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Right now we've got Todd Nettleton joining us, the host of voice of the martyrs, radio chief of media relations and message integration for voice of the martyrs. And good morning to you, Todd.

Right now we've got Todd Nettleton joining us, the host of voice of the martyrs, radio chief of media relations and message integration for voice of the martyrs. And good morning to you, Todd.

Good morning. Thanks for having me.

Good morning. Thanks for having me.

Well, Todd, we love it when you come in and give us kind of an update on what's going on. And and last week the US Commission on International Religious Freedom. And I love it when they put it all together as a word. So that's Usaffe. They issued this annual report for 2024. I'm interested to see how that came about. Can you give us an update?

Well, Todd, we love it when you come in and give us kind of an update on what's going on. And and last week the US Commission on International Religious Freedom. And I love it when they put it all together as a word. So that's Usaffe. They issued this annual report for 2024. I'm interested to see how that came about. Can you give us an update?

Well, this is the report that is produced every year this law was passed. It's actually this year we're we're marking 25 years that this law has been in place, 25 years that they have been established as a commission. It's bipartisan, and there's people from both parties involved in it. And their job is to watch religious freedom around the world and every year to produce this report, which then makes recommendations to the State Department about what to do about it. So the law gives, uh, three levels, really of, of, uh, identifying people who persecute religious minorities. The top level is country of particular concern. So every year there's kind of some back and forth about, okay, well, which countries are really the worst? Which ones are we going to identify as countries of particular concern you serve? This commission is recommending three that are not currently on the list Afghanistan, India and Nigeria. Uh, now, you know, for those of us who particularly pay attention to Christian persecution, we look at that and we're like, well, how could those not be on the list? Like we know what's going on in Afghanistan. We know what's happening in India. How could they not be on the list? We'll see at the end of this year when the State Department produces their report, whether they actually take these recommendations or not. And Userve has one job. They just watch religious freedom. Obviously, when it gets to the State Department, they have lots of different priorities. They have to think about trade and they have to think about this and that. And the other thing in addition to religious freedom. So sometimes I think they make the decision, hey, you know, particularly in the case of India, hey, we we have so much trade with India. We want India to help us against China in that part of the world. Maybe we don't want to offend them by calling them out for persecuting Christians and Muslims. Maybe we don't want to call them a country of particular concern. In light of these other things we do want, we'll see what the State Department decides. But it's always interesting to read this report.

Well, this is the report that is produced every year this law was passed. It's actually this year we're we're marking 25 years that this law has been in place, 25 years that they have been established as a commission. It's bipartisan, and there's people from both parties involved in it. And their job is to watch religious freedom around the world and every year to produce this report, which then makes recommendations to the State Department about what to do about it. So the law gives, uh, three levels, really of, of, uh, identifying people who persecute religious minorities. The top level is country of particular concern. So every year there's kind of some back and forth about, okay, well, which countries are really the worst? Which ones are we going to identify as countries of particular concern you serve? This commission is recommending three that are not currently on the list Afghanistan, India and Nigeria. Uh, now, you know, for those of us who particularly pay attention to Christian persecution, we look at that and we're like, well, how could those not be on the list? Like we know what's going on in Afghanistan. We know what's happening in India. How could they not be on the list? We'll see at the end of this year when the State Department produces their report, whether they actually take these recommendations or not. And Userve has one job. They just watch religious freedom. Obviously, when it gets to the State Department, they have lots of different priorities. They have to think about trade and they have to think about this and that. And the other thing in addition to religious freedom. So sometimes I think they make the decision, hey, you know, particularly in the case of India, hey, we we have so much trade with India. We want India to help us against China in that part of the world. Maybe we don't want to offend them by calling them out for persecuting Christians and Muslims. Maybe we don't want to call them a country of particular concern. In light of these other things we do want, we'll see what the State Department decides. But it's always interesting to read this report.

Okay, Todd, if I could just ask a question here, it just seems like if there is an organization that's just supposed to report on these and the way that they've classified them is interesting to me anyways. But but if you get this list and then you have to like change the list because we kind of want to be friends with these people. So we don't necessarily want to tell people that they're actually doing it. It just seems like it's it's making this list almost worthless, you know, whereas there are some things that are going on that need to be addressed. And if we address them, maybe we'll see some changes locally and even globally.

Okay, Todd, if I could just ask a question here, it just seems like if there is an organization that's just supposed to report on these and the way that they've classified them is interesting to me anyways. But but if you get this list and then you have to like change the list because we kind of want to be friends with these people. So we don't necessarily want to tell people that they're actually doing it. It just seems like it's it's making this list almost worthless, you know, whereas there are some things that are going on that need to be addressed. And if we address them, maybe we'll see some changes locally and even globally.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, I, I sympathize with exactly what you're saying. It's like, hey, if if you say you have a list of the worst persecutors of religious minorities, but you don't have Afghanistan on it, where the Taliban is in charge of the whole country? Like what? You know, how good is your list if they're not on it? I think there is some of those questions. And, uh, I think that does come up. In fact, last year, uh, you surf the the commission that just produced this report after the State Department issued their report last year and it didn't include Afghanistan, it didn't include India. Userve actually called for congressional hearings. They were like, hey, Congress, you need to look into this. There's this is ludicrous that these countries are not on this list. Um, so there is some of that in Washington, DC. People asking those questions like, wait a minute, what what does this list mean if these countries are not on it? It is a challenge. And I am sympathetic to the State Department because like I say, they have lots of different fish to fry, so to speak, in, in the different conversations. The hope out of this is that every conversation that our representatives have with other countries, religious freedom, will be one part of that conversation, you know, and maybe they do talk about trade, and maybe they do talk about China. And but they can also talk about, hey, religious liberty is okay. It's actually good for your country to give people the freedom to choose what faith they want to follow. That should be part of the conversation as well.

You know, I, I sympathize with exactly what you're saying. It's like, hey, if if you say you have a list of the worst persecutors of religious minorities, but you don't have Afghanistan on it, where the Taliban is in charge of the whole country? Like what? You know, how good is your list if they're not on it? I think there is some of those questions. And, uh, I think that does come up. In fact, last year, uh, you surf the the commission that just produced this report after the State Department issued their report last year and it didn't include Afghanistan, it didn't include India. Userve actually called for congressional hearings. They were like, hey, Congress, you need to look into this. There's this is ludicrous that these countries are not on this list. Um, so there is some of that in Washington, DC. People asking those questions like, wait a minute, what what does this list mean if these countries are not on it? It is a challenge. And I am sympathetic to the State Department because like I say, they have lots of different fish to fry, so to speak, in, in the different conversations. The hope out of this is that every conversation that our representatives have with other countries, religious freedom, will be one part of that conversation, you know, and maybe they do talk about trade, and maybe they do talk about China. And but they can also talk about, hey, religious liberty is okay. It's actually good for your country to give people the freedom to choose what faith they want to follow. That should be part of the conversation as well.

Yeah. That. Yeah.

Yeah. That. Yeah.

Because I mean, politics obviously driving, you know, their hesitation. But having it reframed in that way may be helpful in getting truth to be able to reign.

Because I mean, politics obviously driving, you know, their hesitation. But having it reframed in that way may be helpful in getting truth to be able to reign.

So Amen.

So Amen.

Something we can pray for.

Something we can pray for.

Sure. And that's not just oh, that's one of several things that are happening right now. And I'm just wondering, uh, Todd, if you could just give us kind of a, a sneak peek into what's happening in southern Egypt. It just, uh, developed last month.

Sure. And that's not just oh, that's one of several things that are happening right now. And I'm just wondering, uh, Todd, if you could just give us kind of a, a sneak peek into what's happening in southern Egypt. It just, uh, developed last month.

Yeah. This is an interesting story, because when I came to work at Vom, which is now more than 25 years ago, Egypt would not allow new churches to be built. The Egyptian government, they wouldn't allow a permit for a new church. They wouldn't even allow an old church to be repaired. If something was wrong. You couldn't get permission to repair the church building. That has changed. And in fact, they are now allowing some churches to be built. However, you have to get your neighbors to be okay with that too. So there is a couple of villages in southern Egypt. The people, the. A Christian. People there were given permission to build a church building. They have the permit, but local Muslims are angry about it. And they say, we don't want a church in our community. And last month they actually kind of went on a rampage over two different nights in two different villages burning Christian homes, burning Christian owned businesses are really striking back against the Christians in their community. The frustrating part of this story is that the Christians kind of saw the temperature rising. They saw things heading in this direction and they called the police. They notified the authorities, hey, you know, things may be getting out of hand. We need some help here. And the police didn't show up. They didn't prevent these attacks from happening. And that's really the thing that is concerning because, again, the government said you could build a church. They said this was okay. But then when it came time to actually protect the people involved, they stepped back and let these attacks happen. And so for Christians in Egypt, they look at that and say, wait a minute. You know, we want to count on our government. We want you to protect us. We told you we needed protection and you didn't show up.

Yeah. This is an interesting story, because when I came to work at Vom, which is now more than 25 years ago, Egypt would not allow new churches to be built. The Egyptian government, they wouldn't allow a permit for a new church. They wouldn't even allow an old church to be repaired. If something was wrong. You couldn't get permission to repair the church building. That has changed. And in fact, they are now allowing some churches to be built. However, you have to get your neighbors to be okay with that too. So there is a couple of villages in southern Egypt. The people, the. A Christian. People there were given permission to build a church building. They have the permit, but local Muslims are angry about it. And they say, we don't want a church in our community. And last month they actually kind of went on a rampage over two different nights in two different villages burning Christian homes, burning Christian owned businesses are really striking back against the Christians in their community. The frustrating part of this story is that the Christians kind of saw the temperature rising. They saw things heading in this direction and they called the police. They notified the authorities, hey, you know, things may be getting out of hand. We need some help here. And the police didn't show up. They didn't prevent these attacks from happening. And that's really the thing that is concerning because, again, the government said you could build a church. They said this was okay. But then when it came time to actually protect the people involved, they stepped back and let these attacks happen. And so for Christians in Egypt, they look at that and say, wait a minute. You know, we want to count on our government. We want you to protect us. We told you we needed protection and you didn't show up.

Todd Nettleton is our guest. He's with voice of the martyrs, and he has a way of kind of illuminating what's happening around the world and the lives of believers, persecuted believers. And Todd, thank you again for being here with us. I wanted to ask you a little bit about Eritrea and for you to bring some people along who don't really know the 20 year saga. Can you kind of share that with us and then get us caught up to speed? What's going on now?

Todd Nettleton is our guest. He's with voice of the martyrs, and he has a way of kind of illuminating what's happening around the world and the lives of believers, persecuted believers. And Todd, thank you again for being here with us. I wanted to ask you a little bit about Eritrea and for you to bring some people along who don't really know the 20 year saga. Can you kind of share that with us and then get us caught up to speed? What's going on now?

Eritrea is a country in the northeast corner of the continent of Africa. Uh, 20 years ago, actually a little over that now, 2002, the government called in all the pastors of the evangelical churches in Eritrea and said, you're closed. Uh, you're literally it was on a Tuesday. They had had services on Sunday. They were called in on Tuesday. And the government said, your churches are closed. No more public worship, can't meet in your buildings. And so the church, literally from one Sunday to the next, went from above ground, meeting in their buildings to an underground church, meeting in homes, meeting in cell churches, really a secret church in that country. Unfortunately, many Christians have paid the price for that. And there are two. Actually, I met them when I was in Eritrea in the early 2000. I met both of these men May 23rd. It will be 23, in prison in Eritrea. They never had a trial. They never actually have never even been charged with a crime. They just got arrested. They disappeared into the prison system. And we are now 20 years later, they are still in prison. We are going to do some things around that date. And I would encourage people follow voice of the martyrs on social media. We're going to ask you to post some things on social media. And one of the things we're asking people to think about is, what would you have missed if you had been in prison the last 20 years? What family events would you have missed? What things would you have missed in your life if you had been in prison in the last 20 years? We're going to ask people on May 23rd to post about that on social media. And we're even going to ask you to tag the Eritrean embassy. We want them to see these. We want them to see, hey, there's a lot of people thinking about these pastors. About a year and a half ago, I got a picture, a text message with a picture of Pastor Haile, one of these pastors. I got a picture of his daughter graduating from university, and I got to tell you, I sat and looked at that picture and wept, thinking about all of the things that he had missed during the 20 years. Now that he has been in prison, including this university graduation of his daughter, and how proud he would have been to have been there with her that day, those are the kind of things we want people to post about on May 23rd. I hope that we're going to make the Eritrean government so embarrassed that they've imprisoned these men for the last 20 years, that they will set them free.

Eritrea is a country in the northeast corner of the continent of Africa. Uh, 20 years ago, actually a little over that now, 2002, the government called in all the pastors of the evangelical churches in Eritrea and said, you're closed. Uh, you're literally it was on a Tuesday. They had had services on Sunday. They were called in on Tuesday. And the government said, your churches are closed. No more public worship, can't meet in your buildings. And so the church, literally from one Sunday to the next, went from above ground, meeting in their buildings to an underground church, meeting in homes, meeting in cell churches, really a secret church in that country. Unfortunately, many Christians have paid the price for that. And there are two. Actually, I met them when I was in Eritrea in the early 2000. I met both of these men May 23rd. It will be 23, in prison in Eritrea. They never had a trial. They never actually have never even been charged with a crime. They just got arrested. They disappeared into the prison system. And we are now 20 years later, they are still in prison. We are going to do some things around that date. And I would encourage people follow voice of the martyrs on social media. We're going to ask you to post some things on social media. And one of the things we're asking people to think about is, what would you have missed if you had been in prison the last 20 years? What family events would you have missed? What things would you have missed in your life if you had been in prison in the last 20 years? We're going to ask people on May 23rd to post about that on social media. And we're even going to ask you to tag the Eritrean embassy. We want them to see these. We want them to see, hey, there's a lot of people thinking about these pastors. About a year and a half ago, I got a picture, a text message with a picture of Pastor Haile, one of these pastors. I got a picture of his daughter graduating from university, and I got to tell you, I sat and looked at that picture and wept, thinking about all of the things that he had missed during the 20 years. Now that he has been in prison, including this university graduation of his daughter, and how proud he would have been to have been there with her that day, those are the kind of things we want people to post about on May 23rd. I hope that we're going to make the Eritrean government so embarrassed that they've imprisoned these men for the last 20 years, that they will set them free.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for that. And, Todd, if I could ask, uh, just a follow up question. I know that you did something similar last year just to try and really shine some light on what they've been doing, and they did release some prisoners, but these two pastors were not part of that. Is this kind of an extension of that campaign to truly put some pressure on them to, to release them once and for all?

Thank you so much for that. And, Todd, if I could ask, uh, just a follow up question. I know that you did something similar last year just to try and really shine some light on what they've been doing, and they did release some prisoners, but these two pastors were not part of that. Is this kind of an extension of that campaign to truly put some pressure on them to, to release them once and for all?

It is an extension of that. You mentioned that last year was their 7,000th day in prison. And so we did a social media campaign around that. Uh, less than a week later, 13 Eritrean Christians were released from prison. And I talked with our field leader who oversees our work in Eritrea. And he said, you know, there's no way the government is going to say that those two things are related, but there's no way that they're not related. So so he said that that did make a difference. And all 13 of those Christians had been in prison for at least ten years. So they were not like people they picked up the week before. They had been in prison for a long period of time. Our hope is this time we do get past your high. We do get. Doctor King flew out, as well as maybe many others. There are currently over 300 Christians in prison in Eritrea. Um, we would love to see all 300 of them released, but even if it was ten, even if it was 12, that would be a victory in this situation.

It is an extension of that. You mentioned that last year was their 7,000th day in prison. And so we did a social media campaign around that. Uh, less than a week later, 13 Eritrean Christians were released from prison. And I talked with our field leader who oversees our work in Eritrea. And he said, you know, there's no way the government is going to say that those two things are related, but there's no way that they're not related. So so he said that that did make a difference. And all 13 of those Christians had been in prison for at least ten years. So they were not like people they picked up the week before. They had been in prison for a long period of time. Our hope is this time we do get past your high. We do get. Doctor King flew out, as well as maybe many others. There are currently over 300 Christians in prison in Eritrea. Um, we would love to see all 300 of them released, but even if it was ten, even if it was 12, that would be a victory in this situation.

Okay, I, I would love to be a part of this, and I know many listeners would as well. Again, how how would they hear more.

Okay, I, I would love to be a part of this, and I know many listeners would as well. Again, how how would they hear more.

If you're on the voice of the martyrs mailing list, you're going to get an email. So watch for that email, but also follow the voice of the martyrs on social media. It's Vom underscore USA or the voice of the martyrs USA. We're on X, we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram. Uh, follow us and be ready for May 23rd.

If you're on the voice of the martyrs mailing list, you're going to get an email. So watch for that email, but also follow the voice of the martyrs on social media. It's Vom underscore USA or the voice of the martyrs USA. We're on X, we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram. Uh, follow us and be ready for May 23rd.

We also want to end with this story. It's a it's a great story of God at work, of healing. Can you share that with us about a woman in Iran?

We also want to end with this story. It's a it's a great story of God at work, of healing. Can you share that with us about a woman in Iran?

Yeah, this is an encouraging story. So this is an Iranian Christian woman. She actually had to flee from Iran. So she is now in a secondary country. But she got very, very sick. Uh, in fact, her doctor basically told her you're going to die. And so they went for a second opinion, and the second doctor said, well, you have a 3% chance of living, so you have a 97% chance of dying. Her family, her Christian family really didn't accept that. They got around her hospital bed, and they began to pray every day that God would heal their mom, their wife, and the the Muslim doctors and nurses are watching them gather every day and pray over her. Well, three months later, she is conscious. She is writing, she is speaking, she is on her way to being well. And these Muslim doctors and nurses are like, well, I need to figure out what you guys did, because she only had a 3% chance of living. And now here she is talking and writing. Well, you know, who did you pray to? And several of those nurses have actually asked for Bibles from this family. Uh, and one of the nurses, I love what she said, she said, I want to know more about the God who brought miracles to our hospital. That's the God I want to know more about. So this family, being bold in prayer, bold in asking, has been an incredible witness in that mostly Muslim hospital.

Yeah, this is an encouraging story. So this is an Iranian Christian woman. She actually had to flee from Iran. So she is now in a secondary country. But she got very, very sick. Uh, in fact, her doctor basically told her you're going to die. And so they went for a second opinion, and the second doctor said, well, you have a 3% chance of living, so you have a 97% chance of dying. Her family, her Christian family really didn't accept that. They got around her hospital bed, and they began to pray every day that God would heal their mom, their wife, and the the Muslim doctors and nurses are watching them gather every day and pray over her. Well, three months later, she is conscious. She is writing, she is speaking, she is on her way to being well. And these Muslim doctors and nurses are like, well, I need to figure out what you guys did, because she only had a 3% chance of living. And now here she is talking and writing. Well, you know, who did you pray to? And several of those nurses have actually asked for Bibles from this family. Uh, and one of the nurses, I love what she said, she said, I want to know more about the God who brought miracles to our hospital. That's the God I want to know more about. So this family, being bold in prayer, bold in asking, has been an incredible witness in that mostly Muslim hospital.

Amen.

Amen.

And just that's a great story to to complete our time talking with you about, Todd, because we have to remember that in the midst of the persecution, the suffering, the injustice, God is still at work and and Iran is a place we have to continue to pray for because people are seeking in that country.

And just that's a great story to to complete our time talking with you about, Todd, because we have to remember that in the midst of the persecution, the suffering, the injustice, God is still at work and and Iran is a place we have to continue to pray for because people are seeking in that country.

They are hungry for the gospel. They're hungry for a God who hears and answers prayer. And when Christians demonstrate that they they want to know more, they're asking for more information.

They are hungry for the gospel. They're hungry for a God who hears and answers prayer. And when Christians demonstrate that they they want to know more, they're asking for more information.

Okay, Todd, if I could ask you one last question as we're wrapping up our time with you. Uh, you've shared with us, uh, for quite some time. Just story after story after story of seeing the power of the Holy Spirit move in response to prayer. And we're not seeing it as prevalent here in the West, here in our country. And I'm just wondering what your thoughts are as to maybe why we're not seeing, um, God move in response to prayers like this in regards to healing, uh, here in our country.

Okay, Todd, if I could ask you one last question as we're wrapping up our time with you. Uh, you've shared with us, uh, for quite some time. Just story after story after story of seeing the power of the Holy Spirit move in response to prayer. And we're not seeing it as prevalent here in the West, here in our country. And I'm just wondering what your thoughts are as to maybe why we're not seeing, um, God move in response to prayers like this in regards to healing, uh, here in our country.

Uh, you're you're trying to get me into trouble.

Uh, you're you're trying to get me into trouble.

I am, but you know the reason I have my own idea on this topic. I just wanted to just hear your thoughts. It's no indictment. It's just what you're seeing in these two different, um, countries.

I am, but you know the reason I have my own idea on this topic. I just wanted to just hear your thoughts. It's no indictment. It's just what you're seeing in these two different, um, countries.

Here's the thing I think about. Because I think about this, too, like, well, like, why don't I see these kind of answers to my prayers? I think there is a desperation in hostile and restricted nations that brings a different level of intensity to the prayers. And I think of, you know, as Americans, most of us are dependent on our paycheck, and it's going to come on the first and the 15th, and that's how we're going to survive this month. But when Christians living in you think about Afghanistan, a Christian, and Afghanistan, they're going to survive this month because God is going to help them every single day. He's going to protect them. He's going to give them guidance on who to talk to and who not to talk to, and whether to turn left or right so that they avoid the checkpoint and avoid asking, you know, answering hard questions. They live in that sort of daily dependence on God, like God. If you don't show up right now, I'm not going to get through this. Most of us don't live in that kind of desperateness for God to move and for God to work. And I think, I think we need a little more of that. We need to understand God. If you don't show up in this situation, I'm not going to make it. I'm not going to I'm not going to handle this right. Please, Lord, I'm counting on you to show up. I think that produces a different kind of prayer. And I think somehow those prayers, I think God hears that sense of desperation, and he hears that total dependence on him, and he responds.

Here's the thing I think about. Because I think about this, too, like, well, like, why don't I see these kind of answers to my prayers? I think there is a desperation in hostile and restricted nations that brings a different level of intensity to the prayers. And I think of, you know, as Americans, most of us are dependent on our paycheck, and it's going to come on the first and the 15th, and that's how we're going to survive this month. But when Christians living in you think about Afghanistan, a Christian, and Afghanistan, they're going to survive this month because God is going to help them every single day. He's going to protect them. He's going to give them guidance on who to talk to and who not to talk to, and whether to turn left or right so that they avoid the checkpoint and avoid asking, you know, answering hard questions. They live in that sort of daily dependence on God, like God. If you don't show up right now, I'm not going to get through this. Most of us don't live in that kind of desperateness for God to move and for God to work. And I think, I think we need a little more of that. We need to understand God. If you don't show up in this situation, I'm not going to make it. I'm not going to I'm not going to handle this right. Please, Lord, I'm counting on you to show up. I think that produces a different kind of prayer. And I think somehow those prayers, I think God hears that sense of desperation, and he hears that total dependence on him, and he responds.