UFC returns this weekend on pay per view, returns to the city of Miami, oring to lower my shirt where my fucking one?

UFC returns this weekend on pay per view, returns to the city of Miami, oring to lower my shirt where my fucking one?

Well, that's low now, Jesus' avershot.

Well, that's low now, Jesus' avershot.

This is very prom I'm a very er, never a dull moment here on CBS Sports h Q. It is a welterweight down between Burns and Organe Monstit only.

This is very prom I'm a very er, never a dull moment here on CBS Sports h Q. It is a welterweight down between Burns and Organe Monstit only.

One of us post forty nice as.

One of us post forty nice as.

Morning Combats tour of South Florida would not be complete without a room service diaries. Sit down with our own in house Hall of Fame champion Sugar Rashad Evans. It's Brian Campbell, It's Luke Thomas, It's r. S. D here on the grounds of CBS Sports in Fort Lauderdale. But our guy is back in the sea. Pour some sugar on me in the name of love. Do you know that song was actually about sex?

Morning Combats tour of South Florida would not be complete without a room service diaries. Sit down with our own in house Hall of Fame champion Sugar Rashad Evans. It's Brian Campbell, It's Luke Thomas, It's r. S. D here on the grounds of CBS Sports in Fort Lauderdale. But our guy is back in the sea. Pour some sugar on me in the name of love. Do you know that song was actually about sex?

Yes?

Yes?

Yea Sugar Reshod. I mean, I've done a podcast with you for years. I know these great stories, but we appreciate you sitting down with us to tell a few of those, because you've had and are still having as a broadcaster in Ayahuasca Truther one hell of.

Yea Sugar Reshod. I mean, I've done a podcast with you for years. I know these great stories, but we appreciate you sitting down with us to tell a few of those, because you've had and are still having as a broadcaster in Ayahuasca Truther one hell of.

A career, absolutely, man, I've been still going, uh, you know, just been joining a ride and that's been you know, my my my mantra for the second half of my life, I say, second phase my life is just enjoy it, enjoyed the process. I feel like a lot of times as an athlete, I spent too much time worrying about the end result, the end result, to the point where I really missed a lot of the ride along the way because I'm too busy looking for ahead.

A career, absolutely, man, I've been still going, uh, you know, just been joining a ride and that's been you know, my my my mantra for the second half of my life, I say, second phase my life is just enjoy it, enjoyed the process. I feel like a lot of times as an athlete, I spent too much time worrying about the end result, the end result, to the point where I really missed a lot of the ride along the way because I'm too busy looking for ahead.

I feel like the same kind of way, I just want to get right to it if I can. Can we talk drugs as good as.

I feel like the same kind of way, I just want to get right to it if I can. Can we talk drugs as good as.

You're like, You're like if you could produce a toad right now?

You're like, You're like if you could produce a toad right now?

I want to be I want to be dead, ser I want to have I want to have an adult conversation with us. And I mean this in all sincerity. I will tell you that I have had it's done a lot of reading on this, and like not I've never experimented in the way that you have. But I certainly in no way bash it or think little of it. In fact, I think quite good of it. When did you realize, and I mean that serious, when did you realize that there were certain kinds of experiences, certain kinds of drugs and the combination of the two that could change the way you thought about yourself in a helpful and serious way.

I want to be I want to be dead, ser I want to have I want to have an adult conversation with us. And I mean this in all sincerity. I will tell you that I have had it's done a lot of reading on this, and like not I've never experimented in the way that you have. But I certainly in no way bash it or think little of it. In fact, I think quite good of it. When did you realize, and I mean that serious, when did you realize that there were certain kinds of experiences, certain kinds of drugs and the combination of the two that could change the way you thought about yourself in a helpful and serious way.

You know.

You know.

It really came to me when I did the Toad. When I did five E MEO DMT in twenty eighteen. It was after I lost a fight with Anthony Smith, and I've dialt with it and play with you know, mushrooms, psychedelic mushrooms at the time, but it didn't quite I'd never had that breakthrough, right you have They say you have a breakthrough when you just kind of like crash through what you understand consciousness to be and you start to see things differently. And when I did the Toad, which is five EO DMT se create it from the back of the Sonoran Desert Toad, that just completely changed everything. It was It was almost as if like I woke up in the middle of my life.

It really came to me when I did the Toad. When I did five E MEO DMT in twenty eighteen. It was after I lost a fight with Anthony Smith, and I've dialt with it and play with you know, mushrooms, psychedelic mushrooms at the time, but it didn't quite I'd never had that breakthrough, right you have They say you have a breakthrough when you just kind of like crash through what you understand consciousness to be and you start to see things differently. And when I did the Toad, which is five EO DMT se create it from the back of the Sonoran Desert Toad, that just completely changed everything. It was It was almost as if like I woke up in the middle of my life.

Okay, so let's take a step back. What prompted you to try that? Who helped you, like walk me through how you went from like I don't know anything about this to now I'm doing this toad.

Okay, so let's take a step back. What prompted you to try that? Who helped you, like walk me through how you went from like I don't know anything about this to now I'm doing this toad.

So I was towards the end of my career. I struggled. I lost five fights and roll. You guys know this, and that's.

So I was towards the end of my career. I struggled. I lost five fights and roll. You guys know this, and that's.

Sham sam Alv. I mean, damn right.

Sham sam Alv. I mean, damn right.

Sam Alvy every time? Yeah, yeah, then yes, then damn sam Alvi did. But I mean that's part of the journey that brought me to it, just not being able to have that breakthrough for myself and not come from that place of competing. Because for me, when I was competing at those times, I was like, it was therapy for me. But then it's the fight itself. Fighting was just it was therapy. It was how I worked out, you know, the issues that I had in my life. But there was a disconnect and I couldn't figure it out. So towards the end of my career, I started to look for answers. And the guy that I knew was like, I think I know something that might help you, and I was like, were skeptical. I was skeptical. I was skeptical because I didn't think that anything could top any of the experience that I had and I didn't really think that psychedelics were gonna do it, you know. So I was like, all right, I'll try it. And when I tried it, it was where was this It was.

Sam Alvy every time? Yeah, yeah, then yes, then damn sam Alvi did. But I mean that's part of the journey that brought me to it, just not being able to have that breakthrough for myself and not come from that place of competing. Because for me, when I was competing at those times, I was like, it was therapy for me. But then it's the fight itself. Fighting was just it was therapy. It was how I worked out, you know, the issues that I had in my life. But there was a disconnect and I couldn't figure it out. So towards the end of my career, I started to look for answers. And the guy that I knew was like, I think I know something that might help you, and I was like, were skeptical. I was skeptical. I was skeptical because I didn't think that anything could top any of the experience that I had and I didn't really think that psychedelics were gonna do it, you know. So I was like, all right, I'll try it. And when I tried it, it was where was this It was.

In Colorado, Okay, it was in the United States.

In Colorado, Okay, it was in the United States.

It was in the United States. It was in Colorado in like a cabin in the mountains, And.

It was in the United States. It was in Colorado in like a cabin in the mountains, And.

Was this like you know how Aaron Rodgers did, like the he did the Darkness Retreat. Was this like a retreat where they take people who are interested in some kind of experience and part of.

Was this like you know how Aaron Rodgers did, like the he did the Darkness Retreat. Was this like a retreat where they take people who are interested in some kind of experience and part of.

Joshua Fabia's camp.

Joshua Fabia's camp.

Yeah, exactly, But I'm serious, Like what was the process, Like what was the setting? I guess is what I mean.

Yeah, exactly, But I'm serious, Like what was the process, Like what was the setting? I guess is what I mean.

So the setting was it was a group of friends. It was probably about about ten of us, and we got a shaman and you know, we we went into my friend's cabin and he had the cabin some nice property in the mountains, and we just went outside, found a place and we just you know, explored, explored our consciousness. And I was never the same ever since.

So the setting was it was a group of friends. It was probably about about ten of us, and we got a shaman and you know, we we went into my friend's cabin and he had the cabin some nice property in the mountains, and we just went outside, found a place and we just you know, explored, explored our consciousness. And I was never the same ever since.

We don't know how much experimental drug psychedelic drugs can be used to combat PTSD and so many great things in the mental health field. It's now opening up new things, I think, as is marijuana in a lot of way. What sort of I mean, Look, professional fighting is not easy. You were able to become a UFC let heavyweight champion. You are in the UFC Hall of Fame. You've still got a great career in the sport as a broadcaster, coach, mentor all that. But like, is this life trauma? Is this trauma from the sport that led you to something here?

We don't know how much experimental drug psychedelic drugs can be used to combat PTSD and so many great things in the mental health field. It's now opening up new things, I think, as is marijuana in a lot of way. What sort of I mean, Look, professional fighting is not easy. You were able to become a UFC let heavyweight champion. You are in the UFC Hall of Fame. You've still got a great career in the sport as a broadcaster, coach, mentor all that. But like, is this life trauma? Is this trauma from the sport that led you to something here?

I would say a little bit of both. I would say a little bit of both. And I would say, you know, it's more of life trauma because the trauma and fighting. Yes, it's trauma getting disappointed and stuff like that, but it was it was more of the life trauma that I that I've had since, you know, growing up and not you know, I use fighting to deal with those issues a lot of times, but then fighting was not a big enough stick and to say and all honestly speaking, I kind of solved a lot of those problems just through fighting, you know, So I worked through a lot of those problems. But I felt as if like the more damage I was doing as I became this fighter who the world knew me as kind of caused more trauma. You know, I got divorce, out of the house with my two kids that I had my wife with, you know, living in Florida, they live in Illinois. Not being able to be the father that I want to be to them. You know, those are the kind of things that was eating at me at the end of the day, because no matter how successful I was, I failed. I failed in that aspect and I sustain that you can't wipe away. And it's something that for me, it hurt me at such a level because I was a product of a divorce and I knew what that meant for me growing up, you know, having in a strange relationship with my father. So I was kind of hurting the fact that I did this same same thing to my kids, and it was hard.

I would say a little bit of both. I would say a little bit of both. And I would say, you know, it's more of life trauma because the trauma and fighting. Yes, it's trauma getting disappointed and stuff like that, but it was it was more of the life trauma that I that I've had since, you know, growing up and not you know, I use fighting to deal with those issues a lot of times, but then fighting was not a big enough stick and to say and all honestly speaking, I kind of solved a lot of those problems just through fighting, you know, So I worked through a lot of those problems. But I felt as if like the more damage I was doing as I became this fighter who the world knew me as kind of caused more trauma. You know, I got divorce, out of the house with my two kids that I had my wife with, you know, living in Florida, they live in Illinois. Not being able to be the father that I want to be to them. You know, those are the kind of things that was eating at me at the end of the day, because no matter how successful I was, I failed. I failed in that aspect and I sustain that you can't wipe away. And it's something that for me, it hurt me at such a level because I was a product of a divorce and I knew what that meant for me growing up, you know, having in a strange relationship with my father. So I was kind of hurting the fact that I did this same same thing to my kids, and it was hard.

To deal with.

To deal with.

It was hard to deal with, But that was kind of some of the trauma that living the lifestyle member I talk about. You know, when you get to a certain level in a fight game, you start living a certain lifestyle. You start going to the parties, you start, you know, hooking up with the girls. You know, you start, you know, doing the drugs and all the other things that come along with just living. And it's great first at first, it's at first it's great and it's the best thing else.

It was hard to deal with, But that was kind of some of the trauma that living the lifestyle member I talk about. You know, when you get to a certain level in a fight game, you start living a certain lifestyle. You start going to the parties, you start, you know, hooking up with the girls. You know, you start, you know, doing the drugs and all the other things that come along with just living. And it's great first at first, it's at first it's great and it's the best thing else.

He would not know, Yeah, but at first it is awesome.

He would not know, Yeah, but at first it is awesome.

It's the best thing ever, And you're like, man, I wish I could do this, ever, but then you start doing it and then you realize that it's not so great and you can get so mentally convoluted you lose your way.

It's the best thing ever, And you're like, man, I wish I could do this, ever, but then you start doing it and then you realize that it's not so great and you can get so mentally convoluted you lose your way.

Okay, so help me understand in a basic way. What's the expression. Talk to me like I'm five right, tell me like I'm fansplaining. Man's playing to explain it, but hi ayahuasca explained. Tell me in the in the simplest terms, what the trip was like, and a little bit how long it lasted. And also on the other side, I want you to tell me the first thing that occurts you in terms of like the clarity and the understanding that it provided.

Okay, so help me understand in a basic way. What's the expression. Talk to me like I'm five right, tell me like I'm fansplaining. Man's playing to explain it, but hi ayahuasca explained. Tell me in the in the simplest terms, what the trip was like, and a little bit how long it lasted. And also on the other side, I want you to tell me the first thing that occurts you in terms of like the clarity and the understanding that it provided.

Yeah, so when you do this medicine, you know, you sit down with a shaman and you know the medicine itself, it's it's secretions from the back the toad, from the toad. So it's like they milk the gland and they pop it and it's on a glass and they scrape it and it looks like fish scales. So you smoke that, and when you smoke it, you feel like you died. You feel like you just died. And the first thing you probably say to yourself is, man, I just killed myself, which I did say. But then there was this moment where it all became clear to me. It all became like waking up from a dream, being in a strange environment, being like having to piece together everything that you know, how you get there, what'sh your name and everything like that. It became like one of those moments, and I started to remember being in this place. It was this place of just the most amazing bright light, almost as if I was in the sun. And then there was this feeling of love that just kind of almost took the feeling like the breath away from me. And then there was this feeling of just completeness and of there was nothing left to be done. Everything was okay, everything was gonna be okay, and everything has always been okay. And there was just this realization of just kind of like like my conscious consciousness expanded to the point where it almost felt as if like this experience is nothing but a dream. So I'm in this state and I'm in there for like seventeen minutes, and I'm going through just like the gamut of emotions, just riding this wave, and a lot of it is so incomprehensible because this place that I was at. It was nothing like anything here, because there was It's a non dual experience, meaning there's not me and anything else, it's only me, but I'm everything and nothing all at the same time. And it was the most mind boggling thing. So as I'm starting to come out of it, seventeen minutes later, I remember this feeling of just like like my heart being ripped out, and it felt as if like I was a little kid and my mom just walked out the door, and I'm crying and I'm screaming. I'm like, please don't go, Please don't go. And then I wake up and I'm looking at the sky and it's very pixelated and grainy, almost as if like it's a TV, like it's some kind of video game, and it's very pixelated and grainy, and then it just all starts to come together very clear, and at that moment I woke up and I just started crying. And I cried because I didn't I couldn't believe how complicated I made life.

Yeah, so when you do this medicine, you know, you sit down with a shaman and you know the medicine itself, it's it's secretions from the back the toad, from the toad. So it's like they milk the gland and they pop it and it's on a glass and they scrape it and it looks like fish scales. So you smoke that, and when you smoke it, you feel like you died. You feel like you just died. And the first thing you probably say to yourself is, man, I just killed myself, which I did say. But then there was this moment where it all became clear to me. It all became like waking up from a dream, being in a strange environment, being like having to piece together everything that you know, how you get there, what'sh your name and everything like that. It became like one of those moments, and I started to remember being in this place. It was this place of just the most amazing bright light, almost as if I was in the sun. And then there was this feeling of love that just kind of almost took the feeling like the breath away from me. And then there was this feeling of just completeness and of there was nothing left to be done. Everything was okay, everything was gonna be okay, and everything has always been okay. And there was just this realization of just kind of like like my conscious consciousness expanded to the point where it almost felt as if like this experience is nothing but a dream. So I'm in this state and I'm in there for like seventeen minutes, and I'm going through just like the gamut of emotions, just riding this wave, and a lot of it is so incomprehensible because this place that I was at. It was nothing like anything here, because there was It's a non dual experience, meaning there's not me and anything else, it's only me, but I'm everything and nothing all at the same time. And it was the most mind boggling thing. So as I'm starting to come out of it, seventeen minutes later, I remember this feeling of just like like my heart being ripped out, and it felt as if like I was a little kid and my mom just walked out the door, and I'm crying and I'm screaming. I'm like, please don't go, Please don't go. And then I wake up and I'm looking at the sky and it's very pixelated and grainy, almost as if like it's a TV, like it's some kind of video game, and it's very pixelated and grainy, and then it just all starts to come together very clear, and at that moment I woke up and I just started crying. And I cried because I didn't I couldn't believe how complicated I made life.

Like everything you were striving for was almost both bs or worthless, and this is what really, you know. I had a similar spiritual breakthrough when I was twenty five that didn't involve drugs, but was that physically mentally that exact experience, And it was quick and just like that, my life was changed. I was a different person. I knew the truth about a lot of things that had bothered been you know, bothering me and led to bad things. And it was just like, oh, like the jolt of yeah, oh this is how it really life is really yeah. And I appreciate you sharing it at this level because I knew you before and I know you now and you're always a great guy. But it's such a marked difference in one of my favorite people in this in this game, in this industry, and you know, we always talk about there sometimes not a lot of great people in this game, and it was this industry. This man is like blood in one of those I think that is incredible that you walk that out next.

Like everything you were striving for was almost both bs or worthless, and this is what really, you know. I had a similar spiritual breakthrough when I was twenty five that didn't involve drugs, but was that physically mentally that exact experience, And it was quick and just like that, my life was changed. I was a different person. I knew the truth about a lot of things that had bothered been you know, bothering me and led to bad things. And it was just like, oh, like the jolt of yeah, oh this is how it really life is really yeah. And I appreciate you sharing it at this level because I knew you before and I know you now and you're always a great guy. But it's such a marked difference in one of my favorite people in this in this game, in this industry, and you know, we always talk about there sometimes not a lot of great people in this game, and it was this industry. This man is like blood in one of those I think that is incredible that you walk that out next.

But what I'm curious about, like what it did in terms. It sounds like it changed a lot of your perspective, but did it change your actions?

But what I'm curious about, like what it did in terms. It sounds like it changed a lot of your perspective, but did it change your actions?

Subsequently, it ended up changing my actions because you know, you are what you think, and you know I think in the same way, your actions will inevitably change. And that's what happened to me, like things that didn't serve me anymore just fell away as if like I never did them before, I never had interest before. One was was drinking alcohol. You know, I stopped drinking alcohol. Not that I think alcohol is bad, but for me, it led me to a place where I was doing a lot of bad things in the cyclical behavior that kind of led me in depression and everything else like that. So I just stopped doing it. And it wasn't like I was like, Okay, I'm gonna stop doing it. Like I couldn't stomach drinking alcohol no more, Like when I drink alcohol, I'll take a sip and I'll violently throw up. It was like my body said no more. And the same thing was for for like you know, I used to be. I used to be a ladies man in a sense, I mean, for lack of better words, ladies man. You know, I had I had a couple here and there. I won't say anything to incriminate myself, you know, but you know, you know I had some good times. But once I had that experience, I could no longer do that anymore. It was just to the point where I was like it just it just fell away from I just had no interest in anymore, and I had a bunch of different things start to happen to me like that even stop eating meat, and you.

Subsequently, it ended up changing my actions because you know, you are what you think, and you know I think in the same way, your actions will inevitably change. And that's what happened to me, like things that didn't serve me anymore just fell away as if like I never did them before, I never had interest before. One was was drinking alcohol. You know, I stopped drinking alcohol. Not that I think alcohol is bad, but for me, it led me to a place where I was doing a lot of bad things in the cyclical behavior that kind of led me in depression and everything else like that. So I just stopped doing it. And it wasn't like I was like, Okay, I'm gonna stop doing it. Like I couldn't stomach drinking alcohol no more, Like when I drink alcohol, I'll take a sip and I'll violently throw up. It was like my body said no more. And the same thing was for for like you know, I used to be. I used to be a ladies man in a sense, I mean, for lack of better words, ladies man. You know, I had I had a couple here and there. I won't say anything to incriminate myself, you know, but you know, you know I had some good times. But once I had that experience, I could no longer do that anymore. It was just to the point where I was like it just it just fell away from I just had no interest in anymore, and I had a bunch of different things start to happen to me like that even stop eating meat, and you.

Told me that it was It was literally like night and day. And we always say you're in such incredible shape, and you know you could. You look like you could get back in there if you ever want to again, and you recently did. Congratulations for that eagle f Sea Wind. But like you could even stomach the idea of meat ever again, right, just not even not even I never craved it again, even when I smell it sometimes kind of like you know, it doesn't it doesn't make me hungry, you know how like you smell meat with something when like that doesn't make me hungry.

Told me that it was It was literally like night and day. And we always say you're in such incredible shape, and you know you could. You look like you could get back in there if you ever want to again, and you recently did. Congratulations for that eagle f Sea Wind. But like you could even stomach the idea of meat ever again, right, just not even not even I never craved it again, even when I smell it sometimes kind of like you know, it doesn't it doesn't make me hungry, you know how like you smell meat with something when like that doesn't make me hungry.

Okay, But here's my question. Then, imagine you had done that experience before the Ultimate Fighter, you would be there shot Evans that we knew today. It sounds like it sounds like I mean, I often wonder about this, like how many guys get into fighting because they've just got unresolved issues. Yeah, you know I would you wouldn't You wouldn't have fought, would you.

Okay, But here's my question. Then, imagine you had done that experience before the Ultimate Fighter, you would be there shot Evans that we knew today. It sounds like it sounds like I mean, I often wonder about this, like how many guys get into fighting because they've just got unresolved issues. Yeah, you know I would you wouldn't You wouldn't have fought, would you.

I don't know if I would have fought, you know, And I came back to fighting Eagle FC because of the fact that something happened to me once I did the medicine that allowed me to compete again from a place which I stopped competing from, and that was the fun aspect there. I wasn't having any fun anymore. I wasn't enjoying the process anymore. I wasn't enjoying the mental games that I played with myself along the way to make it to a fight, you know, like say, okay, if I don't run, you know, ten times up the street and then sprint five afterwards, then I'm not gonna win his fights. And that's the kind of game that I would play with myself. But it was just for fun, you know. And I would think along the way, me having my arms raised. I started doing that again. So it made me enjoy the processes.

I don't know if I would have fought, you know, And I came back to fighting Eagle FC because of the fact that something happened to me once I did the medicine that allowed me to compete again from a place which I stopped competing from, and that was the fun aspect there. I wasn't having any fun anymore. I wasn't enjoying the process anymore. I wasn't enjoying the mental games that I played with myself along the way to make it to a fight, you know, like say, okay, if I don't run, you know, ten times up the street and then sprint five afterwards, then I'm not gonna win his fights. And that's the kind of game that I would play with myself. But it was just for fun, you know. And I would think along the way, me having my arms raised. I started doing that again. So it made me enjoy the processes.

More and made me.

More and made me.

Understand that to be able to express myself like this and to be able to have a chance to fight is a gift. I started looking at everything as a gift, like, oh man, I'm so lucky I get to do it. So it made me want to fight in that aspect, But I don't know if it would have been my truest expression to fight because the fact that I've I've got such a huge emotional block off me. You know, when I was fighting, I had such a chip on my shoulder. I had such a mindset where I was uncivilized. You know, I had the uncivilized mindset. And you know, they say it feels as if like I became a little too civilized during my career towards the end.

Understand that to be able to express myself like this and to be able to have a chance to fight is a gift. I started looking at everything as a gift, like, oh man, I'm so lucky I get to do it. So it made me want to fight in that aspect, But I don't know if it would have been my truest expression to fight because the fact that I've I've got such a huge emotional block off me. You know, when I was fighting, I had such a chip on my shoulder. I had such a mindset where I was uncivilized. You know, I had the uncivilized mindset. And you know, they say it feels as if like I became a little too civilized during my career towards the end.

I've seen that from certain fighters. I mean, you mentioned the religious awakening, but I can't tell if it's a chicken or an egg kind of thing. You see, fighters get a little bitwards the end of their career, and sometimes I've seen like they get a little bit more religiously observant, whichever version of that they care for. And I can't tell if they are they going to that because they something has changed, or because in finding that it not humbles them in a bad sense but actually in the good sense. Yeah, I can never tell which situation. But you often see towards the end people finding these kinds of like meaningful connections to the world a little bit.

I've seen that from certain fighters. I mean, you mentioned the religious awakening, but I can't tell if it's a chicken or an egg kind of thing. You see, fighters get a little bitwards the end of their career, and sometimes I've seen like they get a little bit more religiously observant, whichever version of that they care for. And I can't tell if they are they going to that because they something has changed, or because in finding that it not humbles them in a bad sense but actually in the good sense. Yeah, I can never tell which situation. But you often see towards the end people finding these kinds of like meaningful connections to the world a little bit.

Yeah, it changes a lot of things. Like the way I put it is the fact that like when I was on top and I was doing my thing. Fighting was the most important thing in my life, and then life was just extra on the outside, but everything was all about fighting. But then it got to the point where once I got injured a couple of times, life started taking precedent and then my training and my fighting became something that I added on afterwards, so it became more of an after effect. But when you're in a game like fighting, you got to be married to it. You got to be married to this game. That has to be your wife, That has to be your mistress, That has to be what you go to sleep thinking about. You know, it has to be such a part out of your fabric because you're going against guys and gals who have that mindset. That mindset is they're so ambitious, they're so hungry for it, and they think about those things naturally. So if you're not thinking like that, then you're gonna get passed up. I love when you break down the mindset of the fighter. And just so you know, that's actually these cameras aren't even on.

Yeah, it changes a lot of things. Like the way I put it is the fact that like when I was on top and I was doing my thing. Fighting was the most important thing in my life, and then life was just extra on the outside, but everything was all about fighting. But then it got to the point where once I got injured a couple of times, life started taking precedent and then my training and my fighting became something that I added on afterwards, so it became more of an after effect. But when you're in a game like fighting, you got to be married to it. You got to be married to this game. That has to be your wife, That has to be your mistress, That has to be what you go to sleep thinking about. You know, it has to be such a part out of your fabric because you're going against guys and gals who have that mindset. That mindset is they're so ambitious, they're so hungry for it, and they think about those things naturally. So if you're not thinking like that, then you're gonna get passed up. I love when you break down the mindset of the fighter. And just so you know, that's actually these cameras aren't even on.

This is an intervention. We've got to I got the twenty thirteen V Tour needle ready. Okay, all right, we're gonna turn this life around.

This is an intervention. We've got to I got the twenty thirteen V Tour needle ready. Okay, all right, we're gonna turn this life around.

You know I could help, yeah, help.

You know I could help, yeah, help.

Oh Rashad to get to that life change. In all, you built a hell of a career. But I gotta say in how people look at you now and talk about you, you got this like uncle Rashad vibe. You're like like a you know, if this was pro wrestling, you're like one of the good guys. People are like, yeah, that's shot. Like do you kind of like being that combination of like, I don't know, to the UFC, they must look at you as you know, hall of fame or former champion, But you've always been charismatic. You've always been bubbly fans like they love them Summershod and are you happy with that sort of way people look at.

Oh Rashad to get to that life change. In all, you built a hell of a career. But I gotta say in how people look at you now and talk about you, you got this like uncle Rashad vibe. You're like like a you know, if this was pro wrestling, you're like one of the good guys. People are like, yeah, that's shot. Like do you kind of like being that combination of like, I don't know, to the UFC, they must look at you as you know, hall of fame or former champion, But you've always been charismatic. You've always been bubbly fans like they love them Summershod and are you happy with that sort of way people look at.

You know, I truly am and I never really knew how I was going to be taken by the fans, especially from the way I started. You know, remember Rampage Boo that.

You know, I truly am and I never really knew how I was going to be taken by the fans, especially from the way I started. You know, remember Rampage Boo that.

Man and everybody was boo like crazy, But I was Matthews getting mad at you for show voting on the own.

Man and everybody was boo like crazy, But I was Matthews getting mad at you for show voting on the own.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was booed for the longest time and people hated me for the longest time. But it's good to see that that turnaround. It's good to feel that appreciation. It's good to get your flowers. And when I became Hall of Fame, that's something I didn't expect to hit me right here, right it It hit me in the heart where I didn't feel that or I didn't think that it would prior, and it was all about just everybody just let me know how much they appreciated me. And it really made me feel as if, no matter how bad I feel things got in my mind in my career, I never left their hearts. They still had love for men, and it really made it worth it in another level for myself.

I was booed for the longest time and people hated me for the longest time. But it's good to see that that turnaround. It's good to feel that appreciation. It's good to get your flowers. And when I became Hall of Fame, that's something I didn't expect to hit me right here, right it It hit me in the heart where I didn't feel that or I didn't think that it would prior, and it was all about just everybody just let me know how much they appreciated me. And it really made me feel as if, no matter how bad I feel things got in my mind in my career, I never left their hearts. They still had love for men, and it really made it worth it in another level for myself.

You know, I can believe it when you look back at your I guess your career in general, certainly your UFC run. Let's talk about the good stuff, right like what Okay, one of the title probably means the most, but I'm guess I'm wondering, like, is there something other than that that sends out to you as a moment that you're like really proud of or just just felt so good?

You know, I can believe it when you look back at your I guess your career in general, certainly your UFC run. Let's talk about the good stuff, right like what Okay, one of the title probably means the most, but I'm guess I'm wondering, like, is there something other than that that sends out to you as a moment that you're like really proud of or just just felt so good?

You know? It's the title was one thing, but it was it was beating Chuck Ladell, you know, and and not even so much for the knockout, but it was just me overcoming myself. That was the first time that I've overcame myself to the point where I quieted that voice in my mind that brought the doubts to the table, that was super afraid and kind of like, you know, like I could be like that. Sometimes I wouldn't even eat. I'll be so nervous that I wouldn't even eat. Greg Jackson, I'm Mike Winkle Johnny like, dude, you got to eat something before you go down and fight. And I'm like, I'm just not hungry. You know, there was a thing about they would have to make me eat a little bit every hour because I wouldn't eat anything. I was famous for that, so I would let my nerves get the best of me. But for that fight, it just came together. And you know that was the Randy Couture talk when he gave me to talk like, yo, you gotta just accept the worst outcome. You got to make friends this. Yeah. Before the night before I fought Chucked down in Atlanta, I was so nervous, and I pushed nerves away. But then it got to me at ways. I'm looking in his eyes and Chuck was looking crazy as hell. So I'm like, oh, my god, he's gonna kill me tomorrow. What did I get myself into? Right? And uh, it's started to occur to me why everybody was giving me that look every single time I got you know, I told him how to fight chuckle there, like okay, good luck.

You know? It's the title was one thing, but it was it was beating Chuck Ladell, you know, and and not even so much for the knockout, but it was just me overcoming myself. That was the first time that I've overcame myself to the point where I quieted that voice in my mind that brought the doubts to the table, that was super afraid and kind of like, you know, like I could be like that. Sometimes I wouldn't even eat. I'll be so nervous that I wouldn't even eat. Greg Jackson, I'm Mike Winkle Johnny like, dude, you got to eat something before you go down and fight. And I'm like, I'm just not hungry. You know, there was a thing about they would have to make me eat a little bit every hour because I wouldn't eat anything. I was famous for that, so I would let my nerves get the best of me. But for that fight, it just came together. And you know that was the Randy Couture talk when he gave me to talk like, yo, you gotta just accept the worst outcome. You got to make friends this. Yeah. Before the night before I fought Chucked down in Atlanta, I was so nervous, and I pushed nerves away. But then it got to me at ways. I'm looking in his eyes and Chuck was looking crazy as hell. So I'm like, oh, my god, he's gonna kill me tomorrow. What did I get myself into? Right? And uh, it's started to occur to me why everybody was giving me that look every single time I got you know, I told him how to fight chuckle there, like okay, good luck.

You know.

You know.

I was starting to feel that feeling. So I had got so nervous to the point where I hit up Randy Cotour and he happened to be one floor below me, and I went to his room and I'm like, Randy, I'm I'm scared and I'm scared and I'm flailing the boatle on this bed, and Randy's just cool and calm as ever. He's like laughing a little bit, and he's like, all right, you know, the problem is you just got to make friends of the worst outcome, you know. And I was in the locker room, dressingroom Randy Couture when he got separated from consciousness with Chuck Ldale. So I'm kind of like, yo, he knocked out my guy, you know. So I'm I was a little nervous, but when he told me that just free myself and let me, you know, make friends the worst I'll come that night, I stayed in the mirror. I was in the mirror. I was like just cussing myself out, like I don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck, And I was not not afraid of anything, just like saying it over and over to myself too. I started to believe it. And then when I went out there the next day to fight, I was so hyped up that I forgot my jockstrap. No worries, No worries. I had a teammate in the card Nate Markcourt, he just fought two fights before, and I wore his wet jockstrap out there.

I was starting to feel that feeling. So I had got so nervous to the point where I hit up Randy Cotour and he happened to be one floor below me, and I went to his room and I'm like, Randy, I'm I'm scared and I'm scared and I'm flailing the boatle on this bed, and Randy's just cool and calm as ever. He's like laughing a little bit, and he's like, all right, you know, the problem is you just got to make friends of the worst outcome, you know. And I was in the locker room, dressingroom Randy Couture when he got separated from consciousness with Chuck Ldale. So I'm kind of like, yo, he knocked out my guy, you know. So I'm I was a little nervous, but when he told me that just free myself and let me, you know, make friends the worst I'll come that night, I stayed in the mirror. I was in the mirror. I was like just cussing myself out, like I don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck, And I was not not afraid of anything, just like saying it over and over to myself too. I started to believe it. And then when I went out there the next day to fight, I was so hyped up that I forgot my jockstrap. No worries, No worries. I had a teammate in the card Nate Markcourt, he just fought two fights before, and I wore his wet jockstrap out there.

So wet nasty. Wait, is it the same sign? I mean, I don't know how this was tight. It was. I heard what Chobbs said about him. I've heard that.

So wet nasty. Wait, is it the same sign? I mean, I don't know how this was tight. It was. I heard what Chobbs said about him. I've heard that.

I've heard that.

I've heard that.

Heard it.

Heard it.

Okay, you heard him say that, dude, didn't you.

Okay, you heard him say that, dude, didn't you.

Yeah, I've heard I've heard it. I've heard it. But yeah, I wore that dirty jockstrap. And that was part of the process too, because that's another thing. It's about letting go. And I figured out like whenever I competed at my best, it was one else able to let go the most. Yeah, And that's a life lesson.

Yeah, I've heard I've heard it. I've heard it. But yeah, I wore that dirty jockstrap. And that was part of the process too, because that's another thing. It's about letting go. And I figured out like whenever I competed at my best, it was one else able to let go the most. Yeah, And that's a life lesson.

It's you know, it's hard to maintain at that level, but god, you maintained it that night. I almost think that's in a weird way, like, I mean, that's your best win. I mean, I know you won the championship in the next fight, you won the Ultimate Fighter. Like You've done a lot of good stuff. You did a million pay per view buys with Rampage. I mean, you thought John Jones and heard him late and we'll get to that, But that night it may have just been where you were the best version you ever could have been, but you like violently knocked out the baddest man we have ever seen in the history of the sport. And I'll never forget that sound. Dude, you remember watching that one?

It's you know, it's hard to maintain at that level, but god, you maintained it that night. I almost think that's in a weird way, like, I mean, that's your best win. I mean, I know you won the championship in the next fight, you won the Ultimate Fighter. Like You've done a lot of good stuff. You did a million pay per view buys with Rampage. I mean, you thought John Jones and heard him late and we'll get to that, But that night it may have just been where you were the best version you ever could have been, but you like violently knocked out the baddest man we have ever seen in the history of the sport. And I'll never forget that sound. Dude, you remember watching that one?

You never watched it. I've had buddies of mine who went to that show. They drove from DC to Atlanta, and they wanted me to go. I couldn't also have to work, and uh, and I remember they were big Chuck Ladell fans, and uh, I had, for what it's worth, I was like, oh, Wishad's gonna win this one. I had no, man, no, but I did not know it was going to go the way that it actually went where you just here's what I'll never forget, and I want to get your impression bout this. I remember after you hit him the thing that stuck out to me the most, and you don't actually see it that much these days, but I'll never forget you hit him with that shot. He goes face down and you could have heard except for your I think it was your wife at the time, you could have heard a fucking pin drop. I mean, Atlanta was. They could not believe what they were looking at. And even I was like and then and then I remember this shot. I don't think I remember this the old red fox. And I was like, wow, because it took you a second, right, you didn't celebrate right right away. It was like, were like, yeah, you know, it took you a second.

You never watched it. I've had buddies of mine who went to that show. They drove from DC to Atlanta, and they wanted me to go. I couldn't also have to work, and uh, and I remember they were big Chuck Ladell fans, and uh, I had, for what it's worth, I was like, oh, Wishad's gonna win this one. I had no, man, no, but I did not know it was going to go the way that it actually went where you just here's what I'll never forget, and I want to get your impression bout this. I remember after you hit him the thing that stuck out to me the most, and you don't actually see it that much these days, but I'll never forget you hit him with that shot. He goes face down and you could have heard except for your I think it was your wife at the time, you could have heard a fucking pin drop. I mean, Atlanta was. They could not believe what they were looking at. And even I was like and then and then I remember this shot. I don't think I remember this the old red fox. And I was like, wow, because it took you a second, right, you didn't celebrate right right away. It was like, were like, yeah, you know, it took you a second.

No, I wanted so I hit him, and I wanted to go over and check and check on him, but because of the state he was in, they wanted to keep the cameras away. So when they were like I went over to him, they pushed me away like no, no, no go, So they had the cameras on me. So I was like, that's why I did this. First, I was like, I don't know what to do, and I was like, I can't believe it.

No, I wanted so I hit him, and I wanted to go over and check and check on him, but because of the state he was in, they wanted to keep the cameras away. So when they were like I went over to him, they pushed me away like no, no, no go, So they had the cameras on me. So I was like, that's why I did this. First, I was like, I don't know what to do, and I was like, I can't believe it.

You know, have you ever run into Chuck Ladell like years later been like sorry about that.

You know, have you ever run into Chuck Ladell like years later been like sorry about that.

By the way, me and Chuck Ladell are actually good friends. Man. I've hung out with Chuck many times and we've We've had many great parties and many great party experiences together. Chuck is probably one of the best guys in the sport. You know, He's a great guy, a great friend of mine. And I kind of feel bad though, you know, I kind of feel bad, like I don't like talking about like somebody see us together and they're like, oh man, when you fought Chuck and tucks right next to him, was.

By the way, me and Chuck Ladell are actually good friends. Man. I've hung out with Chuck many times and we've We've had many great parties and many great party experiences together. Chuck is probably one of the best guys in the sport. You know, He's a great guy, a great friend of mine. And I kind of feel bad though, you know, I kind of feel bad, like I don't like talking about like somebody see us together and they're like, oh man, when you fought Chuck and tucks right next to him, was.

Like, yeah, it's a little weird.

Like, yeah, it's a little weird.

Well, he had already been knocked out by Rampage, but he was still that dude in that fight, and I think you took a lot of what was left, you know what I mean. And I know it still it didn't even be.

Well, he had already been knocked out by Rampage, but he was still that dude in that fight, and I think you took a lot of what was left, you know what I mean. And I know it still it didn't even be.

Violent that also, like, yeah, like Rampage knocked him out, but it wasn't the way that he knocked him out.

Violent that also, like, yeah, like Rampage knocked him out, but it wasn't the way that he knocked him out.

So so we know what that did to sort of slide what he had built. But did you like how quickly. Did you realize that that was going to be like for your career changing, like like life changing moment. Yeah, like that that lockout came just as the sport was peeking through on Sports Illustrated cover, like largely because of Chuck and then Rampage, but it's like that was still a large moment in the building of the brand at the same time, Like did you know instantly, like, oh, it's never going to be the same Now.

So so we know what that did to sort of slide what he had built. But did you like how quickly. Did you realize that that was going to be like for your career changing, like like life changing moment. Yeah, like that that lockout came just as the sport was peeking through on Sports Illustrated cover, like largely because of Chuck and then Rampage, but it's like that was still a large moment in the building of the brand at the same time, Like did you know instantly, like, oh, it's never going to be the same Now.

I knew it wasn't going to be the same the minute I walked out the tunnel. The song I came out to was called Immortal was a mortal technique pointed no return, and in that song he says, the place that I'm from doesn't exist anymore. And I knew, no matter what happened at night, my life would never be the same, either be the guy who beat Chucklerdale or the guy who got milliated by Chuck Ladell. But I was never going to be the guy who was before I walked out. I was never gonna be that guy again. So that was another thing for me to say, I gotta let go, and it was all about I'm letting go whatever happens happened, and there's something so beautiful and so peaceful about truly letting go its. Someone says, if like I would visualize myself just like just doing a back dive, just falling off a cliff and just allowing myself to just whatever happens happens, I will mentally visualize myself doing that over and over again, to just like just let go and let let it happen.

I knew it wasn't going to be the same the minute I walked out the tunnel. The song I came out to was called Immortal was a mortal technique pointed no return, and in that song he says, the place that I'm from doesn't exist anymore. And I knew, no matter what happened at night, my life would never be the same, either be the guy who beat Chucklerdale or the guy who got milliated by Chuck Ladell. But I was never going to be the guy who was before I walked out. I was never gonna be that guy again. So that was another thing for me to say, I gotta let go, and it was all about I'm letting go whatever happens happened, and there's something so beautiful and so peaceful about truly letting go its. Someone says, if like I would visualize myself just like just doing a back dive, just falling off a cliff and just allowing myself to just whatever happens happens, I will mentally visualize myself doing that over and over again, to just like just let go and let let it happen.

And did they give you a paper bag bonus in the back too?

And did they give you a paper bag bonus in the back too?

It was like, oh, back in the yeah. Yeah. So the next morning, see, they used to take care of us back in the day. Back in the day, man, they'll come through with these backroom bonuses that I used to get. They came in cut me a check for three hundred and seventy five K at breakfast the next day, and I feel like, God, I never seen that kind of money before. And the crazy part about it was before that fight happened, I took a new contract signing and I didn't want to sign it and I was like, I don't want to sign this. I think I'm worth more, and they said listen, because I was supposed to fight him in London, but it didn't happen. Because we didn't work out a deal. So they said, just sign a contract and if you win this fight, we'll make it right. So I'm like, all right, we'll see you now after I want to fight. I was like, are they going to make it right? And you know what, they damn sure did make it right. Damn right. They kept their word.

It was like, oh, back in the yeah. Yeah. So the next morning, see, they used to take care of us back in the day. Back in the day, man, they'll come through with these backroom bonuses that I used to get. They came in cut me a check for three hundred and seventy five K at breakfast the next day, and I feel like, God, I never seen that kind of money before. And the crazy part about it was before that fight happened, I took a new contract signing and I didn't want to sign it and I was like, I don't want to sign this. I think I'm worth more, and they said listen, because I was supposed to fight him in London, but it didn't happen. Because we didn't work out a deal. So they said, just sign a contract and if you win this fight, we'll make it right. So I'm like, all right, we'll see you now after I want to fight. I was like, are they going to make it right? And you know what, they damn sure did make it right. Damn right. They kept their word.

Man, that obviously was like a life changing moment financially star wise. Do you look back now? I mean you had to have blown a certain amount of that check on, Like, what would we do if we got super famous and rich tomorrow? We'd buy something really stupid that we would regret instantly.

Man, that obviously was like a life changing moment financially star wise. Do you look back now? I mean you had to have blown a certain amount of that check on, Like, what would we do if we got super famous and rich tomorrow? We'd buy something really stupid that we would regret instantly.

Right, Delta.

Right, Delta.

It's well, you know they always say, like if you own a boat, the best day of bone ownership is the day you buy it the day you sell it. What did you buy looking back there?

It's well, you know they always say, like if you own a boat, the best day of bone ownership is the day you buy it the day you sell it. What did you buy looking back there?

Like I bought a house I bought Yeah, I bought a house man in Illinois, and I didn't I didn't go crazy with it, just uh, you know, just bought a house with it.

Like I bought a house I bought Yeah, I bought a house man in Illinois, and I didn't I didn't go crazy with it, just uh, you know, just bought a house with it.

Did you make the kind of money you want to make? And what I mean by that is everyone always wants to make more? But were you satisfied in the end that, like, hey, I made X amount in a fighting career at this time in the sport because obviously now it's a little bit different.

Did you make the kind of money you want to make? And what I mean by that is everyone always wants to make more? But were you satisfied in the end that, like, hey, I made X amount in a fighting career at this time in the sport because obviously now it's a little bit different.

Yeah, I've made I made a great amount of money, you know, considering the time that it was. You know, there's you know, I've you know, they've they've written me checks for you know, after the Rampage fight for like, you know, like one point five million on top of what I was already getting paid. You know, So they they looked out. Man, they they've always and that's the thing, Like, there's this thing with the UFC where you know, they're known for not paying their fighters and stuff, but they went above and beyond for me at the time when they they really didn't have to, you know, because the contract was a contract. But they always looked out and gave me more.

Yeah, I've made I made a great amount of money, you know, considering the time that it was. You know, there's you know, I've you know, they've they've written me checks for you know, after the Rampage fight for like, you know, like one point five million on top of what I was already getting paid. You know, So they they looked out. Man, they they've always and that's the thing, Like, there's this thing with the UFC where you know, they're known for not paying their fighters and stuff, but they went above and beyond for me at the time when they they really didn't have to, you know, because the contract was a contract. But they always looked out and gave me more.

I definitely feel like there are guys that they take care of. Right, you have to be in that inner circle.

I definitely feel like there are guys that they take care of. Right, you have to be in that inner circle.

I mean, you got to be part of the family lives and you gotta be part of the family. Come on, what are you doing?

I mean, you got to be part of the family lives and you gotta be part of the family. Come on, what are you doing?

Did the money make you feel like you were part of the inner circle? Like from UFC? Was it the way that they paid you? Like great knock out here a fat check.

Did the money make you feel like you were part of the inner circle? Like from UFC? Was it the way that they paid you? Like great knock out here a fat check.

It's it's it's the back room bonuses. But it's just the way the way that they treat me. You know, they always include me. They you know, they've always uh made me part of the team. You know, Lorenzo Fertita is the one who bought me my first expensive suits at tom Ford. He went and bought like five and you know, and you know he came and picked me up and we had a great day together. And you know, he showed me what to get his style and what I should wear. And he didn't have to do that, but what it was, you know, they looked out all right.

It's it's it's the back room bonuses. But it's just the way the way that they treat me. You know, they always include me. They you know, they've always uh made me part of the team. You know, Lorenzo Fertita is the one who bought me my first expensive suits at tom Ford. He went and bought like five and you know, and you know he came and picked me up and we had a great day together. And you know, he showed me what to get his style and what I should wear. And he didn't have to do that, but what it was, you know, they looked out all right.

All right, Now, look not the first champion, but is he the first African American star in UFC?

All right, Now, look not the first champion, but is he the first African American star in UFC?

Because because people.

Because because people.

Forget that, like you did, WILLI pay per view buys? You had a few pay per views in a row where that were like you need the title with Rampage, I mean you had someone.

Forget that, like you did, WILLI pay per view buys? You had a few pay per views in a row where that were like you need the title with Rampage, I mean you had someone.

How you feel about that because there were some interesting names before. Maybe they were not in your level, but there were something like real pioneers. I honestly count Shoony Carter a little bit in that role. Obviously, Eugene Jackson was in that role. Kevin Jackson you know, there were some other figures. Obviously, Rampage was around Kevin Kevin Randlman and who can forget the monster Kevin Randlman. But still you feel like, do you feel like you play a pretty big role because here's the thing, dude, we go to boxing fights and there's like the only white people there are us, and then we go to MMA fight and it's like the only black people there are like the fighters. Yeah, I'm exaggerating in either direction.

How you feel about that because there were some interesting names before. Maybe they were not in your level, but there were something like real pioneers. I honestly count Shoony Carter a little bit in that role. Obviously, Eugene Jackson was in that role. Kevin Jackson you know, there were some other figures. Obviously, Rampage was around Kevin Kevin Randlman and who can forget the monster Kevin Randlman. But still you feel like, do you feel like you play a pretty big role because here's the thing, dude, we go to boxing fights and there's like the only white people there are us, and then we go to MMA fight and it's like the only black people there are like the fighters. Yeah, I'm exaggerating in either direction.

But you know, no, I know exactly what you're saying. Yeah, I feel like I definitely was one of the pioneer uh you know, black athletes. But I felt as if like my success and when I was able to bring to the table was piggybacked off of the work that each and every single one of those fighters did you know, they kept, you know, kind of helping paved the way out. Was close with Shony and those guys all the way up until you know, for my whole my whole career, and they would, you know, kind of give me, give me the lessons, you know, because there are some taxes that you got to pay. You know, there's some tax that you got to pay. And people would say some crazy stuff to me, like you know, the N word, and you know they would they would email me to no, no, not not in person. Not in person. They are like you know, on social media, on social media, they're just you know, cursed me out and you know, say the most vile things ever. But it's all, it's all part of it. And I always I always wanted to be looked at as a fighter and not a black fighter. Yeah, you know, not saying that I didn't value being black. I didn't value my impact, but I knew that I was more than just being a black fighter. You know, I was more. I wasn't good just because I was athletic. I'm saying, like I know a lot of times that you know, you listen to the commentary back in the day, they're like, oh, you know, he's athletic, and it's the explosive. Yeah, it's it's these terms that we use for black athletes and white athletes that are kind of you know, uh, racially coloring without even even doing it. But it's just a societal thing, you know. And you know, now I feel like we've grown enough in a sport where it's beyond that fighters are looked at for their skill level. And you know, if they're athletic, they're athletic, you know, but they're not. They're not only good because they're black because they're athletics.

But you know, no, I know exactly what you're saying. Yeah, I feel like I definitely was one of the pioneer uh you know, black athletes. But I felt as if like my success and when I was able to bring to the table was piggybacked off of the work that each and every single one of those fighters did you know, they kept, you know, kind of helping paved the way out. Was close with Shony and those guys all the way up until you know, for my whole my whole career, and they would, you know, kind of give me, give me the lessons, you know, because there are some taxes that you got to pay. You know, there's some tax that you got to pay. And people would say some crazy stuff to me, like you know, the N word, and you know they would they would email me to no, no, not not in person. Not in person. They are like you know, on social media, on social media, they're just you know, cursed me out and you know, say the most vile things ever. But it's all, it's all part of it. And I always I always wanted to be looked at as a fighter and not a black fighter. Yeah, you know, not saying that I didn't value being black. I didn't value my impact, but I knew that I was more than just being a black fighter. You know, I was more. I wasn't good just because I was athletic. I'm saying, like I know a lot of times that you know, you listen to the commentary back in the day, they're like, oh, you know, he's athletic, and it's the explosive. Yeah, it's it's these terms that we use for black athletes and white athletes that are kind of you know, uh, racially coloring without even even doing it. But it's just a societal thing, you know. And you know, now I feel like we've grown enough in a sport where it's beyond that fighters are looked at for their skill level. And you know, if they're athletic, they're athletic, you know, but they're not. They're not only good because they're black because they're athletics.

Right. Fair enough, When you look back on your career and you look at the move from Jackson's to South Florida, basically, could you, in your own words, put into context just how how much did your life change by virtue of that.

Right. Fair enough, When you look back on your career and you look at the move from Jackson's to South Florida, basically, could you, in your own words, put into context just how how much did your life change by virtue of that.

It was it was the biggest change in my life. And I'll say that because you know, I was going through a divorce at the time.

It was it was the biggest change in my life. And I'll say that because you know, I was going through a divorce at the time.

With during the move.

With during the move.

From the move, yes, it was like I broke up with the jackson team and then my best friend who was my wife, we were we were split up, and I was just like in this place of like Jones, Yeah, with John Jones, you know, And it was it was it was a very very tough time my life. So that transition was a very it was a very tough transition. And I didn't I don't feel like looking back, like I gave myself enough time to to feel, you know, and it was something that for me, I didn't feel the effects of that so viscerally until I had time when I hurt my knee and then life caught up to me, you know, all the things that I just kind of stayed busy to forget, now when started to catch up to me. And then that's when, you know, things started to become remarkably harder in my life. And then to turn and fighting.

From the move, yes, it was like I broke up with the jackson team and then my best friend who was my wife, we were we were split up, and I was just like in this place of like Jones, Yeah, with John Jones, you know, And it was it was it was a very very tough time my life. So that transition was a very it was a very tough transition. And I didn't I don't feel like looking back, like I gave myself enough time to to feel, you know, and it was something that for me, I didn't feel the effects of that so viscerally until I had time when I hurt my knee and then life caught up to me, you know, all the things that I just kind of stayed busy to forget, now when started to catch up to me. And then that's when, you know, things started to become remarkably harder in my life. And then to turn and fighting.

Still though, to move to South Florida, I feel like, I don't know, it was an interesting pivot at the time. What do you think your what do you think the legacy of your move down here has been?

Still though, to move to South Florida, I feel like, I don't know, it was an interesting pivot at the time. What do you think your what do you think the legacy of your move down here has been?

You know, with my legacy, you know, I've I've created such a great thing here with with these athletes. You know, I've I've I've given birth to a lot of people's careers.

You know, with my legacy, you know, I've I've created such a great thing here with with these athletes. You know, I've I've I've given birth to a lot of people's careers.

You know.

You know.

You know, you can go down the list of the fighters who are in that Black zillion tamp you know you had, you know, Tyrone Spung, Anthony Johnson, Michael Johnson, Kamaro Oussman, you know, Vi Tour Belfer alistair Overhilbert Gilbert Burns. It was meathead, meathead, it was. There's so many, There's so many. I'm forgetting you Rumbo. Yeah. Uh, Mario Sperry. You know we've had Kenny Monday, We've had so many, Mike rand ires. We have so many, so many great coaches and athletes that came. Henry Hoof got his birth there, came with Tyrone's ended up now being coach of the Year. Now he's runs one of the best camps in a world. And all that came because I decided to move in Florida and I came here with the intent to just say, you know what, I'm done with super camps. I don't even want a super camp. Don't talk to me about a super camp, and I end up making a.

You know, you can go down the list of the fighters who are in that Black zillion tamp you know you had, you know, Tyrone Spung, Anthony Johnson, Michael Johnson, Kamaro Oussman, you know, Vi Tour Belfer alistair Overhilbert Gilbert Burns. It was meathead, meathead, it was. There's so many, There's so many. I'm forgetting you Rumbo. Yeah. Uh, Mario Sperry. You know we've had Kenny Monday, We've had so many, Mike rand ires. We have so many, so many great coaches and athletes that came. Henry Hoof got his birth there, came with Tyrone's ended up now being coach of the Year. Now he's runs one of the best camps in a world. And all that came because I decided to move in Florida and I came here with the intent to just say, you know what, I'm done with super camps. I don't even want a super camp. Don't talk to me about a super camp, and I end up making a.

Serior You built another one still, I mean, look, seriously, what does it mean? Because the build up to Kamara Usman's third fight with Leon Edwards, where he didn't do a lot of media, but then talked ahead of the fight. You know, he said, I'm built for this to come back and win back my title. He didn't get he didn't do it close fight, but he said because I watched closely the people that I was able to have as mentors, and he was like he brought it up right away. He's like rashadav I got to sit in that learning tree and learn from him. You get that as sort of the uncle. Now, I've ever made a lot like when you hear a champions say that and give back like that, that's going to make you feel like, man, I added something there, you know, man.

Serior You built another one still, I mean, look, seriously, what does it mean? Because the build up to Kamara Usman's third fight with Leon Edwards, where he didn't do a lot of media, but then talked ahead of the fight. You know, he said, I'm built for this to come back and win back my title. He didn't get he didn't do it close fight, but he said because I watched closely the people that I was able to have as mentors, and he was like he brought it up right away. He's like rashadav I got to sit in that learning tree and learn from him. You get that as sort of the uncle. Now, I've ever made a lot like when you hear a champions say that and give back like that, that's going to make you feel like, man, I added something there, you know, man.

And honestly, it makes me emotional and I and I get excited when I see these guys do well because it feels like a piece of me gets to go on, you know, like I never thought that investment in them would was really investment in me, you know, Like I invested in them because I really wanted them to to have a chance and get a hand in the sport that you know, I didn't get, you know, and I wanted them to really to live this life and to get a chance to do it and uplift their life. And they're doing it. You know, there are some people that I tried to help and I wasn't able to do it, and you can't. You can't save them all. But the ones that you can, the ones that you the ones that I've been able to help it it makes me happy. So when I see Tomorrow out there doing this thing, it made me so happy. And then to see him lose it was it was kind of you know, it was very sad for me in respect that you know, he was such a product of what it was that you know I built. You know, he was part of the gym, but he also lived with me for about five years, for five years. Yeah, he lived me for five years, man, and it was you know, he was he was my brother. You know, he would you know, I gave him a car even you know, leased the car so he'll have a car to drive, and make sure he had everything he needed so he can just have tunnel vision and focus. And you know, to see him go out there and achieve it really meant that that work wasn't for nothing. And then you have the Glenn Robinson aspect of it, who was the managers yep rest in peace who passed away, and you know he was another one who did everything he can to for these fighters and for kamaro Ousman. So to see that, to see him lose was kind of like, man, this this area is ending, you know, all.