Michael is joined by John Blackburn AO, Air Vice-Marshal (Ret’d) / Chairman of the Institute for Integrated Economic Research – Australia, to chat about what would happen to Australia if we were to find ourselves in the same situation as Ukraine. 

Despite the courage of the Ukrainian people, it is clear that they are outmanned and outgunned against the Russians. Many experts believe that would Australia find itself in the same situation. John talks to Michael about why it's so critical that Australia become more self-sufficient and not so reliant on foreign supplies and aid.