Your Instagram and TikTok are full of them: Influencers trying to convince you to part with your hard-earned cash and spend it on some trendy item that you won’t be using two weeks from now.
While conspicuous consumption has been all the rage in recent years, with influencers sharing their massive hauls, there’s been a shift. In fact, the latest trend is DEinfluencing.
Is deinfluencing really where it’s at? And will it save you money? This week’s guest, Kara Perez, is the founder of Bravely Go, a website that focuses on sustainable finances. She’s also a deinfluencer and the author of Green Money: How to Reduce Waste, Build Wealth, and Create a Better Future for All.
Ready to save more with a little deinfluenceing? Take a listen to this eye-opening discussion. But before you do, don't forget to subscribe to the Money Talks News newsletter and YouTube channel for more expert financial advice and money-saving strategies. Your future self will thank you!
0:00 - Intro: What is Deinfluencing?
3:45 - The Rise of Influencer Marketing
8:30 - Key Deinfluencing Strategies
14:15 - Balancing Sustainability and Consumerism
19:00 - Impact on Companies and Product Quality
23:30 - Making Money as a Deinfluencer
27:00 - Conclusion: The Future of Deinfluencing
Hey guys and welcome to Money Talks news, the podcast that makes you richer one day at a time. You know, your Instagram and Tik Tok are full of them influencers. They're trying to convince you to part with your hard earned cash and spend it on some trendy item that you won't be using in a couple of weeks with conspicuous consumption all the rage in recent years and influences sharing their massive halls. There's been a shift. In fact,
the latest trend is called de influencing, is de influencing really where it's at and will it save you money? This week's guest, Cara Perez is the founder of Bravely Go, a website that focuses on sustainable finances. She's also a de influencer and author of Green Money, how to reduce waste, build wealth and create a better future for all. Hey, Kara.
Hello. Thank you for having me.
It's great for you to be here and I can't wait to find out what, you know, I have to tell you something right off the bat. I have no idea. Influencers. I have no idea. I mean, I, I don't, I'm not on tiktok. I'm, I'm on Instagram but barely. And so I'm not really familiar with this whole topic. So, before you describe de influencing
what's influencing? Really?
Yeah, let's start with the basics. So let's travel back in time a little bit to the early two thousands when personal blogs are a thing. Do you all remember that period of the internet? Pre social media? Yes. So many of us did. And that's really the birth of influencing because people started getting online and sharing about their lives. And so a lot of it was like,
here's a day in my life or here's what I'm struggling with as a mom or here's what I'm hoping to achieve with my money, right? People would kind of pick a niche and discuss things and they would say, oh, you know, like I'm cooking for my family tonight in my Dutch oven.
And as the internet and as kind of shopping evolved companies started reaching out to these bloggers saying, hey, we noticed you have a post about cooking for your family using a Dutch oven. We're an instant pot company. Can we send you one? And will you write a blog post about us? And then that with the evolution of
internet into social media has really turned into influencing where the point of an influencer now is mostly to be an online sales person and to try and sell you products and influencers make money by getting a percentage of that sale from the company, right? Affiliate marketing
and people love influencers because it feels like a friend is giving you a review on products as opposed to a company trying to sell you something and you get a peek into people's lives. Right. You can see them in their kitchen using that instant pot. So you know what it looks like, you know how it
sounds, you know what it can cook and this person that you've followed and you know, their kids and you know what their house looks like and you have seen them maybe at their job, you're like, oh, well, if Susie uses the instant pot, I trust Susie, I can use the instant pot as well. And that's really what influencing is today and where it came
from.
You know, it's really funny. I, I have to stop here and tell you something about 15 years ago, maybe more.
Uh, one of my first hires, uh, Dan shown who's still with me today with the money talks
said, Stacy, you need to start getting on to, um, Twitter and, you know, you need to start talking to people. And I said, what do you mean talking to people? He said, just tell them what you're doing. I said, nobody gives a damn what I'm doing. He said, no, no, they're, they're just curious. It helps you connect with them. I said nobody wants to connect with me. I'm writing articles about money, you know, they don't care what I'm doing all day. Well, here's looking back now, what a huge mistake I made. I could have been an influencer. I could have been a contender.
It's interesting, isn't it though? Like, people, we are interested in what other people are doing, like you think? Oh, no one cares. But so many people do care.
Yeah. And I, I, by the way, still don't understand why. And especially now, ok, it may make sense if you're reading my articles, whatever. And I did TV, news for 30 years. So a lot of people have seen who I am,
but that's why I was saying they don't care who I am though. And, and I understand now that you make a connection with people, but here's something I don't understand in this circling back to our topic for today,
why do you care if I'm telling you to use this crock pot or use this razor? Don't, you know, someone's paying me to say that, doesn't that make it completely ridiculous?
Yeah, that's kind of the ultimate question about influencing. Now, now that I think the average viewer is much more aware of how influencers make money and how sponsorships work. But even just a few years ago, it was not as transparent that if someone recommended something they might be paid for it. So just imagine if you go to your friend Mike and Mike is like, oh man, you know, I really trust this mechanic down the street. He did a great job on my
are. And without knowing anything about that mechanic, you're honestly probably going to trust them more because someone you trust Mike has told you about it. So I think now that the transparency is there in a lot of ways, there is a little bit more suspicion on the part of the buyer, the consumer, but that was not always the case.
Yeah. And you know, and you know, by the way too, I, I, I've never, I mean, this has always been around, I mean, there was influencers long before there was an internet because there were people standing on TV, selling coffee or whatever, you know, movie stars or, or TV, stars selling this, that or the other. I never understood why that mattered either.
Why do I care who some pop star is voting for, for president? Why do I care some professional football player? What kind of lawn mower he uses? They, well, actually the pop star is not true. They're not getting paid. But, you know, the people who are selling products on TV, because they happen to be a movie star. Um I know they're getting paid. I mean, they probably don't use that product. So I, I've never really understood why people follow, you know, famous, what famous people say, whether they're online or offline.
It's interesting. I really think it boils down to both aspirational and relational
lifestyles. Like sometimes when you see a very famous, very beautiful celebrity, you might think. Oh, what's their skincare routine? I want to look like them right there. Like Angelina Jolie. I don't think any woman on this planet would be upset if they woke up looking like Angelina Jolie one day. Right. She's stunning. And so if she were to share her skincare routine that's going to sell those products because people want what she has, they want her beauty.
And then I also think there is an aspect especially with influencers as opposed to celebrities of, oh, well, you're a mom who talks about being overwhelmed by like managing full time work and having two kids. And here are products you use to make your day easier. Like I'm also struggling, let me get that so that my life will be easier.
That that actually makes thank you for making, for making that clear for me because that actually does make sense. See, see I've gone through life looking like Brad Pitt. So I don't really have to do anything, you know,
I mean,
you know, it's just how I am, but now I can understand now, now that I've made you explain what influencing is. Uh let's talk about de de influencing. What the heck is that?
Yeah. So this is very interesting to me as I sit here, like I am sitting here recording this in a button down that I got from a former roommate. So spent $0 on it and that is kind of the essence of de influencing. So with the rise of influencing and honestly, with the rise in cost of living and in the rise of everything becoming available for consumption, sort of like the rise of the subscription economy, the gig economy
we have now we are now getting rather push back into de influencing where people are saying, look, I'm sick of spending money. I don't actually want to have to spend
$50 to go out to eat with my friends. I just want to see my friends or I actually don't want to constantly be buying new makeup or new skincare or new parts for my car or new video games. I want to enjoy what I have. And so the de influencing movement or moment is about valuing what you have, repairing what you have and not spending money. So it's a push back against this constant consumerism and it's people celebrating doing less and living more simply.
I did a little, it sounds a lot like it sounds a lot like it sounds, it sounds a lot like the stock market cycles, doesn't it? Where emotion cycles through the shopping system where we have this moment of everybody buy, buy, buy and all of a sudden inflation kicks up. Now we can't afford anything. So now we do influence everybody so that we're like, oh, we've got to save money, save money and then it goes back and up and up, you know, Aaron, when you get to be as old
as me. Almost everything seems like a cycle. I mean, it really does. You know, you're supposed to paint your house this color and then 10 years later you're supposed to paint it white and then, you know, appliances, you know, they go, they're, they're um harvest gold and then they're stainless steel and then they become colored. I mean, all this seems like a cycle to me. Just the self grap to be honest with you.
But anyway, I went, yeah, Miranda, please. She's raising her hand. What's up? Yeah, I will say one of the things I do like about the current kind of de influencing trend because it really is very similar harkening back to what we've heard before about,
about, you know, getting ready for a recession, pulling back on your spending, saving your money, um spending according to your values, all that kind of stuff. But the thing that I like about this current de influencing trend is there a lot of the shame is taken away from it because a lot of the time
in the past when we've gone through cycles where people are trying to save money trying to spend less. There's a lot of shame about like, oh you're poor and I like this current cycle. Some of that shame and some of that stigma has gone away to where people are
saying, oh no, this is something aspirational because it really is rooted in that value of what Kara was talking about. Oh, I don't want to go out and spend $50 on a meal to see my friends. How can I just hang out with my friends and enjoy their company uh without having to spend a bunch of money to do it? And I think that's what I like about this current cycle is that there's a little less uh shame and stigma attached to uh trying to save money.
Now, here are now are, are either one of you ladies influencers? I mean, do you get, let me ask you specifically, do you get paid for promoting a product?
I have gotten paid to promote financial products. I've never gotten paid to promote like clothing or cleaning products or like a car which you sometimes see people
doing.
You mean like because you have a bunch of Instagram followers or something, they paid you to promote some financial product. Yes. OK. I want to get paid for promoting financial products.
Um I, I want to make money from doing this too. They, they, no. So, so you've done this before and now you're the influencer? So here's my question.
If you've got, if you've gotten paid to promote a product
and now you're de influencing
who's paying you,
I mean, aren't you cutting off your nose to spite your face there?
You
know. No, I don't think so. I think it's, there's two ways to look at consumption. I think right where there is sort of excessive overconsumption where you're ordering off of Amazon every day, you're buying something all the time and you're kind of chasing this endless high via spending
money and via shopping. And I see promotion of physical items as different than promotion of, like here's a bank account where you can keep your money or here's a budgeting app. Um, a because those two things aren't tangible in the same way that like a T shirt is tangible. And b because when you talk about promoting financial tools, generally they are
to help you build your finances. Whereas if you're talking about shopping or if you're influencing people to shop, it's about spending money and having less money. Um And so I see those as two different types of influencing honestly. And now obviously, if you're de influencing and if you're saying, like, don't buy anything, no company under capitalism is like, hey, we want you to talk about not shopping from us like that. So no one's hiring me to talk about de influencing.
Ok. So what the, what? Here's what I don't understand though. I mean, if you're, and some people make a handsome living as influencers, right? I mean, some people make millions of dollars as influencers. If you're gonna start de influencing and nobody's paying you to unrecommended something,
then why would you do it? I mean, what are you going to do with the, how are you going to make a living now.
Yeah, that's a good question that I actually do talk about in my book a little bit because um the third chapter is all about sustainable spending. Like we live on a planet with finite resources. So we really just can't kind of like mine and dig and extract from the planet forever because eventually we're going to run out of coal, eventually we're going to run out of diamonds. Right. Like there's just only so much on the planet. And so
what I talk about in the book a lot is finding both meaning and satisfaction as well as what you need to live outside of this endless consumer cycle. And so that's focusing on community building, that's focusing on learning skills, that's focusing on things that you're not going to find a target basically.
Um from a like this is my job perspective. You know, there are other ways to make money um rather than just making money from companies asking you to sell their products, right? Like I have a youtube channel. So I make money off of
my youtube videos. Not very much honestly, I'd like to make more, but
it's, I
have a youtube channel that doesn't make enough.
I mean, listen, we need to, after this, we'll share ideas on how to make more money off of youtube. But
my idea is
to start posting on youtube,
posting on youtube.
I like it, it's fun, but it's a lot of work
it's videos.
Now, I have a question. If I tell people not to buy your book. Does that make me ad influencer? Oh,
good question. So, I really feel like now we're getting into basically the question of like, how do we need to operate outside of a capitalist system? Because capitalism, I know it's kind of a buzzword for a lot of people right now. But really it's a system
that um is built on spending, right? It's built on creation and then spending. So that's the cycle. Someone builds something, someone buys it, someone builds something, someone buys it. And so really, I feel like the questions you're getting at are do we need to change this system or do we need to
embrace the system and just accept the fact that everyone's shopping all the time? And really what I talk about in the book and what I would say in answer to this is there's a middle ground you don't need. I would love it if people bought my book. I'm also thrilled if people get it from the library, right? Like it's ok to do both. Some people are going to buy my book. Some people are never going to read my book and some people are going to get it from the library and that's all good.
Yeah. You know, my first book I wrote in 2001, I believe. Uh I said the exact same thing. It was called Life or Death.
And, and I said that, you know, if you can't afford to buy my book, get it from the library. And also back then they didn't have, I mean, you could download stuff too, you know, and, and, and also being sustainable, I mean, you don't have to actually buy a physical book now to read a book. But what is it?
Yeah, it was a crazy conundrum when we're, because we're all doing finance here. And our big thing is to shout out and go, hey, you know, buy more stocks, buy more stocks, like the stock market go up, you know, and that requires people to buy products and buy the stuff that the companies are peddling, which means that we have to keep influencing, you know, keep buying that iphone 1500 bucks because I have stock in it and, you know, it's gonna help my retirement. But then you do influence that people stop buying all this stuff that makes the stock market go down. That hurts my retirement. So this is a crazy weird loop.
Yeah, you'd have to. Well, actually, now there are some things that we actually need, right? Uh, like, like iphones. Ok. I own, I own Apple care. So we don't actually need iphones, but obviously we do need some products and, and what, but what you said is, is, is totally true, Aaron, I mean, you know, if we're telling people to buy stuff, it's helping us ultimately, if we own the stocks in those companies and also watch on youtube, you'll see a lot of change, like what Kara is talking about
the difference in how they're making money. So they will do a review on a product, but they're not getting paid to do that review. They're just doing a review. But within that youtube video, they're actually getting like a, a sponsor from like Skillshare, you know, and Skillshare is the company that helps you learn how to do things. So they're just changing who they're getting money from. You know, it's not a product but now it's something that could be more beneficial.
Yeah. And you go, oh, well. So two things I wanted to say like I have, I don't even know how many, like 400 videos on my youtube and only, I think three of them have ever been sponsored. But, you know, you can make money from ads. Now. What are ads like, it's trying to get people to buy more stuff. So it all is in this vicious cycle, I think when it comes to
more sustainable living and when it comes to de influencing, the focus is really on the excess consumption. I really don't know any de influencer and I include myself in this, that's like, never buy anything ever again because that's impossible. And it's not realistic. And frankly I don't want to live that way. There's plenty of things I want to buy and there's a lot of things I need to buy. I'm not trying to live outside of the real world. I think it's more so about, like,
I think it's more so about buying actually what you need and also trying to buy less crap because there is a lot of crap. Right. Like, have you all noticed how the quality of many things has gone down in the last 10 years? And so that pushes you to have to replace things faster.
So we're in this cycle of I bought this thing. It only worked for a short period of time. I had to buy another thing, right? And what de influencing says is let's try and find something that's higher quality that lasts longer or let's buy something. If it breaks before we rush into buying, maybe we can try and fix it. Let's focus on learning skills as opposed to the only answer being buy, buy, buy. But of course, companies do want you to buy, buy, buy. And the influencing is saying, how about I just buy
just the one time?
Fair enough. Kara. Kara would you also say that the influencing is also pushing companies to make better products. Like a couple huge de influencers are Drew Gooden and Curtis Connor. I don't know if you've seen these guys on youtube, but they have 5 million views on each video and they beat the crap out of, of people like, like uh Tesla, you know, he'll, he'll run through and, you know, just show you how stupid this thing is to buy
and then in that process he's basically influencing corporations to go, uh, we're not going to buy this thing. You have to do better,
you know, and it's,
it's a reverse, you know, we call it in reverse psychology on companies, you know, how do you build a better product because we're not going to buy it?
Oh, my God. I hope so. I think that's a huge hope that I have with not just the influencers but just consumer pushback and consumer feedback. Like I don't know if y'all are seeing this drama right now with the Whole Foods. I think it's called the Chantilly Cake. Are you seeing this? Oh my gosh. Let me tell you.
So I've never had this cake but there's a cake that whole foods sells by the slice. It's called the Chantilly cake and it has like a berry um cream in the middle of it and it's made with fresh berries. It always has been. And in the last month they switched over to sort of like a gel like a paste and the pushback has been
crazy. People are furious. People are up in arms about it because it has decreased the flavor and the quality of the cake and I'm sure that the jelly is much cheaper to produce. So Whole Foods is trying to pull kind of a classic scam on us of I'll sell you the same product, but the quality is way lower and we'll sell it at the same price and we'll make more money. But the push back has been so
outrageous that Whole Foods had to issue a statement. The deal was that people were like, listen, I'm not buying this. If it's going to be crappy and Whole Foods had to release a statement being like that was just a mistake. Don't worry about it. The cake's coming back as normal. Please keep buying.
People are freaked out online about that.
Yes, they are furious.
People have the words to describe how little I care about shit like that. I mean, it's just amazing to me. No, it is good though. So we don't have a whole bunch of time left, but I want to ask you guys to do something and this is totally spur of the moment. Uh So I'm putting you on the spot, let's dein influence something. Let's do influence something right now. I'll start, I'll start,
I don't buy new cars because you don't need to buy a new car. I just bought a 2022 car. It's the newest car I've ever bought works fine. So I say you don't need to buy a new car. I mean, I, I know another, if nobody ever buys a new car, there won't be any used cars for me to buy. I get that. So, but there's gonna be enough people buying new cars. So that there's going to be used cars out there. I, I'm de influencing new cars. I say, don't buy them.
What do you think? Did I do? Did I delua?
Great job. I think you've de influenced very well. Um I will say that I would like to de influence people to buy fast fashion because it's really low quality. It's made in really horrendous conditions and most of the time it's not going to be a classic piece that can last for decades. You're going to wear it three times and then you're going to toss it.
What? You, you totally got me on that because I will guarantee you that I do not use fast fashion. I'm the t-shirt I'm wearing right now. I guarantee you is 10 years old.
Excellent.
Love it.
So you, so you, you, you de influenced me, Miranda, I can see you your, your mind ticking away down there.
So, so you didn't dein influence me on the new car because my new car cycle is every 10 years. I buy a new car. Um So you didn't de influence me on that. Uh But Ka Ka I'm, I'm with Kara on the fashion stuff. I actually use, I actually use a clothing rental service so that for like events that I go to or um you know, to have something kind of fun and new to wear,
I use, I use a rental service. And so all of my clothes are rented then I send them back, then I get something else. I have a few, like, I guess, classic high quality pieces that, um, well, that are black that I wear. Uh, but yeah, so I have a little capsule wardrobe. Um, my closet is very sad and small. Uh, but by some standards, I guess sad. But, um,
but yeah, like I, I don't buy clothes, so I'm with Kara on this one. just nice capsule wardrobe, use a rental service. And, uh, and that's how I dress myself. Awesome. Ok. Now you've had all kinds of time to think about it. What do you want to do? Influence us on?
Uh, I want to influence people on making youtube videos because there's too many of them and I can't watch them all. I need to influence people on going out to eat because it's really expensive to eat out there. And I want, I need restaurants to lower the prices on, you know, food and alcohol,
alcohol. It certainly is expensive. I'm not gonna de influence people drinking alcohol. However,
it happens to be a friend of mine, Kara. What have, what have I not asked you that you need her to tell me anything? I mean, do we cover the topic here?
I think we've covered the topic. Really? Well,
now one thing we need to do immediately is influence people to buy your book, which is called again,
Green Money,
the subtitles. Sorry. Let me redo that. So it's called Green Money. Uh reduce waste, build wealth and create a better future for all. But if you just need something Google Googleable, just type in green money and it'll pop up.
But
doesn't everybody already know that money is green.
But can we make it greener by being more sustainable? Yes, we can.
Ok.
So now, now we've influenced and we've dein influenced, what else could we possibly do with this podcast?
Anything to add? Miranda? I haven't heard much from you today.
Just one of the interesting things about Kara is that she recently divested from fossil fuels uh in terms of her portfolio. And so, um I would just love a really quick update on how that's gone and uh whether you know the portfolio that's divested from fossil
fuels.
Yes, my portfolio I've recently shared. So in September, I had earned a little over $33,000 this year in the stock market. So I'm very pleased with that.
Um And that's with no fossil fuels. So no oil, coal and gas companies.
And so you buy individual stocks.
Um, I buy um, mostly index funds actually, but I do own
three individual companies.
Well, you know, since I'm an individual stockholder owner, I own like 35 different stocks and, and I never have anybody on this podcast that owns individual shares. They're all in S and P 500. But let me ask you something real quick. S and P 500 index must have oil companies
in it.
It does. And I don't invest in that.
Ok. So, so how do you use, what? So you use index funds of different industries that aren't like the S and P 500?
Yeah. So just we're looking at smaller indexes. So instead of like the 500 I'm, I'm indexes that have like 300 companies and there's no shell, there's no, uh, Shell Chevron Exxon, those, those big baddies. Not for me personally.
Well, I'll tell you, I, I ride a bicycle a lot. Um, so I don't, I, I hardly ever drive my car and Aaron can testify to that. We hang out together.
Uh, but I do happen to own Chevron and, uh, Devon Energy and, um, oh, Conocophillips. Oh, and also Phillips petroleum, the refiner. So I do own these things, you know, you know, some of the stuff that I buy I buy because if stuff gets expensive then I wanna own the company that makes it like cable company. You know, anyone that pisses me off by charging too much like oil companies and stuff I try to buy, I will often buy their stocks. Not always anyway, but because of what you just told me
because you de influenced me and also because oil just spiked, I'm gonna sell o oil companies. I've owned it for many years actually. Do we have anything else? I'm sorry, Karen, you were gonna say something.
I was just making a get him out of
your. I will. I do everything you tell me. And so should you folks do?
Ok, folks, we're out of time but we are never out of topic. Dig a little deeper. You're gonna find links to lots more info on our show notes. And remember if your goal is to make more, to spend less to retire rich. Well, your online home is obviously money talks news.com and
don't forget to check out Miranda's online home as well. That is Miranda Marit Ma rquit.com. And of course, you want to visit Kara at her website immediately. Now, that's bravely go.com bravely go just like it sounds.co it is right, KA
dot C
o.co.com. But anyway, you look at bravely go which I did a little while ago. You'll find it right away. If you got a question, comment or topic, you'd like to suggest we would love to hear from you, email us at hello at Money Talks news.com.
And remember we're not giving you financial advice here today. So make sure that your own research and consult your own experts before acting on anything that you may have heard on this podcast, that means you can't sue us and now we're done, Kara, thank you so much for being here. We sure enjoyed your company and we're counting the minutes until you return to us.
Thank you so much for having me. You
bet. I'm Stacy Johnson. I'm Miranda Bart. I'm Aaron Truman.
Thanks for hanging out with us folks. We're gonna see you right here next time.