Mother Knows Death presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy.

Mother Knows Death presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy.

On today's external Exam, we will be speaking with a veteran news journalist who specializes in true crime. Her coverage of stories such as the Idaho college student murders, the Long Island serial killer, and the Scott Peterson trial and conviction have earned her an Edward R. Merrow Award. Today, we will discuss her career as a true crime journalist and talk about some of the infamous cases she has covered. Please welcome Laura Engel to the show.

On today's external Exam, we will be speaking with a veteran news journalist who specializes in true crime. Her coverage of stories such as the Idaho college student murders, the Long Island serial killer, and the Scott Peterson trial and conviction have earned her an Edward R. Merrow Award. Today, we will discuss her career as a true crime journalist and talk about some of the infamous cases she has covered. Please welcome Laura Engel to the show.

Hello, thank you so much for having me.

Hello, thank you so much for having me.

Thanks so much for being here. It's so crazy to be talking to you right now, because I feel like I know you. You've been covering these cases my entire adult life.

Thanks so much for being here. It's so crazy to be talking to you right now, because I feel like I know you. You've been covering these cases my entire adult life.

Well, thank you very much. Yes, I've covered a lot, and when I go back in my rolodex of true crime, sometimes I go, wow, that was so long ago that to me it feels like it was just yesterday. And a lot of these cases.

Well, thank you very much. Yes, I've covered a lot, and when I go back in my rolodex of true crime, sometimes I go, wow, that was so long ago that to me it feels like it was just yesterday. And a lot of these cases.

Yeah, I mean, I think I was in my twenties. I was in my early twenties when the whole Scott Peterson thing happened. And just being here talking with you today is just it's just crazy because I've, like I said, I've seen you reporting on all these and I just feel like I know you well.

Yeah, I mean, I think I was in my twenties. I was in my early twenties when the whole Scott Peterson thing happened. And just being here talking with you today is just it's just crazy because I've, like I said, I've seen you reporting on all these and I just feel like I know you well.

Thank you very much that I appreciate that.

Thank you very much that I appreciate that.

Your job is really cool.

Your job is really cool.

And I always like to talk about careers that women especially can get in this field, especially if they don't like doing something as gruesome as my job. For example, So how did you get into this field? I know you got your start in radio, but when how old were you when you started working in radio?

And I always like to talk about careers that women especially can get in this field, especially if they don't like doing something as gruesome as my job. For example, So how did you get into this field? I know you got your start in radio, but when how old were you when you started working in radio?

I too, was in my early twenties, and I came into this world of news reporting through of all things rock and roll. I was a rock DJ at a radio station in my hometown of Sacramento, California, and that's really where I got my start. And it's a really long story. I won't go into too much of it, but I really only wanted to work at this radio station because I wanted to be in the building with my favorite DJs and all the rock stars would come through and I would listen in my Mustang to all the interviews, and I thought it was so cool, and I really just wanted to answer the phones and take out the garbage. And I ended up getting a job working as a sales assistant because the one skill I had I could type. I can type fast, and I encourage anybody in high school to take that course because it will pay off. It was one of the most important things that I ever took in school. But I got this job as a sales assistant. One day after work and I was putting together sales pitches for the sales team members I was working with, and somebody needed a voice on a commercial. It was or super Shops, this tire store, and I went in and I laid down the track and somebody turned to me and they said, oh, you should maybe do some radio. And that's how it really started for me. And then one thing led to another, and I ended up working overnights and then weekends, and then I got a full time job being a DJ at this rock radio station, and I was the night jock, which meant I got to interview all of the cool rock stars that were coming through to do shows in Sacramento. My first interview was with White Zombie and then off we went. So I did that for a really long time until you know, as anybody who works in radio knows, someday a new program director will come in and they'll clean out shop, they'll switch things up, they'll bring in their own people. And that's what happened to me. And I was ushered out of that radio station and thought, oh my gosh, my wife is over. This is all I know. But then I remembered that my grandmother had always had this transistor radio on top of her washing machine, and she listened to news radio, and I always found it really fascinating. And so I started making calls and kind of did the same routine of calling and calling and calling to see if I could get a job, answering the phones, taking out the trash, really taking a step back because I had a really big job on the rock side of radio, and I had to start all over and reinvent myself for news radio, which is what I did.

I too, was in my early twenties, and I came into this world of news reporting through of all things rock and roll. I was a rock DJ at a radio station in my hometown of Sacramento, California, and that's really where I got my start. And it's a really long story. I won't go into too much of it, but I really only wanted to work at this radio station because I wanted to be in the building with my favorite DJs and all the rock stars would come through and I would listen in my Mustang to all the interviews, and I thought it was so cool, and I really just wanted to answer the phones and take out the garbage. And I ended up getting a job working as a sales assistant because the one skill I had I could type. I can type fast, and I encourage anybody in high school to take that course because it will pay off. It was one of the most important things that I ever took in school. But I got this job as a sales assistant. One day after work and I was putting together sales pitches for the sales team members I was working with, and somebody needed a voice on a commercial. It was or super Shops, this tire store, and I went in and I laid down the track and somebody turned to me and they said, oh, you should maybe do some radio. And that's how it really started for me. And then one thing led to another, and I ended up working overnights and then weekends, and then I got a full time job being a DJ at this rock radio station, and I was the night jock, which meant I got to interview all of the cool rock stars that were coming through to do shows in Sacramento. My first interview was with White Zombie and then off we went. So I did that for a really long time until you know, as anybody who works in radio knows, someday a new program director will come in and they'll clean out shop, they'll switch things up, they'll bring in their own people. And that's what happened to me. And I was ushered out of that radio station and thought, oh my gosh, my wife is over. This is all I know. But then I remembered that my grandmother had always had this transistor radio on top of her washing machine, and she listened to news radio, and I always found it really fascinating. And so I started making calls and kind of did the same routine of calling and calling and calling to see if I could get a job, answering the phones, taking out the trash, really taking a step back because I had a really big job on the rock side of radio, and I had to start all over and reinvent myself for news radio, which is what I did.

I think a really important story of anyone that's really successful, as you always hear that there was a point that they went home and cried and said, oh my god, my life is over, and I'm everything I worked for is done. And it's just encouraging to hear because it always gets better, you know.

I think a really important story of anyone that's really successful, as you always hear that there was a point that they went home and cried and said, oh my god, my life is over, and I'm everything I worked for is done. And it's just encouraging to hear because it always gets better, you know.

Yeah, yeah, in the moment, you know, in the moment, I just thought everything I really did, I thought, what am I going to do? This is all I know how to do, This is all I want to do, and I just couldn't see past it in those first initial days a week. But then you just really have to kind of quiet your mind and think, Okay, how can I apply this skill set maybe in another way. And at that time, for music radio, they just started a lot of radio stations had just started doing automation, which was you know, I actually got a quick job at another radio station where I did five hours of radio in five minutes. So I just read the in and out in between the songs. They'd put it together and they said bye, and I said, wait, how big is the paycheck going to be? And so that really worried me. And that's what really turned me on to news, because I thought, well, there's always going to be a need for news, you know, that's live and immediate. So that's I just had to change my sights to that. And I was very interested in that anyway.

Yeah, yeah, in the moment, you know, in the moment, I just thought everything I really did, I thought, what am I going to do? This is all I know how to do, This is all I want to do, and I just couldn't see past it in those first initial days a week. But then you just really have to kind of quiet your mind and think, Okay, how can I apply this skill set maybe in another way. And at that time, for music radio, they just started a lot of radio stations had just started doing automation, which was you know, I actually got a quick job at another radio station where I did five hours of radio in five minutes. So I just read the in and out in between the songs. They'd put it together and they said bye, and I said, wait, how big is the paycheck going to be? And so that really worried me. And that's what really turned me on to news, because I thought, well, there's always going to be a need for news, you know, that's live and immediate. So that's I just had to change my sights to that. And I was very interested in that anyway.

And how long did you end up working in radio?

And how long did you end up working in radio?

Oh? Boy, how long did I end up working in radio? I would say fifteen seventeen years. I mean I'm still doing radio today.

Oh? Boy, how long did I end up working in radio? I would say fifteen seventeen years. I mean I'm still doing radio today.

Yeah, technically podcasts too, kind.

Yeah, technically podcasts too, kind.

Yeah. Yeah, I've done a couple of podcasts on my own, and I'm going to be doing one here this year as well. Stay tuned. But yeah, since I was in my early twenties, it's really always been a medium that I have connected with. My dad always had the radio on in the car instead of my mom, and so it was just one of those things. It's so it's a relatable, it's a relatable format, and it's something that you can take anywhere. Nowadays, of course it's different, you really can take it anywhere. But I just always loved it, and I loved the theater of the mind, and that was what really drew me to news radio in the very beginning, because my first story were the floods of nineteen ninety seven and Sacramento, my hometown. The levees broke, and all of our very skilled and very experienced news reporters went out to all these different areas. So imagine a major metropolitan area going underwater very quickly. A lot of parts were going underwater. It was a huge problem. So we had you know, Cammi Lloyd going to the Office of Emergency Services. We had Kevin Kevin Burke going to the state capitol. So everybody was being dispatched to these really important places, and this phone call came into the news room. I was literally the last person standing. This phone call came in and they said, we've got live stock drowning in the fields. Sacramento is a cow town. My family actually has a cattle ranch. And they said, what are we going to do? I mean, this is not just a couple of cows. This is a lot of live stock, horses and cows that were getting stuck in the mud. And I remember my news director turned around at this point. I was only really qualified to answer the phones. And he turned around and he's like, does anybody know anybody? I said, actually, I know somebody, and he looked at me. He goes, yeah, but you're a rock DJ. I said, listen, it's the same thing. Right. When I was a rock DJ. I would go to a show. I would interview rock stars backstage. I would tell people what was going on. It's the same thing, just with different players, right. He's like, I guess, oh ahead. So he gave me a flip phone and a tape recorder, and off I went. I called my uncle. He threw me on a tractor and We went into the middle of a of a big muddy field with the sound the gnat sound of distressed cattle everywhere. I didn't even need to use the tape deck and I just opened up the phone and I started talking to the farmers and the ranchers and just talking to them and holding up the phone. And when I got back into the newsroom absolutely covered in mud. I wore white shoes that day. My converse. It was a disaster. And I got back into the newsroom and he looked at me and he goes, okay, all right, so you're a reporter now. And that's that's how it started.

Yeah. Yeah, I've done a couple of podcasts on my own, and I'm going to be doing one here this year as well. Stay tuned. But yeah, since I was in my early twenties, it's really always been a medium that I have connected with. My dad always had the radio on in the car instead of my mom, and so it was just one of those things. It's so it's a relatable, it's a relatable format, and it's something that you can take anywhere. Nowadays, of course it's different, you really can take it anywhere. But I just always loved it, and I loved the theater of the mind, and that was what really drew me to news radio in the very beginning, because my first story were the floods of nineteen ninety seven and Sacramento, my hometown. The levees broke, and all of our very skilled and very experienced news reporters went out to all these different areas. So imagine a major metropolitan area going underwater very quickly. A lot of parts were going underwater. It was a huge problem. So we had you know, Cammi Lloyd going to the Office of Emergency Services. We had Kevin Kevin Burke going to the state capitol. So everybody was being dispatched to these really important places, and this phone call came into the news room. I was literally the last person standing. This phone call came in and they said, we've got live stock drowning in the fields. Sacramento is a cow town. My family actually has a cattle ranch. And they said, what are we going to do? I mean, this is not just a couple of cows. This is a lot of live stock, horses and cows that were getting stuck in the mud. And I remember my news director turned around at this point. I was only really qualified to answer the phones. And he turned around and he's like, does anybody know anybody? I said, actually, I know somebody, and he looked at me. He goes, yeah, but you're a rock DJ. I said, listen, it's the same thing. Right. When I was a rock DJ. I would go to a show. I would interview rock stars backstage. I would tell people what was going on. It's the same thing, just with different players, right. He's like, I guess, oh ahead. So he gave me a flip phone and a tape recorder, and off I went. I called my uncle. He threw me on a tractor and We went into the middle of a of a big muddy field with the sound the gnat sound of distressed cattle everywhere. I didn't even need to use the tape deck and I just opened up the phone and I started talking to the farmers and the ranchers and just talking to them and holding up the phone. And when I got back into the newsroom absolutely covered in mud. I wore white shoes that day. My converse. It was a disaster. And I got back into the newsroom and he looked at me and he goes, okay, all right, so you're a reporter now. And that's that's how it started.

Oh god, I love that so much.

Oh god, I love that so much.

It's like having this confidence in yourself that you just know that you're going to do a good job, and you have to convince someone that you're at that level.

It's like having this confidence in yourself that you just know that you're going to do a good job, and you have to convince someone that you're at that level.

Is awesome.

Is awesome.

Well, and the other my other little mantra in my head I had at the time, somebody's got to do it. It may as well be me, you know, because I've learned from watching in newsrooms and in radio rock radio stations that you know, somebody else is going to step up to the plate. And it's hard. It's hard sometimes to put your foot forward and raise your hand and say, wait, I think I can do this because all they can say is no, and all you can do is fail and then try again and learn from it.

Well, and the other my other little mantra in my head I had at the time, somebody's got to do it. It may as well be me, you know, because I've learned from watching in newsrooms and in radio rock radio stations that you know, somebody else is going to step up to the plate. And it's hard. It's hard sometimes to put your foot forward and raise your hand and say, wait, I think I can do this because all they can say is no, and all you can do is fail and then try again and learn from it.

Yeah, and that's a big thing, like just not taking any kind of risk doesn't get you anywhere, and you always have to expect to be told no. But take the chance that because it like just that one chance for you changed your whole entire course of your life.

Yeah, and that's a big thing, like just not taking any kind of risk doesn't get you anywhere, and you always have to expect to be told no. But take the chance that because it like just that one chance for you changed your whole entire course of your life.

You know it, did it? Really did? I mean I think that news director who I'm still in touch with today, we tell this story often about, you know, just this crazy way it all started, and you know, had it not been for that moment, had it not been for those cows, who I can say most of them were successfully removed from the mud with tractors and chains. Had it not been for that moment, I really don't know. I might still be answering phone somewhere.

You know it, did it? Really did? I mean I think that news director who I'm still in touch with today, we tell this story often about, you know, just this crazy way it all started, and you know, had it not been for that moment, had it not been for those cows, who I can say most of them were successfully removed from the mud with tractors and chains. Had it not been for that moment, I really don't know. I might still be answering phone somewhere.

It's interesting because everybody has either listened to radio or even just watch the news, and you just see these people on there all the time and it looks very natural, but it's actually very hard to get whatever you're thinking in your head out of your mouth in such a way that you don't stutter, you don't say like a million times. I'm guilty of that, of course, but just being clear and concise all the time. It doesn't come naturally to everyone, and you just make it look like so easy, you know.

It's interesting because everybody has either listened to radio or even just watch the news, and you just see these people on there all the time and it looks very natural, but it's actually very hard to get whatever you're thinking in your head out of your mouth in such a way that you don't stutter, you don't say like a million times. I'm guilty of that, of course, but just being clear and concise all the time. It doesn't come naturally to everyone, and you just make it look like so easy, you know.

Oh that is so nice of you. Well, I think the life experiences that we all have lead us to where we are and give us that little bit of history within ourselves and our own encyclopedia and rolodex of what we can do, who we know, how we use that information, and even you know, being able to talk to you is to treat for me and to share that story because to me, sometimes when people ask me, I think you don't have time to listen to this long drawn out story, and is it really even interesting to you? But then I find out that it is interesting, and I love being able to share it. And sometimes people will ask me if i'll talk to I don't actually do a lot of I don't go to high schools or colleges, but I'm happy. I'm always happy to talk to people, and if anybody ever wants to reach out to me, you know, I'm happy to be a sounding board because there is so much rejection in this business that I've even just experienced in the last year. I'm doing better this year, but last year was a tough year for me. And you just have to get back up and it can take you a minute, and it's okay to be wounded, and it's okay to feel that rejection because hopefully it will propel you to get back up and be better in the next round in the match.

Oh that is so nice of you. Well, I think the life experiences that we all have lead us to where we are and give us that little bit of history within ourselves and our own encyclopedia and rolodex of what we can do, who we know, how we use that information, and even you know, being able to talk to you is to treat for me and to share that story because to me, sometimes when people ask me, I think you don't have time to listen to this long drawn out story, and is it really even interesting to you? But then I find out that it is interesting, and I love being able to share it. And sometimes people will ask me if i'll talk to I don't actually do a lot of I don't go to high schools or colleges, but I'm happy. I'm always happy to talk to people, and if anybody ever wants to reach out to me, you know, I'm happy to be a sounding board because there is so much rejection in this business that I've even just experienced in the last year. I'm doing better this year, but last year was a tough year for me. And you just have to get back up and it can take you a minute, and it's okay to be wounded, and it's okay to feel that rejection because hopefully it will propel you to get back up and be better in the next round in the match.

I agree with that, And you just have to know being a human that there's going to be really hard days.

I agree with that, And you just have to know being a human that there's going to be really hard days.

Yeah, sometimes hard years.

Yeah, sometimes hard years.

Like that's right, it's not perfect. And you know, I have an eleven year old and he never says anything like life isn't fair. But I told him before, like nobody ever said life is going to be fair, and we just have to find a way to navigate through it all. And some days are better than others. I remember, I've done a lot of really hard to report stories and I've done some really fun ones. And there was one period, there's one block of time where I got to do this really cool story, which I could tell you about later, but I got this really cool story and then the next day I had to go stand at a gas station in New Jersey on the turnpipe with garbage around my feet and rats running around. I looked at my camera. Man, I'm like, how did this just happen? We were just doing this really cool thing. He goes, Look, not every day is going to be that day. You got to have these gas station days to be able to do the other cool stuff too.

Like that's right, it's not perfect. And you know, I have an eleven year old and he never says anything like life isn't fair. But I told him before, like nobody ever said life is going to be fair, and we just have to find a way to navigate through it all. And some days are better than others. I remember, I've done a lot of really hard to report stories and I've done some really fun ones. And there was one period, there's one block of time where I got to do this really cool story, which I could tell you about later, but I got this really cool story and then the next day I had to go stand at a gas station in New Jersey on the turnpipe with garbage around my feet and rats running around. I looked at my camera. Man, I'm like, how did this just happen? We were just doing this really cool thing. He goes, Look, not every day is going to be that day. You got to have these gas station days to be able to do the other cool stuff too.

Yeah, that's kind of amazing. Actually, You're just like, how did I end up here right now?

Yeah, that's kind of amazing. Actually, You're just like, how did I end up here right now?

Like?

Like?

Why is this my life today?

Why is this my life today?

Yes?

Yes?

Yes, So you're working in radio all these years and then you decide that you're going to start doing TV, Like how did that transition?

Yes, So you're working in radio all these years and then you decide that you're going to start doing TV, Like how did that transition?

A car.

A car.

A happy accident, a happy circumstance. I would say in a dreadful story that I was covering in radio, so I worked at I mentioned that I was from Sacramento, So I did ninety three Rock KRXQ. Then I did KFBK, which is the big powerhouse news radio station, and then I ended up moving to Los Angeles and working at KFI AM six forty, which is a monster radio station and one I'm proud that I've worked at all of these radio stations. So I was working at KFI, and I was covering an awful story in San Diego, and it was one of the first big trials that I covered for KFI of the David Westerfield trial, and he was a man who was accused of kidnapping his six year old neighbor out of her house while her parents were partying in the garage. Upscale, nice, beautiful neighborhood, did really bad things to her and left her out in the desert. So I was covering that story and I was asked to go down there. My car had been breaking down. Living in Los Angeles, driving to San Diego is a far drive. If anybody's done it, you know how hard that is and how hot it is. And I was in Los Angeles and I had told my boss. I said, my car is not going to make it back and forth, and my jeep is not making it. And he said, well, I can't really give you one of our news cars, which are the cars with all the bells and whistles. He said, but our sister station has a vehicle that I think that we could probably let you use because it's off season. I said, what is it. He goes, well, it's our sports station that does the Dodgers. I said, oh, that's cool, that's great. So he hands me the keys and I go out and it is a VW bug that is painted like a baseball. So I drive a baseball down to a murder trial in San Diego, which is a devastating story to tell, but I'm here. I am in a baseball. So I drive down and I'm doing my radio thing. I and when we do radio in the car, you know, I've got the headset on, I've got my tape decks that are plugged into the phones, and I'm talking about being in the courtroom and what I'm observing and all of the different forensics. There was a lot of bug evidence in that case. And I was talking about, you know, the nuances of watching the victim's family looking at the defendant, talking about the attorneys and the and the wild people that they were calling to the stand. And I got a knock on my baseball car door and it was somebody from Fox News who was a producer who had been listening to me on that long drive back and forth, and said, hey, we've found you because somebody said they're the radio reporters and the baseball we want you to come on our show today. And it was with Shepherd Smith, and I said, oh, well, I do radio and they said, well, it's fine, you just come. Well, you'll sit down, you'll do fifteen minutes. It'll be great. And I said, okay, And of course i'm radio. So I'm in, you know, a T shirt and shorts. My hair's in a ponytail. And my friend that was working at Court TV in the satellite truck next to me looked at me. He said, you gotta go to the mall. You gotta gos like you can't do this, and I said okay. So I ran across the street to Ann Taylor. I bought a blazer and he said, let me have my person put some makeup on your face. Let's do this. So I did some makeup. I was so nervous. I went out and I talked on television about the trial, but I was covering, and I was so relieved when it was over. I took that thing called an IFB, which I'd never used before, out of my ear. I was like going back to my baseball. And then I turned and they said same time tomorrow, and I said, well, I only have the one blazer, that's all I got. This isn't going to work out. But I started doing that and then the same sort of thing happened when we wrapped up that trial, and then the Scott Peterson case happened, and when Scott Peterson was first arrested, we had the preliminary hearing in Modesto before the trial was moved to Redwood City, and I was in the back of a van that we had made into a radio station, my engineer and I and I had the side panel open and news anchor Greta Ancestron, who I'm still friends with in Forever Indebted to Today, was watching me. And she was standing there in her suit in her chain, and she said, what are you doing? And I said, you know, I'm broadcasting, and she just stood there and she listened to me and the same thing. She said, I want you on my show. You've been in the courtroom. I need the eyes and ears. Can you join our show? And so I'm thinking, do I still have the blazer? I go out and I sat on the director's chair and then that is really what started it all for me. Greta took me under her wind. She wanted me on her show every night, and I became part of her panel, and that is how I got into television.

A happy accident, a happy circumstance. I would say in a dreadful story that I was covering in radio, so I worked at I mentioned that I was from Sacramento, So I did ninety three Rock KRXQ. Then I did KFBK, which is the big powerhouse news radio station, and then I ended up moving to Los Angeles and working at KFI AM six forty, which is a monster radio station and one I'm proud that I've worked at all of these radio stations. So I was working at KFI, and I was covering an awful story in San Diego, and it was one of the first big trials that I covered for KFI of the David Westerfield trial, and he was a man who was accused of kidnapping his six year old neighbor out of her house while her parents were partying in the garage. Upscale, nice, beautiful neighborhood, did really bad things to her and left her out in the desert. So I was covering that story and I was asked to go down there. My car had been breaking down. Living in Los Angeles, driving to San Diego is a far drive. If anybody's done it, you know how hard that is and how hot it is. And I was in Los Angeles and I had told my boss. I said, my car is not going to make it back and forth, and my jeep is not making it. And he said, well, I can't really give you one of our news cars, which are the cars with all the bells and whistles. He said, but our sister station has a vehicle that I think that we could probably let you use because it's off season. I said, what is it. He goes, well, it's our sports station that does the Dodgers. I said, oh, that's cool, that's great. So he hands me the keys and I go out and it is a VW bug that is painted like a baseball. So I drive a baseball down to a murder trial in San Diego, which is a devastating story to tell, but I'm here. I am in a baseball. So I drive down and I'm doing my radio thing. I and when we do radio in the car, you know, I've got the headset on, I've got my tape decks that are plugged into the phones, and I'm talking about being in the courtroom and what I'm observing and all of the different forensics. There was a lot of bug evidence in that case. And I was talking about, you know, the nuances of watching the victim's family looking at the defendant, talking about the attorneys and the and the wild people that they were calling to the stand. And I got a knock on my baseball car door and it was somebody from Fox News who was a producer who had been listening to me on that long drive back and forth, and said, hey, we've found you because somebody said they're the radio reporters and the baseball we want you to come on our show today. And it was with Shepherd Smith, and I said, oh, well, I do radio and they said, well, it's fine, you just come. Well, you'll sit down, you'll do fifteen minutes. It'll be great. And I said, okay, And of course i'm radio. So I'm in, you know, a T shirt and shorts. My hair's in a ponytail. And my friend that was working at Court TV in the satellite truck next to me looked at me. He said, you gotta go to the mall. You gotta gos like you can't do this, and I said okay. So I ran across the street to Ann Taylor. I bought a blazer and he said, let me have my person put some makeup on your face. Let's do this. So I did some makeup. I was so nervous. I went out and I talked on television about the trial, but I was covering, and I was so relieved when it was over. I took that thing called an IFB, which I'd never used before, out of my ear. I was like going back to my baseball. And then I turned and they said same time tomorrow, and I said, well, I only have the one blazer, that's all I got. This isn't going to work out. But I started doing that and then the same sort of thing happened when we wrapped up that trial, and then the Scott Peterson case happened, and when Scott Peterson was first arrested, we had the preliminary hearing in Modesto before the trial was moved to Redwood City, and I was in the back of a van that we had made into a radio station, my engineer and I and I had the side panel open and news anchor Greta Ancestron, who I'm still friends with in Forever Indebted to Today, was watching me. And she was standing there in her suit in her chain, and she said, what are you doing? And I said, you know, I'm broadcasting, and she just stood there and she listened to me and the same thing. She said, I want you on my show. You've been in the courtroom. I need the eyes and ears. Can you join our show? And so I'm thinking, do I still have the blazer? I go out and I sat on the director's chair and then that is really what started it all for me. Greta took me under her wind. She wanted me on her show every night, and I became part of her panel, and that is how I got into television.

That's such a cool story. Did you feel just because you're so used to not having to make eye contact with a camera and knowing that they're looking at your face talking and everything.

That's such a cool story. Did you feel just because you're so used to not having to make eye contact with a camera and knowing that they're looking at your face talking and everything.

Was that weird for you to get used to it first?

Was that weird for you to get used to it first?

Yes, yes it was. But I mean I was so comfortable with Greta and Claudia Cowan, the reporter that was there, and the lawyers that I had been side by side working with, and really because it was not directly talking to camera, it was having a conversation. You just look. You just think of the camera being an extra person at the cocktail party, you know, like, I'm talking to Greta, but I want to talk to you. I want to bring you into the conversation. I keep talking to Greta and I might I might look back at the person at the cocktail party, which is the camera. That's how I always used to kind of phrase it when I was doing a panel, and you know, I was very nervous, for sure. I mean those first few weeks, you know, I had never done it before, and here it was the biggest story. We were watching it. I mean it was the biggest story not only in the United States, in the world. I Mean, we had people watching it all over the planet. We knew that once the verdict came, which was obviously much later, but people we had images from military bases around the world that wore to collude to this case. So it was a very very big deal and a great opportunity for me to be able to, you know, use this medium. And really when it all started, and I want to say this about the victims that we talk about and cover. When I first went to Modesto to cover the story in the first place, it was because I wanted to help. And that's something that we can do as reporters and anchors and podcasters is you know, spread the word, get the information out, get the pictures out. That's what I wanted to do in that case, was and then I felt being a part of Greta's panel and being a part of that channel at the time, you know, was a way that I could help do that.

Yes, yes it was. But I mean I was so comfortable with Greta and Claudia Cowan, the reporter that was there, and the lawyers that I had been side by side working with, and really because it was not directly talking to camera, it was having a conversation. You just look. You just think of the camera being an extra person at the cocktail party, you know, like, I'm talking to Greta, but I want to talk to you. I want to bring you into the conversation. I keep talking to Greta and I might I might look back at the person at the cocktail party, which is the camera. That's how I always used to kind of phrase it when I was doing a panel, and you know, I was very nervous, for sure. I mean those first few weeks, you know, I had never done it before, and here it was the biggest story. We were watching it. I mean it was the biggest story not only in the United States, in the world. I Mean, we had people watching it all over the planet. We knew that once the verdict came, which was obviously much later, but people we had images from military bases around the world that wore to collude to this case. So it was a very very big deal and a great opportunity for me to be able to, you know, use this medium. And really when it all started, and I want to say this about the victims that we talk about and cover. When I first went to Modesto to cover the story in the first place, it was because I wanted to help. And that's something that we can do as reporters and anchors and podcasters is you know, spread the word, get the information out, get the pictures out. That's what I wanted to do in that case, was and then I felt being a part of Greta's panel and being a part of that channel at the time, you know, was a way that I could help do that.

Yeah, and you've covered such amazing news stories, not amazing but also infamous murder cases throughout my entire life, like Hurricane Katrina and Michael Jackson molestation case, Lacy Peterson, as you've been talking about Long Island serial killer, Idaho murderers, Gabby Petito and yeah, sometimes you're there before. Like with Lacy Peterson, for example, you were reporting on her while she was missing, before her body was even found, so your reporting really could have helped find her body. And it's the same with Gabby Petito too, correct, that's right.

Yeah, and you've covered such amazing news stories, not amazing but also infamous murder cases throughout my entire life, like Hurricane Katrina and Michael Jackson molestation case, Lacy Peterson, as you've been talking about Long Island serial killer, Idaho murderers, Gabby Petito and yeah, sometimes you're there before. Like with Lacy Peterson, for example, you were reporting on her while she was missing, before her body was even found, so your reporting really could have helped find her body. And it's the same with Gabby Petito too, correct, that's right.

Yeah. I went down up to Modesto from Los Angeles, and being from Sacramento, Medesto is a very short drive and I'd asked my news director, I said, please let me go. There's a missing woman. It's Christmas. This I know this area. This is not your average missing person case. And we actually got in a pretty big fight about it, and he said, listen, the only reason that you care about this case is because you're from Sacramento. It's going to die down. It's going to be ja Is said. And I don't think so. I don't think so. You have to let me go. And we got into such a scrap about it. I said, I'll tell you what. I quit. I will will I will quit just for now. I will pause my employment here. I will go to Modesto and I will cover the story as a stringer, meaning I'll string it out to other radio stations and people who want the story. And then when I'm done, I'll come back. How about that? And I'll string for you. I'll string for Kfi. And he's like, you can go, fine, just go for a little bit and we'll see what happens. But that was the mission because she actually reminded me of my best friend who was pregnant at the time, who had another big, beautiful smile and beautiful husband, and like, none of it made sense and how could this be? And there's you know, and we've talked to Gabby Patito's parents about this. There's so many and they are doing such an amazing job of shining the light on other cases because you get this story that the media fa fixates on and people say, well, why was it lazy Peterson? It was, you know, for all the reasons that we've talked about. She yes, of course she was beautiful, but it was Christmas, she was eight and a half months pregnant, her husband was, you know, good looking. Alibi didn't make sense, Like there was a lot of reasons why just it worked that way. But in taking that kind of a story coverage and then putting it, you know, trying to give some of that light to others. Many people are very aware of that myself included that that type of coverage needs to go to other places as well. So it's something that we can do in the press. Get those numbers out, get those pictures out, and try and help the best we can.

Yeah. I went down up to Modesto from Los Angeles, and being from Sacramento, Medesto is a very short drive and I'd asked my news director, I said, please let me go. There's a missing woman. It's Christmas. This I know this area. This is not your average missing person case. And we actually got in a pretty big fight about it, and he said, listen, the only reason that you care about this case is because you're from Sacramento. It's going to die down. It's going to be ja Is said. And I don't think so. I don't think so. You have to let me go. And we got into such a scrap about it. I said, I'll tell you what. I quit. I will will I will quit just for now. I will pause my employment here. I will go to Modesto and I will cover the story as a stringer, meaning I'll string it out to other radio stations and people who want the story. And then when I'm done, I'll come back. How about that? And I'll string for you. I'll string for Kfi. And he's like, you can go, fine, just go for a little bit and we'll see what happens. But that was the mission because she actually reminded me of my best friend who was pregnant at the time, who had another big, beautiful smile and beautiful husband, and like, none of it made sense and how could this be? And there's you know, and we've talked to Gabby Patito's parents about this. There's so many and they are doing such an amazing job of shining the light on other cases because you get this story that the media fa fixates on and people say, well, why was it lazy Peterson? It was, you know, for all the reasons that we've talked about. She yes, of course she was beautiful, but it was Christmas, she was eight and a half months pregnant, her husband was, you know, good looking. Alibi didn't make sense, Like there was a lot of reasons why just it worked that way. But in taking that kind of a story coverage and then putting it, you know, trying to give some of that light to others. Many people are very aware of that myself included that that type of coverage needs to go to other places as well. So it's something that we can do in the press. Get those numbers out, get those pictures out, and try and help the best we can.

Out Of all these stories that you've covered over the years, was there any that you felt a particular like passion? I mean, obviously the Scott Peterson case you just mentioned. Were there any other ones or even that one, Like, what was it about them that just made you so connected to a particular story.

Out Of all these stories that you've covered over the years, was there any that you felt a particular like passion? I mean, obviously the Scott Peterson case you just mentioned. Were there any other ones or even that one, Like, what was it about them that just made you so connected to a particular story.

Well, the Scott Peterson one I mentioned, and that I call that one my twenty year story because I've been covering Scott Peterson since the day Lacy Peterson went missing. I'm still covering Peterson today. On July fifteenth, I will be back. I'm going home to see my family in Sacramento, as I do in every July, and I'm going to drive down to Redwood City and I will be at his hearing, which is one of the last three big hearings he has with the La Innocence Project. I will be back covering that case. It is a case that I will cover for the rest of my life. That I will I know the other stories that I have covered in great detail. The Long Island serial killer, which I'm deeply involved with right now, is a big one, but going back the Yosemite murders was a big one for me. That was Carrie Stainer, And if you remember, he was the handsome handyman at the motel at the Sea Lodge near the entrance of Yosemite. And there was a mom, her daughter, and her daughter's best friend that were having a beautiful summer and a beautiful trip together when tragedy struck and their bodies were found. And that was one that I covered extensively, going back to Yosemite to cover it while the investigation was ongoing. And that one was super creepy because, as it turned out, Carrie Stainer, who was the hotel handyman at the place where the girls were staying, had taken their wallets and driven to of all places, modesto and thrown their wallets out the door, out the window at a traffic stop in an area that was known to be just completely involved with meth activity meth heads. And I remember calling the FBI saying, I want to go cover this case, but I'm a little you know, what happened to these women was horrific, and he said, you know, look they're going to be we know who they are. It's meth heads. Don't worry about it. So off I went to the Cedar Lodge and I stayed there while Carrie Stanner was still working there and was roaming around the parking lot with my tape recorder as a radio reporter, talking to people. Do you feel safe and how has this affected you in your travel? And how you keep your family you know, safe, and how do you manage this part of the trip now that this horrible y ASSEMBI story has happened. So Carrie Stander was still there, we saw him in the parking lot. I mean, that was a crazy story and that trial and the sentencing, that legal part was very hard. And also the Connecticut home invasion case was another big case that I covered, and that was another story that has really stayed with me. People have asked me before, like what story keeps you up at night? What is it that you can't unsee? The Connecticut home invasion case of the Pettit family is one that has been very very hard for me to unsee pictures of what happened inside of that house and Lacy Peterson autopsy photos that were shown in court. I also can't unsee that.

Well, the Scott Peterson one I mentioned, and that I call that one my twenty year story because I've been covering Scott Peterson since the day Lacy Peterson went missing. I'm still covering Peterson today. On July fifteenth, I will be back. I'm going home to see my family in Sacramento, as I do in every July, and I'm going to drive down to Redwood City and I will be at his hearing, which is one of the last three big hearings he has with the La Innocence Project. I will be back covering that case. It is a case that I will cover for the rest of my life. That I will I know the other stories that I have covered in great detail. The Long Island serial killer, which I'm deeply involved with right now, is a big one, but going back the Yosemite murders was a big one for me. That was Carrie Stainer, And if you remember, he was the handsome handyman at the motel at the Sea Lodge near the entrance of Yosemite. And there was a mom, her daughter, and her daughter's best friend that were having a beautiful summer and a beautiful trip together when tragedy struck and their bodies were found. And that was one that I covered extensively, going back to Yosemite to cover it while the investigation was ongoing. And that one was super creepy because, as it turned out, Carrie Stainer, who was the hotel handyman at the place where the girls were staying, had taken their wallets and driven to of all places, modesto and thrown their wallets out the door, out the window at a traffic stop in an area that was known to be just completely involved with meth activity meth heads. And I remember calling the FBI saying, I want to go cover this case, but I'm a little you know, what happened to these women was horrific, and he said, you know, look they're going to be we know who they are. It's meth heads. Don't worry about it. So off I went to the Cedar Lodge and I stayed there while Carrie Stanner was still working there and was roaming around the parking lot with my tape recorder as a radio reporter, talking to people. Do you feel safe and how has this affected you in your travel? And how you keep your family you know, safe, and how do you manage this part of the trip now that this horrible y ASSEMBI story has happened. So Carrie Stander was still there, we saw him in the parking lot. I mean, that was a crazy story and that trial and the sentencing, that legal part was very hard. And also the Connecticut home invasion case was another big case that I covered, and that was another story that has really stayed with me. People have asked me before, like what story keeps you up at night? What is it that you can't unsee? The Connecticut home invasion case of the Pettit family is one that has been very very hard for me to unsee pictures of what happened inside of that house and Lacy Peterson autopsy photos that were shown in court. I also can't unsee that.

Yeah, that was one of the questions that I was going to ask you, is because I regular people that watch you on the news, they hear these stories, but they don't get to see all of the the information that comes with the case.

Yeah, that was one of the questions that I was going to ask you, is because I regular people that watch you on the news, they hear these stories, but they don't get to see all of the the information that comes with the case.

And you get special access to.

And you get special access to.

More not only more of the story, but crime scene photos and autopsy photos. And I know that even a person that's used to seeing them all the time, there's still some stuff that I see that I'm like, oh my god, that's that's really graphic or gruesome. I can't believe somebody did that to another person. So you're saying the Lacy Peterson one really really bothered you. And I'm not one hundred percent familiar with the Connecticut home invasion story. What was it about that that was so disturbing?

More not only more of the story, but crime scene photos and autopsy photos. And I know that even a person that's used to seeing them all the time, there's still some stuff that I see that I'm like, oh my god, that's that's really graphic or gruesome. I can't believe somebody did that to another person. So you're saying the Lacy Peterson one really really bothered you. And I'm not one hundred percent familiar with the Connecticut home invasion story. What was it about that that was so disturbing?

The Connecticut home invasion? And yes, and just to and put a on the Lacy Peterson story, that was very difficult because I was so deeply invested in that story, and because I was sitting behind her mother and her family members, her stepfather, her dad, her sister, her brother, and to watch them. They actually left the room, and the autopsy photos were shown in court, but the rest of us saw it and it was horrific. She was in the water for three months and as we know, she was missing her head and her hands and her feet, and so it was a pretty gruesome thing that the jurors. I mean, these are people that are chosen and they get the jury summons, and you know, they're affected for the rest of their lives. I said that when I was covering the Trump trial that when you're a juror, you are that juror for the rest of your life. It's the information that you've absorbed and obtained and that you think about. The Connecticut home invasion case was a story about a mother and her two daughters who had gone grocery shopping and they had gone back to their affluent neighborhood home, but they had been cased by these two bad guys, Steven Hayes and Joshua Comers, the jef Ski, and they followed the girls home and they're like, oh, that's a good looking house. Yeah, we're going to hit that house, and so they hit the house. The dad, doctor Pettitt, who survived the attack, was in the basement watching TV. They broken through an open door or window. They broken through the basement and they got in and they beat doctor Pettitt within an inch of his life, tied them up, went upstairs and tied the two daughters, the young daughters up to their beds, and did bad things to everybody, and took the mom to the bank, made her withdraw cash. They said, well, let everybody go. They got back to the house and the mom, missus Pettitt, did alert the bank and was terrified and said, you know, I need you to know what's going on. The police eventually came to the house, and the two bad guys panicked and they lit the house on fire with everybody tied up, and the cops didn't go in right away, and they were waiting for somebody that was higher up to come in and charge the house. And they waited too long and they died. And so and that was those inside scenes of that home and knowing what happened and being you know, knowing what happened with law enforcement. There were a lot of people that tried to do the right thing and it happens. But man, that was a really, really tough case. And Joshua Comor Zajevski, one of the suspects now convicted killer. I went to both trials. It was two trials for two men. I went to both trials. Then I went to both sentencing hearings. They were all it was all really long. It took a really long time to get through it all. But one of the things that the suspects did is it was revealed to get a diary, and so I actually, you know, I wish I had had an assistant or somebody, but I went through and I typed with those typing skills. I went through and I transcribed every single thing that he wrote in his diary about before the case, about how he would stock victims, how he would pick his homes that he was going to break into. He was primarily a burglar. And so I went through because it was like this guide. And so I forever tell people to close their shades at night, because what he would do is go around the neighborhoods and he said, everybody has their drapes open. It's like windows shopping. I get to go around and see what people have in their homes. And I watched them press their codes to their alarms, and you know, that was I immediately felt like I had to write that down and put that out into the world. So I transcribed his diary as as a warning to the public about how some of these people do those things.

The Connecticut home invasion? And yes, and just to and put a on the Lacy Peterson story, that was very difficult because I was so deeply invested in that story, and because I was sitting behind her mother and her family members, her stepfather, her dad, her sister, her brother, and to watch them. They actually left the room, and the autopsy photos were shown in court, but the rest of us saw it and it was horrific. She was in the water for three months and as we know, she was missing her head and her hands and her feet, and so it was a pretty gruesome thing that the jurors. I mean, these are people that are chosen and they get the jury summons, and you know, they're affected for the rest of their lives. I said that when I was covering the Trump trial that when you're a juror, you are that juror for the rest of your life. It's the information that you've absorbed and obtained and that you think about. The Connecticut home invasion case was a story about a mother and her two daughters who had gone grocery shopping and they had gone back to their affluent neighborhood home, but they had been cased by these two bad guys, Steven Hayes and Joshua Comers, the jef Ski, and they followed the girls home and they're like, oh, that's a good looking house. Yeah, we're going to hit that house, and so they hit the house. The dad, doctor Pettitt, who survived the attack, was in the basement watching TV. They broken through an open door or window. They broken through the basement and they got in and they beat doctor Pettitt within an inch of his life, tied them up, went upstairs and tied the two daughters, the young daughters up to their beds, and did bad things to everybody, and took the mom to the bank, made her withdraw cash. They said, well, let everybody go. They got back to the house and the mom, missus Pettitt, did alert the bank and was terrified and said, you know, I need you to know what's going on. The police eventually came to the house, and the two bad guys panicked and they lit the house on fire with everybody tied up, and the cops didn't go in right away, and they were waiting for somebody that was higher up to come in and charge the house. And they waited too long and they died. And so and that was those inside scenes of that home and knowing what happened and being you know, knowing what happened with law enforcement. There were a lot of people that tried to do the right thing and it happens. But man, that was a really, really tough case. And Joshua Comor Zajevski, one of the suspects now convicted killer. I went to both trials. It was two trials for two men. I went to both trials. Then I went to both sentencing hearings. They were all it was all really long. It took a really long time to get through it all. But one of the things that the suspects did is it was revealed to get a diary, and so I actually, you know, I wish I had had an assistant or somebody, but I went through and I typed with those typing skills. I went through and I transcribed every single thing that he wrote in his diary about before the case, about how he would stock victims, how he would pick his homes that he was going to break into. He was primarily a burglar. And so I went through because it was like this guide. And so I forever tell people to close their shades at night, because what he would do is go around the neighborhoods and he said, everybody has their drapes open. It's like windows shopping. I get to go around and see what people have in their homes. And I watched them press their codes to their alarms, and you know, that was I immediately felt like I had to write that down and put that out into the world. So I transcribed his diary as as a warning to the public about how some of these people do those things.

It's scary that that people like that also make friends, that they get together and do things like that. It's just you you could almost justify one person be having like really sick thoughts and and but then when they meet up together, it's it's just it really is scary, you know.

It's scary that that people like that also make friends, that they get together and do things like that. It's just you you could almost justify one person be having like really sick thoughts and and but then when they meet up together, it's it's just it really is scary, you know.

Yeah, it is. It is that's you know. And that's the thing. I mean, you want to believe in the good and everybody. But as we keep moving through these years together as humans, and we keep reporting on these stories, you know, that is why your mother tells you to call you when you get into the house, and it is why your mother tells you to lock the door behind you. You know, it is those are the reasons, because we know of the evil in the world, and you try to give your kids and your loved ones the you know, be cool, be careful. And I went up to Chico and a good friend of mine, I went and spent the night at her house and she I went down, I said, are we going to go lock the door. She goes, oh, we don't lock the doors around here. I was like, oh, getting and I snuck downstairs and I locked all the doors. Said, so, yeah, it's one of those things that it's it's important to share. You try not to get yourself too freaked out by the bad in the world, but it's important to keep the as I say, here in New York when you're on the subway, eyes up.

Yeah, it is. It is that's you know. And that's the thing. I mean, you want to believe in the good and everybody. But as we keep moving through these years together as humans, and we keep reporting on these stories, you know, that is why your mother tells you to call you when you get into the house, and it is why your mother tells you to lock the door behind you. You know, it is those are the reasons, because we know of the evil in the world, and you try to give your kids and your loved ones the you know, be cool, be careful. And I went up to Chico and a good friend of mine, I went and spent the night at her house and she I went down, I said, are we going to go lock the door. She goes, oh, we don't lock the doors around here. I was like, oh, getting and I snuck downstairs and I locked all the doors. Said, so, yeah, it's one of those things that it's it's important to share. You try not to get yourself too freaked out by the bad in the world, but it's important to keep the as I say, here in New York when you're on the subway, eyes up.

So you mentioned locking the doors and shutting the drapes. Is there anything else that you do at your house all the time that maybe even like your husband or your kid are like all right, mom, like relax, this isn't gonna happen.

So you mentioned locking the doors and shutting the drapes. Is there anything else that you do at your house all the time that maybe even like your husband or your kid are like all right, mom, like relax, this isn't gonna happen.

On the daily as a matter of fact.

On the daily as a matter of fact.

No.

No.

I mean, I don't draw, you know, I don't pull all the drapes, but I'm I'm mindful of it. I am mindful of that, and I do share, you know. But I like having And the thing that is terrible is I like having my shades open. I like looking at the twinkly lights across the street and the leaves as they turn color as the sun sets. And I do you know, I don't do it all the time, but I just I'm mindful of it. And not for nothing. That's the way the Yosemite case happened. Carol Sun and her daughters were in a motel room with their drapes open, and Carrie Stainer, the handyman, was walking around the parking lot and he was looking in the windows to see if there were any women that he could see without men. He admitted to that, he told Tud Rollins of CNN, and that was part of his confession, is that's how he picked his victims. Like he just walked around and when the windows are open and whatever, and it's terrible. I don't want to live like that, but I want to be mindful of it as well. So I would say locking doors. You know, we had a car broken into recently after about to lock the door. You know, just lock the doors, pull the drapes, be mindful of your surroundings. Those are most most of the things that I harp on a lot.

I mean, I don't draw, you know, I don't pull all the drapes, but I'm I'm mindful of it. I am mindful of that, and I do share, you know. But I like having And the thing that is terrible is I like having my shades open. I like looking at the twinkly lights across the street and the leaves as they turn color as the sun sets. And I do you know, I don't do it all the time, but I just I'm mindful of it. And not for nothing. That's the way the Yosemite case happened. Carol Sun and her daughters were in a motel room with their drapes open, and Carrie Stainer, the handyman, was walking around the parking lot and he was looking in the windows to see if there were any women that he could see without men. He admitted to that, he told Tud Rollins of CNN, and that was part of his confession, is that's how he picked his victims. Like he just walked around and when the windows are open and whatever, and it's terrible. I don't want to live like that, but I want to be mindful of it as well. So I would say locking doors. You know, we had a car broken into recently after about to lock the door. You know, just lock the doors, pull the drapes, be mindful of your surroundings. Those are most most of the things that I harp on a lot.

My dad always taught us not to lock our car doors because he said, if anybody's gonna want to come into your car, at least they won't break the window and you won't have to pay for that. But I'm like, but they'll steal I don't know that was always his theory. If you love this podcast, you are going to love the gross Room. There are thousands of videos, posts, photos of all different things that have to do with pathology. Plus there is no censorship, so we could talk about anything that we want to without how having to have the limitations with social media. You can join now for only five ninety nine a month, and this gives you access to all of the posts going back to twenty and nineteen. Join the grosser Room dot com today. The whole Idaho murder thing happened back in twenty twenty two. I was of course glued to that because it just was so bizarre the circumstances surrounding it. And it was even more bizarre that it seemed that for almost over a month they didn't have any suspects, although they did the entire time, we just didn't know about it.

My dad always taught us not to lock our car doors because he said, if anybody's gonna want to come into your car, at least they won't break the window and you won't have to pay for that. But I'm like, but they'll steal I don't know that was always his theory. If you love this podcast, you are going to love the gross Room. There are thousands of videos, posts, photos of all different things that have to do with pathology. Plus there is no censorship, so we could talk about anything that we want to without how having to have the limitations with social media. You can join now for only five ninety nine a month, and this gives you access to all of the posts going back to twenty and nineteen. Join the grosser Room dot com today. The whole Idaho murder thing happened back in twenty twenty two. I was of course glued to that because it just was so bizarre the circumstances surrounding it. And it was even more bizarre that it seemed that for almost over a month they didn't have any suspects, although they did the entire time, we just didn't know about it.

And I'll never forget.

And I'll never forget.

We were going to Florida during Christmas break to visit my father in law, and we were in the car and they I saw the news alert come through that said that they caught the suspect, and there was a lapse of like a half hour before they actually posted a picture of them. And when I saw Brian Coberger's picture. I'm not lying to you. His eyes I scared the shit out of me. There was just something about him that I was like, Oh my god. It bothered me so bad to the point where I had I actually had a hard time sleeping for the next.

We were going to Florida during Christmas break to visit my father in law, and we were in the car and they I saw the news alert come through that said that they caught the suspect, and there was a lapse of like a half hour before they actually posted a picture of them. And when I saw Brian Coberger's picture. I'm not lying to you. His eyes I scared the shit out of me. There was just something about him that I was like, Oh my god. It bothered me so bad to the point where I had I actually had a hard time sleeping for the next.

Two nights because it just was very scary to me.

Two nights because it just was very scary to me.

Have you ever had a person that you've covered that you got that vibe from or or because I know you interview a lot of people associated with these cases too, have you ever interviewed someone that really just like gave you the creeps or made you feel uneasy?

Have you ever had a person that you've covered that you got that vibe from or or because I know you interview a lot of people associated with these cases too, have you ever interviewed someone that really just like gave you the creeps or made you feel uneasy?

You know?

You know?

The one that I've recently interviewed was photos Dulos, And if you're familiar with that story, he was the estranged husband of a mother of five in New Canaan, Connecticut, Jennifer Dulos, whose body still today has not yet been found. He and I spent probably thirteen hours together in his very upscale home in Connecticut talking. He was everybody thought he did it, you know that It just it seemed as though he was the most likely suspect. They were going through a horrible divorce, and I had I had been trying to get that interview, and I had hung out at the courthouse and lurked and lurked and lurked and tried to get him to talk to me, and I finally did and we had a very long conversation. He was super standed offish in the beginning, but then warmed up. But I did talk to I mean, I sat from him, you know, need to knee. We were in in his parlor and we had had this really long interview set up, and I asked him point blade to his face, and it was probably the first time that I've done that. I've yelled down when prisoners or suspects are coming in through the sally port, when they're going into trial or going into a courtroom. I've been one of those reporters that yells out, you know, why did you do it? Or you know, what do you have to say for yourself. I've done that, But this is where it's just me and him with our crew, face to face, eyeball to eyeball, and I said, you know, you did you have anything to do with Jennifer's disappearance? Just looking at him and watching him watch me, and we just kind of had this moment and it was really disconcerting because he is very charming. Many people would describe him as a good looking man. And all of these cases, a lot of these cases I should say that I've covered, are the unsuspecting good looking man, right, you know, you go back to Ted Bundy. I mean, there's that's the part of the boogeyman that is so scary, or the person that can snap and do something so horrific. I mean, Jennifer Doulos was attacked in the garage of her home and lost a lot of blood, and he is believed to have attacked her in a way that she lost almost all of her blood. So it's horrendous to think when you look at somebody like, how could you do that? Did you do that? What did you do? How did you get rid of the body? You know? And that was what was going through my mind the whole time. And I'm talking and I don't know if you've ever had this this happened to you, where you're talking to somebody and you hear yourself saying the words, and you hear what they're saying, but your mind is going so fast because you know all the horrors of the story that you're talking about. And I just kept looking at him, thinking those hands that he's talking to you know, like, as he's talking with his hands, are these the hands that strangled Jennifer, that stabbed her? Are these the hands that did that? As I'm talking, as he's talking to me and we're mostly talking about financial records, that's what's going through my mind. And then after we were done, he asked if he could make us dinner in his home. He said, let me make you some pasta and I say, you know, I don't think not today, thank you. And then he called me on Christmas. It was I had interviewed him just a few days before Christmas. He called me on Christmas and he wanted to know how I was doing, and I said, how are you doing? And then he said where are you? And I said where are you? And we had this really and he said, I'm just looking for I just wanted to wish your family merry Christmas and tell you that I look forward to talking to you again when I can review more. I said okay, and then he killed himself the next month. Wow, So that was just crazy. I mean, he killed himself in the house that I had interviewed him at. So that one has really stuck with me.

The one that I've recently interviewed was photos Dulos, And if you're familiar with that story, he was the estranged husband of a mother of five in New Canaan, Connecticut, Jennifer Dulos, whose body still today has not yet been found. He and I spent probably thirteen hours together in his very upscale home in Connecticut talking. He was everybody thought he did it, you know that It just it seemed as though he was the most likely suspect. They were going through a horrible divorce, and I had I had been trying to get that interview, and I had hung out at the courthouse and lurked and lurked and lurked and tried to get him to talk to me, and I finally did and we had a very long conversation. He was super standed offish in the beginning, but then warmed up. But I did talk to I mean, I sat from him, you know, need to knee. We were in in his parlor and we had had this really long interview set up, and I asked him point blade to his face, and it was probably the first time that I've done that. I've yelled down when prisoners or suspects are coming in through the sally port, when they're going into trial or going into a courtroom. I've been one of those reporters that yells out, you know, why did you do it? Or you know, what do you have to say for yourself. I've done that, But this is where it's just me and him with our crew, face to face, eyeball to eyeball, and I said, you know, you did you have anything to do with Jennifer's disappearance? Just looking at him and watching him watch me, and we just kind of had this moment and it was really disconcerting because he is very charming. Many people would describe him as a good looking man. And all of these cases, a lot of these cases I should say that I've covered, are the unsuspecting good looking man, right, you know, you go back to Ted Bundy. I mean, there's that's the part of the boogeyman that is so scary, or the person that can snap and do something so horrific. I mean, Jennifer Doulos was attacked in the garage of her home and lost a lot of blood, and he is believed to have attacked her in a way that she lost almost all of her blood. So it's horrendous to think when you look at somebody like, how could you do that? Did you do that? What did you do? How did you get rid of the body? You know? And that was what was going through my mind the whole time. And I'm talking and I don't know if you've ever had this this happened to you, where you're talking to somebody and you hear yourself saying the words, and you hear what they're saying, but your mind is going so fast because you know all the horrors of the story that you're talking about. And I just kept looking at him, thinking those hands that he's talking to you know, like, as he's talking with his hands, are these the hands that strangled Jennifer, that stabbed her? Are these the hands that did that? As I'm talking, as he's talking to me and we're mostly talking about financial records, that's what's going through my mind. And then after we were done, he asked if he could make us dinner in his home. He said, let me make you some pasta and I say, you know, I don't think not today, thank you. And then he called me on Christmas. It was I had interviewed him just a few days before Christmas. He called me on Christmas and he wanted to know how I was doing, and I said, how are you doing? And then he said where are you? And I said where are you? And we had this really and he said, I'm just looking for I just wanted to wish your family merry Christmas and tell you that I look forward to talking to you again when I can review more. I said okay, and then he killed himself the next month. Wow, So that was just crazy. I mean, he killed himself in the house that I had interviewed him at. So that one has really stuck with me.

Yeah, I could see why.

Yeah, I could see why.

I know how you feel, though, because the first time I ever went to court with the medical examiner to watch this is when I was a student. I went to watch the medical examiner testify. H It was a very surreal feeling to be in the room with someone that I know killed somebody. I mean, it's it just I kept staring at the guy and just thinking like, oh my god, this guy killed a human. It just was really of different experience than listening to these stories because you're like you're seeing them in person and exactly thinking. Like the case that I was at was a manual strangulation case, and I did keep staring at his hands and saying like, this guy in his hands killed this woman and her whole family was on the other side of the room crying, and it just was it was just really surreal. So I understand that completely.