Corn. It is such a huge issue in our culture today. But not just that. It's a huge issue in the church and we just really need to help people have a philosophy about it, a theology maybe about their sexuality and how to overcome it when it becomes addictive.

Corn. It is such a huge issue in our culture today. But not just that. It's a huge issue in the church and we just really need to help people have a philosophy about it, a theology maybe about their sexuality and how to overcome it when it becomes addictive.

Yeah, and I think that's the issue there. It's an addiction that is gripping and it's hard to break through with that. And Rob, what are your thoughts on porn and ways that it can be combated within the church?

Yeah, and I think that's the issue there. It's an addiction that is gripping and it's hard to break through with that. And Rob, what are your thoughts on porn and ways that it can be combated within the church?

Well, it is such a huge problem. You know what? If I told you that 75% of Christian men report consuming porn? 75%? And if that's not shocking enough, 40% of Christian women are viewing porn as well. So we're really kind of out of the box on this in the church. And yet only 10% of Christians in the US say their church offers any help for that.

Well, it is such a huge problem. You know what? If I told you that 75% of Christian men report consuming porn? 75%? And if that's not shocking enough, 40% of Christian women are viewing porn as well. So we're really kind of out of the box on this in the church. And yet only 10% of Christians in the US say their church offers any help for that.

Okay, wait a second, Rob. Let me dive into that here in just a moment. Are you hearing the voice of Rob Jackson? He's a licensed counselor with focus on the family. He's helped individuals recover from sex addiction since 1991. So you are well versed in this, Rob. And you say that 75% of men, 40% of women have experienced porn within the church, but only 10% of churches actually have programming for this. That seems a little lopsided to me.

Okay, wait a second, Rob. Let me dive into that here in just a moment. Are you hearing the voice of Rob Jackson? He's a licensed counselor with focus on the family. He's helped individuals recover from sex addiction since 1991. So you are well versed in this, Rob. And you say that 75% of men, 40% of women have experienced porn within the church, but only 10% of churches actually have programming for this. That seems a little lopsided to me.

Well, it's frightening and it's lopsided, but it's very, very real. You know, this is a problem that is impacting every family. It is a huge epidemic. And once in a while you hear these breakout stories where someone got caught, you know, and then there's devastation in the marriage, devastation into one's ministry, sometimes to one to one's finances and so forth. And so we're really like, you know, an ostrich with the head in the sand. But it's time we get our heads out and look and see and start getting real about this topic.

Well, it's frightening and it's lopsided, but it's very, very real. You know, this is a problem that is impacting every family. It is a huge epidemic. And once in a while you hear these breakout stories where someone got caught, you know, and then there's devastation in the marriage, devastation into one's ministry, sometimes to one to one's finances and so forth. And so we're really like, you know, an ostrich with the head in the sand. But it's time we get our heads out and look and see and start getting real about this topic.

Well, Rob, a lot of people are even saying now because of the change in our culture, that they don't see what's wrong with it. So I want to ask you, what's wrong with it?

Well, Rob, a lot of people are even saying now because of the change in our culture, that they don't see what's wrong with it. So I want to ask you, what's wrong with it?

Well, it absolutely defies God's best plan for human sexuality. You know, God is a creator of male and female. And the first thing he said was, go be fruitful. And so, you know, God is absolutely about a healthy sexuality that is procreational. And pornography comes in and robs the the dignity of both the male and the female. Pornography does not produce life. It produces death. Pornography does not build up one's self-worth. It lowers one's sense of self. It degrades the self. And then it really makes the person, uh, somewhat of a of a robot because of the addictive nature of today's pornography and how it impacts the brain.

Well, it absolutely defies God's best plan for human sexuality. You know, God is a creator of male and female. And the first thing he said was, go be fruitful. And so, you know, God is absolutely about a healthy sexuality that is procreational. And pornography comes in and robs the the dignity of both the male and the female. Pornography does not produce life. It produces death. Pornography does not build up one's self-worth. It lowers one's sense of self. It degrades the self. And then it really makes the person, uh, somewhat of a of a robot because of the addictive nature of today's pornography and how it impacts the brain.

This is mornings with Tom and Toby. Rob Jackson is our guest. He's with focus on the family, and we're dealing with this persistent problem that is raising its head in the church. And that's pornography and Christians and how they deal with it.

This is mornings with Tom and Toby. Rob Jackson is our guest. He's with focus on the family, and we're dealing with this persistent problem that is raising its head in the church. And that's pornography and Christians and how they deal with it.

And so, Rob, you were giving us some stats about how the majority, basically, of men who attend church are watching, and almost half of women who attend church are watching porn or struggling with it on some level. And yet very few churches have a program. So my question is, how do you form programs to help people come out of this and walk in the spirit in this area of their lives, um, in a way that people actually will take advantage because sometimes people will present, hey, this is some help for something. um, you know, could be on pornography or sexual addiction or even post abortion, and people don't come because they're embarrassed.

And so, Rob, you were giving us some stats about how the majority, basically, of men who attend church are watching, and almost half of women who attend church are watching porn or struggling with it on some level. And yet very few churches have a program. So my question is, how do you form programs to help people come out of this and walk in the spirit in this area of their lives, um, in a way that people actually will take advantage because sometimes people will present, hey, this is some help for something. um, you know, could be on pornography or sexual addiction or even post abortion, and people don't come because they're embarrassed.

Correct. Well, we have to back up and actually start with the fact that the statistics for pastors and their use of pornography, that's not good either. After all, they're human beings and they struggle also. So if a church were to move out on this topic, the elders, the leadership would have to really look at themselves and get very transparent among themselves and see, how are we going to do this? You know, at what level do we need individual help and what level might we be accountable to each other, and what would that look like? And then how would we begin to really factor in the spiritual formation as a foundation for talking about overcoming pornography? You know, if you start talking about overcoming pornography. That's like trying to to build a house at the level of the roof to start with. Let's get down to the foundation. Let's talk about spiritual formation in Christ first. And so it's a spiritual problem. It's a psychological problem. It's a behavioral problem. It's a relational and social problem. We're going to have to cover all of that. And churches could begin by, you know, featuring things on their website for help. They could have books, you know, in their library. They could have book reviews. Those that are speaking from the pulpit could begin to open up the topic just a little bit. Just a little bit. I mean, clearly the Scripture teaches about the problem of lust. And so whether we use the word pornography or not, we know that lust is a problem to the human spirit.

Correct. Well, we have to back up and actually start with the fact that the statistics for pastors and their use of pornography, that's not good either. After all, they're human beings and they struggle also. So if a church were to move out on this topic, the elders, the leadership would have to really look at themselves and get very transparent among themselves and see, how are we going to do this? You know, at what level do we need individual help and what level might we be accountable to each other, and what would that look like? And then how would we begin to really factor in the spiritual formation as a foundation for talking about overcoming pornography? You know, if you start talking about overcoming pornography. That's like trying to to build a house at the level of the roof to start with. Let's get down to the foundation. Let's talk about spiritual formation in Christ first. And so it's a spiritual problem. It's a psychological problem. It's a behavioral problem. It's a relational and social problem. We're going to have to cover all of that. And churches could begin by, you know, featuring things on their website for help. They could have books, you know, in their library. They could have book reviews. Those that are speaking from the pulpit could begin to open up the topic just a little bit. Just a little bit. I mean, clearly the Scripture teaches about the problem of lust. And so whether we use the word pornography or not, we know that lust is a problem to the human spirit.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. Rob, thank you so much for just really unpacking this for us. What it could look like programmatically within the church. And you and I were chatting backstage with Toby and just said, it seems like as programs start rising up in the church, it becomes more sin management than overcoming through the spirit. How do we get from one to the other?

Yeah, you're absolutely right. Rob, thank you so much for just really unpacking this for us. What it could look like programmatically within the church. And you and I were chatting backstage with Toby and just said, it seems like as programs start rising up in the church, it becomes more sin management than overcoming through the spirit. How do we get from one to the other?

Well, so many times, you know, men are told if you get a filter for your computer and an accountability partner, you're good to go. Well, think about this. While those are valuable and I'm certainly not against them, they're external to the heart. Put a filter on your heart, right. Be an accountability to the Holy Spirit. Okay, now you can also talk about putting a filter on your phone and being accountable to a few men. But if you start on this at the external, ignoring the internal, you'll forever be chasing recovery.

Well, so many times, you know, men are told if you get a filter for your computer and an accountability partner, you're good to go. Well, think about this. While those are valuable and I'm certainly not against them, they're external to the heart. Put a filter on your heart, right. Be an accountability to the Holy Spirit. Okay, now you can also talk about putting a filter on your phone and being accountable to a few men. But if you start on this at the external, ignoring the internal, you'll forever be chasing recovery.

This is mornings with Tom and Toby chatting with Rob Jackson, with focus on the family, looking at ways to overcome the addiction to pornography.

This is mornings with Tom and Toby chatting with Rob Jackson, with focus on the family, looking at ways to overcome the addiction to pornography.

And so we were just continuing our discussion just a moment ago, Rob, about all these different aspects. And you had some really good insight as to, you know, sometimes we want that instantaneous deliverance, but deliverance, you still need to walk it out right now. And there's several components to this.

And so we were just continuing our discussion just a moment ago, Rob, about all these different aspects. And you had some really good insight as to, you know, sometimes we want that instantaneous deliverance, but deliverance, you still need to walk it out right now. And there's several components to this.

Yeah. And you know, two words that I would use is repentance and recovery. So we're continually repenting and we're continually recovering. And I think that becomes our ongoing sanctification. You know, we've got, um, bad memories, if you will, before we meet the Lord Jesus. And after we have been redeemed, we still have some bad memories. He doesn't zap them. You know, we've got some real problems of character before our conversion. And we still do this, that old man that we live with. And so we have to look to the spirit and really present ourselves to him. And I found in my own life. I can't surrender to the Lord what I don't know about me. And so if I've been living in denial all this time. Part of deliverance is opening up to the truth about how I have fallen. Uh, in view of Christ.

Yeah. And you know, two words that I would use is repentance and recovery. So we're continually repenting and we're continually recovering. And I think that becomes our ongoing sanctification. You know, we've got, um, bad memories, if you will, before we meet the Lord Jesus. And after we have been redeemed, we still have some bad memories. He doesn't zap them. You know, we've got some real problems of character before our conversion. And we still do this, that old man that we live with. And so we have to look to the spirit and really present ourselves to him. And I found in my own life. I can't surrender to the Lord what I don't know about me. And so if I've been living in denial all this time. Part of deliverance is opening up to the truth about how I have fallen. Uh, in view of Christ.

Okay, so starting at that point, I mean, really coming to the fact where I realized, let me go, basic Christianity. You know, I am a sinner in need of a Savior. If I don't get to that point, there's no way I'm going to receive the redemption that's available to me in Christ. Nor can I tap into the power that's available to me through the Holy Spirit to overcome this addiction in my life.

Okay, so starting at that point, I mean, really coming to the fact where I realized, let me go, basic Christianity. You know, I am a sinner in need of a Savior. If I don't get to that point, there's no way I'm going to receive the redemption that's available to me in Christ. Nor can I tap into the power that's available to me through the Holy Spirit to overcome this addiction in my life.

Well, see, Tom, that's perfect, because my concern is most of the people I speak with, Christians, you know, included, are talking more about brokenness than sinfulness. Now it's both. But if you talk about brokenness before you talk about sinfulness, you know you're trying to tag home base, but you've skipped first, second, and third.

Well, see, Tom, that's perfect, because my concern is most of the people I speak with, Christians, you know, included, are talking more about brokenness than sinfulness. Now it's both. But if you talk about brokenness before you talk about sinfulness, you know you're trying to tag home base, but you've skipped first, second, and third.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay. So when we talk about brokenness, mainly our maybe sorrow over our sin, but talking about our sinfulness, we need to actually address aggressively address the sin.

Okay. So when we talk about brokenness, mainly our maybe sorrow over our sin, but talking about our sinfulness, we need to actually address aggressively address the sin.

Well, yes. And but when people talk about the brokenness, you know, I don't make light of this. It's very, very genuine. But they'll often go back to something that happened in their childhood. You know, they'll talk about a wound. They'll talk about a trauma. And these things are very, very legitimate. But they're not cause and effect. They're correlations. And so we have bad experiences. And they do become associated with reacting to the pain, but they don't cause the acting out. That's a choice of your will. Now let me be cautious. Okay. A boy or a girl finds pornography for the first time. That's accidental. That's not on them. That's Horrible. There's probably some demonic spiritual things at work that they would even come into contact with it in the first place. But even at ten or 11 or 12, we have a human free will. And so we start going back to it. Now I'm still thinking that child is is somewhat like a sexual abuse victim for being with the pornography. But as they continue to grow, grow up spiritually, grow up mentally, grow up physically, if they continue to repeat all of this, it begins to worm its way into a real addiction. And then it starts getting compartmentalized. And then they can think about how they're a Christian. And yet privately, this is going on and it has just become the new normal.

Well, yes. And but when people talk about the brokenness, you know, I don't make light of this. It's very, very genuine. But they'll often go back to something that happened in their childhood. You know, they'll talk about a wound. They'll talk about a trauma. And these things are very, very legitimate. But they're not cause and effect. They're correlations. And so we have bad experiences. And they do become associated with reacting to the pain, but they don't cause the acting out. That's a choice of your will. Now let me be cautious. Okay. A boy or a girl finds pornography for the first time. That's accidental. That's not on them. That's Horrible. There's probably some demonic spiritual things at work that they would even come into contact with it in the first place. But even at ten or 11 or 12, we have a human free will. And so we start going back to it. Now I'm still thinking that child is is somewhat like a sexual abuse victim for being with the pornography. But as they continue to grow, grow up spiritually, grow up mentally, grow up physically, if they continue to repeat all of this, it begins to worm its way into a real addiction. And then it starts getting compartmentalized. And then they can think about how they're a Christian. And yet privately, this is going on and it has just become the new normal.

Okay, Rob, you've been just really peeling this onion layer by layer, and it seems like this onion ain't done being peeled. You've just really scratched the surface of some things that that we could really do to combat this if someone is struggling with it right now. Um, going back to the basics of who we are in Christ, trying to find that foundation once again, and this is not going to be our last conversation on this. Rob, we're going to have you back. We're going to talk a little bit more about this. And the next time that you're with us, Rob, we would love to open up the phones and have people share just some struggles and opportunities to maybe grow and have victory in this area. And would you be open for that?

Okay, Rob, you've been just really peeling this onion layer by layer, and it seems like this onion ain't done being peeled. You've just really scratched the surface of some things that that we could really do to combat this if someone is struggling with it right now. Um, going back to the basics of who we are in Christ, trying to find that foundation once again, and this is not going to be our last conversation on this. Rob, we're going to have you back. We're going to talk a little bit more about this. And the next time that you're with us, Rob, we would love to open up the phones and have people share just some struggles and opportunities to maybe grow and have victory in this area. And would you be open for that?

I'd love that. Absolutely.

I'd love that. Absolutely.

And before you leave, can you share a couple of resources?

And before you leave, can you share a couple of resources?

Yeah. For sure. We'd love for your listeners to give us a call at focus on the family. That's 800. The letter A, the word family. We're there. Uh, you know, most of the day from eight in the morning till late at night taking phone calls. And so 800 a family, if you're online, you can go to focus on the family com slash pornography. You can complete a form and then someone will give you a call.

Yeah. For sure. We'd love for your listeners to give us a call at focus on the family. That's 800. The letter A, the word family. We're there. Uh, you know, most of the day from eight in the morning till late at night taking phone calls. And so 800 a family, if you're online, you can go to focus on the family com slash pornography. You can complete a form and then someone will give you a call.