I would go as far as to say, is more than one of them had a cane at any given time, because at one point it was just the thing to be a dude in an ARMBA group and have a kid. I bought one of my brother for Christmas. I was like, it was a write of passage for just the young black dude at the time. A brother, you know you need a king? Can he? He might still have it. I just saw him yesterday. I should have answered, I pready, God, you kneeled when you handed it off to I want that more than anything, because my crown chips in your quali mass or racist last money turkey stuff I can't tell me. Welcome to another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told the podcast where we dive deep, deep into the pockets of black conspiracy theories and we finally worked to prove that Kyla Pratt did, in fact sacrifice her television father flex Alexander's career to the black Illuminati in exchange for eternal youth. It sounds right to me, I'll be honest, that sounds exactly right. Kyla Pratt has not aged a day since nineteen She looks amazing. She looks fantastic and something had to have happened. You can't be the same girl from loving basketball forever? Where's flats? He was on a rocket ship to the moon. I haven't seen him since. You know, he was in uh if I'm remembering correctly, he was in Snakes on a plane If I'm not mistaken, who was briefly in that plane? Briefly? So barometer for success? This easily could have been a Flex Alexander hologram. That are Watchington, Which one was Washington or Alexander flex Alexander. I believe he was Flex Washington on the show one on one? Why why do that? Why not to pick a full different name if you're gonna be in a multi caam on up n Why why why commit so hard? I think? But you want the name Flex is what's gonna travel, Alexander Washington. It's all very Interchangeablelex is what they want us to remember. He said, Alexander is my slave name, but Flex, that's Washington is my LESTERR slave name. Washington, it's my chosen slave man. If I have to choose a slave name, I want the best slave owner. I E Washington. No, they had Dentald Washington So that's a good family. Yeah, that was a solid family. Solace slave on the shout out to the slave own in Washington's if you're still out there, Hell yeah, you got it, baby, you're the best. What are we one in? All right? I'm David Borden and I'm your co host Legs and Carmen. We're so happy to be here with you. We're talking shit about apparently flex Flex Alexander and and Kyla Pratt and George Washington a little bit, but but less so him for some reason. But our guest today, I would dare to say that that he hasn't owned any slaves, nor it would he would he well, I think he'd go so far. Okay, maybe maybe he would. He's not certain. He's wavering on the subject. But he's such a funny comedian, hysterical. You've seen him in so many things. Specifically, he is a a writer producer for The Great North on Fox. So fucking funny. Please give it up for our guests, Mr Kevin A. Ray, how are you? We're excited you're here. I'm gonna go no on on the slave owning. Damn, I'm gonna make that official. Okay, this feels put it on watch. I'm gonna be trying to be on the on the right side of things, you know. I feel like I feel like slave owning is a dangerous, dangerous precedent to start out there now, it would be a weird way to start the episode and expect people to eventually be on yours and then just d hop back to the part where he said he don't slaves. Okay, hear me out, I down slaves. But yeah, yeah, okay, so I'm good. So noticed slave voting and that's fine. To each his own is what I always say. But you came to us this week with a conspiracy theory, and I'm I say you, but the truth is this is a bit of a unique episode because you did not, in fact come to us with its conspiracy theory. You came to us with an open heart. You said, you said, if you fellas have something you want to discuss, I am more than open to to taking that on. I'm not afraid of what possibly could come down the pipeline. And then Bori immediately raised his hand. He could not embrace the same faster, Kevin. I want you to know how quickly this happened, Unbelievably fast. He raised his hand with a conspiracy theory that I would argue is maybe the most unfounded thing that we are going to take on in this in this conversation. That's crazy. Okay, already starting with the look, I'm gonna say this on the and you haven't said it yet. This was a theory that I I definitely was riding with for a minute. Thank you, thank you for a minute, and then I really thought about it. But I mean, I just want to note that we're five minutes in Lightston is already positioned me in the position of the buffoon the wild card. Wow, I just want that episode, my god. Okay, So so now now there's a hierarchy being formed. I have I walked into some unsettled ship that I oh for me personally, this coach back to before. Great this, I can't I can't wait. I mean this, I will say this to about the theory you chose it. Hit me right right here, m his heart not. I know that you have skin in the game personally, That's why I chose it for you. Yeah, okay, I appreciate that. Let us let us not linger any longer, let us not leave our audience with bated breath. You see the conspiracy theory that was presented. It was my mama told me life scanned people are good at R and B. HM, let's let's unpack it, fell David, this is yours, this is your baby. I'd love for you to kick us off. I just have felt throughout and I don't listen. First of all, I personally do not think that light skinned people are better than dark skinned people at R and B. I think that it's even Oh wait, I think there's been a lot of I think there's been a lot of dark skinned eraser in the R and B game in general, just like I think, quite honest, there's been a lot of fat eraser in the R and B game as well as well. Because we all remember Woody from drew Hill, What happened to Jazz? What happ jazz? Jazz was the heavier one, last king, last of the thick kings. As far as could sing, Ruben stuttered. But that was not Ruben stuttered. Wasn't making like panty dropping. He tried, well, he had he had a small window at a moment. He had a moment he did. Yeah, it was I'm sorry for two thousand four. That was not yes. I mean, here's what I'll say, is that Ruben really uh, he tried a little bit of everything that is the formula of R and B. He apologized, he uh, he made love and uh he walked in the rain, and none of it seemed to to satisfy the missing piece, which was us looking at Ruben Stutter to being like, yeah, I'll buy that album. Yeah, I'll take what you're giving me. Big dog. You beat Clay Haakin, big deal. Yeah, I don't even know if he did. Did he win? I don't know, Yes, Reuben Stutter did. He did win. Clay Agin got second place and now is running for governor I believe. I don't know what office he's running for. I know he's been a politician for for some time now. But back back to this, back to back, back back to what really matters, the hard hitting stuff. I've just felt like my whole life there's always been this like light skin predisposition to sexy stuff, and then dark skin we got like I didn't want to play offensive line. That might have been a thing, yeah, but like all the DBS, light skins they remallow I remember him specifically basically white, and I will say this, no one's ever asked me to play offensive line, and I have to assume that's because of the color of my skin crossed their mind, like did you play power forward? Ever? Not? No, it wasn't because I was smaller than everybody else and had to play point guard. I don't think so. I think it's probably because I'm light skinned. That makes more sense. Has anybody ever come up to you and been like, you seem like you could sing? They have it. But but also I had my voice the whole time. Kevin, please jump in here. I have had I've had a weird thing where a couple of times white women have been like, I want to hear you saying I bet you could sing, and I'm like, who I know. I didn't say I could sing. I don't. I didn't. I didn't really put that out there. I mean, not back when this was happening a lot. But yeah, that's definitely you know. And I'll say this, I did play linebacker when I played football in junior high. Anybody can be a linebacker, okay, alright, fair enough. And also I was the h Yeah, I was the only black kid in the in the school at the time, aside from my brother. So I mean they went with the darkest one for so I guess I'm proving your point. I'm saying I tried out for a wide receiver and I did not get that. They were like, we need about a tough guy position. You. Also, I know this about you. You were in and R and B Green. I was, oh my gosh, hold on a minute, that's how they get That's how they get you. This is, if nothing else, helping David towards this point. So please tell us more about this R and B group you were a part of. Look, I didn't say we were good, but that doesn't matter that we were. We were all right, And I'm gonna say we were called we were called four now, the four with the number four and now, and even though there were six of us, it was a gross error. It was an accident, a miss We were mistitled miss labeled before a show, and that just was the name we stuck with. Yeah, we were, but they were like I think they were out of the gate. Three dark skin cats and three light skin Okay in the group. So when split down, split down center. Yeah, But now here's my question. When you were performing, I assume your group dances and things of that nature. Where were the lights standing in position in comparison to the darks. I mean it depended. You know, it's a group, you mix it up and stuff. I can tell you this. The first performance we did, we covered can You Stand the Rain? I was in the middle. Not a light skinned man made that song, by the way. He was in the middle. By the way I was in the middle. Uh, the two dark skinned man wrote that song. That's what I'm saying. That's that's a lot of a lot of things. That's a song that's almost exclusively been performed by dark skinned people. But go ahead, written written, is doesn't count. Who sang Who wrote freaking you? Nobody knows. I'll say this on that song. The leads and this is this is why I'm going against your theory. Now. The leads were all the dark skinned dudes and well and the in new addition, it's it's trespant Ricky bell and and Johnny gill uh in our group. Yeah, it was all three of the dark skinned dudes and the leads on the park and the rest of us sang back up. I told everybody, hey, y'all, let's go get wet. And I did. I did that. The middle of the song. Uh, and that was and that was it, and then did a little bit some choreography and sang the backup. Wait, so you stood in the middle and sang backup. How that's because remember there are six of us, so it's all the whole regular game plan just goes out the window. So, um, I can't remember exactly where everyone else was lined up, but I think there was a dark skinned dude on my on my left. You were flanked by dark skin. I think I was flanked by dark skin, almost like some type of security detail. Yeah, yeah, but they were trying to protect me. It all protect the light skin. We gotta keep the money safe, right, But then we like it became this very interchangeable thing where we broke up and then we came together and there were only three of us for a minute, and then there were four of us and and you know, so the ratio of light skin to dark skin it kept changing. Okay, what would you say the ratio was at your most successful? Oh, whoa spicy question. He's coming in hot, And I want you to be careful when you answered this, because yeah, that's such a loaded I mean, the gun couldn't be closer to down your throat, what the hell man look? Asking the real questions here. We were the hardest interview I've ever had to do for this for for Now twenty five years later, address the racial disparities from the R and B group of twenty years ago. Um, I would say, I would say, oh, Ship, you know, no, still half and half, still half and half, because because they were eventually there, eventually worth four of us, and by then we changed the name, but it was still too dark skinned dudes and two light skin dudes. And how dark are we talking on like a scale of Langston? To myself, I mean it was literally the dark skin like Ron the other light skin Cat was about Langston's complexion. And then, um my, man, Corey, there you go. You can't do that. You can't do that. I just I just like to hear it. I like you, there's somebody else out there doing the baby's Yeah, someone else making it happen. Light skin, keep selling the brain. But then and then and Corey, yeah, David, he was about it was about your complexion, Korey and Patrick. Patrick was a little younger or younger, a little lighter than you. People do conflate younger and lighter a lot. Sure, you know hurt today Kevin Kyla Pratt uh so so, so tell me a little bit more. You you start this R and B group, is that the goal? Are you guys gonna be like R and B superstars or was this just like a fun and it was? It was we were a dance crew to start trying to remember the ratio again that was split down the middle. There were there were four of us in a dance crew, and then some of us in like sort of the outside crew of that joint. We started singing together. But even in the dance crew two light skin too, dark skin, cats and so, and I would argue that that dance crew was black. That's Korean eraser. If you ask me those that they just got hit, don't do that. Don't do that. Wait, don't do that, don't do that. Korean jobs they got, they dance they just got. There wasn't there's a bunch now, but I'm not there wasn't a bunch of like eight Korean dance cruise right. No. No, I would say, I would say, you're looking at I mean, I don't know the history of the Korean Dance Cup. Yeall me up? Yeah, trapped me up on some ship. No. Every week. I finished this being really worried about the things I've said. Yeah, not me, That's fine, Linton just goes straight to sleep comfortably. But but yeah, I mean, yeah, it was we were like this, We were like this little dance crew. And then we started hanging out and singing again, and we were like, we should really take this seriously, and so we started performing together a little bit. And uh, and then we we knew a guy who had some recording equipment and I wrote music, So I started writing some stuff. We started recording. There was another guy who kind of would produce some of the other stuff that we we sang, and and yeah, we just started doing and we yeah, our goal was to kind of blow up and do the whole the whole thing, but they just sort of fell apart. We were all from different parts of the country. We met in the South and so yeah, and so it just kind of flew apart. And also it was at a time when that was kind of it looked like that was about to go away, that whole thing, new addition had come and gone, and and even Bellby of de Vot was like hi bye for you know, like in early nine days. Yeah, but they made such a huge splash, but then they bounced and then it was a lot of other groups that did the thing for a while. But it just felt like what we were trying to do when we were trying to go for it wasn't kind of, you know, go the way we wanted to. Would you have likened yourself to like like an oh town, town excuse me town, maybe the worst boy band in all the boy bands? Would you say you were you were just fucking awful? That was That was my fault. That was it was, that was It took me. I had to reload. That was bad. That was bad, That was really bad. I would say we were and I don't mean to, but we were very new Addition esque when they were the sixth of us and then because then like when the group was reduced, we had a much more bell be devot ish sort of angle. I mean, there were genuine hip hop heads in the group. So I feel like, not no shade against Bellbot's vote, but like the hip hop we were doing was we were trying to probably to our detriment, we were probably trying to be too, were trying to wrap around it sounded it didn't. It didn't work. So you were so you were you were past new Jack Swing. You were like, yeah, yeah, it was I mean, but we played around with some of that. I mean, we didn't know what we were doing. Man, I go, I have some of the demo tapes that we did, and I listened to that. I'm just like, who the hell let us? We had no friends. No one said, hey, y'all, come here, come come here, let me gather all six of you brothers around. You might get a mistake here, fellas you know, some of us something. It was good, but a lot of it was like what the hell were we think? Can you give? Can you drop a couple of song titles just so we Yeah, we had something called and we're a group that took ourselves and everything at the moment too seriously. One time we did was called the Experiment, and it was literally just us trying. It was that thing I was talking about, we gonna we're gonna have like a sort of like a house or a club section, and then we're gonna have like a straight hip hop section, and then we're gonna know it doesn't music doesn't work that. Music doesn't do that. It just doesn't do that. We had another song called It's a Black Thing, because we had a song called know what was the black Thing? It was literally it was just what it's a black thing? It was. That was the phrase of the moment, y'all, David, if you gotta ask, you'll never know. Buddy. I'm trying to remember my first the first line of mine, because that was just that was that was a that was hip hop, but with like, um see this is what I'm talking about. And it had kind of like a an up tempo almost house beat, but we were wrapping over it and then it had uh we were singing the hook. There's a lot of qualifiers here. There was a whole thing. But I think I'm trying to remember. I think that it was like bo knows this, Boe knows that, but bo don't know a damn thing about the lyrics that a brother bring. I can't remember the rest of the goddamn song because inside out it's wicked, wicked. What how do you know you bought? You bought our album? What was? I can't damn I can't. I wish I could remember the rest of it. It was is the really ridiculous let me before we go to break. I have to ask, because you started this this episode off by saying that you did, at one point believe in the conspiracy theory that that boy is laying down, And I have to know how that came to be what you believed in. What has changed since? Because I did look into it, and you know, and there and I saw a couple of articles about like, hey, why are about colorism in music? And and specifically why light skin performers do better? And the list was like Beyonce, Marian Carey, you know. Uh, I was thinking of Chris Brown at one point, you know, he popped why some of those they blew her up? Some of those videos? Um, and then and then the woman I'm thinking, I'm forgetting Alicia Keys, But then I I don't. Then I started thinking about all the other artists that, I mean, new addition is mostly dark skinned, and and the light skin brothers are in the background, you know, like I was. I was a Ronney Devote. I was a Michael Bivens, you know what I mean, like kind of hanging on the back, do the harm and age. I just wanted to play ball, you know, Yeah, But like I neo a con I think there's so many more dark skinned sitting boys to men are a dark skinned group after seven? Yes, yeah, I mean here's what I think. I think what the light skinned folks have or what they do, is they find a way to rise above. I mean, there are more people in Destiny's Child, four people in Destiny's Child. Somehow Beyonce just went all the way, you know what I mean, cannibalized the whole ship. Yeah, yeah, uh devote. Look, every new Edition fan, male or female will tell you the coolest cat in that group is Ronnie de Vot. I mean, Ralph is a close second. I'm a Ralph man myself, but I'm a body guy. But I understand why that's for everybody. But okay, but there again, Bobby Brown, dark skinned dude left new addition, new addition, and then just went far beyond what they were right there, you know. Yeah, And so I think dark skinned folks have been, you know, putting it down in R and B for a while now. But the light skin folks do find a way to peek through there and and you know, steal sometimes steal the shine. And what would that talent be? What would you call that skill? Again? Be careful what about that break where we going on a fellas. I don't think you have to answer it. I'm happy to throw the brain. I'm thirsty, I'm about let me take a go ahead. We're gonna take a break. We'll be back with laughing too, damn hard and more, my mama told me. And we are back. Stop stop, oh stop, Yeah, we're back here. We're back with more Kevin Avery more. My mama told me. We're still talking about the possibility that light skinned people are are inherently naturally God given good at R and b uh. That drop came to us from a listener named Gary. Gary sent us that dropping, and it seemed very apt to play today given the conversation. M hmm. Indeed, something just occurred to me. Something just occurred to me. Uh, I wonder if there we've seen a turn and that back in the day, the birth of these groups, all the motown groups and stuff, if that's when the light skinned singers really had their day. Michael, are we're talking Smokey Robinson? I think I keep thinking about Smokey. I don't I mean, I don't know those groups. I don't know the lineup of those groups that well, I don't you know, but with a temptation. Who were the light skin cats and like the temptations, Michael was dark. He made a choice that don't count. Yeah, Michael slipped into light skinis um. Yeah, that was he learned he was. He learned it late in life. There were no darks, there were no light skin temptations. I don't think no, you know what, I don't remember a light skin pip. I don't think there was a light skin pip. I think it was smoky. Smokey is the best example I think anybody can come up with. And he he had light eyes. So I feel like that's a that's a whole different type of person, you know what I mean? Yes, this is I'm not qualified to speak on that lights. Being with light eyes feels like a different game than what I'm playing, do you know what I mean? Michael Eally and Boris Kojoe are not putting the same same energy out in I think that's reason. I think it's just I think that's how I feel about like very physically fit, dark skinned men and myself. Yeah, exactly. It's like you see Jiman Hansu without a shirt on. That's not that's not Those aren't the worlds I'm going for. No, we we didn't have the same opportunities laid in front of us in the theater. I see Michael Eally around my neighborhood semi regularly, and I just seemed suddenly it's just I feel like he's my nemesis for all the brother has never done anything to me, but I see him and I'm just like the eyes they are piercing. Yeah, and let me let me break this down. I think a lot of this work came from this is actually this is this is good for my my personal story. I'm getting this right now. I have a play cousin who is six years older than me, who is light skinned with green eyes and sang on and being danced and all that time, and we would go to the mall and ship and people would ask if he could sing and ship like that. So I think that this may be, this may be, this may be about light skinned people with green eyes. From me there we also had we also had another girl that was around us all the time, and she had blue eyes, but she was not as light skinned as he was. And I'm so happy. I guess they hear you saying this, because it does feel like, now we're getting to the root of where some of this this feeling is coming from. That that, while I'm sure there's plenty of evidence, Kevin, as you pointed out there are some light skinned singers and performers that that that populate the the sort of charts as they were, there seems to me to be a pretty a pretty substantial, if not heavier leaning ratio towards dark skinned people. Now I'm gonna say, I don't know why, I don't trust what you're saying right now, but I feel heavily on the defensive for some reason. I took the time to look up you know, the list, and I do think your point about Whitney Houston and the right lighting. They probably did a bunch of stuff to make Whitney look darker or rather lighter than she actually was. Oh, they blew up a lot of people. I mean, I think Jojo or Casey from Casey and Jojo Freaking he's blasted with like all those videos. He looks like almost light skin. Now I'll say this about Joda. See Davante was light skinned, right, Yeah, he's light skin and he was the King of jodas he was the Yeah, he was the brains behind the operation. Yeah, but fellas, how did that workout for him? I didn't do That's that's true. That's true. Had a run. Don't do that. Don't do that, don't do not have this moment. Let's not see here. They put his name in the middle and then they kicked him out. What do you want? What do you want? Him like? I don't think. Well. A couple of fun facts about Jody. See there's a fifth member, oh is fat I don't I've never seen him, but he's a guy. I can't remember his name, but he was on the original the original demos of the songs that they recorded that they took to Andre Horrell when they were all going to go up to New York. He was he was gonna go with them, and he his girlfriend got pregnant, and they were like, well, hangback, bro, we're gonna go up there. Take care of this business. I don't know if he if he, I think, let's to be fair, I think he was like, I need to stay with my girl. They were like, cool, we'll go handle this. It will send for you when it's when it's all about to go down. But Andre Horrell was like, I like this this two sets of brothers thing. It's just gonna be y'all. And that was that whoa, that's heartbreaking. Yeah. And the other thing is that DeVante I believe at one point he was dating I just thought this was the weirdest thing. He was dating the daughter of a you know, hardcore evangelist, one of the popular ones. I think it was Jim and Tammy Faye Baker. No, their daughter, Yo, that guy that's like forever cements him being a legend. To me, that's the most amazing thing I've never heard that. I don't know. I mean, they're both they were both from like Tentecostal churches, so they were you know, before you celebrate too much, I will say that that is technically the formula to making a light skin R and B singer is Davante mushing into Jim and Tammy Faye Bakers. Which is another song that I think was on Kevin's demo, mushing in Big. That was one of my big that was That was an alepside lipsies after It's a Black Thing. When you're putting the album order together, you gotta go it's a black things. Mushing in. I'm trying to remember some of the other titles that I can't. There was a song called Stalking. It was not about Nope, not about that. I didn't want to say it, but it was. It was about It was like about It was a very militant pro black song. Yeah, it was not about the other thing. There was something called the Same. I wrote a lot of a lot of like romantic love ballads. I was that dude just kind of floating around in the you know, there are two kinds of R and B cruise. There are sexy there's the sexy boys and the sad boys. And I felt kind of in between the you know what I mean, like because like you have boys two men. You were more boys, Yes, you were musician. We I was a sad boy. Yeah. I mean like, this is the thing that fascinates me about the boys to men's trajectory is that they came out at the same year as Jody See. They were before Joe to See, I believe, and they were they hit their stride and then Jody See stepped out and just them overalls and nothing else and doing the whole thing, and everyone was like who are they? And boys the men were still on bended knee like, hey, hello, you like just to watch the audience leave Boys to Men and go to Joe to see. It was a very interesting well, I will say I think Boys the Men played it right in that, like Joda see took their shirts off, and then boys the Men were like, we'll put more sweaters on scruly where cardigans on top of cardigans? Yeah, we're not gonna play this game with you little tiny buff boys and Joda you can't tie a bow tie? They were all like, skinny ass dudes. I think it. I don't think if it came down to it physically, Boys to Men would give Joe to See the word. I don't know about that. That stick? Are you serious? They didn't have this. Michael had this stick because he needed it because he was in crippling pain walking around trying to sing. Yeah, he had some he had like some physical disease that like made it so that he needed the cane and then tried to be sick. So one of the things I did think to research in relation to this topic, and there isn't a lot that I felt like I could really unpack this this new territory. Yes, the one of the things that I found is that research does show that in terms of anatomical representations, representations and textbooks, one point one percent of the diet rams represented our dark skin tones, while eighty three point five percent represented light skin tones. Us. Your talent, your talent. Yeah, I seen one guy who looked like me on TV. It was me. You were the first in your entire life that you saw on that looked like I mean, it was big on that episode of Martin it was rock towards the end when he got thicker. Ah, what's about it? Damn? This is how you're talking about a big dude and dark skin dudes, big dark Yeah. Man, you face on love, face on Love, had a big farenthood Gary Anthony Williams. Yes, yes, on his big I think his big thing was his big start was Malcolm in the middle, you know. Yeah, but yeah, you're right. Not a lot of no what's his face family? The dad on family matters, Carl Winslow, it's it's something uh something vein, Yes, thank you, Reginald Beljohn. That's it. There you go, But there's not. I think That's where I'm coming from. Also, it's that there's just not a lot of representation, so you sweep it all together. You know what I mean, And to that, researchers note in relation to this textbook there you're not necessarily to to what you're speaking to. But I imagine it has painting me in the corner. I think there's some correlation that you could create. The researchers note that such skin color bias has a negative impact on the health outcomes of people with dark skinned tones, who may avoid or delay sexual education opportunities or clinical care if they do not see themselves represented in the recommended resources. I wanted on WAX. I learned about sex early, but the other things. But that's crazy that that if you don't see yourself, you don't then learn to your see yourself in sex textbooks. You then will will opt not towards like sexual health and responsibility, at least based on the research and to the larger concern, if you're not seeing yourself be sexy on TV, you will then not know the language or how to apply the language of sexy in your your other everyday ship. That's facts. Though I had to go out and get it myself. You do have to like, like like to that end. Like it was like until I had been sexually active for a bit I had always viewed my skin as a detriment because that's the only way it had ever been. Like like, not just the lack of dark skinned people on television, but then to go to the lack of like like seeing a super dark dude get a girl on on TV is like seen an Asian dude get a girl on TV. It doesn't happen very right, But then do you think that's potentially why? And this is a reach, Like there are so many dark skinned singers who I at some point, let's just say, from the Joe to see point on just leaned into the sexualization of themselves and their music because it was something that might not necessarily have been out there for a while, are you? I mean, I can just I can just remember a time when I to listen to two R and B singers and being like, hey, y'all need to calm the hell that we are not doing that, you know what I'm saying. But because they were all doing every one of them was like, let me tell you what, I'm a dudey, you know, it's like hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, I'm nineteen, Like wait a minute, child, you know, Yeah, I wonder that's a good question. I mean there's always been hyper sexualized black sing result. You take it back to right, Teddy Pendergrass when we did concerts for women for a while. Right, Oh, that's right, right, So that was a rule he made that, like you couldn't come to his concert if you want a woman. Well that was his manager's Chef Gordon being like, I believe it was Chef Gordon. Somebody can quote me if I'm wrong, but that was his manager being like, that's what we lean into a dent. Wow. Yeah, I think it was like an invite thing, like if you're a man, you could come, but you yeah, do you what do you think you? Yeah, Teddy p ain't talking to use like yeah, one brother back their arms folded, like all right, all right, okay, you warned me fair enough. So so I guess the question that I sort of have BORI uh, and I'm directing this one at you, But Kevin, I'd love to hear your thoughts as well. Is given given what we know now, are you starting to at least reconsider statistically the difference, what consider the possibility that this is more about treatment inside of it than it is about the actual statistics of light skinned people being naturally inclined for R and B. I mean, my whole life is a journey of learning. I'm open to that, you know what I mean. I'm not gonna sit here. I think that I think that a lot of these things about representation, though, I think it lends people to telling young people which direction to move in because of representation, where it's like, if you're more inclined, maybe the visibility is there, but you're still more inclined to think that this is this type of thing for this type of person. I think that that is the type of thing that children internalize a lot exactly what I mean. I think. I think definitely that is the case. Absolutely. I mean, look, the whole reason I'm in a singing group is because when I was a kid, my mom I saw a new addition on TV and was like, look at these little kids singing, and I was like, oh, so little kids can do this. I mean, that's exactly how it happened. That's the only reason I was. I got excited about someday doing that. So yeah, I think, but my I just I just wonder because yeah, I don't believe. I think it's the opposite. I think, you know, clearly it seems like they're more dark skinned singers popular dark skinned singers than there are light skinned and I just wonder, and that was the whole reason I brought this up. You're not trapped in here with me. I'm trapped here with you. You want to be the way around I'm the victim. I do. Then, I do think to that larger point, there is a weird association even as a light skinned person, now that we are clearly the victim in this story, as a life skanned person, it is that weird thing of people being like light scanned R and B singing motherfucker, and it's like, dog, it's only like three of us, and one of them is I'll be sure, like it's not. We're not hitting great numbers here. Truly, John B was a white man. He scammed you all, like, yeah, he's not even be not black. You just have a lineup that Yellow Dog all for one, that song, that's that group all for one. Those were white guys. They weren't. Those weren't black. Even better, they were Asians. I think I they'll call me on it, but I think they were Asians. I at one point thought New Kids on the Block was black because I heard that. I heard the first that please don't go girl, and a little Joey McIntyre singing that fall out. I just assumed black. First of all, there were no white kids. There are no white guys out there doing that at the time, so I just like another group black kids. And then I saw him, and I was like, what is happened? Yeah, not at all. In fact, one of them, uh is at least the brother to a deeply racist man who's now become a lovely uh I guess actor and household names. Yeah, it's word on the street. But the point is, I think that some of this is a little bit coming from from our expectations of each other more than it is our actual like knowledge of each other. Right. But but to go even beyond that, there is a weird thing where I mean, look going back to the days of the Cotton Club, where in entertainment the light skin folks were put out front and and so I think it's hard to sort of shake that, even if in the it's weird like TV TV light skin music back in the day, you know, uh, light skin. But in between there's been this space in between that where it's been occupied by a lot of dark at least music in the music world, it's been occupied by a lot of dark skinned folks, and I think that's that's a hundred percent fair And something that we can't we can't skip past, right, is that there is a a priority placed on light skin performers in a lot of different spaces, and especially more visual spaces, right, Yeah, exactly, especially especially back in the day music was a lot less visual, you know what I mean, you didn't necessarily know what Casey looks like, but you didn't know what exactly there. There's a very intentional choosing of who will become our representation, and then it would be unfair to not acknowledge that. But statistically, Luther Van draws, Baby, that's the best that ever did it darker than that? Yeah, but you know, I mean, I think also there's a component of a threat is more threatening when it's visual and so on, you're gonna see more light skin you know, quote unquote non threatening folks on TV. They you know, I think White America was able to look the other way and we're not worried about what these R and B singers are doing. They're doing that thing and and so and especially you know, music being as segregated as it was for a long time, it was like, sure, we ain't worried about it. And so you saw a lot of dark skinned artists breaking through and really not taken over, but just you know, they we're everywhere the you know, dark skinned artists like you said, I don't remember lights can do them, the Temptations or you know, or or whatever. And so it almost is like there was a time when the you know, the Dude and the Sky's Scraper was like, let's just leave them to their own devices. Yeah, in a in a yuckier way. It also then reminds me the transformation it makes, because I think you're absolutely right. There was a period where they were just like the Four Tops, the Delfonics, the Temptations, that I'll be dark, we don't give a ship that's there there stuff, And then at some point it became a and RS figuring out a way to sell this thing, package this thing. And it doesn't feel dissimilar to like the white rapper conversation, right there are not more white rappers, but the white rappers that make it get elevated in a way that makes you feel like, yo, what the fuck is happening. That makes it so that they that, whether he's talented or not, there's no reason this individual should be so far ahead of everybody else at his same level caliber whatever. That's exactly it. Yeah, I mean it's similarly, you know, and I'm not familiar with these groups, but I you know, I've heard about this, the idea that in the fifties or sixties, there would be the you know, whoever out there, you know, insert whatever black scene group out there doing their thing, and then they would find a white yeah sort of mirror what they did. Yeah, exactly, and so right, yeah, yeah, so I mean I think I think, yeah, you know, the business side of music has always figured out a way to go, all right, let's let them do their thing, and we're gonna elevate our people, and you know, and sort of it's what literally happened with singing groups. It's what literally happened with I mean, there was no such thing as a boy band before, just it wasn't a thing. And then new kids in the block showed up, and white people never really heard of this, what what what is it? There was like boys and it's a boy band, I guess, right, And now everybody who was in a singing group is a boy band, right, because the nobody was calling the Beatles a boy band. But it's the same formula of four handsome guys and yeah, handsome for that time period there uggoes to me and and always will be, but handsome for that time period got together and had women swooning over their their popular music. It's not like a foreign concept. So so what I'm if I'm here, if I'm hearing you fellas correctly, I think what we need today is like an R and B group of like for ugly ass light skin dudes. I like this, rights, that's what we need to change the narrative. We need four Maybe old kind of hushed it down, like yeah, because they needed boys to men body, boys to men bodies. Uh. I want them to have a C section, scars under their eyes. I wanted to be real bad. One's got acne like adult acne, and then one's got a dolte races. Yeah. They they've got to look like all the stages of Little Wayne, uh, spread out across for four men, maybe just you know, uh, just for for shipping giggles. One of them has a bluetooth in their ear at all, yeah, that both. Maybe one of those belts. You remember those belts. He would wear that light up and they they say, with the name plate that says your name across. That's right, going back to a light Skentuckstan. Now, come on, brother, we all I did not have a name one Okay, okay, I didn't have one. Though I did not have one. I did not have one. I didn't I didn't either. I thought about what I would program. Hey, none of us, none of us have done horrible things in our lives. We all, we all made the perfect choice. No, that's not you can't do that to me because I didn't have a nameplate belt. I think that's not I think in the middle of in the middle of my civil rights speech, you went, well, I don't agree with that part. I didn't have a digital nameplate belt. You can't vaulte me for that. Man. I got it. I understood the look. You get a long sleep white tea with like a rapper on it. You do a French French right, But don't you dare call it a French stuck. Don't you go, hey, fellas, here's a French stuck. No, you can't tell people it's the French too. But you know, I know I didn't know what you were talking about, and yet I knew exactly what you meant. Yeah, man, I googled French tuck not seven days ago. I learned it from Tan french On unclear. I somehow just knew it. I don't think that's good. It's inherent. Oh boy, it's inherent. Another French stuck. It's inherent for light skinned people to do R and B. It's there are in certain things that are just God made, you know. I mean, look, I'm living proof I did it. We all are living one finger in my ear, the whole the whole deal. You did that. Langston had a nameplate belt and I played offensive line. There's a lot of us whore just we're just we're just living the lives that we would. We're trying to We're trying to get break out of our boxes. You know. Yeah, this is it does feel like those those Choose your on adventure books where you're always gonna die, you know what I mean, You're never gonna make it to the end and get in the rocket ship. Something bad was gonna happen. Well, Kevin, before we before we wrap this thing up and I think I think we nailed this episode. But I think we got it. Oh, I think so. I think there should be a textbook and on that. They should just transcribe this. Oh yeah, put it in a museum somewhere. Look, let me ask you this question, because it sounds like, was your brother apart of the group as well? Was that? Were you guys in this together? No? He um no, but he did a weird thing. We're like. He then told me he had joined some group and I never got to the bottom of it, got to the bottom of it. I just remember he one I came home for like the holidays, and he was like, he was in college and he was like, yeah, they called me sexual chocolate And I was like, whoa, Okay, You're like college is crazy, bro, That's what he was like. He was very excited about that, and I didn't want to hear it, and uh, but there we were stuck in that moment together. So he I think he did it briefly and then it was it was not a He definitely took on the R and B character, if not the the actual R and B singing that you did yourself. Yeah, I think he went through a lot of that stuff like he just sort of He's like, I'm gonna try this, and I'm gonna try this, and and then he went and like immediately after college, got a real job and uh, you know, about a house, and got married and did all the things. I guess the larger question comedy. But I mean that's because he got to live out his fantasy and sexual chocolate. Yeah yeah. If I if I wouldn't dumb old Langston Carman and I got to be sexual chocolate, I'd probably out of landed a little differently as well. Oh are you kidding me? Bro, I'd be like I'd be one of the top regional sellers of gard insurance, right, I'd be so you see, my sexual chocolate would be on your name tag though, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, Or that would be on the plaque that they give you for making your numbers. It would also be on on my digital digital readout. Yeah, there you go. I guess the big question that I want to ask is any regrets about the R and B group? Where are you at in turn of the full circle? You're a grown man. You've you've moved on, you make great comedy. Now you do all the things that are opposite of what this is. Is there any part of you that's like this, This shouldn't have been part of the German Yeah, I mean I think about what I wanted then, and I go, well, i'd be done by now, I think. I mean, you know, I saw a new addition in concert like a month or two ago. They are one of the few groups that's still just out there doing it. But I, you know, I if our group had become successful, I think we might have had a moment and then we would have been gone, like a lot of groups where and then I don't know what i'd be doing. Maybe i'd still be doing stand up maybe, I you know, but I think I try not to regret the trajectory, even though I overthink it a lot. I think that's part of being in this business, being an artist. Why maybe I should have done this, you know whatever. But but I'm glad I that was I got to live a dream for a minute, and now I'm onto doing other things to live in other dreams. So that's a beautiful, that's a beautiful that's a nice way for us to wrap this thing up. And look, if all else fails, I'm still light skin y'all. That's what I needed to and I think we did it, y'all. Kevin, could you tell the people at home where they can find you on what cool ships you have going on? Uh? Yeah you can. I'm I'm one of those people who's on Twitter, but some for some reason doesn't tweet. But I'm at Kevin Avery on Twitter if you want to follow nothingness. Otherwise, you can find me on Instagram at Kevin Avery Comedy and The Great North is on Sundays at Fox at eight thirty. I think we're on hytus now, but all are up so drawn Hulu, so go there and check out the show. And I'm even on the show from time to time. Look for my buddy Jarvis Dufrayne and uh yeah, that's that's it. The streets, hit the streets. Follow Kevin, uh and obviously watch The Great North? And then David, where can they find you? What you got going on? Ah? You know? Follow me on Instagram and cool Guy Jokes CD seven. I sometimes post, you know, things I've been grilling, places I go stand up dates. July. I'm gonna be at the DC improv. I don't know when this comes out, but I assume around man and other than that, you know, just hug your people. Have a good summer. Hell yeah, have a good summer. Hug your people. Go see David performed live. And as always, you can follow me in like Stinkerman on all platforms. And if you want to send us your drops, your conspiracy theories, your degrading opinions about the work that we're doing, you can send it to my Mama pod at gmail dot com. We would love to hear from you. All right, we did it by bitch, because of growing babies. My crop chips in your bails O. Koala bears are racist. The host players lost money, many attorney stuff I can't tell me.