I also do think that a lot of the criticism of me from certain people are based in homophobia, and a lot of criticism for me from others that that criticism is based in racism. And I'm a big boy. And the reason why I am where I am now is because I do that, and I keep it pushing, and I keep it real and I keep it moving. But I am always looking out for the underserved. I'm always looking out for women. I'm always looking out for black folks. Because if I don't do that, then why why the hell am I? That was Don Lemon talking about arguably some of the toughest times that he had on air at CNN. He is on today's version of Naked. Thank you for joining us. It's the greatest and they do and so on today's show we have uh journalist friend of the show. Now I I say he's a friend of the show, Don Lemon. For those of you who have been sleeping under a rock and may not know who he is. He has been the face of news for over a decade, primetime news at CNN for a very long time, and I feel as if Don has covered some of the most important stories that have shifted our culture, more specifically in the black community, but also in the world. As we experienced four years of that president called Donald Trump. I think that was the first time that we were able to see a sitting president actively go after media members. Uh. He went after Jamal Hill, he went after Megan Kelly for different reasons, and he actively and still goes after Don Lemon. Like in fact, the former president is suing CNN because he feels as if they were the reasons why he was treated so poorly. Like you, it's freedom of speech. By the way, I'm here, here's the journalist coming out in me. Freedom of speech that is that is something that we are all entitled to, which is why it's hard to legislate if you will social media. You can't go to Twitter, to soccer mom to five seven and say hey, you can't tweet I hate carry. Sure you can, and it's freedom of speech. That's just where we are right now in the world. UM, in terms of everyone has an opinion and they feel like it should be known and they can tell you directly how they feel about you in real time. And what I have witnessed, um and how in which Don Lemon has been treated makes me sick Um. Early on it was because people, as he will talk about in this podcast, felt like he wasn't black enough and felt like he really wasn't there for us. Um. It's interesting because when you are black and you have a platform, you have a responsibility. Whether you realize it or not, you just do. You may not even want the responsibility. Some people don't really want to embrace the responsibility, and the culture will let you know if you're not embracing the responsibility. But Don has and he has dealt with so much hatred. He talks about death threats he received while the president was in office, that Donald Trump was in office. The death threats were disgusting. He said he would walk down the street and people will yell hey Ffford to him. And he said a lot of the hatred he receives is probably rooted in homophobia. Yes, because he is openly gay, but also because he's a black man in America. I mean imagine dealing with both of those. What some would say would be a stigma that really prevents you from being your full self. Well, it doesn't prevent Don from being his full self. He's on the podcast today talking about what he went through, how he got here, but talk a little bit about his skincare off the top, because I'm obsessed with good skin. But nevertheless, I need you guys to embrace, welcome and support Don Don Lemon joining us un naked. I am very excited about this guest because one I've admired him for years. I'm going to tell him about several interactions I'm sure in which he forgot until most recently that we've had where I stalked him. And then I want to talk about, um, just your place in culture and and and while you probably don't want to hear compliments, like most folks on air, we don't receive our compliments well, but this should should be truth and you deserve all compliments. So welcome the naked Don. Thank you, Carrie. You know I love you and I'm I've I've always rooted for your success because I love you, but also mainly because you are so talented. You're one of the most talented broadcasters I know. And um, and you receive it right. I know you said we hate it's hard. It's hard, but I'm taking it. I'm like, give it to me. And I have you. You know, I had you on my show at night as much as possible. On the my short lived show on CNN Plus I had. You were part of the first test of that show, so my love and respect for you go our endless. I think it's interesting. I received that. It's hard for me to to receive compliment, so then I just get really silly about it. But thank you. UM here's what I'm gonna tell you that I think is really interesting. Both of us are always run anyway, and you text me prior to the podcast like I'm a few minutes later. I just have rehearsals. You have a new show coming out. Congratulations. UM, I too was late when you were texting me. I was putting my hair on. My hair wasn't glued on fully, and I was like, thinking, minute again, you were not. Wait hold on, I'm still doing the interview. Hold on, I will just because you can still hear me. People think like, um, and you're talking about your hair, that I glue my hair on, or that I sprinkle it on, or that I color it, and none of which is true. So this is my hair for everyone who watches. It's not ask as it used to be. But I don't sprinkle. I don't every once in a while, use like a topic tip for the shine, but not for volume. This is my hair and I do not call her, so stop writing me on social media talking about my fake hair. That's it. Your hair is come back. Because my phone was saying, my computer, I hope you include this in your I am. I am because you're being honest as honest can be. Here's what I was gonna say because I had to. My computer was dying and I was like, don't die on me now, computer, which is steel mate? Do Your hair is perfect. No one can talk about about your hair at all. You are handsome, beyond handsome. You guys. I'm gonna just take two minutes, like in person, perfect skin rude. And I said, what do you do your skin or what did you say? Oh, coconut oil. Yeah, but soap and um and coconut oil. But I do um in the shower. I keep the you know, the coconut oil with the pump jar. Uh huh. As soon as I'm done showering, I put it all over everywhere, like your body, and that's that's all I do. I'm so jealous because it's a facial it's uh, all types of exfoliating it's all kind of sunscreen, and you just like I just just cocon a wheel and I just pop up and I'm just how I am. Um, I have two things to ask you, and you have to pontificate because I'm gonna get a charge. I mean charge the computer while I do it how long? And I want to make sure my research is correct. You got your college degree at thirty years old. I got my college degree when it was in nineteen nineties. Six. Um yeah, I was. My journalism professor told me at l s U one. You know, I wasn't a great student because I was having a good time, Like I loved college when I started, so I was having fun. And then I didn't know what I wanted to do. I tried to be like a lawyer and go into like pre law, and then I was like, oh maybe I'll study economics. And then because people would tell me that you're not gonna make any money as a journalist. And then once I realized that, well it just didn't matter what you know, the money is, I should do what I love. But my journalism professor told me that I would never make it as a journalist, and I, um, he wanted me to do something that was more suitable for my talent. And when I was in Louisiana, like to me having him say that, I knew what was happened. I knew what was up because the people who were less talented than me, Um, he would kicky with them, the pretty girls and the blondes, you know what I'm saying. And for me, all of a sudden, you know, I had trouble editing. Instead of him trying to help me learn to edit better, meaning like videotape editing, um, he just said, you're not gonna make this, and I'm like, okay, well, and then I realized in that moment, and that one instant, you know, when you had those sort of um life defining moments, I realized that I was not going to achieve what I wanted to achieve if I stayed in Louisiana. So very short after that, I left. But Okay, I'm confused, because if you were you working in this business, give me your career trajectory. Because I knew I was working, you were working without a college degree. That is that normal? Yeah? I mean back then, look, look, a lot of the people who I respected, a lot of my um of the the people that I saw as mentors and people who I wanted to emulate, they didn't have some of them. They didn't have college degrees. And when I finally told my news director in New York and when I you know, got a job there, um, they told me that I didn't need a degree. And I and I knew that I had to have that degree because I didn't want people saying, well, you got the job because you're black, you're an affirmative acting high, you're this or that. And also I didn't want people to have a reason, um not to give me the job. So I you know, um, two dollars in my pocket and I loaded up the truck and move it really like the Beverly Hillbilly. So two hundred dollars in my pocket, I loaded up my EIGHTI seven jeep wrangler and moved. Without a job, I moved into UH an acquaintance as it wasn't even a friend their home. Um out of charity, they took me in and I you know, helped to pay the bills. And then finally I got a job as um Christmas relief or holiday relief at Macy's and Harold Square UH. And then I could find a long story short. I got a job at Fox five on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, working as a trainee in the newsroom, making five dollars an hour. It was a six month deal that was below the poverty level, and I was sub letting a room in the back of someone's apartment for three and some dollars a month that I still could not afford um. And I just worked my way up do I could do anything. I started as a trainee, which was opening mail, answering phones, getting dry cleaning, going to the loading dr grab people's launch, ordering whatever. It was, a desk assistant, then an assign an editor, then a field producer, than a writer, than a satellite spats coordinator. I could do everything. By the time I left there, I could do everything but carry I would work full time and go to school full time. So if my classes, if I would take night classes, i'd work during the day. If I took day classes, I would work at night. And every once in a while I do like part time, um, you know, at school and then part time at work, depending on what my schedule was. But I was determined to get that degree, and I got that degree, and I didn't even go to graduation. I had a job in Birmingham, Alabama as the weekend anchor. By the time I was supposed to put on a cap and gown and march across the aisle. Congratulations, and your rise of local news is by way of background for folks who don't understand it. Everything he's saying. I'm just shaking my head and nodding. You can't see. But I'm also being real hood and plaguing at my computer while discussing this with him. So thank you for being the professional that you are because you quit it. Um. But the low cool news grind is really hard, and you go and you go to small markets and you work your way up. And I remember, like you said, when people try to kill your dream my very first job in West Virginia, a guy told me, you know, very few people make it to the top ten market, so I don't know how long you're gonna do this. And I have like a little boy grown as man by the way. Um, I just hate when people try to kill your dreams. But there's something about I know every day, even at work, even even currently as we speak, as you are, Don Lemon, there are people who want to kill the dream are the idea of who you are. Um, But I love how I know your humility comes from the grind because I've been there. But don I think what is interesting that I've watched and I've witnessed, and I'm gonna use the word I've been using it a lot, is the word evolved. When you first came on the scene in Atlanta, I was working at the local CBS station, maybe CBS forty six. I think you were hired around the same time, or maybe a little bit before t J. Holmes. I remember you, yeah, but everybody was like, look at these two dope black men they just hired. At that time, it felt very special. It felt different. And you guys are on the end, yes, yes, working in your own world. And I remember thinking, God, I am so excited to see you rise. And then at you know, journalism conventions, I'd run up to you and harass you. You and I hosted a few things together, and I know you're you were really busy, but you went from this person where I think you were yourself, but then you got really authentically yourself. Talk to me about your relationship with the culture, because at one point people were just mad at you black folks was mad at you, and then we turned around and was like, oh, don with the ships. But it's interesting because I just had a conversation at UM CO produced a documentary with Gary Cohen and others on Colin Kaepernick and in away, Colins sort of faced similar situation. When Colin started to stand up. There were people who were like, WHOA wait a minute, He's the last person we thought who would be standing up and who would be doing these things. I think a lot of the times, UM, we don't allow our own people too. We don't give him a freedom to be all of who they are. Uh. And you take a moment in time and you you use it to judge someone's entire career or entire existence and entire being, and that is unfair because we don't do that to our white counterparts. Let's just be honest and so um Uh I understood, and I understand more than ever now what I mean to the culture, because you know, we just did an ad week thing for my new show UM Today in New York and it's I mean, people address their like they address other members of the media, and even my colleagues like, oh my god, I love watching it. It's great, it's great, it's great. But you know how people address me, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. You step up for us, you're standing up for us. Thank you for holding my hand during the pandemic. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And that means more than oh I love watching you. That's great, right, that's vanity, but the thank you part is deep. So um look, I think that um we uh, my white counterparts are allowed to be journalists and to just be truth tellers without carrying the weight of the culture on their back and on their shoulders and fair not I do, And you know, I accept that it was hard in the beginning to you know, be able to um do things to to give a perspective and a point of view and then have my own people like you know, judge me and yell at me. But ultimately, um, people come around. And if you can come around, and if you can um by the fashion and the sneakers of someone who says that, um, you know, slavery was a choice by black people, then you can come around to a journalist who's uh tasked with telling the truth and informing people regardless of their ethnicity or sexuality or whatever. So um uh so I think that's where I stand. I also do think that a lot of the criticism of me from certain people are based in homophobia, and a lot of criticism for me from others that that criticism is based in racism. And I'm a big boy. And the reason why I am where I am now is because I do that, and I keep it pushing, and I keep it real and I keep it moving. But I am always looking out for the underserved. I'm always looking out for women. I'm always looking out for black folks. Because if I don't do that, then why why the hell am I here? Yo? My entire ethos about how we move? Uh. Three things that you're pointed out. One, I think it's disgusting that people can't appreciate for you and I know, appreciate who you are. Homophobia is real. I think it's even more difficult for you to be in a position you are in and be openly gay. I I read that you wanted to come out because of a kid who ultimately was outed by his roommate online and then committed suicide. I'm sure there were other reasons, but maybe that was there was the reason. That's why I dedicated my book too. Yeah, and it was all those things were happening, um when I wrote the book. But I don't mean to cut you off, but um, that was one of the reasons that I that I thought it was okay to be able to come out. Yes, well, bravo to you. I know it's difficult. There are people when I see people in today's world who still feel like they have to hide. I mean, I've been in this business for a very long time. I used to have mentors. I used to have guys that I love working with, women I love working with, but they would live this lie. They would have to pretend they were in a whole another world. And I understand that. But when you came out, how much freedom did you feel, no matter how much pushback you had. Oh my gosh, it was amazing. I mean, listen to the sense of autonomy that I had, just the sense of autonomy that it gave me. And whether you know, this particular career or worked out, or that move to coming out publicly, whether it worked for me in a positive way career wise, didn't ad ultimately didn't matter. Um, it did because I think it made me a better human being. It made me a better journalist. It made me. It gave me more authenticity and more autonomy. And you know when people say, you know you're kind of feeling yourself. I started to really come into my own. That's why you said you were real and then you really became real. So um so um. It almost didn't matter because I was free. And when you had that sense of freedom, you're like, well, I am free to do this, and if this doesn't work, then I am free to do something else. So whether if it was a journalist or working at a fast food place or um, you know, being a car salesman or whatever it was, I was going to be successful because I was free. And that's all. That's all it meant to me. By the way, that's a proverb. I was going to be successful because I am free. All gonna take that is quote? All right, more with don after the break, do not go anywhere fast forward. Mama has to pay bills, every champion and care every champion is to be a champianta champion and carry chappion and carry chappianta chappion and carry chappion and carry chappionis and sports and then the same make and make it work very chappion and carry chappion is to be a champianta champion. They carry chappi and they champion. They carry chappion and carry champion sports. And then the same make and make it warm. So then you you talk about your show, don Lemon, your your show in the primetime or evening rather late evening, um was everything you you do, know what you mean to the culture. But there there are very few talents that become musty TV. And so this is what I'm talking to you about. This hard work that you did in local news. Then you grind your way into a position this wonderful inco position, and people feel like you're prim and proper. Then you're fully freely yourself. Right then we get to watch you, which I believe is appointment viewing, and hopefully it stays that way on New Year's Eve. But your show at night is also that I'm I'm here for It's funny, it's a reminder that we can have this platform and really be ourselves and um, and it's hard to be naked and be honest with who you are. You have this transition with this new show. You're doing rehearsals. Tell me what people can expect from this new show as opposed to what we were able to see with Don Lemon tonight. Okay, so listen, and people are thinking, if anyone is thinking, let me disabuse any one of the notion that Don Lemon is somehow gonna be um A, if it's gonna be a sort of sanitized version of the Don Lemon that was on at night, then you're wrong. So let me disabuse you of that notion, um And so listen, I won't have to. I think that primetime news, especially in cable, has become tribal, right, and it's become like everyone fighting, and there's a night fight every single night. You're like, okay, so had I grown tired of that? Yeah? I did a little bit. But the reason that I chose mornings is because you cannot you within that format, you do not see Don Lemon in full effect. So you will see the Don Lemon that you see at night, that who challenges people, who holds people to account, who gives people the leeway to be who they are and say what they want to say. And also with that sometimes comes the rope to hang yourself right, and so you will see all of that, but you'll also see me smile a lot more. You also see that I have more latitude to elevate the conversation. If I did not think that this was a good move where someone was trying to sanitize me or quiet me in any way, I would not have done this. I did not have to do this, and that is hard for people to understand. Why are you going from nighttime to daytime? Well, I've done it for eight and a half years and it has been successful, and I didn't have to. The reason I'm doing it is because I think there's another place for me. There's a different audience for me, a bigger audience. People at night aren't gonna forget about me because I'm not there. They're gonna They're gonna see me on CNN. I'll still be there some nights when they are big nights and they are election nights that there's big breaking news, You're gonna see me there. But I have this opportunity in the moment and in the morning to be able to shape the editorial direction of the network and therefore shape the editorial direction I believe in the country. Because it will get picked up media, other media will pick will pick it up. Social media will pick it up. So the things that Don Lemon used to say at night as the last bite of the apple of everyone who had done the news all day, you had seen the news, I will now be the Don Lemon who gets to say it first in the morning, and everyone else will get the bite at the apple that I've already bitten off of. Do you see what I'm saying? Listen, you get to set the tone for what the news is, the news of the and so I want to get there and be able to do that. And I also want to be able to smile, and also want to be able to laugh. And I also want to be able to talk about my wardrobe. I also want to be able to wear a turtlenecks in the morning. I also want to be able to wear jeans in the morning and not wear a necktie. And and to to like wake up with people and say have you thought about this? Meet today? Maybe this is what you should be thinking about. Have you ever thought about this? Maybe instead of like saying here's what I think at night. And it's like, I know you've seen this on Anderson, I know you've seen it on Aaron. I know you've seen this. I have to take. Yeah, now it's like, here's my take. Okay, Jake Wolf Anderson, go for it. I've given mine. I've met and you're doing the show with Poppy and I met her when I came in studio. I think maybe during the Serena Williams um when she was retiring, and Poppy was like, you know, Don's my best friend, He's one of my closest friends in I was like, I love Don, but who doesn't Mike, who doesn't? And yeah, well yeah they don't, you know, yeah, you know. But I felt like that was going to be a good rapport and a good relationship. I'm asking for advice though you are very teflon literally teflon, Don, When does it get to be too much? I literally think it happens to all of us, Like when you and you are consistently trending, you'll tag me and something and it's like it's it's people are in my d ms for three days or in my messages for three days mad, And I'm like, what how does that deal with this? I know you don't see it anymore because it's impossible to see it, but there is a time in your career and probably still now people are vocal about how much they dislike you as you walk down the street. Yeah, and they come for me. Um. Well it's I mean, honestly, you know, it's weird even though it's tough, and people hate criticism and you hate people hating on you, especially Look, it really hurts when when you're all people when I own people do it, I'm like, come on, but I expect the racist to do it. I expect the biggest to do it. I expect the haters to be like I expect that. Um. But it's actually, you know, it's a it's actually, um, kind of the best position that you can be in media because people um for people to love you and hate you, especially in cable news because people hate watch you and they love watching and the haters actually and the conservatives who talk about me in ways that I'm like, I don't know who this caricature of a person that they are a character is, but okay, have at it. They are my biggest pr agents. I don't have to pay for press because they are. And people are like, well, I'm like, I don't say what they want to say because they are so normally if I'm on, um, you know, just sort of traditional media. It's fine, but I would never have that exposure and conservative media if it wasn't for my haters. Yeah, they would never never have that that that exposure and sort of bro culture media. Yeah, they love to hate me, they love to talk about me. So fine, thank you very much to ching to the bank smiles. Yeah, you're like, Hi, I'm gay while you are here being rude and talking all your trash and miserable. I get it. You don't have to here's my advice to you, Carrie. You don't have to read it and you don't have to respond to it because the next day they're onto someone else, they're onto something else. So just let your haters hate. And if you don't, you know that saying it's true, if you don't have a thousand or whatever or a million haters a day, then you're not doing it right. So you're not winning. You know what's concerned about you? Yeah, it does. It does weigh on you. I mean it did start to weigh on me because especially at night, UM, social media becomes so toxic. UM. Cable news had um in that format for me. I'm not saying this for anybody else, any of my colleague they're thriving. You know, Anderson is an icon. He's been there forever. So is Aaron Um and whoever it is that that takes over for the times that I was in. But for me, I would be lying to you if I if I didn't tell you that it was starting to get to me, to become toxic, and I just didn't every single night want to oh my god, everything is terrible. Blah blah blah blah blah. Everything is terrible. But I think there's a different approach that can be taken, and that's one reason that I'm doing what I'm doing. So Donna, I like that you're making it clear you left because it was on your terms. People are suggesting that there was, you know, because everyone thinks they know everything, that it's not what you wanted and and now you have to do mornings. But I the way I looked at it was like the morning's needed you, you know what I mean. That's the way I looked at it as someone who watches and has been there. I'm not saying that other people weren't great. I'm not saying they but they needed a spark. I mean, because this is about ratings and we want to compete. It makes total sense to me that so they would put you there, and you would want to be there because you're going to give them New Life CNN in the morning. New Life, Yes it's there, but why not battle with the other morning shows? Even though that may not be your your But this is business, right, This is this is what we're talking about. This is the business of ratings right. But also it's listen, it's not even just about ratings. Again, I can't be clear that this obviously it was my choice, Like I mean, do you think have you ever known me to like walk away from something and I'll be pushed out of something? Or if it if it's indeed it did happen, they were trying to push me out and give me that, I wouldn't say something. I would just say it on the air like hey, even this is Don Lemon tonight, and you need to know that there are forces or whatever trying to that's that is who I am. And then I would suffer the consequences for saying that. So do you not get it twisted? It's like the old um what's his name? I forget? If your producers can remind why can't I think of his name. You got you got to know one to hold him, no one to fold him, no one to walk away, no one to run. Yeah in the table, that's exactly yeah. I was like, well, this is an opportunity for me if they're asking me to do this, and let me see, let me, let me sort of gauge this. This is the Networks president who is a morning show guru who started Morning Joe and um CBS this morning. This is the first thing that he's asking me to do out of the gate, his first big initiative, and he wants me Um okay on that level, duh. On the other level, this is an opportunity for me to actually stay at the company that I'm staying and not have to actually walk away and start away at a new company and um and and and and deal with the politics, have a new company and do something that is completely different than what I'm doing. That's that opportunity, not more. You have to go out on your own, try to keep yourself relevant through social media until you build something on your own and then bring back. An audience is a built in audience, built in salary, built in opportunity. It's like it's it's a no brainer right, and so it makes perfect sense to me. I'm like, yeah, great, I love it. Move them, put them, let's watch. And you're right. I gotta tell anyone who is out there listening, as you know, if you don't take risks, if no risks, no reward, he said. I just I literally, I was just having this conversation. I am doing a new show on Amazon. It's my show is called Carrie Champion on Sports, and I'm still working at CNN as well, but I'm looking for a producer and it's a Monday through Friday show and so many people are afraid because it's new, and I was like, I gotta take risk. I gotta start a new company. I don't want to. I'm tired of the grind of building myself and keeping myself relevant. Like you said, it's a grind, let me go, says somewhere. I'll do it like I'm done. Let me make it easier. So I totally get what you're saying. I do believe, though, don more than ever today and especially since you, I think you and many other I did it when I was at ESPN. Jamal did it. Um you know, you see Tiffany Cross and jewlry you doing it. They are such an onus for people who are black to be on air and speak their truth, and they're still feels like there's such a pushback from the powers that be for trying to win over people who just don't want to be won over. And by that I mean the the and I don't even want to get into the political aspects of it, but the moderate, the person who Dr King said, is the most dangerous. Those who don't show the empathy, or don't speak up for us, or who stay quiet while they're watching what's happening in our society today. We didn't We didn't fill in the gap. How difficult is it for you to to know that this is every day I sit in this chair and let an issue come up of race, I'm gonna say something, and I'm gonna be attacked, and I don't necessarily know the people who are in control of this company understand where I'm coming from. How uncomfortable does that make you feel? If at all? Um it is? But I've learned to live in discomfort because the people who came before me, their whole mission was to disrupt other people's comfort. That's what the whole idea of protests in the civil rights movement that was, that's what protests are all about. It is disrupting people's comfort to get them to become aware of an issue. Otherwise people get too comfortable and it becomes status quo. So um, I have been especially you know, I said, who knows how long this is going to last? Who gets these opportunities? And so while it is, that is the space that I've chosen to operate. And and when I get too comfortable, even as I got too comfortable at night, I think about it and I look at myself and I say, maybe you're a little bit too comfortable. And if that does that look like when everything is like going great, when you're not being a disruptor, when you're going along with the status quo, and the status quo is not necessarily great for everyone. And so just because I'm doing well, it doesn't mean other people are are are doing out. Doesn't mean that I shouldn't stand up for other people. When I am doing well, and when I am in that degree of comfort where oh, this is all great, that means that I need to focus more intently on helping others who aren't getting to live where I am, and quite honestly, in a position of privilege. I am in this position of privilege because I was able to live in discomfort and fight to be able to get here. And so once one milestone is achieved, then you move on and you do another milesone, and another mouth someone and another mouth soon, and you keep moving yourself out into discomfort as you see fit right as much as you can take. And then pretty soon that becomes the norm and you realize, Okay, well this wasn't so bad, so now let me break this boundary, let me crack, put a crack in this glass ceiling, let me try this. And so I'm in a position now, quite honestly, where I tell everybody what it is like. Even my producers now feel like this is great, and I just look at and saying this is not gonna work. You can try it, We'll try it. But then you're gonna have to know when to cut your losses, because after a while that you keep pushing for something because you think it's gonna work. You think it's gonna work, and keep pushing. I know it can Workingna, Sometimes in the beginning you know this ain't gonna work, and so why don't now before we get too involved in It's like a relationship when people say, we're not gonna so before this just keeps going on, at least move on. Yeah, have conversations with people who are in high positions of authority every single almost every single day. So to think like, you know, I'm gonna sit there and and interview a president of the United States or other country or you know, Ukraine or wherever whoever it may be, or a dictator or a desk but whatever it is, and then I'm not going to hold the people account to account who I work for. I mean, you've got another thing coming that that's I do what I do? Amen? And what and what what a privilege that you have created and you have set the tone for I often say being the first isn't easy, and you are one of the first. It's just not easy. I can't I I can't underscore enough though for people who are paying attention, you are pure joy when I see you, like and I don't know you have bad moves, and I know you can be mad at somebody, but the way you treat your staff, the way you talk to people, it's unheard of in our business with people who have something about when they're red light comes on, it turns people into egomaniacs a lot of times. And the the privilege that you have and the privilege that you demand is two different things. And I totally appreciate you for that. Thank you. I love in a state of gratitude. Everything you do, you do, you stay pleasant, pleasant. Every champion and care every champion is to be a champion, a champion and carry champion and carry chapion a champion and carry chappion and carry champion sports. And then the saying connected work, carry champion and carry champion is to do what's bring out a champion. They carry champion and they champion and they welcome back to Naked. Don Lemon is here with us and we get into what I what I think is the best franchise that he's a part of. That is the New Year's Eve Special on CNN. If you haven't watched it, please tune in set you DVR so people still do that because it is good. Don Lemon back on Naked. I do want to get into something that just gives me and and and this is a friend of yours, Jamal. It brings us so much joy after every New Year's Eve special. We spend the morning looking at your clips and we laugh. We A little own secret that I will share with our listeners is that when we were going to work at CNN Plus, we've tried to get in our contract that we do the New Year's Eve special with Don. Like we literally requested that. That was something that Jamale and I were like, if only we could do that, Like that was gonna give that, just give us life, That's all we wanted. Like we did it. This is the truth, this is what I'm laughing. They were like, we can't guarantee that you can show up, and I was like, yeah, no, if we're drinking our show, we want to drink with Don. And they were like, hey, you know the human hat, which I get. And my agent was like, I can't. I just don't think we can get that to work, and and so on and so forth. And I'm all like, well, that sucks because you have you understand the franchise. I even came back and talked about it on the podcast. Do you understand the franchise you've created with that New Year's Eve show and the joy that you the literal joy you bring us. Okay, thank you for that, But talk about discomfort like I wake up every New Year's Day and go, oh I knew, Oh my god, everything right, you did everything right. Here's the thing. A lot of that is I'm actually not probably drinking as much as people think. Am I having a good time? Yes? Am I, like you know, space drunk? No, I mean it's a lot of the same drink carrying around. It's me, it's my personality coming out. I can be the life of the party without being drunk. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, I don't think you're drunk. I just love that you're just as when I say the freest you're at home talking like it's me and you. It's like, I love every moment of it. Thank you, And I hope that the new regime understands that I would love to be able to continue that franchise because I feel like if it's the one night of the year where everybody can be who they are, everybody can show a personality, everybody can be human. Is New Year's Eve. Listen. As long as there's not, you know, a war going on or something some sort of crazy serious news story, then why not Journalists are people too? We have fun. We like to, you know, party on New Year's Eve and the whold country. I think it's a great time for people to go, Ah, this year was hard or whatever, and I'll take a drink and celebrate the that it's over and let's toast the new year. And you do it well and it doesn't take away from your credibility. But what it is is pure joy. And I don't care what anyone says. That is a time and we can laugh and have a good were We deserve that as a country, and you are providing us with so much. It was legit in our contract and they were like, hey, we can't. We can't guarantee the special. They were like, we don't know what that looks like. There's so many people who want to do the show. I was like, this has become and they do doesn't even understand it. It's like musty TV. Because I ain't nobody doing. You get past certain a drein doing that. No New Years are You're traveling at all? You have? Yeah, I don't. I ain't going out. I know how to get drunk in the house, so I but that's what we had we had talked about and then in my mind, I said, I really appreciate because you know, because you're not trying to give us, You're you're not even trying to be extra, You're just being. And I'm like, this is really You're just being You're just beating, and I'm like, I'm here for all of it. Um. I do say this though, and I and I mean it. I don't want to get too emotional because I know you've got to go in a few I'm giving I'll get you out of here in a few minutes. I don't like the way you are treated. Don't like the way that you're bullied online. And while it doesn't bother you, and while you have been able to handle it with so much grace, I do want to make it be known that I think the culture and the community and yes, our folks have your back, but I do think we need to be more vocal about how we support you. Um, because no one deserved to be jumped on TV every single day. No one deserves to be called gay, or the effort or all the things that no one deserves to be attacked genuinely because you're just trying to do your job and I understand why, but we are this country as you have eloquently said, is more racist than ever openly racist, rather because it's always been there, but more openly racist. And you have been able to persevere in spite of there's not one person who would think that you were racist. There's not one person to say okay. And there's this thing of well he's pro black, Well what's wrong with that? If you are? So? What? But I I am also these other things. I have lived much life. I am also in addition to being this, that is well, Um, how would even if you don't ask for what does support look like for you? Besides the thank you? Well, it would be great. Look, I'm not how do I say this without sounding like an egotist or because you said like I don't care if you have me or not? I mean I do. Look, it's nice. It would be nice to get your flowers while you're alive. You know what I'm saying. Um, There's hasn't been anyone I don't think that has been in the position that I'm meant to hold Um a show uh in cable from time in the way that I did. I don't think there's anyone in history that's done yet. Um. And but no one there's not an acknowledgement. I do think this is a weird thing. I don't know if you but I do think that there is you know, like I'm not. I don't know should I say this, say it? And if you don't like what I say, okay, So I'm not. Like, I do think there's some like light skinned sort of thing that Alan Kaeperni have to deal with, Like people don't think that I'm black enough, and then when I you know, when I am, you know, because to the people who don't like black people, it doesn't matter what he of black you are. Um. And also like, you know, I'm not you know, maybe I'm not. I feel like sometimes I don't people don't think I'm urban enough, and so they don't view me as necessarily being black enough, which is a little bit weird to me. But whatever, I don't know if that's fair enough. But that's I think about that. And um, so I think that I perhaps get my flowers in real time if that were people, if I was browner and more urban. But I'm not going to change who I am or what I am because I'm looking to get, um the acceptance or approval of anyone. I don't care who that is, by the way beautifully said, and and and everyone at one point of their in their lives, especially if you're black with a little bit of success, always has to answer question, am I black enough? Or has? We must prove ourselves. This the only culture that penalizes you for success. Um, and we gotta work on that. Don Lemon, thank you so much for joining me on Naked. Go back and make some money so that I can come and visit and hang out with you. Okay, that's it. Yeah, well, I look, I I wanted to give you thirty minutes. It's been thirty minutes. I I you gotta get back and go to work. I didn't want to harass you. We want you on the morning show. So I have to figure out how to do that. And when it starts November one at six am, So please tune in and you guys, tell me you know I can. I can take it. Tell me what you think, Tell me you think it could be better. Tell me what you think that we should scrub, that we should do or what have you. But I would love to because of our chemistry. I'm gonna try to get you into do a test. I would I would love it but even more importantly, I'm supporting you. I'm so damn proud of you. Um, I have nothing but great things to say about you. And I also know what it takes to do what you do, and not necessarily that I've had that at that level, but I know what you have to maneuver and deal with day in and day out, and you handle it with so much grace and so continue to be grace and class sonofy. Thank you, thank you. That goes right back at you. Okay, thank you, thank you, thank you for having me on your So here's the biggest takeaway for those who watch CNN and think Don is being demoted and moved to mornings. He has said it is his choice. On this podcast. I'm hearing for the very first time it is his choice. Management didn't come in and say we tied to you and you did this and there's a scandal surrounding him leaving his own show at night. In fact, he was told by new management, the new president of the network, who has created great morning shows, we need you. We need you in the morning. It's that simple, because now it gives you an opportunity to do something that you haven't done thus far. In your career. And he went into the night because he wanted to, not because they made him. And he did say that he would have made it really crystal clear, like he's very transparent. Um, hey, this is what happened, and I'll pun intended. He has a book called Transparent, right, but he's very transparent about what's going on. And we would have known if this was a forced move. It's his choice, and I congratulate him for for making his own choice and really ignoring the critics. He's been able to do that in a way in which I can only appreciate from Afar, because I'll be he says, don't respond, I'd be like yo, mama, yr mama, and your daddy, my old child, yourself, always talking about somebody's parents. Meanwhile, I asked that we continue to support him because what he's doing is probably more difficult than any of us really understand. I know how tough it is to walk into a corporate situation and battle just to say two or three words on television once a week, and then you turn around and you pick up your phone, and then you're battling people who are saying you're not doing enough for the culture and you are this, and you are that. It could wear you down, It could break you down mentally. And I say this over and over again. His spirit is so light and easy, probably because he's making money. But at the same time, I don't care who you are after while some of that stuff will just take you out. And thus far has not support Don Lemon, regardless of your political affiliations. Support people who work hard and who got it from the mud. With that being said, support Naked and me and my staff, and we appreciate you. We'll be back next week.