Hi, I'm Stacey Johnson with Money Talks News. Here's one of our best podcasts from the archive that you may have missed.

Hi, I'm Stacey Johnson with Money Talks News. Here's one of our best podcasts from the archive that you may have missed.

Hey, guys and welcome to Money. I'm your host, Stacey Johnson. And this podcast is brought to you by Money Talks news.com. My co-host is money expert, Miranda Marquet from Miranda marquet.com. Hello, Miranda. Hello, Stacey. And also with us is Aaron Freeman. Say hi, Aaron.

Hey, guys and welcome to Money. I'm your host, Stacey Johnson. And this podcast is brought to you by Money Talks news.com. My co-host is money expert, Miranda Marquet from Miranda marquet.com. Hello, Miranda. Hello, Stacey. And also with us is Aaron Freeman. Say hi, Aaron.

Hello, everybody. And today we also have a special guest, Paula Pant from the hugely successful podcast. Afford anything? Hi, Paula. Hey, I'm glad to be here. We're so excited to have you, Miranda. What is on our agenda for today?

Hello, everybody. And today we also have a special guest, Paula Pant from the hugely successful podcast. Afford anything? Hi, Paula. Hey, I'm glad to be here. We're so excited to have you, Miranda. What is on our agenda for today?

Yeah. So I'm super excited to have Paula join us today. I've known Paula for a long time. So it's cool to have her on our podcast and we're going to talk about retirement but not just how to get there, but what you're doing during retirement and whether you can actually really truly retire, retire.

Yeah. So I'm super excited to have Paula join us today. I've known Paula for a long time. So it's cool to have her on our podcast and we're going to talk about retirement but not just how to get there, but what you're doing during retirement and whether you can actually really truly retire, retire.

This is a perfect topic for me because I'm doing something during my retirement right now and I can't wait to get to get started and see. What else do you guys have to say? But first we're ready for our dad joke. Generally I tell the joke here, but today we're gonna have our special guest, Paula Pant. Tell the dad joke for me. Maybe she'll do a better job than I do. Let it fly. Paula. Did you hear about the guy who invented the knock knock joke? No, he won the Nobel Prize.

This is a perfect topic for me because I'm doing something during my retirement right now and I can't wait to get to get started and see. What else do you guys have to say? But first we're ready for our dad joke. Generally I tell the joke here, but today we're gonna have our special guest, Paula Pant. Tell the dad joke for me. Maybe she'll do a better job than I do. Let it fly. Paula. Did you hear about the guy who invented the knock knock joke? No, he won the Nobel Prize.

Oh, Mike are Mike jokes that bad? You guys probably are.

Oh, Mike are Mike jokes that bad? You guys probably are.

Ok. So, before we get started into our topic, Paula, let's hear a little bit more about you. What you do afford anything is a super successful podcast. I don't know if you guys have listened to it or not, but you should, but tell us a little bit more about uh what afford anything is about Paula. Absolutely. So afford anything is the concept based on the concept that you can afford anything but not everything.

Ok. So, before we get started into our topic, Paula, let's hear a little bit more about you. What you do afford anything is a super successful podcast. I don't know if you guys have listened to it or not, but you should, but tell us a little bit more about uh what afford anything is about Paula. Absolutely. So afford anything is the concept based on the concept that you can afford anything but not everything.

Every choice that you make is a trade off against something else. And so fundamentally, the idea of afford anything is the idea of trade offs and opportunity costs. And as you're making those decisions about how to allocate your limited resources, your money, your time, your energy, your attention, what you're fundamentally doing is trying to decide what your values are. And so this discussion around money

Every choice that you make is a trade off against something else. And so fundamentally, the idea of afford anything is the idea of trade offs and opportunity costs. And as you're making those decisions about how to allocate your limited resources, your money, your time, your energy, your attention, what you're fundamentally doing is trying to decide what your values are. And so this discussion around money

at its core is a discussion about values about priorities about decision making when it comes to the most limited resources that we have and the most important choices of our lives. Um ultimately money is,

at its core is a discussion about values about priorities about decision making when it comes to the most limited resources that we have and the most important choices of our lives. Um ultimately money is,

is basically the physical representation of our values. Very cool. And you know, by the way, I need to say to you before we get going here that I get really, really annoyed when I hear young people go get on podcasts or have websites and say they're money experts because you know what a lot of them aren't,

is basically the physical representation of our values. Very cool. And you know, by the way, I need to say to you before we get going here that I get really, really annoyed when I hear young people go get on podcasts or have websites and say they're money experts because you know what a lot of them aren't,

they're knee high to a grasshopper. They couldn't be an expert. I mentioned this boomer. I'm saying, I mean, look at, well, we're calling me a, we're calling me a muddy expert. So, uh well, I mentioned this because I've listened to Paula's podcast, Udit Loquacious, super intelligent, a awesome person, a very

they're knee high to a grasshopper. They couldn't be an expert. I mentioned this boomer. I'm saying, I mean, look at, well, we're calling me a, we're calling me a muddy expert. So, uh well, I mentioned this because I've listened to Paula's podcast, Udit Loquacious, super intelligent, a awesome person, a very

knowledgeable, smarter than me. And, and that's super rare. Let me tell you because I'm super smart. But anyway, Paula, I think you are, you are really, really good and you are a true money expert. I need to say that if people out there are listening, if you have not heard her podcast, you need to. It's awesome. I listen to it all the time. Oh, thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. And I expect you to, to have me on your podcast and say the exact same things about me. I'll write them down for you. If you want

knowledgeable, smarter than me. And, and that's super rare. Let me tell you because I'm super smart. But anyway, Paula, I think you are, you are really, really good and you are a true money expert. I need to say that if people out there are listening, if you have not heard her podcast, you need to. It's awesome. I listen to it all the time. Oh, thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. And I expect you to, to have me on your podcast and say the exact same things about me. I'll write them down for you. If you want

loquacious and erudite, I will, I will say those exact words. Ok. Now let's get going on this week's topic. It's working in retirement, Aaron, I think you, you wanted to start us off with a clip. Right.

loquacious and erudite, I will, I will say those exact words. Ok. Now let's get going on this week's topic. It's working in retirement, Aaron, I think you, you wanted to start us off with a clip. Right.

Yeah. Yeah, we've had, we've had callers call in and leave us a little stories about their life, whether they're working in retirement, working after retirement and stuff like that. So, we'll start off with this 1st, 1st caller. Hi, Stacey. My story is because of COVID. I lost my full time job. The company wasn't doing well, had to downsize. So I was forced into

Yeah. Yeah, we've had, we've had callers call in and leave us a little stories about their life, whether they're working in retirement, working after retirement and stuff like that. So, we'll start off with this 1st, 1st caller. Hi, Stacey. My story is because of COVID. I lost my full time job. The company wasn't doing well, had to downsize. So I was forced into

early retirement at 62. I had to get a part time job here. I am struggling. I had to go get go on my husband's insurance. Very unaffordable and very low coverage. My name is Linda. I did not expect to go on social security at age 62 but here I am.

early retirement at 62. I had to get a part time job here. I am struggling. I had to go get go on my husband's insurance. Very unaffordable and very low coverage. My name is Linda. I did not expect to go on social security at age 62 but here I am.

And that's, that's a great clip and Linda's not the only one who's, this has happened to obviously Aaron, I know that you can pile some stats for us about what's going on with, with people retiring and not being able to afford retirement, et cetera, et cetera. Can you, can you read some of those for me?

And that's, that's a great clip and Linda's not the only one who's, this has happened to obviously Aaron, I know that you can pile some stats for us about what's going on with, with people retiring and not being able to afford retirement, et cetera, et cetera. Can you, can you read some of those for me?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the biggest one that stuck out to me was, uh, go banking rates. Found out that 64% of us workers expected to retire with less than 10,000 in retirement savings. I mean, that, that's crazy. Less than $10,000 in savings. That's a, it's a huge amount of the workforce, don't you think? Yeah, more than half. Sure. So, so so 40 46% of those respondents claim that they had no retirement savings at all.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the biggest one that stuck out to me was, uh, go banking rates. Found out that 64% of us workers expected to retire with less than 10,000 in retirement savings. I mean, that, that's crazy. Less than $10,000 in savings. That's a, it's a huge amount of the workforce, don't you think? Yeah, more than half. Sure. So, so so 40 46% of those respondents claim that they had no retirement savings at all.

That's pretty amazing, huh? What, what do you ladies think about this, these statistics? Do you think they're, do you think they're bull or do you think that's true? If, if it is true, that's terrifying. I mean, if you've got less than $10,000 in retirement savings, I would hope that, that means either you have an incredible pension,

That's pretty amazing, huh? What, what do you ladies think about this, these statistics? Do you think they're, do you think they're bull or do you think that's true? If, if it is true, that's terrifying. I mean, if you've got less than $10,000 in retirement savings, I would hope that, that means either you have an incredible pension,

which to be fair. I think something roughly about one in three people do have a pension, um, largely government workers. So it might be the case that at least some of them are covered by a pension. Uh, otherwise if you're not and you've got less than 10,000 in retirement savings. I hope that means that, um, that you're part of that demographic that's just entered the workforce, you know, maybe you're in your twenties or you're just out of college or you're just out of grad school. That's the only,

which to be fair. I think something roughly about one in three people do have a pension, um, largely government workers. So it might be the case that at least some of them are covered by a pension. Uh, otherwise if you're not and you've got less than 10,000 in retirement savings. I hope that means that, um, that you're part of that demographic that's just entered the workforce, you know, maybe you're in your twenties or you're just out of college or you're just out of grad school. That's the only,

um, non pension use case that I can imagine for having that little in retirement savings. Yeah, it's, it is super scary and, and especially when things like what happened to Linda happens to a lot of people, she didn't want to retire. She's only 62 but she had to retire

um, non pension use case that I can imagine for having that little in retirement savings. Yeah, it's, it is super scary and, and especially when things like what happened to Linda happens to a lot of people, she didn't want to retire. She's only 62 but she had to retire

and, and, you know, and a lot of people, and I could be wrong about this. It's off the top of my head. I believe that almost half of people use social security as their sole retirement income. Have you guys read something similar to that? Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the interesting thing about social security is that it was never meant to be an entire income replacement. It was meant more of a supplement and, um, many people end up relying on it more heavily than it was intended to be.

and, and, you know, and a lot of people, and I could be wrong about this. It's off the top of my head. I believe that almost half of people use social security as their sole retirement income. Have you guys read something similar to that? Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the interesting thing about social security is that it was never meant to be an entire income replacement. It was meant more of a supplement and, um, many people end up relying on it more heavily than it was intended to be.

Yeah. And, and you, you put it a polite way, uh a supplement, but you know, what it was really supposed to do is keep old people from starving to death. Uh It was brought out after the Great Depression. You know, it was literally supposed to keep old people who could no longer work from dying of starvation. You know, I mean, it, and yet nowadays people are,

Yeah. And, and you, you put it a polite way, uh a supplement, but you know, what it was really supposed to do is keep old people from starving to death. Uh It was brought out after the Great Depression. You know, it was literally supposed to keep old people who could no longer work from dying of starvation. You know, I mean, it, and yet nowadays people are,

uh, you're using it as their sole source of retirement income. So we've got a huge problem here. Right. Right. So you got, you got a lot of people, you know, with barely any savings and then you compile that with uh COVID now and an economic, you know, problems that we have.

uh, you're using it as their sole source of retirement income. So we've got a huge problem here. Right. Right. So you got, you got a lot of people, you know, with barely any savings and then you compile that with uh COVID now and an economic, you know, problems that we have.

And that's why Linda said she had to retire early because of COVID before we move on. Now, obviously, this show is aimed at people my age and just to be clear. So the people listening to us, they can't see us. Um, I'm 65 Miranda, I think is in early forties. 41 something like that.

And that's why Linda said she had to retire early because of COVID before we move on. Now, obviously, this show is aimed at people my age and just to be clear. So the people listening to us, they can't see us. Um, I'm 65 Miranda, I think is in early forties. 41 something like that.

And Paul, I think is 24 37 37. Close enough. Same thing. Uh, and Aaron is in his mid to late forties. Aaron, is that right? 46 I'll be 47 in February. So we got, we got pretty much the bases covered here from, from 37 to 65. So as you hear our voices, then you'll know what our perspective is. Uh But anyway, that reminds me though. I know that you uh Paula and I think you too, Miranda are interested in the fire movement.

And Paul, I think is 24 37 37. Close enough. Same thing. Uh, and Aaron is in his mid to late forties. Aaron, is that right? 46 I'll be 47 in February. So we got, we got pretty much the bases covered here from, from 37 to 65. So as you hear our voices, then you'll know what our perspective is. Uh But anyway, that reminds me though. I know that you uh Paula and I think you too, Miranda are interested in the fire movement.

So this is, this is a little different than people aimed at people my age. It's aimed at people y'all's age to retire. Explain you are you are involved in the fire movement, right? Paula? Are you interested in it? I am I am. So the fire movement. So fire is an acronym that stands for Financial independence, retire early.

So this is, this is a little different than people aimed at people my age. It's aimed at people y'all's age to retire. Explain you are you are involved in the fire movement, right? Paula? Are you interested in it? I am I am. So the fire movement. So fire is an acronym that stands for Financial independence, retire early.

And the idea behind the fire movement is that you save up enough money um and invest enough money such that your passive income typically through investments is enough to cover at least a basic standard of living. And so perhaps you develop uh an an

And the idea behind the fire movement is that you save up enough money um and invest enough money such that your passive income typically through investments is enough to cover at least a basic standard of living. And so perhaps you develop uh an an

index fund portfolio of a million dollars and that million dollars at a 4% withdrawal rate could give you a basic income of $40,000 per year. Now, will that be enough for some people? Yes, for some people. No, it depends on how large your family is. It depends on what part of the country you live in. It depends on whether or not you then have any debt.

index fund portfolio of a million dollars and that million dollars at a 4% withdrawal rate could give you a basic income of $40,000 per year. Now, will that be enough for some people? Yes, for some people. No, it depends on how large your family is. It depends on what part of the country you live in. It depends on whether or not you then have any debt.

But the notion behind the fire movement is that at as early of an age as possible, you develop uh a large bank of investments, you develop a large portfolio of investments such that that passive income becomes an option.

But the notion behind the fire movement is that at as early of an age as possible, you develop uh a large bank of investments, you develop a large portfolio of investments such that that passive income becomes an option.

Uh The the retire early part of fire is the part that tends to grab the headlines. And I think in my opinion is perhaps one of the most misleading or confusing aspects of fire. Um A lot of people when they first encounter the fire movement interpret the entire early part to mean that you retire at the age of 35 and you never work again from age 35 onwards, every single day is nothing but margaritas on the beach.

Uh The the retire early part of fire is the part that tends to grab the headlines. And I think in my opinion is perhaps one of the most misleading or confusing aspects of fire. Um A lot of people when they first encounter the fire movement interpret the entire early part to mean that you retire at the age of 35 and you never work again from age 35 onwards, every single day is nothing but margaritas on the beach.

Uh The reality is that that is almost never the case for a lot of people. Fire is essentially a way of having a well funded Second Act. So perhaps it's the case that once you have that million dollar portfolio that give, that generates passive income of 40,000 a year, you can make a career change and maybe you've been working as a software engineer, but you really want to be a preschool teacher

Uh The reality is that that is almost never the case for a lot of people. Fire is essentially a way of having a well funded Second Act. So perhaps it's the case that once you have that million dollar portfolio that give, that generates passive income of 40,000 a year, you can make a career change and maybe you've been working as a software engineer, but you really want to be a preschool teacher

and great now you have the ability at the age of 35 or 40 or 45 to go to grad school. Um cash flow, your grad school tuition and switch to a lower paying profession as a preschool teacher which is, you know, may, maybe if, if that's what you want to do, maybe that makes you happier.

and great now you have the ability at the age of 35 or 40 or 45 to go to grad school. Um cash flow, your grad school tuition and switch to a lower paying profession as a preschool teacher which is, you know, may, maybe if, if that's what you want to do, maybe that makes you happier.

Um, but, you know, but you have that, that those assets in your portfolio that, uh, smooth that transition financially. Ok. So basically you're talking about extreme frugality leading to early retirement, which may not really be retirement at all. Yeah, I don't, I really don't like the word retirement in the context

Um, but, you know, but you have that, that those assets in your portfolio that, uh, smooth that transition financially. Ok. So basically you're talking about extreme frugality leading to early retirement, which may not really be retirement at all. Yeah, I don't, I really don't like the word retirement in the context

to fire. I, I think it can be misleading because a lot of people in the fire movement use the word retire as a synonym for well funded career change. Um For some people that means entrepreneurship with a safety net for some people that means uh switching to a lower paid but more meaningful job. Um but in, in 1 to 1 extent or another,

to fire. I, I think it can be misleading because a lot of people in the fire movement use the word retire as a synonym for well funded career change. Um For some people that means entrepreneurship with a safety net for some people that means uh switching to a lower paid but more meaningful job. Um but in, in 1 to 1 extent or another,

people in the fire movement use the word retire to reference a second act. And so to that extent, I think the use of the word retirement is a little misleading and it often leads to more semantic debates that I think kind of obscure the, the point that we should really all be getting to, which is, it's a good idea to save up a bunch of assets. It should really be a fern, it should be fern. Firn, financial independence retired. Never. Yeah.

people in the fire movement use the word retire to reference a second act. And so to that extent, I think the use of the word retirement is a little misleading and it often leads to more semantic debates that I think kind of obscure the, the point that we should really all be getting to, which is, it's a good idea to save up a bunch of assets. It should really be a fern, it should be fern. Firn, financial independence retired. Never. Yeah.

Yeah. Or just fi you know, I mean, ultimately, like once you have financial independence, you can do whatever you want. And so what matters is the F I part? Yes. And by the way, I'm glad that your generation rediscovered something that's been around since the dinosaurs. I have to tell you, II, I can really annoyed at this move up because let me, let me sum it up for you right here. I'm, I'm now gonna read, I'm gonna read from um,

Yeah. Or just fi you know, I mean, ultimately, like once you have financial independence, you can do whatever you want. And so what matters is the F I part? Yes. And by the way, I'm glad that your generation rediscovered something that's been around since the dinosaurs. I have to tell you, II, I can really annoyed at this move up because let me, let me sum it up for you right here. I'm, I'm now gonna read, I'm gonna read from um,

Mr Money Mustache. OK. Here's a quote from Mr Money Mustache. One of the people, one of the people principally behind the fire movement, I guess, right? Or at least an inherent uh, now listen to this quote,

Mr Money Mustache. OK. Here's a quote from Mr Money Mustache. One of the people, one of the people principally behind the fire movement, I guess, right? Or at least an inherent uh, now listen to this quote,

the bottom line is this

the bottom line is this

by focusing on happiness itself. You can lead a much better life than those who focus on convenience, luxury and following the lead of the financially illiterate herd that is a TV, ad absorbing middle class of the United States.

by focusing on happiness itself. You can lead a much better life than those who focus on convenience, luxury and following the lead of the financially illiterate herd that is a TV, ad absorbing middle class of the United States.

Ok. Now, let me read you this quote.

Ok. Now, let me read you this quote.

We're like hamsters running on a wheel, a wheel powered by the billions of dollars of advertising. We've been subjected to all our lives. It's time right now to get off that treadmill, it's time to decide to stop swapping our lives for meaningless things and start enriching our lives for the things we really crave, instead things that are free for the taking.

We're like hamsters running on a wheel, a wheel powered by the billions of dollars of advertising. We've been subjected to all our lives. It's time right now to get off that treadmill, it's time to decide to stop swapping our lives for meaningless things and start enriching our lives for the things we really crave, instead things that are free for the taking.

Now, the first quote was from Mr Money Mustache. The second quote was what was from Stacy Johnson from his first book that I wrote 22 years ago.

Now, the first quote was from Mr Money Mustache. The second quote was what was from Stacy Johnson from his first book that I wrote 22 years ago.

So I mean, obviously, and by the way to be clear, to be, to be fair, I was in, I was incented to write Life or Debt is the name of my first book. I was incented to write that by reading, uh, your Money Or Your Life, which was written in 1993 and also the Millionaire next door, which was written in 1996. So this is a great concept, but it ain't a new one, although it is a good one. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and I think that, you know, oftentimes people need a new framework to

So I mean, obviously, and by the way to be clear, to be, to be fair, I was in, I was incented to write Life or Debt is the name of my first book. I was incented to write that by reading, uh, your Money Or Your Life, which was written in 1993 and also the Millionaire next door, which was written in 1996. So this is a great concept, but it ain't a new one, although it is a good one. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and I think that, you know, oftentimes people need a new framework to

generate enthusiasm around tried and true classic principles and fire is essentially a new framework that generates enthusiasm around saving and investing. Um That's why if you discard the re part and focus on the f IFI is fundamentally the idea of save and invest and, and, and how diplomatic of you to put it that way too. Paula, you should, you should be in the Senate right now.

generate enthusiasm around tried and true classic principles and fire is essentially a new framework that generates enthusiasm around saving and investing. Um That's why if you discard the re part and focus on the f IFI is fundamentally the idea of save and invest and, and, and how diplomatic of you to put it that way too. Paula, you should, you should be in the Senate right now.

Let's do a real quick break. We'll come back and guess what? We're gonna have another dad joke be right back. Ok. We are back and I'm ready for a dad joke. This is gonna be my turn. Now, Paula, here, here it is. You know, the worst part of spanking, a disobedient child in a supermarket. It's having absolutely no idea whose child it is.

Let's do a real quick break. We'll come back and guess what? We're gonna have another dad joke be right back. Ok. We are back and I'm ready for a dad joke. This is gonna be my turn. Now, Paula, here, here it is. You know, the worst part of spanking, a disobedient child in a supermarket. It's having absolutely no idea whose child it is.

Ok. Now you have another clip for us, don't you? Yeah. So why we use this. Uh, this is another caller and, uh, we're gonna use this to segue into our next, uh, next section here.

Ok. Now you have another clip for us, don't you? Yeah. So why we use this. Uh, this is another caller and, uh, we're gonna use this to segue into our next, uh, next section here.

Hi, this is Cordia Francis. I am working by choice. I retired from 22 years in the pharmaceutical industry and I've transitioned, retrained and gotten licensed in life and health insurance sales. So I'm happy in retirement. Happy to be, uh active and engaged and able to continue earning money and have a whole new income stream.

Hi, this is Cordia Francis. I am working by choice. I retired from 22 years in the pharmaceutical industry and I've transitioned, retrained and gotten licensed in life and health insurance sales. So I'm happy in retirement. Happy to be, uh active and engaged and able to continue earning money and have a whole new income stream.

Thank you very much. Bye now.

Thank you very much. Bye now.

And, and this is, you know, because obviously the first part of our show, we talked about how people might have to work in retirement. Uh We heard from Linda who's being forced to basically work in retirement. Um But, but now we learn now we hear from somebody who likes working

And, and this is, you know, because obviously the first part of our show, we talked about how people might have to work in retirement. Uh We heard from Linda who's being forced to basically work in retirement. Um But, but now we learn now we hear from somebody who likes working

and they're not alone.

and they're not alone.

You know, retirement is so much different now than when my parents, uh which would be y'all's grandparents retired. Uh When my dad retired, he worked at the, he worked for the government,

You know, retirement is so much different now than when my parents, uh which would be y'all's grandparents retired. Uh When my dad retired, he worked at the, he worked for the government,

hated his job,

hated his job,

uh worked until the second he could retire. Then he got this big retirement that he couldn't even spend all of. Uh and he, he had, I mean, putting me through college was 600 bucks a semester. All their, all their health insurance was paid for, they had a nice fat retirement check. I mean, it was just so different for them. And if you said to my dad, hey, you want to go back to work. He'd say what the hell is wrong with you. You would never want to go back to work. He, he gardened, they pull, he pulled a trail around the country, you know,

uh worked until the second he could retire. Then he got this big retirement that he couldn't even spend all of. Uh and he, he had, I mean, putting me through college was 600 bucks a semester. All their, all their health insurance was paid for, they had a nice fat retirement check. I mean, it was just so different for them. And if you said to my dad, hey, you want to go back to work. He'd say what the hell is wrong with you. You would never want to go back to work. He, he gardened, they pull, he pulled a trail around the country, you know,

but now people want to go back to work. Why do you think that what you throw some ideas out? Why do you think people might want to go back to work guys? Well, so I think one of the big things and um, you know, we, we, we talk about so I'm not super into the fire movement. Um, in terms of like, I have nothing against it, but it's not something that I do. I'm just more interested in, I guess life, lifestyle design and, um,

but now people want to go back to work. Why do you think that what you throw some ideas out? Why do you think people might want to go back to work guys? Well, so I think one of the big things and um, you know, we, we, we talk about so I'm not super into the fire movement. Um, in terms of like, I have nothing against it, but it's not something that I do. I'm just more interested in, I guess life, lifestyle design and, um,

and just like creating a life I like right now and, and like location, independent work. And I think a lot of people get to the point where,

and just like creating a life I like right now and, and like location, independent work. And I think a lot of people get to the point where,

um, get to the point where they, after they retire, they don't have, sorry, let me try again after they retire, they don't have that meaningful work to do. And so that kind of impacts them. I know a lot of impact my own dad. He retired and after two years in retirement, went back to work because he was bored out of his mind. So I think that the key there is is finding something meaningful to do and something that keeps you engaged and interested.

um, get to the point where they, after they retire, they don't have, sorry, let me try again after they retire, they don't have that meaningful work to do. And so that kind of impacts them. I know a lot of impact my own dad. He retired and after two years in retirement, went back to work because he was bored out of his mind. So I think that the key there is is finding something meaningful to do and something that keeps you engaged and interested.

Yeah. And that's certainly the case for me. I could retire right now. My wife's much younger than me. Uh, but what else? What I, what would I do it myself? I don't know. So, you know, I, I get a lot of, uh, I get a lot of, uh, satisfaction from working by the way before we, before we go too much further. I do want to acknowledge that you just said lifestyle design,

Yeah. And that's certainly the case for me. I could retire right now. My wife's much younger than me. Uh, but what else? What I, what would I do it myself? I don't know. So, you know, I, I get a lot of, uh, I get a lot of, uh, satisfaction from working by the way before we, before we go too much further. I do want to acknowledge that you just said lifestyle design,

Miranda because that sounded pretty pretentious to me that term. It's not, my dad would have used. Well. Yeah, I think it's, well, it's one that Tim Ferris uses and, um, I probably heard Rami Seti use it as well. But, yeah, so it's, yeah, that's, that's kind of a term that I've kind of looked into and that I like to use.

Miranda because that sounded pretty pretentious to me that term. It's not, my dad would have used. Well. Yeah, I think it's, well, it's one that Tim Ferris uses and, um, I probably heard Rami Seti use it as well. But, yeah, so it's, yeah, that's, that's kind of a term that I've kind of looked into and that I like to use.

It's because it's like I'm not actively pursuing fire. I mean, I, I spend less than I earn. I invest. I do the things but I'm not in, like, I'm not doing extreme frugality. I don't have the high savings rate that a lot of people do have. Um, I'm just kind of enjoying and living my life and, and doing the thing. So you would look forward to working in what we traditionally would call retirement.

It's because it's like I'm not actively pursuing fire. I mean, I, I spend less than I earn. I invest. I do the things but I'm not in, like, I'm not doing extreme frugality. I don't have the high savings rate that a lot of people do have. Um, I'm just kind of enjoying and living my life and, and doing the thing. So you would look forward to working in what we traditionally would call retirement.

Oh, definitely. Well, I mean, I would look forward to keep doing the stuff that I'm doing right now. Like I, I talk about, I don't want to retire from my life. I like my life as it is right now. Um, I mean, I want to do like different things and, and more things perhaps. But, um, but, yeah, and then what about you, Paul? Do you see yourself retiring one day? No, I mean, my hope is, uh, my hope is that when I'm 200 years old I'll still be healthy enough to work. I think that, that the

Oh, definitely. Well, I mean, I would look forward to keep doing the stuff that I'm doing right now. Like I, I talk about, I don't want to retire from my life. I like my life as it is right now. Um, I mean, I want to do like different things and, and more things perhaps. But, um, but, yeah, and then what about you, Paul? Do you see yourself retiring one day? No, I mean, my hope is, uh, my hope is that when I'm 200 years old I'll still be healthy enough to work. I think that, that the

original idea of retirement came about, um, at a time when number one, when a lot more people were doing phys physically demanding work. And so retirement was, uh, you know, a concept that was,

original idea of retirement came about, um, at a time when number one, when a lot more people were doing phys physically demanding work. And so retirement was, uh, you know, a concept that was,

you know, that applied to people who just reached an age where their bodies could no longer sustain the type of work they were doing. Uh, my grandfather was a tenant farmer. You know, they, they didn't, my grandparents didn't own any land. He was a tenant farmer on someone else's land. And there comes a point in your life where you just can't do that anymore. And he was in an area with a lot of malaria and, you know, a lot of disease. It was the, the southern border of Nepal, um right near the border of India. And so

you know, that applied to people who just reached an age where their bodies could no longer sustain the type of work they were doing. Uh, my grandfather was a tenant farmer. You know, they, they didn't, my grandparents didn't own any land. He was a tenant farmer on someone else's land. And there comes a point in your life where you just can't do that anymore. And he was in an area with a lot of malaria and, you know, a lot of disease. It was the, the southern border of Nepal, um right near the border of India. And so

there just comes a point where, um, you know, the, the being in the hot tropical sun doing, uh, you know, manual, uh we're not talking about farming with machines like you do in the United States. We're talking about manual farming with handheld tools. You can't really do that into your sixties and seventies

there just comes a point where, um, you know, the, the being in the hot tropical sun doing, uh, you know, manual, uh we're not talking about farming with machines like you do in the United States. We're talking about manual farming with handheld tools. You can't really do that into your sixties and seventies

that definitely makes sense. And you're absolutely right. I mean, like I said, I like working. I, I do not do that anything like that. My father, my father's father also was a, was a tenant farmer. So I'm down, I was on, as a matter of fact, you guys, I know how to plow with a mule. I've done it before. He used ox carts from. I'm the, I'm the only person you guys know who knows how to make a mule turn right or left. Did you, do you know how?

that definitely makes sense. And you're absolutely right. I mean, like I said, I like working. I, I do not do that anything like that. My father, my father's father also was a, was a tenant farmer. So I'm down, I was on, as a matter of fact, you guys, I know how to plow with a mule. I've done it before. He used ox carts from. I'm the, I'm the only person you guys know who knows how to make a mule turn right or left. Did you, do you know how?

No, if you're, if you're plowing, you want to be able to turn right. You go, gee, and if you want them to go left, you go. Ha.

No, if you're, if you're plowing, you want to be able to turn right. You go, gee, and if you want them to go left, you go. Ha.

Hm. That's a true story.

Hm. That's a true story.

I relevant to this conversation. Not in any way, but, ok. So anyway, the four of us can continue working indefinitely because a, our jobs are not physically demanding and b we're self-employed. So we decide when we want to stop working. But what, what about if you are a person who doesn't have their own means of production? In other words, they're not self-employed.

I relevant to this conversation. Not in any way, but, ok. So anyway, the four of us can continue working indefinitely because a, our jobs are not physically demanding and b we're self-employed. So we decide when we want to stop working. But what, what about if you are a person who doesn't have their own means of production? In other words, they're not self-employed.

Uh, they reach a certain point in their life where they, where they don't want to work full time anymore or maybe they don't enjoy their job for that matter and they do reach retirement age, social security age, but they don't want to get completely out of the workforce. Uh, what I was thinking we could do here is, is throw out some ideas, many of which did not exist when my father retired, which was a million years ago. I can't even remember when, but the the internet has just literally changed everything.

Uh, they reach a certain point in their life where they, where they don't want to work full time anymore or maybe they don't enjoy their job for that matter and they do reach retirement age, social security age, but they don't want to get completely out of the workforce. Uh, what I was thinking we could do here is, is throw out some ideas, many of which did not exist when my father retired, which was a million years ago. I can't even remember when, but the the internet has just literally changed everything.

And so we, we have an article on our site, by the way, for those listening, we have a million links at the end in our show notes here about different things that you can do and different places you can get help, uh, for this topic. But can, can you guys think of anything, um, that you would suggest that people might try to do, uh, in their retirement years, especially things they might be able to do from home. Mm.

And so we, we have an article on our site, by the way, for those listening, we have a million links at the end in our show notes here about different things that you can do and different places you can get help, uh, for this topic. But can, can you guys think of anything, um, that you would suggest that people might try to do, uh, in their retirement years, especially things they might be able to do from home. Mm.

I would, I would say any type of freelance freelance work or consulting work. Um, it could be in the primary profession that you had or it could be something totally new. You know, there, there are so many online classes that you can take that if you want to learn a new skill just so you have something new and novel and, and

I would, I would say any type of freelance freelance work or consulting work. Um, it could be in the primary profession that you had or it could be something totally new. You know, there, there are so many online classes that you can take that if you want to learn a new skill just so you have something new and novel and, and

that grabs your attention. You can learn anything from graphic design to how to be a freelance writer. I know Miranda. You, uh, you teach people how to do that, um, to bookkeeping. Uh, anything that grabs your attention, you can, you can learn that skill and then do that as a freelancer from home.

that grabs your attention. You can learn anything from graphic design to how to be a freelance writer. I know Miranda. You, uh, you teach people how to do that, um, to bookkeeping. Uh, anything that grabs your attention, you can, you can learn that skill and then do that as a freelancer from home.

Yeah. Yeah, I was just thinking about even you, Aaron Aaron. Aaron has been a, a news editor and shooter for decades and has worked with me for many years doing both video and of course audio like this. But Aaron, you could create, you could create a class on how to edit video or how to do a podcast or what equipment do you, that you need to do a podcast, any number of things. And you can actually put that online and sell it and, and just as Miranda's doing, but she's written a lot. So now she's teaching other people how to write.

Yeah. Yeah, I was just thinking about even you, Aaron Aaron. Aaron has been a, a news editor and shooter for decades and has worked with me for many years doing both video and of course audio like this. But Aaron, you could create, you could create a class on how to edit video or how to do a podcast or what equipment do you, that you need to do a podcast, any number of things. And you can actually put that online and sell it and, and just as Miranda's doing, but she's written a lot. So now she's teaching other people how to write.

And so there's something right there. Everybody has an as an expert at something. So you can create a class which you weren't able to do until relatively recently and put that online and make money from it as an annuity. You know, you don't even have to, you can stop doing it, create a class and let it, let it, uh bring in some money. Right. That's one idea. There's, uh you could be a customer service rep. Uh I actually have a friend who does that. She's not retired, she's in her forties, but uh she works at home doing that being a customer service rep. There's a lot of things you can do.

And so there's something right there. Everybody has an as an expert at something. So you can create a class which you weren't able to do until relatively recently and put that online and make money from it as an annuity. You know, you don't even have to, you can stop doing it, create a class and let it, let it, uh bring in some money. Right. That's one idea. There's, uh you could be a customer service rep. Uh I actually have a friend who does that. She's not retired, she's in her forties, but uh she works at home doing that being a customer service rep. There's a lot of things you can do.

Uh you can, you could buy and sell stuff, you know, you can, you can, you guys, you guys ever try to do retail arbitrage, buying something on uh local uh and then selling it national like buying something from Craigslist and selling it on ebay. I've seen that happen a lot. I've done stories on it. I know some people who have done that. Yeah. And they, they have a system and they have good markups. Um, another option is Ecommerce. You can white label products um,

Uh you can, you could buy and sell stuff, you know, you can, you can, you guys, you guys ever try to do retail arbitrage, buying something on uh local uh and then selling it national like buying something from Craigslist and selling it on ebay. I've seen that happen a lot. I've done stories on it. I know some people who have done that. Yeah. And they, they have a system and they have good markups. Um, another option is Ecommerce. You can white label products um,

and, and kind of put your own branding on it and create a website and, and sell those items and particularly niche items or specialty items. I mean, you know, II, I have a pet turtle for example. And if you go into the world of buying products that are specific to turtle owners, um, it's a small world but it's a world in which, you know, there are some specialty products that, uh,

and, and kind of put your own branding on it and create a website and, and sell those items and particularly niche items or specialty items. I mean, you know, II, I have a pet turtle for example. And if you go into the world of buying products that are specific to turtle owners, um, it's a small world but it's a world in which, you know, there are some specialty products that, uh,

that we need or that we want. And there, there are a lot of opportunities there if, you know, you can, there's basically space in the market for that.

that we need or that we want. And there, there are a lot of opportunities there if, you know, you can, there's basically space in the market for that.

Yeah. Well, you guys think that the, the current 65 year olds or 62 year olds out there are tech savvy enough to handle a lot of these online market. Absolutely.

Yeah. Well, you guys think that the, the current 65 year olds or 62 year olds out there are tech savvy enough to handle a lot of these online market. Absolutely.

Well, I mean, you know, I, I come across quite a few of them in my travels that, you know, barely can use a flip phone. You're absolutely right. They have the capability to learn. I mean, they need confidence maybe, but they have complete, assuming average intelligence, they have the capability to learn.

Well, I mean, you know, I, I come across quite a few of them in my travels that, you know, barely can use a flip phone. You're absolutely right. They have the capability to learn. I mean, they need confidence maybe, but they have complete, assuming average intelligence, they have the capability to learn.

Yes. Exactly. And, you know, and that, that's something that actually kind of pisses me off when I hear people say, like, well, I don't know, well, guess what, you know, I've been, I, I've, I owned a website. This, I'm an accountant. I'm a CPA. That's what I, that's what I learned to do. Then I learned television news,

Yes. Exactly. And, you know, and that, that's something that actually kind of pisses me off when I hear people say, like, well, I don't know, well, guess what, you know, I've been, I, I've, I owned a website. This, I'm an accountant. I'm a CPA. That's what I, that's what I learned to do. Then I learned television news,

uh, which I did for 30 years and then I learned the, the internet. I, I don't know how to code but I, I knew how to put up a website and find somebody that knew how to code. And I've learned every single day, I'm lost, I'm learning something every day because you have to, the world is changing. And if you're too, if you're too much of a wuss to, to figure it out to do a little studying, then you got, you got other issues besides being able to work in retirement.

uh, which I did for 30 years and then I learned the, the internet. I, I don't know how to code but I, I knew how to put up a website and find somebody that knew how to code. And I've learned every single day, I'm lost, I'm learning something every day because you have to, the world is changing. And if you're too, if you're too much of a wuss to, to figure it out to do a little studying, then you got, you got other issues besides being able to work in retirement.

Figure it out, work at it. Struggle learn, keeps you alive, keeps you awake, keeps you alert. And again, there are a lot of online classes. You know, you can watch youtube videos for, you know, instructional or tutorials. You can look at websites or blogs that teach you how to do certain things. Um You can take an online class. You can

Figure it out, work at it. Struggle learn, keeps you alive, keeps you awake, keeps you alert. And again, there are a lot of online classes. You know, you can watch youtube videos for, you know, instructional or tutorials. You can look at websites or blogs that teach you how to do certain things. Um You can take an online class. You can

can, there's, there's so much educational information out there. Yes, there is. And, and speaking of which, let me now again, everything in the show notes. But there are so many, there are so many resources out there for you to learn new stuff. Uh it's, and we're just about out of time. But I like, for example, I'm on a Arps website right now. Uh, they have a page that's called, uh, Resources to help you. Re job search resources for 50 plus is the name of the, the website. And it's got,

can, there's, there's so much educational information out there. Yes, there is. And, and speaking of which, let me now again, everything in the show notes. But there are so many, there are so many resources out there for you to learn new stuff. Uh it's, and we're just about out of time. But I like, for example, I'm on a Arps website right now. Uh, they have a page that's called, uh, Resources to help you. Re job search resources for 50 plus is the name of the, the website. And it's got,

uh, workforce fifty.com, retired brains.com seniors for hire.com, your encore.com, retiree. Workforce.com. I went, I just went about the 10th of the way down this list. There's a million resources out there that'll help you. 50 plus learn, learn a new job or if you retired early because you're financially independent, you can use these resources or other ones as well.

uh, workforce fifty.com, retired brains.com seniors for hire.com, your encore.com, retiree. Workforce.com. I went, I just went about the 10th of the way down this list. There's a million resources out there that'll help you. 50 plus learn, learn a new job or if you retired early because you're financially independent, you can use these resources or other ones as well.

So there's plenty of stuff that you can do out there. There's no reason not to, there's every reason to do something interesting to keep yourself active. So you should absolutely positively do this. Do you guys have anything else to add before we close out this awesome show? Well, the title is, uh, you know, is, is retirement, uh, working, you know, is it awesome or is it bullshit? So, what have we figured it out? Is it retirement's whatever you want it to be and you can make it awesome.

So there's plenty of stuff that you can do out there. There's no reason not to, there's every reason to do something interesting to keep yourself active. So you should absolutely positively do this. Do you guys have anything else to add before we close out this awesome show? Well, the title is, uh, you know, is, is retirement, uh, working, you know, is it awesome or is it bullshit? So, what have we figured it out? Is it retirement's whatever you want it to be and you can make it awesome.

Listen to you like certainly Temple, you sound trying to make it happen to me working, uh, working in retirement is, is essential. But I guess, and the answer, I guess Aaron is, it just depends on who you are and what you want to do. But I I see no reason whatsoever why a person, even if you have unlimited funds, I see no reason why you wouldn't wanna go out and explore something new.

Listen to you like certainly Temple, you sound trying to make it happen to me working, uh, working in retirement is, is essential. But I guess, and the answer, I guess Aaron is, it just depends on who you are and what you want to do. But I I see no reason whatsoever why a person, even if you have unlimited funds, I see no reason why you wouldn't wanna go out and explore something new.

Maybe you could make an argument, do something charitable. That's not really a job, you know, donating your time. Uh, but to sit at home and watch Fox News is a horrible idea. Do something else. Do not rot your brain explore. And I think a job is a great way of doing that. I think you nailed it.

Maybe you could make an argument, do something charitable. That's not really a job, you know, donating your time. Uh, but to sit at home and watch Fox News is a horrible idea. Do something else. Do not rot your brain explore. And I think a job is a great way of doing that. I think you nailed it.

All right. Then I am afraid we are out of time guys, but we're not out of this topic. You gotta dig deeper. You're gonna find links, as I said to lots more info on our show notes. And remember if your goal is to make more to spend less to retire rich or online home is Money Talks news.com and don't forget to check out Miranda's online home as well. That is Miranda Mart Ma rquit.com

All right. Then I am afraid we are out of time guys, but we're not out of this topic. You gotta dig deeper. You're gonna find links, as I said to lots more info on our show notes. And remember if your goal is to make more to spend less to retire rich or online home is Money Talks news.com and don't forget to check out Miranda's online home as well. That is Miranda Mart Ma rquit.com

and you got to visit Paula Pant. She's got a website for it. Anything.com, but look her up and listen to her podcast. You will be super glad that you did. If you've got a question or comment or anything you'd like to suggest to us. Don't just sit there, tell me, email us at, hello at Money Talk

and you got to visit Paula Pant. She's got a website for it. Anything.com, but look her up and listen to her podcast. You will be super glad that you did. If you've got a question or comment or anything you'd like to suggest to us. Don't just sit there, tell me, email us at, hello at Money Talk

news.com. That's hello at Money Talks news.com. And one last thing if you appreciate what we do, then do something for me. Subscribe to this podcast. Takes you two seconds, but it can really help us. So if you like it, show us by subscribing, I'm Stacy Johnson and I'm Miranda Marquette

news.com. That's hello at Money Talks news.com. And one last thing if you appreciate what we do, then do something for me. Subscribe to this podcast. Takes you two seconds, but it can really help us. So if you like it, show us by subscribing, I'm Stacy Johnson and I'm Miranda Marquette

and I'm Aaron Freeman and I'm Paula Pant. Thank you, Paul. I didn't, I didn't give you a warning on that. You did. Great. So, thanks for hanging out with us everyone and we're gonna see you right here next time.

and I'm Aaron Freeman and I'm Paula Pant. Thank you, Paul. I didn't, I didn't give you a warning on that. You did. Great. So, thanks for hanging out with us everyone and we're gonna see you right here next time.