Hey guys and welcome to the money podcast, I am Stacy Johnson for the vast majority of my 40 year career offering financial advice. My advice on paying for financial advisor was real simple. Don't

Hey guys and welcome to the money podcast, I am Stacy Johnson for the vast majority of my 40 year career offering financial advice. My advice on paying for financial advisor was real simple. Don't

my logic, managing your money is not rocket science, what you don't already know, you can easily learn and since nobody cares as much about your money as you do, you should be the one doing it.

my logic, managing your money is not rocket science, what you don't already know, you can easily learn and since nobody cares as much about your money as you do, you should be the one doing it.

Plus after spending a decade working for major Wall Street firms, I learned that when it comes to commission based advisors, the advice you pay for maybe fattening their their wallet and not yours

Plus after spending a decade working for major Wall Street firms, I learned that when it comes to commission based advisors, the advice you pay for maybe fattening their their wallet and not yours

as I approach my own retirement. However, I've gotten less rigid now, I do realize that not everyone is the same and nor are there situations, there are decent advisors out there and just because you're theoretically capable of learning something doesn't mean you're going to take the time and effort to do it.

as I approach my own retirement. However, I've gotten less rigid now, I do realize that not everyone is the same and nor are there situations, there are decent advisors out there and just because you're theoretically capable of learning something doesn't mean you're going to take the time and effort to do it.

Even more important as retirement nears in your nest egg, grows the moves you make or don't make, can have life changing repercussions and short. I now believe there are people and situations that can benefit from paid financial advice, but that begs to critical questions. Number one, how do I know when it's time to hire help? Number two, how do I find the right person to help me?

Even more important as retirement nears in your nest egg, grows the moves you make or don't make, can have life changing repercussions and short. I now believe there are people and situations that can benefit from paid financial advice, but that begs to critical questions. Number one, how do I know when it's time to hire help? Number two, how do I find the right person to help me?

And that's what this week's money podcast is all about. We're gonna talk about the different types of financial advisors, how to determine if you need one and if so how to find the right one for you.

And that's what this week's money podcast is all about. We're gonna talk about the different types of financial advisors, how to determine if you need one and if so how to find the right one for you.

As usual, my co host will be financial journalist, Miranda Marquit. Hey Miranda

As usual, my co host will be financial journalist, Miranda Marquit. Hey Miranda

listening in and sometimes contributing as our producer and novice investor, Aaron Freeman. Hey Aaron, Hello everybody. And this week we have a special guest Pam Krueger of wealth ramp dot com. Hello pam. Let's get the ball rolling. But first, a quick disclaimer, should we discuss specific investments in this show? Do not take them as recommendations because they're not recommendations

listening in and sometimes contributing as our producer and novice investor, Aaron Freeman. Hey Aaron, Hello everybody. And this week we have a special guest Pam Krueger of wealth ramp dot com. Hello pam. Let's get the ball rolling. But first, a quick disclaimer, should we discuss specific investments in this show? Do not take them as recommendations because they're not recommendations

before you invest in anything, you've got to do your own research, you gotta make your own decisions.

before you invest in anything, you've got to do your own research, you gotta make your own decisions.

Okay guys, let's get to it. Now pam is an expert at this because pam owns a business

Okay guys, let's get to it. Now pam is an expert at this because pam owns a business

that helps match people with financial advisors. Tell us a little bit about that pam.

that helps match people with financial advisors. Tell us a little bit about that pam.

Well pam knows a little about this because I traveled the same exact path as you Stacy with the exact same outlook on do it yourself versus have advice. I mean you and I are twins in this way. Um I too had the experience of, you know, being involved with wire house um major brokerage firm independent advisors. Um and I walked away from that experience having said my God, look at all the digital tools that are out there, why would anybody ever need an advisor? And when I was doing our tv series money trap that was on nationally on PBS stations. Our viewers

Well pam knows a little about this because I traveled the same exact path as you Stacy with the exact same outlook on do it yourself versus have advice. I mean you and I are twins in this way. Um I too had the experience of, you know, being involved with wire house um major brokerage firm independent advisors. Um and I walked away from that experience having said my God, look at all the digital tools that are out there, why would anybody ever need an advisor? And when I was doing our tv series money trap that was on nationally on PBS stations. Our viewers

told me that there were many times where they wanted help, they wanted help, they wanted help and it was beyond

told me that there were many times where they wanted help, they wanted help, they wanted help and it was beyond

the digital tools and it was beyond the robo advisors. And so I had to make room even though I had this bias against advisers, I had to flip the

the digital tools and it was beyond the robo advisors. And so I had to make room even though I had this bias against advisers, I had to flip the

script and say pam stop thinking about the 97% of advisors you don't think people need and maybe realize that there are people who want human help and focus on the 3%

script and say pam stop thinking about the 97% of advisors you don't think people need and maybe realize that there are people who want human help and focus on the 3%

who are out there of advisors who truly are competent fiduciary and absolutely can earn an a on a report card. And that's the only reason I launched wealth ramp which builds a bridge between consumers looking for that kind of help and advisors because good luck trying to figure out who these advisers are and how you're going to get your money's worth from them without having some kind of help

who are out there of advisors who truly are competent fiduciary and absolutely can earn an a on a report card. And that's the only reason I launched wealth ramp which builds a bridge between consumers looking for that kind of help and advisors because good luck trying to figure out who these advisers are and how you're going to get your money's worth from them without having some kind of help

Now pam. And by the way, Pam and I have exactly the same careers, it's really kind of amazing. We we met 30 years ago Pam.

Now pam. And by the way, Pam and I have exactly the same careers, it's really kind of amazing. We we met 30 years ago Pam.

God, yeah.

God, yeah.

Is it anyway, so we were competitors friendly competitors selling

Is it anyway, so we were competitors friendly competitors selling

video selling financial news to tv stations, Right?

video selling financial news to tv stations, Right?

And we're also both stockbrokers for 10 years before that, is that correct? Yeah, we have almost identical careers,

And we're also both stockbrokers for 10 years before that, is that correct? Yeah, we have almost identical careers,

yep. And then I had a few years in the independent fiduciary advisor space. And so that's how I got to look into the back offices and take sneak peeks into all these different business models and how they were working and I walked away from that saying um

yep. And then I had a few years in the independent fiduciary advisor space. And so that's how I got to look into the back offices and take sneak peeks into all these different business models and how they were working and I walked away from that saying um

I don't think I'd ever want an advisor if I were a consumer because it's too confusing. # one

I don't think I'd ever want an advisor if I were a consumer because it's too confusing. # one

and number two, they're all over the map. How do you, how do you know who's who and for what I need? That's why I that's why I just like you, that's why I kept trying to teach people do it yourself.

and number two, they're all over the map. How do you, how do you know who's who and for what I need? That's why I that's why I just like you, that's why I kept trying to teach people do it yourself.

You know, pam Just the other day, I made a substantial contribution to a defined benefit plan

You know, pam Just the other day, I made a substantial contribution to a defined benefit plan

Um to lower my taxes for 2021 and I I did it through Charles Schwab, but I did not have an account before that

Um to lower my taxes for 2021 and I I did it through Charles Schwab, but I did not have an account before that

and I was talking to the Charles Schwab guy. I mean he called me immediately as soon as I deposited the significant sum into their accounts.

and I was talking to the Charles Schwab guy. I mean he called me immediately as soon as I deposited the significant sum into their accounts.

And he's like, and I said you know, I used to do this myself, I was a financial advisor.

And he's like, and I said you know, I used to do this myself, I was a financial advisor.

You know I worked for E. F. Hutton

You know I worked for E. F. Hutton

and he's like what?

and he's like what?

And I said you know, okay, okay, I worked for Shearson.

And I said you know, okay, okay, I worked for Shearson.

What you never heard of share? So

What you never heard of share? So

Yeah, and I'm like, okay, like were you born like 15 minutes ago? I mean you're gonna give me financial advice. But anyway, that being said

Yeah, and I'm like, okay, like were you born like 15 minutes ago? I mean you're gonna give me financial advice. But anyway, that being said

what let's go pros and cons

what let's go pros and cons

one obvious kind of financial, getting paying for financial advice is you're paying it costs money, right?

one obvious kind of financial, getting paying for financial advice is you're paying it costs money, right?

This is the whole point.

This is the whole point.

You have to have some intelligent way to scope out what you need to figure out

You have to have some intelligent way to scope out what you need to figure out

your expectations, What do I want

your expectations, What do I want

if I engage and actually pay a fee over and over again to an advisor, what do I want from that relationship? How do I squeeze the value? Because when it's done right, that fee will pay for itself. But more often than not Stacey, it's not done correctly because so many of the advisors in the industry have something they want to sell you and that's not advice that sales. So the pros

if I engage and actually pay a fee over and over again to an advisor, what do I want from that relationship? How do I squeeze the value? Because when it's done right, that fee will pay for itself. But more often than not Stacey, it's not done correctly because so many of the advisors in the industry have something they want to sell you and that's not advice that sales. So the pros

are of having the help when you need it or that picture yourself finally getting to the point where your life is becoming layered and complex

are of having the help when you need it or that picture yourself finally getting to the point where your life is becoming layered and complex

and you have, you know, all kinds of situations Rmds coming up where you've got a Roth ira conversions and tax focus planning or stock options and you want to hit the help button,

and you have, you know, all kinds of situations Rmds coming up where you've got a Roth ira conversions and tax focus planning or stock options and you want to hit the help button,

you know, this is where if you get the right help,

you know, this is where if you get the right help,

that's a game changer forever. It takes the stress out and you have someone with whom and here comes the keyword,

that's a game changer forever. It takes the stress out and you have someone with whom and here comes the keyword,

collaborate.

collaborate.

Okay, now now Miranda Miranda's and we're all financial people. Well Aaron is becoming a financial person but his his technical job as he's a videographer. But the three of us, we literally do this for a living.

Okay, now now Miranda Miranda's and we're all financial people. Well Aaron is becoming a financial person but his his technical job as he's a videographer. But the three of us, we literally do this for a living.

Um now, so let me go to Miranda and say Miranda,

Um now, so let me go to Miranda and say Miranda,

you would begin

you would begin

to hire a financial advisor, would you?

to hire a financial advisor, would you?

Yeah, I mean I've I've actually sat down and done a thing where where I've like gotten a little bit of financial planning help and a little bit of direction, so I find it useful to have somebody outside to look at things

Yeah, I mean I've I've actually sat down and done a thing where where I've like gotten a little bit of financial planning help and a little bit of direction, so I find it useful to have somebody outside to look at things

and you know, kind of do a fee only sort of just look at what's going on as far as managing my money, um that kind of thing, that's not really something that I'm super interested in. Uh but I do like the idea of having an outside

and you know, kind of do a fee only sort of just look at what's going on as far as managing my money, um that kind of thing, that's not really something that I'm super interested in. Uh but I do like the idea of having an outside

person just kind of look at my finances, see where I'm on track, see if I need to make some tweaks and help me create a financial plan. So I'm not really opposed to it, it's not something I do very often,

person just kind of look at my finances, see where I'm on track, see if I need to make some tweaks and help me create a financial plan. So I'm not really opposed to it, it's not something I do very often,

but every now and again I do like to get that check and so like that, that double check and that tweak, and so I'll sit down with somebody and have them kind of look at, you know what I'm doing, Whether it makes sense for me, it doesn't mean that I want them to manage my money or manage my assets, but

but every now and again I do like to get that check and so like that, that double check and that tweak, and so I'll sit down with somebody and have them kind of look at, you know what I'm doing, Whether it makes sense for me, it doesn't mean that I want them to manage my money or manage my assets, but

but yeah, because I because it's very simple for me, right, I just

but yeah, because I because it's very simple for me, right, I just

keep putting stuff in index funds and try weird experiments, so nothing really, nothing really exciting there. So what we're talking about financial planning, hold on, we're talking about financial planning here are we're not talking about day to day shopping habits here, we're talking about, you know, just basically retirement, we're talking about like a retirement account, just making investments,

keep putting stuff in index funds and try weird experiments, so nothing really, nothing really exciting there. So what we're talking about financial planning, hold on, we're talking about financial planning here are we're not talking about day to day shopping habits here, we're talking about, you know, just basically retirement, we're talking about like a retirement account, just making investments,

okay, so

okay, so

let's say you don't know anything, let's say you're, let's say you're like, well you're scared of buying stocks, you're scared of all of this stuff. Let's say you're a,

let's say you don't know anything, let's say you're, let's say you're like, well you're scared of buying stocks, you're scared of all of this stuff. Let's say you're a,

you're you're

you're you're

millennial or whatever. What's the entry point here where you should say, okay, this is,

millennial or whatever. What's the entry point here where you should say, okay, this is,

this is uh this is a type of fee which this is a good feed to pay for. A financial advisor. Don't go beyond this. A financial advisor ask you this much in a fee that's that's beyond scope. Or how does that, how does that work pam when who needs a financial advisor?

this is uh this is a type of fee which this is a good feed to pay for. A financial advisor. Don't go beyond this. A financial advisor ask you this much in a fee that's that's beyond scope. Or how does that, how does that work pam when who needs a financial advisor?

Um

Um

many people don't,

many people don't,

Many people don't. Um and then many people will when they don't realize that they don't think they will and then they will like Miranda, you may not need that today or want that today. What I've learned from people who have taught me, there are viewers from our show is that, you know, when I was 40, I didn't feel I needed an advisor.

Many people don't. Um and then many people will when they don't realize that they don't think they will and then they will like Miranda, you may not need that today or want that today. What I've learned from people who have taught me, there are viewers from our show is that, you know, when I was 40, I didn't feel I needed an advisor.

Um not even, not even what Miranda said just for the fresh eyes check in once in a while and then all of a sudden life changes. You know, there's so many things you can control so many things you can't control, then you're married, you've got a family, you've got dynamics that are changing all around you, I don't think there's any rule of thumb baseline. I think that it's individuals. So my niece

Um not even, not even what Miranda said just for the fresh eyes check in once in a while and then all of a sudden life changes. You know, there's so many things you can control so many things you can't control, then you're married, you've got a family, you've got dynamics that are changing all around you, I don't think there's any rule of thumb baseline. I think that it's individuals. So my niece

whose only she's extremely interested in getting on track and she has a great income but no assets yet. So she she said to me that she wanted to meet with one of the planners that's in my network why planners? And we have you know everything up to you know of course through investment advisers who managed portfolios that are 20 5100 million. So for Haley um I did pair her up with a financial planner who sat down and did what Miranda is doing like every now and again to check in. So Aaron a reasonable um price to pay a reasonable fee to pay for the right person. And we're gonna we're gonna focus on that a lot has to be the right advisor for you.

whose only she's extremely interested in getting on track and she has a great income but no assets yet. So she she said to me that she wanted to meet with one of the planners that's in my network why planners? And we have you know everything up to you know of course through investment advisers who managed portfolios that are 20 5100 million. So for Haley um I did pair her up with a financial planner who sat down and did what Miranda is doing like every now and again to check in. So Aaron a reasonable um price to pay a reasonable fee to pay for the right person. And we're gonna we're gonna focus on that a lot has to be the right advisor for you.

Um when you when you're talking about that level, you're talking about something like an entry point of maybe $1,500.

Um when you when you're talking about that level, you're talking about something like an entry point of maybe $1,500.

You know, realistically maybe $2500 if you want to

You know, realistically maybe $2500 if you want to

be talking

be talking

about.

about.

Yeah that would have cost you out of pocket because you're paying these advisers because their fiduciary and they work only for you, they're not getting commissions to sell you insurance policies, they're just working only for you. So your fee is going to be wholly dependent whether you have 100 billion or whether you have $1,000,

Yeah that would have cost you out of pocket because you're paying these advisers because their fiduciary and they work only for you, they're not getting commissions to sell you insurance policies, they're just working only for you. So your fee is going to be wholly dependent whether you have 100 billion or whether you have $1,000,

it's going to be dependent on how much time

it's going to be dependent on how much time

and how much complexity is involved in your case. So how much time does the adviser need to spend on your case? Because it's not complicated, it can be really in and out pretty easy if it's something that is extremely complicated that involves estate planning attorneys and second marriages and businesses that you sold in real estate cash flows.

and how much complexity is involved in your case. So how much time does the adviser need to spend on your case? Because it's not complicated, it can be really in and out pretty easy if it's something that is extremely complicated that involves estate planning attorneys and second marriages and businesses that you sold in real estate cash flows.

Well, obviously that's going to be more time and more complexity. So that's how you look at how you pay for an adviser's time. But the key to the whole success of it is what kind of advisor. I know, it feels like they're all like, think of it almost like a

Well, obviously that's going to be more time and more complexity. So that's how you look at how you pay for an adviser's time. But the key to the whole success of it is what kind of advisor. I know, it feels like they're all like, think of it almost like a

a paper cardboard cutout

a paper cardboard cutout

of some guy who's just an astute and it's like, oh, that's an adviser. No, there's like, there's a zillion different types of advisors and out of those who can truly earn and demonstrate that there truly competent and have the experience, there's specializations within these advisers and you don't want to go to the wrong advisor. That's the key.

of some guy who's just an astute and it's like, oh, that's an adviser. No, there's like, there's a zillion different types of advisors and out of those who can truly earn and demonstrate that there truly competent and have the experience, there's specializations within these advisers and you don't want to go to the wrong advisor. That's the key.

Well, now let me I want to go back to something Miranda said, because I'm curious about this myself. Um I I got a financial plan through my own financial website and so these people approach me and, you know, blah blah blah. Anyway, I got a free financial plan is the bottom line

Well, now let me I want to go back to something Miranda said, because I'm curious about this myself. Um I I got a financial plan through my own financial website and so these people approach me and, you know, blah blah blah. Anyway, I got a free financial plan is the bottom line

and I've never considered, I mean, I've written five books on this topic. I mean, yeah, I don't really need any help. But nonetheless, um I did it just to see what it would be like because we're thinking about offering them to our readers, you know, having these plans. So um I got a plan myself and I got basically I got an Atta boy. I mean they got, you know,

and I've never considered, I mean, I've written five books on this topic. I mean, yeah, I don't really need any help. But nonetheless, um I did it just to see what it would be like because we're thinking about offering them to our readers, you know, having these plans. So um I got a plan myself and I got basically I got an Atta boy. I mean they got, you know,

Got all my information. Then he came back with a document and all that stuff. You know, it's like I think it was supposed to cost $500 anyway, but it made me feel good knowing I was on the right track.

Got all my information. Then he came back with a document and all that stuff. You know, it's like I think it was supposed to cost $500 anyway, but it made me feel good knowing I was on the right track.

That's my point.

That's my point.

Um So now, but what Miranda was saying earlier was I'd like to know that know that I'm on the right track. Have somebody look at it and say yeah you're doing well but I don't want to pay $1500 for that. I mean I could look at any of y'all's financial plans. I don't care how much money you have and I can tell you in 15 minutes whether you're on the basic right track.

Um So now, but what Miranda was saying earlier was I'd like to know that know that I'm on the right track. Have somebody look at it and say yeah you're doing well but I don't want to pay $1500 for that. I mean I could look at any of y'all's financial plans. I don't care how much money you have and I can tell you in 15 minutes whether you're on the basic right track.

So what am I gonna pay $1,500 to have somebody tell me I'm on the right track, what's involved here. I mean like they're gonna they're gonna call me every week. How does this work?

So what am I gonna pay $1,500 to have somebody tell me I'm on the right track, what's involved here. I mean like they're gonna they're gonna call me every week. How does this work?

Well, it depends on the kind of engagement that you want. So let's just say that you do want the one and done, you know, which frankly unless you're young.

Well, it depends on the kind of engagement that you want. So let's just say that you do want the one and done, you know, which frankly unless you're young.

I don't think it's in your best interest to get the one and done when you're older and I'll tell you what when you're moving along in your career because things change so quickly and and if you get the one and done and you think you're fine Stacy and then in two years from now life has changed. Interest rates are up, stock markets change. Other things in your life have changed, you're gonna dust that dust off that report you got two years ago, you're gonna pull it up online, look at it and you're gonna go, oh but I'm still on track and it's like, well no because that was then and this is now it's a snapshot in time. So if you if you do want to check in and you want that, just give me some fresh eyes. Like Miranda said, just tell me that could be that could be $700 or $500 for a couple of hours of a really good um planners. Time to dig in. Now the financial planner whose right is going to be looking at everything holistically and they're gonna look at your blind spots. They're not just gonna give you a piece of paper that's just a cookie cutter software generated thing. You could have done yourself,

I don't think it's in your best interest to get the one and done when you're older and I'll tell you what when you're moving along in your career because things change so quickly and and if you get the one and done and you think you're fine Stacy and then in two years from now life has changed. Interest rates are up, stock markets change. Other things in your life have changed, you're gonna dust that dust off that report you got two years ago, you're gonna pull it up online, look at it and you're gonna go, oh but I'm still on track and it's like, well no because that was then and this is now it's a snapshot in time. So if you if you do want to check in and you want that, just give me some fresh eyes. Like Miranda said, just tell me that could be that could be $700 or $500 for a couple of hours of a really good um planners. Time to dig in. Now the financial planner whose right is going to be looking at everything holistically and they're gonna look at your blind spots. They're not just gonna give you a piece of paper that's just a cookie cutter software generated thing. You could have done yourself,

they're going to and here's the key. They want to stress test your assumptions. That's the whole point in wanting a second pair of eyes. Even for you Stacey, you want someone who's going to stress test what you're assuming is working in your life holistically again, real estate, your plans, your cash flows. So if you do it right, it's gonna take time and yeah, if you want to pay under 500 you can go get a self generated report or you can go to a cookie cutter and you can get that. I don't recommend that. I think if you're going to do it and you really want to get a look at truly stress testing your assumptions and projections, I think you need to have somebody who's going to spend at least three or four hours and that's going to cost you, you know, $250 an hour that at a minimum.

they're going to and here's the key. They want to stress test your assumptions. That's the whole point in wanting a second pair of eyes. Even for you Stacey, you want someone who's going to stress test what you're assuming is working in your life holistically again, real estate, your plans, your cash flows. So if you do it right, it's gonna take time and yeah, if you want to pay under 500 you can go get a self generated report or you can go to a cookie cutter and you can get that. I don't recommend that. I think if you're going to do it and you really want to get a look at truly stress testing your assumptions and projections, I think you need to have somebody who's going to spend at least three or four hours and that's going to cost you, you know, $250 an hour that at a minimum.

Well, okay, you know, I've got one huge objection to, to, uh, financial advisors are money managers or financial planners. And I'm gonna tell you what that is. Right after

Well, okay, you know, I've got one huge objection to, to, uh, financial advisors are money managers or financial planners. And I'm gonna tell you what that is. Right after

I take a quick break, We're going to be right back.

I take a quick break, We're going to be right back.

Okay, we're back. Now, here's, here's the problem I have. This is true with realtors too. By the way,

Okay, we're back. Now, here's, here's the problem I have. This is true with realtors too. By the way,

My house was worth $500,000 when I bought it.

My house was worth $500,000 when I bought it.

The realtor didn't do a darn thing to make my house go up in value. Now. It's worth $1 million. Well, the commission to sell that house is now going to be $60,000 when it used to be 30,000.

The realtor didn't do a darn thing to make my house go up in value. Now. It's worth $1 million. Well, the commission to sell that house is now going to be $60,000 when it used to be 30,000.

They didn't do anything to enhance the value of my house. But they're getting twice as much money. Now let me relate that back to our topic today.

They didn't do anything to enhance the value of my house. But they're getting twice as much money. Now let me relate that back to our topic today.

Um a lot of financial planners, they want 1% of assets under management. Pretty common, right Pam

Um a lot of financial planners, they want 1% of assets under management. Pretty common, right Pam

This is the question that I get every single day

This is the question that I get every single day

Because you know, the market's going up 20% plus for the last three years. In other words, the market has doubled

Because you know, the market's going up 20% plus for the last three years. In other words, the market has doubled

In the last 10 years, doubled more than

In the last 10 years, doubled more than

Okay. So this guy who was making, you know, $10,000 on my million dollar portfolio is now making you know, he's making 20,000. He had he had done a darn thing.

Okay. So this guy who was making, you know, $10,000 on my million dollar portfolio is now making you know, he's making 20,000. He had he had done a darn thing.

No, that that

No, that that

it should not happen. Okay,

it should not happen. Okay,

Okay. So what does happen in real life?

Okay. So what does happen in real life?

What does happen in real life is with again, I hate to do this to you, but again, all advisers are not created equal. So you may have advisors out there that charge these assets under management fees fine. That's that's that's fine. Um But they are,

What does happen in real life is with again, I hate to do this to you, but again, all advisers are not created equal. So you may have advisors out there that charge these assets under management fees fine. That's that's that's fine. Um But they are,

you know, allowing that fee to get that high so that your fee would double but if you're with the right advisor and you agree that it's okay to pay that advisor on this asset's value assets under management if you want to, you don't always have to Stacy. You don't always have to you guys, you can have a different arrangement. I'll explain that. But if you do agree to that

you know, allowing that fee to get that high so that your fee would double but if you're with the right advisor and you agree that it's okay to pay that advisor on this asset's value assets under management if you want to, you don't always have to Stacy. You don't always have to you guys, you can have a different arrangement. I'll explain that. But if you do agree to that

bad advisor, who's the right advisor,

bad advisor, who's the right advisor,

they're not going to all of a sudden double your fee because the market took your investments and the value of all of your assets to that level your fee will be reduced down percentage wise so that you're paying,

they're not going to all of a sudden double your fee because the market took your investments and the value of all of your assets to that level your fee will be reduced down percentage wise so that you're paying,

you know the same pretty much the same. They're not going to increase and double your fees simply because

you know the same pretty much the same. They're not going to increase and double your fees simply because

the market did the work

the market did the work

and and by the way I should hasten to add to that, it could be this financial adviser doubled my money with his suggestions or her suggestions. You know that that could also meet you well then they do deserve to to participate in that profit because they created it.

and and by the way I should hasten to add to that, it could be this financial adviser doubled my money with his suggestions or her suggestions. You know that that could also meet you well then they do deserve to to participate in that profit because they created it.

But I was just thinking like I have 35 stocks and if I just turn them over to a financial advisor right now and start paying $10,000 for something that wouldn't cost me anything.

But I was just thinking like I have 35 stocks and if I just turn them over to a financial advisor right now and start paying $10,000 for something that wouldn't cost me anything.

I really I really teach people and I really urge people not only to talk about the fees,

I really I really teach people and I really urge people not only to talk about the fees,

I teach them how to have the conversation with the adviser openly and avoid the big awkward conversation at the end, Have that conversation upfront about is there a different way if I don't want you to manage my portfolio coming in the door? I mean this is our first date,

I teach them how to have the conversation with the adviser openly and avoid the big awkward conversation at the end, Have that conversation upfront about is there a different way if I don't want you to manage my portfolio coming in the door? I mean this is our first date,

you know, I don't want to marry you on the first date, I just want to have you do the financial planning and we need it and you know I can pay you know, I'm going to pay the financial planning fee and then maybe I'll change my mind

you know, I don't want to marry you on the first date, I just want to have you do the financial planning and we need it and you know I can pay you know, I'm going to pay the financial planning fee and then maybe I'll change my mind

and maybe I'll want you to actually manage my portfolio. We have a lot of advisers in the wealth gap network who works exactly that way. They'll say yes we can start out one way we can flex, we talk about it, we talk it through and here's that keyword again. We collaborate,

and maybe I'll want you to actually manage my portfolio. We have a lot of advisers in the wealth gap network who works exactly that way. They'll say yes we can start out one way we can flex, we talk about it, we talk it through and here's that keyword again. We collaborate,

collaborate not only on your whole financial life

collaborate not only on your whole financial life

and your kids we collaborate on the fees as well. So when it's done correctly that fee is going to pay for itself.

and your kids we collaborate on the fees as well. So when it's done correctly that fee is going to pay for itself.

But that sounds really good. And you know it reminds me of when when I was a stockbroker a billion years ago there were still dinosaurs walking around.

But that sounds really good. And you know it reminds me of when when I was a stockbroker a billion years ago there were still dinosaurs walking around.

Um I got a V. P. You know I got the corner office blah blah blah because I was doing really well. And and the first one of the first things I did was I wrote a letter

Um I got a V. P. You know I got the corner office blah blah blah because I was doing really well. And and the first one of the first things I did was I wrote a letter

to the president of E. F. Hutton

to the president of E. F. Hutton

And I said you know this business would be a lot cleaner now I was also commissioned 100% Commission. Okay.

And I said you know this business would be a lot cleaner now I was also commissioned 100% Commission. Okay.

Um And I said this business would be a lot better and I would feel a lot better about it

Um And I said this business would be a lot better and I would feel a lot better about it

If we didn't get paid just on commission if we got paid on customer satisfaction. So what if we said we retained 100% commission style but

If we didn't get paid just on commission if we got paid on customer satisfaction. So what if we said we retained 100% commission style but

we also had half of your commissions are withheld based on a contract that you signed with that client

we also had half of your commissions are withheld based on a contract that you signed with that client

on things that were not just objective but subjective. So in other words if you said to me I want to be contacted once a week

on things that were not just objective but subjective. So in other words if you said to me I want to be contacted once a week

I want to make sure I don't lose any principle. I want to earn at least 4% a year. So we would we would agree on whatever these terms were

I want to make sure I don't lose any principle. I want to earn at least 4% a year. So we would we would agree on whatever these terms were

And then every quarter I would be judged on how how good I was doing at meeting those terms. And that would prohibit me from promising because when you're when you're commissioned stockbroker you go well I'll make you 100% a year

And then every quarter I would be judged on how how good I was doing at meeting those terms. And that would prohibit me from promising because when you're when you're commissioned stockbroker you go well I'll make you 100% a year

because you don't care if you don't you don't

because you don't care if you don't you don't

but but I would care in this situation because if I don't leave, if I don't live up to the expectations are things I agreed to. I'm gonna have some of my income withheld.

but but I would care in this situation because if I don't leave, if I don't live up to the expectations are things I agreed to. I'm gonna have some of my income withheld.

Yeah. I mean you're away, you're way ahead of your time.

Yeah. I mean you're away, you're way ahead of your time.

You know that was like 1987 and you know what he's you know what he said, you know what how he responded.

You know that was like 1987 and you know what he's you know what he said, you know what how he responded.

I can imagine you're fired.

I can imagine you're fired.

He didn't respond. I did get fired from the company. Actually it took me a lot longer than that. I don't know how you would want to leave your your income based on the whims of people commenting it's written down if the thing was you know I need to call you once a month or once a week and I you know in other words what it's doing, Aaron is forcing us both, me, me as the advisor and you as the client to decide what are conditions of satisfaction are.

He didn't respond. I did get fired from the company. Actually it took me a lot longer than that. I don't know how you would want to leave your your income based on the whims of people commenting it's written down if the thing was you know I need to call you once a month or once a week and I you know in other words what it's doing, Aaron is forcing us both, me, me as the advisor and you as the client to decide what are conditions of satisfaction are.

And the reason I'm bringing up this long boring story is because I would urge you if you are going to go to a financial advisor to not

And the reason I'm bringing up this long boring story is because I would urge you if you are going to go to a financial advisor to not

to tie their income to it, but to say here is what I want,

to tie their income to it, but to say here is what I want,

I want you to call me, I expect to make 8% a year,

I want you to call me, I expect to make 8% a year,

I expect, you know, to make, you know this much in dividends, you know whatever in other words, you can't expect somebody to satisfy you if you don't if they don't know what the terms of that satisfaction are

I expect, you know, to make, you know this much in dividends, you know whatever in other words, you can't expect somebody to satisfy you if you don't if they don't know what the terms of that satisfaction are

And so you need to decide what that is. And if you say I expect to make 15% a year, hopefully that person sitting across the desk, he was going to say, I can't promise

And so you need to decide what that is. And if you say I expect to make 15% a year, hopefully that person sitting across the desk, he was going to say, I can't promise

that. It's not realistic

that. It's not realistic

pam is is there is there an analogy in the financial advisor system similar to like a

pam is is there is there an analogy in the financial advisor system similar to like a

mowing the yard? I mean, so like I'm I'm financially in an area where I'm mowing my own yards to to save money. But yeah, I'd like to be where Stacy is, where I'm hiring somebody else to do this so I don't have to do it and spend my time more wisely.

mowing the yard? I mean, so like I'm I'm financially in an area where I'm mowing my own yards to to save money. But yeah, I'd like to be where Stacy is, where I'm hiring somebody else to do this so I don't have to do it and spend my time more wisely.

Right, okay.

Right, okay.

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, I think so.

Absolutely. Let me take it in two parts, let me take it in two parts, first of all separating the advice from the sales getting away from look it's not that brokers

Absolutely. Let me take it in two parts, let me take it in two parts, first of all separating the advice from the sales getting away from look it's not that brokers

who work for brokerage firms or insurance companies are not nice people with great intentions and good advisors but the business model

who work for brokerage firms or insurance companies are not nice people with great intentions and good advisors but the business model

that they work under and report to it doesn't work for the client so we've got to get rid of that because sales is not advice right? Sales is not advice now your advice now it's right and you knew it and so did I way back then. So now you're over in the advice world now to your analogy yes I always like to say that there comes a point in time

that they work under and report to it doesn't work for the client so we've got to get rid of that because sales is not advice right? Sales is not advice now your advice now it's right and you knew it and so did I way back then. So now you're over in the advice world now to your analogy yes I always like to say that there comes a point in time

where even myself we've got this big garden that we've grown over the years and that garden is constantly in need of weeding and deadheading it's much more than just the returns you're getting. It's the Roth ira conversions, it's the timing of our M. D. S. It's the tax focus planning, it's the sale of a house or a business, it's my kids. It's all of this wrapped in that's all part of the garden and the maintenance

where even myself we've got this big garden that we've grown over the years and that garden is constantly in need of weeding and deadheading it's much more than just the returns you're getting. It's the Roth ira conversions, it's the timing of our M. D. S. It's the tax focus planning, it's the sale of a house or a business, it's my kids. It's all of this wrapped in that's all part of the garden and the maintenance

that you know what it takes to keep a garden from getting all leggy and ugly although all of that fertilization and everything at some point Aaron

that you know what it takes to keep a garden from getting all leggy and ugly although all of that fertilization and everything at some point Aaron

I don't I'm not gonna want to do all that maintenance myself. Not just because I don't want to have the time but because I need a partner who knows more than I and I need someone who's going to look at my blind spots and my biases and my bad habits and the fees that I might be paying in 41 K. Funds that I didn't even know that I was paying that I want audited. And if I can squeeze all that out

I don't I'm not gonna want to do all that maintenance myself. Not just because I don't want to have the time but because I need a partner who knows more than I and I need someone who's going to look at my blind spots and my biases and my bad habits and the fees that I might be paying in 41 K. Funds that I didn't even know that I was paying that I want audited. And if I can squeeze all that out

that goes straight into my return

that goes straight into my return

and that's part of where you get that return and that's part of where you get the value of the advisor. So I'm never going to be the person who's going to tell you you need this.

and that's part of where you get that return and that's part of where you get the value of the advisor. So I'm never going to be the person who's going to tell you you need this.

I'm going to be the person who says when you decide that you don't want to do all the gardening yourself anymore. Come to me and I'll help you I'll help you find the right

I'm going to be the person who says when you decide that you don't want to do all the gardening yourself anymore. Come to me and I'll help you I'll help you find the right

partner to collaborate with.

partner to collaborate with.

That's really that is a good analogy. And you know by the way this reminds me of something else every year at tax time we do stories saying it it kills me that people pay $300 to go to H. And R. Block or you know where whoever uh to an accountant it's fine to do that but get $300 out of it because let's let me listen

That's really that is a good analogy. And you know by the way this reminds me of something else every year at tax time we do stories saying it it kills me that people pay $300 to go to H. And R. Block or you know where whoever uh to an accountant it's fine to do that but get $300 out of it because let's let me listen

A C. P. A. Is going to take the information you give them your W. Two S blah blah blah and they're going to put it into a computer program, it's gonna spit out your tax return. In other words you're paying that person $300 a type.

A C. P. A. Is going to take the information you give them your W. Two S blah blah blah and they're going to put it into a computer program, it's gonna spit out your tax return. In other words you're paying that person $300 a type.

And so if that's what you're gonna do, don't do that type yourself. You know get get a software program and do your own taxes. So but if you are going to pay $300 get $300 worth. I'm a C. P. A. I pay an accountant and you know why? Two reasons. One because I want someone between me and the I. R. S. If I get audited and to

And so if that's what you're gonna do, don't do that type yourself. You know get get a software program and do your own taxes. So but if you are going to pay $300 get $300 worth. I'm a C. P. A. I pay an accountant and you know why? Two reasons. One because I want someone between me and the I. R. S. If I get audited and to

because I call him up and I say here's what I'm thinking I should be doing this year.

because I call him up and I say here's what I'm thinking I should be doing this year.

Is that right?

Is that right?

You know, tell me what I should do if you don't do that, if you just hand them your paper, well you're then you're crazy, you're not getting any, you're not getting anything back for the money that you're paying. It's the same thing here.

You know, tell me what I should do if you don't do that, if you just hand them your paper, well you're then you're crazy, you're not getting any, you're not getting anything back for the money that you're paying. It's the same thing here.

Exactly. And you know what Stacy, it's to me after doing this for so many years. It's all about, people want to become confident and comfortable

Exactly. And you know what Stacy, it's to me after doing this for so many years. It's all about, people want to become confident and comfortable

as they get closer to retirement and into retirement.

as they get closer to retirement and into retirement.

They want that peace of mind. So they're not they're not feeling that they're doing things wrong and and they want that person. So imagine now instead of $300 to you know, file your tax return and get your money's worth, you're talking about, I'm paying $10,000 a year, my spouse and I have a portfolio that's worth 1.8 million. Um that's how much we're paying in in advice fees at 10,000 a year. You you really want the peace of mind and confidence to know

They want that peace of mind. So they're not they're not feeling that they're doing things wrong and and they want that person. So imagine now instead of $300 to you know, file your tax return and get your money's worth, you're talking about, I'm paying $10,000 a year, my spouse and I have a portfolio that's worth 1.8 million. Um that's how much we're paying in in advice fees at 10,000 a year. You you really want the peace of mind and confidence to know

What's the adviser doing with me. Collaborating that makes me feel we've co developed an investment strategy and a tax strategy. That makes me feel like I'm getting, I'm getting 100% of the money back in the fee that I paid because otherwise I might have made a huge error.

What's the adviser doing with me. Collaborating that makes me feel we've co developed an investment strategy and a tax strategy. That makes me feel like I'm getting, I'm getting 100% of the money back in the fee that I paid because otherwise I might have made a huge error.

Like I had a client who just

Like I had a client who just

couple couple of weeks ago said, you know, we want to do it ourselves. We have five million. We're going to go to Italy next summer for a two month vacation. And

couple couple of weeks ago said, you know, we want to do it ourselves. We have five million. We're going to go to Italy next summer for a two month vacation. And

the advisor who's talking to the couple was was pointing out, I know you want to execute on your own and I know you want to pay me a flat fee retainer fee.

the advisor who's talking to the couple was was pointing out, I know you want to execute on your own and I know you want to pay me a flat fee retainer fee.

I'm a little bit concerned as, as your fiduciary

I'm a little bit concerned as, as your fiduciary

that if you miss the deadline because you're in Italy

that if you miss the deadline because you're in Italy

the one deadline that you missed could cost half of my fee for the whole year.

the one deadline that you missed could cost half of my fee for the whole year.

So people want to execute on their own Stacey when it gets complicated, will they really when the time comes, will they hit, will they really be able to do the tax loss harvesting if you can perfect, you don't need an advisor. But if you question that you don't think you will, then you can probably really expect to get your money's worth

So people want to execute on their own Stacey when it gets complicated, will they really when the time comes, will they hit, will they really be able to do the tax loss harvesting if you can perfect, you don't need an advisor. But if you question that you don't think you will, then you can probably really expect to get your money's worth

from the right advisor?

from the right advisor?

Yeah. And that makes total sense. And you know, I was just telling you guys in a previous in the previous podcast, we did a podcast on talking money with your honey. And I said my wife doesn't take an interest in this and I'm wildly interested in it. Well, there's a perfect example because if something happens to me and I'm much older than my wife, at least there'll be somebody there. So she's not gonna get ripped off by the first charlatan that comes along after I'm gone.

Yeah. And that makes total sense. And you know, I was just telling you guys in a previous in the previous podcast, we did a podcast on talking money with your honey. And I said my wife doesn't take an interest in this and I'm wildly interested in it. Well, there's a perfect example because if something happens to me and I'm much older than my wife, at least there'll be somebody there. So she's not gonna get ripped off by the first charlatan that comes along after I'm gone.

So having and also and also what Aaron said rang true to me too, I used to cut my own grass, take care of my own pool. I don't anymore because I don't want to, but

So having and also and also what Aaron said rang true to me too, I used to cut my own grass, take care of my own pool. I don't anymore because I don't want to, but

you don't you don't cut your own hair, do you? You don't cut your own hair.

you don't you don't cut your own hair, do you? You don't cut your own hair.

You might think so if you saw it. But if you're if you're a business minded person, I guess $10,000. Fiduciaries, like the cheapest employee you could ever have. Well, that's true. If they're good, they're good. Yeah,

You might think so if you saw it. But if you're if you're a business minded person, I guess $10,000. Fiduciaries, like the cheapest employee you could ever have. Well, that's true. If they're good, they're good. Yeah,

you're getting your money's worth,

you're getting your money's worth,

then, you know, you have that, you have that confidence because you're knowledgeable about what's going on, You're not handing it over guys, you're not blindly handing your money over and going, oh God, I hope and pray that this advisor is going to do Well, are you kidding me? You have to be involved in it as collaborating. And you have to know and have the knowledge of what's happening enough so that your co creating together

then, you know, you have that, you have that confidence because you're knowledgeable about what's going on, You're not handing it over guys, you're not blindly handing your money over and going, oh God, I hope and pray that this advisor is going to do Well, are you kidding me? You have to be involved in it as collaborating. And you have to know and have the knowledge of what's happening enough so that your co creating together

and stress testing everything and constantly keeping everything on track, keeping that garden

and stress testing everything and constantly keeping everything on track, keeping that garden

in great shape.

in great shape.

Yeah. And you know, and another thing to actually two things and we have to, we have to stop here and ask you a question pam. But um the two things, one do not ever, if you hear my voice, do not go to a commission based Financial Advisor period. I used to be one.

Yeah. And you know, and another thing to actually two things and we have to, we have to stop here and ask you a question pam. But um the two things, one do not ever, if you hear my voice, do not go to a commission based Financial Advisor period. I used to be one.

Uh so get somebody who's paying, you're paying by the hour.

Uh so get somebody who's paying, you're paying by the hour.

Um and um I was gonna say another thing too, and I can now I can't think of what it was,

Um and um I was gonna say another thing too, and I can now I can't think of what it was,

but just just be very careful about who you're talking to and always talk to more than one.

but just just be very careful about who you're talking to and always talk to more than one.

That's what I was gonna say. The only way, you know, and I don't care whether we're talking about a dentist, a mechanic, a doctor or a financial advisor.

That's what I was gonna say. The only way, you know, and I don't care whether we're talking about a dentist, a mechanic, a doctor or a financial advisor.

The only way you're gonna know the cream rises to the top after you talked to several,

The only way you're gonna know the cream rises to the top after you talked to several,

Tell them who you are, tell them what you expect and then see how they answer. And if you only do it with one person, you're not going to get a good idea, you need to do it with several before you pick one. Do you agree with that pam?

Tell them who you are, tell them what you expect and then see how they answer. And if you only do it with one person, you're not going to get a good idea, you need to do it with several before you pick one. Do you agree with that pam?

I couldn't agree more. Um I'll give you two quick questions that that I think that people should ask when they're talking. I mean assuming the advisor has already been vetted,

I couldn't agree more. Um I'll give you two quick questions that that I think that people should ask when they're talking. I mean assuming the advisor has already been vetted,

But once they landed on somebody you think is really good and you're going to compare the two. Ask them, please describe who are your typical clients and how are you helping them, what are you doing for them to earn this 50 year over year? And secondly, what's your fee based on how do you charge? How do how are people paying your fee?

But once they landed on somebody you think is really good and you're going to compare the two. Ask them, please describe who are your typical clients and how are you helping them, what are you doing for them to earn this 50 year over year? And secondly, what's your fee based on how do you charge? How do how are people paying your fee?

So you get those two questions and then that helps you get off to the races with a good discussion.

So you get those two questions and then that helps you get off to the races with a good discussion.

Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna close it there because you have a question, this is funny because you're gonna think I picked this question out or made it up because you're going to be on our show today. This literally is a question that I got yesterday.

Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna close it there because you have a question, this is funny because you're gonna think I picked this question out or made it up because you're going to be on our show today. This literally is a question that I got yesterday.

Uh, this question comes to us from Gary

Uh, this question comes to us from Gary

and Gary says,

and Gary says,

how should we best convince our son, age 33 to enlist a financial planner to help secure his future? There's two questions here. That's one. Number two, how can we find a financial planner in marietta Georgia who will work with him and his wife?

how should we best convince our son, age 33 to enlist a financial planner to help secure his future? There's two questions here. That's one. Number two, how can we find a financial planner in marietta Georgia who will work with him and his wife?

So this is a custom made question for you pam, although it honestly did just get it. So you answer these two questions, number one, how do you, how do they convince their son to enlist a financial planner?

So this is a custom made question for you pam, although it honestly did just get it. So you answer these two questions, number one, how do you, how do they convince their son to enlist a financial planner?

I don't know why they would want to convince him. Number one, I think that what they're trying to do is he's got fantastic intentions here. He wants to help his make sure that his

I don't know why they would want to convince him. Number one, I think that what they're trying to do is he's got fantastic intentions here. He wants to help his make sure that his

um, you know, that, but the kid really has, the child has the tools to be able to get on track going forward. The best thing to do if you really want to bring in a third party for that is simply just, you know, ask a financial planner to spend a couple of hours by the time from the advisor and, and, and either do it with them

um, you know, that, but the kid really has, the child has the tools to be able to get on track going forward. The best thing to do if you really want to bring in a third party for that is simply just, you know, ask a financial planner to spend a couple of hours by the time from the advisor and, and, and either do it with them

together

together

and have the discussion or just basically outline what the expectation would be that you're going to get out of it. What is this child going to get out of this child, the 33 year old going to get out of this. Um, and, and it should be, you know, walk away with a sense of, you know,

and have the discussion or just basically outline what the expectation would be that you're going to get out of it. What is this child going to get out of this child, the 33 year old going to get out of this. Um, and, and it should be, you know, walk away with a sense of, you know,

what you're doing with your money, what you're doing with these student loans, just listing off some things that can be,

what you're doing with your money, what you're doing with these student loans, just listing off some things that can be,

you know, organized, obviously you're a parent who cares greatly about getting your child off on the right foot. But I think the best way to convince is probably to find a really, really good and that's the next question planner and just by a couple of hours of time and and sit together and have a meeting together.

you know, organized, obviously you're a parent who cares greatly about getting your child off on the right foot. But I think the best way to convince is probably to find a really, really good and that's the next question planner and just by a couple of hours of time and and sit together and have a meeting together.

Okay, so now this is, this is a real opportunity to teach your own horn. How do they find a financial planner in marietta Georgia.

Okay, so now this is, this is a real opportunity to teach your own horn. How do they find a financial planner in marietta Georgia.

Okay, so in wealth ramp dot com that I've created for this reason, um, I'm the only website by the way that doesn't share or sell

Okay, so in wealth ramp dot com that I've created for this reason, um, I'm the only website by the way that doesn't share or sell

your personal information. So when you come to me, I'm not sharing that information with advisers. It's a one way mirror.

your personal information. So when you come to me, I'm not sharing that information with advisers. It's a one way mirror.

I'll show you the advisers who, who are the best fit closest to you as I can. I've got 240 advisors in our network all over the country. We do have advisors in Georgia and you will take a look at them and look at their profiles, their sec records and then it's up to you to initiate contact with them. Or you can also

I'll show you the advisers who, who are the best fit closest to you as I can. I've got 240 advisors in our network all over the country. We do have advisors in Georgia and you will take a look at them and look at their profiles, their sec records and then it's up to you to initiate contact with them. Or you can also

ask pam at wealth ramp dot com, just email me directly. Um, but happy to help. I mean that's what wealth ramp is all about.

ask pam at wealth ramp dot com, just email me directly. Um, but happy to help. I mean that's what wealth ramp is all about.

Awesome Pam. And, and again, I've known Pam for 30 years and I don't, I don't gratuitously put people on my podcast, but I do trust pam. In fact, you know what, I don't know if I've ever mentioned this to you pam, but I had to have a good friend in San Francisco and she asked about how to get a financial planner and I sent her to you and you, you talk to her directly.

Awesome Pam. And, and again, I've known Pam for 30 years and I don't, I don't gratuitously put people on my podcast, but I do trust pam. In fact, you know what, I don't know if I've ever mentioned this to you pam, but I had to have a good friend in San Francisco and she asked about how to get a financial planner and I sent her to you and you, you talk to her directly.

You know, people are shocked. They really are like, I'm talking to, you know, you're the one and I'm like, yeah, I'm here. This is I care deeply about this and passionate about this. I want people to do it right, Because I think it really matters that it's going to help their confidence if they get the right kind of help when they need it.

You know, people are shocked. They really are like, I'm talking to, you know, you're the one and I'm like, yeah, I'm here. This is I care deeply about this and passionate about this. I want people to do it right, Because I think it really matters that it's going to help their confidence if they get the right kind of help when they need it.

Well done. We are, we are out of time guys. We're gonna go ahead and close it out. Uh we're out of time. But you know what? We're never out of topic. Ever dig a little deeper. You're gonna find lots of links and more info in our show notes. And remember if your goal is to make more to spend less and retire rich, your online home is money talks news dot com.

Well done. We are, we are out of time guys. We're gonna go ahead and close it out. Uh we're out of time. But you know what? We're never out of topic. Ever dig a little deeper. You're gonna find lots of links and more info in our show notes. And remember if your goal is to make more to spend less and retire rich, your online home is money talks news dot com.

And don't forget to check out Miranda's online home as well. That is Miranda market Miranda, M A R Q U I T dot com. And of course you wanna visit pam at wealth, right? That's wealth ramp wealth wealth ramp dot com. If you, if you've got a question comment or a topic you'd like to suggest.

And don't forget to check out Miranda's online home as well. That is Miranda market Miranda, M A R Q U I T dot com. And of course you wanna visit pam at wealth, right? That's wealth ramp wealth wealth ramp dot com. If you, if you've got a question comment or a topic you'd like to suggest.

Tell us about it. You can email us at hello at money talks news dot com.

Tell us about it. You can email us at hello at money talks news dot com.

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