You're listening to Moody Radio 89.3, and this is mornings with Eric and Bridget. Well, a.

You're listening to Moody Radio 89.3, and this is mornings with Eric and Bridget. Well, a.

Local church here in our community, Spanish Rivers, at the beginning of 2024 decided, you know what? Why not do a series and apologetics series in about once a month? We've been connecting with many of their speakers because the topics have been interesting and today's no different. Uh, Eric, we're going to be talking about data science. Point to God. Yeah.

Local church here in our community, Spanish Rivers, at the beginning of 2024 decided, you know what? Why not do a series and apologetics series in about once a month? We've been connecting with many of their speakers because the topics have been interesting and today's no different. Uh, Eric, we're going to be talking about data science. Point to God. Yeah.

And Matthew's joining us for this, Matthew Middelburg. And uh, tell us a little bit about how you got into this whole apologetics type of deal. What really got your, uh, you thirsty to drink all this in? Yeah.

And Matthew's joining us for this, Matthew Middelburg. And uh, tell us a little bit about how you got into this whole apologetics type of deal. What really got your, uh, you thirsty to drink all this in? Yeah.

Well, thanks for having me, guys. It's a blessing to be with you today. And, uh, I got interested in it through. My dad writes books on apologetics. So my dad's Mark Middelburg and, uh, his ministry partners with Lee Strobel. And so I've grown up in the apologetics world going to conferences. And for me, it really, uh, I got very interested in it when I went to Summit Ministries, when I was in high school and, uh, was surrounded by people my age that were all asking spiritual questions and thinking about the big questions of life. And I realized I want to help people to answer these questions. I want to want them to know why they believe what they believe.

Well, thanks for having me, guys. It's a blessing to be with you today. And, uh, I got interested in it through. My dad writes books on apologetics. So my dad's Mark Middelburg and, uh, his ministry partners with Lee Strobel. And so I've grown up in the apologetics world going to conferences. And for me, it really, uh, I got very interested in it when I went to Summit Ministries, when I was in high school and, uh, was surrounded by people my age that were all asking spiritual questions and thinking about the big questions of life. And I realized I want to help people to answer these questions. I want to want them to know why they believe what they believe.

And if you don't mind me asking, what is your type of generation? Because you are part of the younger generation? Yeah.

And if you don't mind me asking, what is your type of generation? Because you are part of the younger generation? Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'm 30, 31 years old. So, um, I've, uh, gone through different programs and, um, yeah, I've just enjoyed getting to do apologetics, getting to speak on these topics and help people in my generation to know, know Christ.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'm 30, 31 years old. So, um, I've, uh, gone through different programs and, um, yeah, I've just enjoyed getting to do apologetics, getting to speak on these topics and help people in my generation to know, know Christ.

This whole science question, I think, is important because you mentioned how just learning, being around this, it captured your heart, but it could have repelled you to a point also, and I think science has the opportunity to do that also. It can. People are either, um, brought to a closer understanding of who God is through this topic, or they're kind of pushed away almost and said, this can't have anything to do with God. Yeah, that's.

This whole science question, I think, is important because you mentioned how just learning, being around this, it captured your heart, but it could have repelled you to a point also, and I think science has the opportunity to do that also. It can. People are either, um, brought to a closer understanding of who God is through this topic, or they're kind of pushed away almost and said, this can't have anything to do with God. Yeah, that's.

Absolutely true, because there's such a strong anti-God bias in a lot of education around science. I had a friend who went into biology, and she was, uh, her freshman semester. She had three classes, and in each of her classes she was told by the professor, God does not exist. And if you bring up God in this class, you will be dismissed. And so a lot of people grow up in or they're educated in that environment and they they conclude, well, I guess science points away from God. Um, but I believe it's the exact opposite. I believe that science actually points towards God.

Absolutely true, because there's such a strong anti-God bias in a lot of education around science. I had a friend who went into biology, and she was, uh, her freshman semester. She had three classes, and in each of her classes she was told by the professor, God does not exist. And if you bring up God in this class, you will be dismissed. And so a lot of people grow up in or they're educated in that environment and they they conclude, well, I guess science points away from God. Um, but I believe it's the exact opposite. I believe that science actually points towards God.

All right. So let's jump into that. Can you be a Christian and believe in science?

All right. So let's jump into that. Can you be a Christian and believe in science?

Yes, I think you can. I think you can. Uh, and I think the, the history of science shows that. I mean, when you look at the history of science, I was I was shocked when I realized this. But many of the most famous scientists throughout history were Christians, and they their faith didn't prevent them from doing good science. It actually motivated them to go out there and discover the order in the universe. And it was because they believed that there was a rational order to creation, that they actually went out there to try to discover it and to find it and to systematize it. So actually, uh, you can be a Christian, you can be a person of faith and believe in science.

Yes, I think you can. I think you can. Uh, and I think the, the history of science shows that. I mean, when you look at the history of science, I was I was shocked when I realized this. But many of the most famous scientists throughout history were Christians, and they their faith didn't prevent them from doing good science. It actually motivated them to go out there and discover the order in the universe. And it was because they believed that there was a rational order to creation, that they actually went out there to try to discover it and to find it and to systematize it. So actually, uh, you can be a Christian, you can be a person of faith and believe in science.

Did Darwin kill that or was it before him? When did this whole thing switched so that now we're like, but you can't believe in God if you believe in science?

Did Darwin kill that or was it before him? When did this whole thing switched so that now we're like, but you can't believe in God if you believe in science?

Yeah, Darwin certainly had an influence on it. Uh, the enlightenment and and a lot of the, uh, more modern philosophers, uh, that believed in logical positivism and scientism certainly influenced that. That's the idea that, uh, the only kind of meaningful statements are ones that can be proved through science, uh, which is unfortunately, it's a self contradicting idea because that's not a scientific statement in itself. You can't put that in a test tube. So but that had a huge influence on the history of thought and the history of, uh, the philosophy of science. And I think we're starting to come around now to realize that's not really a tenable philosophy. When we think about the world, there's a lot of things that science can't explain. There's a lot of even the foundations of science itself aren't scientific. They're philosophical.

Yeah, Darwin certainly had an influence on it. Uh, the enlightenment and and a lot of the, uh, more modern philosophers, uh, that believed in logical positivism and scientism certainly influenced that. That's the idea that, uh, the only kind of meaningful statements are ones that can be proved through science, uh, which is unfortunately, it's a self contradicting idea because that's not a scientific statement in itself. You can't put that in a test tube. So but that had a huge influence on the history of thought and the history of, uh, the philosophy of science. And I think we're starting to come around now to realize that's not really a tenable philosophy. When we think about the world, there's a lot of things that science can't explain. There's a lot of even the foundations of science itself aren't scientific. They're philosophical.

Um, because there's so often it's a question. Right? It's a it's a hypothesis. It's an experiment. It's it's not like a definitive answer. It's it's a discovery. Isn't that the basis of science?

Um, because there's so often it's a question. Right? It's a it's a hypothesis. It's an experiment. It's it's not like a definitive answer. It's it's a discovery. Isn't that the basis of science?

Yeah. There's always, uh, it's always open to more evidence, more interpretation, uh, more discovery. So you can't necessarily prove anything scientifically. What you can do is point that the evidence points in a certain direction at this time, in this place. Um, but even science itself, this idea that we have the ability to understand the universe, uh, Einstein said that one of the most unbelievable mysteries of the universe is that it's comprehensible at all. So why can we comprehend the universe? Why can we understand it at all? And that is something that has to be taken on faith. It's not something that you can prove scientifically.

Yeah. There's always, uh, it's always open to more evidence, more interpretation, uh, more discovery. So you can't necessarily prove anything scientifically. What you can do is point that the evidence points in a certain direction at this time, in this place. Um, but even science itself, this idea that we have the ability to understand the universe, uh, Einstein said that one of the most unbelievable mysteries of the universe is that it's comprehensible at all. So why can we comprehend the universe? Why can we understand it at all? And that is something that has to be taken on faith. It's not something that you can prove scientifically.

Well, we kind of saw that yesterday, didn't we? There there was. Order to what happened? No matter what you think about the eclipse, right? There was order to what happened yesterday, and the fact that we can point to the exact day and time when it's going to happen here in Florida in 2045, that all that really does point to a creator, doesn't it? Yeah.

Well, we kind of saw that yesterday, didn't we? There there was. Order to what happened? No matter what you think about the eclipse, right? There was order to what happened yesterday, and the fact that we can point to the exact day and time when it's going to happen here in Florida in 2045, that all that really does point to a creator, doesn't it? Yeah.

Points to the rational consistency of creation that we can see these things repeated over and over again. And it seems like this is a logical universe. It's not a random universe. It's not a universe where we just don't know what's going to happen. Actually, it seems like there's a rational consistency to things and that that lines up with a rational creator.

Points to the rational consistency of creation that we can see these things repeated over and over again. And it seems like this is a logical universe. It's not a random universe. It's not a universe where we just don't know what's going to happen. Actually, it seems like there's a rational consistency to things and that that lines up with a rational creator.

Okay. But then some might say who struggle with this, but then what about when you start getting into miracles? Because that seems like I can't prove that, and I don't see the order in it. It doesn't make sense to me that someone could walk on water, for example, or many of the other miracles in the Bible. Do miracles. Are they anti-scientific?

Okay. But then some might say who struggle with this, but then what about when you start getting into miracles? Because that seems like I can't prove that, and I don't see the order in it. It doesn't make sense to me that someone could walk on water, for example, or many of the other miracles in the Bible. Do miracles. Are they anti-scientific?

Yeah, I don't think so. I think if there is a God who has created the universe, then he has created these regularities. He's created the world to be the way that it is. And so it doesn't make any logical contradiction for him to intervene and to change things and to, uh, to to tinker with the program, essentially. And so just like a creator of a program can change the code, God can change the code of reality. He can step in, he can enter creation. And especially if it's for the purpose of showing us who he is and what he's like, then he would want to do that. He would want to raise himself from the dead. He would want to do miracles to show us who he is and what he's like. So I don't think it's actually anti-scientific at all to believe in miracles.

Yeah, I don't think so. I think if there is a God who has created the universe, then he has created these regularities. He's created the world to be the way that it is. And so it doesn't make any logical contradiction for him to intervene and to change things and to, uh, to to tinker with the program, essentially. And so just like a creator of a program can change the code, God can change the code of reality. He can step in, he can enter creation. And especially if it's for the purpose of showing us who he is and what he's like, then he would want to do that. He would want to raise himself from the dead. He would want to do miracles to show us who he is and what he's like. So I don't think it's actually anti-scientific at all to believe in miracles.

Mhm. So is. Is there a scientific statement that would point to who God is? Can we? Can we look at science and say, that's proof right there?

Mhm. So is. Is there a scientific statement that would point to who God is? Can we? Can we look at science and say, that's proof right there?

Well, I think science again doesn't prove anything. It's always pointing in a certain direction. But I think science does point to God. And I think there's a variety of different ways that we could look at this. We could look at the biological fine tuning, we could look at the irreducible complexity of biological organisms. But I like to look at the universe itself, the existence of the universe, and the fact that the universe began to exist out of nothing. And this is a this is a scientific discovery that was resisted by scientists for a long time. They actually verbally said, we can't give credence to this idea because it's too similar to the biblical account, and we don't want to give credibility to the biblical account. So they resisted the evidence, but eventually the evidence just got so overwhelming that the vast majority of scientists today will admit, yeah, the universe began to exist out of nothing, which seems to line up with the words of Genesis.

Well, I think science again doesn't prove anything. It's always pointing in a certain direction. But I think science does point to God. And I think there's a variety of different ways that we could look at this. We could look at the biological fine tuning, we could look at the irreducible complexity of biological organisms. But I like to look at the universe itself, the existence of the universe, and the fact that the universe began to exist out of nothing. And this is a this is a scientific discovery that was resisted by scientists for a long time. They actually verbally said, we can't give credence to this idea because it's too similar to the biblical account, and we don't want to give credibility to the biblical account. So they resisted the evidence, but eventually the evidence just got so overwhelming that the vast majority of scientists today will admit, yeah, the universe began to exist out of nothing, which seems to line up with the words of Genesis.

Yeah, Genesis one one. Right. It's right there in the beginning. So what would you say then, to someone like even that, your friend that you mentioned going to class, maybe had been raised in a Christian home now is in university and their professors are telling them you need to throw away your faith if you're going to be a serious academic student. I mean, that's got to be a struggle for many.

Yeah, Genesis one one. Right. It's right there in the beginning. So what would you say then, to someone like even that, your friend that you mentioned going to class, maybe had been raised in a Christian home now is in university and their professors are telling them you need to throw away your faith if you're going to be a serious academic student. I mean, that's got to be a struggle for many.

Oh yeah, it's got to be really hard. And I love the advice of John Lennox on this subject. He says statements of scientists are not necessarily statements of science. So just because you have a really confident professor that believes that science has disproved God or replaced the need for God, that does not mean that science itself has made that statement. That's an interpretation. And for every scientist that says that there isn't a God, there's a scientist that says that there is a God and that points towards God. Actually, when you look at the winners of the Nobel Prize in Physics in the 20th century, two thirds of them were Christians. That's a surprising fact. But actually, a lot of the top scientists in the world today are Christians, and they believe that science and God can go together.

Oh yeah, it's got to be really hard. And I love the advice of John Lennox on this subject. He says statements of scientists are not necessarily statements of science. So just because you have a really confident professor that believes that science has disproved God or replaced the need for God, that does not mean that science itself has made that statement. That's an interpretation. And for every scientist that says that there isn't a God, there's a scientist that says that there is a God and that points towards God. Actually, when you look at the winners of the Nobel Prize in Physics in the 20th century, two thirds of them were Christians. That's a surprising fact. But actually, a lot of the top scientists in the world today are Christians, and they believe that science and God can go together.

I would say, if you think that professor is so confident. I would, I would almost push back and say, he's probably not as confident as you would think, because if that person was confident, they would say, well, then test it, try it. Let's see. You know, they would be open to a conversation, I would think. But if they're not even open to a conversation, to me that shows a little bit of fear in their beliefs almost. Yeah.

I would say, if you think that professor is so confident. I would, I would almost push back and say, he's probably not as confident as you would think, because if that person was confident, they would say, well, then test it, try it. Let's see. You know, they would be open to a conversation, I would think. But if they're not even open to a conversation, to me that shows a little bit of fear in their beliefs almost. Yeah.

Well, even Richard Dawkins at one point was asked, you know, what evidence would you take to believe that God exists? And he says, you know, it's not really a scientific point of view, but I don't think anything could convince me that God exists. Even if he were to appear to me personally, I would think that I was just hallucinating. And that's it's a it's a shockingly anti-scientific perspective to say I'm not open to the evidence. I'm not open to following where it leads. So actually, I think a more confident position would say, you know what? I, I'm convinced of this certain conclusion, but I'm open to the evidence. Show me the evidence. Show me whatever way it points, and I'll follow it wherever it goes.

Well, even Richard Dawkins at one point was asked, you know, what evidence would you take to believe that God exists? And he says, you know, it's not really a scientific point of view, but I don't think anything could convince me that God exists. Even if he were to appear to me personally, I would think that I was just hallucinating. And that's it's a it's a shockingly anti-scientific perspective to say I'm not open to the evidence. I'm not open to following where it leads. So actually, I think a more confident position would say, you know what? I, I'm convinced of this certain conclusion, but I'm open to the evidence. Show me the evidence. Show me whatever way it points, and I'll follow it wherever it goes.

Which is what apologetics does so well. It helps line up the evidence. It doesn't necessarily cause someone to say, okay, I definitely believe, but it helps overcome some of the obstacles to belief that many may have.

Which is what apologetics does so well. It helps line up the evidence. It doesn't necessarily cause someone to say, okay, I definitely believe, but it helps overcome some of the obstacles to belief that many may have.

Yeah, we still have the responsibility to decide what are we going to do with this evidence? What are we going to believe based on this evidence? And some people set that skepticism meter infinitely high, and they say, no matter what evidence you show me, I'm just not going to believe. But if we want to be open minded people, if we want to be rational people, we should follow the evidence wherever it leads and be willing to change our minds. Be willing to change our conclusions based on the evidence. And I'm confident that when you do that, you'll you'll come to believe that that God is real, that he exists, and that science actually points towards his existence.

Yeah, we still have the responsibility to decide what are we going to do with this evidence? What are we going to believe based on this evidence? And some people set that skepticism meter infinitely high, and they say, no matter what evidence you show me, I'm just not going to believe. But if we want to be open minded people, if we want to be rational people, we should follow the evidence wherever it leads and be willing to change our minds. Be willing to change our conclusions based on the evidence. And I'm confident that when you do that, you'll you'll come to believe that that God is real, that he exists, and that science actually points towards his existence.

Don't you think the Apostle Paul had his skepticism level really high, though? I mean, there's there's more at work in a person's heart than belief in science, right?

Don't you think the Apostle Paul had his skepticism level really high, though? I mean, there's there's more at work in a person's heart than belief in science, right?

Sure, absolutely. Yeah. Undoubtedly God is working in our hearts. He is calling us home to him. And yeah, but even the even the apostle Paul, right. He had those three days where he was blind and he he could have gone, you know what? Maybe I maybe I just hallucinated this thing, or maybe it was, you know, maybe it wasn't actually God that that did this. And yet he chose to follow God. He chose to receive Jesus as his Lord and Savior. And I think that's that's what we ought to do as well.

Sure, absolutely. Yeah. Undoubtedly God is working in our hearts. He is calling us home to him. And yeah, but even the even the apostle Paul, right. He had those three days where he was blind and he he could have gone, you know what? Maybe I maybe I just hallucinated this thing, or maybe it was, you know, maybe it wasn't actually God that that did this. And yet he chose to follow God. He chose to receive Jesus as his Lord and Savior. And I think that's that's what we ought to do as well.

Well, coming up, this is it. This Thursday evening, right at Spanish River church, you're going to be a part of their conversation series where you can dive even more into this topic. The God hypothesis. Does science point to God? Is this a talk or a lecture you've given before? And what some of the maybe questions? Because I know there's going to be a Q&A time that you might anticipate based on past experiences on this topic.

Well, coming up, this is it. This Thursday evening, right at Spanish River church, you're going to be a part of their conversation series where you can dive even more into this topic. The God hypothesis. Does science point to God? Is this a talk or a lecture you've given before? And what some of the maybe questions? Because I know there's going to be a Q&A time that you might anticipate based on past experiences on this topic.

Yeah, I've given this talk several times, and I've always enjoyed speaking about this because it's one of the biggest objections that people have to belief in God. So one of the one of the biggest questions that people has have is kind of this isn't belief in God just kind of a God of the gaps mindset. So we have a gap in our knowledge. There's something that we don't understand and therefore we we insert God to just kind of explain that. And that's an understandable kind of objection, because if you look at the history of the world, if you look at ancient societies, when they didn't understand why the sun rose or the the rivers flowed, they said, oh, there must be a sun god or there must be a river god. But that's not why Christians believe what they do. But Christians believe not that there's a God needs to explain a gap in our knowledge, but that God is the source of all knowledge. He explains, even the things that we do know, that things that we do understand, he is the ultimate foundation of reality. And he explains those things. So, um, yeah, no, we don't believe in God because there's a gap in our knowledge, but because what we do know actually points towards God. The fine tuning of the universe, the beginning of the universe, the complexity of creation. These things seem to cry out for an explanation in God.

Yeah, I've given this talk several times, and I've always enjoyed speaking about this because it's one of the biggest objections that people have to belief in God. So one of the one of the biggest questions that people has have is kind of this isn't belief in God just kind of a God of the gaps mindset. So we have a gap in our knowledge. There's something that we don't understand and therefore we we insert God to just kind of explain that. And that's an understandable kind of objection, because if you look at the history of the world, if you look at ancient societies, when they didn't understand why the sun rose or the the rivers flowed, they said, oh, there must be a sun god or there must be a river god. But that's not why Christians believe what they do. But Christians believe not that there's a God needs to explain a gap in our knowledge, but that God is the source of all knowledge. He explains, even the things that we do know, that things that we do understand, he is the ultimate foundation of reality. And he explains those things. So, um, yeah, no, we don't believe in God because there's a gap in our knowledge, but because what we do know actually points towards God. The fine tuning of the universe, the beginning of the universe, the complexity of creation. These things seem to cry out for an explanation in God.

Okay. Someone that, um. Study science and deals in this topic all the time has much more knowledge of this than I do. And so for me to go up to somebody and talk to them about this intelligently or whatever would be very difficult. Yeah. Um, if if that's the case, how do you, um, what is your advice for someone if someone starts going down this road and you're like, I don't even know where to go with this, what do you how do you encourage them to proceed with that person in a loving, godly way?

Okay. Someone that, um. Study science and deals in this topic all the time has much more knowledge of this than I do. And so for me to go up to somebody and talk to them about this intelligently or whatever would be very difficult. Yeah. Um, if if that's the case, how do you, um, what is your advice for someone if someone starts going down this road and you're like, I don't even know where to go with this, what do you how do you encourage them to proceed with that person in a loving, godly way?

Yeah, I think to understand some of these basic arguments, uh, such as the Kalam cosmological argument. That's the one that I said, you know, whatever begins to exist must have a cause for its existence. The universe began to exist. Therefore, the universe must have a cause for its existence. That's a pretty simple statement right there. And it's very simple argument, but it's very difficult to argue with. And even scientists who, you know, I'm not a scientist, I, I've been trained in philosophy and philosophy, religion, uh, but I when I talk to scientists, they don't have a good explanation for that. They don't have a good argument to answer that kind of an argument. And so, uh, even if you're not a scientist, you can grasp these simple concepts, these simple arguments that I think are very powerful and don't have good naturalistic explanations. And you can help take somebody to take steps closer to God and maybe encourage that person to read somebody like John Lennox or like Lee Strobel book, uh, case for a creator that will help them to actually explore the scientific side of things.

Yeah, I think to understand some of these basic arguments, uh, such as the Kalam cosmological argument. That's the one that I said, you know, whatever begins to exist must have a cause for its existence. The universe began to exist. Therefore, the universe must have a cause for its existence. That's a pretty simple statement right there. And it's very simple argument, but it's very difficult to argue with. And even scientists who, you know, I'm not a scientist, I, I've been trained in philosophy and philosophy, religion, uh, but I when I talk to scientists, they don't have a good explanation for that. They don't have a good argument to answer that kind of an argument. And so, uh, even if you're not a scientist, you can grasp these simple concepts, these simple arguments that I think are very powerful and don't have good naturalistic explanations. And you can help take somebody to take steps closer to God and maybe encourage that person to read somebody like John Lennox or like Lee Strobel book, uh, case for a creator that will help them to actually explore the scientific side of things.

And you talk about the fact that, uh, we also need faith to believe that science is trustworthy. In other words, faith works on both sides of this argument.

And you talk about the fact that, uh, we also need faith to believe that science is trustworthy. In other words, faith works on both sides of this argument.

Yeah, faith is just believing something. It's just putting your your trust in something. And a lot of, uh, scientists or a lot of atheists will say, you know, Christians, you have to have faith. I believe in science, but we all have to have faith. Why do you believe that science works? You have to trust that science works. You can't absolutely prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt. And so we're all operating on faith. The question is, what are you going to choose to have faith in? What are you going to put your faith in? And I think when we look at the evidence, it points towards God.

Yeah, faith is just believing something. It's just putting your your trust in something. And a lot of, uh, scientists or a lot of atheists will say, you know, Christians, you have to have faith. I believe in science, but we all have to have faith. Why do you believe that science works? You have to trust that science works. You can't absolutely prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt. And so we're all operating on faith. The question is, what are you going to choose to have faith in? What are you going to put your faith in? And I think when we look at the evidence, it points towards God.

Wow. Well, this is going to be really helpful. It is happening Thursday. You can find out all the information at our website. Eric and Bridget and Matthew. It's going to be a, I think, a really important time for a lot of people. If you have students, this is really going to be an important session, I think, for them. And if you're going to be answering questions, uh, hope you're ready. Yeah.

Wow. Well, this is going to be really helpful. It is happening Thursday. You can find out all the information at our website. Eric and Bridget and Matthew. It's going to be a, I think, a really important time for a lot of people. If you have students, this is really going to be an important session, I think, for them. And if you're going to be answering questions, uh, hope you're ready. Yeah.

I hope I'm ready to. You never know what people are gonna ask. And, uh, I'm excited to be a part of it. So. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, guys.

I hope I'm ready to. You never know what people are gonna ask. And, uh, I'm excited to be a part of it. So. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, guys.

Thank you for being here again. Find out about this lecture series, especially this one happening this Thursday night. We've got a link to it at Eric and Bridget.

Thank you for being here again. Find out about this lecture series, especially this one happening this Thursday night. We've got a link to it at Eric and Bridget.