You're listening to Moody Radio 89.3. And mornings with Eric and Bridget.

You're listening to Moody Radio 89.3. And mornings with Eric and Bridget.

You know, one thing The chosen has done is it's it's really brought many of the stories that we read in the Gospels to light. And early on in the series, there was, I think, several episodes, but it's especially one that dealt with the struggle of Nicodemus and how he came to Jesus at night.

You know, one thing The chosen has done is it's it's really brought many of the stories that we read in the Gospels to light. And early on in the series, there was, I think, several episodes, but it's especially one that dealt with the struggle of Nicodemus and how he came to Jesus at night.

Yeah. You saw his life basically as they led up to this. And, you know, things that aren't in Scripture. They were just kind of showing who he was and what his job was and things like that. And then they had that conversation on the rooftop with Jesus at night, kind of sneaking him in the back door, almost. And it was it was just an emotional. It's my favorite episode of that series. I just think it did, in my eyes, a fantastic job of really enlightening us, of not what it was, but what it might have been. Right. We just don't know. But then the the phrases, the statements that were made there by Jesus and why they were and how they were and how they impacted that man. I think that that series did, in that case, did a very good job of letting us kind of see what it might have been like.

Yeah. You saw his life basically as they led up to this. And, you know, things that aren't in Scripture. They were just kind of showing who he was and what his job was and things like that. And then they had that conversation on the rooftop with Jesus at night, kind of sneaking him in the back door, almost. And it was it was just an emotional. It's my favorite episode of that series. I just think it did, in my eyes, a fantastic job of really enlightening us, of not what it was, but what it might have been. Right. We just don't know. But then the the phrases, the statements that were made there by Jesus and why they were and how they were and how they impacted that man. I think that that series did, in that case, did a very good job of letting us kind of see what it might have been like.

Yeah, especially why he felt he needed to keep his heart and his desire and how it was drawing him to Jesus a secret. And Daniel, darling, you wrote about this in your book as well, the characters of Esther. One of the final chapters in this book was about the secret disciples. And you really zero in on Nicodemus. And I think for us sometimes we think, well, you know, why wouldn't you shout it from the rooftops? Right? But there was really important reasons why they had to keep it a secret, really, for a long time.

Yeah, especially why he felt he needed to keep his heart and his desire and how it was drawing him to Jesus a secret. And Daniel, darling, you wrote about this in your book as well, the characters of Esther. One of the final chapters in this book was about the secret disciples. And you really zero in on Nicodemus. And I think for us sometimes we think, well, you know, why wouldn't you shout it from the rooftops? Right? But there was really important reasons why they had to keep it a secret, really, for a long time.

Yeah, there really is. I mean, if you think about Nicodemus, um, he, uh, was a member of the Sanhedrin, which is the ruling the religious ruling body in Israel. They were the Sanhedrin was likely very, um, conservative. Um, um, um, and uh, they were skeptical, obviously, of Jesus, uh, of his claims to be Messiah, as most Jewish people would have been. You know, they didn't want to fall for a false messiah. They didn't want to chase after idols, but obviously because they were, um, many of them were so letter of the law, they actually missed what the prophets had been saying, uh, and that Jesus had fulfilled them all, you know, all the marks of what the Messiah would be. So Nicodemus was someone who was earnestly seeking what what the truth was. And as a great teacher in Israel, um, you know, he had to be wise and circumspect about how he approached this. I think he, you know, when he met Jesus at night. There's a couple reasons for that. I think, number one, there obviously is a being discreet. Um, but also number two, meeting at night to be able to have a, substantive conversation without the crowds and without people bothering him. You know, they could sit down and have a substantive conversation. Um, and Jesus confronted Nicodemus with his own sin, which is a remarkable, you know, in John chapter three. It's really remarkable because Nicodemus, one of the greatest teachers in Israel, he's revered. He's seen as devout and a model that everyone wants to follow. And Jesus said, well, you two have to be born again. Um, and of course, Nicodemus. After that, there's a there's a moment where he defends Jesus, you know, in among all the rulers, he says, oh, wait a minute, is, you know, are we treating him fairly? Is he getting, you know, due process? Are we are we taking care of this or are we just, you know, trying to convict this man? And then at the end of the story, you know, in the Gospels, after Jesus dies, he's one of the ones that makes sure that Jesus body is taken care of and is given a proper burial. So he shows great courage. Um, but, you know, sometimes courage looks like being wise about when we do that and how we do that. I think it's often of, um, Christians who are in difficult circumstances, whether you're in a closed country and, uh, to be a Christian is dangerous and risky. Yes. You're going to have courage. Yes. You're willing to die for your faith, but you are going to be wise about when you express it and how you do that. And so that you can continue to, uh, to do ministry. But I also think about maybe folks who are, um, Christians who, uh, work in a secular environment or a lot of people listening who may have to be, you know, are Christians, but they have to be wise about how they express it in order to be most effective for the Lord.

Yeah, there really is. I mean, if you think about Nicodemus, um, he, uh, was a member of the Sanhedrin, which is the ruling the religious ruling body in Israel. They were the Sanhedrin was likely very, um, conservative. Um, um, um, and uh, they were skeptical, obviously, of Jesus, uh, of his claims to be Messiah, as most Jewish people would have been. You know, they didn't want to fall for a false messiah. They didn't want to chase after idols, but obviously because they were, um, many of them were so letter of the law, they actually missed what the prophets had been saying, uh, and that Jesus had fulfilled them all, you know, all the marks of what the Messiah would be. So Nicodemus was someone who was earnestly seeking what what the truth was. And as a great teacher in Israel, um, you know, he had to be wise and circumspect about how he approached this. I think he, you know, when he met Jesus at night. There's a couple reasons for that. I think, number one, there obviously is a being discreet. Um, but also number two, meeting at night to be able to have a, substantive conversation without the crowds and without people bothering him. You know, they could sit down and have a substantive conversation. Um, and Jesus confronted Nicodemus with his own sin, which is a remarkable, you know, in John chapter three. It's really remarkable because Nicodemus, one of the greatest teachers in Israel, he's revered. He's seen as devout and a model that everyone wants to follow. And Jesus said, well, you two have to be born again. Um, and of course, Nicodemus. After that, there's a there's a moment where he defends Jesus, you know, in among all the rulers, he says, oh, wait a minute, is, you know, are we treating him fairly? Is he getting, you know, due process? Are we are we taking care of this or are we just, you know, trying to convict this man? And then at the end of the story, you know, in the Gospels, after Jesus dies, he's one of the ones that makes sure that Jesus body is taken care of and is given a proper burial. So he shows great courage. Um, but, you know, sometimes courage looks like being wise about when we do that and how we do that. I think it's often of, um, Christians who are in difficult circumstances, whether you're in a closed country and, uh, to be a Christian is dangerous and risky. Yes. You're going to have courage. Yes. You're willing to die for your faith, but you are going to be wise about when you express it and how you do that. And so that you can continue to, uh, to do ministry. But I also think about maybe folks who are, um, Christians who, uh, work in a secular environment or a lot of people listening who may have to be, you know, are Christians, but they have to be wise about how they express it in order to be most effective for the Lord.

You also mentioned how the life of Jesus was bookended by two Josephs. So the second person we want to look at here is Joseph. Tell us about him.

You also mentioned how the life of Jesus was bookended by two Josephs. So the second person we want to look at here is Joseph. Tell us about him.

Yeah. Isn't it interesting that, um, Joseph is Jesus, uh, earthly father? He's obviously in the lineage of David, and he, uh, obviously is a very noble and righteous man who has a difficult assignment takes care of Jesus. But then at the end of his life, there's another Joseph. You know, Joseph of Arimathea, who seems to come out of nowhere. But he too, like Nicodemus, was wealthy, powerful, influential, but also a Jesus follower. And he too had to sort of keep that discreet. And I think we don't understand it, how much risk Joseph and Nicodemus put themselves in by asking for the body of Jesus and for giving him a burial like this. Most people crucified by the Romans would be buried in a in an unmarked grave. It was a very, uh, shameful, um, uh, um, death. And, um, and I think for Joseph and Nicodemus to, to say, no, we're with Jesus. I mean, this was the moment where they came out and said, we are Christians. We are with Jesus. And, um, it does show that Jesus followers often came from the poor and the downtrodden people who were forgotten, but he also had followers in the elite circles, people who were businessmen or people who, um, were a member of religious leadership or even in Herod's household. Uh, I think of maybe someone like Joseph would be someone like maybe in Hollywood or some elite circles that were to be a follower of Christ will invite a lot of pushback and a lot of loss of social capital. And, uh, at the time, Joseph and Nicodemus were willing to say, you know what? We are going to be identified with him. This was a great risk to all the, you know, their friends or family would be like, well, why do you care so much about his body? Why do you want to take care of him? But I do think, um, Joseph of Arimathea, we owe him and Nicodemus a great gratitude because they took care of Jesus body and put him in Joseph's tomb that he owned as a rich man. Not only did it fulfill prophecy from the Old Testament that Jesus would be buried in a rich man's tomb, but also it was visible so that when folks came to see it, they could see that the tomb was empty. It was a visible sign of the resurrection. Um, Joseph helped provide the first witness, the first apologetic of the news of of Jesus resurrection. Um, and so I think we owe them a great deal at Easter.

Yeah. Isn't it interesting that, um, Joseph is Jesus, uh, earthly father? He's obviously in the lineage of David, and he, uh, obviously is a very noble and righteous man who has a difficult assignment takes care of Jesus. But then at the end of his life, there's another Joseph. You know, Joseph of Arimathea, who seems to come out of nowhere. But he too, like Nicodemus, was wealthy, powerful, influential, but also a Jesus follower. And he too had to sort of keep that discreet. And I think we don't understand it, how much risk Joseph and Nicodemus put themselves in by asking for the body of Jesus and for giving him a burial like this. Most people crucified by the Romans would be buried in a in an unmarked grave. It was a very, uh, shameful, um, uh, um, death. And, um, and I think for Joseph and Nicodemus to, to say, no, we're with Jesus. I mean, this was the moment where they came out and said, we are Christians. We are with Jesus. And, um, it does show that Jesus followers often came from the poor and the downtrodden people who were forgotten, but he also had followers in the elite circles, people who were businessmen or people who, um, were a member of religious leadership or even in Herod's household. Uh, I think of maybe someone like Joseph would be someone like maybe in Hollywood or some elite circles that were to be a follower of Christ will invite a lot of pushback and a lot of loss of social capital. And, uh, at the time, Joseph and Nicodemus were willing to say, you know what? We are going to be identified with him. This was a great risk to all the, you know, their friends or family would be like, well, why do you care so much about his body? Why do you want to take care of him? But I do think, um, Joseph of Arimathea, we owe him and Nicodemus a great gratitude because they took care of Jesus body and put him in Joseph's tomb that he owned as a rich man. Not only did it fulfill prophecy from the Old Testament that Jesus would be buried in a rich man's tomb, but also it was visible so that when folks came to see it, they could see that the tomb was empty. It was a visible sign of the resurrection. Um, Joseph helped provide the first witness, the first apologetic of the news of of Jesus resurrection. Um, and so I think we owe them a great deal at Easter.

We're talking with Daniel Darling, who's author of The Characters of Easter. He's also an author, speaker, a pastor. And Daniel, I think it's so interesting that, as you mentioned, disciples of Jesus came from all walks of life. And maybe Joseph of Arimathea wasn't the one who followed Jesus, like Matthew, Mark and Luke, you know, everywhere he went. Type of thing. But he he still played a very important role because, like you said, he helped to fulfill prophecy. So I think what that shows us is that no matter where we are, no matter how we follow Christ, we all have a part to play in the story he's writing.

We're talking with Daniel Darling, who's author of The Characters of Easter. He's also an author, speaker, a pastor. And Daniel, I think it's so interesting that, as you mentioned, disciples of Jesus came from all walks of life. And maybe Joseph of Arimathea wasn't the one who followed Jesus, like Matthew, Mark and Luke, you know, everywhere he went. Type of thing. But he he still played a very important role because, like you said, he helped to fulfill prophecy. So I think what that shows us is that no matter where we are, no matter how we follow Christ, we all have a part to play in the story he's writing.

Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, there's a lot of people like Joseph, a lot of Christians. I mean, uh, obviously there's many who are called who were called like the disciples to make this a full time ministry to leave everything and follow Jesus. But there's a lot of Christians who God has called to work in their industries, in their, uh, line of work, in their communities, where to be a Christian, uh, is very countercultural. And even though you demonstrate great courage and you're not willing to back off of your faith, you want it. You have to be wise about how you speak about it. Um, and you can make a great impact in that world. I imagine in Joseph's world, the Nicodemus world, uh, their courage or willingness to, um, be identify with Jesus there after his death provoked a lot of conversations. Um, these were very smart, very educated, very respected men. And yet they were willing to say, we are with this Jesus of Nazareth, who claims to be the Son of God and we are with him. I also think there's a little bit of faith here in Joseph allowing Jesus to use his tomb. In one sense, it's a great sacrifice to say, you know, this is a tomb that we had purchased for my own burial one day as a wealthy man, as head of a family. That would be a big thing there in the first first century Judaism, Second Temple Judaism. But, um, I also think he had faith to hear Jesus words. Who who said he would rise again on the third day. That I'm letting him borrow my tomb, but he won't need it for long.

Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, there's a lot of people like Joseph, a lot of Christians. I mean, uh, obviously there's many who are called who were called like the disciples to make this a full time ministry to leave everything and follow Jesus. But there's a lot of Christians who God has called to work in their industries, in their, uh, line of work, in their communities, where to be a Christian, uh, is very countercultural. And even though you demonstrate great courage and you're not willing to back off of your faith, you want it. You have to be wise about how you speak about it. Um, and you can make a great impact in that world. I imagine in Joseph's world, the Nicodemus world, uh, their courage or willingness to, um, be identify with Jesus there after his death provoked a lot of conversations. Um, these were very smart, very educated, very respected men. And yet they were willing to say, we are with this Jesus of Nazareth, who claims to be the Son of God and we are with him. I also think there's a little bit of faith here in Joseph allowing Jesus to use his tomb. In one sense, it's a great sacrifice to say, you know, this is a tomb that we had purchased for my own burial one day as a wealthy man, as head of a family. That would be a big thing there in the first first century Judaism, Second Temple Judaism. But, um, I also think he had faith to hear Jesus words. Who who said he would rise again on the third day. That I'm letting him borrow my tomb, but he won't need it for long.

I also, I'm thinking of the Good Samaritan in this story, how the religious leaders walked on the other side. These were men with clean fingernails. They weren't. They weren't digging in the dirt. They were. They were, um, men who, like you said, respected. But they were also not dirty. And for them to humble themselves. And you, you mention it in the book, the characters of Easter, how they had to. Basically peel him off the cross and carry him then to the tomb. This was not a. Easy work and be it was not clean work. This was something different for these men. And it was really a humble statement, wasn't it?

I also, I'm thinking of the Good Samaritan in this story, how the religious leaders walked on the other side. These were men with clean fingernails. They weren't. They weren't digging in the dirt. They were. They were, um, men who, like you said, respected. But they were also not dirty. And for them to humble themselves. And you, you mention it in the book, the characters of Easter, how they had to. Basically peel him off the cross and carry him then to the tomb. This was not a. Easy work and be it was not clean work. This was something different for these men. And it was really a humble statement, wasn't it?

It really was. I mean, here are these noble, um, well respected, wealthy members of elite society willing to humble themselves to be with Jesus. And, as you said, to to scrape his body off the cross and to dress his wound and to embalm him and to wrap him neatly is hard and difficult work. I mean, it's it's, um, you know, it's not for the faint of heart. And it does remind me a little bit of the magi, the wise men coming to see the infant Jesus. Well, here, these wise, noble, well respected men from the East, you know, bending and bowing before this infant. And in both cases, they recognize that Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords. And we're willing to humble ourselves and everyone who comes to Jesus, whether you're from, uh, the poorest community or whether you're a member of elite society, everybody has to bow before him. Everyone has to humble themselves. I think that's a great picture of that. And it shows that God is calling people from everywhere. Um, just as your poverty and your background, um, is not a barrier to knowing Jesus, knowing God by faith and Christ. Same thing as your wealth and your status and your your standing in society doesn't have to be a barrier for you to come to know Jesus.

It really was. I mean, here are these noble, um, well respected, wealthy members of elite society willing to humble themselves to be with Jesus. And, as you said, to to scrape his body off the cross and to dress his wound and to embalm him and to wrap him neatly is hard and difficult work. I mean, it's it's, um, you know, it's not for the faint of heart. And it does remind me a little bit of the magi, the wise men coming to see the infant Jesus. Well, here, these wise, noble, well respected men from the East, you know, bending and bowing before this infant. And in both cases, they recognize that Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords. And we're willing to humble ourselves and everyone who comes to Jesus, whether you're from, uh, the poorest community or whether you're a member of elite society, everybody has to bow before him. Everyone has to humble themselves. I think that's a great picture of that. And it shows that God is calling people from everywhere. Um, just as your poverty and your background, um, is not a barrier to knowing Jesus, knowing God by faith and Christ. Same thing as your wealth and your status and your your standing in society doesn't have to be a barrier for you to come to know Jesus.

I think that's so interesting what you said about Joseph of Arimathea. I never thought about that quite like that. He let Jesus borrow the tomb, but he knew that tomb was going to be empty. So that's okay. I'm still going to have access to this tomb when I need it. And what's fascinating about that is, again, he wasn't the one who was with Jesus day in and day out. Like the disciples who heard Jesus say over and over again, I'm going to dine and I'm going to rise again. And they still didn't quite get it, but it seems like Joseph did.

I think that's so interesting what you said about Joseph of Arimathea. I never thought about that quite like that. He let Jesus borrow the tomb, but he knew that tomb was going to be empty. So that's okay. I'm still going to have access to this tomb when I need it. And what's fascinating about that is, again, he wasn't the one who was with Jesus day in and day out. Like the disciples who heard Jesus say over and over again, I'm going to dine and I'm going to rise again. And they still didn't quite get it, but it seems like Joseph did.

He really did. And I just think, here's Joseph, he's not a disciple of Jesus. You know, he's not an apostle. He's not one of the great apostles that we think of, wrote New Testament or named churches after. Um, but, you know, he gave what he had. He said, well, I have a tomb. You know, there's a need. Jesus is dead. I have this, I can give it. He like the boy with the the little boy with with his little lunch when Jesus fed the 5000. This is all I have to give. I don't even know if I can do anything. And I think if folks who say, man, I don't know what I can give, I don't know what I have to offer. Um, uh, and, you know, you come with what you have and give what you have for the Lord. I, I think just a great spirit of sacrifice, and I don't want to underestimate the courage it took for both of these men to do what they did. I mean, to step forward and for Joseph to say, I'm going to let him, um, use my tomb that is reserved for my family. And and it's a big symbol of of our family. Um, he provided really the first platform to hear the news of the resurrection. Had he not provided this tomb, had Jesus been buried in a common grave, it's much harder to to go find that grave and see that it was empty. Uh, versus this big, obvious, um, place of burial that everyone would know where it where it existed and where the women could come to and where Peter and John could come to, to see that the tomb was empty.

He really did. And I just think, here's Joseph, he's not a disciple of Jesus. You know, he's not an apostle. He's not one of the great apostles that we think of, wrote New Testament or named churches after. Um, but, you know, he gave what he had. He said, well, I have a tomb. You know, there's a need. Jesus is dead. I have this, I can give it. He like the boy with the the little boy with with his little lunch when Jesus fed the 5000. This is all I have to give. I don't even know if I can do anything. And I think if folks who say, man, I don't know what I can give, I don't know what I have to offer. Um, uh, and, you know, you come with what you have and give what you have for the Lord. I, I think just a great spirit of sacrifice, and I don't want to underestimate the courage it took for both of these men to do what they did. I mean, to step forward and for Joseph to say, I'm going to let him, um, use my tomb that is reserved for my family. And and it's a big symbol of of our family. Um, he provided really the first platform to hear the news of the resurrection. Had he not provided this tomb, had Jesus been buried in a common grave, it's much harder to to go find that grave and see that it was empty. Uh, versus this big, obvious, um, place of burial that everyone would know where it where it existed and where the women could come to and where Peter and John could come to, to see that the tomb was empty.

Mhm. Do we know anything about these men beyond what we hear in this story here?

Mhm. Do we know anything about these men beyond what we hear in this story here?

Not really. I mean, there's speculation about about them but not much. You know, other than that they were, you know, devout Jewish People. They were definitely Pharisees as opposed to Sadducees. And Pharisees were the conservative, you know, sort of keepers of the law. And the Sadducees were more, you know, skeptical of of, um, ancient scriptures didn't believe in the resurrection. Um, they they obviously were countercultural to even their own tribe who had all resisted Jesus, at least up to that point. Um, and so, uh, they just sort of pop onto the pages of Scripture. They pop into the Easter story as, as people whom God raised up to take care of, of Jesus.

Not really. I mean, there's speculation about about them but not much. You know, other than that they were, you know, devout Jewish People. They were definitely Pharisees as opposed to Sadducees. And Pharisees were the conservative, you know, sort of keepers of the law. And the Sadducees were more, you know, skeptical of of, um, ancient scriptures didn't believe in the resurrection. Um, they they obviously were countercultural to even their own tribe who had all resisted Jesus, at least up to that point. Um, and so, uh, they just sort of pop onto the pages of Scripture. They pop into the Easter story as, as people whom God raised up to take care of, of Jesus.

Um, I just in my mind, I think they had to be so on, on uh, in as the book of acts starts and thousands are coming to accept who Jesus is. I just have to think they they sat back and said, there, see, we not in an arrogant way, but just in a way. Yes, we were right. We knew what we were doing. I just feel like, uh, the sense of satisfaction they had to have and belief in him had to just be emboldened at that point.

Um, I just in my mind, I think they had to be so on, on uh, in as the book of acts starts and thousands are coming to accept who Jesus is. I just have to think they they sat back and said, there, see, we not in an arrogant way, but just in a way. Yes, we were right. We knew what we were doing. I just feel like, uh, the sense of satisfaction they had to have and belief in him had to just be emboldened at that point.

Absolutely. And I think of someone like Nicodemus, who was a respected teacher of the law. He was educated. He would he would teach, um, he was academically trained. And yet he did not let his intellect and his his knowledge and his education get in the way of of searching after and accepting the simple truth of what Jesus was saying about being born again, about, uh, the gospel about, uh, Jesus dying and rising again to save people from their sins. A lot of times, uh, people who are well educated and well respected, um, nibble at the edges of the gospel, but they're nervous about fully embracing it because what it will cost them in terms of academics, prestige or social prestige. Beach. I can't believe the simple gospel. I can't be identified with Christians. I can't really believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Most people in the Academy don't believe that, and he's willing to give all that up because he believed it was true and he was willing to follow Jesus with his life. And we don't really know where Nicodemus went. You know, in the after the resurrection, you'd like to think in your sanctified imagination that he was a pillar of the early church and he was a great teacher. Um, uh, in the church. But we just really don't know.

Absolutely. And I think of someone like Nicodemus, who was a respected teacher of the law. He was educated. He would he would teach, um, he was academically trained. And yet he did not let his intellect and his his knowledge and his education get in the way of of searching after and accepting the simple truth of what Jesus was saying about being born again, about, uh, the gospel about, uh, Jesus dying and rising again to save people from their sins. A lot of times, uh, people who are well educated and well respected, um, nibble at the edges of the gospel, but they're nervous about fully embracing it because what it will cost them in terms of academics, prestige or social prestige. Beach. I can't believe the simple gospel. I can't be identified with Christians. I can't really believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Most people in the Academy don't believe that, and he's willing to give all that up because he believed it was true and he was willing to follow Jesus with his life. And we don't really know where Nicodemus went. You know, in the after the resurrection, you'd like to think in your sanctified imagination that he was a pillar of the early church and he was a great teacher. Um, uh, in the church. But we just really don't know.

Well, maybe we can do a series about that. Okay. There's a lot of series going on these days. Well, Daniel, darling, thank you so much for joining us. The characters of Easter is the book that we've just one of the chapters we've been diving into. And this is good no matter if it's before or after Easter, because the stories of the people wrapped up in it are so fascinating. And I love what you said, I underlined it, they gave what they had. Thank you so much for joining us. If you want to find out, just head to our website.

Well, maybe we can do a series about that. Okay. There's a lot of series going on these days. Well, Daniel, darling, thank you so much for joining us. The characters of Easter is the book that we've just one of the chapters we've been diving into. And this is good no matter if it's before or after Easter, because the stories of the people wrapped up in it are so fascinating. And I love what you said, I underlined it, they gave what they had. Thank you so much for joining us. If you want to find out, just head to our website.