My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia HardstarkKaren and Georgia cover the Claremont Serial Killer.
A one, two, three.
Whoa, that was perfect. That was the most perfect one to me.
Lastly, Hello, Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder the podcast, the true crime podcast. You've been listening to for a couple of years.
That's right, got almost five at this point. Oh wow, five years just like the most. This is the longest I've ever had a job. For sure. This is going to be my second longest relationship pretty soon.
Nice.
Yeah.
I think we've put a lot of work into it. I think we've made it something special.
We really have it. We didn't abandon it, No, we want we wanted to. At times we didn't want to time. Oh it like your two and a half got messy.
It was very difficult to do. Hey, listen, all that sounds stupid now in the pandemic, right, doesn't that sound like the dumbest fucking shit in the world.
Absolutely like God like matters.
Be nostalgic for old problems you used to have that used to take up your whole life, and now you would kill for those to be your whole life problem.
Oh man ah. And then the little things too that you miss about your normal wafe. I miss eyeliner, I miss liquid eyeliner and putting it on and lipstick for a reason. Yeah yeah, and like any of that stuff.
Yes, any kind of plan to meet another human being, a look in the face, excitement, uh huh, wonder truly, just a deep, profound respect for your fellow man across the restaurant table from you. Well, we're all when.
This is over, not the woods. We're all going to be different and better, right, better people. We're going to appreciate life more. We're going to live in a moment instead of having future panic and past panic.
There's just no point. We're all on a clock. We got it. We got to maximize these moments while we can.
Hopefully we're all listening during this time, taking time to work on ourselves, listening to a shit ton of self help podcast.
Oh I am Georgia. You should see the ab work.
Oh I'm not doing that.
It's crazy.
How's that trampoline going behind you? It looks like it's.
On its back like a beatle? Does look like a dead bug. I tried to roll it out the scope of my zoom, and I hate to brag to everybody, but my zoom picks up the entire room. I don't know why. The width of it is just.
It's just in sight. It's not a tight shot.
So I can't hide the trampoline I used four times and really thought I was onto something. And then what usually happens we could track this. Usually it's that someone comes over and I want to hide all my shit and make it look like I'm much cleaner and tidier than I actually am. And then things get put away and they never come back out.
Okay, so it's not there in front of you. You're just not going to use it. Yeah, I like that too. I get that.
Yeah, we'll work on it. We'll do we'll work on it.
It's like it's almost Halloween, which everyone knows is a great time to refocus your energies onto the.
Perfect time to reset all the candy and your systems, your brand new candies.
I've already overdone it on candy in a way. Those what kind did you would you buy?
We got?
We got a bunch of the bags that have like two good candies and like two bad ones.
Gotta you gotta pay the price.
That's never happened, never have four good ones, so you can just buy one, Karen, I just realized, fuck the candy. Talk. Did you change the haunted chair?
Yeah, well Stephen made me, I mean asked me very politely too. Sorry, Oh my god.
Karen's like, foll time you've been sitting in this chair that sounds haunted when you move, creaking like boards of the basement haunted.
I mean again, it is a sensitivity I have with me and chairs. But I will say this. Those are jury chairs from downtown Los Angeles in like the twenties or thirties. They were. I found them in some store in a silver Lake but yeah, basically in like nineteen or two thousand and one or two thousand and two. That's cool.
So they are you can actually the farts of jurors from way back when, yeah old.
A bunch of you know, middle aged men that looked like Ernest borgnine were the people that were on trials back then. We saw the play, we know. So now I have this whisper silent folding chair that my friend Karen Anderson gave me as a housewarming present. That's my favorite. Like it's all old. Yeah, I like it, and it I've seen it right, Yeah, gorgeous. It looks like wood, but it's a padded seat.
It's gorgeous print in my grandma's card table room, exactly exactly the card. When the late extra ladies came over to play cards, she'd have a chair to bring out hole.
Yeah, and by that you mean the crazy ladies, the ones that we're a little.
Bit extra the best. Oh my god, that's my favorite. When I was a kid and she, i'd stay with her for the summer and she'd take me to the card the card games at her friend's house and they'd all give me like all the candy. Yeah, look at all their chatchkeys. And it was just so much fun.
Yeah, candy, and you'd take a nap because it would be very warm.
Yeah, and it's smell like a grandma, which I love.
Everybody called you honey, Yeah, I know, Grandma energy. We could really do for some Grandma energy in the world right now.
Big Grandma energy is what we need.
You know.
What.
I saw this, which is the kind of the corniest of all social media things, but my very favorite, which is every year the holidays, the tweet goes around of the boy that got the text from the lady that said be here whatever, and then he said, uh, well, I'm not your grandson, but can I have a plate, and she said, of course that's what grandma's do. You know. They're still doing it, and that boy is now married.
I love them.
So he's married now to this girl about COVID, they still well, he said, they're still going this.
They can have a zoom or maybe like a yeah, an outdoor social I mean it's Christmas.
It was never a big group at that family, but that it really is. My sister and I were talking about it. It's such a feel good, like you know, deep down, maybe we can all get a long type of thing because that lady came at that thing with such energy, like of course you can. Just like those are the grandma's, I.
Know, treat yourself like a grandma who's nice, Like if you have a county grandma, don't treat yourself like that. But yeah, if you treat yourself like you imagine a grandma is supposed to be.
Yeah, if there were many grandparents and people of your who were very damaged by coming up in this like the American make or break kind of like you're on your own from age five, bullshit abuses the standard and shut up about your feelings.
You're going to roll your own cigarettes because we don't have the money for free world cigarettes at.
Five Yeah whatever, Yeah, you don't get any candy and you'll like it. That whole mentality. There's some people that Yeah, it's just like in in our family always say there's the good Irish and the bad Irish. You can either be like the fun, drinky Irish with your arm around people, like telling a story and get in here, or you can be like those the crazy weird ones that are like secret drinkers and schizophrenic and all the crazy shit.
Don't be don't be the crazy, be the good I that's another one. Be the good Irish, not the crazy Irish. Speaking of Irish, are you watching Cargo?
I think I'm caught up. Yes, I think I'm now caught up. Can I say believe?
I'm kind of I know this is the whole point of Fargo, but I'm kind of over the gangster stuff. I just want to watch Jesse Buckley, the redheaded nurse, live your fucking life like that's all. I am fascinated by that character. I just want to watch that part of it with the neighbors.
Her angel of death life or she's just doing whatever she wants the way she true sucks.
And the way she fucked Jason Schwartzman. I was just like, like she and then when the name when she found her closet of I can't never mind shit spoiler spoilers. I just love it.
It's so good. Yeah yeah, the gangsters stuff.
I'm just like, how about you guys just get along and you can do crime together.
I know, I know, but it's uh, yeah, you're right because it's a variation on a theme, so it's always kind of the same thing. But you're right when she first I mean spoilers, but these ones are old. But it's like that first time she based snuffed out, you're just like, wait, what fuck? Like we were I thought we were getting set up to think she was Florence Nightingale. Totally totally, so genius.
And the way she's manipulates, like the hospital, the head of the hospital and the waish Oh, I love it. That's the only part of like, it's pretty it's pretty great. What else are you watching? Oh?
Yeah, I watched American Murder. Oh yeah, it's the Shannan Watts. Is that is it? Shenannan? Yeah, watch and their two daughters murder.
It is It's like that podcast Cold about that case in Utah where it's just there's no redeeming teeny tiny bit of anything. It's just horrendous.
It's just confounding, and you're watching it on a body cam, which you go, hey, hey, body cams would be the perfect idea if we didn't let the police control them, because you are there. But then my thing was I went through that and then I went, oh, I don't want to ever do that again. I don't want to sit there with the police as they begin investigating this man pretending to be upset because his wife is missing and you know he's guilty. It's it's such, it's you know what it is. It's like, Hey, everybody's on this true crime train in their own different compartment, in their own different way, and everybody gets what they get out of it. I get off there. I don't want to go that far, and I don't want to get that far any especially when the story is so unbelievably tragic and yeah, like you're saying, stark, he lied until that female cop was like, so you're comfortable letting the public believe that your wife killed your girl?
Yes?
And he is like like, like he tried he kept trying, and it was like, oh my god.
I'm monster monster and it doesn't and it's just impossible to wrap your fucking head around.
What about the part so tons of spoilers, guys, obviously, but what about.
The pols right, it's American murder, something about next door, family next door or something.
Yeah, family next door. But there was the part where the cop was in the neighbor's house and then the guy and the husband Lee's and then he's like he never acts like this, and that neighbor was onto it, and it's just like spilling it. The second that guy walked out, it was fascinating.
He knew, I mean, but it wasn't even like, yeah, he's not acting normal because his wife's missing. He was like, that's not there's something fishy going on. It was immediately.
Yeah he was on it was but but again, like you're saying, it's just knowing where it's going, and then it's just like this feels it's I would say this, you can still be a fan of true crime and all that stuff and dip out for a little while when reality is hard enough already. Yes, you know what I mean, check your check the things that are making you feel okay, because that one I afterwards, I was like, nope, not doing that now. I don't know.
I didn't like it. I've been watching Saxondale to get my brain out of that realm of.
You know, you know who I'm in love with on Saxondale as his assistant.
Oh my god, I'm the best character.
I love him. I want to spend personal time with him. He's so good the personality of a guy that stands next to the fucking Saxondale and listen to his bullsh and be like cool all right, Oh my god.
It's just such a beautifully nuanced shows. It's Steve Coogan, who like anything he does. Just watch everything he's ever done. He's the best. It's what isn't on BBC probably or I don't know what we're watching it on. I think we're do like maybe it's even Saxondale.
I bet you that's a brit boxer, an acorn or some kind of specialty.
It's saying I want you got a search for but it's just like you got to care, absurd and lovely and everything.
Also his neighbor. This is if you if you are like me in a what's it called the British britih.
File uh angle file. Jesus, that's the brit of philes that you love, Britta filters and fresh Oh my.
God, I do my water taste clean. I'm such a Briti file obviously, I'm I'm a huge one. Since I don't know the name of it, so clearly I'm number one, the number one stan.
When the hipsters don't call themselves hipsters, you know what I mean?
Yeah, I'm so real. I'm just the realist. Anyhow, Saxondale's across the street neighbor is this British actor named Darren Boyd. Who if you He is in every hilarious like those kinds of TV shows. He's the tall, blonde, kind of dorky guy that's constantly just yes that he's constantly basically being bullied by Saxondale. Oh, he's so funny.
Yes, who's like in charge of the neighborhood watch and.
Trying to like check on stuff and then it would be a cool guy. Yeah, it's so good.
Yeah, that's such that's been helping us.
It has a couple of seasons too, right, yeah, total or seasons totally seasons when we.
Watched that, and after like the Vow or Fargo, we put on Saxondale for like a palate cleanser.
Yeah, saxon Dale's hilarious, good one I have uh oh I also, so wait, did you just say the vow? Yeah? I don't. I dipped out of the vow. It's really slow.
It's slow, and it's kind of draws on but it's but the but the stuff in it is still interesting, so I've stuck with it. Okay, It's just a little like one of those come on like you could have done this in half as many episodes, but yeah, ever make your money.
I think I had to. Uh I. It started to feel like an acting class to me. It started to feel like when I used to have to take an acting class and I would just kind of sit in the back and just be like everybody seemed everybody was like kind of just kind of overtly sexual and also on the virginiers and like perfectly and and like so so volunteering first, Like everyone was volunteering first and trying to act like a you know, they were walking through honey or whatever the exercise was, and I was just always in the back, like what am I doing, like why do I even like this? So it has that tension of like those types of people that really need something that was them.
They're like, they're thespians. They're not actors, Karen, They're thespians.
They're artists, is what.
They're artists and they can cry on command. There's some there's some footage of the chick who's like, because she was in fucking Battlestar Galactica or whatever the facts Smallsville.
Or whatever, she's oh yeah, yea alson Mac.
Yeah, it's she seems insufferable in sufferable.
Yeah, it's there. You know what it was? That was the It was the scene between her and Keith Nary when she first got taken to volleyball, and she was so hardcore flirting with him in a way I want I kiss you. Something about that makes me want to leave my skin. I cannot withstand watching people flirt like that. It was like flirt poorly.
It was like it was comfortable for everyone involved except Andre. Bizarre, so bizarre. What were they like? She was just like she knew's like she went in there knowing he That's the first time thing that she knew he was the leader, and she was like, I'm gonna fucking this is gonna be my thing, and I'm going to this guy fall in love with me. And here's how it's fucking done. And I'm an actress. I hold my jacket exactly, hold my jacket.
Well, I go make this.
I'm coming fall in love with me.
I'm going to flirt with someone who has the sexuality of an old, raggedy anvy doll.
You know what I love is kneepads and four a M volleyball.
What'sapp here?
It is?
And a very very high lilting voice. Oh that's what I'm looking for. Ah, he's so gross. Also honestly, because you know they've filmed everything. I just and maybe it's just like because they're trying to tell this other story, but would it kill them just to explain what the point of any of those groups were, right, Like what you actually got? What the you know, here's the class we took, it's this, it said this, we were working on ems to get us here. I do not understand how they glued this fucking ship together. It doesn't make.
Sense because they keep saying like to use for our job and to get in our life. But it doesn't say like they have other jobs or other lives. They're just sitting. And then there's like not that many people there either, So it's like wouldn't you look around at this thing that's life changing supposedly and be like, well, why are there only eleven people here? Though?
Yeah, and it's like the same eleven. It's like like me going to a small Catholic school for junior high in high school, we were just like these people again, Yeah, I can't do it anymore. Fuck, it's it's very Yeah, you're right. A lot of those people were like, I took the class. Now I'm the teacher. It's like that doesn't that doesn't right there? If it's that accessible that now you're the teacher, how brilliant and genius can this program be? Right you're immediately teaching it.
I want I want there to be decades of work before someone can become a teacher of whatever the fuck I'm learning?
Hell yeah, you. In my world, you would have to climb Mount Killiman Jarrow. You would have to like it would be scenes from The Golden Child. You'd have to go into a cave and jump from pole to pole and then drink the water make the fire go out.
That I sat through two class and wrote down my fucking schedule every day and asked if I was allowed to eat certain foods Master, Master, No, fucking Vanguard, I refuse.
Also, I think it's this if I, if it were up to me to be like right now, in sixth grade, we're going to start this a program where we just start telling kids how to avoid getting sucked into cults, just a general like a step by step, almost like a Dare class that you would put in. But now we're just doing it for colts because it seems to be coming up a lot now. So when you have to give people evidence proof, what's it called collateral? Collateral for anything? Get out?
It's just before the collateral.
Yeah, titpicks get out.
I mean give me store them out if you want, but don't don't give them out as collateral.
No, don't get involved with anything that has the word collateral, including the Tom Cruise movie. Don't. I'm saying, stay away. And then if dieting has something to do with your spiritual program, it doesn't.
Guys, it doesn't. Oh oh my god, speaking of cults, I have a book that I'm listening to that I fucking love that I want to tell you about. So it's it's by this it's a memoir and it's by this guy named Michel Jolette j O L. L. Each.
Oh yeah, I follow him on Twitter. Yeah.
So he's the he's the singer of the Airborne Toxic Event and he wrote a memoir and you're like, okay, beautiful man who's in a band, who's super.
Cool, what's your fucking memoir?
And then I started listening to it and it starts as him as a kid, like five years old, and it starts as his mother uh sneaks him out of the cult that they're in, and then.
Goes from there. Wait, now, was he in a different one or was he in Sinanon? Yes, he was in Sinana.
Huh.
Yes, that's the one that is out in It's in snowm Accounting. That's right out near where I grew up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I.
Want to listen to that screen and it's just and then it goes from there and their lives and the mom and how she kind of still has that mentality and it's such a fucking good book and the and he reads it obviously in the audiobook.
I love it. It's great.
It adds say the title it's called Oh I didn't even say the fucking title, did I?
It's called Hollywood Park. Hollywood Park by Michel Jolt. Yeah, it's great, it's great. It's all eight very eighties too. It's just so good. That sounds amazing.
Yeah, oh I love that.
Love a cult story, sure, love a true story, love a memoir, uh huh.
And then yeah, it's great. Lead us out of a cult totally. And how did you get like you had a fucked up childhood? How did you get so successful? You know?
Like people like to hear that as well. Yeah, because that's the key. Yeah, fucked up, being fucked up is the key to getting somewhere.
Hey want to be an interesting person? Have a really fucked up child?
Do you want to have ambition burn inside you in a way that you cannot explain? And oh, I have kind of a fucked up run and run and run from yourself and constantly try to achieve that's right, do it? Yes, that's the fuel. You're not fucked up, you're ready to go.
Right or work against yourselves for so many years by pouring the drugs and alcohol on top of it, because you just are too overwhelmed by that creativity and then suddenly one day you figure it all fucking out and you become the successful person whatever that's right to you, that's right.
But before that happens, you have to stew in your own juices.
That's right.
Sometimes that's right, and really, oh really feel fucked up.
And they smell those juices.
Oh, I can smell it from here, that's right. So I have been listening to my go to these days is and I've already plugged this podcast sex you know unique podcast. It's uh Laura, I always am afraid I'm saying her last name on Shane Halls, I believe and my friend carry O'Donnell. They just started covering their recapping season one of Rock of Love, Brett Michael's dating show on.
VHDY started that at the very beginning of Quarantine.
Yeah show, Holy shit it so yeah, they're so the two of them talking about it is so hilarious. It's again my favorite when I don't have to actually suffer through reality TV, but I can hear about it. It's my favorite.
We literally tried ten minutes in the beginning, let's try this again, and couldn't watch it. It's just couldn't be so uncomfortable.
But I'd listen to that, Harry. People do impressions of the people and the things that they said. It's a totally different, totally different things. So yeah, if you like reality TV or like recap shows or whatever, those guys and also I I belong to their patreons, so I get bonus episodes and just the stuff they talk about in between, you know, just processing the life that we're going through right now. It's very helpful to me. I listened to them a lot in the morning. It's like, you know, they're my podcast funds.
Sure, yeah, wait, you have other podcast runds besides me.
They're my They're the ones that they don't know. I'm their podcast run you're my literal right, got it.
Shall do some exactly right catch up. Let's do it, guys. We have a big announcement in a minute.
But first, oh yeah, good one. Tease it up.
But first we want to tell you that we have some merch going on right now, so that the design this is terrible keep Going was so awesome when you guys loved it so much that we put out tank tops. They're on the website now. And then we also have mugs, so it says this is terrible keep going, which is like so perfect for these days.
It's timely, huh and yet eternal. I think you buy this shirt and it pays off in the meantime, and then of course the long run is entirely covered. I don't know if you can say that about just any shirt, or really any shirt at all, but this one. That's true.
That's true. Yeah, maybe a nice Henley in the network.
Moving over to network news, this podcast Will Kill You just released their season finale, season three finale on Tuesday, and they're talking all about birth control, very timely and topical.
Yeah, so that sounds fucking awesome. I want to Yeah, let those ladies walk you through some birth control info. Yeah. And then also the fall line is they interviewed uh Monica Cason from CUE Missing Person Center about their missing persons search efforts. So that's just a really interesting thing for people who are into true crime and into you know, missing person person cases. I think you'll like that.
Yeah, that's great.
Okay, big announcement.
It's big announcement time now, and we have been talking about waiting for this announcement for so long that it's just surreal that it's finally here.
I can't, I'm it's so it's a relief that it's finally here. It feels so good.
You guys.
We are about to announce two new podcasts that are coming to exactly write this.
First one is a podcast that's going to be hosted by our friends Millie to Jericho and Danielle Henderson. Too hilarious and very talented and very brilliant ladies. Millie is the programmer on Turner Classic Movies and she has been for the past like I think seventeen years. Danielle Henderson is a TV writer. She's hosted a bunch of stuff. You also might know her because she invented the feminist Ryan Gosling meme that is one of the most genious things I've ever seen, so you might know her from that as well. The two of them have gotten together, Millie and Danielle, and they have made a podcast called I Saw What You Did, and it is a it's a move. It's basically a movie podcast where the two of them, every week they're going they basically quote unquote program double feature for you. They pick two movies. It's always a theme, so it'll be like neighborhood creeps or Great seventies apartments, or hysterical women who have every right to be hysterical. And basically the two of them watch the movie and break it down and talk about it, Milly being kind of the film expert and Danielle being a film fan and just a person that likes to watch movies. So it's really hilarious. You know, they're women of color. It's just a it's just a really cool new way, a new discussion of watching movies. And we're super, super excited to be hosting it.
I think it's going to be groundbreaking in some ways, you know. And it premieres on November tenth, so keep an eye out for it, Okay. And then the second podcast that we're going to announce today is called Tenfold More Wicked. We're so freaking excited about this, Oh my god. It's hosted by author and journalist Kate Winkler Dawson. So each season, Kate's gonna blend her incredible storytelling skills and her investigative journalism skills to present a new gruesome or spooky crime from the past, like pre nineteen thirties, which is such a cool time period. Later seasons are going to touch on how crimes led to the insanity defense in criminal trials, or highlight White Body, why cadavers are so important in med school, and like how that happened.
So it's going to be fricking awesome, obviously.
You know, the fact that she's both an investigative journalist and a storyteller is just going to make for an incredible podcast.
Yeah, if you have read any of her books, Kate Dawson, she is an unbelievable crime historian and she's written I've read all of her books just from knowing her, from working yeah with her, and it's she's such a talented storyteller. In her doing a podcast, I mean it is, she does a maze work.
And so that comes out tenfold more wicked. On November twenty third, and I saw what you did on November tenth, Oh my god, we had two new podcasts.
On the next new podcasts. You guys were so stoked. We're a real boy now and there's more to come. There's more to come on this slate, but those are the first two of a new bunch of new shows. So finally, you know, I know they've waited so long.
Yeah, you thought we were lying to you. We weren't lying to you.
We were I don't fucking lie, not about that, Not about that? Oh sure, true?
Right? Anything else you want to touch upon or feel or fondle upon.
I mean not really, because there hasn't been that much going on except for it feels like there's a bunch going on. So there's a strange malaise, like a laziness that it is going hand in hand with procrastination, or I just never feel like doing anything.
Nope, never ever, Why would you, it's it's nothing happens.
Yeah, it's rough.
Yeah.
Stay low. Here's my uh my advice if anyone wants it, stay low to the ground and cool to the touch. Stay out of direct sunlight, you know, like try to keep all the shade shut. Try to get pale, because you might as well, yeah, or at least say it's okay that I'm doing it.
Oh yeah, okay, you might be like a cat vampire. Low to the ground.
Yeah dark. I'm just saying. Last night for dinner, I did have a giant pretzel, and there's no world where I should be ordering a giant pretzel and eating it.
It's no, it's fighting at a giant pretzel. But did you have anything else? Is the important thing. If you I did have some salad, then you're fine. Okay, it doesn't matter. If you only had a giant pretzel, that would be wright.
I'm saying. This pretzel could have feted giant, the jolly green Giant. It was so jiking out. Yeah, but we're working on it day by day.
That's right, we are. What else can we do. There's really no choice in the matter that you have. We don't have choice. No. Yeah, therapy, that's so important.
Do that too, Do that. That's good, that's important.
My mom texts me I love you for the first time and it's first time she said it in months and months. Wow, that's a positive thing.
That's very good.
Oh yeah, well, no, I'm just thinking, you know, you know what I think it was go ahead, Sorry.
Well no, no, I'm just thinking with this swirl of how psychotic politics are getting. Yeah, I think there's a lot of people who if they could just get like touch a buzzer and just be out, free and clear, they would be oh, you know what they're in so far? That's right.
That's so funny that you equated it with that, because I did too. I saw that she wrote I love you and miss you because we're not really speaking. I thought, oh man, I bet. I thought to myself, how on earth did she, in her Jewish mind make proud boys stand back and stand by? Okay?
Yes?
And then my mind, I'm like, she couldn't. I love you and miss you is an opening of a door.
Yes.
I realized this week that I had a heavy hitter. And once I got to page nine on my.
Story and had more to.
Talk about, I was like, listen, Karen, I'll go this week if you want, And you.
Got to see how I was like, Dick is.
And I need a week to learn how to roller skate.
So next week, that's right. You can really seize your time as you will not do as I did not do. Having nine pages in a story, it just brought me so back to tour, like I think I'm having a thing now where like now the memories of touring are so sweet and golden and wonderful, and every one I think of is like, remember that fucking hotel in Toronto that was I think Japanese beamed that it was unbelievable hotel.
The one I just perfect the one I missed our fucking call time in because I was saying, yeah, yes, it.
Was gorgeous, right, it was unbelievable. But they're typing up my story and going to do the insert page number and then being like nine like where we would say to each other and you had said to me before, like can can you not do like the a story that long? Where I'm like, I know, I'm sorry, and you tried to cut it down, but like what do you take out? Yeah, because you're like, I'm just trying to get the good story going. But it happens because then you know, then I do stuff like show you old men with tomato plants and stuff like that, which I'm like, don't take that out.
Take something else out.
Take out the horrible facts of humanity and what people do to each other.
Oh man with opinions. So this has become eleven pages with sixteen font perfect in Georgia font of course, because that's my thing.
Oh ja hey.
So, because this is an important story and maybe people haven't heard about it because it takes place in Australia. So I've been following this case for a couple of years now because it's been a cold case, which you know, I'm obsessed with. It's been going on for over twenty years and I wanted to wait until there was a resolution, which a couple of years ago something happened, and this last month in September, finally there's kind of been a resolution. Oh wow, so it's no longer a cold case. So it's like it's Perth's So it takes place in Perth in Australia. It's kind of like their Golden State Killer or BTK, where it just completely changed the area and how people live their lives and you know, raised their children. It just it shook everyone up.
We got yelled at by a lot of people when we were on tour in Australia for not going to.
Perth one hundred percent.
There are people who drove from Perth. They were mad where they were like, look, it's a stop. You're supposed to go to Burro. You can't. You can't drive to Perth. I don't, I don't know. Yeah, let me.
I'll tell you all about it. This is the Claremont serial killer. Oh wow, Oh yes, okay, amazing, okay, yes. You don't know how many times I said to Jay Please don't let Careen do the Claremont Sarah Killer. I've been working on it. I've been like, I had docs and shit, and I was like, don't let her do it, it's mine.
Text him once a month every month on the.
First suggesting, fine, it's hers, but don't fucking suggest it to her, please, he promised me. Finally got to do it. I got information from WA Today dot com. There's an article by Heather McNeil, Noosa News by Angie Raphael, News dot com dot Au by Candice Sutton. There's a Claremont The Trial podcast or a whole Claremont series podcasts. You can listen to ABC Australia Andrea Mays and seven News in Australia. An article by Duncan McNabb. And there's the there's so many great journalists that have been following this for you know, decades, and so there's a lot to read about it. So let me tell you about Claremont. Perth is the capital of Western Australia and it has a population of almost two million people. It's so it is the most isolated city in.
The world, is it really?
Yeah?
Which is why I still go there, me saying and me saying driving they would have had to have flown.
They would have they would have driven through the Australian outback like fucking kangaroos and shit and fucking brushland, like I don't.
Know, red dirt and kangaroos. Bitch, are you ready? Sure they hate me for saying that.
But it's the most it's just that one part. Yeah, it's teeny tiny. It takes five hours to fly there. It's the most isolated city in the world. It's got the Indian Ocean on one side and the Australian Outback on the other. It's really cool if you zoom, if you look at it on a map and like start zooming out, it's it's like here's It's like if Los Angeles was here. It's basically Los Angeles to Houston to get to Adelaide. So the next big city is Adelaide and it's it's a thirty hour drive. Okay, So that's how isolated it is.
Can I just say, what if you lived in Wait, what what if you lived in Perth? This is this might be what I do when I retire, because you know, I really genuinely, really loved Australia in a very wrote spiritual way.
Yeah, I wrote it's a beautiful fucking city, and I wrote there's a chance I might move there on November fourth.
As a matter of fact, definitely they take us. I hope they take us because Canada won't take us anymore. Someone speak to the mayor of Perth and please, we're really fun at parties. I was just thinking it would be fun to move to a house that's right on the edge of the outback, so you're the place that the first place that the man dying if there's crawls too out of the outback, if he does make it at all, he's knocking on your door first, just to be there for the stories.
That's a good one. So La to Houston. Basically, It's sister cities are Houston as a matter of fact, and San Diego. So you can imagine it's a beautiful place. Like some of the most expensive houses in Australia are in Perth. I think it's kind of like a secret famous person place to go, because Australians don't give a shit that you're They're like, oh, there's a famous person who cares like that's kind of where they go to just live their lives.
You know what they do Australians. They'll even if you're a famous person, they'll tell you to throw shrimp on the barbie. That's to your face. That's what They don't give a shit. They're very casual people. There's a nation so it's super isolated and Claremont is a suburb of Perth.
It's located on the north bank of the Swan River. It's really charming and upscale. The main district of Claremont is known as an affluent local hub, so it has a bunch of cute boutiques like think of Beverly Hills boutiques and restaurants and pubs and bars and it's like the young night life scene. But it's you know, upscale, so it's kind of a lovely little place. It's safe, it's a close knit community. Australian reporter Alison Fann describes it as the heart of the Gold Triangle of Western suburbs. Basically it's the kind of place where you don't expect anything bad to happen. Of course, that is until the mid nineties, within a span of fifteen months, when three young women mysteriously disappear right off the street. So eighteen year old Sarah Spears is the first to disappear, so she had moved to Perth after finishing high school nearby. She goes to secretarial school. She gets a job as a receptionist. Like all of these stories go, she's lovely, she makes friends easily, she's close with her family, she's responsible, she's very comfortable in her new city life. She lives with her sister and her dad describes her as the type of person who met everyone with a glow, and friends said she was just filled with laughter. On the night of January twenty seventh, nineteen ninety six, she's out with her friends visiting the clubs and she leaves club they they view at the center of Claremont at around two am by herself. At two o six am, she calls a taxi from the public phone booth, and there's a recording of her calling the taxi and she's seen waiting alone by three eyewitnesses who also mentioned seeing an unidentified car stopping where she's waiting, and then when the taxi arrives at two nine am, she's gone. She's not there. So by the next day her disappearance are like automatically alarms friends and family who knows she's responsible and reliable wouldn't just take off. So even though you know there was like usually a waiting period for missing people to be taken seriously, her friends and family kind of made it happen because they were so freaked out. So there's a massive, massive public attention and immediately her friends hand out missing posters all over Claremont and it becomes a major investigation because of her family and friends. They pass out twenty thousand flyers. There's two thousand posters all over Perth. Fifty buses have her picture on them, a missing person's flyer, Like you couldn't go anywhere and not see her face. So people knew about it immediately. A task force is set up within forty eight hours to look into her case, but there's really no evidence, like no one saw her disappear, and so the trail goes cold. So that was in January. So then we get to June. June sixth, nineteen ninety six, twenty three year old Jane Rimmer is with friends for a night out and Claremont in the same area. She's described as bubbly and funny, she's really genuine and she's really easy to get along with. All the pictures of these women are just you'd be friends with all of them. You know. She is a living nanny and the two young children adore her. She's friends with the mother even though there's a big age difference. She's just a really easy to get along with person. And in fact, the mother had spoken to her. They talked on the phone for like four hours a couple days before and even discussed the disappearance of Sarah Spears. So Jane's friends tell the police that they had hit a couple different night spots, including Club Bayview, where Sarah had last hung out, and there's a long line at one of the clubs. So Jane's friends decide to take a taxi home, but Jane wants to stay behind. CCTV had been installed in Claremont after Sarah had disappeared, and it actually caught footage of Jane standing outside this club called The Continental at twelve o four am. So it's like busy, there's people hanging out outside and smoking and like lively, it's not like it's a desolate area. She seems like she's waiting for someone, like maybe a taxi. She's leaning on a pole, she's laughing. The camera catches her talking to an unknown man. She's just laughing with him. It pans away, and when it pans back, she's fucking gone. Fifty five days later and actually sorry that CCTV footage isn't released until two thousand and eight. What because they wanted to keep I don't know, they wanted to keep things under wraps. They sent it to NASA to try to get more foot more information, and they couldn't and they just kept it under wraps, which is weird. So fifty five days later is on August third, a family's out for the day in the bushland, a wellard about twenty five miles south of Claremont Oliveay. So the mother she's looking at these what are called death lilies. She sees the biggest one she's ever seen, so she kind of walks through the brush to look at it, and she feels something brushing the back of her leg. This feels like fate in a weird, creepy way. She turns to see what was she was feeling, and she sees a tiny foot sticking out of some brush, and uh, it is she had found the naked body of Jane hidden under some brush. WHOA yeah, yeah, what are the odds? That's crazy, It's just creepy. It's sad. Her remains were too decomposed to confirm a cause of death, but an autopsy does show that she had a prominent injury on her neck that's consistent with a knife wound. So it's reported to the media that a pot okay. So, then the same day, on a road less than a mile from where the hoary Jane's body was found, they the investigators find a pocket knife and it had a Telecom logo on it. So Telecom, which I'm gonna call it, turns into this company called tel Stress. I'm gonna call it that from now on. So Telstra is Australia's largest telecommunications company. Basically like AT and t orb her eyes and like phone lines, Internet, they do all that shit. So the knife was issued as a standard equipment to Telstra workers. What the fuck is it doing out in the middle of nowhere? So several witnesses who live in the area tell de Textas detectives they heard a woman screaming and shouting the night Jane went missing. I know, like what we call it? What One man says he heard a woman screaming quote, leave me alone, let me out of here, and sees a car drive away in the direction of the spot where Jane's body was found. Another couple closer to the crime scene, remember blood curdling cries that stopped mid scream. Oh, guys, what the fuck I mean? Do you call the police at that moment? They didn't call it in No, I don't think so it was discovered after the Yeah, so you don't want to be an alarmist, but those sound like reasons to call the police.
Mine is just to check it out, right, right, Yeah, just to make sure you're right in not freaking out exactly.
Then it turns out on the night that Sarah Spears had gone missing, witnesses had also heard blood curdling screams less than five miles away in the Mossman Park area between two thirty am and three am, which were quote consistent with a female in distress. But remember, Sarah hadn't been found, her body hasn't been found, but it was in that area. So one of the witnesses who heard the screams said that when they looked in the direction of the screams, they saw a white or cream colored car that was parked on the wrong side of the street and the screams were heard only about twenty minutes after Sarah was last spotted outside the club, seemingly waiting for a taxi. So after Jane Rimmer's body is found, Western Australian Police launched what they call the Macro Task Force to investigate the disappearance of both Jane and Sarah. And there's massive publicity in this city where women are normally relatively safe. And then I was thinking about, like, well, why you know, don't leave a bar alone and that sort of thing, But it seems like it was a bustling area that they were in, and they I've walked home a million fucking times, and like, yeah, you.
Think about walking home from bars in like Silver Lake is probably more dangerous than walking home from a bar in this area.
Right, And it's like, it's my I'm familiar, this is my neighborhood. Why would I feel unsafe in my neighborhood? You don't even consider And.
There's people that's a bummer. The thing that is very sinister and upsetting to me is people being around. People disappearing when there's the yep of people around. Is very scary. Yeah, definitely, and very like ooh, you know, because that means some they were targeted.
They were targeted and the person who took them has no fear too.
Yeah, And then I was thinking and a plan.
Yeah, when I'm drinking, I kind of like get giddy and I'm like, I'm just going to walk home and listen to music, and I feel I'm happier, and so I'm just like I'm just going to walk, you know, It's just such a normal thing to do. Then nine months later, in the early morning hours of March fifteenth, nineteen ninety seven, see Sara Glennon, a twenty seven year old from Mossman Park, also disappeared from the Claremont area. Siara was a lawyer and spoke fluent Japanese so very smart. She had come home to Perth after a year of backpacking overseas. She came back to be a bridesmaid in her sister's wedding that was happening in a week, and to return to her job at a law firm. Like Sarah and Jane, she's out with friends and heading to the Continental nightclub when she decides to make her way home. She kind of hadn't wanted to go out that night. She did anyway, so she leaves her friends early. So there's three men at a bus stop. They see Ciara walking south along Sterling Highway at around twelve thirty am. And I don't think this is like a desolate highway. I feel like it's almost like Wilsherp Boulevard, where it's just like a.
Main street, you know.
So they see her interacting with someone in a light colored vehicle that had stopped for her, and then she disappeared. And so those witnesses they become known as the Burger Boys.
It's these three dudes.
Troy Bond, Frank McElroy, and Brandon Gray. They're sitting together a bus stop eating burgers. And they had noticed a newer model Holden Commodore station wagon which looks like an eighties Volvo or Honda station wagon type of thing. They see it pull up alongside a woman, but they didn't see her. They see her talking to the driver through the window, but they didn't continue to watch to see if she got in, although another witness says he did see her get in the car, then she disappears. Siara is described as a strong in spirit and courageous, and so her father tells reporters that his daughter's a fighter and she's going to fight whoever took her. But sadly, nineteen days later, on April third, her semi clothed body is found by a bushwalker who's out looking for marijuana and having been she had been discarded about twenty five miles north of Claremont, and the cause of death is noted as being consistent with a neck injury. So we later find out that it looks like you know, knife wounds to.
The next same amo.
Yeah, and they're also placed in the exact same way, except mirror images with like their arm up, and you know, during the autop seats discovered that Ciarra had indeed fought back. In fact, she had fought her killer so hard that one of her thumbnails is partially torn off and she has her attackers DNA under her fingernails. Nice, yes, but of course it's too early, you know, it's ninety seven. There's no real testing on DNA at that point. So after the disappearance of Jane Rimmer, the Western Australian Police had set up the Macro Task Force and to look into the two similar cases. They kind of knew automatically that they're all related. When cr disappears as well, police confirm that they're searching for a serial killer and the Western Australian government offers a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars reward, which is the largest ever offered in the state at the time. Wow. They say the serial killer has a proverb victim profile, young woman between eighteen and twenty seven, with small build, fair complexion, intoxicated and alone. And it does seem that they and I don't know if all of them, but some witnesses said that they did seem intoxicated, which is you know, it's just like they're so targeted at that point, it's so awful.
Yeah.
Yeah, So this case becomes fucking huge. It grabs a ton of public attention. It's basically like Ted Bundy level attention after the Florida Cayomega murders. You know, the whole town is fucking terrified or the BTK like basically that someone among us, in our small community is committing these horrendous acts and people are terrified. So Detective Inspector Paul Ferguson leads the inquiry and he has more than one hundred investigators on the case. There are several leads, but the strongest is the CCTV footage of Jane and the unidentified man. It's sent to NASA, you know, there's nothing they can't enhance it in any way, and it's released in two thousand and eight because police feared that releasing it would have hindered the investigation. But it's like, maybe someone will recognize the way that person is standing or walking, you know, it's just who you never fucking know.
Yeah, it makes me think though, of those it's when it happens in a place where it never happens, when it happens in a place where people always say it could never happen here, the investigation unless they call people in right away, which people are learning to do now. But oftentimes it's that decision making.
Yeah, they've been criticized a lot about the investigation, and it's partly because they kept so much secret, you know, and they kept so much to themselves that people didn't think they were actually doing anything. And in some cases, you know, maybe they weren't following through as well as they should have, and maybe the public's help could have done something. But in others. It's just you know, they were keeping everything really under wraps. The man in the video is never identified, no evidence is found to link him, and police also use a woman to reenact Tiara Glennon's night, so they basically dressed her and what she was wearing exactly. A woman who looks like her has her walk the same path and go to the same bars, but nothing pans out. The initial focus of the investigation centers on the unidentified vehicles seen at the two locations, and also so basically, I think what we were all thinking is taxi drivers. It's got to be some yes taxi drivers, some fake taxi you know.
I think everyone independent, some kind of independent cab thing of like it's just me and my gut exactly.
It's weird sign yeah, totally, which I've fucking gotten in those before. Like I've gotten in one.
Of those those, Like every time I'm at JFK in New York, you just do it. Who cares, It's New York. There's a million of them. You wave, you're all out in the middle.
Of the street, and you get in whatever fucking car stops for you.
You know, Yeah, you just get in. You just want to get inside to get up the street.
That's right, you know, they're ten minutes away from home. They're intoxicated. Everyone gets in a taxi. It's normal, it's safe, and it's a thing to do is to get in a tax It's.
It's the smart it's the smart choice to make. Also, it's that idea of somebody sitting in in a car with some kind of like a dispatch radio or some kind of a it's a spying on thing where if they hear that it got the call goes out, they go. But that's just like this could this could also be me listening to other podcasts about this, But that's my that's what it makes. It leads me to think.
About that's a really interesting one.
Wow, like someone who got fired for they couldn't be a cab driver anymore, right because they attacked some other young woman.
You are another far Oh you're you're parallel Okay if you're not, Yeah, but it's the mayor. Fuck Karen, why'd you ruin this for me? Okay? So taxi drivers of course, So thousands of taxi drivers licensed in Western Australia are finger printed and DNA tested, which was really expensive at the time. So they actually the investigators were criticized for that as well. They find seventy eight drivers with significant criminal histories and because of this, it doesn't lead them to the killer, but standards for eligibility for taxi drivers are raised and good, yeah, great, and these seventy eight drivers are de licensed and their stricter standards apply to verify that decommissioned cap taxis are properly stripped of official insignia and equipment.
Right, Sorry, can I just say this?
Yeah?
What we should be saying though about and whoever is in charge does this and might not be the police, but the fact that the one young woman went missing and they put up CCTV cameras the next day, that is how things should work. Definitely, you know what I mean. If something happens and while they're doing all this other stuff, it's like, now, what would have been different to make this better and not so horrible cameras and then just getting it done. Yeah, that's impressive. But they did that that quickly, and that they then did this investigation like found you know, all the while they were like, yeah, at least they had something going on that was positive.
And getting the DNA invented even though it's expensive and it's not normal at the time, they still did it so they had it on hand in case in the future something was able to match it, you know, So though the murders had stopped at this point. Over the years, the Macro Task Force is met with both praise and criticism for the handling of the case. A lot of information is suppressed from the public, so one of the controversial tactics that Macro used was sending questionneers to over one hundred and ten persons of interests that included questions like are you the killer? So yeah really? They also relied heavily on international experts. They had a light detector machine imported from another country. And this might be the most controversial of them all. One task force officer attempted to offer Sorry, one task force officer accepted an offer from convicted serial killer David Bernie to insist in the investigation. So, David Bernie, he's from Perth as well.
I did think I did him? You did it?
Yeah, I did it. In episode ninety four, it's the Moorhouse murders. Remember there was that Hounds of Love movie that I talked about that had like portrayed it that was so fucking creepy, and it was him and his wife kidnapping women and then bearing them. Yeah, so that one was fucking dark. And so they went to this monster in the same way. Remember when Ted Bundy was like offering to help them solve shit and you're like, sit down, motherfucker.
Well yeah, and what can they answer?
What can they what can he offer to help?
You know, thoughts, thoughts and feelings. I don't know, they have nothing to do in jail. But unless they know the person or they know the area, right, they know that that would be a different thing. But was this guy just like, here's my theories.
Yeah, here's how this person probably works, here's what his mind is, like, here's what kind of person he is, here's what you know. But which, if they already have a profile of this person, then they don't really need that guy. They have actually professional people doing it, not a fucking serial killer.
Yeah it's not. This doesn't sound of the Lambs, And you're not doctor Hannibal Lecter that actually was an expert in this before he right, and knew some people the killer too, right, Yeah, yeah, okay, so the point, yes, right, that's right, he was a patient.
Yeah, he was. He was the boyfriend of a patient.
That's right. How dare you school?
Now?
I'm I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. Oh well you're right, No, you're What.
Was the patient's name? They went in his garage and it.
Was so, I know, not Bob? Was it Bob? He gave him the fake name Bob.
Yes, that's the Hannibal. No, Bob was the name of the fake name of the patient. Buffalo Bill was the boyfriend. Yeah, so that's Bob because he gave a fake name, and then the boyfriend's name. Who's the patient?
Anything for us characters that listed on Wikipedia? I have to well, that's bullshit. Hold on a second, because he says it. He says it in the scene before she goes to yourself yourself storage, look inside yourself storage.
Let me take a bunch of that. ACCU think so not all of it? Not all of it classic. Speaking of profile, due to the nature of the killings, experts suggest that the Claremont killer was probably a single white male twenty five to thirty five, lived in the area, appeared trustworthy, organized, social, and probably well educated. Detective Dan Detective Dan cakwarn replaces Ferguson as the case leader and finds the first suspect in the killings, a man named Lance Williams. So Lance Williams is a forty one year old public servant. He lives with his parents at Cottislow, which is close to the hotel where both Spears and Rimmer had spent some of the their evening on the night they disappeared. But it seems like his biggest fault is that he seems to become obsessed with the case, you know, which is always a red fucking flag. He even occasionally drives around Claremont late at night to conduct his own mini investigation into the murders, he says, And he even offers women rides home, he says, because he's worried about them. So one time he's circles the area more than thirty times, and of course this raises red flags for the investigators, and they have a young female officer dress up for the night for a night out and act as bait, and he does offer the undercover officer a lift and he's immediately arrested. So on February fifth, nineteen ninety eight, he's questioned for like twelve to seventeen hours, it seems, and then released, and he remains the chief suspect for the most of the next decade and is placed under intense scrutiny with police. They openly follow him and to and from work every day for years. His family home is raided a few times. Listening devices are installed in his office, one of one one which once crashed through the ceiling onto his desk.
Because they were the cops are spying on him, trying to find out if he was the.
Guy, and so in his office they think he's going to admit to it somehow, and so they put a recording device in there and it fucking was too healthy, fell through the ceiling onto his desk.
Oh my god.
He maintains his innocent there's his innocence during the six different interviews he has with police, but the public finds out his identity, so they also fucking go after him as well. Of course, the thing is he wasn't lying. He was obsessed with the case and he did want to make sure women got home safe. He's finally declared no longer a person of interest in two thousand and nine. Oh wow, he didn't fucking do it, And detective he's a weirdo, but he didn't do it, Detective Caphorn.
We're all weirdos like that, But I think, yeah, but I think the difference, that difference of and it almost feels like there's a there's a naivete to it of going and offering people rides home puts you squarely in an area you should not be in if you're yeah, a dude.
Well, they were right to suspect him and interview him and keep an eye and keep him in as a suspect if they couldn't rule him out. But Detective Capborn is criticized for having tunnel vision when it came to him as a suspect and just focusing on him. And Lance William dies in twenty eighteen of cancer at sixty one years old. So all right, Well, it turns out that the reason Lance was no longer a person of interest in two thousand and nine is because that year forensic scientists are finally able to properly test the DNA that have been found under Sierra Glennon's fingernails, and they recover an unknown male's DNA profile. And I mean, they went through so much that I don't get into about how they were able to extract DNA, and it's these incredible scientists who painstakingly, like fucking made sure that they they really wanted to solve this case. So when they compared that DNA to the DNA of other sexual assault cases in the area, they matched an another unknown males DNA from an unsolved abduction and rape that had occurred in nineteen ninety five. It was a year before the string of murders began. So in that case, a seventeen year old girl is walking home after a night out in the same Claremont venue, from the same Claremont venue where Sarah Spears would later leave a year later, and she had been grabbed from behind, bound and gagged, and then put into a van and she was driven to a cemetery. She's fucking dragged through the dark. She's raped twice, this brutal rape. The whole time she's like thinking she's going to die. She purposely doesn't look at him in the face, thinking maybe that'll give her a chance to live if she doesn't see his face. And amazingly he leaves her alive, but obviously very fucking wounded, and it's so awful, So she survives the assault she goes straight to a nearby hospital where her rapists DNA is recovered, and they're also able to find fibers from this case that also on Jane and Sierra, which are rare microscopic blue polyester fibers, as well as fibers that match what would have been in a Holden Commodore station wagon. Oh right, but again it.
Doesn't lead to a suspect.
So they have a way to match all these cases and like maybe they'll get more inform, you know, they have more information, but they still don't have a person that you know, it's all unknown male DNA, so it doesn't lead to a suspect, nor does the report by a security guard who saw a Telstra van leaving the area when the seventeen year old girl had been raped at around four am. Detectives do request a list of Telstra employees remember that knife that was found with the crime scene, who were assigned vans, but that doesn't lead them anywhere either. They check it and can't find anyone of interest. So years go by until investigators decide to go through old evidence boxes from other similar crimes in the nearby area and tests those for DNA, so that leads to an evidence box front that had just been hanging out from an unsolved nineteen eighty eight huntington Dale sexual assault case. So, in nineteen eighty eight, there's a series of prowler incidents in the huntington Dale area, which is about thirty minutes from Claremont, and they were dubbed the Huntington Prowler.
So there were reports of.
Women's intimates being stolen from clothes lines, as well as a peeping tom and someone trying to break into houses. So residents claim to have seen a figure wearing nineties women's nineties dressing gowns and on one occasion, a pair of women's underpants over his head. So he you know, it's kind of like Golden State Killer where he's just like.
He steals it and then he puts it on in some way.
Yeah, and seems like he wants people to see him in it.
Almost Oh like that's when he leaves, he runs out, and that's what he's got on his head.
Yeah wherever, Yeah, wowing like that. And so then in February of eight, nineteen eighty eight, an unidentified man breaks into the home into a home and attempts to sexually assault a sleeping eighteen year old girl, but she's able to fight him off, and that attacker runs off and leaves behind He had been wearing a silk kimono that seems like he had taken off the clothesline, and that's left behind, and that has a semen stain on it. So in that evidence box they find that it sits in the evidence box for twenty eight years. WHOA until finally they're able to test the DNA on it and it matches the other unknown male DNA from all those cases. But still they don't know who the Huntingdale prowler was, so they still just have a connection with all the cases, but no identity of a killer.
But man, so insane. This this net is widening of what this guy's been doing and where he's been doing it, and.
It's got to feel like you're so close. You're so close. You find one more case that matches and you're like, well, we got to find it this, you know, it's still it's got to be so frustrating. Yeah, So what finally ties it all together, or finally leads to what ties it all together isn't DNA but fingerprints. So during a separate Huntington prowl or break in. The attacker had left behind his fingerprints and pomp print on a sliding door, and those prints are finally run through the system when they're looking through old evidence boxes and a match is found. So it's found to this case where there is a known attacker, so it's In a recent interview with sixty Minutes, a woman named Wendy Davis. She's now in her seventies. She was a mother of three and a social worker in nineteen ninety and she Oh my god, it's just such a heart wrenching moving interview. This woman is incredible. She was a social worker working at her desk at Hollywood Hospital about thirty minutes from Huntingdale in nineteen ninety when a man comes into her office and asks if he can use the restroom that's right by her desk, and she glances at the man and like waves him in to use the bathroom, like go ahead, not thinking much of it since the man is wearing a uniform of the telecommunications company that's working on the hospital's phone lines that week, so she allows him to use the bathroom without much thought, but pretty quickly he comes out grabs her from behind, puts a rag over her mouth and fucking yanks her out of her chair and starts pulling her into the bathroom, and she's like, I don't want to die, Like I freaks out. I don't want to die. She starts fucking fighting back. I mean, she tells this whole story in the sixty minutes. I think it's an Australian once. She used to fight it online. But she starts kicking and fighting. She's able to turn herself around and starts fucking wailing on his shins with her fucking high heels, and so he stops, and she says, just as suddenly as the atta started, it stops, And she says, the man seems to come out of a trance almost and starts to apologize, and he's held down until police arrive and on him. They find cable ties in his pocket. And the man is a twenty one year old Telstra employee named Bradley Robert Edwards. And somehow he is only charged with common assault. It's called so and they say in the sixty minutes that you can get a charge of common assault by like yelling a curseword across the street at someone. It's just Oh, they don't acknowledge the sexual motivation of the attack. You know, it's not attempted rape or attempted kidnapping or you know, her free will being attack, it's none of that. He only gets two years probation. He doesn't even get fired from his fucking job at Telstra, right, oh Jesus, despite attacking a woman on the job, he does on the job on the job instead, a supervisor to speak with the victim and tries to assure her that Edwards is a good kid who's just under a ton of stress. Ew no, so yeah, so okay. Finally though, this leads to the killer. In December twenty sixteen, the prints from the Huntingdale Prowler incident are tested and they match the prince to the Hollywood hospital case belonging to Bradley Robert Edwards. So they finally have a suspect, but they still need his DNA to match the DNA of the unknown killer. So, all right, who's who is this asshole? Well, it turns out that he's still working for Telstra. He had enjoyed a good career, pay raises, you know all this shit, moved up in ranks with the company.
He's forty six years old.
He's tall and like a large, well built man with dark hair. He looks like a normal dad. This fucking piece of shit he's got like cropped hair, clean cut polo shirts. You wouldn't think twice.
Yeah, he's because he's in he's hiding right plain sight.
He's a totally unassuming.
They don't look like monsters. The monsters don't look like monsters.
He's an unassuming dude. He had been married twice. He has a stepdaughter, although he and his second wife were having issues and on the weekends.
For years, he had worked for.
Like athletic clubs at the Belmont little athletics clubs were like, you know, like for us to be a Yso I think we're just.
Like kids playing sports. Sure, he had been.
On the committee as a records officer, and by two thousand and seventy he had become the club's president. So he's not some creep in the shadows. He's fucking out there living a stand up life, John Wayne Gacy style exactly, and he becomes the club's president. There's even pictures of him in the newspaper receiving a an award and stuff. Wow, uh huh, and it's more of the usual, unassuming. Everyone couldn't believe it. He helped his neighbors computer like you know, the usual, the usual. We got an email from a listener who wrote in about him and then so she was she was friends with the family and so as a kid, she says, quote, he was always really nice and charming. And the things that sticks out to me the most is he was also one of the most sympathetic people I've ever met in my life. So he used he used to drive this little girl and another little girl home every day. And she said, because of my religious background, I'm not supposed to eat beef, but I love it. So when he used to pick me up, he used to get me McDonald's cheeseburgers. It's so spine chilling to me that a serial killer bought me food and I ate it when I was alone in the car with him.
And that's from Swagata Wow, I know, right, Like, yeah, she like got driven around by a serial killer.
That's nice and charming, sympathetic, yes, yeah. So a surveillance operation begins and with dent days, detectives grab a sprite bottle that Edwards had thrown away at a movie theater where he watched a movie with his stepdaughter, And when the bottle's tested, it's a match. And so finally, after twenty years, with all the evidence being tied together because the DNA found under Sierra Glennon's fingernails, because she fucking fought back, it's all tied together, and this the Claremont serial killer is finally caught. But you know, you think about this, the common assault charge doesn't get fired from his job. It's maybe if things had been different, some of these cases wouldn't even have happened, you know, if you had been treated like the second.
Yeah, I have someone to go in and fight for his fucking right, his right to assault women. And because he was stressed out, that should just be ignored. Yeah, hey, guess what's sorry? Because I'm sure that person heartily regrets even even being involved in that. But that was a massive That was a mistake built on misogyny. That was a mistake built on nothing can happen to the boys, and the girls just complain a lot, and that's fucking bullshit and crazy.
Yeah, that person should be I mean, I can't imagine living with myself after that.
And then no, that's terrible. I'm sure they I mean.
And it's so sad because in this interview, this woman feels all the guilt, you know, the woman who was attacked is like, I should have done more, which please, like they they didn't even take you seriously, you couldn't have done more. You were the victim. You were supposed to be fighting for.
Yours And also no, exactly she it wasn't her job to fight for that or solve the case or do it correctly. It wasn't her job. But on top of that, the fact that that happened to her and that she did survive and fought so hard is the reason they ultimately were able to find that guy and solve that case. So she did more than and she did everything. She's foundational, that's right. She's the fucking hero and her story yeah big time.
Yeah. So when his home is raided, police discover allegedly all kinds of like twisted stuff, kind of like the BTK of like homemade sex toys and women's underwear with holes cut out, violent erotica stories that are like about the abduction and women and pouring depicting rape and torture. Just really sadistic, you know, stuff that this mild mannered person wouldn't We wouldn't think they have it in there in their house. And right it's brought in for questioning. Again, mild mannered, he's calm, he acts surprised and confused about bring brought in and speaks openly with the investigators for twelve hours, and he politely tells them repeatedly that he has no knowledge of the killings and says he is quote one hundred and twenty percent positive that he had no involvement in the murders or the sexual or the sexual assaults.
I don't think, okay, high red flag. Yeah, the phrasing of that, I am one hundred and twenty percent positive I'm not involved. Yeah, because there's a world where you could maybe not be sure, like you, you either know you are or you're not involved at all. Right, there's no The assuredness that I'm really sure I didn't do anything is basically giving away that you don't know that your brain is a mystery to you and you don't know what, like what you're doing.
Right, Because an innocent person would say I didn't do that, that I am not the person who did that.
I promise I didn't do it.
I'm not sure positive I didn't do it. I don't know.
Yeah, I'm positive I'm not involved, right, Oh, okay, yeah, as opposed to what you're secretly keeping in your head that you are absolutely involved. It's like giving the the ant. Giving the opposite answer to the secret in your head gives it away.
But finally his DNA is tested positive.
I'm not yeact ok.
Try that you're next time you're lying. Everyone Finally is DNA is tested and he's arrested for the murders of twenty seven year old Sierra Glennon, twenty three year old Jane Rimmer, and eighteen year old Sarah Spears, as well as the nineteen eighty eight huntington Dale sexual assault of the eighteen year old woman. And by the way, he lived in Huntingtondale as a teenager when these prowling incidents were happening, so o real connection there, and two counts of aggravated sexual penetration without consent of the seventeen year old girl in Claremont's in the Claremont Cemetery in nineteen ninety five, all of which he pleads innocent for. Okay, so he's brought to trial three years later. On November twenty fifth, twenty nineteen, the night before the trial begins, he admits and pleads guilty to both the sexual assault cases, but not the murders. He pleads innocent to the murders. He's like, okay, lied about not being involved in the sexual assault cases, And essentially the defense comes down to the argument that the DNA was contaminated, which I think, I think is why he must have pled guilty to the two assaults so he could explain his DNA being in the lab and then saying, well, you must have used that DNA and got it, you know, mixed up and contaminated with the DNA of the murders, which is fucking smart.
It's because I'm because I'm just a rape, but just a.
Rate a murderer, right, yes, my, If you can't explain why your DNA is at any scene, then it shouldn't be in the room at all. But if your DNA is supposed to be in the room because you are involved, motherfucker.
That is a cynical uh uh mercenary approach that sounds like it was. It was that a bunch of people worked on that idea.
Shame up with that strategy. It sure does, doesn't dirty.
Yes. Well, also, just because the you're admitting to something that actually is it's it's lending itself much more to the character argument that you are a bad fucking person, a sociopath anyway or whatever, psychopath, the idea that you're just like, it's just.
Those it's not this, So maybe I'll get away with the other ones.
It's an angle, but I think it actually reveals much more about that person totally in it because Jesus fucking Christ.
And yeah, and it wasn't well thought out and yeah, and it's like, uh, it's what was I going to say? Oh, Also, the mo fits all of them, you know, in some way or another. So and also the fact that this, you know, the seventeen year old got got grabbed off the street and pulled and tied up and pulled into the van makes them makes everyone wonder if that's actually they didn't get into a taxi or an unmarked car. Maybe maybe one of them or all of them were attacked on the street and you know, kidnapped.
So yeah, and that if he was such a great guy, a sympathetic guy, a lovely, friendly guy, that it would be very easy if he's wearing a uniform of this kind of way known. That's the thing.
Yes, he used, he used the company car. He wore his uniform. Other women said that they had seen him in the area and maybe he tried to pick them up at the time. They testified to that, and he's like at work, he's worked. Oh, I'm just going to this call for this phone line. Want me to take you to that area?
I can take you. Yeah. So I'm just this business guy. I practically work for the city. I'm just like this. I'm it's like the Culligan manner. So it's like the arrowhead Spring delivery guy where you're like, yes, this is the most trustworthy person because he's around. He is you know, we were saying, like it's so sinister when it's in a group of people. He makes up a background player in a group of people. That's the guy, the phone line guy totally, I mean, and also the idea that he worked for that company. The knives were found at the scenes of of some bodies. You don't need the other stuff. I mean, you're in it, friend.
Here's well some of the some of the so essentially the defense comes down to the argument that the DNA was contaminated, which is, you know, and that which is the defense is able to show other instances of contamination in the case, including several times when the DNA of scientists working on the case was found on samples. So you know, they do have a chance with that plea or that argument.
You covered that one. It wasn't that San Diego.
San Diego, right, but no, but in this actual lab or this DNA was yeah.
Oh that's They weren't just saying it happened in general now, And.
When I read that, I remember reading it in like like March, being like, oh fuck, like this better not get him off. And on sample and one instance where the DNA of a victim of a totally unrelated crime had been contaminated with a sample of the Claremont killer, but it was all debunked on cross examination, so I don't even know if it's true. And then the fiber evidence also forms a significant part of the prosecution's case. I remember those blue polyester fibers found on miss Rimmer and Skelennon's bodies, Well, they matched the telstro work pants that Edwards would have worn in the mid nineties. Which were manufactured specifically for the company using a bespoke color known as Telstra Navy. So it all fucking ties back to Telstra and you're like, that's crazy. They should have Oh and there's also fibers that matched the nineteen ninety six hold In Commodore that he had driven at the time, And you're like, why didn't Why didn't they look more into Telstra employees. Why didn't they look at their background checks on all of them? Blah blah blah. So investigators had asked for the names of Telstra workers who have driven those cars since there had been sightings of those cars. Somehow his fucking name was left off of the list, quote clerical error or some shit twice. So if they had someone, I wonder if they would have seen that he had a prior Well, they would have seen he had a common assault charge, not a sexually motivated charge, but maybe he had some charge.
They would have looked at you. They would have seen and maybe been able to go and talk to the victim and see what the real deal was. But also maybe he made it, because clearly he got away with it for a long time, So maybe he did something and he had access absolutely when they were putting those lists together, he had access and the ability to delete his own name off the list.
Or maybe he would mean clearly his fucking supervisors are sympathetic. Maybe he went to them and say, hey, I have this charge, it was for nothing years ago. I don't need them looking at me. Can you just take my name off the list? Obviously it's not me. And maybe they did it, who the fuck knows.
Maybe maybe, I mean, because it is the thing about these people that are they're barely people, because they're entirely dedicated to creating a mask that you fall for and feel safe with. And yeah, they just manipulate everyone all the time. It's crazy, so that they don't get caught, that's the whole point of their life.
And also Telstra had no record of the actual assault in their files that did even happen.
So we're going to go ahead and need a report from Telstra that we're going to have to do an internal investigation. I want.
I want Wendy Davis to now own the company Telstra and all the money she gets, all of it for not being fucking believed and for not being fucking treated the way she should have been treated. Sorry, Wendy go on Telstra now and she can sell it for movie.
Yeah, just give her some old school stock.
So the trial which is decided, so there's no journey. It's just going to be a judge instead of a jury because of the massive public like everyone knows everything about it, and also there's these really gruesome details that they just don't think a jury should see. So it's going to be decided upon by a judge. So it's eighty five days in the courtroom and there's testimony for more than two hundred witnesses, sixty thousand pages of DNA and five were evidence, and one hundred and ten gigabytes of data which in today's gigabytes, I don't know what it is, and it's a billion. It started, it started to last it started last November. So they did it through COVID too, like the.
Whole they're just plowing through.
Yeah, wow, which is incredible. And finally, on Thursday September twenty fourth, just what two three weeks ago, Justice Stephen Hall delivers his verdict. So Bradley John Edwards he's now fifty one, has found guilty of the murders of Jane Rimmer in nineteen ninety six and Sierra Glennon in nineteen ninety seven. But unfortunately, he says that though Edwards is likely the killer of Sarah Spears, he felt he couldn't rule it beyond a reasonable doubt because her body had never been found, so there's no DNA evidence even though the MO is identical. So he acquits Edwards on that count, which is so disappointing. I don't think he's doing his job. Obviously he wanted them to him to be found guilty as well, but it's just almost like he's being rewarded for hiding her body.
So well well, I mean that's yeah, that's just how it is. But it's that thing of like, especially in a situation where if DNA is questionable in the first place, that guy has to be so meticulous about the rule of law, right, and what exactly is required to get up, you know, like a guilty verdict. So I almost want to look around.
Yeah, I wonder if, almost, if there'd be another trial just with Sarah Spears case based on the MO of the other cases that you know, if it wasn't tried together, they would somehow, you know, because.
People, I mean, they just would need more. I would think they would need more evidence to tip it over because the evidence as such that he's saying isn't going to do the job.
That's true.
That's too bad.
So sentencing will take place on December twenty third. And so finally, after twenty four years Australia's longest running and most expensive criminal investigation, when that scarred the city of Perth, finally came to a close. There are people who think that there are more victims of Bradley John Edwards that are not yet known, which isn't surprising, the same way Golden State killer just stopped, you know what he was doing, or you know are their cases from before the known ones. After the verdict, Sierra Glennon's father, Dennis said that he had made a graveside promise to his daughter to pursue justice for her or die trying. He said, quote that promise, that commitment to Siarra has driven me unwaveringly and unapp apologetically. The family of Jane Rimmer released a statement saying they were pleased to finally have quote some answers about the abduction and horrendous murder of our beloved Jane. Jane had her whole life ahead of her, and it's almost beyond comprehension that this could have ended in such horrific, heinous circumstances. Our family can now take some comfort today and the healing process can begin. Both families agree, however, that the ordeal won't be over until the Spears family has some closure.
Oh.
Jane's sister Lee said, quote, we got the result we wanted, and now we just have to keep working for the Spears family and hope someone finds Sarah. And that is the story of the Claremont serial killer.
Good. Wow, it's I think I listened to who is the Australian guy that hosts his show and does no one knows?
Is?
Oh yeah, case File? Case File? Yes, for sure, I listen to the I listened to the Case File about this. I think anyone that listened to our podcast we've talked about Case File before, but if you haven't heard it, it's great. He does an amazing job on that show, and especially Australian based crimes like you obviously so such a good researcher. But yeah, it is such a like epic case. There the idea that they just closed the book in for those two murders at least. Yeah, it's kind of amazing. I mean that's I.
Think so many people just never thought it'd be solved, you know, And when you think of it in terms of Perth being pretty small and isolated and just knowing that there's a killer among you that you have no idea when they're going to strike again, it's never going to be It would never be safe for a woman to fucking walk home again.
It's just it's horrible. Also makes me think of, you know, like what excuse me, what Billy and Paul are doing on Murder Squad, because it doesn't it always come down every time we tell these stories where it's cold case and then something comes up because they have this, Yeah, they have fresh blood in the you know, the people, new detectives people that are there. They're dedicating cold case teams to this, and people are going into the evidence room and pulling out those old boxes and looking through them. I mean, that's just like doing it the old fashioned way. It's always really heartening ye to hear those stories of people who are like, we want these solved, and we want these families to yeah, to get justice in some way.
And not only as the technology changing so they can do DNA testing the way they never could. But our thought, our ideas of what a victim is and what a perpetrator is and who could do these crimes and how and why they happen is changing coming. Yes, hopefully less fucking misogynistic, so that people.
Well also just a little bit more fact based, because how many stories have we told where it is always these people who everyone says they're great. They lent me things from their garage, like the way the way we decide people are good people in this world. They don't make problems for me. A lot of smiling, small talk and conversation and then you know, hopefully you don't ever catch them on that weird day where they decide to kick a cat or something.
Right like accidentally, it's just this bump their car and see the rage suddenly in their face or whatever.
It's just such superficial. Like I hope that if nothing else, all of the true crime trend just will hit people to the idea that you have to we've talked about this before, save that trust for the third date. Like you, if it's your neighbor and he lends you the lawnmower, doesn't mean, he's a good person, like you need to see people out in their day to day and I mean, but again, like we said, with some of these like true psychopaths, you would never be a you would never think in a million years, because that's they dedicate their lives to being the kind of people you would never suspect. Wow, great job, that was really good.
Thank you.
H Yeah. I like the idea that that's uh, that's one we can we can look at as being solved now.
It's amazing, thank god.
Yeah, all right, it's fucking hooray time, all right, and not a moment too soon.
Amen.
Let's see. This one's from Haley and it says this fucking horay is for Slash about my fellow Murderino, former roommate and best friend Kendall. We just graduated college, which is a fucking hoorray in and of itself, during twenty twenty, and then this bitch started this Isn't all caps. And then this bitch started law school at fucking Harvard Law. She is one of the smartest, hardest working people I know, and she truly cares about this world and politics and fighting for those without a voice. She's exactly the type of lawyer that we all know this world needs more of, and there's no one more deserving. She also did this while being a wonderful friend and daughter while her while both of her parents are kicking cancer's ass. I love her and I'm so fucking proud of her, and I can't wait to watch her become a real life Elle Woods, fighting for people that need to voice the most a s SDGM Hayley, Hell yeah, I love that. Something way to glow your friend up.
I know. I love that someone else's fucking horay is their friend. That's so beautiful.
She's very proud of her friend who went to Harvard fucking law that's badass. Yeah, okay, this is so awesome.
From Instagram from Live Underscore Desiree. Okay, my fucking horay this week are my mom and Murderino friends who helped me SSDGM. Two of these badass ladies who know my morning walk routine immediately checked in on me when there was a report of two active shooters in our area. Within minutes, I had four different friends who check in every few minutes until I was home. Safe women looking after women. It's such a beautiful thing if it hadn't been for them, I probably would have walked right through the wrong neighborhood on my way home, or taken my usual trail through the woods where the perpetrators were evading police.
Oh shit, I'm.
So grateful and so lucky to have the friends that I do. Huge thank you to them for making sure my son and I got home safe.
Wow, beautiful, this friends seem Yeah, that was a little monkey. Let's see this says fucking hoor right. I saved a life. I'm a nine to one one dispatcher for a living, so I deal with people's worst every worst day, every day.
Oh wow, and holy shit.
The other day I took a call from a teenager that her aunt wasn't responding. I got the ambulance en route and we started CPR. The paramedics got on scene, and she became alert and talked with them. Than to all caps, she walked herself to the ambulance. Not the first life save I've had before, but it's always a great feeling because most things don't end that well in my line of work. Stephanie, amazing, amazing, keep it up.
Yeah, this one is called I FaceTime my ninety five year old great grandma for the first time. This is from the fan Call forum and it's sent by Louis Bond Dewey. What's up, Louis, Louis Okay, my ninety five year old great grandma Dolores is one of my most favorite people on Earth. She's a g damn angel. She lives two hours up North End. Though I have tried to see her at her nursing facility, I've been denied three times, even for a window visit. She has pretty severe Alzheimers, so she doesn't really know who I am anymore. But I tried to visit her as often as I could when the world allowed. But last night I found out she's in the hospital and tested positive for COVID. Not the best news, but my boyfriend called the hospital and explained that he is a coroner and I work in a funeral home, and that our city has seen more cases than the whole country she lives in. He then was directed at the hospital coordinator, who informed him that I am able to FaceTime her on the hospital's iPad and I got to see her. The nurse told her quote Lindsay's on the phone, and she perked up. Her eyes got big, and she seemed to know who I was. Through tears and some giggles. I finally got to see her one more time. I told her I love her, and the nurse said she gripped the iPad tighter and pulled it closer. I wish I was there so she could squeeze my hand when I told her I love her like she used to. But I knew her grumbles and snickers meant that she loved me too. Stay sexy and tell the people you love that you love them any chance you get, Lindsey, Oh well, yeah, heavy.
That'd be nice. I mean, it's heavy times. Everything's getting real, fucking real, and there's people dealing with shit like this, you know, trying to get a hold of their relatives who are dying alone in a hospital. Like aside from aside from the fact that there's no plan, aside from the fact there's no contact tracing, aside from all these other things that are an absolute just collapse of leadership, That idea that there's just no no one's taken the time just to make this a more workable, livable thing is just we're going to be dealing with it for a long time.
We are. We totally are yep.
But we can say, but we can say when things are great, because there's little things that are and we just keep doing it.
It's right. Look for your point, look for the fucking horays in your life and tell them to us on Instagram and Twitter and a fan call.
Please. Ye we need it. We all need it.
You really need it.
I have hummingbirds that there's hummingbirds in my tree and there's hummingbirds in the neighbor's tree, and now there's a hummingbird highway between the two that's right outside my window. And uh, that's a fucking ray. I mean, that's my fucking rate. Because also it reflects of how much time I spend steering at windows and sitting at this desk being like oh. But then it's like, yeah, I gotta gotta, you know, keep your eye peeled for I picked birds traveling at high speeds.
My fucking herrays. I haven't had a drink in three nights. Tonight will be four nights, and I'm just trying to take a little time off and I and it's been great. I had this realization that like, oh, you know, all the anxiety and negativity and self hatred and self talk you do when you're drunk. It actually will stop if you don't drink. It's not like it'll get better. It's not like it's not like it'll lower it a little bit. Like that whole thing will stop. There's a way to actually stop it. It like hit me like, oh one hundred, I don't have to have a hangover over again if I I just completely stop. Fuck right, I know, baby steps, I'm learning.
That's right. Well, you know what it is. You have to feel the reality of it, because you can't conceptualize your way into doing that. You just have to go, this feels better. I'm gonna do it until it doesn't feel better, and then I'm gonna deal with it when it's something else before the moment and for right now you can go. I want to do the thing that feels the best to me, because especially all things considered, Yeah, let's actually aim at good feeling as opposed to habits that we think bring relief.
Right, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, so I'm trying something.
Else, right.
Amen. Nice, Thanks for listening for two hours to us. You guys in this crazy world. We appreciate that you stop by and say hello to your aunts, your crazy ants.
Yeah, that's right. Oh, we love when you come to visit.
Honey, God, how's the hard lady?
I have the Christmas cookies you like from last Christmas. Let me pull out this tin. Oh.
Grandma energy, honey, Grandma energy, Honey, I'll fix.
You a plate. That's what grandmas do. Keep that grandma energy this week. If you can't do anything else, then at least just keep a little of your grandma, of someone else's grandma. You liked a cartoon, grandma, whatever you need, But that's the energy approach everyone with Grandma energy this week. Yes, I'll fix you a plate. Of course, you can come over Grandma's. Feed everybody, fix your herd do it? Yeah? Feed others?
Yeah.
And oh and also.
Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie
