For me, the year twenty twenty presents in alchemy a highlights and the lights. The pandemic and the ensuing shutdown of the country were alarming, yet simultaneously there was this racial renaissance. It prompted this nation to confront its ugly history of white versus black. And while the world was working to find its way back to normal, there were two young women who had graduated high school that very year, preparing to embark on their collegiate and athletic careers. Both highly touted players from two different backgrounds, two different playing styles, but arguably the same agenda to be the best. Because of COVID and different restrictions across the country, and if we're honest, lack of interest, the world wasn't focused on women's college basketball, So for the Masses, Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese seemingly became famous overnight. However, as we find out in this series, Kitlyn Clark and Angel Reese were super novas in the making. The Masses were just late to the discovery. Clark and Reese clearly represent so much more than basketball. They represent resilience, possibility, and resistance. There I say, their only court rivalry is what we all needed to push this country out of archaic archetypes that surround the game and filter the way we see women's sports in general. Clark and Reese have expanded the horizons of the game in ways that my humble mind never envisioned. So how did we reach this point? Allow me to tell you a story.

For me, the year twenty twenty presents in alchemy a highlights and the lights. The pandemic and the ensuing shutdown of the country were alarming, yet simultaneously there was this racial renaissance. It prompted this nation to confront its ugly history of white versus black. And while the world was working to find its way back to normal, there were two young women who had graduated high school that very year, preparing to embark on their collegiate and athletic careers. Both highly touted players from two different backgrounds, two different playing styles, but arguably the same agenda to be the best. Because of COVID and different restrictions across the country, and if we're honest, lack of interest, the world wasn't focused on women's college basketball, So for the Masses, Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese seemingly became famous overnight. However, as we find out in this series, Kitlyn Clark and Angel Reese were super novas in the making. The Masses were just late to the discovery. Clark and Reese clearly represent so much more than basketball. They represent resilience, possibility, and resistance. There I say, their only court rivalry is what we all needed to push this country out of archaic archetypes that surround the game and filter the way we see women's sports in general. Clark and Reese have expanded the horizons of the game in ways that my humble mind never envisioned. So how did we reach this point? Allow me to tell you a story.

The Superman needed Lex Luthor, the Batman needed the Joker. And I don't mean to put Angel Rees in some kind of villain this role because I don't consider her a villain.

The Superman needed Lex Luthor, the Batman needed the Joker. And I don't mean to put Angel Rees in some kind of villain this role because I don't consider her a villain.

But I think every great player needs a foil.

But I think every great player needs a foil.

The reason why we watching women's basketball is not.

The reason why we watching women's basketball is not.

Just because of one person.

Just because of one person.

It's because of me too.

It's because of me too.

And you know, I don't think there should be any criticism for what she did. I honestly didn't see it when the game was going on.

And you know, I don't think there should be any criticism for what she did. I honestly didn't see it when the game was going on.

But the story Rory became more compelling, and the desire to watch and talk about it became more compelling when she had a foil. Angel won a national championship. She has four million plus followers. She's at the met Galop Sizza and Meg thee Stallion want to come stick courtside and watch.

But the story Rory became more compelling, and the desire to watch and talk about it became more compelling when she had a foil. Angel won a national championship. She has four million plus followers. She's at the met Galop Sizza and Meg thee Stallion want to come stick courtside and watch.

Her naked sports.

Her naked sports.

The Making of a Rivalry A six episode docu series that explores the media frenzy surrounding two super novas and Kitlin Clark and Angel Reese. I'm your host, Carrie Champion, and welcome to the making of a rivalry.

The Making of a Rivalry A six episode docu series that explores the media frenzy surrounding two super novas and Kitlin Clark and Angel Reese. I'm your host, Carrie Champion, and welcome to the making of a rivalry.

Typically, what it takes is for there to be a rivalry, a moment, a star player that comes along that makes us think differently about the game and gets everybody sort of galvanized behind either a sport, a player, a moment.

Typically, what it takes is for there to be a rivalry, a moment, a star player that comes along that makes us think differently about the game and gets everybody sort of galvanized behind either a sport, a player, a moment.

It's always something.

It's always something.

You know, there's been watershed moments in like Major League Baseball. You could say when integration occurred. You could say when Hank Aaron broke bay Brews home run record.

You know, there's been watershed moments in like Major League Baseball. You could say when integration occurred. You could say when Hank Aaron broke bay Brews home run record.

I'll run Champion at all time, a Henri era.

I'll run Champion at all time, a Henri era.

There's been these moments that you can just recall off the top of your head that you felt like the sport itself was ascending to a higher place. And so we've been able to experience that.

There's been these moments that you can just recall off the top of your head that you felt like the sport itself was ascending to a higher place. And so we've been able to experience that.

Jamel Hill covered women's basketball in the beginning of her career, and I call her a grizzly media veteran, and she says that this moment in women's basketball has been building. But Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, well, those two they set off this explosion of interest.

Jamel Hill covered women's basketball in the beginning of her career, and I call her a grizzly media veteran, and she says that this moment in women's basketball has been building. But Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, well, those two they set off this explosion of interest.

This moment in women's basketball is shape shifting.

This moment in women's basketball is shape shifting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think a lot of us who have covered women's basketball and women's sports in particular, I think there's other sports you could point to that moment when it happened where you saw there was a decided shifting move that took the league from one place while growing, but to an exponential growth. And I'm just really happy I was alive as someone whose first professional beat was the WNBA when I was a young cub reporter. So what I would say is that, yeah, it's shape shifting. It's changing not just the league, it's changing culture. It's changing the way we look at female athletes.

I think a lot of us who have covered women's basketball and women's sports in particular, I think there's other sports you could point to that moment when it happened where you saw there was a decided shifting move that took the league from one place while growing, but to an exponential growth. And I'm just really happy I was alive as someone whose first professional beat was the WNBA when I was a young cub reporter. So what I would say is that, yeah, it's shape shifting. It's changing not just the league, it's changing culture. It's changing the way we look at female athletes.

I think the.

I think the.

Last I would say, the last three to five years, it was it was a steady increase and then it was like boom, the rocket hit.

Last I would say, the last three to five years, it was it was a steady increase and then it was like boom, the rocket hit.

The WNBA is in his twenty eighth season. But if you start to think about it, some would say it feels as if history is repeating itself. Jamel reminds us that the NBA, you know, where the men play, wasn't always a ratings juggernaut.

The WNBA is in his twenty eighth season. But if you start to think about it, some would say it feels as if history is repeating itself. Jamel reminds us that the NBA, you know, where the men play, wasn't always a ratings juggernaut.

People often forget just how poorly the NBA was thought of. You know when before Magic and Burg kind of took the lead to another level. You're talking about you know, finals games being on tape delay, David Stern having to deal with the reputation that the NBA was full of junkies and like they had a massive drug problem in the league, Like they had a lot of stuff going on, and really they were very concerned whether or not to be financially solving Magic and Bird. When they came along, they weren't ready. I mean, there was so simulate. They weren't ready for that, but they adapted and they adjusted.

People often forget just how poorly the NBA was thought of. You know when before Magic and Burg kind of took the lead to another level. You're talking about you know, finals games being on tape delay, David Stern having to deal with the reputation that the NBA was full of junkies and like they had a massive drug problem in the league, Like they had a lot of stuff going on, and really they were very concerned whether or not to be financially solving Magic and Bird. When they came along, they weren't ready. I mean, there was so simulate. They weren't ready for that, but they adapted and they adjusted.

You do use the word detonated when she arrived. What is it about Caitlyn Clark that changed the landscape of women's basketball?

You do use the word detonated when she arrived. What is it about Caitlyn Clark that changed the landscape of women's basketball?

So it's a combination of factors.

So it's a combination of factors.

And I do hope people focus on the fact I said combination, okay, because I have realized been talking about her in the past, if people only hear the trigger word.

And I do hope people focus on the fact I said combination, okay, because I have realized been talking about her in the past, if people only hear the trigger word.

After the break, Jamel will break down some of those trigger words and explain this new fandom for the women's game, the making of a rivalry, Caitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese back in a moment, I don't.

After the break, Jamel will break down some of those trigger words and explain this new fandom for the women's game, the making of a rivalry, Caitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese back in a moment, I don't.

Really hear the noise.

Really hear the noise.

I just come here and play basketball every single day, and that's what I focused on.

I just come here and play basketball every single day, and that's what I focused on.

I want to personally think Caitlyn Clark for lifting up our sport.

I want to personally think Caitlyn Clark for lifting up our sport.

Don Staley isn't wrong. Caitlyn Clark has lifted the sport, and it was good to hear her say it. But it's not just because Caitlyn's a great player. There are so many other factors that have been ignored.

Don Staley isn't wrong. Caitlyn Clark has lifted the sport, and it was good to hear her say it. But it's not just because Caitlyn's a great player. There are so many other factors that have been ignored.

She is playing like Steph Curry. It's her whole narrative, it's her whole story. It's like the way she plays, the style. Coming from Iowa. And while Iowa basketball has its own culture and it certainly have had other players, but I think when you come from Iowa, there's an underdog nature to that, Like you're not from LA you're not from you know, New York, a known basketball entity. You're from Iowa, right, And that's a place that from a national level, isn't always seen, it's overlooked. It's in the Midwest, right, So where she is. And then she's straight, and she's white, and all of those factors. Her talent leads first, and she broke a lot of very important records. And then once you start getting to the subgroup and the nuance, you see how that all appeals. But when it hit the fan is when suddenly there's a Fox, right, And I think that's why people make them Harrison so much.

She is playing like Steph Curry. It's her whole narrative, it's her whole story. It's like the way she plays, the style. Coming from Iowa. And while Iowa basketball has its own culture and it certainly have had other players, but I think when you come from Iowa, there's an underdog nature to that, Like you're not from LA you're not from you know, New York, a known basketball entity. You're from Iowa, right, And that's a place that from a national level, isn't always seen, it's overlooked. It's in the Midwest, right, So where she is. And then she's straight, and she's white, and all of those factors. Her talent leads first, and she broke a lot of very important records. And then once you start getting to the subgroup and the nuance, you see how that all appeals. But when it hit the fan is when suddenly there's a Fox, right, And I think that's why people make them Harrison so much.

To Bird and Magic, they needed each other.

To Bird and Magic, they needed each other.

You know, it's like the Superman needed Lex Luthor, the Batman needed the Joker. And I don't mean to put to put Angel Rees in some kind of villain's role because I don't consider her a villain.

You know, it's like the Superman needed Lex Luthor, the Batman needed the Joker. And I don't mean to put to put Angel Rees in some kind of villain's role because I don't consider her a villain.

But I think every great player needs a foil. They need a foil, right, and.

But I think every great player needs a foil. They need a foil, right, and.

You know, a foil meaning someone to say, yeah, you're great, but I'm just as good.

You know, a foil meaning someone to say, yeah, you're great, but I'm just as good.

I have just as many tricks.

I have just as many tricks.

Correct a foil that can take something from you that people think you deserve. Like Magic needed Bird to take things from him, to take Rookie of the Year, to take championships. He needed that to become a great player, and he talks about it all the time. Larry Bird needed the same thing. Why what did Magic take from Bird yo championships? I mean they were both duking it out for who was going to be the best player of that generation, and you know they're the two most successful franchises in NBA history.

Correct a foil that can take something from you that people think you deserve. Like Magic needed Bird to take things from him, to take Rookie of the Year, to take championships. He needed that to become a great player, and he talks about it all the time. Larry Bird needed the same thing. Why what did Magic take from Bird yo championships? I mean they were both duking it out for who was going to be the best player of that generation, and you know they're the two most successful franchises in NBA history.

They needed that. You know, Yan needs Yang all right, and.

They needed that. You know, Yan needs Yang all right, and.

So I ten twins.

So I ten twins.

Yeah, shout out to the right, like it's like you, Drake needs Kendrick. Kendrick needs Drake.

Yeah, shout out to the right, like it's like you, Drake needs Kendrick. Kendrick needs Drake.

Drake needs Kendrake. I'm saying Drake needs Kendrack.

Drake needs Kendrake. I'm saying Drake needs Kendrack.

This is what it takes. It's like if you don't.

This is what it takes. It's like if you don't.

Just as a reminder, yes, sir.

Just as a reminder, yes, sir.

You need somebody who's gonna say, like I, I gotta take it from him, and you know, I'll relate it back to your favorite player, am I Isaiah Thomas.

You need somebody who's gonna say, like I, I gotta take it from him, and you know, I'll relate it back to your favorite player, am I Isaiah Thomas.

Now, if anybody knows either of us that is false. Magic is Mike is my favorite. Kobe is my favorite. But if we talking about that eron, magic is my favorite. But Isaiah he needed magic, he did, and vice versa. Yes he needed he needed that foil that was gonna get him there.

Now, if anybody knows either of us that is false. Magic is Mike is my favorite. Kobe is my favorite. But if we talking about that eron, magic is my favorite. But Isaiah he needed magic, he did, and vice versa. Yes he needed he needed that foil that was gonna get him there.

Which is why people are like, who was Magic's.

Which is why people are like, who was Magic's.

And Michael Jordan needed the pistols?

And Michael Jordan needed the pistols?

Excuse me, Michael Jordan's Who was Michael Jordan's foil? In real time? It was for how long? In a real way?

Excuse me, Michael Jordan's Who was Michael Jordan's foil? In real time? It was for how long? In a real way?

Well?

Well?

See, the thing is is like, you know, because of the way we were beating Jordan down, you can all look it up.

See, the thing is is like, you know, because of the way we were beating Jordan down, you can all look it up.

People. It's like, I'm not making it, okay, you did beat Michael Jordan down.

People. It's like, I'm not making it, okay, you did beat Michael Jordan down.

Okay, okay, okay, Well, once he got past, y'all was no looking back.

Okay, okay, okay, Well, once he got past, y'all was no looking back.

It didn't.

It didn't.

It wasn't like y'all had a dynasty. Y'all didn't have a dona. It wasn't like y'all got seventeen chips. You don't have seventeen banners hanging in your arena in Detroit. Okay, what are you at?

It wasn't like y'all had a dynasty. Y'all didn't have a dona. It wasn't like y'all got seventeen chips. You don't have seventeen banners hanging in your arena in Detroit. Okay, what are you at?

Four?

Four?

Six?

Six?

We have three? Oh?

We have three? Oh?

Thank you?

Thank you?

And I was I was being kind, but okay, that's fine, But we still got seventeen. We should So what you're telling me is we should have nineteen. We should have nineteen, is what you're telling me. We gave y'all two just for charity. It was rigged, fake news.

And I was I was being kind, but okay, that's fine, But we still got seventeen. We should So what you're telling me is we should have nineteen. We should have nineteen, is what you're telling me. We gave y'all two just for charity. It was rigged, fake news.

It was faith in championships out for a franchise Boston.

It was faith in championships out for a franchise Boston.

What it is they got us this year? God bless y'all.

What it is they got us this year? God bless y'all.

But we'll be backed bird.

But we'll be backed bird.

Okay, he needed they need.

Okay, he needed they need.

It's not about us, it's not, but it is about us.

It's not about us, it's not, but it is about us.

The whole point is the beauty of sports is seeing the athletes go on the Jerney Peyton Manning needed Tom Brady, Okay, I mean well, considering how well he.

The whole point is the beauty of sports is seeing the athletes go on the Jerney Peyton Manning needed Tom Brady, Okay, I mean well, considering how well he.

Needed Eli Manning. Yeah, we gotta keep Tom.

Needed Eli Manning. Yeah, we gotta keep Tom.

But if we start, if we, if we it's almost like San Detroit needed the Lakers. They didn't and so we have Boston Celtics and we still do.

But if we start, if we, if we it's almost like San Detroit needed the Lakers. They didn't and so we have Boston Celtics and we still do.

You need something that creates the inertia and the tension and the thing is now. And I think both players, even though they played different positions, both Angel Res and Kaylin like, I would not believe either of them if they said they were not paying attention to what the other one was doing. Especially you know, we go through that stretch where Angel has like.

You need something that creates the inertia and the tension and the thing is now. And I think both players, even though they played different positions, both Angel Res and Kaylin like, I would not believe either of them if they said they were not paying attention to what the other one was doing. Especially you know, we go through that stretch where Angel has like.

Double double on double double on something that Caylen is uh.

Double double on double double on something that Caylen is uh.

You know, I think the last regular season game is we're recording this. She had a w big record nineteen assists.

You know, I think the last regular season game is we're recording this. She had a w big record nineteen assists.

Like they're they're ever watching, They're topping.

Like they're they're ever watching, They're topping.

Each other, they're watching.

Each other, they're watching.

They're absolutely And by the way, if they say they're not competing in anyone who's watching this, suggesting that we're pitting them against another, then they shouldn't be playing pro like because as a professional your job is to compete at the highest levels.

They're absolutely And by the way, if they say they're not competing in anyone who's watching this, suggesting that we're pitting them against another, then they shouldn't be playing pro like because as a professional your job is to compete at the highest levels.

You're you're checking what other people.

You're you're checking what other people.

Are doing, and you're also wanting to be better because you need to your point, it's a foil in what she needs. Angel Rees, how would you describe her as a foil?

Are doing, and you're also wanting to be better because you need to your point, it's a foil in what she needs. Angel Rees, how would you describe her as a foil?

I mean, I think I think Angel the girl, the what I love about watching her play, and even even her demeanor in general, like she is a writer or die Like I look at how her teammates respond to her, and even though she's a rookie and they're senior and there's veteran leadership that she has on our team. I look at the relationship she has with Tea Spoon, who is and was an amazing player, one of the grittiest dynamic players the league that has ever had. Like te Spoon didn't play no games right, and it's not surprising to me that she's like an amazing coach. But looking at the relationship she has with Kennedy, Carter and Cardosa and like all the players, even the vets on that team, you could tell you can even tell this at LSU, like she is the emotional thermometer. It's her and the way she carries herself. She still got a lot to learn, of course, but she plays with a fire and a passion. Every single play that's hard to teach is very hard to teach.

I mean, I think I think Angel the girl, the what I love about watching her play, and even even her demeanor in general, like she is a writer or die Like I look at how her teammates respond to her, and even though she's a rookie and they're senior and there's veteran leadership that she has on our team. I look at the relationship she has with Tea Spoon, who is and was an amazing player, one of the grittiest dynamic players the league that has ever had. Like te Spoon didn't play no games right, and it's not surprising to me that she's like an amazing coach. But looking at the relationship she has with Kennedy, Carter and Cardosa and like all the players, even the vets on that team, you could tell you can even tell this at LSU, like she is the emotional thermometer. It's her and the way she carries herself. She still got a lot to learn, of course, but she plays with a fire and a passion. Every single play that's hard to teach is very hard to teach.

Kelsey Plum, the two time w NBA champion with the Las Vegas Aces, gives her take on Angel Reese.

Kelsey Plum, the two time w NBA champion with the Las Vegas Aces, gives her take on Angel Reese.

People feel insecure, and you have like a strong black woman that's confident in herself and knows what she's talking about, and she's just saying what she feels. I think a lot of people were like, WHOA, Like, how do I feel about this?

People feel insecure, and you have like a strong black woman that's confident in herself and knows what she's talking about, and she's just saying what she feels. I think a lot of people were like, WHOA, Like, how do I feel about this?

You never walk away from seeing her play and think she ain't given enough. You never walk away thinking that about her. So it's like the tenacity like just jumps off the page to me. And I think as she figures out her offensive identity, she gonna be.

You never walk away from seeing her play and think she ain't given enough. You never walk away thinking that about her. So it's like the tenacity like just jumps off the page to me. And I think as she figures out her offensive identity, she gonna be.

A real problem.

A real problem.

She already a problem, now she gonna be a real problem.

She already a problem, now she gonna be a real problem.

And she's somebody you could definitely see when I mean when an MVP one day, like getting all the awards and now I think people want to see how this turns out. They want to see between her and Caitlyn, who wins the championship first, who gets an MVP first, who gets.

And she's somebody you could definitely see when I mean when an MVP one day, like getting all the awards and now I think people want to see how this turns out. They want to see between her and Caitlyn, who wins the championship first, who gets an MVP first, who gets.

Rooky of the Year. I mean, we're we're in that right now.

Rooky of the Year. I mean, we're we're in that right now.

It's like, yeah, and you talk to players once they're out of the league, and then they're they're able to be more honest about how they felt in these moments again, like they're gonna probably give us the whole Oh, you know, it's great to be considered like no, no, no, no, they're trying to beat each other for this awards.

It's like, yeah, and you talk to players once they're out of the league, and then they're they're able to be more honest about how they felt in these moments again, like they're gonna probably give us the whole Oh, you know, it's great to be considered like no, no, no, no, they're trying to beat each other for this awards.

I think let's talk about that. Let's talk about this rivalry.

I think let's talk about that. Let's talk about this rivalry.

People may be afraid of that word and how how the story will be couched, but the way in which you just described it a moment ago was that there is a need, there's a need for them to have someone to push them, to make them better, and that if that person is your rival, then you will be the best.

People may be afraid of that word and how how the story will be couched, but the way in which you just described it a moment ago was that there is a need, there's a need for them to have someone to push them, to make them better, and that if that person is your rival, then you will be the best.

That's great, that's fine.

That's great, that's fine.

You will always end up in in rare air if you find yourself constantly competing against the best. There's nothing wrong with that word rivalry. To me, what is it about the new fans that need this rivalry, this divisiveness, this divide? Is it the is it the temperature of the country that we live in right now?

You will always end up in in rare air if you find yourself constantly competing against the best. There's nothing wrong with that word rivalry. To me, what is it about the new fans that need this rivalry, this divisiveness, this divide? Is it the is it the temperature of the country that we live in right now?

Yeah, I mean everything feels very divided. But you know, I don't know. I think that the New fans the I think for especially for people who may have been watching a little bit longer than some of them, they come in with such aggressive hot takes like no, I mean It's like the first that you start watching the NBA and you say Nbawards is the greatest NBA player ever, And it's like, what.

Yeah, I mean everything feels very divided. But you know, I don't know. I think that the New fans the I think for especially for people who may have been watching a little bit longer than some of them, they come in with such aggressive hot takes like no, I mean It's like the first that you start watching the NBA and you say Nbawards is the greatest NBA player ever, And it's like, what.

Like, you know, so you can watch the five minutes like.

Like, you know, so you can watch the five minutes like.

Sir Right's like so they mam When.

Sir Right's like so they mam When.

They do stuff like that, it's just kind of like it grates the nerves a bit. But I'm happy they're there and I do feel like and I felt this way during the course of the season. As it became more about ball, a lot of that calm down, right, as it became less about the drama, a lot of that calm down. But what I would say, not just with new fans, but I would say sports fans in general. I think where they need to be, where they need to evolve, is in how women compete. Because it's amazing to me that the same thing they clutch their little pearls over in the WBA, they eagerly cheer.

They do stuff like that, it's just kind of like it grates the nerves a bit. But I'm happy they're there and I do feel like and I felt this way during the course of the season. As it became more about ball, a lot of that calm down, right, as it became less about the drama, a lot of that calm down. But what I would say, not just with new fans, but I would say sports fans in general. I think where they need to be, where they need to evolve, is in how women compete. Because it's amazing to me that the same thing they clutch their little pearls over in the WBA, they eagerly cheer.

For it to see men do right.

For it to see men do right.

They cheer for the rivalry, they cheer for the drama, they cheer for the pettiness.

They cheer for the rivalry, they cheer for the drama, they cheer for the pettiness.

I'm like, I see it all the time. They cheer for it.

I'm like, I see it all the time. They cheer for it.

One of the reasons I brought up Anthony Edwards, one of the reasons people love him is because he just.

One of the reasons I brought up Anthony Edwards, one of the reasons people love him is because he just.

Don't give it you no way, you don't care.

Don't give it you no way, you don't care.

I mean that may have got to the Olympics this first of all he said, oh no, I'm the star player.

I mean that may have got to the Olympics this first of all he said, oh no, I'm the star player.

Yeah, I'll still number one out. Y'all might look at it different.

Yeah, I'll still number one out. Y'all might look at it different.

I don't look here at different.

I don't look here at different.

I'm like, who else Bron still here?

I'm like, who else Bron still here?

Right?

Right?

Yeah, he was like.

Yeah, he was like.

No, no, no, no, no, like this is my team.

No, no, no, no, no, like this is my team.

Well that fits in is society.

Well that fits in is society.

Culture has a society has a way in which women are supposed to conduct themselves, even on the basketball chort And so you have noticed that the labeling of the rivalry has such a negative connotation when it shouldn't, because we love a rivalry in the NBA and it's celebrated.

Culture has a society has a way in which women are supposed to conduct themselves, even on the basketball chort And so you have noticed that the labeling of the rivalry has such a negative connotation when it shouldn't, because we love a rivalry in the NBA and it's celebrated.

In fact, what's the number one complaint you hear about in the NBA. They're too friendly, not enough rivalries.

In fact, what's the number one complaint you hear about in the NBA. They're too friendly, not enough rivalries.

Boat hanging out exactly, all the good things.

Boat hanging out exactly, all the good things.

And they all trained together.

And they all trained together.

My my NBA.

My my NBA.

They weren't fransactly, they would never never.

They weren't fransactly, they would never never.

They can stand each other. It was beating Michael Jordan's down Heaven for bed.

They can stand each other. It was beating Michael Jordan's down Heaven for bed.

And then the ladies, you know, they engage, and I mean because they're competitors. Competitors too, they show something similar. It's like, what about the children.

And then the ladies, you know, they engage, and I mean because they're competitors. Competitors too, they show something similar. It's like, what about the children.

Okay, that'd be all right, send them home, you know what I'm saying, because if it if we were at an NBA game, You're like, that's how it's played, Fellas, It's very much. It's very much how if you have a son and a daughter. Your son can stay out all night, but you don't know where your daughter is. Sheese, Yeah, you're going.

Okay, that'd be all right, send them home, you know what I'm saying, because if it if we were at an NBA game, You're like, that's how it's played, Fellas, It's very much. It's very much how if you have a son and a daughter. Your son can stay out all night, but you don't know where your daughter is. Sheese, Yeah, you're going.

To trigger me.

To trigger me.

One of the biggest complaints about the new fans of the w n b A is the slow acceptance to allow women to compete.

One of the biggest complaints about the new fans of the w n b A is the slow acceptance to allow women to compete.

But it's true.

But it's true.

It's like they want women to, you know, to on the basketball court to sit around and braid each other's hair and talk about you know, relationships and and and hold hands and sway like that's I'm like, I don't get this. It's been a physically Yes, you as a rookie, you gonna get it. Like I don't care who you are, you gonna get it because they want to see all this fanfare you come in.

It's like they want women to, you know, to on the basketball court to sit around and braid each other's hair and talk about you know, relationships and and and hold hands and sway like that's I'm like, I don't get this. It's been a physically Yes, you as a rookie, you gonna get it. Like I don't care who you are, you gonna get it because they want to see all this fanfare you come in.

He is it real? Can you do it?

He is it real? Can you do it?

So when you watch people complain about the way in which Caitlyn Clark might be being treated on the court, do you find yourself helping people Remember a w NBA of yesteryear.

So when you watch people complain about the way in which Caitlyn Clark might be being treated on the court, do you find yourself helping people Remember a w NBA of yesteryear.

Oh yeah, I mean like I remember when the Kennedy Carter when she gave Caitlin the I mean, I feel like I'm diminishing it by calling it a herd follow. I mean, it was a cheap shot shot. It was not a basketball player. It was not a basketball player. But I had to remind him. I was like, Okay, you know there was maybe. I mean, I mean, for sure one of the greatest rookies the WNBA has ever had. And some people will be like, the greatest rookie the WNBA has ever had.

Oh yeah, I mean like I remember when the Kennedy Carter when she gave Caitlin the I mean, I feel like I'm diminishing it by calling it a herd follow. I mean, it was a cheap shot shot. It was not a basketball player. It was not a basketball player. But I had to remind him. I was like, Okay, you know there was maybe. I mean, I mean, for sure one of the greatest rookies the WNBA has ever had. And some people will be like, the greatest rookie the WNBA has ever had.

They tried to kill Okay, this Parker like she got to a brawl as a rookie.

They tried to kill Okay, this Parker like she got to a brawl as a rookie.

Would had become a physical game.

Would had become a physical game.

Is ridley deteriorated.

Is ridley deteriorated.

Hearson and Parker tried off.

Hearson and Parker tried off.

With one another.

With one another.

They had her on the ground, had her on the ground.

They had her on the ground, had her on the ground.

Lisa Leslie ready, they had.

Lisa Leslie ready, they had.

Lisa Leslie Cannis Perker was on the ground and someone was on top of her, not telling her sweet yeah, you're detrip once again.

Lisa Leslie Cannis Perker was on the ground and someone was on top of her, not telling her sweet yeah, you're detrip once again.

That's why yank ye I can't have nice things.

That's why yank ye I can't have nice things.

Okay, just right on up.

Okay, just right on up.

She talks about all the time about those many rookie moments that she had that year. Every single player in the WNBA could tell you about a moment where they.

She talks about all the time about those many rookie moments that she had that year. Every single player in the WNBA could tell you about a moment where they.

Had to prove it. They was about that life. You know what I'm saying.

Had to prove it. They was about that life. You know what I'm saying.

My name is Sabrina Merchant, and I'm a staff writer at The Athletic covering women's basketball.

My name is Sabrina Merchant, and I'm a staff writer at The Athletic covering women's basketball.

My colleague, Sabrina Merchant was on assignment for the women's National Championship game in twenty twenty three. In fact, she covered the tournament and like many, she was surprised when Iowa and Caitlin Clark be defending champions South Carolina.

My colleague, Sabrina Merchant was on assignment for the women's National Championship game in twenty twenty three. In fact, she covered the tournament and like many, she was surprised when Iowa and Caitlin Clark be defending champions South Carolina.

It's good to see you, dear friend.

It's good to see you, dear friend.

I find it interesting that we find this moment to have a conversation because I almost feel as if you have always been leading the way on some of these stories, like stories that have been really really juicy, for lack of a better word, really complicated, convoluted, controversial, and because it's been women's basketball, no one's paid attention. You've reported on some very intent negotiations, breakups, cover ups, and it just all went under I guess the radar. What's changed since the last time we talked in terms of women's basketball.

I find it interesting that we find this moment to have a conversation because I almost feel as if you have always been leading the way on some of these stories, like stories that have been really really juicy, for lack of a better word, really complicated, convoluted, controversial, and because it's been women's basketball, no one's paid attention. You've reported on some very intent negotiations, breakups, cover ups, and it just all went under I guess the radar. What's changed since the last time we talked in terms of women's basketball.

So I think The last time we spoke was twenty twenty three WNBA Finals, which was what a great moment that was. That was an incredible series. Two superstars at the peak of their power is going at it. And think of all that has happened since then. We just had two players, Caitlin Clark and Angel Rees, who came onto the national stage and decided that they were not going to step off of it.

So I think The last time we spoke was twenty twenty three WNBA Finals, which was what a great moment that was. That was an incredible series. Two superstars at the peak of their power is going at it. And think of all that has happened since then. We just had two players, Caitlin Clark and Angel Rees, who came onto the national stage and decided that they were not going to step off of it.

Let's go to October. You mentioned the twenty twenty three w NBA Finals. Before the WNBA Finals, there was this little game where these these two young ladies by the name of Caitlin Clark and Angel Rees.

Let's go to October. You mentioned the twenty twenty three w NBA Finals. Before the WNBA Finals, there was this little game where these these two young ladies by the name of Caitlin Clark and Angel Rees.

Meant yeah, So I was covering the West Coast games in the tournament. So I was in Caitlin Clark's regional in Seattle in twenty twenty three. And Great Arena Seattle, you know, it's where the Seattle Storm play. It's only women's basketball and hockey arena. And this is probably like sixty percent full during these Elite eight and Sweet sixteen games. Again, Elite eate Sweet sixteen games, like you know, there's a right to play for the final four. Iowa was playing Louisville Hailey Van Luth, Big name too. That's sixty percent full here. So you know you could tell Caitlin Clark's a great player. You know she was in the running for a National Player of the Year. Ultimately ends up losing to Alia Boston, but or maybe that was the year before. But regardless, like a great player. We're not talking national phenomenon yet. Then you get to the final four. You have Iowa versus undefeated South Carolina, and South Carolina comes in as the defending national champion, starting five that has lost maybe eight or nine games together in their last four years, undefeated throughout the regular season, presumably just two games where.

Meant yeah, So I was covering the West Coast games in the tournament. So I was in Caitlin Clark's regional in Seattle in twenty twenty three. And Great Arena Seattle, you know, it's where the Seattle Storm play. It's only women's basketball and hockey arena. And this is probably like sixty percent full during these Elite eight and Sweet sixteen games. Again, Elite eate Sweet sixteen games, like you know, there's a right to play for the final four. Iowa was playing Louisville Hailey Van Luth, Big name too. That's sixty percent full here. So you know you could tell Caitlin Clark's a great player. You know she was in the running for a National Player of the Year. Ultimately ends up losing to Alia Boston, but or maybe that was the year before. But regardless, like a great player. We're not talking national phenomenon yet. Then you get to the final four. You have Iowa versus undefeated South Carolina, and South Carolina comes in as the defending national champion, starting five that has lost maybe eight or nine games together in their last four years, undefeated throughout the regular season, presumably just two games where.

I say, basically, we all saw going did this tournament? Don Stale and South Carolina game Cocks were going to win. Yeah, that's what it was.

I say, basically, we all saw going did this tournament? Don Stale and South Carolina game Cocks were going to win. Yeah, that's what it was.

A no.

A no.

It was a no.

It was a no.

Like if you picked against South Carolina and your bracket you were just asking, You're like, well, what are you doing exactly?

Like if you picked against South Carolina and your bracket you were just asking, You're like, well, what are you doing exactly?

You're you're going against Kobe, You're going against Jordan, You're going against the best of the best, You're going against Tom Brady.

You're you're going against Kobe, You're going against Jordan, You're going against the best of the best, You're going against Tom Brady.

What are you doing exactly?

What are you doing exactly?

So it's a nightcap on that Friday, the final four LSU, who has already beaten Virginia Tech, which in hindsight is a dramatically more important game than we gave it credit for.

So it's a nightcap on that Friday, the final four LSU, who has already beaten Virginia Tech, which in hindsight is a dramatically more important game than we gave it credit for.

In the time.

In the time.

But you know, Caitlin leads Iowa to this upset of South Carolina, and the energy in that building is unlike anything I can remember previously being present for just live. You know, the tension of like watching a goliath get slain, right, Like, you just don't see that very often, and you know, naturally a team effort. We've seen Kate Martin go on to have a nice little stint with the last ba's aces. So far, everybody can name players on Iowa now, right, like Gabby Marshall, Monicut's not. This is the Caitlyn Clark Show. And she puts up forty points another her magnificent performance and takes down the giants, and it's, oh my god, like, what did we just witness?

But you know, Caitlin leads Iowa to this upset of South Carolina, and the energy in that building is unlike anything I can remember previously being present for just live. You know, the tension of like watching a goliath get slain, right, Like, you just don't see that very often, and you know, naturally a team effort. We've seen Kate Martin go on to have a nice little stint with the last ba's aces. So far, everybody can name players on Iowa now, right, like Gabby Marshall, Monicut's not. This is the Caitlyn Clark Show. And she puts up forty points another her magnificent performance and takes down the giants, and it's, oh my god, like, what did we just witness?

What did we just witness? Is she the best thing ever? Is she the next Steph Curry? Is she the female Steph Curry? Exactly all the questions people were asking. Because I was shocked that she beat Don Staley.

What did we just witness? Is she the best thing ever? Is she the next Steph Curry? Is she the female Steph Curry? Exactly all the questions people were asking. Because I was shocked that she beat Don Staley.

In South Carolina.

In South Carolina.

I was like, there was no game plan for her, right, there was no game plan for Caitlin Clark, and.

I was like, there was no game plan for her, right, there was no game plan for Caitlin Clark, and.

It didn't seem like a fluke either. It looked like she was in complete control of that game, which is not something you expect to see against again, undefeated, defending national champion, like multiple players going to the pros, best defense in the country, all of that.

It didn't seem like a fluke either. It looked like she was in complete control of that game, which is not something you expect to see against again, undefeated, defending national champion, like multiple players going to the pros, best defense in the country, all of that.

You name it.

You name it.

They had every accohlade and she walked into Don Staley and Don Staley was just the cherry on top of the ice cream. So she walks away from this game and we're I know, I'm thinking, I don't know what we've just witnessed, but everyone is talking about it. I'm not and by everyone, I mean not just within our world. It's on national news. It is everywhere. People who don't watch to women's basketball or telling you about what they think about these women.

They had every accohlade and she walked into Don Staley and Don Staley was just the cherry on top of the ice cream. So she walks away from this game and we're I know, I'm thinking, I don't know what we've just witnessed, but everyone is talking about it. I'm not and by everyone, I mean not just within our world. It's on national news. It is everywhere. People who don't watch to women's basketball or telling you about what they think about these women.

Yeah, it's the kind of thing where you get texts the next morning like, oh my god, did you watch that game?

Yeah, it's the kind of thing where you get texts the next morning like, oh my god, did you watch that game?

Can you believe what just happened?

Can you believe what just happened?

Is that professionally, this isn't what I have to do to be in person to cover that game.

Is that professionally, this isn't what I have to do to be in person to cover that game.

Oh, Test Conker stuff up?

Oh, Test Conker stuff up?

Yeah, that was I think that's when the switch flitch.

Yeah, that was I think that's when the switch flitch.

After the break, my colleague and host of a Good Game podcast, Sarah Spain shares her thoughts.

After the break, my colleague and host of a Good Game podcast, Sarah Spain shares her thoughts.

Having so many conversations with different WNBA players and reporters over the years, one of the things that was standing in the way of people embracing the game is just that it looks a little different than professional men's basketball, and people who could get hung up on they're not dunking would choose that as the reason that they didn't.

Having so many conversations with different WNBA players and reporters over the years, one of the things that was standing in the way of people embracing the game is just that it looks a little different than professional men's basketball, and people who could get hung up on they're not dunking would choose that as the reason that they didn't.

Appreciate the game back in a moment.

Appreciate the game back in a moment.

For a lot of sports radio and sports TV, you need to have a take. And if you're not watching a lot of games and you don't know a lot about the players or the sport.

For a lot of sports radio and sports TV, you need to have a take. And if you're not watching a lot of games and you don't know a lot about the players or the sport.

Take doesn't have any legs. If you can just say I like Caitlin Clark.

Take doesn't have any legs. If you can just say I like Caitlin Clark.

I don't like Angel Reed, or should women be this competitive? Or are they trying to take her, you can have a conversation on your show and you can get people fired up about it without ever having to do the work. And that's sometimes a good thing, not for the product that comes out, but for the coverage coming out of it.

I don't like Angel Reed, or should women be this competitive? Or are they trying to take her, you can have a conversation on your show and you can get people fired up about it without ever having to do the work. And that's sometimes a good thing, not for the product that comes out, but for the coverage coming out of it.

It was really good for women's.

It was really good for women's.

College basketball and eventually the WNBA that people had this thing, this rivalry that they could create takes.

College basketball and eventually the WNBA that people had this thing, this rivalry that they could create takes.

Out of I'm sure you've heard analysts on television say welcome to the new fans of the WNBA. I'm sure I've said it many a times, but if I'm honest, I don't know that much of us really know anything about these ladies off the court, especially Caitlin Clark. Here's Sarah Spain of the Good Game podcast.

Out of I'm sure you've heard analysts on television say welcome to the new fans of the WNBA. I'm sure I've said it many a times, but if I'm honest, I don't know that much of us really know anything about these ladies off the court, especially Caitlin Clark. Here's Sarah Spain of the Good Game podcast.

All you need to know is she's jacking up shots from basically half court. She's hitting logo threes on the regular, and she's doing it in clutch moments, and that alone opens the door a jar for people to step in and appreciate her play and then start watching the rest of the game and say, oh, this is good. But that was the ultimate sort of backbreaker for that argument that women weren't worth watching because they couldn't done.

All you need to know is she's jacking up shots from basically half court. She's hitting logo threes on the regular, and she's doing it in clutch moments, and that alone opens the door a jar for people to step in and appreciate her play and then start watching the rest of the game and say, oh, this is good. But that was the ultimate sort of backbreaker for that argument that women weren't worth watching because they couldn't done.

Was like, oh, wait, she's doing something the guys aren't doing well.

Was like, oh, wait, she's doing something the guys aren't doing well.

To that same idea, everyone says she plays like Steph Curry. She has every Steph Curry I think is arguably one of the most impactful players in basketball in terms of his every man's game, and people have called her every every woman's game if you will, It's very common. It feels like I can do it. She's a girl next door. All of these things feel very marketable when you look at the WNBA, do you feel that's a slight on the women who've already built this league for so many years.

To that same idea, everyone says she plays like Steph Curry. She has every Steph Curry I think is arguably one of the most impactful players in basketball in terms of his every man's game, and people have called her every every woman's game if you will, It's very common. It feels like I can do it. She's a girl next door. All of these things feel very marketable when you look at the WNBA, do you feel that's a slight on the women who've already built this league for so many years.

I think the.

I think the.

Way we talk about Caitlin Clark can be in.

Way we talk about Caitlin Clark can be in.

Good faith talking about the ways that she is appealing, and the same way that we could talk about Steph Curry being appealing because you felt like watching him, like, oh, I could do that, which is very different than watching Michael Jordan Shack or Lebron James. And then there's ways that we talk about Caitlin Clark that are almost obtuse with intention so as to disregard the ways that we haven't respected the existing players in the WNBA over the decades, particularly players of color, players who are masculine presenting, players who are openly LGBTQIA plus right. When we are intentional about promoting and singling out a straight white girl next door as the face of a league that has been predominantly black, we have to acknowledge why that's happening. And if you look across the landscape of women's sports, so often what has become considered palatable in the eyes of many who want to place women in specific lanes. Is the sports that have predominantly white athletes who have esthetically generally pleasing body types and who we can sort of infantilize as your little girl all grown up right, just the perfect little role models had a sit soccer, right, And those sports are changing by the way, and we're witnessing and getting through the issues of the changing faces and representatives for those sports in ways that are worth discussing too. But in basketball in particular, when you find that the focus is on Caitlin Clark Paige Becker's Sueer Bird at the expense of other players, because it's not to say that they're not deserving, but it is to say that who else has been contributing at the highest level, who else is worthy of that praise, those marketing deals, those sponsorships that we're not paying attention to, and why, let's be honest about it.

Good faith talking about the ways that she is appealing, and the same way that we could talk about Steph Curry being appealing because you felt like watching him, like, oh, I could do that, which is very different than watching Michael Jordan Shack or Lebron James. And then there's ways that we talk about Caitlin Clark that are almost obtuse with intention so as to disregard the ways that we haven't respected the existing players in the WNBA over the decades, particularly players of color, players who are masculine presenting, players who are openly LGBTQIA plus right. When we are intentional about promoting and singling out a straight white girl next door as the face of a league that has been predominantly black, we have to acknowledge why that's happening. And if you look across the landscape of women's sports, so often what has become considered palatable in the eyes of many who want to place women in specific lanes. Is the sports that have predominantly white athletes who have esthetically generally pleasing body types and who we can sort of infantilize as your little girl all grown up right, just the perfect little role models had a sit soccer, right, And those sports are changing by the way, and we're witnessing and getting through the issues of the changing faces and representatives for those sports in ways that are worth discussing too. But in basketball in particular, when you find that the focus is on Caitlin Clark Paige Becker's Sueer Bird at the expense of other players, because it's not to say that they're not deserving, but it is to say that who else has been contributing at the highest level, who else is worthy of that praise, those marketing deals, those sponsorships that we're not paying attention to, and why, let's be honest about it.

Kitlyn Clark is a game changer and she's brought so many new eyes to the WNBA. And episode two we talk to the people who know Kitlyn Clark intimately will also hear from the game changer herself next time on Naked Sports.

Kitlyn Clark is a game changer and she's brought so many new eyes to the WNBA. And episode two we talk to the people who know Kitlyn Clark intimately will also hear from the game changer herself next time on Naked Sports.

Who is Kitlyn Clark.

Who is Kitlyn Clark.

When you watch her play, her vision and her understanding of the game, the game is literally slowed down in her mind, you know, and she sees these passing angles that even the past or the receiver of the past doesn't even see, you know, And you're watching in the stands or on the side of the court, and you don't always even see it as a coach, you know, or a fan until it happens. And so just to see firsthand how she sees the game, and it's kind of hard to explain because even as we watch her, you can't get in her mind. But the game is literally slower for her than other people.

When you watch her play, her vision and her understanding of the game, the game is literally slowed down in her mind, you know, and she sees these passing angles that even the past or the receiver of the past doesn't even see, you know, And you're watching in the stands or on the side of the court, and you don't always even see it as a coach, you know, or a fan until it happens. And so just to see firsthand how she sees the game, and it's kind of hard to explain because even as we watch her, you can't get in her mind. But the game is literally slower for her than other people.

I mean, I have known Caitlin since she was in eighth grade. I've been following her. We had been recruiting her since then because we knew she was such a special talent. And then it came time for her senior year and her to make this decision. And she grew up in a Catholic high school, very strong Catholic family, and so Notre Dame, of course, was a logical decision for her to make, but her heart wasn't there. And she went on her visit and she came home and was really just didn't feel good about it after she'd committed to them, and so had somebody call me up to find out would I still be interested than having her? Well, of course, so so she did end up calling Notre Dame and declining and then called me up.

I mean, I have known Caitlin since she was in eighth grade. I've been following her. We had been recruiting her since then because we knew she was such a special talent. And then it came time for her senior year and her to make this decision. And she grew up in a Catholic high school, very strong Catholic family, and so Notre Dame, of course, was a logical decision for her to make, but her heart wasn't there. And she went on her visit and she came home and was really just didn't feel good about it after she'd committed to them, and so had somebody call me up to find out would I still be interested than having her? Well, of course, so so she did end up calling Notre Dame and declining and then called me up.

I can still remember where I was.

I can still remember where I was.

My husband and I were out having dinner. She called me up and said, if you'd have me, if you still have a spot available, I'd love to be a Hawkeye.

My husband and I were out having dinner. She called me up and said, if you'd have me, if you still have a spot available, I'd love to be a Hawkeye.

And this was my first season doing the women's college game. And I go back and we're watching a little bit and I see her pull up thirty five feet or whatever it was, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is just this is crazy. And the ratings are through the roof, nowhere near where they're at now, but for that time, shattered records for US on ESPN and that game was on ABC, and so people are like, oh, this Kaitlyn Clark player, she's fun whatever. Well, Caitlyn continues to get better and better, and then her moments become more and more viral, and all of a sudden you have people who are seeing clips of her and they're saying, oh my gosh, who is this they're seeing the insane no look passes, they're seeing the downpour passes. But more than anything else at this moment, what they're seeing is they're seeing someone pull up off the dribble from thirty thirty five forty feet and just having these incredible performances to someone who's leading the nation and scoring and assisting over and over again.

And this was my first season doing the women's college game. And I go back and we're watching a little bit and I see her pull up thirty five feet or whatever it was, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is just this is crazy. And the ratings are through the roof, nowhere near where they're at now, but for that time, shattered records for US on ESPN and that game was on ABC, and so people are like, oh, this Kaitlyn Clark player, she's fun whatever. Well, Caitlyn continues to get better and better, and then her moments become more and more viral, and all of a sudden you have people who are seeing clips of her and they're saying, oh my gosh, who is this they're seeing the insane no look passes, they're seeing the downpour passes. But more than anything else at this moment, what they're seeing is they're seeing someone pull up off the dribble from thirty thirty five forty feet and just having these incredible performances to someone who's leading the nation and scoring and assisting over and over again.

The mastering of Caylan Clark continues.

The mastering of Caylan Clark continues.

I think that's part of what makes Caitlyn so compelling to watch is that you can see everything on her face. She doesn't hide anything. She is incredibly emotional throughout the course of a game, and that makes her a more interesting figure on television and in person. But if you're only tuning in for the national title game, you think, oh, this poor girl from Iowa is getting bullied by you know, the big bad alis you girls, which couldn't be farther from the truth, because, as Caitlyn said repeatedly after the game, like she'd beenditioned out the same stuff for five previous games while she was winning. But like you said, the optics make people uncomfortable, Like there is there's a racial element, which I mean, we let it slide on the men's side, right like if a male athlete taunts another male athlete, doesn't really matter if they're black and white. It's just two men going at one another. But there was an extra layer because they're women. Because we don't let women show their emotions like that in public, they were not given that same level of grace.

I think that's part of what makes Caitlyn so compelling to watch is that you can see everything on her face. She doesn't hide anything. She is incredibly emotional throughout the course of a game, and that makes her a more interesting figure on television and in person. But if you're only tuning in for the national title game, you think, oh, this poor girl from Iowa is getting bullied by you know, the big bad alis you girls, which couldn't be farther from the truth, because, as Caitlyn said repeatedly after the game, like she'd beenditioned out the same stuff for five previous games while she was winning. But like you said, the optics make people uncomfortable, Like there is there's a racial element, which I mean, we let it slide on the men's side, right like if a male athlete taunts another male athlete, doesn't really matter if they're black and white. It's just two men going at one another. But there was an extra layer because they're women. Because we don't let women show their emotions like that in public, they were not given that same level of grace.

I remember Kaylyn Clark going viral for like logo threes and step back threes, and it was like, oh, she plays like stuff. That's what I was hearing. And I was like, oh, like, I hadn't seen somebody in a minute shooting from that deep. I hadn't seen like I've seen players really good. But logo threes was her thing. And I was like, Iowa, I don't remember Iowa being good. And I was like, oh, ls, she was pretty good. And I remember they beat Iowa, and I know I remember Kaylyn Clark was really braggadocious like she was she was doing this, she was she was ah like she was playing with a lot of emotion, which is cool.

I remember Kaylyn Clark going viral for like logo threes and step back threes, and it was like, oh, she plays like stuff. That's what I was hearing. And I was like, oh, like, I hadn't seen somebody in a minute shooting from that deep. I hadn't seen like I've seen players really good. But logo threes was her thing. And I was like, Iowa, I don't remember Iowa being good. And I was like, oh, ls, she was pretty good. And I remember they beat Iowa, and I know I remember Kaylyn Clark was really braggadocious like she was she was doing this, she was she was ah like she was playing with a lot of emotion, which is cool.

I love it.

I love it.

And then when Angel Rees and them played and Angel Reese put it back in her face, I was like, okay, Like this is competition the way I like it. And then like when I was watching the game. It wasn't that big. I was like, oh, this is great. She pointed out a ring. She did all this and then like I feel like immediately that day it became like Angel getting called class list and I was like, and this is for me. It was like here we go again, because I remember, like Tom Brady, he takes off his helmet and throws it. He's passionate as Brian does it.

And then when Angel Rees and them played and Angel Reese put it back in her face, I was like, okay, Like this is competition the way I like it. And then like when I was watching the game. It wasn't that big. I was like, oh, this is great. She pointed out a ring. She did all this and then like I feel like immediately that day it became like Angel getting called class list and I was like, and this is for me. It was like here we go again, because I remember, like Tom Brady, he takes off his helmet and throws it. He's passionate as Brian does it.

They got mad at too, Yeah they got mad.

They got mad at too, Yeah they got mad.

But they didn't get mad at Tom. Tom is always passionate. Is he's losing his cool. Odell Beckham loses cool. So it's it's quite often that black athletes and white athletes do the same thing and it's looked at very differently. And with Angel Reese, I was like here we here we go. Like so as a black person, I'm like, nah, I got to ride for you because I got to defend black women. I'm gonna be on your side. So that's what I remember. Like it become becoming a huge, huge thing. And I remember they played the next year and I remember saying, you know, I did make my joke. I was like, Race War two is happening.

But they didn't get mad at Tom. Tom is always passionate. Is he's losing his cool. Odell Beckham loses cool. So it's it's quite often that black athletes and white athletes do the same thing and it's looked at very differently. And with Angel Reese, I was like here we here we go. Like so as a black person, I'm like, nah, I got to ride for you because I got to defend black women. I'm gonna be on your side. So that's what I remember. Like it become becoming a huge, huge thing. And I remember they played the next year and I remember saying, you know, I did make my joke. I was like, Race War two is happening.

Would Caitlin Clark be such a supernova if there were no Angel Reese, I don't know, no, no, Who is Caitlin Clark. That's episode two of Making of a Rivalry. The Making of a Rivalry Kitlin Clark versus Angel Reese is a Be Honest production in partnership with the Black Effect podcast Network in iHeart Women's Sports. Written and executive produced by me Kerry Champion. Supervising producer is Arlene Santana, produced by Jack Vice Thomas Sound Design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. Associate producer Olubu Sayle Shabby. Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effect podcast Network in iHeartMedia. Hey everybody, if you're new to Naked Sports, welcome to the podcast, and for those who've been with us since season one, thank you for Right now. We're kicking off season four with this six episode docu series that you're listening to right now, and after that, Naked Sports will continue to live at the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. We're covering all things from the presidential race to the WNBA Rookie of the Year contests.

Would Caitlin Clark be such a supernova if there were no Angel Reese, I don't know, no, no, Who is Caitlin Clark. That's episode two of Making of a Rivalry. The Making of a Rivalry Kitlin Clark versus Angel Reese is a Be Honest production in partnership with the Black Effect podcast Network in iHeart Women's Sports. Written and executive produced by me Kerry Champion. Supervising producer is Arlene Santana, produced by Jack Vice Thomas Sound Design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. Associate producer Olubu Sayle Shabby. Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effect podcast Network in iHeartMedia. Hey everybody, if you're new to Naked Sports, welcome to the podcast, and for those who've been with us since season one, thank you for Right now. We're kicking off season four with this six episode docu series that you're listening to right now, and after that, Naked Sports will continue to live at the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. We're covering all things from the presidential race to the WNBA Rookie of the Year contests.

This season will be bold.

This season will be bold.

As you can already tell, no holds barred, but also we'll bring you that same vulnerable storytelling technique that makes our show so very unique.

As you can already tell, no holds barred, but also we'll bring you that same vulnerable storytelling technique that makes our show so very unique.

We appreciate you for.

We appreciate you for.

Being here, and thank you all for the support. We'll talk to you next week.

Being here, and thank you all for the support. We'll talk to you next week.