Lithium iron batteries. Why do we use them? Well, they last longer, they're the latest generation in batteries, but they're also causing more than ten thousand fires a year In Australia. The owners of an Adelaide Hills battery business have told of the devastation after they were forced to watch helplessly as their workshop was ravaged by fire sparked by a lithium iron battery explosion, and to make matters worse, the prohibitive cost of ensuring such a business against fire meant they weren't covered. It's a sad story, but it is a salutary reminder of lithium batteries and the precautions we need to take. Joining me and ow is doctor Matthew Priestley from the University of New South Wales. Doctor, good morning, thanks for being.

Lithium iron batteries. Why do we use them? Well, they last longer, they're the latest generation in batteries, but they're also causing more than ten thousand fires a year In Australia. The owners of an Adelaide Hills battery business have told of the devastation after they were forced to watch helplessly as their workshop was ravaged by fire sparked by a lithium iron battery explosion, and to make matters worse, the prohibitive cost of ensuring such a business against fire meant they weren't covered. It's a sad story, but it is a salutary reminder of lithium batteries and the precautions we need to take. Joining me and ow is doctor Matthew Priestley from the University of New South Wales. Doctor, good morning, thanks for being.

With us, Thank you for having me tell.

With us, Thank you for having me tell.

Us about lithium ion batteries. On the one hand, they're great. On the other hand, do we need to be all that careful?

Us about lithium ion batteries. On the one hand, they're great. On the other hand, do we need to be all that careful?

Yes, we do need to be careful when using them. So lithium ion batteries are the most powered, dense portable battery on the market right now. As a matter of fact, without lithium ion batteries, we simply wouldn't be able to use things like our phone devices the way that we do at the moments. They're very critical to our lifestyle at the moment. One of the challenges is there's twofold here. One of them is training, so training people on the risks associated to using lithium ion batteries. So we're well aware of the risks of things like petrol, so we know we shouldn't light a flame while we're putting petrol into our cars. We know that would be an exceptionally dangerous.

Yes, we do need to be careful when using them. So lithium ion batteries are the most powered, dense portable battery on the market right now. As a matter of fact, without lithium ion batteries, we simply wouldn't be able to use things like our phone devices the way that we do at the moments. They're very critical to our lifestyle at the moment. One of the challenges is there's twofold here. One of them is training, so training people on the risks associated to using lithium ion batteries. So we're well aware of the risks of things like petrol, so we know we shouldn't light a flame while we're putting petrol into our cars. We know that would be an exceptionally dangerous.

Thing to do.

Thing to do.

But we're not so aware of the risks of lizimion batteries. And it's because people seem to think they're very similar to say like a double a battery that you put in your remotes and for television remote and they're very different. And the second thing is they do have a higher tendency to overheat and enter a dangerous mode of operation, which is called them will run away, and that's when you get those really dangerous battery fires.

But we're not so aware of the risks of lizimion batteries. And it's because people seem to think they're very similar to say like a double a battery that you put in your remotes and for television remote and they're very different. And the second thing is they do have a higher tendency to overheat and enter a dangerous mode of operation, which is called them will run away, and that's when you get those really dangerous battery fires.

Is this I was also associated with charging them in sort of non conventional charges, you know, those sort of cheap jobs that you buy online.

Is this I was also associated with charging them in sort of non conventional charges, you know, those sort of cheap jobs that you buy online.

Absolutely, It's one of the very very dangerous thing to do is to charge attempt to charge a lessium on battery with a charger that is not compatible with your battery. So i'd recommend to anyone out there who is looking to buy a charger go with the original equipment manufacturer's charger. If you're not certain, check with that manufacturer, or check with the reputable vendor that you're buying something through to make sure that they are compatible, because it's very high risk if if they're not compatible.

Absolutely, It's one of the very very dangerous thing to do is to charge attempt to charge a lessium on battery with a charger that is not compatible with your battery. So i'd recommend to anyone out there who is looking to buy a charger go with the original equipment manufacturer's charger. If you're not certain, check with that manufacturer, or check with the reputable vendor that you're buying something through to make sure that they are compatible, because it's very high risk if if they're not compatible.

What causes lithium battery fires. What ends up.

What causes lithium battery fires. What ends up.

Happening is there's some form of failure that occurs that can be due to a charging mismatch, can be due to you dropping the battery and damaging it. And one of the cells inside of these batteries is a bunch of little cells and they overheat and they get past a certain temperature. Unfortunately, what happens is the heating gets a lot faster and it exponentially begins to grow, and then it reaches a point in thermal runaway, which is where that heat production is so significant that the way in which we're managing heat and that battery can no longer handle that anymore, and after that, it's very likely that you'll experience a very dangerous battery fire.

Happening is there's some form of failure that occurs that can be due to a charging mismatch, can be due to you dropping the battery and damaging it. And one of the cells inside of these batteries is a bunch of little cells and they overheat and they get past a certain temperature. Unfortunately, what happens is the heating gets a lot faster and it exponentially begins to grow, and then it reaches a point in thermal runaway, which is where that heat production is so significant that the way in which we're managing heat and that battery can no longer handle that anymore, and after that, it's very likely that you'll experience a very dangerous battery fire.

And these fires are incredibly intense.

And these fires are incredibly intense.

They are incredibly intense and often in excess of five hundred degrees celsius some of these fires. And one of the challenges is you're not just trying to extinguish the fire itself. You're actually trying to bring the temperature of the faulted cell back below that thermal runaway temperature. So if you just extinguish the fire, there's a risk of reignition if you don't actually cool that battery down. So you'll notice when someone when the firefight as a fighting a battery, they're not just trying to put the fire out, they're actually trying to cool the battery down.

They are incredibly intense and often in excess of five hundred degrees celsius some of these fires. And one of the challenges is you're not just trying to extinguish the fire itself. You're actually trying to bring the temperature of the faulted cell back below that thermal runaway temperature. So if you just extinguish the fire, there's a risk of reignition if you don't actually cool that battery down. So you'll notice when someone when the firefight as a fighting a battery, they're not just trying to put the fire out, they're actually trying to cool the battery down.

Is there any special way that the lithium battery fires can be fought?

Is there any special way that the lithium battery fires can be fought?

There are a bunch of different technologies available on the market for these. When we look at it depends on the type of lithium ion battery that's on fire. A lot of these technologies are about how to get access to the battery. So for example, it's very rare, but in the rare case that there is an electric vehicle fire, say, pouring water onto the top of the car is not very effective because the batteries it's the bottom of the car, so you want to try and get the water to the bottom to try and cool that battery unit. So there are also some extinguishers out there that are supposedly used for lithium ion battery fires, but I would caution anyone unless you've been trained to fight a fly, to not try it. So my rule of bum has always been, if you're not trained to fight it, if you see a if your mind battery fire, you must evacuate and once you're in a safe space, then call emergency services. Because these batteries can put off very toxic gases. So if you try and get in there with an extinguisher without the right breathing apparatus equipment, you're likely going to get exposed to some very dangerous chemicals.

There are a bunch of different technologies available on the market for these. When we look at it depends on the type of lithium ion battery that's on fire. A lot of these technologies are about how to get access to the battery. So for example, it's very rare, but in the rare case that there is an electric vehicle fire, say, pouring water onto the top of the car is not very effective because the batteries it's the bottom of the car, so you want to try and get the water to the bottom to try and cool that battery unit. So there are also some extinguishers out there that are supposedly used for lithium ion battery fires, but I would caution anyone unless you've been trained to fight a fly, to not try it. So my rule of bum has always been, if you're not trained to fight it, if you see a if your mind battery fire, you must evacuate and once you're in a safe space, then call emergency services. Because these batteries can put off very toxic gases. So if you try and get in there with an extinguisher without the right breathing apparatus equipment, you're likely going to get exposed to some very dangerous chemicals.

Which brings me to the point that someone pointed out to me in the Tesla manual, the Tesla manual for its Model three, the response guide is it says it's safer just to let a lithium battery fire burn.

Which brings me to the point that someone pointed out to me in the Tesla manual, the Tesla manual for its Model three, the response guide is it says it's safer just to let a lithium battery fire burn.

That is yeah, and it depends on where it is, But yes, in a lot of situations. If the car is outside in an area where these gases can be vented to the environment, as long as you clear zone a way around the car, yes, it probably is safer to let that burn then get someone in close to it where they can potentially breathe in.

That is yeah, and it depends on where it is, But yes, in a lot of situations. If the car is outside in an area where these gases can be vented to the environment, as long as you clear zone a way around the car, yes, it probably is safer to let that burn then get someone in close to it where they can potentially breathe in.

These chemicals have a life, including lithium. Are there any dangers in recycling.

These chemicals have a life, including lithium. Are there any dangers in recycling.

Yes, there are, and it's one of the main dangers. And one of the things that we haven't really worked out at the moment is how to safely transport these batteries for recycling. Both transporting and handling them before they're being recycled is a real challenge at the moment. One of an example to this is you've got a bin full of lyufium ion batteries, say you know those bins that are actually even designed to take lithium ion batteries. If people don't, say, tape up their terminals, those little button sell lu fium ion batteries can actually connect together and cause it shortened one of those bins, which can cause a fire. It's very important that you only dispose of lu fium ion batteries in the correct way, which if you want to know more about that. Google lyfium ion battery recycling companies, and there are ones that have bins that are just for if mine batteries. Do not put them in a standard wastepin because it's a very high likelihood that could cause a fire in a garbage removal truck or a dump, which is very dangerous for those people.

Yes, there are, and it's one of the main dangers. And one of the things that we haven't really worked out at the moment is how to safely transport these batteries for recycling. Both transporting and handling them before they're being recycled is a real challenge at the moment. One of an example to this is you've got a bin full of lyufium ion batteries, say you know those bins that are actually even designed to take lithium ion batteries. If people don't, say, tape up their terminals, those little button sell lu fium ion batteries can actually connect together and cause it shortened one of those bins, which can cause a fire. It's very important that you only dispose of lu fium ion batteries in the correct way, which if you want to know more about that. Google lyfium ion battery recycling companies, and there are ones that have bins that are just for if mine batteries. Do not put them in a standard wastepin because it's a very high likelihood that could cause a fire in a garbage removal truck or a dump, which is very dangerous for those people.

Doctor technology is always improving, and lithium ion batteries obviously are the state of the art at the moment, But are we likely to progress to a battery form that is potentially less dangerous.

Doctor technology is always improving, and lithium ion batteries obviously are the state of the art at the moment, But are we likely to progress to a battery form that is potentially less dangerous.

Yes, yes, and there are so. Lucimon batteries are Actually that term is a subset of a bunch of different chemistries of batteries, some of which have better inherent safeties than others. And we are seemingly transitioning to what's called the LFP batteries, which inherently have a bigger margin for safety compared to some of the other chemistries. But even notwithstanding that, people are looking at what's called a solid state within my own batteries of sours that within battery, which is also a lot safer as well. There is probably a little bit more work that needs to go into that before that becomes cost effective and manufactural at the scale that we need right now. So for the moment this my old batteries are what we need to use. They're very important to decarbonize the economy. We just need to make sure that the way in which we're storing, handling, using and charging these batteries it's safe.

Yes, yes, and there are so. Lucimon batteries are Actually that term is a subset of a bunch of different chemistries of batteries, some of which have better inherent safeties than others. And we are seemingly transitioning to what's called the LFP batteries, which inherently have a bigger margin for safety compared to some of the other chemistries. But even notwithstanding that, people are looking at what's called a solid state within my own batteries of sours that within battery, which is also a lot safer as well. There is probably a little bit more work that needs to go into that before that becomes cost effective and manufactural at the scale that we need right now. So for the moment this my old batteries are what we need to use. They're very important to decarbonize the economy. We just need to make sure that the way in which we're storing, handling, using and charging these batteries it's safe.

And as you said earlier, I mean they're in smartphones and so many devices these days that you know without lithium ion batteries, you know, life and grind to oild.

And as you said earlier, I mean they're in smartphones and so many devices these days that you know without lithium ion batteries, you know, life and grind to oild.

Yes, yes, exactly, any of these portable devices that we rely on now. I mean even when we look at our phones, you know, how much we can store energy wise in a really small area and a light device is very impressive. There's something you know, twenty thirty years ago people could only dream of. So there are some really good advantages here to the lustimon batteries. But yeah, just got to use them safely and importantly, particularly in the e bike space that e bike scooters, that emmobility space. Need to make sure the products that we're bringing into this country are being designed with the correct safety standards. And that's really one of the areas where we're seeing most of the fires at the moment is in that emmobility space, and a lot of that is due to products that haven't been designed safely unfortunately.

Yes, yes, exactly, any of these portable devices that we rely on now. I mean even when we look at our phones, you know, how much we can store energy wise in a really small area and a light device is very impressive. There's something you know, twenty thirty years ago people could only dream of. So there are some really good advantages here to the lustimon batteries. But yeah, just got to use them safely and importantly, particularly in the e bike space that e bike scooters, that emmobility space. Need to make sure the products that we're bringing into this country are being designed with the correct safety standards. And that's really one of the areas where we're seeing most of the fires at the moment is in that emmobility space, and a lot of that is due to products that haven't been designed safely unfortunately.

Doctor Matthew Priestley, good.

Doctor Matthew Priestley, good.

To chat, thank you for having me.

To chat, thank you for having me.

That's doctor Matthew Priestley, the University of New South Wales on the subject of lithium ion batteries. Wonderful on the one hand, but yeah, if they burst into flames whatever reason, don't use the wrong charger. Only use the charger that came with the battery. And if you can store them outside or away from building is better. They burn intensely, They effectively can't be put out by traditional means. There are recycling dangers with them. Batteries are developing all the time. Hopefully before long we'll have safer batteries, but at the moment that's the state of play.

That's doctor Matthew Priestley, the University of New South Wales on the subject of lithium ion batteries. Wonderful on the one hand, but yeah, if they burst into flames whatever reason, don't use the wrong charger. Only use the charger that came with the battery. And if you can store them outside or away from building is better. They burn intensely, They effectively can't be put out by traditional means. There are recycling dangers with them. Batteries are developing all the time. Hopefully before long we'll have safer batteries, but at the moment that's the state of play.