The volume. Oh my god, how could he do that? By watch.

The volume. Oh my god, how could he do that? By watch.

What Charles Darwin?

What Charles Darwin?

The nerves is where it's at. Welcome everybody back. It's your nerd Sash as always, I'm Carson Breber and alongside me is Logan Camden, and we want to wish you all a very happy new year. Welcome to twenty twenty five. Logan and I were welcome to twenty twenty five with a brutal, brutal loss for our Arizona State Sun Devils in the College Football Playoff. Were you locked in on that game, Logan? Did you watch a majority of it?

The nerves is where it's at. Welcome everybody back. It's your nerd Sash as always, I'm Carson Breber and alongside me is Logan Camden, and we want to wish you all a very happy new year. Welcome to twenty twenty five. Logan and I were welcome to twenty twenty five with a brutal, brutal loss for our Arizona State Sun Devils in the College Football Playoff. Were you locked in on that game, Logan? Did you watch a majority of it?

I saw we were down fourteen to three, but I turned it back on when we tied it up at twenty four, and I was locked in through overtime.

I saw we were down fourteen to three, but I turned it back on when we tied it up at twenty four, and I was locked in through overtime.

Oh man, you missed the best part. The journey back was magical. A lot of missed opportunities throughout that entire game. For issue, I don't really want to get into it, but Camp Scataboo is.

Oh man, you missed the best part. The journey back was magical. A lot of missed opportunities throughout that entire game. For issue, I don't really want to get into it, but Camp Scataboo is.

Text super dude. I mean, the kicker let us off the hook.

Text super dude. I mean, the kicker let us off the hook.

I know, but ASU had a block field goal. ASU had more than double Texas's yards when they were still down twenty four to eight, because they just couldn't finish drives in the red zone, and then obviously you have the potentially missed targeting call in my opinion, at least at the end of regulation fourth and thirteen that Quinn Yewers converts or ASU sends seven. I'm opposed to bringing that much pressure in a spot like that, especially because you're showing pressure. Texas has an amazing offensive line they're max protecting, and like you end up getting zero pressure and it's just a very easy completion in that spot. But whatever. Yeah, it's a tough loss for the Sun Devils, but it's also an incredible, incredible season. Program was in ruins two years ago, decimated by a recruiting scandal that the great Herm Edwards and Antonio Pierce, by the way, had left behind. And Kenny Dillingham is just an absolute monster and Campscataboo is a monster. So I think you have to be thrilled with that season for ASU, no matter what. But we're not talking about college football today, Logan, No, we aren't. We're talking about the NBA. And I'll tell you what, there is not a player on the planet who is coming into the new year hotter than one Shay Gilgess Alexander Logan, who has the OKC thunder at twenty seven to five and has himself in some big time conversations. So I gotta ask Logan, do you think SGA is now the MVP front runner?

I know, but ASU had a block field goal. ASU had more than double Texas's yards when they were still down twenty four to eight, because they just couldn't finish drives in the red zone, and then obviously you have the potentially missed targeting call in my opinion, at least at the end of regulation fourth and thirteen that Quinn Yewers converts or ASU sends seven. I'm opposed to bringing that much pressure in a spot like that, especially because you're showing pressure. Texas has an amazing offensive line they're max protecting, and like you end up getting zero pressure and it's just a very easy completion in that spot. But whatever. Yeah, it's a tough loss for the Sun Devils, but it's also an incredible, incredible season. Program was in ruins two years ago, decimated by a recruiting scandal that the great Herm Edwards and Antonio Pierce, by the way, had left behind. And Kenny Dillingham is just an absolute monster and Campscataboo is a monster. So I think you have to be thrilled with that season for ASU, no matter what. But we're not talking about college football today, Logan, No, we aren't. We're talking about the NBA. And I'll tell you what, there is not a player on the planet who is coming into the new year hotter than one Shay Gilgess Alexander Logan, who has the OKC thunder at twenty seven to five and has himself in some big time conversations. So I gotta ask Logan, do you think SGA is now the MVP front runner?

He's got a hell of a case. Right now. SGA is putting up thirty one, six and six on nearly sixty four percent true shooting, with two steals a game and one point two blocks per game. Right now, it's the tenth most efficient thirty point per game season ever. Only six other players in NBA history I have ever had a thirty point per game season this efficiently, And he would become just the eleventh player to average thirty points per game for three straight seasons if he ends up being over the thirty points per game mark cardson real quick. Yeah, ohtriguing into it into a trivia time. I've got the ten names, all right?

He's got a hell of a case. Right now. SGA is putting up thirty one, six and six on nearly sixty four percent true shooting, with two steals a game and one point two blocks per game. Right now, it's the tenth most efficient thirty point per game season ever. Only six other players in NBA history I have ever had a thirty point per game season this efficiently, And he would become just the eleventh player to average thirty points per game for three straight seasons if he ends up being over the thirty points per game mark cardson real quick. Yeah, ohtriguing into it into a trivia time. I've got the ten names, all right?

Can I give the first shout out to Bob McAdoo. That's correct, of course, Bob mcadow is here. We are going to have Michael Jordan, obviously, we have Kobe right from five through oh seven.

Can I give the first shout out to Bob McAdoo. That's correct, of course, Bob mcadow is here. We are going to have Michael Jordan, obviously, we have Kobe right from five through oh seven.

Kobe actually does even do it in five?

Kobe actually does even do it in five?

Did it in six? And seven? Did a I get thirty plus and three straight years?

Did it in six? And seven? Did a I get thirty plus and three straight years?

Not three straight. He's got two different onents where he goes back to back.

Not three straight. He's got two different onents where he goes back to back.

But okay, well I haven't said Wilt Chamberlain. He's obviously here. It's correct, elgind Baylor will be here sixty one to sixty three. Who else is going to be up here? Not Girvin?

But okay, well I haven't said Wilt Chamberlain. He's obviously here. It's correct, elgind Baylor will be here sixty one to sixty three. Who else is going to be up here? Not Girvin?

I don't think you do have a scoring wing. But it's not Girvin. I think Gervin only did it once.

I don't think you do have a scoring wing. But it's not Girvin. I think Gervin only did it once.

I don't think Kadie did thirty and three straight years? Did he?

I don't think Kadie did thirty and three straight years? Did he?

He did? Not?

He did? Not?

We have a scoring wing? Well, it's not Teamak. He only hit thirty in the three season.

We have a scoring wing? Well, it's not Teamak. He only hit thirty in the three season.

Yeah, you can debate how much this guy impacted winning. You can't debate how much he got buckets though?

Yeah, you can debate how much this guy impacted winning. You can't debate how much he got buckets though?

Is it Neak?

Is it Neak?

No? Okay, I didn't think it was right timeline. You know this guy?

No? Okay, I didn't think it was right timeline. You know this guy?

Oh, it's Adrian Dantly. Didn't he do it four straight years?

Oh, it's Adrian Dantly. Didn't he do it four straight years?

I think?

I think?

So monster and so efficient too? Okay, Harden?

So monster and so efficient too? Okay, Harden?

Harden is correct?

Harden is correct?

Who else have I not gotten? Luca hasn't done it three straight years? Has he?

Who else have I not gotten? Luca hasn't done it three straight years? Has he?

He hasn't? You do have two active guys, and then you've got two more throwbacks.

He hasn't? You do have two active guys, and then you've got two more throwbacks.

Two more active guys. H Lebron has never done three straight.

Two more active guys. H Lebron has never done three straight.

Another guy who is amidst his third season straight doing it, he hasn't his numbers have to hold up.

Another guy who is amidst his third season straight doing it, he hasn't his numbers have to hold up.

Oh but we're counting this fellow. Oh well, and b did it the last.

Oh but we're counting this fellow. Oh well, and b did it the last.

Three years, and bad is correct.

Three years, and bad is correct.

He's in his Bob mcadow run of his own. Dame has not done it three straight years. I'm just wanted you to have scored thirty.

He's in his Bob mcadow run of his own. Dame has not done it three straight years. I'm just wanted you to have scored thirty.

Once you get this. The last two guys have something very big in common with this guy.

Once you get this. The last two guys have something very big in common with this guy.

Okay, first of all, is Oscar Robertson on this list.

Okay, first of all, is Oscar Robertson on this list.

Okay, let's pick up the pieces then, and and Kareem abdulgiable bang. And that's a literly.

Okay, let's pick up the pieces then, and and Kareem abdulgiable bang. And that's a literly.

That's a fun question, very fun.

That's a fun question, very fun.

And it's it's crazy. I mean, that's the company that SGA is is with right now. And not only is he doing this, you know he's providing elite offense. He's also tied fifth in stocks per game this season, that steals per game, in blocks per game. So he's got the two way factor to the thunder sixteen points better. With SGA on the floor, they have a one to twenty offensive rating. With SGA, they have a one oh four defensive rating with SGA on the floor, and you know, I just love the I know everybody says this about SGA, but I love the consistency of SGA's game and how well it scales to the playoffs. He is an all time great scorer. I believe that he's lethal from everywhere inside the arc, shooting seventy three percent in the restricted area right now, fifty four percent in the mid range. He's elite in the pick and roll. He's just so difficult to guard there, especially when they set a high pick and roll and he can get that head of steam coming downhill. He's great at finishing softly at high speeds. And I still I think that his game is among there with some of the guys whose best translates to the playoffs. The way he uses physicality, the way he understands space and contact so well like SGA is one of my favorite guys in the league to watch, probably up there with a guy like jokis just the way he initiates contact, and I know defenders don't like it, like I think I saw Jaden McDaniels last night or the other night complaining about it when he bumped him on a shot. But basketball is a contact game, and that's another reason why I like him, how physically he plays. He has eight free throw attempts at night, and I know everybody gets on him with, oh, you know, he's a free throw merchant, this and that. It's a skill. It's a skill issue. And again that's something else that I really like in the play for the playoffs. He also seems impervious to matchups. I don't know if there's a defender that is a good you know, like a good matchup for SGA, just so hard to guard, no matter what type of defender you are. Especially you get a glimpse of that against Minnesota. He has forty points and no answer form Nikhil Alexander Walker, no answer for him. Julius Randall. I'm saying all of this stuff, unfortunately to say that I'd still probably give the MVP to Nikola Jokic. I think right now, I think he's probably still my front runner, and it doesn't have anything to do with like the case or SGA's value. I have no problem if they give him the award. I honestly think it's a three horse race still between him, Jokic and Yannis I would still lean Jokic just because of his impact. I mentioned that he there are six players and that this is the tenth most efficient thirty point per game season ever. Above him on that list is Nikola Jokic. This season, he has the tied fifth highest true shooting percentage in the thirty point per game season, and the Nuggets are a wopping twenty nine points better per one hunder possessions with Jokic on the floor. So I just don't want to I don't want to make this like a negative. There's nothing negative that I can say about SGA's case. It's just that I think Jokic is the best player on the planet, and so that's why I would lean him. But he has a hell of a case, man, I.

And it's it's crazy. I mean, that's the company that SGA is is with right now. And not only is he doing this, you know he's providing elite offense. He's also tied fifth in stocks per game this season, that steals per game, in blocks per game. So he's got the two way factor to the thunder sixteen points better. With SGA on the floor, they have a one to twenty offensive rating. With SGA, they have a one oh four defensive rating with SGA on the floor, and you know, I just love the I know everybody says this about SGA, but I love the consistency of SGA's game and how well it scales to the playoffs. He is an all time great scorer. I believe that he's lethal from everywhere inside the arc, shooting seventy three percent in the restricted area right now, fifty four percent in the mid range. He's elite in the pick and roll. He's just so difficult to guard there, especially when they set a high pick and roll and he can get that head of steam coming downhill. He's great at finishing softly at high speeds. And I still I think that his game is among there with some of the guys whose best translates to the playoffs. The way he uses physicality, the way he understands space and contact so well like SGA is one of my favorite guys in the league to watch, probably up there with a guy like jokis just the way he initiates contact, and I know defenders don't like it, like I think I saw Jaden McDaniels last night or the other night complaining about it when he bumped him on a shot. But basketball is a contact game, and that's another reason why I like him, how physically he plays. He has eight free throw attempts at night, and I know everybody gets on him with, oh, you know, he's a free throw merchant, this and that. It's a skill. It's a skill issue. And again that's something else that I really like in the play for the playoffs. He also seems impervious to matchups. I don't know if there's a defender that is a good you know, like a good matchup for SGA, just so hard to guard, no matter what type of defender you are. Especially you get a glimpse of that against Minnesota. He has forty points and no answer form Nikhil Alexander Walker, no answer for him. Julius Randall. I'm saying all of this stuff, unfortunately to say that I'd still probably give the MVP to Nikola Jokic. I think right now, I think he's probably still my front runner, and it doesn't have anything to do with like the case or SGA's value. I have no problem if they give him the award. I honestly think it's a three horse race still between him, Jokic and Yannis I would still lean Jokic just because of his impact. I mentioned that he there are six players and that this is the tenth most efficient thirty point per game season ever. Above him on that list is Nikola Jokic. This season, he has the tied fifth highest true shooting percentage in the thirty point per game season, and the Nuggets are a wopping twenty nine points better per one hunder possessions with Jokic on the floor. So I just don't want to I don't want to make this like a negative. There's nothing negative that I can say about SGA's case. It's just that I think Jokic is the best player on the planet, and so that's why I would lean him. But he has a hell of a case, man, I.

Would go SGA right now. Jogic makes an unbelievable case too, And I do absolutely think that he's the best player on the planet, and I also think that Jannis is the second best player on the planet. But SGA is putting together a very classic elite MVP case, which is to say, he's playing at that bona fide top three level. But his team is also just so much better than the guys who are the top two players on the planet, like so much better and really at a historic pace right now they're twenty seven to five. That's compelling, and historically that has mattered in the MVP criteria. We've talked in recent years about not overvaluing oh, best guy on the best team, but this isn't just best guy on the best team, Logan. This is a guy who, as you mentioned, the bottom line numbers are thirty one, six and six on sixty four percent for shooting with real plus defense, but who has really to me jumped out as the front runner in the stretch in which chet Holmgren has been out because since Chen got hurt, this is twenty two games, Shay is averaging thirty three point six points per game on sixty six percent true shooting with three and a half stocks per game. The Thunder are nineteen and three in that stretch, and they're plus two point eighty with SGA on the floor in minus twenty four with him off the floor. And by the way, it's not just the raw offensive numbers and the stock numbers and the efficiency that's overwhelmingly impressive with SGA. The impact stats are also out of this world. Okay, see is sixteen points per one hundred possessions better with him on the floor, and they're a completely dominant team when he's on the floor, but a very average team when he's off the floor. And you have to give so much credit for this team's dominance to the fact that this is a historic defense up to this point in the year, But you also can't undersell how ridiculously great an offensive engine Sga has been and how he's been able to engineer great offensive results when he's on the floor with a lineup that is very oriented towards defense and it is often lacking inconsistent shot creation and three point shooting alongside him, he has such a tremendous burden on him and he's carried that unbelievably well. And I think you see just how singularly he's responsible for the success of this offense when you look at some of the lineups with him on the floor compared to how lineups with Jadab, who you consider their only other real creator on the floor without Sga, Because it's really an incredible difference. When Shay is out there alone. Without Jadab, the thunder have a one twenty two point four offensive rating that would be the best in basketball. When Jadab is out there without SGA, they have a one zho three point seven offensive rating that would be the worst in basketball. So he is doing so much heavy lifting, and we tend to think of him as like this exceptional scorer, right, But I think people can underestimate just how much defensive attention he demands, how efficient he is out of every single play type, isolation, pick and roll, his ability to work out of a post. It's on low volume, but he's been a ninety ninth percentile spot up player this year. He's just a truly incredible offensive engine who at the same time is one of the best rim protecting wings in steel generating wings in basketball. And he is carrying this team in the stretch without Chet. No team has ever won sixty five plus games without their second best player. I do believe Chet is their second best player, but if you think it's Jadab, that's fine. Nobody's ever done that without their third best player. That's what Okayse is on pace to do. Without Chet, They're on pace to be a sixty nine win team. So Jannis is incredible, but he's only played in twenty five games. That does matter, and the Bucks are a plus one net rating team when he plays like it's really hard to make an MVP case when you're talking about that level of unimpressive team success and Yokich, I see the case obviously. I think he's having the best offensive regular season we've ever seen. So yeah, that's compelling. And the team is way way better with him on the floor by an even wider margin than Shay, as crazy as his on off margin is. But Yokich's defense has been an issue. He has been clearly worse on that end of the floor. And again, when you are playing at the level Sja is at individually and you have this team success, and you have this sort of team success without overwhelming talent. Right coming into the year, we would have said, oh, the Thunder are no doubt one of the two most talented teams in basketball alongside the Boston Celtics. You lose chet Holmgrin and it's still a really good team. But would you think it's a nineteen and three team not if Shay wasn't playing at this level. So that's why he's my MVP right now.

Would go SGA right now. Jogic makes an unbelievable case too, And I do absolutely think that he's the best player on the planet, and I also think that Jannis is the second best player on the planet. But SGA is putting together a very classic elite MVP case, which is to say, he's playing at that bona fide top three level. But his team is also just so much better than the guys who are the top two players on the planet, like so much better and really at a historic pace right now they're twenty seven to five. That's compelling, and historically that has mattered in the MVP criteria. We've talked in recent years about not overvaluing oh, best guy on the best team, but this isn't just best guy on the best team, Logan. This is a guy who, as you mentioned, the bottom line numbers are thirty one, six and six on sixty four percent for shooting with real plus defense, but who has really to me jumped out as the front runner in the stretch in which chet Holmgren has been out because since Chen got hurt, this is twenty two games, Shay is averaging thirty three point six points per game on sixty six percent true shooting with three and a half stocks per game. The Thunder are nineteen and three in that stretch, and they're plus two point eighty with SGA on the floor in minus twenty four with him off the floor. And by the way, it's not just the raw offensive numbers and the stock numbers and the efficiency that's overwhelmingly impressive with SGA. The impact stats are also out of this world. Okay, see is sixteen points per one hundred possessions better with him on the floor, and they're a completely dominant team when he's on the floor, but a very average team when he's off the floor. And you have to give so much credit for this team's dominance to the fact that this is a historic defense up to this point in the year, But you also can't undersell how ridiculously great an offensive engine Sga has been and how he's been able to engineer great offensive results when he's on the floor with a lineup that is very oriented towards defense and it is often lacking inconsistent shot creation and three point shooting alongside him, he has such a tremendous burden on him and he's carried that unbelievably well. And I think you see just how singularly he's responsible for the success of this offense when you look at some of the lineups with him on the floor compared to how lineups with Jadab, who you consider their only other real creator on the floor without Sga, Because it's really an incredible difference. When Shay is out there alone. Without Jadab, the thunder have a one twenty two point four offensive rating that would be the best in basketball. When Jadab is out there without SGA, they have a one zho three point seven offensive rating that would be the worst in basketball. So he is doing so much heavy lifting, and we tend to think of him as like this exceptional scorer, right, But I think people can underestimate just how much defensive attention he demands, how efficient he is out of every single play type, isolation, pick and roll, his ability to work out of a post. It's on low volume, but he's been a ninety ninth percentile spot up player this year. He's just a truly incredible offensive engine who at the same time is one of the best rim protecting wings in steel generating wings in basketball. And he is carrying this team in the stretch without Chet. No team has ever won sixty five plus games without their second best player. I do believe Chet is their second best player, but if you think it's Jadab, that's fine. Nobody's ever done that without their third best player. That's what Okayse is on pace to do. Without Chet, They're on pace to be a sixty nine win team. So Jannis is incredible, but he's only played in twenty five games. That does matter, and the Bucks are a plus one net rating team when he plays like it's really hard to make an MVP case when you're talking about that level of unimpressive team success and Yokich, I see the case obviously. I think he's having the best offensive regular season we've ever seen. So yeah, that's compelling. And the team is way way better with him on the floor by an even wider margin than Shay, as crazy as his on off margin is. But Yokich's defense has been an issue. He has been clearly worse on that end of the floor. And again, when you are playing at the level Sja is at individually and you have this team success, and you have this sort of team success without overwhelming talent. Right coming into the year, we would have said, oh, the Thunder are no doubt one of the two most talented teams in basketball alongside the Boston Celtics. You lose chet Holmgrin and it's still a really good team. But would you think it's a nineteen and three team not if Shay wasn't playing at this level. So that's why he's my MVP right now.

Yeah, I understand the case. I don't want to undersell that point though, I mean the thunder team is awesome top to bottom. Like they lose chet, but I mean Isaiah Hartenstein is filled in that role perfectly, but they.

Yeah, I understand the case. I don't want to undersell that point though, I mean the thunder team is awesome top to bottom. Like they lose chet, but I mean Isaiah Hartenstein is filled in that role perfectly, but they.

Have a one oh four offensive rating. When she is off the floor, their offense falls apart. He's manufacturing everything.

Have a one oh four offensive rating. When she is off the floor, their offense falls apart. He's manufacturing everything.

Yeah, I mean, I don't disagree, but it's like the exact same thing with Jokic. I just have a Shay is a real great case, but I mean, I just don't want to hold it against him. That Like, if Jokic had a roster that was comparable, I feel like that the Nuggets would be dominant. I don't know, Like I don't want to take anything away from Shay. I just feel like if you take Jokic off the Nuggets, they they become the worst team maybe in the sport. They're winning twenty games. You take Shaye off, I feel like this might be like a five hundred team or something like that. That's just where I come down. I still don't feel like he's the best player on the planet, and I don't feel like he's having the best season. I think Jokic is having the best season of any player right now. The two way edges where I would hear a strong argument, because I do think there's a significant gap there. Positionally, you know, Jokic does bring value way more value is a rebounder, and he is a Some people I think can underrade him defense, but he's been bad on that end that year so this year, so I would hear I would hear a case. I just I think Jokic is having the better year and I think he's the better player. And that being said, if I had to take a guess, I think because of his case, because of voter fatigue, I think SGA, if he continues at this clip, is probably going to win it. And it's super impressive that they've done this without Chet. I don't I don't want to understand that point about it either, because it is impressive, Like Chet is this team's second best player on offense, and he's their best player on defense, so it is remarkable that did they played this well down him.

Yeah, I mean, I don't disagree, but it's like the exact same thing with Jokic. I just have a Shay is a real great case, but I mean, I just don't want to hold it against him. That Like, if Jokic had a roster that was comparable, I feel like that the Nuggets would be dominant. I don't know, Like I don't want to take anything away from Shay. I just feel like if you take Jokic off the Nuggets, they they become the worst team maybe in the sport. They're winning twenty games. You take Shaye off, I feel like this might be like a five hundred team or something like that. That's just where I come down. I still don't feel like he's the best player on the planet, and I don't feel like he's having the best season. I think Jokic is having the best season of any player right now. The two way edges where I would hear a strong argument, because I do think there's a significant gap there. Positionally, you know, Jokic does bring value way more value is a rebounder, and he is a Some people I think can underrade him defense, but he's been bad on that end that year so this year, so I would hear I would hear a case. I just I think Jokic is having the better year and I think he's the better player. And that being said, if I had to take a guess, I think because of his case, because of voter fatigue, I think SGA, if he continues at this clip, is probably going to win it. And it's super impressive that they've done this without Chet. I don't I don't want to understand that point about it either, because it is impressive, Like Chet is this team's second best player on offense, and he's their best player on defense, so it is remarkable that did they played this well down him.

I don't think that the MVP award is supposed to just go to the best player every year, right, That's never been how we do this. Otherwise Lebron would have significantly more MVP awards and Jokic won in twenty twenty two without overwhelming team success but if you look at the other candidates that year, well, the Nuggets were actually better when Yokic was on the floor than any of those other teams. And he's going up against Giannis with the fifty one win bucks and Embiid with the fifty one wins sixers, So at that point, it's like the gap in team success really isn't all that big. Jokic has been the best player on the planet. He deserves the award. Last year, Jokic led a legitimately elite team, right, But historically this is an award that is more about ceiling raising than it is about floor raising, and Shay is doing an out of this world ceiling raising job, but also like a really incredible floor raising job, because you look at what happens to this offense when he's off the floor, and it's really really shocking. And I just don't know if Sga gets enough credit for how special he is, and I don't know if enough people appreciate that, Like he's one of the defining players of this generation. And we ranked our top ten scorers, I had him above Luca. A lot of people are like, I just don't see the case. Well, the case is he has as high of a scoring floor as anybody we've seen in a long time in this league, and he is able to dominate every area on the floor. He is the most effective driving guard in basketball. He is the best changing pace a lot along with Luca, but his ability to actually shift into that high gear obviously surpasses Luca. He's got the best body control of any guard in the sport today. He's got the best balance. He has this completely artistic arsenal as a scorer, with his footwork and his fakes and his ability to spin and dominate you from the mid range. He's fifty four percent from mid range, he's over fifty percent in the paint outside the restricted area, and now he's added the pull up three dimension. I just think he's a one of a kind scorer and a one of a kind basketball player. And I've always been a huge defender of how I thought his game would scale to the playoffs because of how he is so versatile as an on ball scorer and does dominate that intermediate area in a way that is legitimately efficient, which is so valuable. And there are people who try to downplay SGA still and say, oh, he's got one playoff series win under his belt. What more did you want to see from him against the Mavericks? I mean, what more do you want to see from him to convince you that this dude is a generational scorer.

I don't think that the MVP award is supposed to just go to the best player every year, right, That's never been how we do this. Otherwise Lebron would have significantly more MVP awards and Jokic won in twenty twenty two without overwhelming team success but if you look at the other candidates that year, well, the Nuggets were actually better when Yokic was on the floor than any of those other teams. And he's going up against Giannis with the fifty one win bucks and Embiid with the fifty one wins sixers, So at that point, it's like the gap in team success really isn't all that big. Jokic has been the best player on the planet. He deserves the award. Last year, Jokic led a legitimately elite team, right, But historically this is an award that is more about ceiling raising than it is about floor raising, and Shay is doing an out of this world ceiling raising job, but also like a really incredible floor raising job, because you look at what happens to this offense when he's off the floor, and it's really really shocking. And I just don't know if Sga gets enough credit for how special he is, and I don't know if enough people appreciate that, Like he's one of the defining players of this generation. And we ranked our top ten scorers, I had him above Luca. A lot of people are like, I just don't see the case. Well, the case is he has as high of a scoring floor as anybody we've seen in a long time in this league, and he is able to dominate every area on the floor. He is the most effective driving guard in basketball. He is the best changing pace a lot along with Luca, but his ability to actually shift into that high gear obviously surpasses Luca. He's got the best body control of any guard in the sport today. He's got the best balance. He has this completely artistic arsenal as a scorer, with his footwork and his fakes and his ability to spin and dominate you from the mid range. He's fifty four percent from mid range, he's over fifty percent in the paint outside the restricted area, and now he's added the pull up three dimension. I just think he's a one of a kind scorer and a one of a kind basketball player. And I've always been a huge defender of how I thought his game would scale to the playoffs because of how he is so versatile as an on ball scorer and does dominate that intermediate area in a way that is legitimately efficient, which is so valuable. And there are people who try to downplay SGA still and say, oh, he's got one playoff series win under his belt. What more did you want to see from him against the Mavericks? I mean, what more do you want to see from him to convince you that this dude is a generational scorer.

I mean, it just wasn't his fault at all, like in the series. You know, like everything that they criticized about SGA in that series was either schematic or it was just you know, like, oh, SGA's falling asleep on his man. They're deliberately sending doubles and he was the funniest I mean, that was really dumb. And then them getting on him for not winning the series. It's like, dude, they're sending doubles in him every possession and he's making the right read.

I mean, it just wasn't his fault at all, like in the series. You know, like everything that they criticized about SGA in that series was either schematic or it was just you know, like, oh, SGA's falling asleep on his man. They're deliberately sending doubles and he was the funniest I mean, that was really dumb. And then them getting on him for not winning the series. It's like, dude, they're sending doubles in him every possession and he's making the right read.

They're just very clearly.

They're just very clearly.

I agree. And I also think he can kind of get underrated on how good of a playmaker he is too, Like he's one of the best scorers on the planet. I think he's an all time special, all time great scorer. Clearly the best guard in the league. But you were talking about earlier the little advantages he creates, like when he's driving and the defender on the perimeter drops by two steps, SGA can make that pass. It's a real simple pass. He makes it, they capitalize, And I really think that Hartenstein has opened up another element for him out of the pick and roll, with like a really reliable role target who can make decisions. Like he's special. He is so far way I think the best guard in basketball right now. Man, I don't think it's close. I got high on Aunt and I was kind of hoping this and it's just nowhere near is polished. I think Ant can get there one day, But there's so much polished with that. He's in so many ways, and I don't want this to just be a glaze fest. But like SGA is like a perfect basketball player, Like I literally don't know. I don't know what else Like SGA can new to get better, man, Like he's perfect.

I agree. And I also think he can kind of get underrated on how good of a playmaker he is too, Like he's one of the best scorers on the planet. I think he's an all time special, all time great scorer. Clearly the best guard in the league. But you were talking about earlier the little advantages he creates, like when he's driving and the defender on the perimeter drops by two steps, SGA can make that pass. It's a real simple pass. He makes it, they capitalize, And I really think that Hartenstein has opened up another element for him out of the pick and roll, with like a really reliable role target who can make decisions. Like he's special. He is so far way I think the best guard in basketball right now. Man, I don't think it's close. I got high on Aunt and I was kind of hoping this and it's just nowhere near is polished. I think Ant can get there one day, But there's so much polished with that. He's in so many ways, and I don't want this to just be a glaze fest. But like SGA is like a perfect basketball player, Like I literally don't know. I don't know what else Like SGA can new to get better, man, Like he's perfect.

Yeah, he's obviously way clear of Van. You were on one when you said that they were even in the same conversation. He's in Luca Conversations. That's the conversation he's been in. I mean, I've been adamant that SGA is a top four.

Yeah, he's obviously way clear of Van. You were on one when you said that they were even in the same conversation. He's in Luca Conversations. That's the conversation he's been in. I mean, I've been adamant that SGA is a top four.

I mean, I think there's a real I think there's a real conversation that could be had there with there's a very real with Luca's availability, with SGA's defense, Like there's a lot of aspects because I think Luca, Luca's an offensive engine that it's all time special. But when you add in factors like that again, like availability, like defense, like mentality, I think there's something there. I think it's closer than a lot. Well, and like you always talk about, Luca has such a rabid fan base that that anytime you poke, you know, or you say anything negative about Luca, you kind of have people coming at you. But it's very, very close, And I wouldn't fault anybody if they if they have SGA for MVP, if they think SGA is the best player on the planet, it's not as.

I mean, I think there's a real I think there's a real conversation that could be had there with there's a very real with Luca's availability, with SGA's defense, Like there's a lot of aspects because I think Luca, Luca's an offensive engine that it's all time special. But when you add in factors like that again, like availability, like defense, like mentality, I think there's something there. I think it's closer than a lot. Well, and like you always talk about, Luca has such a rabid fan base that that anytime you poke, you know, or you say anything negative about Luca, you kind of have people coming at you. But it's very, very close, And I wouldn't fault anybody if they if they have SGA for MVP, if they think SGA is the best player on the planet, it's not as.

Well, that's different. Best player on the planet is different than better than Luca. Best player on the planet is better than Yoka Geniannis. And I still think that's a really really I'm just saying possible case to make.

Well, that's different. Best player on the planet is different than better than Luca. Best player on the planet is better than Yoka Geniannis. And I still think that's a really really I'm just saying possible case to make.

They're top four absolutely for anybody that's kind of in there. I feel like you could make the argument like SGA doesn't have any holes in his game offense or defense.

They're top four absolutely for anybody that's kind of in there. I feel like you could make the argument like SGA doesn't have any holes in his game offense or defense.

He's a monster. And I can't believe that the free throw merchion thing exists at all. I don't know how you can lodge that against somebody who shoots fifty three percent from the field, like he's an out of this world shot maker. He is not reliant on getting the line. He's just also really good at getting to the line, which makes him an even more sensational score and an incredibly efficient score. So he would be MIAMV right now. I'm taking an incredible, incredible case. Well, logan, I mentioned the Thunderer off to this historic start. They're twenty seven and five. They're not the best team in the NBA by record, though, That is the Cleveland Cavaliers, who are twenty nine to four. And I tweeted out today if these teams were to hold their current pace right just by current winning percentage, the best winning percentage we've seen in NBA history is the twenty sixteen Warriors, then the current Calves, then the nineteen ninety six Bulls, then the current Thunder And I don't know if we have given enough shine. Well I hope that we have, but I'm speaking more with the royal we here the general NBA community to how insane it is that these two teams have been that dominant. So I want to ask Logan, do you think the Calves have forced their way into that top tier that we have been consistent about since before the year. Is Boston and OKC above everybody else. Are the Calves now in that group?

He's a monster. And I can't believe that the free throw merchion thing exists at all. I don't know how you can lodge that against somebody who shoots fifty three percent from the field, like he's an out of this world shot maker. He is not reliant on getting the line. He's just also really good at getting to the line, which makes him an even more sensational score and an incredibly efficient score. So he would be MIAMV right now. I'm taking an incredible, incredible case. Well, logan, I mentioned the Thunderer off to this historic start. They're twenty seven and five. They're not the best team in the NBA by record, though, That is the Cleveland Cavaliers, who are twenty nine to four. And I tweeted out today if these teams were to hold their current pace right just by current winning percentage, the best winning percentage we've seen in NBA history is the twenty sixteen Warriors, then the current Calves, then the nineteen ninety six Bulls, then the current Thunder And I don't know if we have given enough shine. Well I hope that we have, but I'm speaking more with the royal we here the general NBA community to how insane it is that these two teams have been that dominant. So I want to ask Logan, do you think the Calves have forced their way into that top tier that we have been consistent about since before the year. Is Boston and OKC above everybody else. Are the Calves now in that group?

Yeah, I think so. I think they are their number one an offensive rating right now, they're tied eighth in defensive rating, they're number two in net rating. And the biggest reason for this is because of Darius Garland at Evan Mobley. You know, I don't want to take any shine away from Donovan Mitchell and Jared Allen because they are as important of this equation as those two guys, and they've been stellar as they have been over the past few years. But I'm fully bought back in on Darius Garland. You know, he had a real bad year last season. Broken jaw, had surgery, he was on a liquid diet, loses twelve pounds. He says in interviews too, he lost his joy for basketball. On top all of that, he's dealing with ankle and back injuries, and he fell short in the playoffs. He gave us sixteen points per game and six assists per game on fifty two percent true shooting. He just wasn't good enough, and they were probably never gonna win that series. You know, they're they're down Jared Allen in that one. They weren't gonna do any real damage. But a part of that was because Garland was disappointing, and he's bounced back in a big way. He's at twenty one to three and seven than on nearly sixty three percent true shooting. He's the tenth most efficient twenty point per game scorer in the NBA right now, and he's a wizard with the basketball. This game against LA was insane. Some of the passes he's doing, the dump offs around the rim, that one wrap around pass to Allen, like he is a special playmaker. And I really thought the most impressive thing to me was how much defensive attention he was drawing. Dude, he caught Anthony Davis anytime he was asleep ball watching. Garland was making him pay. And he's so good at that, Like he's a blur the speed, the playmaking. And now that you know, I think Garland is probably still a little susceptible to maybe having down games in the playoffs, just because I think he is relying on pull up shooting and a lot of the three balls. So I think there's a little bit of inherent volatility with his game. But I think he's back to where he you know, where you would have expected him to be after the All Star season, because he was crescendoing to this point where you're going, all right, well, this guy's clearly going to be a top ten point guard in basketball, and then he plateaued last year with all the stuff. I really think he's back there, if not in the top ten, close to that level. And it's Evan Mobley. Evan Mobley's taken a real leave. We've talked about this a million times on this show, because you are Evan Mobley's biggest supporter. But true, you got to give him credit. Eighteen nine and three this season, sixty five percent true shooting over a steal in a block per game. And the biggest thing is what he's doing offensively, handling, initiating, bringing the ball up in transition. But he's just more aggressive this year, and that's the thing that was always been a part of the Evan Mobley experiences, him not imposing himself enough.

Yeah, I think so. I think they are their number one an offensive rating right now, they're tied eighth in defensive rating, they're number two in net rating. And the biggest reason for this is because of Darius Garland at Evan Mobley. You know, I don't want to take any shine away from Donovan Mitchell and Jared Allen because they are as important of this equation as those two guys, and they've been stellar as they have been over the past few years. But I'm fully bought back in on Darius Garland. You know, he had a real bad year last season. Broken jaw, had surgery, he was on a liquid diet, loses twelve pounds. He says in interviews too, he lost his joy for basketball. On top all of that, he's dealing with ankle and back injuries, and he fell short in the playoffs. He gave us sixteen points per game and six assists per game on fifty two percent true shooting. He just wasn't good enough, and they were probably never gonna win that series. You know, they're they're down Jared Allen in that one. They weren't gonna do any real damage. But a part of that was because Garland was disappointing, and he's bounced back in a big way. He's at twenty one to three and seven than on nearly sixty three percent true shooting. He's the tenth most efficient twenty point per game scorer in the NBA right now, and he's a wizard with the basketball. This game against LA was insane. Some of the passes he's doing, the dump offs around the rim, that one wrap around pass to Allen, like he is a special playmaker. And I really thought the most impressive thing to me was how much defensive attention he was drawing. Dude, he caught Anthony Davis anytime he was asleep ball watching. Garland was making him pay. And he's so good at that, Like he's a blur the speed, the playmaking. And now that you know, I think Garland is probably still a little susceptible to maybe having down games in the playoffs, just because I think he is relying on pull up shooting and a lot of the three balls. So I think there's a little bit of inherent volatility with his game. But I think he's back to where he you know, where you would have expected him to be after the All Star season, because he was crescendoing to this point where you're going, all right, well, this guy's clearly going to be a top ten point guard in basketball, and then he plateaued last year with all the stuff. I really think he's back there, if not in the top ten, close to that level. And it's Evan Mobley. Evan Mobley's taken a real leave. We've talked about this a million times on this show, because you are Evan Mobley's biggest supporter. But true, you got to give him credit. Eighteen nine and three this season, sixty five percent true shooting over a steal in a block per game. And the biggest thing is what he's doing offensively, handling, initiating, bringing the ball up in transition. But he's just more aggressive this year, and that's the thing that was always been a part of the Evan Mobley experiences, him not imposing himself enough.

Dude.

Dude.

This year, I just better mismatch attacking. He's got more of a postbag, and don't get me wrong, he's not elajah On on the low block, but he's got improved footwork and touch, and he's just a more willing and efficient shooter. He's over forty percent from deep this year. Obviously not on a ton of attempts a game, but he's weaponizing his value more off ball two. I think you see in games he's moving to open space. He's you have to respect him a little more as a shooter, and he's gonna make you pay if you leave him wide open. On top of those two guys in the Big four, the team has real quality depth. They're number one and three point percentage right now. Max Struce has comeback and has been great. Dean Wade is really solid on both ends. Kris LeVert Ti, Jerome George and Yang Sam Merril. All these guys can give you real minutes. The only area where I would like to see Cleveland maybe make a move on the margin would be to get another reliable center in this rotation, just because I feel like that's the one position where I could see them improving in depth. But outside of that, I really think this is a complete team. There's still three for me Carson and I don't know if you disagree, but the only reason is when I think you're looking at a hypothetical playoff matchup between these teams, I think Oklahoma City and Boston have an ideal defense to go up against Cleveland with a Derek White, with a Drew Holliday, Jaylen Brown. Those are guys that I think are ideal when matched up against a Garland or a Donovan Mitchell, and they can potentially neutralize them in ways that not a lot of teams. They just don't have that kind of defensive personnel that you need to slow down Cleveland. Where I look at Boston and I look at Oklahoma City and I see a lot of perimeter hounds where I think they match up really well with Cleveland. That being said, though I don't think there's a gap. I think Cleveland's right there with both of those teams for all of what I've mentioned. The biggest reason to me, though, is the leap that we've seen from Garland and from Evan Mobley, and they're in that top tier.

This year, I just better mismatch attacking. He's got more of a postbag, and don't get me wrong, he's not elajah On on the low block, but he's got improved footwork and touch, and he's just a more willing and efficient shooter. He's over forty percent from deep this year. Obviously not on a ton of attempts a game, but he's weaponizing his value more off ball two. I think you see in games he's moving to open space. He's you have to respect him a little more as a shooter, and he's gonna make you pay if you leave him wide open. On top of those two guys in the Big four, the team has real quality depth. They're number one and three point percentage right now. Max Struce has comeback and has been great. Dean Wade is really solid on both ends. Kris LeVert Ti, Jerome George and Yang Sam Merril. All these guys can give you real minutes. The only area where I would like to see Cleveland maybe make a move on the margin would be to get another reliable center in this rotation, just because I feel like that's the one position where I could see them improving in depth. But outside of that, I really think this is a complete team. There's still three for me Carson and I don't know if you disagree, but the only reason is when I think you're looking at a hypothetical playoff matchup between these teams, I think Oklahoma City and Boston have an ideal defense to go up against Cleveland with a Derek White, with a Drew Holliday, Jaylen Brown. Those are guys that I think are ideal when matched up against a Garland or a Donovan Mitchell, and they can potentially neutralize them in ways that not a lot of teams. They just don't have that kind of defensive personnel that you need to slow down Cleveland. Where I look at Boston and I look at Oklahoma City and I see a lot of perimeter hounds where I think they match up really well with Cleveland. That being said, though I don't think there's a gap. I think Cleveland's right there with both of those teams for all of what I've mentioned. The biggest reason to me, though, is the leap that we've seen from Garland and from Evan Mobley, and they're in that top tier.

They are in that top tier for me. They are definitely still number three though, and I do think that there's a gap between Boston and I think that you touched on the reason why at the end. Well, first of all, it is how well equipped Boston and Okase are to guard a team like Cleveland, right because they just have these ridiculously athletic backcourts and just so many perimeter defenders that they can send at these ball handlers and Cleveland's offense, even though they have had phenomenal spot up shooting, and even though Mobley has taken a big leap offensively, it has to be an All Star this year because he's just been so damn good. Nevertheless, they are very reliant on Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland creating a ton of offense for them, So you have the difficulty of facing those elite elite defenses who are very specifically built to basically give hell to your best players. But to me, the bigger issue with Cleveland and they really don't have issues. We're just talking about when you're in these like elite elite conversations, Boston and OKC are impervious defenses in my opinion. They are so versatile, they have so many rangy athletic perimeter players, but they also have high end rim protection. They just check every box Cleveland has some weak points defensively. You can attack Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland in a way you can't attack anybody on Boston's roster, and you can't attack anybody on Okac's roster, and specifically, Boston is the most relentless team in basketball when it comes to attacking those weak points. And there are other guys in the rotation right as Sam Merrill. Some of these offensively slanted players for Cleveland are just bigger question marks defensively than you see with Boston and Oka. See now, I would hear a case that the confidence you have in Cleveland's offense offsets the confidence edge that you have in Okac's defense, because OKC does have their offensive issues as we just discussed. I mean, Shay has a really crazy burden on him. But I do think that that changes when chet Holmgren is out there on the floor with how aggressive he was this year, with how assert if he was as a driver. He's just such an offensive weapon in so many different ways that he does make me a good bit more confident in Okac's offense, and he makes their defense even better. Like again, the fact that they're nineteen and three without him is just mind boggling to me. But Cleveland's offense, especially when they're getting shooting like this, it's just phenomenal. And there's no question Garland is back in the biggest way. I mean, he's way better than he's ever been before. And it's just an incredible thing to have forty eight minutes if you want it of elite guard play. Like when Garland is on the floor alone without Donovan Mitchell, the Cavs have a one to twenty five offensive rating, and when Mitchell is out there alone without Garland, they have a one eighteen offensive rating, which is still phenomenal. Garland is a ninety first percentile pick and roll creator, Mitchell is an eighty six percentile pick and roll creator. Like that's such a rare thing to have two dudes who can put the offense on their backs like that. And at the same time, as we talked about, they get forty eight minutes of awesome big play between Mobley and Allen and dudes who can really anchor your defense at a high level. And by the way, as much as we've talked about Garland and Mobley's improvement, which has been massive in both cases, I think Jared Allen's improvement has gone a little bit on the low block. I mean, his touch is just absurd.

They are in that top tier for me. They are definitely still number three though, and I do think that there's a gap between Boston and I think that you touched on the reason why at the end. Well, first of all, it is how well equipped Boston and Okase are to guard a team like Cleveland, right because they just have these ridiculously athletic backcourts and just so many perimeter defenders that they can send at these ball handlers and Cleveland's offense, even though they have had phenomenal spot up shooting, and even though Mobley has taken a big leap offensively, it has to be an All Star this year because he's just been so damn good. Nevertheless, they are very reliant on Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland creating a ton of offense for them, So you have the difficulty of facing those elite elite defenses who are very specifically built to basically give hell to your best players. But to me, the bigger issue with Cleveland and they really don't have issues. We're just talking about when you're in these like elite elite conversations, Boston and OKC are impervious defenses in my opinion. They are so versatile, they have so many rangy athletic perimeter players, but they also have high end rim protection. They just check every box Cleveland has some weak points defensively. You can attack Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland in a way you can't attack anybody on Boston's roster, and you can't attack anybody on Okac's roster, and specifically, Boston is the most relentless team in basketball when it comes to attacking those weak points. And there are other guys in the rotation right as Sam Merrill. Some of these offensively slanted players for Cleveland are just bigger question marks defensively than you see with Boston and Oka. See now, I would hear a case that the confidence you have in Cleveland's offense offsets the confidence edge that you have in Okac's defense, because OKC does have their offensive issues as we just discussed. I mean, Shay has a really crazy burden on him. But I do think that that changes when chet Holmgren is out there on the floor with how aggressive he was this year, with how assert if he was as a driver. He's just such an offensive weapon in so many different ways that he does make me a good bit more confident in Okac's offense, and he makes their defense even better. Like again, the fact that they're nineteen and three without him is just mind boggling to me. But Cleveland's offense, especially when they're getting shooting like this, it's just phenomenal. And there's no question Garland is back in the biggest way. I mean, he's way better than he's ever been before. And it's just an incredible thing to have forty eight minutes if you want it of elite guard play. Like when Garland is on the floor alone without Donovan Mitchell, the Cavs have a one to twenty five offensive rating, and when Mitchell is out there alone without Garland, they have a one eighteen offensive rating, which is still phenomenal. Garland is a ninety first percentile pick and roll creator, Mitchell is an eighty six percentile pick and roll creator. Like that's such a rare thing to have two dudes who can put the offense on their backs like that. And at the same time, as we talked about, they get forty eight minutes of awesome big play between Mobley and Allen and dudes who can really anchor your defense at a high level. And by the way, as much as we've talked about Garland and Mobley's improvement, which has been massive in both cases, I think Jared Allen's improvement has gone a little bit on the low block. I mean, his touch is just absurd.

He's actually got a bag now.

He's actually got a bag now.

Yeah, And he's been consistently improving in terms of his touch and was quite good there last year. But the leap this year has been to just flat out elite. Like he shoots sixty four percent in the paint outside the restricted area on legitimate volume. That's a jokic number. Last year he was just over fifty percent in that range, which is a good number, but sixty four percent is just absurd. So he's been so so efficient as a scorer. Like I said, I don't have concerns about Cleveland. I just think they're not as great as healthy OKC in Boston, and I think you could raise some question about them having really reliable wing play in these sort of high stakes matchups. Now. I like Max Strus, I like Dean Wade. I think those are the two guys who give you the best combination of defense and the three point shooting, which is what you're looking for from whoever's in that respot. But again, I do think there are some other guys who are going to be asked to play big minutes who maybe could be targeted defensively or in Isaaco Korro would be more inconsistent offensively. I like their group of wings, but we're talking about okcs group of wings, and we're talking about Boston's group of wings and perimeter players. So I do still prefer those two teams, but Cleveland is way clear of everybody else. New York would be next for me, and I think New York is awesome offensively. I think they're an absolute jugger not but the Cavs offense is also going to be a nightmare for anybody to deal with, with this sort of creation from the guards, with this sort of three point shooting, and with this version of Mobiley and Allen being a really good offensive player. And then I just think Cleveland is a much better defensive team, although maybe not as great defensively as I would have thought before the year, but they've more than outgained that with how amazing they've been offensively. It's just like coming into the year, I would have thought that Cleveland would be a better defensive team than offensive team, and it's turned out to be the opposite. There's still a good defense, but they're just an out of this world offense.

Yeah, And he's been consistently improving in terms of his touch and was quite good there last year. But the leap this year has been to just flat out elite. Like he shoots sixty four percent in the paint outside the restricted area on legitimate volume. That's a jokic number. Last year he was just over fifty percent in that range, which is a good number, but sixty four percent is just absurd. So he's been so so efficient as a scorer. Like I said, I don't have concerns about Cleveland. I just think they're not as great as healthy OKC in Boston, and I think you could raise some question about them having really reliable wing play in these sort of high stakes matchups. Now. I like Max Strus, I like Dean Wade. I think those are the two guys who give you the best combination of defense and the three point shooting, which is what you're looking for from whoever's in that respot. But again, I do think there are some other guys who are going to be asked to play big minutes who maybe could be targeted defensively or in Isaaco Korro would be more inconsistent offensively. I like their group of wings, but we're talking about okcs group of wings, and we're talking about Boston's group of wings and perimeter players. So I do still prefer those two teams, but Cleveland is way clear of everybody else. New York would be next for me, and I think New York is awesome offensively. I think they're an absolute jugger not but the Cavs offense is also going to be a nightmare for anybody to deal with, with this sort of creation from the guards, with this sort of three point shooting, and with this version of Mobiley and Allen being a really good offensive player. And then I just think Cleveland is a much better defensive team, although maybe not as great defensively as I would have thought before the year, but they've more than outgained that with how amazing they've been offensively. It's just like coming into the year, I would have thought that Cleveland would be a better defensive team than offensive team, and it's turned out to be the opposite. There's still a good defense, but they're just an out of this world offense.

Yeah, they're just not gonna fold up in the playoffs the way we've we've maybe been accustomed to Cleveland these last couple of years. I think Cleveland's gonna go toe to toe with whoever they play, and you know, make it up an awesome series and I wouldn't put it past them winning.

Yeah, they're just not gonna fold up in the playoffs the way we've we've maybe been accustomed to Cleveland these last couple of years. I think Cleveland's gonna go toe to toe with whoever they play, and you know, make it up an awesome series and I wouldn't put it past them winning.

But in these.

But in these.

Cream of the crop conversations that we're getting at, I do think that's the distinction. I think that they have those other two teams that we mentioned, Boston and OKC matchup really well with them. And then, like you said, I think the other thing is that Garland and Mitchell were probably the most significant defensive liabilities they could get picked on in those scenarios. But yeah, I don't feel like this is too flawed to work or anything like that. I think Cleveland's figured it out and I think they're here to stay. I really think they've got a good thing going. Man.

Cream of the crop conversations that we're getting at, I do think that's the distinction. I think that they have those other two teams that we mentioned, Boston and OKC matchup really well with them. And then, like you said, I think the other thing is that Garland and Mitchell were probably the most significant defensive liabilities they could get picked on in those scenarios. But yeah, I don't feel like this is too flawed to work or anything like that. I think Cleveland's figured it out and I think they're here to stay. I really think they've got a good thing going. Man.

They can win the title. They can one hundred percent win the title. If you get Boston with injuries like I think, again, Boston at full strength with kp out, there is clear of Cleveland. I think that that's just an incredible, incredible basketball team. But if they don't have him, or if there's an injury to another key player, like Cleveland has as good a chance as anybody to beat them. Well, I still think Okay See matches up a good bit better in terms of how they can defend Boston, But I also think that Cleveland's offense is clearly better. And this version of Garland's not going anywhere, This version of Mobley is not going anywhere. And Donovan Mitchell can look just about anybody in the eyes in any given series, and if he's really committed to getting downhill and the pull up jumper is falling, he can outplay a whole lot of high level dudes offensively. And I do think that includes potentially at least Jason Tatum. And it's really hard to outplay Shay in an offensive series, but I think that Mitchell has the ceiling to be able to do that. So they check a ton of boxes, and I think that they belong in that top tier. You know who checks zero boxes right now, Logan the Phoenix Suns. I guess they check the box of just having terrible vibes and being bad at basketball. They've lost six of their last seven. They're now fifteen and seventeen. Are we at the point Logan where you think the Suns should just blow it up, should just reboot everything.

They can win the title. They can one hundred percent win the title. If you get Boston with injuries like I think, again, Boston at full strength with kp out, there is clear of Cleveland. I think that that's just an incredible, incredible basketball team. But if they don't have him, or if there's an injury to another key player, like Cleveland has as good a chance as anybody to beat them. Well, I still think Okay See matches up a good bit better in terms of how they can defend Boston, But I also think that Cleveland's offense is clearly better. And this version of Garland's not going anywhere, This version of Mobley is not going anywhere. And Donovan Mitchell can look just about anybody in the eyes in any given series, and if he's really committed to getting downhill and the pull up jumper is falling, he can outplay a whole lot of high level dudes offensively. And I do think that includes potentially at least Jason Tatum. And it's really hard to outplay Shay in an offensive series, but I think that Mitchell has the ceiling to be able to do that. So they check a ton of boxes, and I think that they belong in that top tier. You know who checks zero boxes right now, Logan the Phoenix Suns. I guess they check the box of just having terrible vibes and being bad at basketball. They've lost six of their last seven. They're now fifteen and seventeen. Are we at the point Logan where you think the Suns should just blow it up, should just reboot everything.

I don't really know what they do. There's not an easy answer for Phoenix. I My initial thought is, I think you just have to ride this out and like continue pivoting, right. I mean, they've got KD through twenty twenty six, they've got Beal through twenty twenty six, so like they've got these guys in your contract. My thing is for all of what you got or gave up to acquire KD. You know, I guess there's an argument to be made that you try to just recoup some assets Beal. I don't know a team that would want Bradley Beal just on this contract and how it would handicap the rest of your roster. So my answer would just be making moves on the margins. If you can dump NRK, dump honestly all these big money guys, and I hate doing it because they're good role players for Phoenix. I would trade NRK, I would trade Alan, I would trade a knee, I trade a Kogie, like basically everybody that's not on a minimum deal, just so you can have maximum cap flexibility. But I mean, you're you're right, Like, there's just no there's no way Phoenix pivots out of this enough for us to look at this team and go, oh yeah, they're like real deal contenders. They'd have to get a to me, the piece is a game changing defensive big like a guy that can be like basically almost a one man defense. And I don't think that guy exists where you can just pluck him from somewhere and go, oh yeah, you know, like the ideal guy is Anthony Davis. What the hell are you giving up to go and get Anthony Davis? You know, like they're just these guys don't grow on trees, and unfortunately you're in cap hell. So maybe that is the answer. Dude, I just don't know how you're gonna how you could justify all that you gave up to acquire these guys. You're gonna lose, You're gonna lose assets on this investment. So what's an answer, man? Or are you at that point with them just throw the stick of dynamite in and see what happens.

I don't really know what they do. There's not an easy answer for Phoenix. I My initial thought is, I think you just have to ride this out and like continue pivoting, right. I mean, they've got KD through twenty twenty six, they've got Beal through twenty twenty six, so like they've got these guys in your contract. My thing is for all of what you got or gave up to acquire KD. You know, I guess there's an argument to be made that you try to just recoup some assets Beal. I don't know a team that would want Bradley Beal just on this contract and how it would handicap the rest of your roster. So my answer would just be making moves on the margins. If you can dump NRK, dump honestly all these big money guys, and I hate doing it because they're good role players for Phoenix. I would trade NRK, I would trade Alan, I would trade a knee, I trade a Kogie, like basically everybody that's not on a minimum deal, just so you can have maximum cap flexibility. But I mean, you're you're right, Like, there's just no there's no way Phoenix pivots out of this enough for us to look at this team and go, oh yeah, they're like real deal contenders. They'd have to get a to me, the piece is a game changing defensive big like a guy that can be like basically almost a one man defense. And I don't think that guy exists where you can just pluck him from somewhere and go, oh yeah, you know, like the ideal guy is Anthony Davis. What the hell are you giving up to go and get Anthony Davis? You know, like they're just these guys don't grow on trees, and unfortunately you're in cap hell. So maybe that is the answer. Dude, I just don't know how you're gonna how you could justify all that you gave up to acquire these guys. You're gonna lose, You're gonna lose assets on this investment. So what's an answer, man? Or are you at that point with them just throw the stick of dynamite in and see what happens.

I think they should blow it up. And I feel like that's been my take big picture for more than a year. It's just they're not gonna do it. Matt Ishbie is foolishly, I think, maybe not still, but publicly at least convinced that this is a team that can do something serious and they just can't. They are fourteen and eight when Katie plays this year, but a lot of that was just he was grinding out some clutch wins, Like they are a completely average team with Katie on the floor. They're a zero net rating team with him on the floor, and then they're way worse without him. And since they're eight and one start, they're twenty sixth in the defensive rating, Like this is just an abominable defense. And that's no surprise when you look at this roster construction. And I was hopeful early in the year Logan that the Suns had improved, because before the year I thought, Okay, this is gonna be a terrible team defense, right. I don't know why people are so high on the Tias Jones move. It's insane to me to think that you would be able to start Tias Jones and Bradley Beal and Yusif Nurkic and not have a catastrophically bad defense, and that is what's happened. But Ryan Done. I looked at it and I said, this guy's an awesome defender. Roys O'Neil, good defender, playing well offensively, And I was like, all right, if they play more of these lineups, maybe this is a team that can win a playoff series. But look where we are, man, They're still trotting out the same starting five. And I understand Ryan Dunn is not a good offensive player, but he gets eighteen minutes a night. Royce O'Neil only gets twenty three minutes a night, which to me is more egregious because he legitimately has been shooting the shit out of the ball this year. And who are their three worst on off offenders? Logan, Who are the three guys in the rotation with the worst on off splits. It's Bradley Beal, It's Tias Jones, and it's Usif Nurkic. When those three share the floor, the Phoenix Suns have a one oh five point five offensive rating, abysmal, a one to twenty three point three d defensive rating worst in the league, in a negative eighteen net rating. And those are the three players you are starting alongside Kevin Durant and Devin Booker. They're just doing such a disservice to those two. And I know that book hasn't had his best year at all. It's been a rough year for him, but it's just an embarrassment. The center situation has been horrible. Nurk is not a good basketball player. He is a terrible defensive player, and I would say that he is a bad offensive player. He's like the rare guy who actually sucks but gets twenty five plus minutes a night and starts every game for a team that's trying to win. And somehow you promised starting spots to both Tyas Jones and Bradley Beal, these two small guards who are really going to struggle to defend. And everybody thought that what the Suns needed was a pure point guard for some reason, because we just romanticize that idea. And it's like, no, that's not what they need. What they need is advantage creators. What they need is somebody who can actually get to the rim. They are still by far life in restricted area field goals made. What they need is more volume three point shooting. What they need is more big athletes who can defend, and instead they go out and they say, tis, we're bringing you in, and we promise that we're gonna start you no matter what. You just can't overcome playing a lineup that is this bad defensively, that is this bad in terms of fit because you're so small and you're so unathletic around Katie and Book. And they have actually played better when they have Book Katie in one of their actual defensive wings on the floor, like way way better, logan, you're not gonna believe these numbers. With Book, Katie and roys'neo on the floor. The Suns have a plus twenty net rating in a one oh one defensive rating with Book, Katie and Ryan Dunn. To be fair, this is only sixty six minutes, it's a very small sample, but they have a plus seventeen net rating in a one hundred defensive rating. So that is clearly when they're at their best, when they're nastier, when they're more athletic, when they're bigger, when they're more defensively oriented. But no changes have been What they should clearly do is send Tias Jones to the bench start Royce O'Neill. Do I think they will do that? No, And at this point, even the ceiling you would have if you did that doesn't justify holding onto this thing in my opinion, because that ceiling is still like, all right, then maybe we can win a playoff series, but our center situation still sucks, and like we're still playing bad basketball players too much. And as we've been saying, like since it became clear that this just was not a team they could contend and that had no path to opening up a contending window again, and everybody rags on the Bio trade, which like obviously did not work out, but as I always say, they were basically screwed from the moment that CP three regressed. Because he was on a big contract, there was no path to them recouping like multiple really good role players who would have fit.