a night tonight basis in the regular season, like that's very, very valuable. And that's why earlier in the year I was saying Victor Wamanyama is a top eight player. The thing is, at that time, Steph and Lebron were not looking like the guys who they've been for the last month or a couple months and those guys are still just at such a superstar offensive level. They are so proven against playoff defenses. I mean, they're just basketball geniuses who are so reliably elite in that highly difficult environment when they're playing like they have been, and they've shown that they can get to that level for extended stretches. I still just have to reward that reliably elite offense because you mentioned it. The one question about Wemby is how does he hold up right now offensively in a playoff series? And I do think there are a couple of indicators that it would not have been as pretty as his overall regular season production would suggest. When Victor wen Manyama faced top ten defenses this year, he only gave you twenty points per game more than three turnovers, which is still a struggle for him on under fifty four percent through shooting. And you touched on what is the key strategy that he is going to see in the playoffs until he proves that he can punish you for it, and that is team's putting a wing, a big forward, even a super feisty smaller wing on Victor wen Manyama, applying a lot of pressure to him. Affecting him with their lower center of gravity in their hands and then having their center roaming off so he can be constantly engaged as a helper and take away shots at the rim for the entire Spurs offense. Wenby struggled in those matchups. We saw the Rockets do it effectively. They have dogs right, like a Dylan Brooks who can actually handle Wenby pretty well one on one. We saw the Thunder do it even in minutes where Chet was off the floor entirely and they were going fully small ball, and they regarding Wemby effectively with their perimeter guys and their collective speed and rint protection. We've seen the Grizzlies do it. We've seen the Celtics Steward and Wenby's most recent game where they're putting Horford on him, They're putting Tatum on them and they have KP roaming off. He just to me needs to add that more reliable self creation still, and I think that part of that is strength where he can attack these mismatches, he can punish them by working on the interior more working down low. Moore, I don't know that you can ever expect a seven foot three guy to become like legitimately comfortable handling out on the perimeter against some of these swarming smaller guys like Wemby already has an unprecedented handle for his size, but there's only so much you can expect of a guy at that height, So I don't think that that's necessarily where he's going to improve as much. It's more to me getting comfortable playing with real physicality, playing some more bullyball and lemb He doesn't have that yet, so that's why I have him here. The turnovers, the inefficiency, the lack of scoring volume against those really good teams. I would also like to see when we get to line more like four free throw attempts for a big with his sort of crazy physical tools is a very low number, and that would help his efficiency if he got more of those free points at the line. And that'll come with added physicality, added aggression, just getting more shots at the rim, if those are shots that he's creating for himself or shots that are being created for him. But it will help him when he gets more of that super easy stuff that he's just not getting at as higher rate as he's capable of yet. And I do still think that he is dependent on other players creating offense for him much more than anybody else that we're going to talk about today. Now, he's pretty easy to create offense for because he is such a pick and pop weapon and because as a roller, I mean, the guy he just massive and fluid in a way that we've never seen before. So he's crazy efficient finishing at the rim. He's such a massive target down there. He's a good screener. But if you look at like his minutes with Chris Paul, best pure point guard he's played with right just in terms of facilitating the game, compared to the minutes where he's without Chris Paul. In the minutes without CP three, he only gives you under twenty one points per seventy five possessions, fifty four percent true shooting, the turnovers go up. So it's just a lack of offensive polish. That's the only reason I can't have him higher. Regular season, with his monstrous two way impact, he would be higher. But ultimately I do value the playoffs more. I think that is where players are tested most. I think that's where their flaws are exposed. People try to take away their greatest strengths and that's where I just trust a couple guys more than Wenby. I do think by next year he should be top five. He gets better so fast, got so much better throughout his rookie year, got way better throughout his sophomore year, and has literally all the ability in the world. So I'm just expecting a continual, dramatic upward slope for him right now, though I'm comfortable with him at number ten as well.

Wemby's a tough guy to rank because obviously we didn't get to see him finish out this season, but he is improving so rapidly. We have a smaller sample size of basically everything with him than we do anybody else, and we don't get to see him face what is the biggest and most significant test this year, which is a postseason and specifically, how does his offense hold up in that playoff environment against high level defenses that are game planning for his offense, trying to take his strengths away. But of course, offense is always going to be secondary with Wemby because he's probably already the best defensive player alive. He was going to win Defensive Player of the Year. You mentioned the shot blocking numbers. It's stuff that we haven't seen in decades, holding opposing players thirteen percent below their average field goal percentage at the rim. He is to me the most impactful deterrent in basketball today. Just people not even wanting to test him at the rim. His ability to negate those attempts around the basket is so valuable. And he improved the Spurs defense by ten points four hundred posessions when he was on the floor, So extremely extremely impactful defensive player and then offensively still a really, really good basketball player. You mentioned the production, the efficiency has improved. He's significantly improved as a jump shooter. That was the biggest difference arguably in his game offensively from his second year compared to his first, just getting way better from beyond the arc and even increasing his volume there. I do think he's improved as a post player. I do think that he's added strength, which is significant. And I thought he did a really impressive job carrying the Spurs throughout this regular season when he was healthy. Before the Fox trade. The Spurs were twenty one and twenty five with Wenby this year. That overachieved my expectations looking at the talent they had on the roster. I will say they're ten and fourteen without him, which is definitely better than I would have expected. But I do think that he is certainly like a top eight regular season player. I just think the night to night effort that you get from him, that number one defensive impact while still being a guy who gives you offensive star production on a night tonight basis in the regular season, like that's very, very valuable. And that's why earlier in the year I was saying Victor Wamanyama is a top eight player. The thing is, at that time, Steph and Lebron were not looking like the guys who they've been for the last month or a couple months and those guys are still just at such a superstar offensive level. They are so proven against playoff defenses. I mean, they're just basketball geniuses who are so reliably elite in that highly difficult environment when they're playing like they have been, and they've shown that they can get to that level for extended stretches. I still just have to reward that reliably elite offense because you mentioned it. The one question about Wemby is how does he hold up right now offensively in a playoff series? And I do think there are a couple of indicators that it would not have been as pretty as his overall regular season production would suggest. When Victor wen Manyama faced top ten defenses this year, he only gave you twenty points per game more than three turnovers, which is still a struggle for him on under fifty four percent through shooting. And you touched on what is the key strategy that he is going to see in the playoffs until he proves that he can punish you for it, and that is team's putting a wing, a big forward, even a super feisty smaller wing on Victor wen Manyama, applying a lot of pressure to him. Affecting him with their lower center of gravity in their hands and then having their center roaming off so he can be constantly engaged as a helper and take away shots at the rim for the entire Spurs offense. Wenby struggled in those matchups. We saw the Rockets do it effectively. They have dogs right, like a Dylan Brooks who can actually handle Wenby pretty well one on one. We saw the Thunder do it even in minutes where Chet was off the floor entirely and they were going fully small ball, and they regarding Wemby effectively with their perimeter guys and their collective speed and rint protection. We've seen the Grizzlies do it. We've seen the Celtics Steward and Wenby's most recent game where they're putting Horford on him, They're putting Tatum on them and they have KP roaming off. He just to me needs to add that more reliable self creation still, and I think that part of that is strength where he can attack these mismatches, he can punish them by working on the interior more working down low. Moore, I don't know that you can ever expect a seven foot three guy to become like legitimately comfortable handling out on the perimeter against some of these swarming smaller guys like Wemby already has an unprecedented handle for his size, but there's only so much you can expect of a guy at that height, So I don't think that that's necessarily where he's going to improve as much. It's more to me getting comfortable playing with real physicality, playing some more bullyball and lemb He doesn't have that yet, so that's why I have him here. The turnovers, the inefficiency, the lack of scoring volume against those really good teams. I would also like to see when we get to line more like four free throw attempts for a big with his sort of crazy physical tools is a very low number, and that would help his efficiency if he got more of those free points at the line. And that'll come with added physicality, added aggression, just getting more shots at the rim, if those are shots that he's creating for himself or shots that are being created for him. But it will help him when he gets more of that super easy stuff that he's just not getting at as higher rate as he's capable of yet. And I do still think that he is dependent on other players creating offense for him much more than anybody else that we're going to talk about today. Now, he's pretty easy to create offense for because he is such a pick and pop weapon and because as a roller, I mean, the guy he just massive and fluid in a way that we've never seen before. So he's crazy efficient finishing at the rim. He's such a massive target down there. He's a good screener. But if you look at like his minutes with Chris Paul, best pure point guard he's played with right just in terms of facilitating the game, compared to the minutes where he's without Chris Paul. In the minutes without CP three, he only gives you under twenty one points per seventy five possessions, fifty four percent true shooting, the turnovers go up. So it's just a lack of offensive polish. That's the only reason I can't have him higher. Regular season, with his monstrous two way impact, he would be higher. But ultimately I do value the playoffs more. I think that is where players are tested most. I think that's where their flaws are exposed. People try to take away their greatest strengths and that's where I just trust a couple guys more than Wenby. I do think by next year he should be top five. He gets better so fast, got so much better throughout his rookie year, got way better throughout his sophomore year, and has literally all the ability in the world. So I'm just expecting a continual, dramatic upward slope for him right now, though I'm comfortable with him at number ten as well.

And I think, you know, depending on how this stuff goes with him being out, like, I wouldn't put it past him putting on even more weight and getting stronger by next season two, which what you're talking about, because I do think that's the fully unlocked version of Wenby, just where he can not even necessarily like get to like get to the low blocker, get to the left or right block like every single time. Like he literally just needs to not be able to back down to these guys and not be moved off his spots, because once that happens, he can shoot over the top of anybody. Well, like it's such a simple thing. But like once he establishes that part where he can't be bumped, he can't be moved, you know, he's just, for lack of better term, he's backing his ass up into the dude and just moving him like yeah, then he'll be able to face up and just shoot over the top of anybody. And that's when I think you're really gonna see him taking up taking efficiency and just get easy stuff where you know he can break up spells where it's not just all I need my three ball to be on to be super effective, or I need guys feeding me. I can go to the post. I can go and get my own shot, and then that's gonna unlock everything else for Wenby in this offense and unlock his full potential as an offensive player because off of that, once you can individually get to that spot, then you're drawing extra attention. Then you're creating you know, you're creating advantages, you're getting the defense in rotation you can play make out of that. I think it's gonna unlock all of Wemby's offensive game once he establishes that part. But like you said, right now, we're just not there. But I wouldn't put it past Wemby real quick in the blink of an eye in a couple of months being there.

And I think, you know, depending on how this stuff goes with him being out, like, I wouldn't put it past him putting on even more weight and getting stronger by next season two, which what you're talking about, because I do think that's the fully unlocked version of Wenby, just where he can not even necessarily like get to like get to the low blocker, get to the left or right block like every single time. Like he literally just needs to not be able to back down to these guys and not be moved off his spots, because once that happens, he can shoot over the top of anybody. Well, like it's such a simple thing. But like once he establishes that part where he can't be bumped, he can't be moved, you know, he's just, for lack of better term, he's backing his ass up into the dude and just moving him like yeah, then he'll be able to face up and just shoot over the top of anybody. And that's when I think you're really gonna see him taking up taking efficiency and just get easy stuff where you know he can break up spells where it's not just all I need my three ball to be on to be super effective, or I need guys feeding me. I can go to the post. I can go and get my own shot, and then that's gonna unlock everything else for Wenby in this offense and unlock his full potential as an offensive player because off of that, once you can individually get to that spot, then you're drawing extra attention. Then you're creating you know, you're creating advantages, you're getting the defense in rotation you can play make out of that. I think it's gonna unlock all of Wemby's offensive game once he establishes that part. But like you said, right now, we're just not there. But I wouldn't put it past Wemby real quick in the blink of an eye in a couple of months being there.

I totally agree. I think that strength is such a key, just that comfort, not being moved off his spots, asserting himself physically, because where Wemby is least efficient as an offensive player is as an isolationist. He's only in the sixteenth percentile. And why is that? Again? If you have the sort of feisty wings or forwards who we're talking about, you can force him to settle a lot, and Wenby's a forty percent mid range shooter and you can force him into some turnovers. And that's why he's just not the most impactful offensive player yet. And you see that with the numbers two. The Spurs offensive rating does not change if Wenby's on the floor compar to offit this year. Now, I definitely think he's a plus offensively, but I do think that that's telling massive defensive on off differential not there offensively. I am excited to see how he and Fox can establish their two man game. How Fox his quickness in downhill threat, even though he's not weaponizing that as much as I would like, can open up things for Wemby as a popper and maybe as a roller as well. And I just think he's always going to be at his best offensively when he is allowed to play a more efficient role and he has guards creating stuff for him. Because his physical tools there and his skill is so overwhelming. It's harder to ask a guy with his size and his frame to create for himself at that high volume. But he is going to have to get better there for me to move him up higher and have real real faith in him in the playoffs. Offensively, who is in your number nine spot? Logan?

I totally agree. I think that strength is such a key, just that comfort, not being moved off his spots, asserting himself physically, because where Wemby is least efficient as an offensive player is as an isolationist. He's only in the sixteenth percentile. And why is that? Again? If you have the sort of feisty wings or forwards who we're talking about, you can force him to settle a lot, and Wenby's a forty percent mid range shooter and you can force him into some turnovers. And that's why he's just not the most impactful offensive player yet. And you see that with the numbers two. The Spurs offensive rating does not change if Wenby's on the floor compar to offit this year. Now, I definitely think he's a plus offensively, but I do think that that's telling massive defensive on off differential not there offensively. I am excited to see how he and Fox can establish their two man game. How Fox his quickness in downhill threat, even though he's not weaponizing that as much as I would like, can open up things for Wemby as a popper and maybe as a roller as well. And I just think he's always going to be at his best offensively when he is allowed to play a more efficient role and he has guards creating stuff for him. Because his physical tools there and his skill is so overwhelming. It's harder to ask a guy with his size and his frame to create for himself at that high volume. But he is going to have to get better there for me to move him up higher and have real real faith in him in the playoffs. Offensively, who is in your number nine spot? Logan?

I played with having this guy up to number seven, and I thought I was gonna have him higher, but ultimately I decided against it. I have my beautiful darling baby boy, Anthony Edwards in here at number.

I played with having this guy up to number seven, and I thought I was gonna have him higher, but ultimately I decided against it. I have my beautiful darling baby boy, Anthony Edwards in here at number.

Nine above Wemby.

Nine above Wemby.

Wow. I do just for right now, and I think it's only a matter of time. I also think it's only a matter of time that some of these old guys dwindled down and Wemby both are are gonna be there. We keep saying that, Yeah, I don't know, Maybe Lebron will play until he's fucking fifty and he'll still be there. Ultimately, that's what I was deciding with is at this point, I just couldn't do it. As much as I love Anthony Edwards. I just thought about it and I said I can't take I would still want Lebron, and it mostly it to do with the playoffs, because I think that's important, because I think if you're adding in the argument that it's eighty two games and the playoffs, which is how I'm thinking about it, I think that some of the younger guys have an advantage, but I do value the playoffs more and Ant still has a few areas to get really refined before I can have him higher on this list. One. It's really just the intermediate area because what I always envisioned Ant being was this crazy downhill force, this downhill presence, this one of one athlete that can explode and fly by anybody if you don't have the right defensive personnel to match up with him. And then he was gonna couple it with this elite pull up jump shooting, and that's what we've had this year. He is still every bit of that downhill presence. Now he doesn't get downhill as often because some of the spacing issues. I think he's just more confident as a jump shooter too, where he's willing to just pull more often. He's got the green light but Ant still can at will get there. But he's an elite jump shooter now he is. I write out this stat I think a while back on the show, but it really is remarkable. He's one of four players in NBA history to shoot over forty percent from deep on over ten threes game. That list includes Steph Curry, Damian Lillard, and Clay Thompson, and the fourth guy is Anthony Edwards. That's it. That's the entire list. Those are three of the game's greatest shooters ever. And to people who may go, oh, it's unsustainable, it's a one year off. Maybe this is the best that ever gets. Sure, you might be right, I don't think so. I think an It's gonna be one of the greatest shooters ever. Is he gonna be Clay Dame Steph? I can't say that they're anomalies. Those guys are freaks of nature. Can't Ant be a top twenty, a top ten shooter? Yeah? I think he can. Like the way he practices on it, like this has been such a focal point of his development and such a key area where he's worked to get better at that. I think this is sustainable where he's gonna be a thirty eight percent plus shooter on high volume for a long time, which is excellent. And with how you have to play a guy like AMT because you have to sag off of him and give him that cushion, he's gonna be able to get those shots really easily. Like that's just how guys play him, because if you play up on him, he's gonna blow right by you and get to the rim. The reason he can't be higher is those very specific areas of his offensive game where I need to see more development. I think he's gotten better as a playmaker, but it's inconsistent. Some Knights will be a world beater with his playmaking and he's getting downhill and he's getting extra defensive attention. Other nights he's not as solid. The intermediate area really is where he struggles scoring the ball. Though he's a thirty six percent mid range shooter I think right now, and that's an area where he's he does take a fair amount of shots, like he settles in that area. He's just not a good shooter and you can have outliers. He's not a great intermediate shooter. I think he's a great perimeter shooter right now, but it's really that touch in that area because you'll see it. That's how guys will play him. They'll load up the paint, you know, if it's Go Bear, if it's Randall or something like that, they'll take that away. And his counter is to stop and pop. And that's just the least efficient shot in his arsenal right now, and teams can force him to settle for it sometimes. And I don't think he's I think there's only so impactful that a defensive guard can be on that end too, because right some people will argue two way value he should be higher than some guys that aren't as impactful. I think he is a good defensive guard. I think sometimes he can get a little overrated. And also I just think again there's a limitation to how just how great your impact can be on a team defense when you play guard. But I think An it's gonna continue to get better. This feels right right now, though. I just think there are more guys that impact the game in a more well rounded They're just more impactful in totality on defense and an offense. And yeah, I thought Ann was gonna be higher for me, man, I'm a little disappointed. I wanted to have him higher. There's just guys that I trust more veterans of the game that I trust a little bit more right now than Ant. And situation is important, I think to mention I always mention this with Ant, but I really do think he would be I think he'd be more efficient. I think we'd see him have a more pronounced impact on offense if he wasn't in such a bad offensive situation. But the Wolves have looked better, you know, McDaniels is figuring it out. Julius Randall's playing team ball right now. I'm not gonna buy in and say that it's like a great offensive situation, but it's better than it was at the beginning of this year. And I think Ann has looked better too during this last stretch. So I don't know, Carson, I can't even say with confidence. Year we're talking about Wemby figuring out these things and what it's gonna take for him to get to the next level. I don't know, man, I don't know how long Ann is gonna struggle with these things. Right, he added the three point shot to his bag, But I'm just not as confident as like penciling it in right like with Wemby, I can pretty easily see it. Yeah, I don't know how long that trajectory is gonna be for Ant with the inner and these are things on the margins, right, I would gladly take Anne as my number one. I want to be clear about that. But they are things that make make a difference here in the top ten. I just can't say with like a certain confidence that he's gonna figure it out by next season and be a great playmaker or have the intermediate touch. Yeah, as easy as I can see it.

Wow. I do just for right now, and I think it's only a matter of time. I also think it's only a matter of time that some of these old guys dwindled down and Wemby both are are gonna be there. We keep saying that, Yeah, I don't know, Maybe Lebron will play until he's fucking fifty and he'll still be there. Ultimately, that's what I was deciding with is at this point, I just couldn't do it. As much as I love Anthony Edwards. I just thought about it and I said I can't take I would still want Lebron, and it mostly it to do with the playoffs, because I think that's important, because I think if you're adding in the argument that it's eighty two games and the playoffs, which is how I'm thinking about it, I think that some of the younger guys have an advantage, but I do value the playoffs more and Ant still has a few areas to get really refined before I can have him higher on this list. One. It's really just the intermediate area because what I always envisioned Ant being was this crazy downhill force, this downhill presence, this one of one athlete that can explode and fly by anybody if you don't have the right defensive personnel to match up with him. And then he was gonna couple it with this elite pull up jump shooting, and that's what we've had this year. He is still every bit of that downhill presence. Now he doesn't get downhill as often because some of the spacing issues. I think he's just more confident as a jump shooter too, where he's willing to just pull more often. He's got the green light but Ant still can at will get there. But he's an elite jump shooter now he is. I write out this stat I think a while back on the show, but it really is remarkable. He's one of four players in NBA history to shoot over forty percent from deep on over ten threes game. That list includes Steph Curry, Damian Lillard, and Clay Thompson, and the fourth guy is Anthony Edwards. That's it. That's the entire list. Those are three of the game's greatest shooters ever. And to people who may go, oh, it's unsustainable, it's a one year off. Maybe this is the best that ever gets. Sure, you might be right, I don't think so. I think an It's gonna be one of the greatest shooters ever. Is he gonna be Clay Dame Steph? I can't say that they're anomalies. Those guys are freaks of nature. Can't Ant be a top twenty, a top ten shooter? Yeah? I think he can. Like the way he practices on it, like this has been such a focal point of his development and such a key area where he's worked to get better at that. I think this is sustainable where he's gonna be a thirty eight percent plus shooter on high volume for a long time, which is excellent. And with how you have to play a guy like AMT because you have to sag off of him and give him that cushion, he's gonna be able to get those shots really easily. Like that's just how guys play him, because if you play up on him, he's gonna blow right by you and get to the rim. The reason he can't be higher is those very specific areas of his offensive game where I need to see more development. I think he's gotten better as a playmaker, but it's inconsistent. Some Knights will be a world beater with his playmaking and he's getting downhill and he's getting extra defensive attention. Other nights he's not as solid. The intermediate area really is where he struggles scoring the ball. Though he's a thirty six percent mid range shooter I think right now, and that's an area where he's he does take a fair amount of shots, like he settles in that area. He's just not a good shooter and you can have outliers. He's not a great intermediate shooter. I think he's a great perimeter shooter right now, but it's really that touch in that area because you'll see it. That's how guys will play him. They'll load up the paint, you know, if it's Go Bear, if it's Randall or something like that, they'll take that away. And his counter is to stop and pop. And that's just the least efficient shot in his arsenal right now, and teams can force him to settle for it sometimes. And I don't think he's I think there's only so impactful that a defensive guard can be on that end too, because right some people will argue two way value he should be higher than some guys that aren't as impactful. I think he is a good defensive guard. I think sometimes he can get a little overrated. And also I just think again there's a limitation to how just how great your impact can be on a team defense when you play guard. But I think An it's gonna continue to get better. This feels right right now, though. I just think there are more guys that impact the game in a more well rounded They're just more impactful in totality on defense and an offense. And yeah, I thought Ann was gonna be higher for me, man, I'm a little disappointed. I wanted to have him higher. There's just guys that I trust more veterans of the game that I trust a little bit more right now than Ant. And situation is important, I think to mention I always mention this with Ant, but I really do think he would be I think he'd be more efficient. I think we'd see him have a more pronounced impact on offense if he wasn't in such a bad offensive situation. But the Wolves have looked better, you know, McDaniels is figuring it out. Julius Randall's playing team ball right now. I'm not gonna buy in and say that it's like a great offensive situation, but it's better than it was at the beginning of this year. And I think Ann has looked better too during this last stretch. So I don't know, Carson, I can't even say with confidence. Year we're talking about Wemby figuring out these things and what it's gonna take for him to get to the next level. I don't know, man, I don't know how long Ann is gonna struggle with these things. Right, he added the three point shot to his bag, But I'm just not as confident as like penciling it in right like with Wemby, I can pretty easily see it. Yeah, I don't know how long that trajectory is gonna be for Ant with the inner and these are things on the margins, right, I would gladly take Anne as my number one. I want to be clear about that. But they are things that make make a difference here in the top ten. I just can't say with like a certain confidence that he's gonna figure it out by next season and be a great playmaker or have the intermediate touch. Yeah, as easy as I can see it.

With Wemby, I couldn't say that these things are on the margins. I mean I do think that they're important. Obviously, he has an insane foundation with athletically, he is such a three point shooter exactly.

With Wemby, I couldn't say that these things are on the margins. I mean I do think that they're important. Obviously, he has an insane foundation with athletically, he is such a three point shooter exactly.

He has such elite traits at the top that these are the the you know, the the needles and the haystacks, so to speak.

He has such elite traits at the top that these are the the you know, the the needles and the haystacks, so to speak.

But like that's understanding, it's to me because they're really important. I mean, your playmaking is extremely important if you want to be a star guard. And Ant is still certainly below basically all the offensive players who haven't who I have in my top ten as decision makers. Talking about the offense. First, guys, that's why I have Aunt at number eleven. You mentioned the intermediate shot making, which he's always lacked in his game. He's only thirty eight percent on two pointers outside the restricted area. That is a really bad number. The playmaking is inconsistent with him. I think that there's a lack of faith in his teammates that he's going to have to work through, and so overall offensively, he's just not comparable yet to these like a salute bona fide veteran superstars who have the polish of a Kevin Durant, of a Lebron James, of a Steph Curry. You have that sort of efficiency, who think the game at such a high level, who can be so effective on and off ball. That's basically what it comes down to you. That's why I have Ant outside my top ten.

But like that's understanding, it's to me because they're really important. I mean, your playmaking is extremely important if you want to be a star guard. And Ant is still certainly below basically all the offensive players who haven't who I have in my top ten as decision makers. Talking about the offense. First, guys, that's why I have Aunt at number eleven. You mentioned the intermediate shot making, which he's always lacked in his game. He's only thirty eight percent on two pointers outside the restricted area. That is a really bad number. The playmaking is inconsistent with him. I think that there's a lack of faith in his teammates that he's going to have to work through, and so overall offensively, he's just not comparable yet to these like a salute bona fide veteran superstars who have the polish of a Kevin Durant, of a Lebron James, of a Steph Curry. You have that sort of efficiency, who think the game at such a high level, who can be so effective on and off ball. That's basically what it comes down to you. That's why I have Ant outside my top ten.

I think the downhill. I think that the rim pressure that that Ain't can have in a single series and how he can.

I think the downhill. I think that the rim pressure that that Ain't can have in a single series and how he can.

Just but it's matchup dependent how much Ant actually gets downhill, Like, he's not top ten in the league in drives. You put him up against the Nuggets and they can't contain him at the point of attack, and they don't have the back line defense. He will love that.

Just but it's matchup dependent how much Ant actually gets downhill, Like, he's not top ten in the league in drives. You put him up against the Nuggets and they can't contain him at the point of attack, and they don't have the back line defense. He will love that.

That's really situational dependent that number, though, I mean that will be way up if he wasn't playing with him.

That's really situational dependent that number, though, I mean that will be way up if he wasn't playing with him.

Dude, you say that, But there are guys who played with shitty spacing and still are consistently getting rim pressure and are getting into the lane over and over again. We've seen it WITHNBA and weird lineups. We've seen it with Brune bad offensive lineups. Like those guys who can just slither and change pace at an elite level and carve their way to whatever the spot they get downhill more consistently than an insane straight line athlete like Ant.

Dude, you say that, But there are guys who played with shitty spacing and still are consistently getting rim pressure and are getting into the lane over and over again. We've seen it WITHNBA and weird lineups. We've seen it with Brune bad offensive lineups. Like those guys who can just slither and change pace at an elite level and carve their way to whatever the spot they get downhill more consistently than an insane straight line athlete like Ant.

But I think that's under selling the change of pace and like Ant has that like.

But I think that's under selling the change of pace and like Ant has that like.

Bronson, Dude, dude, in terms of changing pace and sliveriness.

Bronson, Dude, dude, in terms of changing pace and sliveriness.

Some of the stuff that Ant does, I'm not gonna put him on SGA's level, But dude, how low Ant gets to the ground, Like, I don't know, Man, I think you're underselling it a little bit. And I think a lot of this comes because teams don't have to respect to Big Man, they don't have to respect Gobert. They can send this extra attention. Again, I think a lot of this is matchup dependent, but I think you're under selling Ant's ability to blow by guys. That's why he's a Tier one guy to me and in the top ten, is because if you don't have that guy that can stop him at the point of attacker. Talking about his matchup dependent, a lot of teams don't have a guy to match up with him. The Nuggets are one of them. But you gotta have that guy. I think a lot of teams don't have an answer for Ant.

Some of the stuff that Ant does, I'm not gonna put him on SGA's level, But dude, how low Ant gets to the ground, Like, I don't know, Man, I think you're underselling it a little bit. And I think a lot of this comes because teams don't have to respect to Big Man, they don't have to respect Gobert. They can send this extra attention. Again, I think a lot of this is matchup dependent, but I think you're under selling Ant's ability to blow by guys. That's why he's a Tier one guy to me and in the top ten, is because if you don't have that guy that can stop him at the point of attacker. Talking about his matchup dependent, a lot of teams don't have a guy to match up with him. The Nuggets are one of them. But you gotta have that guy. I think a lot of teams don't have an answer for Ant.

Here's what I would say, Anthony Edwards. The last season before he started playing with Rudy Gobert was forty somethings in the NBA and drives. I think that you over state he was an All star. He was a star basketball player.

Here's what I would say, Anthony Edwards. The last season before he started playing with Rudy Gobert was forty somethings in the NBA and drives. I think that you over state he was an All star. He was a star basketball player.

He was twenty one.

He was twenty one.

Yeah, okay, but logan, it hasn't gotten significantly better than that. Like, he's still consistently outside the top fifteen. With his athletic traits, you would think this is a guy who gets all the way downhill more, this is a guy who gets to the line at a meteorc rate. But it's never been the case to the extent that I think you're saying it would be. If not for Rudy Gobert. That's what I would say, Like, I'm not saying that he does not have the ability to be an insane rim pressure, but I am saying he is not consistently a top tier rim pressure. He's not, and that's not just because of situation that's been consistent with him. And there's just a different level of offensive maturity, man, like a shaw making that I'm getting, the playmaking I'm getting from like these dudes. It for decades. It's crazy.

Yeah, okay, but logan, it hasn't gotten significantly better than that. Like, he's still consistently outside the top fifteen. With his athletic traits, you would think this is a guy who gets all the way downhill more, this is a guy who gets to the line at a meteorc rate. But it's never been the case to the extent that I think you're saying it would be. If not for Rudy Gobert. That's what I would say, Like, I'm not saying that he does not have the ability to be an insane rim pressure, but I am saying he is not consistently a top tier rim pressure. He's not, and that's not just because of situation that's been consistent with him. And there's just a different level of offensive maturity, man, like a shaw making that I'm getting, the playmaking I'm getting from like these dudes. It for decades. It's crazy.

The reason and is in the top ten to me is because he is one of those dudes in a playoff series that I think can be big dog. I think he can be top dog in a playoff series. I think he can outplay your number one because he's a psychotic competitor, a killer. He's got that instinct. I want that guy on my team every single day. And I think he's always gonna scale well and get better in the playoffs because he's a gamer. And I know that's a lot of cliche stuff, but I truly believe all that about Ant and I think he's only gonna get better with time. I don't know, man, I know we always disagree on Ann I don't want to beat this dead horse, but uh, I think we're gonna see it again. Man, I wouldn't want to play dead dude in the playoff series. We'll see how he plays this year. I think it's gonna be comparable to the first two rounds of last year, or maybe even better. Man, I think Ant's that kind of player.

The reason and is in the top ten to me is because he is one of those dudes in a playoff series that I think can be big dog. I think he can be top dog in a playoff series. I think he can outplay your number one because he's a psychotic competitor, a killer. He's got that instinct. I want that guy on my team every single day. And I think he's always gonna scale well and get better in the playoffs because he's a gamer. And I know that's a lot of cliche stuff, but I truly believe all that about Ant and I think he's only gonna get better with time. I don't know, man, I know we always disagree on Ann I don't want to beat this dead horse, but uh, I think we're gonna see it again. Man, I wouldn't want to play dead dude in the playoff series. We'll see how he plays this year. I think it's gonna be comparable to the first two rounds of last year, or maybe even better. Man, I think Ant's that kind of player.

You're a huge at guy. I know it, and by the way, I love Ant two, I just feel like sometimes I'm trying to be sort of the balancing out of your extreme enthusiasm with him. I am still preferring either just like an absolute two way monster like Wemby, who is so transformative on the defensive end and then still so good offensively, or again the sort of offensive super established giants like Steph Curry in my number nine spot, Steph another hard guy to rank. Logan's acting shocked. Here's the reason that I don't have Steph higher, and I don't know how high you're gonna have him. I just cannot say that he is as reliably great offensively night after night, regardless of situation as he was a couple of years ago, or as the guys who I have higher on my list are I mean, I still think that he's a top five offensive player on the planet, but there are guys who are close offensively but then bring more defensive impact. Right Like, Steph has regressed, man, I know that he is on an absolute heater as of late. He has been phenomenal with Jimmy Butler. The Dubs are fifteen and two. When those guys play together, steph average is twenty seven and a half points per game on over sixty six percent true shooting. But before Jimmy the Dubs were nineteen and twenty four, Steph was giving you twenty three points per game on under sixty percent true shooting. Now, I feel like I was very vocal about the fact that before the Jimmy trade, Steph was in a bad situation offensively, and he was still dramatically improving that situation. And he was asked to carry a load night after night that just was not possible for him at his age. But that is a component in this. Right Like, Steph has lost some on ball juice. We've seen that over the last couple of years. He took a step back last year, and then he took another step back this year, where he's only a fifty seventh percentile pick and roll score. He's a forty eighth percentile isolation scorer. Those are numbers that even a couple years ago and throughout his prime were consistently both better than ninetieth percentile. Like, he does not get to the rim, didn't last year either, and he's just not creating space on ball at the same level that he was a few years ago because he's lost some of that quickness. So that means that because he has lost something on ball, his consistency has taken a hit. Steph has eleven games with fifteen points or fewer this year. He has some like horribly ugly performances against Memphis, against Boston where he is actually giving you two points right, struggling to even get shots up and cannot make shots. Obviously, he's looked like a different player since Jimmy was brought in, and I think that he's been more energized and he's been more dynamic, and he has very much been aided by having another high level scoring threat on the floor and having a really great connective playmaker like Jimmy, an athlete like Jimmy who enhances him in a number of ways. And obviously like STEP's gravity and shooting still unmatched. That's why he's as high as he is. That's why he is such a dominant offensive player, and he's improved the Warriors offense by eleven points per one hundred possessions when he's on the floor compared to Offen. But like, I think it mapp seeing what he looks like in a bad situation because the dudes above him, simply put, I think would probably be more consistent because they have more of that dynamic on ball creation. At this stage that's dropped off for Steph. I still think that he is a phenomenal ceiling raiser. I think he makes everybody around him better offensively, but there are guys who are more consistently impactful as two way players, because that's where Steph is up there for the least impactful guy on this list. I mean, Steph obviously has major defensive limitations. That's why I have him down here. I love how high the highs have been, but I can't ignore that the lows were lower than basically anybody else that we're going to talk about today.

You're a huge at guy. I know it, and by the way, I love Ant two, I just feel like sometimes I'm trying to be sort of the balancing out of your extreme enthusiasm with him. I am still preferring either just like an absolute two way monster like Wemby, who is so transformative on the defensive end and then still so good offensively, or again the sort of offensive super established giants like Steph Curry in my number nine spot, Steph another hard guy to rank. Logan's acting shocked. Here's the reason that I don't have Steph higher, and I don't know how high you're gonna have him. I just cannot say that he is as reliably great offensively night after night, regardless of situation as he was a couple of years ago, or as the guys who I have higher on my list are I mean, I still think that he's a top five offensive player on the planet, but there are guys who are close offensively but then bring more defensive impact. Right Like, Steph has regressed, man, I know that he is on an absolute heater as of late. He has been phenomenal with Jimmy Butler. The Dubs are fifteen and two. When those guys play together, steph average is twenty seven and a half points per game on over sixty six percent true shooting. But before Jimmy the Dubs were nineteen and twenty four, Steph was giving you twenty three points per game on under sixty percent true shooting. Now, I feel like I was very vocal about the fact that before the Jimmy trade, Steph was in a bad situation offensively, and he was still dramatically improving that situation. And he was asked to carry a load night after night that just was not possible for him at his age. But that is a component in this. Right Like, Steph has lost some on ball juice. We've seen that over the last couple of years. He took a step back last year, and then he took another step back this year, where he's only a fifty seventh percentile pick and roll score. He's a forty eighth percentile isolation scorer. Those are numbers that even a couple years ago and throughout his prime were consistently both better than ninetieth percentile. Like, he does not get to the rim, didn't last year either, and he's just not creating space on ball at the same level that he was a few years ago because he's lost some of that quickness. So that means that because he has lost something on ball, his consistency has taken a hit. Steph has eleven games with fifteen points or fewer this year. He has some like horribly ugly performances against Memphis, against Boston where he is actually giving you two points right, struggling to even get shots up and cannot make shots. Obviously, he's looked like a different player since Jimmy was brought in, and I think that he's been more energized and he's been more dynamic, and he has very much been aided by having another high level scoring threat on the floor and having a really great connective playmaker like Jimmy, an athlete like Jimmy who enhances him in a number of ways. And obviously like STEP's gravity and shooting still unmatched. That's why he's as high as he is. That's why he is such a dominant offensive player, and he's improved the Warriors offense by eleven points per one hundred possessions when he's on the floor compared to Offen. But like, I think it mapp seeing what he looks like in a bad situation because the dudes above him, simply put, I think would probably be more consistent because they have more of that dynamic on ball creation. At this stage that's dropped off for Steph. I still think that he is a phenomenal ceiling raiser. I think he makes everybody around him better offensively, but there are guys who are more consistently impactful as two way players, because that's where Steph is up there for the least impactful guy on this list. I mean, Steph obviously has major defensive limitations. That's why I have him down here. I love how high the highs have been, but I can't ignore that the lows were lower than basically anybody else that we're going to talk about today.

So I guess I had mine kind of situationally dependent like I do knock Ant because I don't think he's amplified by his situation. I don't really knock that Steph wasn't good before Jimmy Butler. I think it's important that we see what he looks like there. But I think he's so much like I think he's amplified so much by now having Jimmy and Dre there that, like, I don't want to just completely wipe it away, but I think he's enhanced by this situation now to where I'm confident in having him higher on this list. I've got Steph at number six, Like, I just still think he's that kind of offensive player that, like I was saying with Ant, like, Steph still that guy that number one can just big dog you in a playoff series and take over in a way that nobody else can. And I get some of the on ball juice stuff, but he's still one of the most effective off ball scorers in basketball. He's the number fifteen of all time.

So I guess I had mine kind of situationally dependent like I do knock Ant because I don't think he's amplified by his situation. I don't really knock that Steph wasn't good before Jimmy Butler. I think it's important that we see what he looks like there. But I think he's so much like I think he's amplified so much by now having Jimmy and Dre there that, like, I don't want to just completely wipe it away, but I think he's enhanced by this situation now to where I'm confident in having him higher on this list. I've got Steph at number six, Like, I just still think he's that kind of offensive player that, like I was saying with Ant, like, Steph still that guy that number one can just big dog you in a playoff series and take over in a way that nobody else can. And I get some of the on ball juice stuff, but he's still one of the most effective off ball scorers in basketball. He's the number fifteen of all time.

Yeah, greatest softball player, Number one. Yeah.

Yeah, greatest softball player, Number one. Yeah.

He's the number thirteen cutter in the NBA, averaging one point four to six points per cut. He's the number fifteen spot up scorer in the league minimum two possessions a game one point twenty eight points per spot up possession, and with Jimmy, he's given you twenty seven to four and five on forty eight forty one ninety one, sixty six percent true shooting since he came over. I get that Steph has lost a little something that he doesn't get to the rim as much anymore. I still think Steph's a Tier one offensive player, a guy that completely shapes the opposing team's defense that you have to game plan specifically for him. I think with the introduction to Jimmy that I have more confidence that he's going to be consistent on a night tonight basis. And maybe I shouldn't take situation into account, but I do, and I think that now that Jimmy's here, I'm just more confident that Steph's gonna play better or not have as many of these stinkers. Obviously, I don't think he's the same player that he was in his prime, but I'm still very, very scared of Steph Curry, and he's again a Tier one offensive guy that I want on my basketball team. One of the guys that I have below Steph, I don't think is a Tier one offensive player. The other guy I just wouldn't rather have for all eighty two games in a playoff run. An individual game is an interesting conversation, but I side with Steph.

He's the number thirteen cutter in the NBA, averaging one point four to six points per cut. He's the number fifteen spot up scorer in the league minimum two possessions a game one point twenty eight points per spot up possession, and with Jimmy, he's given you twenty seven to four and five on forty eight forty one ninety one, sixty six percent true shooting since he came over. I get that Steph has lost a little something that he doesn't get to the rim as much anymore. I still think Steph's a Tier one offensive player, a guy that completely shapes the opposing team's defense that you have to game plan specifically for him. I think with the introduction to Jimmy that I have more confidence that he's going to be consistent on a night tonight basis. And maybe I shouldn't take situation into account, but I do, and I think that now that Jimmy's here, I'm just more confident that Steph's gonna play better or not have as many of these stinkers. Obviously, I don't think he's the same player that he was in his prime, but I'm still very, very scared of Steph Curry, and he's again a Tier one offensive guy that I want on my basketball team. One of the guys that I have below Steph, I don't think is a Tier one offensive player. The other guy I just wouldn't rather have for all eighty two games in a playoff run. An individual game is an interesting conversation, but I side with Steph.

Otherwise I can't have Steph as a Tier one offensive player. I mean it's kind of hard because realistically, I think the Tier one of offensive players right now is only Niko Jokis. I couldn't actually put anybody else in a tier, but if I were to expand, it be more generous than the next two guys for me would be Sga and Luca, because they are such dominant offensive players who have such consistency in terms of their floor raising. Now, Steph is still a great offensive floor raiser, it just looks different, right, It's not going to be as much with on Ballvallume running a ton of pick and roll. It's going to be, Hey, I'm drawing multiple defenders away from the ball, and that's getting somebody else open, and that is extremely valuable offensively. We've seen that throughout his entire career, and we saw that even before Jimmy got there this year. But I do feel like you are ignoring how he looked in suboptimal offensive circumstances too much.

Otherwise I can't have Steph as a Tier one offensive player. I mean it's kind of hard because realistically, I think the Tier one of offensive players right now is only Niko Jokis. I couldn't actually put anybody else in a tier, but if I were to expand, it be more generous than the next two guys for me would be Sga and Luca, because they are such dominant offensive players who have such consistency in terms of their floor raising. Now, Steph is still a great offensive floor raiser, it just looks different, right, It's not going to be as much with on Ballvallume running a ton of pick and roll. It's going to be, Hey, I'm drawing multiple defenders away from the ball, and that's getting somebody else open, and that is extremely valuable offensively. We've seen that throughout his entire career, and we saw that even before Jimmy got there this year. But I do feel like you are ignoring how he looked in suboptimal offensive circumstances too much.

If you haven't under.

If you haven't under.

But Kevin Durant's been an offensive heell, and I think that Kevin Durant has been much more consistent throughout Ye.

But Kevin Durant's been an offensive heell, and I think that Kevin Durant has been much more consistent throughout Ye.

Yeah, dude, I don't think it's comparable with Steph what he was dealing with. I mean, KD had Devin Booker sometimes.

Yeah, dude, I don't think it's comparable with Steph what he was dealing with. I mean, KD had Devin Booker sometimes.

Yeah, I don't know, Ross so much worse in totality, I guess offensively okay, sure, But like the point is, like Katie didn't have a low Katie didn't have a two month stretch where people are saying, you have a game where he had two points, And I think that you have to judge these guys in all situations. I think that this is all a combination of your value for the eighty two game regular season and your value for the playoffs. It's a combination of your value in a good situation as a ceiling raizer and your value in a bad situation as a floor raiser. And I still think Steph was getting too much criticism earlier in the year. But six is just really high in my opinion, especially because of one guy who I think is still at his peak, who is such a dominant two way force. I can't say that with Steph's consistency has an on ball scorer. Yeah that I would take this version of him.

Yeah, I don't know, Ross so much worse in totality, I guess offensively okay, sure, But like the point is, like Katie didn't have a low Katie didn't have a two month stretch where people are saying, you have a game where he had two points, And I think that you have to judge these guys in all situations. I think that this is all a combination of your value for the eighty two game regular season and your value for the playoffs. It's a combination of your value in a good situation as a ceiling raizer and your value in a bad situation as a floor raiser. And I still think Steph was getting too much criticism earlier in the year. But six is just really high in my opinion, especially because of one guy who I think is still at his peak, who is such a dominant two way force. I can't say that with Steph's consistency has an on ball scorer. Yeah that I would take this version of him.

I mean I have them separated by one spot.

I mean I have them separated by one spot.

Yeah, it's just a little high. I love Steph, He's one of my favorite players ever. But I think you gotta acknowledge the lows and the highs, and I think that there are just guys with more consistent floors at this point, and there are guys who just have more overwhelming physical advantages. That is a big part of that. He's Steph Curry. Obviously, he's one of one in his off ball value, in his gravity, but he is more singularly dependent on that, much more than he was even a couple of years ago, when you felt like, yeah, okay, he can just assassinate you out of pick and roll for an entire playoff run, like he was doing even in twenty twenty three. He's looked great as of late, but he's more situationally dependent than he has been before in my opinion. So that's why I have him down at number nine. Who do you have at number eight, Logan?

Yeah, it's just a little high. I love Steph, He's one of my favorite players ever. But I think you gotta acknowledge the lows and the highs, and I think that there are just guys with more consistent floors at this point, and there are guys who just have more overwhelming physical advantages. That is a big part of that. He's Steph Curry. Obviously, he's one of one in his off ball value, in his gravity, but he is more singularly dependent on that, much more than he was even a couple of years ago, when you felt like, yeah, okay, he can just assassinate you out of pick and roll for an entire playoff run, like he was doing even in twenty twenty three. He's looked great as of late, but he's more situationally dependent than he has been before in my opinion. So that's why I have him down at number nine. Who do you have at number eight, Logan?

I would hear an argument for still that this guy is top five, depending on what your criteria is. I have Lebron James in my number eight spot, and like I was mentioning earlier, I think that this is implied that this is for an eighty two game season and for a playoff run. That being said, like the caveat I just added at the beginning, Lebron James is still a top five player I would want for a single game or a playoff series, no doubt in my mind, like him or Tatum, i'd be sitting there like damn, I don't really know, man, Like eighty two games in a playoff run, It's pretty clear to me that I would want JT for all of it because JT's won't give me one hundred percent every single game, right, and Lebron can still crank it up into that, you know, high gear. He can still pop the clutch when he needs to, and that's why I would hear an argument. So for a single game or a playoff series, I'm Lebron's coming off the board. He's way higher than this, but in the full context of a regular season and a playoff run, he is here at number eight. That being said, the level that Lebron was at over these past few months before getting injured was ridiculous and I think honestly underrated for this whole season, just to still be doing this at the at the ripe age of forty man Lebron's agent like fine wine. Over the course of the season twenty five eight to nine on fifty two thirty eight, seventy six splits, sixty one percent true shooting, Lebron was still the number nineteen isolation score in the NBA, the number fifteen post score in the NBA this season, less efficient than last year where he was really great at mismatch attacking, but still an efficient player. The number that blew my mind the most. Carson and everybody was talking about Lebron locking up and playing great defense, and we saw it. You know, he came up with some classic chase down blocks, like some big moments stuff like that. Lebron was the number one isolation defender in basketball this season with no minimum possessions defended per game. He was allowing point three to eight points per isolation possession defended. Like that's ridiculous to me. So you're still getting all of that impact with Lebron when he's fully locked in and engaged, you're getting an elite shoot of the basketball you're getting the smartest player I think to ever play this game. You're getting a guy that can be an elite defender when he needs to. It's the same thing that we've always said about Lebron. It's the picking his spots. But the Olympics, to me, you know, they weren't that long ago, and Lebron dominated on the global stage, and like those are individual game formats, and again in those kind of formats and a playoff individual game context, there's no doubt in my mind that Lebron should and would be higher on my list. But the only reason that he can't be higher is that night to night impact that I know that Lebron just can't exert himself like he did when he was still in the league twenty years ago.

I would hear an argument for still that this guy is top five, depending on what your criteria is. I have Lebron James in my number eight spot, and like I was mentioning earlier, I think that this is implied that this is for an eighty two game season and for a playoff run. That being said, like the caveat I just added at the beginning, Lebron James is still a top five player I would want for a single game or a playoff series, no doubt in my mind, like him or Tatum, i'd be sitting there like damn, I don't really know, man, Like eighty two games in a playoff run, It's pretty clear to me that I would want JT for all of it because JT's won't give me one hundred percent every single game, right, and Lebron can still crank it up into that, you know, high gear. He can still pop the clutch when he needs to, and that's why I would hear an argument. So for a single game or a playoff series, I'm Lebron's coming off the board. He's way higher than this, but in the full context of a regular season and a playoff run, he is here at number eight. That being said, the level that Lebron was at over these past few months before getting injured was ridiculous and I think honestly underrated for this whole season, just to still be doing this at the at the ripe age of forty man Lebron's agent like fine wine. Over the course of the season twenty five eight to nine on fifty two thirty eight, seventy six splits, sixty one percent true shooting, Lebron was still the number nineteen isolation score in the NBA, the number fifteen post score in the NBA this season, less efficient than last year where he was really great at mismatch attacking, but still an efficient player. The number that blew my mind the most. Carson and everybody was talking about Lebron locking up and playing great defense, and we saw it. You know, he came up with some classic chase down blocks, like some big moments stuff like that. Lebron was the number one isolation defender in basketball this season with no minimum possessions defended per game. He was allowing point three to eight points per isolation possession defended. Like that's ridiculous to me. So you're still getting all of that impact with Lebron when he's fully locked in and engaged, you're getting an elite shoot of the basketball you're getting the smartest player I think to ever play this game. You're getting a guy that can be an elite defender when he needs to. It's the same thing that we've always said about Lebron. It's the picking his spots. But the Olympics, to me, you know, they weren't that long ago, and Lebron dominated on the global stage, and like those are individual game formats, and again in those kind of formats and a playoff individual game context, there's no doubt in my mind that Lebron should and would be higher on my list. But the only reason that he can't be higher is that night to night impact that I know that Lebron just can't exert himself like he did when he was still in the league twenty years ago.

He's forty.

He's forty.

Yeah, I'm hoping I'm walking when I'm forty, Carson, That's ridiculous, man, No.

Yeah, I'm hoping I'm walking when I'm forty, Carson, That's ridiculous, man, No.

You won't be, and you won't be seeing a goddamn thing, and I'll be carrying you around everywhere like my little baby. I already got it. I'll play it out. It's gonna be just great. I have Lebron at number eight as well. In a lot of ways, I have some similar dilemmas ranking him that I do with Steph, which is that when things are good, these guys have shown that they can reach an incredibly high level. But am I going to get the consistent elite value over the entire course of an eighty two game season from them that I am from some younger guys who just have more juice night after night. No, Because, just like Steph had a stretch of the season where he was struggling in terms of his scoring volume and efficiency and was not playing like a top ten guy, Lebron started out this season not playing like a top ten guy certainly. I mean his first twenty five games this year, he was giving you twenty two points per game on fifty seven percent true shooting blow league average efficiency or basically league average efficiency. He was mostly bad defensively, and his team was way worse with him on the floor. But then since then, now more than half of the season, he's giving you twenty seven, eight and eight on sixty three percent true shooting, and he's been engaged defensively, and he's been a plus. There. You said elite defensively, I could not go that far. I just think with his regression guarding the perimeter, his regression in terms of foot speed there, I couldn't say elite, but definitely plus. I mean with his IQ, with his activity on rotations, what he can do as a low man and a defensive rebounder. Lebron is a good defender when he wants to be, and he's mostly wanted to be for more than half of the season now. So that's the struggle with him. That's the struggle with Steph in my opinion, these guys who are all time great players, who still have such high hides, but they do have lower lows than some other guys. That being said, I still gave them both the edge over Wemby just because I do have that much more faith in them offensively in a playoff environment. But it does matter to me that Lebron cannot carry a team throughout a regular season at this stage. In his minutes this year, without Luca or Ad on the floor, whoever his superstar teammate is, the Lakers are a negative three team. Specifically when Ad was still on the team. I mean the differential between the only a d minutes where the Lakers were actually a really good team. They were plus eight in terms of net rating, compared to the only Lebron minutes when they were a really bad team. They were a negative seven net rating team like that was jarring.