Hello and welcome my favorite murder.

Hello and welcome my favorite murder.

That's George Heart Start.

That's George Heart Start.

That's Karen Kilgera. This is Thanksgiving. It's this comes out on Thanksgiving twenty twenty four.

That's Karen Kilgera. This is Thanksgiving. It's this comes out on Thanksgiving twenty twenty four.

Twenty twenty four, that's right, that's the year with that we're dealing with. Yeah, happy Thanksgiving. Hey, what are you grateful for this?

Twenty twenty four, that's right, that's the year with that we're dealing with. Yeah, happy Thanksgiving. Hey, what are you grateful for this?

I'm grateful for all the decorations that Asia put up in the studio. If you're watching this on video, you can see that it's super autumnal.

I'm grateful for all the decorations that Asia put up in the studio. If you're watching this on video, you can see that it's super autumnal.

It's gorgeous. It's themed out. It totally is. There's baby gords, but that also kind of feel like I was. I was looking at this, I'm like, what if you could turn them like this and there's like secret It's one of those you could put your pot in it type of it to be like a kitchen timer. Oh remember those old Tupperware commercials where it would be like something like this, but then there'd just be a little lock on the front or advertisements. And when I was little enough that I used to think that's what Tupperware was. It like a lock. It was like tomato with the lock on the front of it, or I'm like, I want a tomato with the lock on it. How about these turkey glasses?

It's gorgeous. It's themed out. It totally is. There's baby gords, but that also kind of feel like I was. I was looking at this, I'm like, what if you could turn them like this and there's like secret It's one of those you could put your pot in it type of it to be like a kitchen timer. Oh remember those old Tupperware commercials where it would be like something like this, but then there'd just be a little lock on the front or advertisements. And when I was little enough that I used to think that's what Tupperware was. It like a lock. It was like tomato with the lock on the front of it, or I'm like, I want a tomato with the lock on it. How about these turkey glasses?

Oh yeah, I mean never have you looked better?

Oh yeah, I mean never have you looked better?

Why does New Year's get all the fun when Thanksgivings? Ready for it, guys, I can't. I'm gonna go ahead and put these right. Oh yeah? Yeah? Is it what was meant to be on my head? Yeah?

Why does New Year's get all the fun when Thanksgivings? Ready for it, guys, I can't. I'm gonna go ahead and put these right. Oh yeah? Yeah? Is it what was meant to be on my head? Yeah?

It's like, oh, finally Karen's found her her calling. Did you see there's like a girl who turned her long beautiful hair. She must be a hair influencer, turned it into like a cornucopia, really really cool, all these braids and then all these like accessories and stuff. Was there stuff coming out of it?

It's like, oh, finally Karen's found her her calling. Did you see there's like a girl who turned her long beautiful hair. She must be a hair influencer, turned it into like a cornucopia, really really cool, all these braids and then all these like accessories and stuff. Was there stuff coming out of it?

Yeah, like put a pumpkin it and a put of this in. Yes, that's cool. You know that reminds me of just that much hair. Do you ever see that video where Bob the Drag Queen is doing a live show and he's got this gigantic wig on. So there's the thing where they like take up the wig and that it reveals like another wig and that's kind of like a thing. Oh, I love it. That's uh. Sometimes in the drag community they do so there's a I can't remember what the song was, but basically like builds builds bills and it goes to do the wig reveal and there's literally like a five year old little girl sitting on his head. It is so funny. And the crowd, though, it is just like the most epic.

Yeah, like put a pumpkin it and a put of this in. Yes, that's cool. You know that reminds me of just that much hair. Do you ever see that video where Bob the Drag Queen is doing a live show and he's got this gigantic wig on. So there's the thing where they like take up the wig and that it reveals like another wig and that's kind of like a thing. Oh, I love it. That's uh. Sometimes in the drag community they do so there's a I can't remember what the song was, but basically like builds builds bills and it goes to do the wig reveal and there's literally like a five year old little girl sitting on his head. It is so funny. And the crowd, though, it is just like the most epic.

Reveal of all times, like a crowd that's primed and ready for something awesome and epic.

Reveal of all times, like a crowd that's primed and ready for something awesome and epic.

And then it fucking out does itself and it's just the cutest little girl. That's like, what so hilarious it was an AI? I mean, I can't even picture it. I feel it might have been pretty AI. Sure should we say what we're thankful for? Yeah?

And then it fucking out does itself and it's just the cutest little girl. That's like, what so hilarious it was an AI? I mean, I can't even picture it. I feel it might have been pretty AI. Sure should we say what we're thankful for? Yeah?

This year, because there's a theme of what Karen and I are thankful for? And guess what it's you, listener? Oh, I thought it was us. Oh, it's us. We're thankful for ourselves.

This year, because there's a theme of what Karen and I are thankful for? And guess what it's you, listener? Oh, I thought it was us. Oh, it's us. We're thankful for ourselves.

The theme is us once again?

The theme is us once again?

No, like, okay, So the theme is that we're thankful for the Murderino community.

No, like, okay, So the theme is that we're thankful for the Murderino community.

Cary, God, you guys are fucking awesome.

Cary, God, you guys are fucking awesome.

We have a couple cool things going on that we wanted to tell you about regarding you yourself, the Murderino community.

We have a couple cool things going on that we wanted to tell you about regarding you yourself, the Murderino community.

What the Murderinos have done in the world. That's right. So a listener named Mandy sent us an article that I.

What the Murderinos have done in the world. That's right. So a listener named Mandy sent us an article that I.

Hadn't seen at all just came out, I think, just came out in People magazine by Angela Andeloro. It's called micro PREMI mom didn't know if she'd be writing an obituary or birth announcement when baby arrived at twenty five weeks. And this actually kind of hits me because my dear friend Carrie selen Better just had a premie at thirty four weeks and I met that baby and it was still in a nicu. It was so tiny, and the thought of a twenty five week baby I just cannot even imagine must have been so scary and so scary and unexpected. And yeah, like Carrie's baby was three pounds nine ounces, I mean, little tiny baby.

Hadn't seen at all just came out, I think, just came out in People magazine by Angela Andeloro. It's called micro PREMI mom didn't know if she'd be writing an obituary or birth announcement when baby arrived at twenty five weeks. And this actually kind of hits me because my dear friend Carrie selen Better just had a premie at thirty four weeks and I met that baby and it was still in a nicu. It was so tiny, and the thought of a twenty five week baby I just cannot even imagine must have been so scary and so scary and unexpected. And yeah, like Carrie's baby was three pounds nine ounces, I mean, little tiny baby.

She's doing great, oh good. So it was Carrie.

She's doing great, oh good. So it was Carrie.

So basically the mother, Caitlyn, gave birth to her daughter prematurely, unexpectedly twenty five weeks due to complications.

So basically the mother, Caitlyn, gave birth to her daughter prematurely, unexpectedly twenty five weeks due to complications.

The baby named Nora, was named Nora. Hey baby Nora Nora.

The baby named Nora, was named Nora. Hey baby Nora Nora.

It was in the nick You for one hundred and eighteen days. And in the article, Caitlyn says she sought help, didn't know, you know, who to talk to about this, So she said she got support by posting to a subgroup for fans of the True Crime podcast My Favorite Murder on Facebook, and she says, quote, I started posting there every week and it kind of became a thing where I found help that way.

It was in the nick You for one hundred and eighteen days. And in the article, Caitlyn says she sought help, didn't know, you know, who to talk to about this, So she said she got support by posting to a subgroup for fans of the True Crime podcast My Favorite Murder on Facebook, and she says, quote, I started posting there every week and it kind of became a thing where I found help that way.

Yeah. How fucking beautiful is that? I mean truly? Yeah, because when you.

Yeah. How fucking beautiful is that? I mean truly? Yeah, because when you.

Have this, like many listeners has the experience that you've had somewhere in this weird little thing that we've created.

Have this, like many listeners has the experience that you've had somewhere in this weird little thing that we've created.

And I think it's the thing too, of women being given the opportunity to support and help each other around a thing that of course it's like why first of all, why do you like that? Why are you interested in that true crime? Blah blah blahah. Then it's like, but it's really not about that, right, And here's actually what it is about, where it's like there's a sisterhood. Yeah, that's actually real in this way.

And I think it's the thing too, of women being given the opportunity to support and help each other around a thing that of course it's like why first of all, why do you like that? Why are you interested in that true crime? Blah blah blahah. Then it's like, but it's really not about that, right, And here's actually what it is about, where it's like there's a sisterhood. Yeah, that's actually real in this way.

Yeah, that's a good point when they're always like why do women like true crime like you guys do so much, and it's like, that's not what it's about. It's about so much bigger than that, and this is like a lovely example of that.

Yeah, that's a good point when they're always like why do women like true crime like you guys do so much, and it's like, that's not what it's about. It's about so much bigger than that, and this is like a lovely example of that.

It's beautiful.

It's beautiful.

So now, so Nora is now eighteen months old, happy and healthy and in a beautiful family and we're so so happy for you.

So now, so Nora is now eighteen months old, happy and healthy and in a beautiful family and we're so so happy for you.

Caitlin.

Caitlin.

Thank you to Mandy for sending that to us. Should I read her email? Who's Mandy's Okay, let me read Mandy's email?

Thank you to Mandy for sending that to us. Should I read her email? Who's Mandy's Okay, let me read Mandy's email?

So I who I thought you meant? Like her email addresser? I was like, sure, Yeah, is it Mandy at gmail or just a many more as youmail?

So I who I thought you meant? Like her email addresser? I was like, sure, Yeah, is it Mandy at gmail or just a many more as youmail?

Mandy says hello, hopefully this reaches you. I wanted to share an article written about a fan, her micro PREMI daughter and the community that we have all because of your podcast. The community was built over our love of MFM and spread into worldwide friendships. I'm in a Facebook subgroup and witness Caitlin and Nora's journey from birth until now. Baby Nora has so many honorary aunties and uncles because of the community. So I just wanted to share this and say thank you, thank you for giving us something that we love and the community that has been built around it because of you.

Mandy says hello, hopefully this reaches you. I wanted to share an article written about a fan, her micro PREMI daughter and the community that we have all because of your podcast. The community was built over our love of MFM and spread into worldwide friendships. I'm in a Facebook subgroup and witness Caitlin and Nora's journey from birth until now. Baby Nora has so many honorary aunties and uncles because of the community. So I just wanted to share this and say thank you, thank you for giving us something that we love and the community that has been built around it because of you.

I mean, that's just such a beautiful, thank you, beautiful thing. Yeah that's nice, It's so lovely and yeah, I don't know, I mean that's the piece of it that, like you and I have just been watching and hearing about what we're like. It kind of doesn't have anything to do with this in a lot of ways, it's like it's a true honor to have done something that is It's essentially, hey, this is what we're interested in, and this thing grew up around it of people being this kind of beautiful to.

I mean, that's just such a beautiful, thank you, beautiful thing. Yeah that's nice, It's so lovely and yeah, I don't know, I mean that's the piece of it that, like you and I have just been watching and hearing about what we're like. It kind of doesn't have anything to do with this in a lot of ways, it's like it's a true honor to have done something that is It's essentially, hey, this is what we're interested in, and this thing grew up around it of people being this kind of beautiful to.

Each other, inspired by a true story. Yeah, hey, let's make it about ourselves and make a donation and the name oh Marderinos nice to Saint Jude Children's Research Hospital. Ten thousand dollars we're given them. It's mission is to advance cures and means of prevention for pediatric catastrophic diseases through research and treatment. You can go to Saint Jude dot org. Stjude dot org to donate yourself if you'd like to.

Each other, inspired by a true story. Yeah, hey, let's make it about ourselves and make a donation and the name oh Marderinos nice to Saint Jude Children's Research Hospital. Ten thousand dollars we're given them. It's mission is to advance cures and means of prevention for pediatric catastrophic diseases through research and treatment. You can go to Saint Jude dot org. Stjude dot org to donate yourself if you'd like to.

And uh, yeah, yay, beautiful, thankful for y'all. Yeah, thanks you guys for I mean, that's just kind of staggering. It's like, it's really lovely. Well, I also have a really beautiful thing to share, okay about a murderinga Okay, and TikTok.

And uh, yeah, yay, beautiful, thankful for y'all. Yeah, thanks you guys for I mean, that's just kind of staggering. It's like, it's really lovely. Well, I also have a really beautiful thing to share, okay about a murderinga Okay, and TikTok.

I know you've been building this up and I'm really fucking excited to see it.

I know you've been building this up and I'm really fucking excited to see it.

Well, I just here's the thing, as I've already said this already, which is I'm on TikTok, but I'm also middle aged, so a lot of time I don't know what's going on, and I don't really want to be in there. I just want to look at stuff and not like normal social media interaction. But of course there's people that are interacting with me, and I talk about it all the time, so people are like, hey, did you see this? Hey, you would like this, and they also were saying it to you too, but kind of threw me. So I don't really I don't even know that that inbox is there. Every once while I'm like, what's this over here? And then it'll be like twenty things. I'm like, oh god, so a while ago I did that. And if you don't know, I've been doing a thing. I started reviewing sinkholes because it's a a true passion of mine and it's we called it sinkhole Saturdays, and it's just like a little fun, dumb thing. So then I open the inbox one day and there is this TikTok. I think if you look like that, Okay, here we go.

Well, I just here's the thing, as I've already said this already, which is I'm on TikTok, but I'm also middle aged, so a lot of time I don't know what's going on, and I don't really want to be in there. I just want to look at stuff and not like normal social media interaction. But of course there's people that are interacting with me, and I talk about it all the time, so people are like, hey, did you see this? Hey, you would like this, and they also were saying it to you too, but kind of threw me. So I don't really I don't even know that that inbox is there. Every once while I'm like, what's this over here? And then it'll be like twenty things. I'm like, oh god, so a while ago I did that. And if you don't know, I've been doing a thing. I started reviewing sinkholes because it's a a true passion of mine and it's we called it sinkhole Saturdays, and it's just like a little fun, dumb thing. So then I open the inbox one day and there is this TikTok. I think if you look like that, Okay, here we go.

Karen, longtime listener, first time caller. I live next door to a very old house. Our house is very old too. Oh my god, flippers came in and there's now a big This property sold for six hundred and three thousand dollars. And listen, I don't have any kind of reference to how deep this is, but I have a banana for scale, mana for scale.

Karen, longtime listener, first time caller. I live next door to a very old house. Our house is very old too. Oh my god, flippers came in and there's now a big This property sold for six hundred and three thousand dollars. And listen, I don't have any kind of reference to how deep this is, but I have a banana for scale, mana for scale.

Banana for scale. That's huge.

Banana for scale. That's huge.

I'm on the very edge of the precipice to bring you this breaking these Karen, please rate my sinkhole.

I'm on the very edge of the precipice to bring you this breaking these Karen, please rate my sinkhole.

That looks like a well, like an old well. Right, it's like you got this house and then suddenly it's like, oh, but then now there's a crevasse on the some of some million dollars.

That looks like a well, like an old well. Right, it's like you got this house and then suddenly it's like, oh, but then now there's a crevasse on the some of some million dollars.

And honestly it did look bigger once the banana was in it, right.

And honestly it did look bigger once the banana was in it, right.

Banana for scale, Banana for scale, banana for scale. Much needed. So I just want to say, I don't know that person's name, but their TikTok handle is Jesse Boofoot. Okay, assuming it's a person named boofoot, and the bio says they're an amateur human. And I just have a couple of questions to Jesse Boofoot, which is like, how did you discover something that close to your neighbor's house, Like you were clearly snooping in between the other person moving out and somebody else moving in a little sneaky in my opinion, Like were you literally trespassing? Please give the full crime details of what you were doing. And then also just how did you get the idea of using a banana for scale? Is that a reference to show bananas? Yeah?

Banana for scale, Banana for scale, banana for scale. Much needed. So I just want to say, I don't know that person's name, but their TikTok handle is Jesse Boofoot. Okay, assuming it's a person named boofoot, and the bio says they're an amateur human. And I just have a couple of questions to Jesse Boofoot, which is like, how did you discover something that close to your neighbor's house, Like you were clearly snooping in between the other person moving out and somebody else moving in a little sneaky in my opinion, Like were you literally trespassing? Please give the full crime details of what you were doing. And then also just how did you get the idea of using a banana for scale? Is that a reference to show bananas? Yeah?

And I also love that she had a string around it. She wasn't going to leave it behind. She's not a litterer. No, she wouldn't litter the banana. Twenty of there in twenty twenty four.

And I also love that she had a string around it. She wasn't going to leave it behind. She's not a litterer. No, she wouldn't litter the banana. Twenty of there in twenty twenty four.

Who can throw a banana down into a hole and never have it returned?

Who can throw a banana down into a hole and never have it returned?

Somens aren't cheap good to pull it back out. It's totally thoughtful. Actually, it's so lovely all the way around, the energy with which that was delivered. Where it's like, please writ I gotta tell Careen about my sinkle.

Somens aren't cheap good to pull it back out. It's totally thoughtful. Actually, it's so lovely all the way around, the energy with which that was delivered. Where it's like, please writ I gotta tell Careen about my sinkle.

I love it, love it so much so I guess if you have a sinkhole in your life, of course, please send it in because I want to know about it. Do not create a sinkhole just to like have something to create. You know what I mean like, yeah, don't be like that lady that was digging the hole inner basement for no reason. And then like truly, right, you just kept digging no illegal sinkholes, so you have to observe them in nature. But Jesse Boush, but I can't thank you enough. It's truly one of my favorite things that I have seen on TikTok. But because I just don't really interact with it, it seemed like I think I faved it or like said yay, but it meant much more and I talked about it much more. And I want that person to know how much it meant because I want people to send us tiktoks like that.

I love it, love it so much so I guess if you have a sinkhole in your life, of course, please send it in because I want to know about it. Do not create a sinkhole just to like have something to create. You know what I mean like, yeah, don't be like that lady that was digging the hole inner basement for no reason. And then like truly, right, you just kept digging no illegal sinkholes, so you have to observe them in nature. But Jesse Boush, but I can't thank you enough. It's truly one of my favorite things that I have seen on TikTok. But because I just don't really interact with it, it seemed like I think I faved it or like said yay, but it meant much more and I talked about it much more. And I want that person to know how much it meant because I want people to send us tiktoks like that.

Totally send us tiktoks like that. Okay, Well, speaking at the Bananas podcasts and other podcasts that are on our podcast network and.

Totally send us tiktoks like that. Okay, Well, speaking at the Bananas podcasts and other podcasts that are on our podcast network and.

Other fruits and vegetables that we enjoy.

Other fruits and vegetables that we enjoy.

Let's get to the exactly right media highlights this week on Ghosted by ros hernandez Roz is joined by comedian and impressionist James Adomian.

Let's get to the exactly right media highlights this week on Ghosted by ros hernandez Roz is joined by comedian and impressionist James Adomian.

To talk about spoofy to talk about spooky things in other people's voices. And then on That's Messed Up and SPU podcast Kara and Lisa chat about the Ballad of Dwight and Arena from SPU twenty second season, and comedian Ricky Lindhan joins on to talk about her role in the episode Very Cool Yeah. Also over at the MFM store, we now have signed copies of our books Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered. If you want to give that book to the super fan in your life for the holidays or yourself. If you're that person, you can head over to www dot exactly right store dot com to get your copy today.

To talk about spoofy to talk about spooky things in other people's voices. And then on That's Messed Up and SPU podcast Kara and Lisa chat about the Ballad of Dwight and Arena from SPU twenty second season, and comedian Ricky Lindhan joins on to talk about her role in the episode Very Cool Yeah. Also over at the MFM store, we now have signed copies of our books Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered. If you want to give that book to the super fan in your life for the holidays or yourself. If you're that person, you can head over to www dot exactly right store dot com to get your copy today.

And for all you demon heads, Son of Satan, the latest episode of MFM, animated by Nick Terry is now available on YouTube dot com Slash exactly right Media. Please follow that as well if you feel like it. Also a little bit of a sad announcement. After one hundred and eighty thrilling double features, we are saying goodbye to our beloved movie podcast I Saw What You Did is closing its cinema doors. We want to thank Danielle Henderson and Millie.

And for all you demon heads, Son of Satan, the latest episode of MFM, animated by Nick Terry is now available on YouTube dot com Slash exactly right Media. Please follow that as well if you feel like it. Also a little bit of a sad announcement. After one hundred and eighty thrilling double features, we are saying goodbye to our beloved movie podcast I Saw What You Did is closing its cinema doors. We want to thank Danielle Henderson and Millie.

To Jericho for four years of hilarity and hardware. You guys did such an amazing job on that podcast, and we really we're really gonna miss.

To Jericho for four years of hilarity and hardware. You guys did such an amazing job on that podcast, and we really we're really gonna miss.

You definitely, and if you're a listener, please stay tuned because Millie will have exciting news for you in twenty twenty five, and until then, please enjoy their last episode where they cover Alien from nineteen seventy nine and Faster Pussycat Kill Kill from nineteen sixty five.

You definitely, and if you're a listener, please stay tuned because Millie will have exciting news for you in twenty twenty five, and until then, please enjoy their last episode where they cover Alien from nineteen seventy nine and Faster Pussycat Kill Kill from nineteen sixty five.

What a great duo to end on. Yeah, that's real. That's a really powerful uh sign off right there.

What a great duo to end on. Yeah, that's real. That's a really powerful uh sign off right there.

It is.

It is.

Thanksgiving Day is such a weird day. It's like everyone's working really hard, at least in our household. Everyone's like in the kitchen, like working really hard, and there's a kind of almost like it's a holiday, but it's the least holidayish of all the holidays, because it's a it's a holiday about people just busting us in the kitchen all day long and trying to make trying to time everything out and make it good. I'd rather just go to a Mexican restaurant. Yeah, I mean, that's my only option. If my dad and my sister didn't cook, I'd just be like, well.

Thanksgiving Day is such a weird day. It's like everyone's working really hard, at least in our household. Everyone's like in the kitchen, like working really hard, and there's a kind of almost like it's a holiday, but it's the least holidayish of all the holidays, because it's a it's a holiday about people just busting us in the kitchen all day long and trying to make trying to time everything out and make it good. I'd rather just go to a Mexican restaurant. Yeah, I mean, that's my only option. If my dad and my sister didn't cook, I'd just be like, well.

The vans he like has to have the whole thing, and so he and he has to have it a certain way, and like I wouldn't do it that way. So he's just like, I'll do it myself, and he does it himself.

The vans he like has to have the whole thing, and so he and he has to have it a certain way, and like I wouldn't do it that way. So he's just like, I'll do it myself, and he does it himself.

And is it like, is it the like classic Michigan way.

And is it like, is it the like classic Michigan way.

Classic Midwest, the whole castle thing. Yes, all of it.

Classic Midwest, the whole castle thing. Yes, all of it.

It's great. I'm happy.

It's great. I'm happy.

But it's all like a lot of these can stuff and instant that so like, I don't it's not that complicated.

But it's all like a lot of these can stuff and instant that so like, I don't it's not that complicated.

But yeah, oh well, also does he does he do ocean spray cranberry sauce with the with the can shape. I love that. You've got to favor and you just get your slices as big as the ripple of the can. Yes, it's perfect. I love Thanksgiving. It's today, it is so well, then let's celebrate with terrible stories. Okay, great, Okay, cool, because it's what be like. Okay, So today I'm going to tell you, uh, the story behind a federal law that you might not be familiar with. So it's not really a household name, but it fundamentally changed how colleges and universities across the US handles safety and transparency on campus. This is the story of the murder of Jean Clary, whose death exposed gaps in the existing system and sparked to push for real change. The sources of this story today are several articles that ran in the Morning Call newspaper in the nineteen eighties, a nineteen eighty nine Los Angeles Times article by journalist Beverly Bayette, a nineteen ninety People magazine article by journalist Ken Gross and Andrea Fine, and the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So Jean Clary is born in nineteen sixty six and grows up in Brynmar, Pennsylvania, which is just outside of Philadelphia. She's raised in a loving home with her parents, Howard and Connie, and her two older brothers, Benjamin and Howard Third. Her mom, Connie would later say that quote Jean loved her family with a passion, especially her brothers. She wanted to be just like her brothers. So she grows up. She's a great kid. She has a reputation for being kind and loyal and brave, and she's not afraid to stick up for classmates who are getting bullied or being overlooked. And for a while, Jean proudly rocks a gap in her smile after she lost her front tooth while skating. She's not afraid to be different, and she's not afraid to be herself. She's scrappy. Yeah. Her dad Howard would later tell People magazine quote, she was one of the first little girls on the local little league team. Wow, that's hard in them, like the early eighties, you're playing little league and people are like, what are you having doings? Allowed go to fucking homac and shut up. Yeah, And at that time when you were doing stuff like that, like I want to play baseball and I'm going to fight for my right to play baseball. Guess who didn't help you do that other little girls. Like that's the time where people are like, oh no, oh no, But I bet she was really good at baseball because she had two older brothers, right. Yeah. So later at college, she would reflect on her relation with her gender and her family in an essay that she called growing Up in an androgyny Environment, and in it she talks about how her parents treated her the same as her brothers, and that she was educated at an all girls school where she was able to quote hold positions that a male most likely would have held in a public school, such as school president, president of the athletic association, and head of the newspaper.

But yeah, oh well, also does he does he do ocean spray cranberry sauce with the with the can shape. I love that. You've got to favor and you just get your slices as big as the ripple of the can. Yes, it's perfect. I love Thanksgiving. It's today, it is so well, then let's celebrate with terrible stories. Okay, great, Okay, cool, because it's what be like. Okay, So today I'm going to tell you, uh, the story behind a federal law that you might not be familiar with. So it's not really a household name, but it fundamentally changed how colleges and universities across the US handles safety and transparency on campus. This is the story of the murder of Jean Clary, whose death exposed gaps in the existing system and sparked to push for real change. The sources of this story today are several articles that ran in the Morning Call newspaper in the nineteen eighties, a nineteen eighty nine Los Angeles Times article by journalist Beverly Bayette, a nineteen ninety People magazine article by journalist Ken Gross and Andrea Fine, and the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So Jean Clary is born in nineteen sixty six and grows up in Brynmar, Pennsylvania, which is just outside of Philadelphia. She's raised in a loving home with her parents, Howard and Connie, and her two older brothers, Benjamin and Howard Third. Her mom, Connie would later say that quote Jean loved her family with a passion, especially her brothers. She wanted to be just like her brothers. So she grows up. She's a great kid. She has a reputation for being kind and loyal and brave, and she's not afraid to stick up for classmates who are getting bullied or being overlooked. And for a while, Jean proudly rocks a gap in her smile after she lost her front tooth while skating. She's not afraid to be different, and she's not afraid to be herself. She's scrappy. Yeah. Her dad Howard would later tell People magazine quote, she was one of the first little girls on the local little league team. Wow, that's hard in them, like the early eighties, you're playing little league and people are like, what are you having doings? Allowed go to fucking homac and shut up. Yeah, And at that time when you were doing stuff like that, like I want to play baseball and I'm going to fight for my right to play baseball. Guess who didn't help you do that other little girls. Like that's the time where people are like, oh no, oh no, But I bet she was really good at baseball because she had two older brothers, right. Yeah. So later at college, she would reflect on her relation with her gender and her family in an essay that she called growing Up in an androgyny Environment, and in it she talks about how her parents treated her the same as her brothers, and that she was educated at an all girls school where she was able to quote hold positions that a male most likely would have held in a public school, such as school president, president of the athletic association, and head of the newspaper.

That's so interesting, I would have never thought of that, but yeah, yeah, all stuff that girls typically didn't do back then.

That's so interesting, I would have never thought of that, but yeah, yeah, all stuff that girls typically didn't do back then.

Right, and then you get this, You get this sense of like, of course we can do this, of course we should be doing this, right, And then you graduate from that school and you go out into the world and you're like, oh no, yeah, they hate it. Yeah, but I just love the idea. It's like an early eighties fighter. Yeah, you know. Yeah. So with that, Jeane is also she seems aware as a young woman that she's vulnerable in ways that aren't always in her control. So, for example, her first choice to go to college was at Tulane University in New Orleans, where her brothers went. She'd actually already applied and been accepted and planned on going there and joining the school's tennis team. But in the fall of nineteen eighty four, the Cleary family learned that an eighteen year old Tulane student named Karen Mincoln was raped and murdered in her off campus apartment by a man who also lived in the building. Oh my god. So, of course this tragedy rattles the Cleary family at Jean's mom, Connie later says, quote, we were so shocked Howard and me. We told Jane we couldn't allow her to go to Tulane. We were too frightened. It was just so far away. So the family decides to take what they believe is the safer path, which is that shean in rolls at Lehigh University, which is in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. It's about fifty miles from her parents' house, about like an hour and a half drive. It's an excellent school with a picturesque university look, complete with Gothic style buildings, winding walkways, a beautiful canopy of trees. It's like and Connie says, quote, Jeane just loves the campus, and I love the fact that it was an hour and twenty minutes away. Yeah. Yeah. So several months later, in late March of nineteen eighty six, Howard and Connie go to pick Gane up from school and take her back to Brynmar for the Easter holiday weekend, and Connie remembers, quote, she couldn't wait to get back. She loved Lehi. It was the happiest year of her life. So she gets back to school a couple days later, on the night of Friday, April fourth, Jean goes to a frat party and she stays there until around three am, when she heads back to her residence hall. So Jean's roommate lost her keys. This is such a like We've all done this a million times. Jean's roommate loses her keys and she's still out, So Jean leaves their dorm room door open unlocked for her so she can get in when she comes back night. For some fucking reason, you have all nights, just the kind a thing that goes on com Yeah, yeah, So Jeane leaves it door open and goes to sleep. So this residence hall, you know, it's the mid eighties, so it's a residence hall that has the exterior door that you need a key for. Then there's two interior doors, at least two, including the actual dorm room door. But on this night, which is a Friday night, all those doors are jammed open with pizza boxes so that the people in the dorms can have their friends come and go. Yeah, very common, just how it is. So sometime between four and six thirty in the morning, an intruder enters Jean's dorm, heads to the laundry room, steals a couple odds and ends and then goes upstairs, eventually stopping on the third floor, and that's where Jeane's doorm room is. And then the intruder just starts trying the doors, looking for one that's unlocked, and he finds one when he gets to Jean's door. He enters while she sleeps, and he grabs a radio, a camera, some jewelry, some cash. But then Jean wakes up and finds a man in her dark room. He brutally attacks her and rapes her. He mutilates her neck with a broken beer bottle, bites her, he beats her, and then he strangles her to death and then leaves with the valuables he's stolen. So when another student notices that her door has been left open all night, they enter and discover Jean's brutalized body. Hours later, Jean's parents get a knock at their door, and when they open it, they find a policeman standing there. Connie says, quote, most Americans saw the Space Shuttle challenge or splinter into a billion pieces, That's what happened to our hearts. Yeah, so it doesn't take long for investigators to identify Jeane's killer. It's another Lee High student, a twenty year old sof warn't named Joseph Henry So. Joseph had been co hosting a party that same night at his off campus apartment with his roommates, and he got very drunk and his crush left with another guy, and he got really mad. He kicked down a door in his own apartment, and then later on, when his roommates had gone to sleep, he walked basically onto campus to Jean's residence hall. Joseph and Jean had never met. It wasn't like he was going to look for her. So when he gets back home after this attack, only a couple hours passed and he admits what he did to his roommates, wow, and they go to police. He's arrested immediately. So it's important to note Joseph is black, Jean is white. So you can imagine how this case got treated in nineteen eighties media. It's his total circus and it actually has a real effect on the Lehigh campus. The students of color who go to Lehigh are left to process this horrific crime, as well as that instant sensationalism around the interracial element of the crime. And there's only about sixty black students in a student body of six thousand. Wow. One Lehigh alum will later remember quote, it was the most horrible crime you can imagine, and has also kind of reinforced racial stereotypes. It was very hostile for the students who were there through that period. We didn't necessarily see it directly targeting us, but it's sort of lived on through the stories and the dynamic. So you're already definitely experiencing standard racism, being sixty out of six thousand, and suddenly now you know, it's just like people if they're going to blame you, whether they do it overtly or it's just like the energy. Yeah, and it's part of the conversation. Yeah, matter what. Right. So Joseph has tried, it's basically an open and shutcase for the prosecution. Police find missing items from Jean's dorm room inside of Joseph's bedroom he admitted, of course to his roommates. The evidence is all there. His defense tries an insanity plea that hinged on the idea the theory that Joseph had a rare reaction to alcohol and experienced a personality change while intoxicated, but the jury doesn't buy it and ultimately convicts him. He's currently now serving a life sentence. He has expressed regret for his actions. So meanwhile, the Cleary family is of course just inundated in this tragedy, and then they learn something that shocks them. In the three years preceding Jean's murder, there had been thirty eight reports of violent offenses on Lee High's campus, including rapes and robberies. And considering the fact that many crimes, especially rape, don't get reported at all, it's a pretty high number. First goal, with only six thousand students. To compare, Penn State has a student body of around sixty thousand at that time and there were twenty four offenses reported. Wow, okay, that's a really high rate. Yeah. So the Clearies base their decision on what college Gene would go to primarily based on the idea of campus safety. So having access to that information about Lehigh, of course, would have impacted that decision. At the time, only four percent of colleges and universities in the US track this type of data. Connie says, quote, I knew I was going to have to do something to try to prevent other parents, other students from this eternal nightmare that never goes away. It never goes away. But the Clearies take their grief and channel it into activism, our favorite kind of story. So they sue Lehigh University for twenty five million dollars in damages, and that lawsuit settles out of court for an undisclosed amount out. But then they take that settlement money and their own money, and the entire family starts a watchdog group called Security on Campus, including the dad Howard, who quit his job at a metal order business to join the family and work on this. That's amazing, Yeah, And they basically as a family and as this business start collecting data on campus crimes. Wow right, it's so innovative.

Right, and then you get this, You get this sense of like, of course we can do this, of course we should be doing this, right, And then you graduate from that school and you go out into the world and you're like, oh no, yeah, they hate it. Yeah, but I just love the idea. It's like an early eighties fighter. Yeah, you know. Yeah. So with that, Jeane is also she seems aware as a young woman that she's vulnerable in ways that aren't always in her control. So, for example, her first choice to go to college was at Tulane University in New Orleans, where her brothers went. She'd actually already applied and been accepted and planned on going there and joining the school's tennis team. But in the fall of nineteen eighty four, the Cleary family learned that an eighteen year old Tulane student named Karen Mincoln was raped and murdered in her off campus apartment by a man who also lived in the building. Oh my god. So, of course this tragedy rattles the Cleary family at Jean's mom, Connie later says, quote, we were so shocked Howard and me. We told Jane we couldn't allow her to go to Tulane. We were too frightened. It was just so far away. So the family decides to take what they believe is the safer path, which is that shean in rolls at Lehigh University, which is in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. It's about fifty miles from her parents' house, about like an hour and a half drive. It's an excellent school with a picturesque university look, complete with Gothic style buildings, winding walkways, a beautiful canopy of trees. It's like and Connie says, quote, Jeane just loves the campus, and I love the fact that it was an hour and twenty minutes away. Yeah. Yeah. So several months later, in late March of nineteen eighty six, Howard and Connie go to pick Gane up from school and take her back to Brynmar for the Easter holiday weekend, and Connie remembers, quote, she couldn't wait to get back. She loved Lehi. It was the happiest year of her life. So she gets back to school a couple days later, on the night of Friday, April fourth, Jean goes to a frat party and she stays there until around three am, when she heads back to her residence hall. So Jean's roommate lost her keys. This is such a like We've all done this a million times. Jean's roommate loses her keys and she's still out, So Jean leaves their dorm room door open unlocked for her so she can get in when she comes back night. For some fucking reason, you have all nights, just the kind a thing that goes on com Yeah, yeah, So Jeane leaves it door open and goes to sleep. So this residence hall, you know, it's the mid eighties, so it's a residence hall that has the exterior door that you need a key for. Then there's two interior doors, at least two, including the actual dorm room door. But on this night, which is a Friday night, all those doors are jammed open with pizza boxes so that the people in the dorms can have their friends come and go. Yeah, very common, just how it is. So sometime between four and six thirty in the morning, an intruder enters Jean's dorm, heads to the laundry room, steals a couple odds and ends and then goes upstairs, eventually stopping on the third floor, and that's where Jeane's doorm room is. And then the intruder just starts trying the doors, looking for one that's unlocked, and he finds one when he gets to Jean's door. He enters while she sleeps, and he grabs a radio, a camera, some jewelry, some cash. But then Jean wakes up and finds a man in her dark room. He brutally attacks her and rapes her. He mutilates her neck with a broken beer bottle, bites her, he beats her, and then he strangles her to death and then leaves with the valuables he's stolen. So when another student notices that her door has been left open all night, they enter and discover Jean's brutalized body. Hours later, Jean's parents get a knock at their door, and when they open it, they find a policeman standing there. Connie says, quote, most Americans saw the Space Shuttle challenge or splinter into a billion pieces, That's what happened to our hearts. Yeah, so it doesn't take long for investigators to identify Jeane's killer. It's another Lee High student, a twenty year old sof warn't named Joseph Henry So. Joseph had been co hosting a party that same night at his off campus apartment with his roommates, and he got very drunk and his crush left with another guy, and he got really mad. He kicked down a door in his own apartment, and then later on, when his roommates had gone to sleep, he walked basically onto campus to Jean's residence hall. Joseph and Jean had never met. It wasn't like he was going to look for her. So when he gets back home after this attack, only a couple hours passed and he admits what he did to his roommates, wow, and they go to police. He's arrested immediately. So it's important to note Joseph is black, Jean is white. So you can imagine how this case got treated in nineteen eighties media. It's his total circus and it actually has a real effect on the Lehigh campus. The students of color who go to Lehigh are left to process this horrific crime, as well as that instant sensationalism around the interracial element of the crime. And there's only about sixty black students in a student body of six thousand. Wow. One Lehigh alum will later remember quote, it was the most horrible crime you can imagine, and has also kind of reinforced racial stereotypes. It was very hostile for the students who were there through that period. We didn't necessarily see it directly targeting us, but it's sort of lived on through the stories and the dynamic. So you're already definitely experiencing standard racism, being sixty out of six thousand, and suddenly now you know, it's just like people if they're going to blame you, whether they do it overtly or it's just like the energy. Yeah, and it's part of the conversation. Yeah, matter what. Right. So Joseph has tried, it's basically an open and shutcase for the prosecution. Police find missing items from Jean's dorm room inside of Joseph's bedroom he admitted, of course to his roommates. The evidence is all there. His defense tries an insanity plea that hinged on the idea the theory that Joseph had a rare reaction to alcohol and experienced a personality change while intoxicated, but the jury doesn't buy it and ultimately convicts him. He's currently now serving a life sentence. He has expressed regret for his actions. So meanwhile, the Cleary family is of course just inundated in this tragedy, and then they learn something that shocks them. In the three years preceding Jean's murder, there had been thirty eight reports of violent offenses on Lee High's campus, including rapes and robberies. And considering the fact that many crimes, especially rape, don't get reported at all, it's a pretty high number. First goal, with only six thousand students. To compare, Penn State has a student body of around sixty thousand at that time and there were twenty four offenses reported. Wow, okay, that's a really high rate. Yeah. So the Clearies base their decision on what college Gene would go to primarily based on the idea of campus safety. So having access to that information about Lehigh, of course, would have impacted that decision. At the time, only four percent of colleges and universities in the US track this type of data. Connie says, quote, I knew I was going to have to do something to try to prevent other parents, other students from this eternal nightmare that never goes away. It never goes away. But the Clearies take their grief and channel it into activism, our favorite kind of story. So they sue Lehigh University for twenty five million dollars in damages, and that lawsuit settles out of court for an undisclosed amount out. But then they take that settlement money and their own money, and the entire family starts a watchdog group called Security on Campus, including the dad Howard, who quit his job at a metal order business to join the family and work on this. That's amazing, Yeah, And they basically as a family and as this business start collecting data on campus crimes. Wow right, it's so innovative.

Yeah, instead of just throwing money at it, they're like creating this system that's necessary help a solution totally.

Yeah, instead of just throwing money at it, they're like creating this system that's necessary help a solution totally.

And it's the eighties, so collecting data data is just fucking It must have been like what do you do? You write the government for it, or you like call people on the phone.

And it's the eighties, so collecting data data is just fucking It must have been like what do you do? You write the government for it, or you like call people on the phone.

I have here the dot matrix printer. That going right, right?

I have here the dot matrix printer. That going right, right?

I don't think we're even two fax machines at this point. At the same time, the Clearies launched an aggressive campaign to reform and enhance campus security. They realized that colleges might not choose to publicize this type of data to protect their reputations. So the Cleary's first move, which is so smart, is to lobby elected officials to pass legislation mandating it. The Clearies, alongside several survivors who join them in their mission, begin to quote pound the halls of Congress, and Connie adds quote, you couldn't have paid me a million dollars to get up and speak before, but Jean's death has freed me. I'm not afraid of anything or anybody anymore. And those efforts payoff. In nineteen eighty eight, Pennsylvania's then governor Bob Casey signs a bill into law that requires all state colleges and universities to regularly publish three years worth of campus crime reports. Shortly after, more than a dozen other states follow suit. Then, in nineteen ninety, George hw Bush signs the Gene Cleary Act into law at the national level, and this is described as a federal consumer protection law, and it requires any university that receives federal funding to track and publicize crime statistics on various offenses, including robbery, sexual assault, hate crimes, stocking, homicides, and more.

I don't think we're even two fax machines at this point. At the same time, the Clearies launched an aggressive campaign to reform and enhance campus security. They realized that colleges might not choose to publicize this type of data to protect their reputations. So the Cleary's first move, which is so smart, is to lobby elected officials to pass legislation mandating it. The Clearies, alongside several survivors who join them in their mission, begin to quote pound the halls of Congress, and Connie adds quote, you couldn't have paid me a million dollars to get up and speak before, but Jean's death has freed me. I'm not afraid of anything or anybody anymore. And those efforts payoff. In nineteen eighty eight, Pennsylvania's then governor Bob Casey signs a bill into law that requires all state colleges and universities to regularly publish three years worth of campus crime reports. Shortly after, more than a dozen other states follow suit. Then, in nineteen ninety, George hw Bush signs the Gene Cleary Act into law at the national level, and this is described as a federal consumer protection law, and it requires any university that receives federal funding to track and publicize crime statistics on various offenses, including robbery, sexual assault, hate crimes, stocking, homicides, and more.

That's amazing And I love the consumer part of it because it's so true you are paying to go to this institution. You are you know you are a consumer of this institution. Yes, especially if they're fucking federally funded.

That's amazing And I love the consumer part of it because it's so true you are paying to go to this institution. You are you know you are a consumer of this institution. Yes, especially if they're fucking federally funded.

You wouldn't send your child to a movie theater where you got the information that people punched people randomly in the face right all the time. So you're like, yep, I won't go ahead and spend my money there, I'll take it somewhere else where they care about safety.

You wouldn't send your child to a movie theater where you got the information that people punched people randomly in the face right all the time. So you're like, yep, I won't go ahead and spend my money there, I'll take it somewhere else where they care about safety.

And if you don't care about safety and you know, don't want to put any effort into it, your numbers will be bad and reflect that. So they'll put more money into it so they don't have to put those numbers out.

And if you don't care about safety and you know, don't want to put any effort into it, your numbers will be bad and reflect that. So they'll put more money into it so they don't have to put those numbers out.

Yeah, that's so smart. It's so smart. You've how to force people to fucking behave a lot. Yeah, And I think that idea of like as a family making those kinds of really calculated, very smart strategic decisions that it's like, let's not stand over here and try to get people to like believe car just go straight to get a lot passed.

Yeah, that's so smart. It's so smart. You've how to force people to fucking behave a lot. Yeah, And I think that idea of like as a family making those kinds of really calculated, very smart strategic decisions that it's like, let's not stand over here and try to get people to like believe car just go straight to get a lot passed.

Let's not ask them politely let's just make it that if they don't do it, their bottom line will be.

Let's not ask them politely let's just make it that if they don't do it, their bottom line will be.

Affected, because that's really what they give a shit about. Yeah, wow, we're all over colleges and universities exploits. Why we didn't go to college. It's why they kicked us out, Ring Ring Sex State. Yes what listen, City College loved it.

Affected, because that's really what they give a shit about. Yeah, wow, we're all over colleges and universities exploits. Why we didn't go to college. It's why they kicked us out, Ring Ring Sex State. Yes what listen, City College loved it.

I did.

I did.

It was a good time. There was a great time. This law also requires schools to publish a report explaining their plans for handling emergencies from national disasters to mass shootings, as well as measures taken to secure on campus buildings. So just like what you got together and turn it in.

It was a good time. There was a great time. This law also requires schools to publish a report explaining their plans for handling emergencies from national disasters to mass shootings, as well as measures taken to secure on campus buildings. So just like what you got together and turn it in.

You're going to offer this place, and you need to also offer, you know, some kind of of safety.

You're going to offer this place, and you need to also offer, you know, some kind of of safety.

Yeah. The Clearact goes beyond physical violence. Students can file Cleary complaints for anything that threatens their safety on campus, and that includes threats to their personal health. And Universities that don't comply with the Clear Act are fined by the Department of Education, and there have been several high profile examples of those violations. One infamous one is the two point four million dollar fine levied against Penn State for not publicly reporting incidents involving former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky ahead of his twenty twelve conviction for serial sexual abuse, as well as the four point five million dollar fine on Michigan State University for its failure to protect students from doctor Larry Nassar, who sexually abused hundreds of female gymnasts before being convicted in twenty seventeen. So the stats that universities are required to collect under the Clearact are imperfect, of course. For example, it's well established that sexual assault remains seriously underreported. The website of the American Association of University Women notes that quote despite numerous studies showing that rape is common on campuses, Eighty nine percent of colleges and universities reported zero incidents of rape. Seventy seven percent of campuses reported zero incidents of sexual assault, including rape and fondling, domestic violence, dating violence, and stalking zero percent. Can you imagine that world as like I would fucking it. I would go and move there immediately.

Yeah. The Clearact goes beyond physical violence. Students can file Cleary complaints for anything that threatens their safety on campus, and that includes threats to their personal health. And Universities that don't comply with the Clear Act are fined by the Department of Education, and there have been several high profile examples of those violations. One infamous one is the two point four million dollar fine levied against Penn State for not publicly reporting incidents involving former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky ahead of his twenty twelve conviction for serial sexual abuse, as well as the four point five million dollar fine on Michigan State University for its failure to protect students from doctor Larry Nassar, who sexually abused hundreds of female gymnasts before being convicted in twenty seventeen. So the stats that universities are required to collect under the Clearact are imperfect, of course. For example, it's well established that sexual assault remains seriously underreported. The website of the American Association of University Women notes that quote despite numerous studies showing that rape is common on campuses, Eighty nine percent of colleges and universities reported zero incidents of rape. Seventy seven percent of campuses reported zero incidents of sexual assault, including rape and fondling, domestic violence, dating violence, and stalking zero percent. Can you imagine that world as like I would fucking it. I would go and move there immediately.

If if you get zero percent, you need to be fucking worried, because that means you're in a culture that is scaring women and scaring survivors into not really all that it means yes, that's right. It doesn't mean it's safe. Right, that's that's almost scarier.

If if you get zero percent, you need to be fucking worried, because that means you're in a culture that is scaring women and scaring survivors into not really all that it means yes, that's right. It doesn't mean it's safe. Right, that's that's almost scarier.

Yes, a cup of coffee. Yeah, a shocking statistic that speaks to the inadequacy of reporting structures rather than the frequency of events. Finished. No, no, no, I think your wording was much clearer and more understandable. But I mean it is that kind of thing. I feel like that if that isn't a thing that's threatening to you, then that isn't a thing that's It's very easy to brush that off if you're some college dean and you're just like it's fine, and see it's zero. Yeah, it zero. So now, the Cleary Act has been amended multiple times. It's far more extensive than it was in the mid eighties. Like many significant laws, including Title nine, which deals with sex based discrimination on campus and overlaps with the Cleary Act, it has faced some criticism for becoming overly complex and bogged down by bureaucracy. Yeah, so have they all.

Yes, a cup of coffee. Yeah, a shocking statistic that speaks to the inadequacy of reporting structures rather than the frequency of events. Finished. No, no, no, I think your wording was much clearer and more understandable. But I mean it is that kind of thing. I feel like that if that isn't a thing that's threatening to you, then that isn't a thing that's It's very easy to brush that off if you're some college dean and you're just like it's fine, and see it's zero. Yeah, it zero. So now, the Cleary Act has been amended multiple times. It's far more extensive than it was in the mid eighties. Like many significant laws, including Title nine, which deals with sex based discrimination on campus and overlaps with the Cleary Act, it has faced some criticism for becoming overly complex and bogged down by bureaucracy. Yeah, so have they all.

Yeah, I'd rather have that than the yeah nothing, can I can we just have can we have something that's complicated rather than nothing that's nothing?

Yeah, I'd rather have that than the yeah nothing, can I can we just have can we have something that's complicated rather than nothing that's nothing?

Something that's this horrible is going to have complicated solutions. I'm really on my high horse on this one. It's almost like saying it's like, so it's complicated, so just don't do it.

Something that's this horrible is going to have complicated solutions. I'm really on my high horse on this one. It's almost like saying it's like, so it's complicated, so just don't do it.

It's too complicated. No, it's too complicated. Sorry, then stop fucking, sexually assaulting and raping fuckers.

It's too complicated. No, it's too complicated. Sorry, then stop fucking, sexually assaulting and raping fuckers.

Well it's not perfect. The Cleary's Crusade is an undeniable, huge step towards greater transparency from academic institutions. Meanwhile, their original organization, Security on Campus, is now the Cleary Center, and it continues to advocate for safer campuses by raising awareness around things like hazing and binge drinking. In twenty fifteen, on the twenty fifth anniversary of the Gene Cleary Acts passing, Jean's mother, Connie says, quote, it took an army and it took my life. It was worth every single bit. Oh my god, yah, I'm mad. I know. So. November twenty third, which is this week, would have been Jean Clary's fifty eighth birthday, And here's her as a teenager. Oh bright, beautiful smile. She truly looks like every girl I knew in the eighties. Totally outside of her old residence hall at Lehigh, there's a plaque honoring her, and it says, quote, lest we forget the meaning of her death, we must protect one another so that her life will not have been in vain. And that is the story of Jean Cleary and the federal law named in her honor.

Well it's not perfect. The Cleary's Crusade is an undeniable, huge step towards greater transparency from academic institutions. Meanwhile, their original organization, Security on Campus, is now the Cleary Center, and it continues to advocate for safer campuses by raising awareness around things like hazing and binge drinking. In twenty fifteen, on the twenty fifth anniversary of the Gene Cleary Acts passing, Jean's mother, Connie says, quote, it took an army and it took my life. It was worth every single bit. Oh my god, yah, I'm mad. I know. So. November twenty third, which is this week, would have been Jean Clary's fifty eighth birthday, And here's her as a teenager. Oh bright, beautiful smile. She truly looks like every girl I knew in the eighties. Totally outside of her old residence hall at Lehigh, there's a plaque honoring her, and it says, quote, lest we forget the meaning of her death, we must protect one another so that her life will not have been in vain. And that is the story of Jean Cleary and the federal law named in her honor.

Oh my god, I did not know about that at all me either.

Oh my god, I did not know about that at all me either.

That's incredible. I had no idea.

That's incredible. I had no idea.

Wow, that was amazing, great job, thank you, great Thanksgiving story, I know, right, yeah, all right, well let's take a fucking all the one eighty three sixty fucking.

Wow, that was amazing, great job, thank you, great Thanksgiving story, I know, right, yeah, all right, well let's take a fucking all the one eighty three sixty fucking.

Let's go from you know, eating the salad and having our vegetables straightened. Dessert. It is dessert time.

Let's go from you know, eating the salad and having our vegetables straightened. Dessert. It is dessert time.

It's dessert time. Okay, I'm gonna tell you a very deserty story. It's about a tween and teen cousins getting into mischief together and in doing so, accidentally creating one of the UK's most endearing debates on fantastical, unexplained creatures in the vein of like what you love, fucking lockness or Bigfoot. But this one, this is the story of the Coddingly Fairies.

It's dessert time. Okay, I'm gonna tell you a very deserty story. It's about a tween and teen cousins getting into mischief together and in doing so, accidentally creating one of the UK's most endearing debates on fantastical, unexplained creatures in the vein of like what you love, fucking lockness or Bigfoot. But this one, this is the story of the Coddingly Fairies.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, so excited. I love this story and I love how far it went.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, so excited. I love this story and I love how far it went.

Yeah, it went really far, and we're gonna have to talk about why because it's so confounding. Okay, because I'll show you the photos too. I'm trite tenum. The main sources for this story are two articles from BBC News and the rest of the sources can be found in our show notes. All right, well, let's start in one of your favorite times and places, the late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds. Picture it. The industrial Revolution is starting to take over the world. All these rural communities are coming into big cities, and this is how people are now living and making money, and just this is.

Yeah, it went really far, and we're gonna have to talk about why because it's so confounding. Okay, because I'll show you the photos too. I'm trite tenum. The main sources for this story are two articles from BBC News and the rest of the sources can be found in our show notes. All right, well, let's start in one of your favorite times and places, the late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds. Picture it. The industrial Revolution is starting to take over the world. All these rural communities are coming into big cities, and this is how people are now living and making money, and just this is.

How society is sadly headed.

How society is sadly headed.

Yeah, right, And so this means that our once reliance and connection with nature and traditional lifestyles that relied upon nature is starting to fracture. And it's during this time, then, of course, that people start to romanticize that connection that we supposedly had, thinking of it as an innocent time and using it kind of as magical escapism. So it's in this vein that the fairy esthetic becomes a huge trend in the UK, even being nicknamed fairy fever. Oh and this is for everyone, I don't know, it's these little it's like tinker Bell essentially.

Yeah, right, And so this means that our once reliance and connection with nature and traditional lifestyles that relied upon nature is starting to fracture. And it's during this time, then, of course, that people start to romanticize that connection that we supposedly had, thinking of it as an innocent time and using it kind of as magical escapism. So it's in this vein that the fairy esthetic becomes a huge trend in the UK, even being nicknamed fairy fever. Oh and this is for everyone, I don't know, it's these little it's like tinker Bell essentially.

Yeah, that's the fairy idea we're talking.

Yeah, that's the fairy idea we're talking.

About, and actually got huge in Victorian children's literally, so children grew up with fairy art and stories of course, particularly in the wildly popular Peter Pan which debuted in nineteen oh seven and then it was a massive sensation and then it was performed as a play consistently for about twenty five years, so people were.

About, and actually got huge in Victorian children's literally, so children grew up with fairy art and stories of course, particularly in the wildly popular Peter Pan which debuted in nineteen oh seven and then it was a massive sensation and then it was performed as a play consistently for about twenty five years, so people were.

Obsessed with this. Every child went and saw the play.

Obsessed with this. Every child went and saw the play.

I mean clapping if you believe in fairies, that kind of thing, I know.

I mean clapping if you believe in fairies, that kind of thing, I know.

To bring Tinkerbell back. Yeah, remember also in m KUNTI and I loved it. Yeah, Tinkerbell is like it's my way or the highway. Yeah. But also in Irish culture, like my grandpa grew up believing in fairies and telling us about like no, they're real, really like they're on our property. Oh yeah, completely, because it's part of that living with nature totally where you're let you know, a circle of mushrooms is a fairy ring. Yeah, that kind of stuff where it's like, oh it's it's the way people explain what nature's.

To bring Tinkerbell back. Yeah, remember also in m KUNTI and I loved it. Yeah, Tinkerbell is like it's my way or the highway. Yeah. But also in Irish culture, like my grandpa grew up believing in fairies and telling us about like no, they're real, really like they're on our property. Oh yeah, completely, because it's part of that living with nature totally where you're let you know, a circle of mushrooms is a fairy ring. Yeah, that kind of stuff where it's like, oh it's it's the way people explain what nature's.

Doing and you know makes sense of it. Yeah yeah, or they're real or.

Doing and you know makes sense of it. Yeah yeah, or they're real or.

They're real and they planted those munch rooms perfectly with a compass.

They're real and they planted those munch rooms perfectly with a compass.

More than three hundred and fifty books about fairies are published in the UK between nineteen twenty and nineteen twenty five. Wow, that's a fucking lot. And adults are into fairy stuff, but for them the fascination it kind of overlaps with spiritualism, which I know you love. This is the same time period when seances are becoming very popular, and people attribute this to the grief that adults, of course felt in the aftermath of World War One. They wanted that connection with the afterlife so that all of their sons who died didn't die in vain and they can still connect with them.

More than three hundred and fifty books about fairies are published in the UK between nineteen twenty and nineteen twenty five. Wow, that's a fucking lot. And adults are into fairy stuff, but for them the fascination it kind of overlaps with spiritualism, which I know you love. This is the same time period when seances are becoming very popular, and people attribute this to the grief that adults, of course felt in the aftermath of World War One. They wanted that connection with the afterlife so that all of their sons who died didn't die in vain and they can still connect with them.

You know.

You know.

That's understandable. Yeah, and also just a little the idea of like this isn't just how life is, Yeah, there's more. There's magic out there.

That's understandable. Yeah, and also just a little the idea of like this isn't just how life is, Yeah, there's more. There's magic out there.

Totally, and so people see proof of the existence of fairies as a corroboration for other fantastical ideas that they would like to approach with the seriousness of science. A lot of people who are really into the afterlife are pissed off that fairies are lumped in to what they're into, you know, saying like they don't believe in that, and you're making this see must legit, but all other people like see them all as kind of this, like fairy tale is true.

Totally, and so people see proof of the existence of fairies as a corroboration for other fantastical ideas that they would like to approach with the seriousness of science. A lot of people who are really into the afterlife are pissed off that fairies are lumped in to what they're into, you know, saying like they don't believe in that, and you're making this see must legit, but all other people like see them all as kind of this, like fairy tale is true.

I like to just put them all on one shirt and then that's what that's what decides. What do you mean you just like if you want a sweatshirt, Yeah, you can have some spiritual stuff over spiritualism stuff over here, and some fairies, okay. And then you're like, I've been reincarnated.

I like to just put them all on one shirt and then that's what that's what decides. What do you mean you just like if you want a sweatshirt, Yeah, you can have some spiritual stuff over spiritualism stuff over here, and some fairies, okay. And then you're like, I've been reincarnated.

I thought you were going to say, like when it's like spiritualism and reincarnation and fairies, and when it's just all the names like.

I thought you were going to say, like when it's like spiritualism and reincarnation and fairies, and when it's just all the names like.

The John Ringo, Paul and Judy, it's just the fourth Beatle. I can't remember Judy, Judy, Judy. Okay.

The John Ringo, Paul and Judy, it's just the fourth Beatle. I can't remember Judy, Judy, Judy. Okay.

So here we are in this headspace and now we're going to travel to the north of England in the summer of nineteen seventeen. Wars just ended, and we're near Leads in the village of Cottingly, which is part of the city of Bradford.

So here we are in this headspace and now we're going to travel to the north of England in the summer of nineteen seventeen. Wars just ended, and we're near Leads in the village of Cottingly, which is part of the city of Bradford.

Got it. Sure.

Got it. Sure.

We're in the home of the Right family, which backs up to a little wooded valley. At the bottom of that valley is a small body of water. I mean it's a fucking novel.

We're in the home of the Right family, which backs up to a little wooded valley. At the bottom of that valley is a small body of water. I mean it's a fucking novel.

You just kid, You're like, I'm gonna just go walk out into the woods. Yeah, and writes itself.

You just kid, You're like, I'm gonna just go walk out into the woods. Yeah, and writes itself.

There's just like a stream and it's called the Cottingly Beck, and a beck is a regional term for a brook. Okay, So the Right family is made up of the married couple named Paully and Arthur and their sixteen year old daughter, Elsie. Elsie loves to draw, she's a skilled artist. Her father is an amateur photographer with his own dark room, and Elsie has learned a lot about photography from him.

There's just like a stream and it's called the Cottingly Beck, and a beck is a regional term for a brook. Okay, So the Right family is made up of the married couple named Paully and Arthur and their sixteen year old daughter, Elsie. Elsie loves to draw, she's a skilled artist. Her father is an amateur photographer with his own dark room, and Elsie has learned a lot about photography from him.

Which is, oh my god, so cute.

Which is, oh my god, so cute.

Also living with the family is Elsie's aunt and her nine year old cousin, Francis, who recently moved back to England from South Africa, where, of course colonization was rampant. So even though Elsie is a lot older than her cousin, you know, sixteen and nine, you wouldn't think they'd be best of friends, but the two girls get along and they love playing together, and in particular, they like to hang out by that beck where they typically get in to trouble for getting their clothes and shoes wet and for tracking mon into the house sounds like a fucking great child dream.

Also living with the family is Elsie's aunt and her nine year old cousin, Francis, who recently moved back to England from South Africa, where, of course colonization was rampant. So even though Elsie is a lot older than her cousin, you know, sixteen and nine, you wouldn't think they'd be best of friends, but the two girls get along and they love playing together, and in particular, they like to hang out by that beck where they typically get in to trouble for getting their clothes and shoes wet and for tracking mon into the house sounds like a fucking great child dream.

We got to hang out near a creek growing up. That sounds amazing, Just like there was a creek in our backyard. You just went down there and it just like hung out. We hung out by the like La river and drank under bridges and like and raced with the pink ladies. Yeah, smoke cigarettes and yeah, it takes all kinds, Yeah it does.

We got to hang out near a creek growing up. That sounds amazing, Just like there was a creek in our backyard. You just went down there and it just like hung out. We hung out by the like La river and drank under bridges and like and raced with the pink ladies. Yeah, smoke cigarettes and yeah, it takes all kinds, Yeah it does.

So when the mom's yell at them for getting wet, Elsie and Francis seeks all, it's my new favorite thing.