The volume. No, Oh my god, how could he do that? By what? Charles Darwin?

The volume. No, Oh my god, how could he do that? By what? Charles Darwin?

The news is where it's at.

The news is where it's at.

Welcome everybody back into NERD Session. As always, I'm Carson Breber and alongside me is Logan Camden, and today we are joined by a very special guest. He is the director of the new Netflix documentary series Court of Gold, which will come out on February eighteenth, offers pretty incredible access and insight into the really epic Olympic Games that we just saw in men's basketball this past year in Paris. He is Jake Rogal. Jake, we're delighted to have you with us here today. How are you doing.

Welcome everybody back into NERD Session. As always, I'm Carson Breber and alongside me is Logan Camden, and today we are joined by a very special guest. He is the director of the new Netflix documentary series Court of Gold, which will come out on February eighteenth, offers pretty incredible access and insight into the really epic Olympic Games that we just saw in men's basketball this past year in Paris. He is Jake Rogal. Jake, we're delighted to have you with us here today. How are you doing.

I'm good man. I appreciate you guys having me in the intro. It means a lot. So excited to talk to you guys.

I'm good man. I appreciate you guys having me in the intro. It means a lot. So excited to talk to you guys.

It of course, well we're excited to talk to you because I really was blown away by this documentary series. I really really enjoyed it. I killed it all yesterday. So you did have pretty incredible access throughout this process. You guys are in all the locker rooms for the four teams that you really covered closely, that being Team USA, Serbia, France and Canada. What to you was the most challenging part of the entire process of putting together this series.

It of course, well we're excited to talk to you because I really was blown away by this documentary series. I really really enjoyed it. I killed it all yesterday. So you did have pretty incredible access throughout this process. You guys are in all the locker rooms for the four teams that you really covered closely, that being Team USA, Serbia, France and Canada. What to you was the most challenging part of the entire process of putting together this series.

So the most challenging part is that was the logistics of everything, because you're up against so much. The environment itself is challenging because we've never done it before and we've never seen it before, so you're walking into something completely blind. There are cultural boundaries, and there are language barriers, and there's so many different factors that you need to be aware of in order to kind of like pull it all off.

So the most challenging part is that was the logistics of everything, because you're up against so much. The environment itself is challenging because we've never done it before and we've never seen it before, so you're walking into something completely blind. There are cultural boundaries, and there are language barriers, and there's so many different factors that you need to be aware of in order to kind of like pull it all off.

So logistically it was challenging in itself.

So logistically it was challenging in itself.

And then also you're gaining trust with people in a short period of time.

And then also you're gaining trust with people in a short period of time.

You know, we started.

You know, we started.

Shooting this thing in June of twenty four and the Olympics are in August. So normally on these project you have time to meet these guys and see them and get to know their families, and then you start shooting later. This was like you show up and start shooting and it's a really intimate environment and it's really personal to these guys because it's.

Shooting this thing in June of twenty four and the Olympics are in August. So normally on these project you have time to meet these guys and see them and get to know their families, and then you start shooting later. This was like you show up and start shooting and it's a really intimate environment and it's really personal to these guys because it's.

About their countries.

About their countries.

So gaining that trust is also another challenge that you're up against right away when you're doing a project this quickly.

So gaining that trust is also another challenge that you're up against right away when you're doing a project this quickly.

Yeah, the stakes were really high for these Olympics as well, and it felt different than anything we've ever seen. Do you think this was the peak of Olympic basketball or do you think future Olympics will just continue to get better.

Yeah, the stakes were really high for these Olympics as well, and it felt different than anything we've ever seen. Do you think this was the peak of Olympic basketball or do you think future Olympics will just continue to get better.

This sounds like I'm saying this because like I was working with the IOC, I don't work for them. I honestly think this is the start of it, because I think basketball is at a point now where the globality of the game will make for better competition. So the US had like a fifty year start basically on these countries to develop players and get these guys good. So they're constantly winning gold medals now, you see like France was in the silver medal game or the gold medal game two years in a row. They won the silver medal in twenty They're close this year. Serbia's coming. Jokic is the best player in the world. When be my be in by the next Olympics. There's so much parody now in the game that I actually think this is representative of what's to come and not like we've hit a peak and then it will go down from here. I think this is the start and this is kind of the last Olympics where it's like you go in being like the US is definitely gonna win.

This sounds like I'm saying this because like I was working with the IOC, I don't work for them. I honestly think this is the start of it, because I think basketball is at a point now where the globality of the game will make for better competition. So the US had like a fifty year start basically on these countries to develop players and get these guys good. So they're constantly winning gold medals now, you see like France was in the silver medal game or the gold medal game two years in a row. They won the silver medal in twenty They're close this year. Serbia's coming. Jokic is the best player in the world. When be my be in by the next Olympics. There's so much parody now in the game that I actually think this is representative of what's to come and not like we've hit a peak and then it will go down from here. I think this is the start and this is kind of the last Olympics where it's like you go in being like the US is definitely gonna win.

Yeah, it's incredible how much better the international competition has gotten and just how global the game is. The one reason that I think you could argue this does feel like such a peak moment is just because it's sort of the last hurrah or so we think for Lebron, Katie and Steph. But having that iconic generation and then also facing this level of competition really really incredible sports theater. So, like we said earlier, you really followed four teams closely, and when you do talk about the competition improving for Team USA, part of that is obviously global talent improving. Right, the four best players in the world right now all were born outside the USA. They're international players. But also the advantage in Evan Fournier pointed this out in one of the interviews, is that these international teams, they have trying camps every summer, they play together year over year. There's that consistency. So I was curious, did you notice a difference in closeness between some of those other teams compared to Team USA.

Yeah, it's incredible how much better the international competition has gotten and just how global the game is. The one reason that I think you could argue this does feel like such a peak moment is just because it's sort of the last hurrah or so we think for Lebron, Katie and Steph. But having that iconic generation and then also facing this level of competition really really incredible sports theater. So, like we said earlier, you really followed four teams closely, and when you do talk about the competition improving for Team USA, part of that is obviously global talent improving. Right, the four best players in the world right now all were born outside the USA. They're international players. But also the advantage in Evan Fournier pointed this out in one of the interviews, is that these international teams, they have trying camps every summer, they play together year over year. There's that consistency. So I was curious, did you notice a difference in closeness between some of those other teams compared to Team USA.

That is a great question.

That is a great question.

It's hard to say, because like while the Team USA guys don't play together, technically, they're still tight. Like these dudes are at events together or All Star Games together. They know each other's families and wives and kids and stuff. So like maybe on court chemistry needs a little bit longer to develop because they don't play together, but like chemistry itself is there.

It's hard to say, because like while the Team USA guys don't play together, technically, they're still tight. Like these dudes are at events together or All Star Games together. They know each other's families and wives and kids and stuff. So like maybe on court chemistry needs a little bit longer to develop because they don't play together, but like chemistry itself is there.

Like Stephan Lebron and Katie have.

Like Stephan Lebron and Katie have.

Chemistry, you see it, right, right, So like, yeah, like I think they're they're comparable. I think you see these guys and they're hanging out together and they're like they're friends because they.

Chemistry, you see it, right, right, So like, yeah, like I think they're they're comparable. I think you see these guys and they're hanging out together and they're like they're friends because they.

Do have exposure to each other.

Do have exposure to each other.

So while I do think that like the chemistry is a factor, and it does, it is an advantage for the foreign teams because of the how much they play together, the US still has a ton of chemistry just by these guys kind of knowing each other being around each other for so long.

So while I do think that like the chemistry is a factor, and it does, it is an advantage for the foreign teams because of the how much they play together, the US still has a ton of chemistry just by these guys kind of knowing each other being around each other for so long.

Right, follow to that, which team do you think had the most fun?

Right, follow to that, which team do you think had the most fun?

I think the Canadian team had the most fun.

I think the Canadian team had the most fun.

I don't know if that comes off because like they they are serious team, but I think they hadn't been there in a long time. They're finally like they've arrived with Shae, who's like you know Nash the best Canadian player ever. Shae is right up there and he might eventually pass Nash. So I think like there's a celebratory feel amongst the Canadians, like we're here, and I got that vibe, like they had cool hip hop playing at their practices and they were like they would kind of joke with us a little bit. And like, I think if the French team wasn't in France, maybe that would have been my answer. But the fact that there was so much pressure on them and like all eyes were on them, it like it was a tight feel, and maybe I'm projecting that, but I think Canada would be the team I thought like maybe had the most fun.

I don't know if that comes off because like they they are serious team, but I think they hadn't been there in a long time. They're finally like they've arrived with Shae, who's like you know Nash the best Canadian player ever. Shae is right up there and he might eventually pass Nash. So I think like there's a celebratory feel amongst the Canadians, like we're here, and I got that vibe, like they had cool hip hop playing at their practices and they were like they would kind of joke with us a little bit. And like, I think if the French team wasn't in France, maybe that would have been my answer. But the fact that there was so much pressure on them and like all eyes were on them, it like it was a tight feel, and maybe I'm projecting that, but I think Canada would be the team I thought like maybe had the most fun.

That's very interesting. I feel like Shae is a very serious guy and you sort of view him as the leader. I kind of thought you might say Serbia just because maybe it was just a cope, but after the Team USA semi final, they seem to be having fun at that point, perhaps with a little bit of liquid lubrication.

That's very interesting. I feel like Shae is a very serious guy and you sort of view him as the leader. I kind of thought you might say Serbia just because maybe it was just a cope, but after the Team USA semi final, they seem to be having fun at that point, perhaps with a little bit of liquid lubrication.

I want to ask.

I want to ask.

About some of the specific figures who were really spotlighted or stood out to me at least in one way or another in this dock, and I think probably The first guy who comes to mind is Kevin Durant, and there's a moment where Katie gets very emotional, basically just talking about basketball's ability to bring people together and his love for the game. What was it like for you getting that sort of access to him as a person and did it change how you view him or do you feel like he's been treated unfairly or misrepresented by a lot of the mainstream sports media that we consume.

About some of the specific figures who were really spotlighted or stood out to me at least in one way or another in this dock, and I think probably The first guy who comes to mind is Kevin Durant, and there's a moment where Katie gets very emotional, basically just talking about basketball's ability to bring people together and his love for the game. What was it like for you getting that sort of access to him as a person and did it change how you view him or do you feel like he's been treated unfairly or misrepresented by a lot of the mainstream sports media that we consume.

Yeah, I think he has been treated unfairly, but it's hard to know that without seeing what he's about. He is so singularly focused on basketball, and it's who he is. It's made up the fibers of his being, so he's passionate about it. And I think when you are around someone who's that singularly focused, it's rare. So it's easy to look at it and misunderstand it because it's unique in somebody. That moment, when he opens up like that, you're grateful that he's comfortable enough to do that, but you're also like it's a respect thing because you're like, you care so much that you're willing to be this emotional in front of a stranger.

Yeah, I think he has been treated unfairly, but it's hard to know that without seeing what he's about. He is so singularly focused on basketball, and it's who he is. It's made up the fibers of his being, so he's passionate about it. And I think when you are around someone who's that singularly focused, it's rare. So it's easy to look at it and misunderstand it because it's unique in somebody. That moment, when he opens up like that, you're grateful that he's comfortable enough to do that, but you're also like it's a respect thing because you're like, you care so much that you're willing to be this emotional in front of a stranger.

I mean, I had met him one time before that.

I mean, I had met him one time before that.

He didn't even remember who I was, So it just shows you his love of basketball. And I do think I'm excited for people to see that moment because, like I do, think it helps to understand someone who is difficult to understand from a distance, but when you're around him and you see it, it makes perfect sense. And I think he has been misunderstood, misrepresented in a lot of ways, and I do think it's unfair.

He didn't even remember who I was, So it just shows you his love of basketball. And I do think I'm excited for people to see that moment because, like I do, think it helps to understand someone who is difficult to understand from a distance, but when you're around him and you see it, it makes perfect sense. And I think he has been misunderstood, misrepresented in a lot of ways, and I do think it's unfair.

He's a great dude.

He's a great dude.

He's emotional, he's passionate, and he cares about basketball more than anything because it's made his life what it is. So he has a respect there and a reverence for the game that's unlike anything I've been around. So yeah, I do think that's an important moment and I'm excited for people to see that.

He's emotional, he's passionate, and he cares about basketball more than anything because it's made his life what it is. So he has a respect there and a reverence for the game that's unlike anything I've been around. So yeah, I do think that's an important moment and I'm excited for people to see that.

That was definitely that was one of my favorite parts, especially the parts where.

That was definitely that was one of my favorite parts, especially the parts where.

You included with his mom.

You included with his mom.

That kind of vulnerability is really really rare, and I thought it gave a really good insight into him. You were talking about pressure earlier with the French national team, and we're talking about big figures in the dock. Another guy with pressure on his shoulders was Steve Kerr and you touch on a little bit in the dock about how it's a thankless job. What in your perspective on the job he did with that team, what do you see as his greatest strength as a leader. He is like one of the best people to be around because he doesn't apply a blueprint to the people that he's around.

That kind of vulnerability is really really rare, and I thought it gave a really good insight into him. You were talking about pressure earlier with the French national team, and we're talking about big figures in the dock. Another guy with pressure on his shoulders was Steve Kerr and you touch on a little bit in the dock about how it's a thankless job. What in your perspective on the job he did with that team, what do you see as his greatest strength as a leader. He is like one of the best people to be around because he doesn't apply a blueprint to the people that he's around.

He will sort of be himself to.

He will sort of be himself to.

What you need at all times, and that includes our crew, that includes someone serving him a meal, and that includes his players. So, like, what I appreciate about him and what you see is like he has an emotional intelligence about him that is unlike anything you normally see. And I think his ability to read people and see what they need, whether it's a good sound bite for us or drawing up some on the board for one of his players. He just gets it and he understands people so well that like it's no surprise he's had so much success coaching, and even when he was a player, he's kind of that way too, because he just know he can he he knows people, he can read a room. He has an emotional intelligence about him that's just unbelievable. So, like coaching is the perfect thing for him, but he could be you could see him in politics, you could see him running a company because he has the emotional intelligence to do that. And it's just so obvious when you meet him, like that's the kind of dude you'd want to play for. You feel that immediately, like you don't want to let him down, not because he's hard, you don't want to let him down. So he's like such a good guy and he cares about you, whether he's met you on time or a hundred, it's just, yeah, he's great.

What you need at all times, and that includes our crew, that includes someone serving him a meal, and that includes his players. So, like, what I appreciate about him and what you see is like he has an emotional intelligence about him that is unlike anything you normally see. And I think his ability to read people and see what they need, whether it's a good sound bite for us or drawing up some on the board for one of his players. He just gets it and he understands people so well that like it's no surprise he's had so much success coaching, and even when he was a player, he's kind of that way too, because he just know he can he he knows people, he can read a room. He has an emotional intelligence about him that's just unbelievable. So, like coaching is the perfect thing for him, but he could be you could see him in politics, you could see him running a company because he has the emotional intelligence to do that. And it's just so obvious when you meet him, like that's the kind of dude you'd want to play for. You feel that immediately, like you don't want to let him down, not because he's hard, you don't want to let him down. So he's like such a good guy and he cares about you, whether he's met you on time or a hundred, it's just, yeah, he's great.

I love that answer. That's always what stood out to me about Kur as a coach, and he talks about that balance of joy and competitiveness in the dock, and there's a moment with him and Staph after the gold medal game where you're like such an emotionally intelligent, open person. It's pretty rare to see from somebody who could be viewed as like an authority figure and be more intimidating. I want to ask about two players specifically before we wrap up here, because you had close access to two of the NBA's biggest rising superstars, and Anthony Edwards and Victor Wee mon Yama, and I felt that they came across very different, just very different personalities. What were your insights on how those two carry themselves in how they approach the game.

I love that answer. That's always what stood out to me about Kur as a coach, and he talks about that balance of joy and competitiveness in the dock, and there's a moment with him and Staph after the gold medal game where you're like such an emotionally intelligent, open person. It's pretty rare to see from somebody who could be viewed as like an authority figure and be more intimidating. I want to ask about two players specifically before we wrap up here, because you had close access to two of the NBA's biggest rising superstars, and Anthony Edwards and Victor Wee mon Yama, and I felt that they came across very different, just very different personalities. What were your insights on how those two carry themselves in how they approach the game.

They're both similar in the fact that they are completely authentically themselves, and I think that when you are that way, it's a confidence that gets you to high levels.

They're both similar in the fact that they are completely authentically themselves, and I think that when you are that way, it's a confidence that gets you to high levels.

So they have the confidence.

So they have the confidence.

Victor is, you know, he's young, but he's such an old soul, and that's kind of a cliche saying, but it's true. Like he is really he thinks before he speaks. He's very very smart, he's very very thoughtful. I felt like I was talking to somebody older than me and he's significantly younger than me, and it just shows you he has the head to do big things. I mean, think about it. He's in his early twenties. The whole country's looking at him, and he's calm. Like that in itself is amazing, not on in the calm. He's an amazing athlete. And Anthony is just you know, he's incredibly smart. Also, he's incredibly charismatic, but he's he's a little more outwardly confident, and he's a little more outwardly you know, entered, and I think that's just who he is. And I think the thing that that was similar about both of them too is that you can't take your eyes off of them when they're in the room. Victor not only aesthetically, but like he's just mesmerizing kind of watch move throughout the room. And Anthony has a charisma about him that like you don't even know he's there, and you're like, is someone sort of behind me? And you turn around.

Victor is, you know, he's young, but he's such an old soul, and that's kind of a cliche saying, but it's true. Like he is really he thinks before he speaks. He's very very smart, he's very very thoughtful. I felt like I was talking to somebody older than me and he's significantly younger than me, and it just shows you he has the head to do big things. I mean, think about it. He's in his early twenties. The whole country's looking at him, and he's calm. Like that in itself is amazing, not on in the calm. He's an amazing athlete. And Anthony is just you know, he's incredibly smart. Also, he's incredibly charismatic, but he's he's a little more outwardly confident, and he's a little more outwardly you know, entered, and I think that's just who he is. And I think the thing that that was similar about both of them too is that you can't take your eyes off of them when they're in the room. Victor not only aesthetically, but like he's just mesmerizing kind of watch move throughout the room. And Anthony has a charisma about him that like you don't even know he's there, and you're like, is someone sort of behind me? And you turn around.

So I think both those guys just so impressive, you know.

So I think both those guys just so impressive, you know.

I think the league's in great hands with those guys because they're so good on the court, but also off the court, they're they're mesmerizing in ways that are hard to put into words. My favorite part by far, when you guys are in there with Obama and Anthony Edwards and them, that that part put a smile on my face for the entire section.

I think the league's in great hands with those guys because they're so good on the court, but also off the court, they're they're mesmerizing in ways that are hard to put into words. My favorite part by far, when you guys are in there with Obama and Anthony Edwards and them, that that part put a smile on my face for the entire section.

I wasn't sure that ant knew that he was speaking to the former president. Man, he talks to everybody the exact same way.

I wasn't sure that ant knew that he was speaking to the former president. Man, he talks to everybody the exact same way.

Yeah, no matter who you are him, and that's just kind of.

Yeah, no matter who you are him, and that's just kind of.

How it is.

How it is.

And I also loved Wemby's perspective too. I think specifically when he was talking about that pressure and how he said it was a privilege and not like a burden on his shoulders. He's just so mature beyond his years. We know you're short on time, so we don't want to hold you for too long. But just a few more questions. Was there any funny or maybe seemingly insignificant moment in the process that that really stood out to you?

And I also loved Wemby's perspective too. I think specifically when he was talking about that pressure and how he said it was a privilege and not like a burden on his shoulders. He's just so mature beyond his years. We know you're short on time, so we don't want to hold you for too long. But just a few more questions. Was there any funny or maybe seemingly insignificant moment in the process that that really stood out to you?

Yeah, I mean when I when I interviewed Victor, I had to sit on a barstool and he had we match. That was funny to me, but I mean significant. It felt like there were significant moments throughout, and like we tried. The way that we put the show together was we found the moments and then we built scenes around those moments that the moments would be impactful. So like what you're seeing is really the best stuff that we had. Like there's nothing I can really think of that hit the floor that I'm like, man, I wish that was in there. Like we shot Greece qualifying for the Olympics, which was cool, but like by the time the show starts, you want to kind of be at the Olympics, So that felt like shouldn't be included. But otherwise, like you're seeing the most significant things. I mean, like seeing Nicholas between freak out in the French locker room, Like that was an insane moment. We were like, I don't speak French, but like I know that was impactful. So like, yeah, I think you see you see a German player in the locker room crying after one of the games. I won't give it away who, but things like that where you're seeing raw motion and like you really realize that's what they're doing in the moment the cameras are in the background.

Yeah, I mean when I when I interviewed Victor, I had to sit on a barstool and he had we match. That was funny to me, but I mean significant. It felt like there were significant moments throughout, and like we tried. The way that we put the show together was we found the moments and then we built scenes around those moments that the moments would be impactful. So like what you're seeing is really the best stuff that we had. Like there's nothing I can really think of that hit the floor that I'm like, man, I wish that was in there. Like we shot Greece qualifying for the Olympics, which was cool, but like by the time the show starts, you want to kind of be at the Olympics, So that felt like shouldn't be included. But otherwise, like you're seeing the most significant things. I mean, like seeing Nicholas between freak out in the French locker room, Like that was an insane moment. We were like, I don't speak French, but like I know that was impactful. So like, yeah, I think you see you see a German player in the locker room crying after one of the games. I won't give it away who, but things like that where you're seeing raw motion and like you really realize that's what they're doing in the moment the cameras are in the background.

That's the stuff that always sticks out to me. And I'm grateful for.

That's the stuff that always sticks out to me. And I'm grateful for.

Well, real quick, Jake, thank you so much for your time. Before we let you go. What are you most excited for people to see in this series?

Well, real quick, Jake, thank you so much for your time. Before we let you go. What are you most excited for people to see in this series?

I think I'm excited for people to see the globality of basketball. Like it sounds like a canned answer, but I think people are gonna watch this and they're gonna think it's a USA heavy story and like, yes, the USA that they're the story that people are tuning in to watch, But like, I think there's a lot of amazing stuff from these other countries, and I think it's like we tried to spread it out, so like you are getting the Canada side the Service side, the French side, like a little bit of some of the German like.

I think I'm excited for people to see the globality of basketball. Like it sounds like a canned answer, but I think people are gonna watch this and they're gonna think it's a USA heavy story and like, yes, the USA that they're the story that people are tuning in to watch, But like, I think there's a lot of amazing stuff from these other countries, and I think it's like we tried to spread it out, so like you are getting the Canada side the Service side, the French side, like a little bit of some of the German like.

I just think the globality of it.

I just think the globality of it.

I hope people realize like it is a wide, sweeping doc and it's not just about one team.

I hope people realize like it is a wide, sweeping doc and it's not just about one team.

I can tell you I really appreciated that. As a basketball super fan, I was very excited that it wasn't just all Team USA all the time. There was a whole episode that really didn't involve Team USA much at all, and I thought that was great because there were so many interesting stories in these Olympics. Jake, thank you again. Everybody go check out Court of Gold when it comes out February eighteenth on Netflix. It really is phenomenal and well worth your time.

I can tell you I really appreciated that. As a basketball super fan, I was very excited that it wasn't just all Team USA all the time. There was a whole episode that really didn't involve Team USA much at all, and I thought that was great because there were so many interesting stories in these Olympics. Jake, thank you again. Everybody go check out Court of Gold when it comes out February eighteenth on Netflix. It really is phenomenal and well worth your time.

Thank you. I really appreciate you guys saying that thanks for your time. It's great to talk to you guys. Yeah, thank you, Jake.

Thank you. I really appreciate you guys saying that thanks for your time. It's great to talk to you guys. Yeah, thank you, Jake.

If you like basketball, you're gonna like this documentary.

If you like basketball, you're gonna like this documentary.