My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia HardstarkRewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 35: A Small Foreign Faction
It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia!
This week, K & G recap Episode 35: A Small Foreign Faction when Karen and Georgia reflected on the circus surrounding JonBenét Ramsey’s life and death. Listen for all-new commentary, case updates and much more!
Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode!
Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder
Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder
TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder
Now with updated sources and photos: www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes/rewind-with-karen-georgia-episode-35-a-small-foreign-faction
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories, and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921.
The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
Hell, hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
That's right. This is our new Wednesday show where we recap our oldest episodes, but we add in all new commentary and case updates and insights.
And today we're recapping episode thirty five, which we named a small foreign Faction, which sounds familiar to a lot of you. So this episode we did a little differently. It's just one story that we kind of discuss and talk about together, and we discuss the CBS documentary about the murder of John Binney Ramsey. That's right.
It was such an epic documentary that came out. We both knew it was coming. We were excited to see.
It, so we're like, yeah, let's just talk about this.
So it's one of the rare episodes when we're not telling each other surprise stories we broke for I'm at.
Yeah, I like it. With big cases like this, there's so much to talk about, so why not so join us now as we take you back to September twenty second, twenty sixteen, a Thursday unlike any other. And now we're going to listen to the intro of episode thirty five. Shall we?
Oh?
Yeah, Okay, yeah, what was going through your mind?
Just Oh, I was thinking about my old roommate who's the scream sneeze, And I was getting legitimately angry about the amount of time I spent with people I didn't like in the nineties because I was on drugs and drink.
Maybe you weren't drugs and drink because you couldn't stand the most of the people you were around.
I think that had a lot to do with it. And yet I felt very.
Like suit fakely loyal or something, or like like I was supposed to make it work out somehow.
But yeah, if you're friends with the scream sneezer, cancel the friendship immediately. It's the most obnoxious habit in the world world, Like, what happened to you that you need attention when you sneeze?
My mom?
What happened to her?
I don't know, but she screams sneeze. Wait she listens. We can't talk about her, Mom, Mom, she knows, she knows what she fucking did to me in my life.
It is because it's just you know your sneeze is coming. If you're a scream sneezer, I don't. She's so all of a sudden, it's someone screaming.
She loves attention. There's no you're completely right about that. Yeah, like that's a thing, that's a that's a connection. Yeah, Mom, I love you, but Jesus fucking Christ, I mean she knows, she doesn't care. Do you think a lot of people think that they just started this podcast accidentally, like skipped the beginning of this, and really that was the beginning.
That was the beginning. We're trying new beginnings. It's called complaint. We're just a hard complaint at the top, angry complaining. Then we go into our pre written intro. Go ahead, Georgia.
High, Hey, thanks for tuning into my favorite murder. My name is Georgia hart Stark and my name is n Kilgera, And this is pre We've been practicing this for months.
We wrote it and then we sent it off to a professional editor. They sent back some suggestions. Yep, God, that was a great beginning of a podcast.
You're welcome for being fucking professional. That's why this episode's so expensive for you guys.
Yeah, that's right, because of this amazing high quality writing.
How much money we spend, we don't even.
Say, have we said the words my favorite murder yet I think I mentioned it.
Okay, get get geh uh anyway, do you.
Want to just kick right into corrections corner?
Absolutely? I have one.
You go ahead.
No, no, okay, because I actually I do have like one that I did I fucked up last week? Oh by not like so I'm trying to steal my thunder why would you do so? This mass shooting in Australia led to crazy strict gun laws, which is amazing. And everyone who messaged me was like, we thought that the Sandy Hook shooting was going to be the same incident, right, and we think you're a terrible place because it wasn't. But here's ours, here's this positive thing and it's great, amazing and we're all very happy with me.
Did you tell them about our saltwater taffy? Because we can be pretty great when we try.
Yes.
Yes, there are people are who have major problems getting guns to kill children specifically.
Yeah, they don't have the problem is they don't have major problems getting guns.
No, I meant they have problems in their lives. Yes, they are getting guns and how.
Yeah, and however it's very easy for them to get guns, even they have major problems.
It's totally fine for them to get guns.
Let's talk about gun control.
Yes, who doesn't love to hear all about that?
All right? What's your correction's corner?
Mine is the simple fact that Peoria is not three miles away from Chicago, but three hours. And I swear to fucking Christ, every single person in the Midwest texted and tweeted and told me about it, personal friends, distant strangers, everybody who could possibly say it was let and they were saying it as if I had said Abraham Lincoln was our first present. Like, excuse me, Peoria is not three miles away.
Karen as the as the other half of this podcast. Oh yes, I'm exonerating you from that needing to be a fucking thing for you to apologize for.
Sometimes when I'm reading off my Wikipedia print out, my eye will tell me something that isn't there on the church.
That's what I'm saying, And like, okay, all right, so we're in Los Angeles. If someone said that at San Francisco is three hours from here, would you say no? Would you tell them it's six hours? And would it make it different? No?
You know what I would do? I would withhold the true information, and then I would gloat.
There you go. Yeah, I would say I'm better than that person. Secretly everyone it's just to be more selfish. Yeah, they do there gloat more said it. Talk to us. Late in episode thirty five, Karen and Georgia just became real, mean, they just became a big asshole.
It was weird. They went into gun control ship and then they just got rude. And that's when I said, I've had it. Here's a positive, because it's not all like that with it.
I have a positive to go ahead.
Do you really well? My positive? You know about But let's fake and pretend like you've never heard this story before. So Stephen hasn't heard it. Stephen, I'm not looking at you anymore. Stephen, don't look at me. So I was doing something working probably and then killing time before I had to go somewhere else. So when I have an hour to kill, I go to J Crew or some such place where I can get a long sleeve of cotton shirt.
Real quick, haters, this is not a fucking adaid us to do.
No, we're not sneaking an add in on.
No, we haven't done that yet. And we were for the right money we're blatant. Yeah, that's right.
They haven't paid us enough to sneak an add in on you yet yet. So I go over to the Grove. If you are not have never visited Los Angeles or not from around here, the Grove is like.
They three hours away from three hours from the heart of Los Angeles is a mall where they basically tried to make it if there was a small town where everyone was obsessed with shopping, and that's what the Grove looks like.
There's a train or a trolley or something gardens. So anyhow, I go into j crewe try to get myself a shirt and the guy, the first guy that says how are you or do you want me any help? And I'm like, no, no, leave me alone. And then he asked me again a little bit later, and I'm like, does he think I'm a shoplifter? I've worked retail, I know what this. You're patrolling me?
Yeah?
And then finally he came up and he goes, what's your name? And I go Karen, And he goes what's your last name? And I go, what are you doing? Never tell them your last name? And then he goes, are you from the podcast? My college murder and yes, and then he lost his mind on me and he told me this is the thing that got me. So, look, we are having some nice success with this podcast. It's very, very exciting. It's quite bewildering, and it's just like a weird it's just weird. But I didn't think we were to the level of people recognizing us from a podcast at the Grove.
No, that's that's The Grove is like the biggest it's like the it's like tourists go there. Yes, it's like a big thing.
Mario low business this show from there.
A fucking Lopez does a show from there.
It's a high end recognition spot.
Definitely.
So Trey, who is the young man who is talking to you?
Trey, you think they're listening right now? Oh?
Yes, I do, because what he told me was that the j crew of the Grove listens to our podcast when they shut down at night and have to fold down the store. Love you, so they He couldn't believe that no one that he closes with was there to see you.
Think that they all think he's lying. And now this is happening.
Well, girl, we took a picture to prove and then someone wrote to the Twitter age and said, I can't believe I wasn't on shift when Trey met Karen from my favorite murder, and the whole thing was just this super cute. He was so happy. It just is so wonderful. Yeah, we see people that excited, and well, yeah, that was the cutest thing. Stephen is At one point he was just asking me all these questions and stuff, and.
Then at one point he goes, where's Georgia right now? I was just like, I honestly don't know. That's so cute. All right, So we're gonna do a personal appearance. We're gonna do surprise drop in.
Oh what a j crew close closing shift drop in at the grove?
Yeah right now, and then everyone hurts her under the door. But we're not there. Where's shoplifting.
I'm going to go in there and shoplift and see if anyone says a word in my face.
You know they won't.
So deal with that level, Stephen. Get on this level of fame that we're now all on.
Stephen, You're gonna get recognized next, not me, hope. So no, I'm waiting for someone to yell to me like transaction or like a thing, and then for somebody yell stay sexy, because like that would be That's my dream, is that someone doesn't say they recognize me, doesn't say listen to the podcast. But when I'm leaving our interaction, our transaction or whatever the fuck a parking lot, they yell at me. They do a shout out, and I will fucking scream at the top of my top of my lines, don't get murdered.
Will you scream sneeze at them at the top of the line, at.
The top of my nasal passages.
You know. It's funny though, Like my friend Alison Agasti, who I work with, love the shit out of She's the greatest.
Uh and I work with her and I walked into our writer's room the other day and there's like, you know, nine people and there or whatever, and she goes, I was listening to your podcast.
And then I got all embarrassed and like shut her down basically, and I later had to go sorry.
I received that thanks correctly.
I was like, it was it's that thing where like it's super exciting and I don't want to overly be like, let's talk about it for five minutes because I'm of course I'm so judgmental of others that I'm positive I'm going to get that judgment.
But well, I keep hoping my parents will then do it and I can be like, no, it's a great, it's a big and they don't care. Right.
Oh, I got my sister started listening. This is a miracle of all miracles is my sister Laura is now a listener and constantly texting me things we need to do, things we need to say, stuff we need to talk about.
Let's have older sister corner. Yes, how she boss, the older sisters are.
We should for sure. She had some very interesting observations about the John Benet special.
Hey, speaking of not to segue corner you right into what we're doing. But let's take a let's take a casual, super casual quick break. Did you just let me off? Oh you looked at your middle finger while you were taking a drink. It's very subtle.
I actually flip people off like this where I barely move my it's just a side finger is just very slightly let my middle finger up. It's more feminine.
I just remember in elementary school, because everything got scrutinized and everything you did was stupid. To everyone. Yes that like the way you flip people off was made fun of. Yes, so I just got really good at doing it correctly.
So you do the one where it's two shorter fingers. You don't pull all your.
Fingers, pull all your fingers down, dad, is the proper fuck you?
Oh, instead of this, Yeah, I don't know what that is. This is California.
It looks like a cute little bird, or so this is Nora, cal fuck you where you kind of leave your surrounding middle fingers up there like they're like between the first and second knuckle. This is so visual that we should not be talking through I mean, in insanity. Let's go, let's take a casual quick break and we'll teach each other our middle fingers, okay, and then we'll come back and you guys ready for Jean Benet all jeanbrenet all at the time.
It's Jean Benet time. Everybody, let's do it.
Oh, I wonder how Tray from j crue is doing these.
Remember that day so clearly in my mind it was truly like my hand on the doorknob of success, and Trey was the guy standing outside that door, going, oh my god, you're judging the doorknob. It was just like one of those kind of things where you dream of it and then it's actually happening in front of you.
So I'm being like, oh my god, are you from this podcast where.
I was like staring at him like this can't be what's happening?
Yeah, you're like, what are you talking about? Only Georgia and Steven hear that in the apartment we recorded what are you talking about? Person? I don't know?
And you're this excited and you're telling me. The staff of j Crue listens to this as you close the store down, which is something I used to do with the gap ye lo these many probably twenty five years ago, knowing.
What it feels like to be a retail worker.
That's just like how we're we going to get ourselves through the next three hours. And the idea that you and I were the solution to that, I mean, I.
Love that masolution. It's incredible because.
I love being a people's solution that they make us into, because it's very hard to kind of like churn that up yourself.
Yeah, you can't be your own solution, but you can be other people's solutions, and you can find solutions and other people in places and things, and so it's nice to be that.
It's very true. Also, speaking of solutions, the funniest thing is in this episode, I shout out my friend Alison Agosti, who has since been hired here at Exactly Right, and she is basically now the staff writer and writes a lot of the stuff that you see in here coming out of Exactly Right Media, and all the promos and all the different things that you hear, that's her.
It's crazy, she writes in the bullet point here in our details. Now I work here and we talk about the podcast every day. How do you like that, Karen? So She's like, yeah, she's in it. I also love and remember so well the like how do you flip people off conversation? Oh my god, well, I had no idea before that. There was like a different way.
To do it cause you were full of this, right, I'm full like I'm single finger, single finger, like pull the other ones down with your thumb, like as for as much impact as possible.
But you're like, you're like, curl the fingers to the side.
Mine is almost don't do it, yeah, but gesture toward people. I kind of do my flip off, like I have very nicely manicured nails, even though I never ever do I look like a gardener, But it's almost like the energy of nicely manicured nails and a lady that cut you off in traffic but is going to flip you off.
At the same time. It's always more of a fuck you to barely even bother with a middle finger than it is to give a like like what I do an excessively angry one, because it shows that I care, you really care, I really fucking care, and care what we mean is the word he hate. All right, So let's get into this really complicated conversation we have that like I can't wait to update because so many things have changed, except for the fact that we still have no fucking clue who did it, and I still am so all over the place about who did it and change my mind constantly about it. You know, Yeah, here we go. Let's get into our twenty sixteen review of the Jean Benet CBS special. How many there needs to be a code word for when we're not actually going to take it, because we always say, let's not take let's not do this, let's take it out but like when do we mean it? And when we don't? Oh, you like it?
Almost like a safety Yeah, they call that during sex like a safe word.
Yeah, because Stephen gets confused and he goes to write something and I'll be like, no, just kidding, believe that. But I take it as a challenge. Yeah, that's right.
You Stephen is the We leave this all up to Stephen and he beautifully edits. Do you imagine if he just had to, like the whole thing? Is this kind of insane bulk?
And then Stephen's our cult leader him, it's just whatever he says. Good, that's right.
Now.
I'm in the basement. I have no basement. We're in the basement. This is like the Alamo, and we're back. Let's make jokes and stuff and then get into something. We're real fucked up. Well.
People have been continually tweeting us since, like the ads for the Jambrenet specials started, Yeah, saying can't wait for it to hear what you guys say about all this?
Me too.
Then when I want to a ti vo it the other night, there were three choices.
I have a question, Yes, do you still have TiVo? Or do you just still call.
It that I call it that. Okay, it's my that's my verb of that, because I'm dvring is stupid.
Yeah, No, I find with the TiVo where I just didn't know if that was still a thing.
If I had the actual brand. Yeah no, I've drapped TV. Okay, because you must know.
Again, no one's paying us shit for any of this shit for fuck the ship for fuck. If they want to give us fuck for shit, then they can market, they can email mark this, Stephen, But what's this.
Screen sneeze?
Just kidding, all right? So yeah, so there you had multiple genres. There were three choices, and then I was like, oh, I don't know when I am met with that kind of a life challenge, which is choose which the correct made for TV docu series about John.
Beneze murders, Choose your own Jamine, I like totally turned the channel. I'm like, oh, look, Father Brown's on. Then I just watched something.
When I joked that it was a choose your own adventure that is actually completely correct because I've tried to watch a couple of them, and every single one of them is so clearly with agenda yes, pregnant with agenda yes, and some of them won't and I won't say who and what won't show the photos of her as a normal child.
Right, because yeah, that doesn't That doesn't serve what their their their media message of what they're talking about.
There's a video of her that to me, and I wrote in the thing I wrote that, like for l dot com, can I plug it? I just suddenly felt awkward about do it?
Get used to it.
I'm not plugging it. I'm just how fucking happy I am. And I might cry from like how good it feels because I started on live journal writings. I'm gonna be honest, and I didn't graduate community college.
And you wrote to amazing articles for l dot com that were so readable and so wonderful. They're on our twitter feed if you need to find them. They're great read.
Karen. That means so much coming for me because I'm curre an incredible writer, my friend, and that means a lot to me.
And my sister said the same thing, Oh my god. And she's a teacher who kind of can't spell. That means a lot to me, who kind of kids not even why she's listening.
I'm gonna do stuff like I would like to thank the editors of l for making me look like I know how to punctuate shit apostrophe ss will be the death of me. But they didn't. They made it not seem that way anyways. Oh yeah, in it, I was like, go, everyone stop and go look at photos of her as a normal kid. Yes, because it's a different fuck story. And there's this video of her that they show in slow mo of her mom. It's her as a little kid. It's like a home video. Her mom is scratching the top of her head and she nestles her head into her mom's leg. Have you seen this? No, And it's just so sweet and human and reminds me of me and my mom as a kid. And it's it's this like, goofy, sweet little girl whose mommy is is comforting her and doing this thing she probably does a lot, which is scratch her head.
You know, yeah, this thing, very maternal, very comforting thing. Now, was this before or after Patsy had dyed her hair blonde?
Because I didn't know. I didn't know I saw that that it was dyed. I don't know why.
And when the friend in a CBS one, when the friend talks about seeing John Beney for the first time with dyed blonde hair and Patsy being like, no, it's.
Just lying about it.
She lied about it. But then I thought, if she was murdered when she was six, she must have had that blonde hair for at least a couple months, if not a year before, which means someone died. A five year old's hair blonde bleached. I mean, bleaching your hair is disgusting. If you've ever had your hair dyed, women know it's like a very gross, intense chemical process on a five year old. That's crazy.
But I don't. But in the pageantry circuit, I don't think it's that weird, which was which she was in.
Yes, which is that weird? That's my That was my point is no one talks about that. The pageantry circuit is basically a strange, weird commercial for pedophiles. And there's no there's no reason you should have a six year old girl dressed like an Atlanta heiress or hairris Uh, there's no There's no reason we should be seeing a little girl basically cause playing an adult Richard.
But I okay, here's my thing with John Benet ramsaying the whole case is that I will argue the opposite of anything that's our yes, because there's such a huge argument because it's there's never going to be any conclusions yes, And every single piece of evidence, and I wrote some of them down has an argument for the other side, right exactly. And that's what I kind of love about this is because I really don't like being like, this is my opinion, and here's the argument why. And I won't listen to you in your opinion. It's like I'm not doing that, not you, No, no, no, no, no, I mean, like any other debate that people have.
Right, no, exactly, when you when people absolutely decide how they feel right and won't come off of it. No, I totally I agree that in every other way, except for it unnerves me how normalized the pageant system is, where it's it's only little girls.
But that's the thing is that it is normalized for certain people, including Patsy Ramsey who was a pageant queen and they're from the South. Yes, true, So it wasn't that weird to her. It wasn't like she was in her mind abusing this girl and dyeing her hair. It was like, I.
Don't think it's necessarily abuse. I just think it's a you're putting shit on a child, a little girl long before.
She needs to be dealing with it. Completely agrees with it. I just don't. It's just like when people present not you, when it is presented that there are there is proof that this is why these why she was murdered by the parents, and how fucked up facings were. I just don't think they are like a lot I agree.
No, no, I'm not. I'm not arguing that the pageants prove they did it. I'm arguing that the that dying a six year old's hair shows very bad decision making skills and just a weird Yeah, but these are people that, like I also didn't know they had two of their own planes. I didn't know they were the level of rich that they are.
If you're arguing that dying a four year old's hair blonde is proof that this parent doesn't have the best the child's best interest in mind, and therefore it makes sense why she would have been part of the maybe the murderer of the cover up. But I agree with you. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah, man, should we get into this? Yeah, we're I didn't tell you we're you want to start or should we are we starting? Then hit play? Can you delete? Oh?
Man?
I mean, okay, the CBS thing and here one of the rules on our Facebook group is don't talk shit about other podcasts. That's right. And the hosts of the CBS show have a true crime podcast.
Oh I didn't know that.
Yeah, Stephen Whon do you go ahead and look that up if you don't mind. I just think, uh so, I liked them a lot, and I think they had the best interests And I don't think I think they're inte and integrity based people. I just think that the moment you are clearly going for a certain what's the word agenda? Like agenda, you can't like the moment I saw that John Ramsey was being interviewed for one of the documentaries, I was like, I was out because he wouldn't agree to do it unless the agenda wash.
Yes, that's right.
So what did you think about Burke Ramsey's interview with I didn't watch it.
I watched close on Doctor Phil.
Yes, I smile launch it either, but you saw that he was smiling to me a lot of it.
Yes, I think that Burke Ramsey might be on the spectrum.
That's what I thought too. I don't think it's fair to I don't think smiling it's fair, isn't isn't a sign of any No.
That's nerves. Here's the thing. If you have been around TV or done TV, I've watched a lot of people act super weird on TV, especially. I don't know was that that whole thing pretaped like there was no audience when he was talking to doctor Phil.
Or no audience.
Yeah see. And I think I said this before. But the reason I didn't watch it is because I have a friend who is a producer on it, and she was like, nothing came of it.
They didn't reveal anything. So then I was like, oh, it's boring.
But then a bunch of people started to tweeting at us of like this behavior and all this different stuff.
It was definitely weird behavior, but I don't think it was indicative of someone who was guilty or innocent, or you can read anything out of it.
Is it was it weird for a person that has two planes.
I mean, like, this is the person that's never a word, literally, never done an interview before in his life, no, and probably never had to really be in the world in a real way in his life. And so I think the reason this whole interview happened is because they somehow knew that the CBS documentary was coming out that kind of pointed towards him. So this is like a quick fuck, let's let's get this out before it comes out. So he maybe didn't even want to do it.
No way did he want to do it.
He's freaked out. Oh god, oh my god, there's so much to talk about.
But he also, you know, he's already suing CBS, is he really? That's what someone told me at work today because we were all talking about this morning.
Yeap, yeah.
And because I said, everyone was talking about why possibly would they have reduced it from three or four episodes too? And I was saying it could have been a thing where they let them do it, but they said because they because I'm obsessed, of course with the pageant part and the and any kind of the any it felt like any they just dismiss any any kind of sexual molestation or anything. They just dismissed it out of hand, which seems very unlikely to me.
I wrote that in the l article that it's like.
Oh yeah, I'm ripping you off from the l arc con you not, I'm gonna see it was my idea.
I'm going to see you for what's it called when someone copies your shit?
Just copying?
Just see them make me sound smarter in that clip. All right, Okay, here's the looking for the button. I know your buttons. Here's the stuff I liked from that I didn't know about from the CBS show, I really loved. I love handwriting and linguistic analysis. I think it's fucking fascinated. Yeah. The fact that someone pointed out that no one would ever write that they were a small in faction. Yes, you make yourself seem bigger, you don't seem like you're a small little group of people. Yes, very interesting. And also no one calls themselves foreign right exactly.
And if you are a band getting together right now and you don't name your smell self small foreign faction, you're.
A fucking idiot. Yeah, punk crackers, get it together.
I know that phrase. There was like all those things about the phrasing and the like, and sorry if I'm jumping on this on yours, but I was freaking out when they got to the part where the ransom letter quotes.
Speed, dirty hairy dirty.
Harry, it is just like you. How So if if this is Patsy and John and they're covering up you know, the one theory that they were really shoving in your face on the CBS one, If that was true, then oh, they really think that they're so much smarter than everybody else that they can add in lines from the movie Speed and have nobody catch on.
They actually do, okay, really quick. Stephen was like brought his phone or me to show me a thing that I'd asked him, and I completely forgot what I had asked him. So I was like, what is he? I don't remember what I'm Okay. The podcast that the hosts of the CBS show do is Real Crime Profile, which I've listened to. It's a great podcast. Okay, yes, I agree, let's you know what. Let's okay, so let's start. Be ready to start. Let's what is your theory? Like overall? Like, what's your favorite theory? Oh? I think that I think it was Burke? Okay, how do we think? I think Burke got angry and didn't I don't think he meant to do it. No, I don't either. I don't think I think he wanted to hurt her. Yeah, I think that.
But a lot of the stuff that they named that was like, oh, you know, God forbid that he do this or that is all stuff little kids do. Brothers and sisters especially are really mean and vicious with each other. So like a lot of that stuff didn't freak out because it's it's like, yeah, yeah, you hit your brother or sister with a piece of train track or whatever. My sister and I used to I've talked about it before, getting getting into fights where you're being beaten with a remote control and shit.
The first time I got punched in the stomach was when I was like five by my sister. Yeah, like that standard thing because you as a kid, you don't know how strong you are, you don't know how much it hurts, and you're angry and you have no parential supervision. Yep. I wrote an article that met our friend Kat Sullen her brother bears her childhood teeth mark scar on his body because they were so angry that they did that. You just get angry at people.
But and also it's the thing of if he did that and he was super angry, and it does make sense that she's the little princess that gets all of the mom's attention, and he was older. It would have been different if he was younger, but he's older, so he was used to having all of her attention and not got kind of redirected, which is very painful and awful. If you all already was having a little bit of like developmental or if there's just some issue with like he's a little slow, or he's a little bit emotionally off, whatever it is.
Yeah, which which a lot of things I read say he was a little bit of a weird kid, which I mean, I grew up with a weird kid. I understand that they're weird. Yeah, yes, that does, let mean they're Yeah.
Here's the thing my sister said. She texted me and said, the thing with the feces is really bad. That's usually a sign of sexual molestage.
Now the wedding, the bed thing, so John Benet wet her bed regularly, they said, Brooke might have too. That to me is hard because I what my bed like right than I should have I did do. I sucked my thumb until like second grade. I was never molested, right, So it's you can't just say that definitively, No, But the shit thing.
Shit is a much bigger deal because even when you're little, you don't, uh, it's not natural to like. It was as if they were saying, and I don't know any more than what they presented on that, but it was as if they were saying, he would shit on her stuff or he would like wipe shit places. And my sister has been a grammar school teacher for over twenty years and she has a master's degree and like in developmental education or whatever. I'm not exactly sure, but you fix that, fix her degree, But essentially, this is what she does and deals with kids a lot that are going through this.
And she was just like, that's bad, that's that's the worst.
Thing she heard in the whole thing was anytime a kid has like got his hands and shit and he's not a baby.
Well, she had. This is the thing they revealed in the CBS thing is that she had a great fruit sized shit in her bed. Right. That sounds painful and fucked up and not normal. No, like he was collecting it or no. That she just saved having to go to that. She was so uncomfortable going to the bathroom that she waited until she was in bed.
Oh, I thought I thought he put it there from what oh, because they said the maid found it right, and I was thinking that he was like trying to wreck her shit because the other stuff will make her look like a gross Yes, can I say that?
Like I kind of I feel bad for Burke in this whole thing. It's very bad. And then I read something, you know, I made everyone on our Facebook group and send us their theories and send us what they found that was interesting in their thoughts and everything, and one of them was that Burke actually doesn't even know that He doesn't know that he caused that blow. He might have done it, and they were like, go to bed and he doesn't remember it. He may be somewhere deep down does, but he doesn't know that he put that whole thing into. Actually, I feel bad for this kid who clearly has some issues.
I think he knows something though, because remember that interview he has with the pop and he won't say the cops, yeah, what's in the bowl And he just won't say it, like he goes he goes.
Oh. So in the CBS documentary they show clips, which is like I could watch this for hours of uh of Burke being interviewed by a psychologist or social worker post like when he was a kid. The only time they was two times they let him be questioned, and in it, you know, they're talking and I actually it's amazing. They show him a photo of the table, the crime scene table, which has a bowl of pineapple out with Burke's fingerprints on it and in jam Benet's stomach after she died as an undigested piece of pineapple. And so the social worker the psychologist shows Burke a photo of the pineapple and says what is this or shows him the bowl of pineapple and he says, I don't know, it looks like cereal or something. And he says, well, what could that be? And then Burke goes, oh, like he knows not to say.
What it is. Yes, that's weird, but it's like a you know, a little kid thinking he's out smarting someone. Yeah, and there's this you're watching from this camera overhead. He also is in a very weird physical position in that chair.
He's very word physically, he's very antsy in a weird way. Yeah, but he gets down on all fours when he's looking at that picture, and I understand it's like a kid's way like almost like child's pose. But to me in that situation, it gave me the creeps, like it was just weird.
He was he wasn't.
He was very silted in his voice, but he looked incredibly comfortable.
It was almost chill.
He was chill.
It was weird.
How do we okay? So, like my theory in my mind, the mastermind of this whole fucking entire thing, which is that Burke unknowingly hit her over the head or throw a flashlight through. Someone mentioned maybe he didn't actually like hit her, maybe he threw this flashlight at her. Yeah, and this happened in it was stage. In my mind, the mastermind of the whole thing is not Patsy, who is bringing who is just being thrown out of the bus fucking completely in this whole thing. It's someone who's still alive. And so I'm scared to it's John Ramsy. It's John Ramsey. I really think John Ramsey is the fucking entire mastermind because and another thing I was thinking too is that like their interviews post right after what happened are creepy and fucking weird. The CNN interview, Yeah, like all of their like them calling the press to give an interview, and you had mentioned it before that that when someone asks to ask Patsy, who's clearly on fucking valum, Yes, she's on so many pills. Yeah, They ask her, do you think it was an outside intruder? And she's shaking her head and no, with her eyes closed, and the minute John says yes, she starts to nod yes, yeah.
She goes into this weird circle and then tries to like yeah it, but she also does her She's doing a lot of like long blinking yep, and it's almost like she just doesn't want to she just wants to disappear.
Well, here's what I think. Okay, I definitely think Patsy wrote the note, the ransom letter. It's not a fucking note, No, it's a four page I think Berke accidentally hit her. I think they conspired to cover it up, maybe with with John being the mastermind. I think he took her downstairs, Jean Manet's body downstairs, to you know, make it staged as a kidnapping. And I don't think Patsy realized the extent of how he covered it up. I think she thought he'd put a pillow over her face. She thought she would be suffocated. But when Patsy found out the extent of what he did to her body, I think then she and she still had to go with it. Yeah. I think that that's why she was so freaked out by it. I don't think she was like horrible, do you know what I mean?
Yes, And that's a horrible idea, like just that you would be put in that position as a mother.
Yeah.
The one that gives me more comfort because it's so much less tragic, and it's based on that nine one one dispatcher who suddenly was under a gag order for years and never talked to anyone.
No one ever tried to interview her.
But here's the thing that's weird to me. No one ever tried to interview her, and she wasn't under a gag order. So when was the gag order lifted that she can be talking on that.
I don't think it ever was. I think she was just like, all right, she's for it. I think once they exonerated the Ramseys, it was just gone.
Well. What was interesting to me is she said that that moment where Patsy thought she hung up the phone. I never knew about that either. That Patsy makes this nim moo moe call, which I didn't listen. Of course her snippets here and there. I can listen to it.
It's horrifying.
Well, and especially because it's it's bad acting. I from that alone, if you just made me guess off the NIE on one call, I'd say they're they're complicit in some way. But that that Patsy thinks. She hangs the phone up, and then they're recording what's happening in their kitchen, and the nine one one operator is on the line listening and trying to listen, okay. And the thing, well, just the one thing that that nine one on operator said was her tone. Once she was like, so hysterical and get someone here, get someone here?
Who are you?
Don't hang up the phone right when your child is missing and that's your lifeline. Hanging up the phone is crazy. And then b her vocal tone changes immediately to the point where that's what gave that nine one dispatcher the creeps, because.
Because she's hysterical, she's freaking out, she's not answering the nine on one dispatchers questions. The minute she says who are you, she clearly says, I'm She clearly states her name everything, I'm the mother, and clearly gives an answer.
Yes, Suddenly the hysteria isn't so out of control.
And it's true that I like this In the CBS documentary where they said you don't hang up on a nine one one.
Call, No, no one does.
No one hangs up. It's your lifeline.
That was the coolest part. I mean, I understand. Look, this is just like Jack the Ripper, where there's so many experts now and there's so many, so many theories that it's just out of control.
It's never going to I don't think it'll ever be solved.
I don't know unless there's some something gets dug up, like literally or you know, some hidden thing.
I didn't I don't hear what they I didn't hear at the end of the nine on one call, the hang up what is purported to be said by who, by anyone in the family. I believe the nine on one operator when she says I heard I thought I heard Patsy say I called I called nine, I called the police. Now, yeah, that sounds that sounds more believable to me than when they when they did the whole Gammick of slowing down the nine on one call and slowing down people heard in the background and whose voice is who's you hear what you want to hear?
Yes, that's very true. And also that part was ludicrous because well, if it was just TV. I mean, that's the part where I was just sitting there going, oh, they're really trying to stretch this out. I bet you when they cut that other stuff in the other episodes, they had to go back and like fill time or something because that was so loose. Chris, first of all, every sound editor in the world would watch that and just be like, these are the people I hate working with. You don't have to tell me that we need to go back and reduce the noise, because clearly that's until you can hear what people are saying. We have to keep on trying to clarify the clip. Yeah, like the idea that they were sitting next to that man going bring this down, bring this up to where it's just like, yeah, yeah, the guy actually knows how to use the machine.
And the moment someone tells you what they're hearing, you hear it too.
Of course, even if it's not there, and especially with something like this where it's like, oh, you're hearing Patsy Ramsey's voice, You're hearing John Ramsey's voice.
I just said, yeah. But at the same time, what they're arguing by hearing Brooke Ramsey's voice at the end of that is that he wasn't in bed. And I have a lot of problems with the idea that he was in bed through the whole time, because A, why when you just found out that your child is kidnapped and gone, would you let your other child be somewhere else? You would grab the other child and make sure they're buy your fucking side. That's the first thing you would do, the first thing you would do. Yes, why didn't he get out of bed when he heard his mom flipping the fuck out to see what was going on and what was wrong?
Well, what he said in those interviews is he's a real deep sleeper all the time, always, right. He's using words like I'm always always, I never hear anything.
I'm always a deep sleeper, okay, correct. Yeah, So that's why would they lie about that, Because they're lying because the whole thing is bullshit. And I mean that kind of thing where like the nine one one dispatcher heard things that even if she didn't hear exact words, like she was talking about the vocal tone change, so she knows that Patsy thought the phone was hung up and suddenly the act was dropped, and that's what she was hearing. Maybe she got the words wrong or right, we don't know, but like that in and of itself.
Also when Burke goes, what did you find?
Right?
That little quote which you can hear pretty clearly, but it's like it's such a weird little voice, like he's you don't hear it?
Did happen?
Sounds scared, he doesn't sound upset. He sounds like someone that's going through that with not a.
Lot of worship. Okay, so what about Okay? Why would let's say that they all had something to do with it? She wrote the nine one one, I mean the ransom letter. Why would they call nine one one immediately without getting rid of the body in the morning, Like why wouldn't they Why wouldn't he have taken the body out and disposed of it?
I mean, who the fuck knows? Because I think it's because it's still their daughter, So they're not going to leave their daughter a garbage dump.
Problem with this case too, is that there's so many things I've heard about, For example, that there was a book turned, there was a dictionary in someone's study turned to the word incest. The only place I've ever seen that is in you know, forums of people writing about the case. I've never seen that in a actual, you know, crime scene write up.
Yeah, that sounds like something a seventh grade girl would say.
Yeah, there's so much shit and there was a book open on the desk, you guys, there was so much shit. There is so much shit that I'm like, well, I heard this thing was what they found, but it's not in the autopsy report, So why would it?
Because it's like weird gossip because people start talking about stuff like this and suddenly it takes on a life of its own. But here's the thing I thought, when they were going over all those the crime scene footage, who the fuck sees that their son killed their daughter with by hitting around the head with a flashlight, takes that flashlight, sticks it on the kitchen counter and leaves it there. That's the thing that you would dump and get rid of. And that's the thing that baffled I kept saying, is this picture from earlier where they just know for a fact they own this flash light.
But here but okay, well, I'm gonna immediately argue the other way. Do it because I can and I like it. Yes, you're fucking freaking out. You had to start a ransom note twice three times because as you're freaking out, you don't think to move this one piece. I just don't think you think everything through and there's no blot on it, as they showed by having the fucking most fucked up kid in the world hit a goddamn mannekin with pigskin and a wig.
All of that was like, all of that, I say, shame on you, CBS, because that was not necessary.
It was super creepy.
He looked like a little child actor, but his eyes were a bit wild. The whole thing of that was gross.
Honestly, that whole time, I felt so bad for the hosts because I was you can tell that. The producer was like, you have to fucking do this, y, and both the hosts were like, I'm I'm a fucking journalist, I'm a fucking like we're trying to Yeah, we're and you need this clip.
A six foot cop who was two hundred pounds is being tased to show what it might have been like for Jean Beneit, which is like, sorry, none of this equates this.
That that, And when they were in a parking lot and the host we're gonna go speak to the Ramseys that couldn't be recorded, and there was a whole like five minutes of that of them waiting around in the parking lot for the host to come back and talk about unnecessary. The whole thing was unnecessary.
It was they were I think they were trying to be verite, but it was also they're like, so we've got this insane interview that we've been waiting for, but the guys like, not on camera, but I'll tell you what I know. Yeah, you just can't record it. So they need to They need the the what do you call it? Like, they need the authenticity of the fact that they got this huge get that's legitimate.
Like this is legitimate because we're actually speaking to them.
It also shows to me, as a person that's worked in TV for a long time, the run and gun style where you have to make up solutions on the fly, and if you were thinking it would be cool to work in TV, just go and look at Eddie Schmidt, the producer of this show, standing in the Safeway parking lot watching all the beautiful SUVs drive away while he stands there with the cameraman.
For four and a half hours, probably waiting. Yeah, they ate a bunch of Safeway donuts and just kicked it, waiting to find out what happened, because that's what it's really like. And you know what, Okay, here's a fucking thing. Maybe they did talk to the fucking Whites on camera, and the Whites said the same thing they always say, very fucking you know, bullet pointed, and it wasn't as interesting, and so they said, let's pretend like they wouldn't speak to us. Yes, that a thing.
Well, yeah, because the thing that I was shocked by. Another piece of information was that fleet White wrote an open letter telling John Ramsey, you need to cooperate with the police.
Totally.
That's crazy. They were. The Whites came over the morning of the murder. Yeah, they wereups of people.
All after the phony nine to one call.
And fleet White was with John Ramsey when he found Joon Benny's box.
I wonder if those two people feel used as fuck? Well they were, Yeah.
They were, because that's Another thing they talked about is that's a very common thing. Invite someone in to witness you finding the body.
You don't find the body alone. If you've done it, you bring people into witness. Yeah, that was fucking fascinating. Yes, there's a lot of like if you choose to look at it through this one angle, which I think we should do the opposite in a minute too. I think we should look at it from an intruder angle.
But in that way a man who has two planes. First of all, a sidebar for people for millionaires, a millionaire's house is kind of a shitty house, like there was. It was clearly pre the declutter trend of the mid two thousands because there was so much shit everywhere, and it was like there was like fake autumn leaves that were plastic in a drawer that was hanging down from the top of a like shelving system. It was like, what, sorry, you're rich, what is this house? And when they went to like open Jombannes's bedroom door, there were all those handmarks on the outside.
Did you see there was.
Like a fingermarks or like kids grabbing the door. It just was like it was weird to me. And this whole time when they say her body was found in the wine cellar, yeah, I'm picturing a wine.
So now that was the most depressing creepy room I've ever seen it.
It was the cement room where they threw old shit and maybe kept some wine. I don't know, but like it. The whole thing was there was a lot of cognitive dissonance.
Can I tell you When they were doing the like walkthrough of it, I was the kicking. I watch a shit ton of agh TV, and the whole time I was like, well, you take down this wall and you'd open the basement up so it could be like a man cave and it'd have an open concept thing, and the spiral staircase is so dated and unnecessary. Like the whole time, I was like thinking of the property brothers being like, you take the fucking.
Wall down, the spiral staircase, it looks like something that would be in my hometown, in a house that was left over from nineteen sixty five, Like it is so weird and tacky, and like, if you've ever gone down one of those metal spiral staircases in a house, it feels like you're gonna die there.
You're gonna fall fucking face forward into the other the bar that's on the next viral.
It's so weird, that whole part. But I guess my point actually was super rich people like that that are kind of they're the people. They don't even fly first class. They don't fly commercials at all.
Oh wait, they get their own fun.
They have private plane. They're private plane rich. These are people who think they can get away with whatever because they already are up above the fray. They are not anywhere near Judy and Johnny Lunch.
How crazy is it that she was twenty one years old when they got married.
Yeah, and he'd already had a whole family.
He was what then? I think he was like sixteen years older than her. That means he was like in his middle late thirties. Yeah, twenty one year old girl that he marries. Yeah, I mean we've all met twenty one year olds. They're fucking idiots.
Yeah, even that seems uncommon these days, Like twenty one is a bit of a throwback.
So he marries this trophy Why they have a trophy daughter? Man? And that their place sung all right? The house was likely terrible. I liked that it was told that seventy six percent of the ransom note was bullshit, erroneous, Yeah, too much. All you needed was these four lines they're selling. They kept saying the phrase they're selling. They're selling it that there wasn't there didn't need to be blood from the blow to the head, even though they showed it in the worst way possible. That that was interesting. Also, so you get you see this ransom note letter, it says, don't call the fucking cops or will behead your daughter multiple times. Yeah, the first thing they do is call the cops. Yes, why is that even if because they wrote the letter, and yeah, it's not actually gonna happen. Even if the letter wasn't even if they didn't do it and the letter was found, they still made so many mistakes and and it was still a fake ransom note no matter That's what's so hard about it. No matter what, it was a fake ransom note. Yes, that's one hundred percent. So it's hard to be like, who wrote this ransom note? You can't be like, but it was a fake ransom note. So the parents didn't know the ransom note was fake no matter what. Yes, there's no small foreign faction, no kid and the kid was already dead in the basement, right, So it's not like and you clearly didn't bring this. If the ransom note had been brought in and then she was found dead, it would have been like, oh, they meant to kidnap perm it. It didn't happen, right.
Also, the point they made very early, and that is like, to me, the proof of almost everything is you don't kidnap a six year old girl out of a millionaire's house and ask for one hundred thousand dollars. That's the dumbest fucking part of it, where it's like you have a living child, it's millions. You ask for millions, and you know this person's a millionaire. They talk about him, They talk about him as if they know him so personally.
Well.
They say a couple things in it. They say that that get it out of your account, so they know that that's how much. But he has at least that in his account. Not get the fucking money no matter what you can do. Yeah. The other thing is get a big enough quote attash, say case, who gives a shit, what size bag? You know, get a brown paper bag. You don't need to tell this person that get this much money period.
Yes, well that's yeah, that's clearly someone just having.
Thinking way too hard about this and.
Also believing their own shit. Like that's that thing where instead of having this self consciousness to go is this believable or whatever, it was just like sit down and have a creative writing.
Session, yeah, and saying get some rest, you're gonna this is gonna be complicated.
It's like she okay, let's just say it was Patsy writing this thing. She sat down it, she started.
Out, but he might have been dictating.
He could have been dictating. Let's not scare her handwrite.
She was a journalist major too, so she knows how to write. Yes, could go on, Sorry.
No, no, no, But it is just that idea of like you get started, you're already got the adrenaline, r some insane shit, you're in a surreal place anyway. Then you just start kind of going for it where it's you're quoting speed.
Yeah, you're like, here's this she does, the girl does. Here's what people who have seen too many movies about it think that a ransom letter is written.
What about just can we skip to the part where they interviewed the gardener and he talked about Patsy Ramsey coming out to talk about the OJ.
Verdict.
That part I was like, I don't care what else happens in this thing. The idea that there's a first person person eyewitness talking about Patsy Ramsey's reaction to OJ, which is.
That you can get away with murder in America, Yes.
But there was also just it was that, but then it was also just the general kind of mashup of like this is like pop culture gone mad on my TV right now.
It's interesting how much the OJ the Simpsons had to do with this smurt like how much they were.
Affected by each other.
And you know, I was reading some of the movie quotes and how similar they were. And there were also people online who are fucking brilliant, interesting people who say, here's when this movie showed in Bolder, like near the date of her Mercher, like the night before one of the one of the movies was played on TV. Oh my god, you know, November twenty ninth, this movie was played on TV in Boulder. It's really fucking interesting.
That's the shit, like that really is. It's the wave of the future. It's people armchair detective web Smith who are going to solve the big stuff totally, because that's the kind of stuff that you know, like if cops and all those cops that talk like that one investigator that quit because he was like, this is disgusting.
Loved seeing him young and then seeing him interview. He was hot stuff, super fucking hot. He was hot.
And also just his like burning sense of justice delicious.
Oh my god. And he wants him to I want him to win.
Yeah, And it's that thing of like, well, he quits, so so then nothing goes forward. But then it's like, yeah, but or he stays and goes insane or takes the fall, or it's.
Or is it, or hates himself for the rest of his life because he didn't do the right. He didn't do anything right. Quitting sometimes is like the only way you can show how passionate you are about something. Right.
It's a state. It's a real political statement. And if he was told this has become a political situation, then he has to be political too. You just have to play on the on the playing field.
Well, that them saying that everyone indict everyone voted to indict the Ramses for having some hand in kombine dying, and the fucking police chief just being like, no, thanks giving a news conference that they're not doing it now.
One of the very first last podcasts on the Left episodes I listened to on your recommendation, was there, John Benet rams Is it.
Two part that? Yeah? Last podcast and list has a two part Jamine Ramsey episode that's very fucking incredible, so thoroughly researched. It's so awesome, and we're back here.
We're back here to really review something else. We're reviewing from the past.
I'm proud of myself for having the stands even back then of like, let's not use the word panties. Why are grown educated people casually scientifically throwing out the word panties?
I feel like that, And when someone else pointed it out and I just got to be there to observe talking about we don't.
Call it kitty porn, right, that's this is its CSA child sexual assault materials.
Like that idea of it is part of the problem. It is part of like the delineation that needs to be made of, like the casualness, the grossness, and also the kind of maybe insinuating that anybody is there voluntarily or happily.
Right, it's not porn. It's not the same thing as porn, no at all.
But really indicative of this was this It's just weird to me how much this show is, like, it doesn't feel like it was that long ago. It was a really long time ago.
I was almost like, and now we're back in twenty twenty four, but no, we're not. We're now in twenty twenty five. Even. Yeah, that's so fun. Almost ten fucking years. Yeah, let's get back into the episode, shawie, all.
Right, let's get back into the rest of the story. One of the to me most fascinating parts was them talking about how John Ramsey is a millionaire because he's got this computer programming company or some computer something company, but that they don't really know what it does. It has a government contract, I believe, they said, and he makes millions of dollars a year, but they can't really figure out what he does.
We got to ask mister robot, that's all right, he's coming back.
The robot gotta shut him down.
And then we gotta go to ram Emmanuel and be like, what the fuck are you doing? Later this happens and are you doing later? But I just thought that was it.
I love that theory because I love there there is some bigger thing at work. Then keeping the District Attorney of Boulder underneath John Ramsey's thumb, Why does he have that much power aside from just money, there's got Boulder mail.
Since I mean, this is so dumb, but since watching mister Robot, hacking emails seems like a very easy thing to do, hacking fucking internet searches. You have some shit on someone, and.
Oh, so you think he did that to them?
I just was, baby, maybe they have some shit on the fucking chief of police, you know, sure emails. I mean, let's go to the fucking obvious child pornography right anything? Yeah, and he knows about it before even the police would know. Sure, that's to you, that's fascinating. I liked how they jumped straight to Patsy is an mk ultra robot? Yeah?
I just that.
Well. I wrote, let's go back to my l article. I wrote in it that how beautiful would it be if it was mk ultra or if it was God damn it, Stephen. The moment I said mk Ultra, Stephen's phone started barking. And it's like the mk ultra.
The government's trying to shut us.
Yeah, we're talking about it. Stephen, you're fired, Steve Stephen, you're rehired at a higher rate. Elvis, you're in. Yeah. I would love it if it were that simple, that interesting and interesting and not awful. But the reality is, like parents kill their children more than strangers kill their children or killed people's children.
Yes, it's always from the family. That's the first place they look for a reason. It's usually an inside job, and it's also the darkest choice. So it's the biggest bummer that most people don't want to look at it at all, I know, because that's anybody.
It's horrible. Yeah, I think, I mean, go, it's hard to find them. Actually, I was looking for them today. But the initial press interviews with John Ramsey, which you can see in the cbstoc are cold and creepy.
Yeah, he's a real creeper. I don't think that that necessarily, Like, as people have said about many people in this series, like I think we're just learning now how people grieve, what they look like when they're under pressure, and all this stuff.
And you know, I agree with that all completely, But this is fucking goodbye. Let's move on.
Yes, it's it's very It's so telling once you relook at it and like under aside from thinking exactly who did it or exactly what the situation was, I just know that, like my father, like if you were talking about someone who just died, but you you even if you're a man and a strong man and you were in a war, you whatever, Yeah, your child, you would get choked up. You just that's your The words are coming out of your mouth and you're listening to them. If you have a total disconnect, then you're then you give a great press conference.
Can I say, let me, let's impart a personal part of this, because people fucking love that. But when I was like thirteen and on drugs and like a really bad kid, and one night I just didn't come home and my sister had dropped me off somewhere and I just went out with my fucking punk rock friends and my parents called the police and were freaking out. And my brother later said to me, like the next when I finally came home and I just been on drugs all night, was like a neither with my dad. He said, I heard dad and the other weeping, weeping, and my Dad's not like that, right, And I fucking that was one of the things that made me stop doing drugs. So the thought of my dad weeping at me, just not being home, right, So the fact that he's just I mean, I know we all react differently, yes, but the reaction his fucking demeanor is cold cold, It's incredibly doesil put his arm around his wife who's crying.
No, there's a real, like he has a real be of a bank manager feel to him, where he's letting you know your house is getting foreclothes.
Yeah, and I don't have I have shut myself off from other people's emotions for so long that I just don't care well.
And also like he's in business mode where this is an emergency all the like emergency cord got pulled, and now that's the mode he's in, and he's completely like compartmentalized.
All all of everything. The emergency garrot got pulled.
Oh dude, that thing is such a bummer.
I think he was in the Navy and he worked for a small foreign faction in the Philippines. Is that true? And their uh SBTC has something to do with the Navy? Is that true?
It's victory is signing things?
Oh I wrote a thing is signing things victory with an exclamation point.
Here's because that's so stupid. Here's okay, although I am changing my email signature, do you dare me? Am I doing it right?
Oh? Do it? Okay? So I read victory, I wade a bunch of shit of like, I read a bunch of mostly the comments on people's blog posts about what it was. We're fucking more interesting than the blog post. One of them was it was on web sleuths. Someone said, on your phone keypad, the number corresponds with three or four letters. Look for SBTC. The numbers are seven two eight two seven two eight two corresponds with PA TC pat C. Don't underestimate us, John, use that good Southern common sense of yours. It's up to you now, John. Victory for pats I know.
But what is that victory for Patsy?
Patsy? So maybe Patsy?
I mean, I know it's her, but I'm.
How I don't know it's So it's one of those Yeah, isn't that interesting? Yes, it is, has nothing to do with it.
Well. Also, that's a really good that's a really good way to make up a code.
Total. Let's do it right now. I mean took one. What's your name? Hard kill? Hard kill?
Hard kill?
All right? Here, let me write I wrote like a bunch of fucking thoughts. Why sign a ransom note? To begin with? Right? Nobody signs a ransom No one expects you to put your name on there? Now, did you know? There were also and we should do a quick like, let's do the side of it was an intruder because there's a lot of that.
Okay, let's do it.
There were thirty eight registered sex is living within two miles of the house in Bolder. Yes, that's a lot. That's a lot in Bold or small. John Benay had been to the pediatrician pediatrician over the last three years of her life twenty seven times. That's a lot.
That's too many.
It's too many. Wait, was Patsy some kind of weird? She might have had munch much as box for sure. Yeah, that's what that says to me.
Okay.
If Patsy had nothing to do with any of it, and John did, it makes sense that she's the one to like. Who If someone makes the panic nine one one call, the other person is telling them not to read the note. It says not to call. Yes, so one way or the other, you know what I mean, Like she's being manipulated, right, Yeah, I think Patsy was manipulated this whole time. Maybe she knew some things and so she couldn't tell the truth.
Yes, I think that's what it looked like in Nazna in her interview where she's got pale eyes and she's going.
I love my daughter with her eyes close. Yeah, yeah there. I think that she maybe knew some of it and agreed to it and didn't realize the extent of her husband's fucking awfulness.
But also that idea that she would be telling she she said, if we live in Bolder, which she said to phrase if we live in Bolder, which I wrote down, don't they live in Bolder?
I would, I would tell everyone in Bolder if we live in Bolder, And she says, I tell my friends. So it's this like weird thing of like, who are you telling?
Yes, and she's saying there's a killer out there, hold your baby's tight. But the idea that that's a given, yeah, Like you don't have to underline that if you're this mourning mother who.
As if she didn't because she was very protective of her children.
Yeah, oh you said in your l article, you said the thing about we have to stop using the word pants.
Oh can we not?
It's so true. But you know what I thought of is Henry Lee. Doctor Henry Lee has such a thick accent. Yeah, I bet you the word underwear was hard for him to say. This man is such a famous and prolific and legendary forensic pathology.
If you don't watch true crime shit, you wouldn't know that doctor Lee. Henry Lee is someone that we all fucking admire. He's everyone. The minute he's in on it, you're like, oh, this is a legit.
And also he has a building. They went to his building with his name on the front of it to talk about some of that DNA stuff, So like, there's no sweat off Henry Lay's back in any way.
Absolutely not. Yeah, and he's not gonna He's also not going to bullshit. He's not going to be paid to do a show with his opinion, no, because they need a certain opinion. He's not gonna lie. No.
I feel like all of those scientists really were there because this thing is fucked and we need to look at it and at least just organize the paperwork.
At the very least, I agree this show is great. I wish we could see the last unaired yes portion of I want to know what they cut out. I think we expect everyone over by not showing that.
But I wonder if it was stuff that the berg Ramsey's lawyers were like, go ahead and er it will own CBS in a year.
What I was thinking is that the four uh Bias document docuseries before it covered so much of it already that they didn't were like, you know what, you don't need.
To add this maybe except for well, I have to see the other ones to know, But I don't know. I mean, because their whole thing was like, we're going to discover all this stuff on it. Yeah. Werner Spitz, oh god, I love him, has a straight up Peaky Blinders haircut. If you watch Peaky Blinders, that's the same hair. This second I saw him, I was like, oh my god.
Love him. Picture him and Henry Lee put in a house together and they just there's when people stop being polite and start being real, like that is my dream. And then like there's just like they just get like every morning they wake up and it's instead of Tyra Male, it's like a fucking corpse and they have to figure out what happened to him. Tyra Male, it's a corpse. Oh my god, how great would that be?
I mean, we should just start our own network, I feel like because also Warner spits guesting on Peaky Blinders.
Oh gorgeous.
He could be the German Irish guy that comes in and just point some stuff out.
Listen, Emmy's next year, We're there, Sure, winning all of them. We'll go down to the shrine and stand around near that burger. Sure I'll get a fucking rent the runway dress.
Yeah, the whole thing actually made me. It made me think of like all of those other cases where people the more people talk about it, the more people hear bullshit, the more like, you know, like the we talked about the John Mark Karth where he had confessed to being her killer while he was in Malaysia somewhere to get out, to get out of being in jail because he's child's molester who had gotten arrested for I think child sex tourism and knew that if he went to jail there he would just die in a pit somewhere, and so he confessed to killing John Benay and then was extra and when he was extradited and everyone was talking about it, my sister gets a phone call from our childhood friend.
I didn't tell you this, you did, but I don't remember, and she goes, oh.
My god, see that guy on the news right now. That's the guy from my church group I've been complaining about. And apparently John Carr lived in Pedaluma and was in my sister's friend's church group and was the guy that everyone's like, I want to cancel church group next week. I feel so weird, like he was creeping people out and super weird, super like super just bad vibe suspicious. And then I mean, how like satisfying would that be? And then you see him like basically confessing to the murder of Jomini Rams.
So minute I see him, like you know when there's like the clips or the trailers to a jambinet fucking uh, you know, docuseries, and I see him, I'm like, oh, this isn't legit. No, I don't want to hear about him. No, no, no, he has nothing to do with it. Aside from sensationalism. He should just get a big red herring costume, because that's all he is should be all right, I'm going to read a couple of things. Felicia said she did some digging last night and feel super confident about the Burke theory. She'd learned some things she hadn't before. Okay, this is interesting. There was a fourteen year old girl that was sexually molested by an intruder about nine months after Jean Benet was murdered, very close to the Ramsay home. Quote Amy was sexually assaulted in her bed by an intruder that they believe was lying in wait for four to six hours before the attack while they were all asleep. He was never caught, and the Boulder Police disregarded the mother's suggestion that he could have been the killer of Jean MAInet. Amy and John Mane Ran attended the same dance studio a lot of Okay, So the fact that they had a walkthrough of their Christmas decorated house, the Ramses, what was it a couple of days before the murder?
What was it like a public walkthrough?
Yeah? Oh, I like you know, like when you do like a haunted house. Yeah, Halloween. So there, And the theory is that while the Ramses were at a Christmas party that night someone fucking came in broken, knew someone who had a key got in and hid and waited.
Yeah, totally possible.
And then they're like, depending on what side do you want to argue either the window in the basement had no leaves where someone scooted in, or had an undisturbed spider web where that would have been disturbed if someone had scooted in. Like, everyone who has a fucking definitive answer about this needs to stop it, because there's not one no.
And that's that's the crazy the cobweb one watching them on that one show going in and out where I was just like, yeah, but then there's the one time where you don't touch it at all and because you're really skinny because you're on match or this or that, like you're careful one billion yes exactly. The thing that I was thought was very suspicious was they the first of all, they are these millionaires, they have two planes, but they have a broken window pane in their basement and they don't fix it. Like I'm the most irresponsible person in the world, and when I broke my kitchen window, I fixed it within three days because it's your house and it's an open window like it's unsafe, it's glass. And then there was some somewhere in that where they John Ramsay said that they left it like that because he locked himself out a lot.
Right, which is insane. He actually had admitted to that being his fault. I thought was very weird, super weird, because to me, it's like, oh, are you trying to justify if there's some latent print somewhere, because it does get a high to key.
There's one million things, especially as a millionaire, they crop do. Man, Yeah, buy a second fucking house, Like, there's all these things you could do instead of breaking a window and leaving it that way.
I thought it was really like there's some things that to me were like, well, if you want to argue this thing this way, you say this. If you want to argue with you, Like there's things like like the taser marks. If you want it to be an intruder, it's taser marks. If you don't want it to be an intruder, it's train track, it's Burk's toy train track marks. Yes, every piece of evidence can be argued either way you fucking wanted to be argued.
I did think it was interesting when they argued the taser that tasers don't put you to sleep, They actually like get your adrenaline going and like zap you and make you screen much a wig. Yeah, that's an interesting thing, I think. And I think that that could point to shoddy, this super shoddy police work of that these as weird assumptions where it's like they were they were actually measuring it and being like, yeah, this doesn't even fit a taser shape. It doesn't.
I think the thing for me, all right, let's let's do our big conclusion. Great, I think, because I'm so tired. I'm so tired too. Let's do the thing between between I think the ransom letter and the nine one one call and what happened between when the cops came and her body was found put down and then oh, I think those all.
Over the houses by neighbors and friends.
And picked up DNA all over the carpet, and I think those things are the most telling more than anything else in the Pineapple. But also and I think those things all point to it inside job, and it makes more sense to me that one of the three people aside from John and A in that house that night, it had something to do with it. More than a stranger or someone else outside of it. Yeah, it just makes more sense.
It does. I Mean the thing that's maddening I guess is that could be a little bit of everything. Yeah, it could be an intruder who opened that window and saw the suitcase in the room and put it there because he was like, I'm going to go get that little girl and take her out the way. There's all these things that it could be a little piece of each. But yes, I agree and believe that the ransom note is a lie and it's a fabrication, and the nine woman calls bullshit. I don't bol I don't buy her level it's acting and it's not good acting. And then the fact that that mag light flashlight fits the whole in Jompone's head perfectly, Yeah, is devastating, like proof that, or at least devastating first too much, but it's that thing of like then you I just it suddenly made sense of like she did yet another irritating thing to him, and he grabbed something nearby threw it out her, or like ran behind her and cracked her without knowing.
Yeah, you don't have to be like, you know, crazy, the good Son, evil Child to make a terrible mistake. To me, Patsy and Burke are Patsy's and John's the puppy. Yeah, ego, well he's going to take care of business like this, the worst case scenario thing happened.
Yeah, and yeah, he's going to fix it.
And did you know that? So out of all the they did, I really like the when they take apart the ransom note and look letter by letter of his with matches, So, oh god, where'd it go? So all these people were get my notes from under my cat? Oh god, where to go? Well, a hundred people their their writing, their handwriting was compared to the ransom note. Everyone was cleared. And everyone keeps saying like, well Patsy Ramsey was inconclusive. Out of the one hundred people, hers was the only one that wasn't cleared. Yeah, that was quote inconclusive.
Yeah.
She also wrote out the words one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars instead of the numbers. Yeah. Yes, nobody fucking does.
No one does.
When asked to rewrite the ransom note, she did that. But I also I just I have so much sympathy for her.
Well, yeah, the idea that she would she would know that her child was murdered and then have to be a part of the cover up, have to be the voice.
Of the the grieving mother, and so then balance those feelings of you actually really did lose your child, but now in the name just say if it's the birk in the name of your other child, you have to continue on and do this thing.
That's a sickening.
Proposition, especially when you're someone who appearances mean so much you and I don't give a fuck. I'm sitting fucking spread eagle right now with shorts and I don't give a shit.
My roots need to be dyed so bad that strangers laugh at me on the street. And yeah, to be wrapped up in that world, that trapping of it is its own pageantry. It's an adult version of that of look at my home. Now, there are balls of shit in my daughter's bed, look at my son, put their children, please look at my Christmas tree.
And you're still winning. You're still gonna win the crown if you're the fucking best at it.
That's right.
It's just different insanity.
Also, there was that one quote where a little girl, and it's the woman that was interviewed her the wine friend that said I was. I was, you know, turned out cast out from the friendship, where I was like, yeah, because you talk to fucking reporters and you clearly just like ran blabbing the second you could. But she said that her daughter had gone up to John Binney's room with her one time and was looking at all the trophies and said, what are these and she said, I just won those, but they're really my mom's. Yeah, thinking, first of all, I don't buy that that actually happened. That's not like something I don't like an anecdote someone would write on Twitter about their brilliant child, because it's such an old soul kind of thing, knowing that's like her combenting on her the reality of her own life in a way, as if she's not a part of it. To say, yes, my mother's very wrapped up in my career.
Talk about this on CBS when I'm dead.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense for a six year old. Maybe if she was eight, or I mean, who knows.
Everyone wants to make their kids seem like an old soul, but really they're just fucking they screamed, they're the fucking lives. They're new soul to everybody. Else in the restaurant when you're child screaming, so shut it. Oh No, was that enough Jean Benet talk for everybody?
I think it was a lot. I think I'm.
Done talking about this anymore.
Yeah, unless there's new information, Yeah, I would be interested in new information. But I feel like we've just hit a peek, a true zenith of Jean Bennet reporting. And also just that it's this thing of everybody going true crime is so hot right now, true crime or whatever, where it's just like, yeah, but we don't need to keep talking now, the same thing over and over.
The amount of research I've done on this person that I this case that I'm really very interested in, and I feel a lot of fucking sadness and pain for that the victim. I feel like if I keep fucking searching it and getting into and talking about it, I'm just I'm not I'm desecrating her fucking memory. And I just I can't keep looking at fucking autopsy photos.
No. So also, it's not good for your brain. No, like it's not. It's you're not related, you don't work on it, you don't put yourself through it. I saw a picture on Twitter moments this morning because there was nothing I was. I was up at like six and there was nothing going on Twitter, so I went I made the grave mistake of touching the moment's button and seeing what the story was there, and it said something about John Binney. But the picture was one where I was like, is this Angelina Joe Lee? Like her mouth is open and her head is tipped back, and she's got all kinds of fucking makeup on and her hairs brushed away from her head so you can see like her tall forehead and she truly looks like she's twenty and it is such a sexual picture. And that's the picture Twitter Moments chose to use as the Janpinnet headline picture. Not the cute one Nope, where she's got the little bangs and the little hat and she just looks like she's on vacation. It was like she might as well have been like grabbing her own neck. It was such a sexual, like perfume commercial. Let's stop doing this, It's stop it. It's gross to her. It's not gonna stop though, because it's it's there's it's so fucking salacious and it's so mysterious.
She is a sweet she We're going to file her away as a sweet baby angle and she will be in and your you're in mine and my favorite murderer's hearts, and we feel awful and wish it would be solved, but it's not. It's just not. There's not. Even if it gets solid, people are gonna say it's a fucking conspiracy, right yeah, keep you keep your babies close, and keep your foreign factions even closer. And the punk rock band and stay sexy and don't get murdered.
Elvis want a cookie, Cooky, cooky, good boy, we are back and they're actually this is what's very interesting.
There are some case updates.
So twenty eight years later, of course, the murder of Jean Benet Ramsey remains unsolved. There countless documentaries and forums where people talk about who they think did it, theories everywhere. Earlier this year, John Ramsey met with the New Boulder Police chief and said it was the first time he felt that the case was in good hands and that it gave him a lot of hope.
You know, it's so funny because recently I talked about the new documentary Cold Case Who Killed John man A Ramsey? And it's another one of those like John Ramsey is interviewed throughout it, and I was like, I'm convinced he didn't do it, blah blah blah, and I just I still am like, I don't fucking know like all of this. First of all, we should have said allegedly from the top. Did we even say that word in this episode? I doubt it. No, there's no way we said allegedly. We had no idea that we should be doing things like that. No, this is all allegedly. I mean, my mind changes all the time. And I will also say that an update on this is that Burke Ramsey sued CBS over this documentary. Yeah, and he sued for two hundred and fifty million in compensatory damages and five one hundred million impunitive damages and it was settled outside of court. So it was this documentary was inflammatory.
Oh my god, it absolutely was pointing that. I mean, yeah, it was almost like they're saying, we know that there's a demand for the solution, so we're going to try to get you as close to that as possible, which is just kind of like anything can be produced if you're on that side of things, and just basically kind of trying to steer people a certain direction. It still doesn't mean you saw the case just because you've compiled kind of like your own narrative, you're own television.
Mary, like a possibility of something happening. I mean to me at this point, I was looking over the case again before I record it. I really don't think in my heart that Burke, this ten year old boy, had anything to do with what happened. I do think that the ransom note is going to be the answer somehow, because it's just so fucking weird and you can't get past it.
Yes, there's so many weird specifics in that ransom thame. No, I agree with you, but all of this is just like I feel like people theorizing, people online, everybody talking about it. Everyone is influenced.
By these documents totally. So it's like we all believe.
In twenty sixteen that we, you know, we were really close to it, and then it's like, of course, ten years later, everyone's like, mount clearly, it's not that.
And after this episode aired, a lovely writer named Nathan Raven at Vulture wrote a very nice article about us in this episode, So thank you so much to him. That was very nice.
Yeah, I mean, any final thoughts, I feel like this is just one of those you know, John Bennet. It's like we've been seeing her face in the grocery store tabloid kind of like rack since the moment this happened. It is from a different time. It is an insane tragedy, yet it is still the kind of like white woman syndrome, white child syndrome. This is the most important kind of murder rich people. It's the thing of like we want rich people to pay some sort of a price. We want to know what's going on inside other people's houses, especially big mansions.
Yeah, definitely. I do still think John Mark Carr should be looked closer at, especially after watching that cold case who killed John in a Ramsey because they interview the private detective who was baiting him and he did know more than he should have about the family.
That was the guy that showed up right and was suddenly kind of saying, I need to talk about maybe I'm involved in this.
Your sister was saying in this in this episode, your sister was talking about having known him somehow too.
Oh.
It was it was like frond of a friend type of things where somebody discovered that he had been in their church group.
So I don't know. I still am not totally convinced he doesn't have something to do with it or knows someone who does. But we'll update it again in ten years when they finally have the answer. Can you imagine double rewind.
Double rewind, double rewind. We're again changing our stance on this.
All right, So, if we were going to name this episode today, small form Faction, I just think is such a fucking tight name. It's perfect.
A small foreign faction gets it all said, and it keeps you wanting more simultaneously.
But this one, if we were to name it today, it's something I still think about and still comes up in my head every time I hear it. We could call this episode scream Sneezer for sure.
Scream Sneezer was one of those things when you and I started discussing it, people online really liked this conversation because it was like it gave people a chance to either accuse their like loved one of being one, or tell their own personal story or admit they were, or defend themselves. There's a lot of scream sneezers who are like I can't help it.
And you know, yes, and then I'd be a little more aware of it. I realized I am since then that I am a screamy honor and that is a whole That's a whole nother fucking therapy session for me. Have you heard you scream?
You on, uh not scream, but like I know that that is I liked. I know you're just trying to catch your breath. But there have been Yeah, there have been some.
Loud ones for yawns. There's supposed to be on the quieter side. It's ridiculous. Okay, what else we got?
Oh angry complaining. Oh, basically that what I was talking about, that there's a new format for the show, and angry complaining would be the new top.
Of show that should be its own podcasts completely. I mean I think that is podcast in general. That's an older sister corner of course, because that's what we talk about all the time. And yeah, we need we need to know what Laura and Leah think about the podcast, right.
Yeah, the foundation of this podcast is built on bossy older sisters and sister relationships in general.
Like it's the sisters that got us where we are today, for sure. Yeah, if we weren't traumatized so incredibly by our older sisters, we wouldn't be where we are today.
So you've got to know that that pain really does get planted deep into the soil of life experience and up grows a beautiful podcast for you too.
All Right, well, thanks you guys for listening to this episode of rewind. We really appreciate you guys like inviting another episode into your week and your life.
My god, especially people who listen to it the first time more than once. I feel like there's people that are really out there doing triple and quadruple duty, and to you we say thank you, especially, thank you so much.
And we also say stay sexy and don't get murdered. Get it, Bay Elvis, do you want a cookie
