Meeting of Minds Podcast

In December 2025, Bowyer Research president Jerry Bowyer delivered a speech on Genesis 1 at the 25th annual symposium for the Center for Cultural Leadership (CCL). After that speech was over, CCL senior fellow David Bahnsen remarked, “Can you imagine what would happen for Christian-oriented economics if the 30 minutes Jerry Bowyer gave here today were permeated across the land? The leverage in his messaging about this is absolutely world-transformative.” That’s a serious endorsement – and so we’re publishing that 30-minute speech from Jerry to you today for the education and, we hope, the encouragement and edification of our listeners. Learn more about the Center for Cultural Leadership here: https://christianculture.com/

In Ep. 124, Isaac Willour talks with Thomas Dias, Foundation Relations Specialist at the Acton Institute, about how Gen-Z can approach AI constructively, not reflexively. Join us for a discussion on: - How young Christians should be viewing technological innovation - The use case for AI - Responding to AI skepticism in 2026 and beyond

In Ep. 123, Jerry talks with C. Theodore Hicks II (CFP, CKA, CMT), founder and CEO of Hicks & Associates Wealth Management, about: The flaws in modern portfolio theory Is ‘diversification’ a free lunch? Lessons from Warren Buffett’s ‘secret sauce’ of investing Why financial advisors need to be ‘good Bereans’ – and what that means. Read Ted’s book, “Evidence-Based Investing” here: https://www.amazon.com/Evidence-Based-Investing-Long-Term-Sometimes-Short-Term/dp/B0FH65SD2K

In Episode 122, Jerry is joined by Dr. Allen Mendenhall, Senior Advisor for the Free Enterprise Initiative at the Heritage Foundation. Dr. Mendenhall previously worked as a lawyer and served as the Associate Dean of the Sorrell College of Business. Join us for a fascinating discussion on: What Ayn Rand-style libertarianism gets wrong about capitalism How ESG activism inherently hinders the knowledge necessary for free enterprise How conservative and red-state-centric brands go woke, and what to do about it The Heritage Foundation’s goals for its Free Enterprise Initiative (previously the Capital Markets Initiative) Learn more about The Heritage Foundation’s Free Enterprise Initiative here.

In Ep. 121, Jerry Bowyer interviews Rick Graber, CEO of The Bradley Foundation and former U.S. Ambassador to the Czech Republic, on the right’s shift from classical liberalism to nationalism, the failure to defend capitalism, and victories against DEI and ESG. Graber warns about judicial overreach and rising anti-Semitism, explains how Bradley Foundation grantees are steering corporations back to principle, and shares why, despite deep divisions, there’s still reason for optimism about America’s future.

Jerry Bowyer talks with Missouri State Auditor Scott Fitzpatrick about the hidden influence of proxy advisory firms like ISS and Glass Lewis. Fitzpatrick explains why most pension plans lacked proxy guidelines (and the results of not having them), and how the left uses boardrooms to advance agendas that fail at the ballot box. He shares progress made in pushing back against ESG and why the battle for shareholder engagement is far from over.

In Ep. 119, Jerry talks with West Virginia Treasurer Larry Pack, in a conversation touching on: How the ‘war on coal’ is connected to debanking controversies Debanking vs. Deplatforming: which is more dangerous, or are they the same? How Treasurer Pack is fighting for tax cuts for people wearing boots – not just suits.

In Ep. 118, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research sits down with Gabriella Hoffman, the director of the Center for Energy and Conservation at Independent Women's Forum. Join us for a wide-ranging conversation, including: The Gen-Z populism behind the rise of socialist candidates such as Zohran Mamdani The inherent privilege of being anti-energy — and why that matters Is ‘Abundance’ liberalism (1) real, (2) abundant, or (3) liberal? Why environmental conservation is conservative Check out Gabriella’s work here and follow her on X @Gabby_Hoffman.

In Ep. #117, Jerry speaks with Dr. John Fleming, treasurer of the state of Louisiana, for a wide-ranging conversation. Topics include: Do decarbonization efforts, from net zero to carbon capture, actually do anything? How racial gerrymandering creates a more polarized nation The history of property rights — and why that matters in creating wealth for ordinary Americans.

In this episode, Isaac is joined by Dr. Brian Dellinger, AI expert and professor of computer science at Grove City College. We discuss: What a real theology of technology looks like Why Christian culture is so reflexively anti-AI Can AI be a tool for kingdom-building? Hint: the answer’s yes. Check out Grove City College’s work with AI in Biblical translation here: https://www.gcc.edu/Home/News-Archive/News-Article/gcc-research-aims-to-improve-ai-biblical-translation

In this episode, Jerry welcomes Newsweek’s Jesse Edwards to unpack the controversy surrounding McDonalds’ decision to step back from its DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) hiring quotas. Together, they explore: Why corporations are expected to take stances on social and political issues at all How DEI initiatives often lead to further corporate activism — and unintended consequences Why these programs often harm the very people they pretend to support Jesse shares insights from his recent Newsweek article, arguing that complex societal challenges shouldn’t be solved through corporate experiments. As he puts it: “There’s no logical reason to expect a company like McDonald’s to solve these issues by using its workforce as guinea pigs for social engineering.” Listen in for a candid conversation on the limits of corporate responsibility — and why sometimes, fries should just be fries.

In Ep. 114, Jerry sits down with Alabama State Auditor Andrew Sorrell. Join us for a fascinating conversation on topics including: Sorrell’s personal experience with being debanked Who’s the bigger problem in debanking: big banks or regional banks? How debanking creates problems in the cryptocurrency industry How banking restrictions threaten Second Amendment rights - and how Alabama’s fighting back

In Episode 113 of Meeting of Minds, Utah State Treasurer Marlo Oaks returns for a compelling discussion on how alternative currencies—especially gold-backed systems—could offer economic resilience and restore financial autonomy to states seeking greater independence from federal monetary policy. Jerry and Treasurer Oaks explore: How gold is strengthening state rainy-day funds in Utah The role of precious metals in safeguarding against inflation and economic instability The constitutional foundation for issuing gold-backed currency Whether Bitcoin and digital assets offer a viable alternative in currency crises This episode dives deep into the intersection of economics, policy, and freedom—don’t miss it!

In Ep. 112, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research sits down with Dr. Chris DeArmitt, a materials scientist, author, and public speaker known for his work discussing misconceptions surrounding the environmental impact of plastics. Join us for a conversation about corporate America’s plastic policies, recycling, and what the future of real sustainability looks like. Check out Chris’ work here: plasticsresearchcouncil.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisdearmitt/

In Ep. 111, David Bahnsen returns to the podcast to discuss how high-achievers struggle to relate to the church, how the lessons of God’s creation carry a call to human ambition, and other lessons sparked from his recent book Full-Time: Work and the Meaning of Life. Check out David’s recent book here: https://www.fulltimebook.com/

Oklahoma State Treasurer Todd Russ gave this speech at Lululemon's annual meeting of shareholders recently, defending a shareholder proposal urging the company to back away from partnering with non-fiduciary corporate activist groups like the Human Rights Campaign, and take seriously the controversy caused by the company's previous donations to radical organizations like Black Lives Matter & Reclaim the Block (which called for the defunding of the Minneapolis Police Department). We present Treasurer Russ' speech here for our listeners.

In Ep. 110, Jerry sits down with author Eric Dunavant, author, entrepreneur and creator of the Kingdom ROI (Return on Intention) method. They discuss Eric’s recent book, At the Bistro with Bob, the story of Dunavant’s friendship with oilman Bob Pritchard. Jerry & Eric also discuss the importance of exercising ownership of companies, how to balance transferring wisdom & wealth, and Eric’s work teaching high-net-worth people to build & maintain relationships, not just money. Check out At the Bistro With Bobhere.

In Ep. 109, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research sits down with Tommy Martin, CEO of the Tebow Group. Join us for a wide-ranging conversation on topics like:   Biblical lessons for business – from 1 Samuel to Paul How Christians should navigate the 21st century job market The incredible work that the Tebow Group is doing to bring faith, hope, and love to the darkest parts of the world   Check out The Tebow Group’s work here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tebowgroup/posts/?feedView=all

Financial advisor Rick Figueroa gave this speech at Meta’s annual meeting of shareholders several weeks ago, defending a shareholder proposal urging Meta to be transparent with shareholders regarding preventing AI-driven child exploitation. This proposal received one of the highest levels of vote support in Bowyer Research's history - we present Rick’s excellent speech here for our listeners.  

Walker Wildmon, vice president of American Family Association, gave this speech at Apple's annual meeting of shareholders earlier this year, defending a shareholder proposal urging Apple to explain its lax policies regarding online child abuse and distribution of child pornography. This proposal received one of the highest levels of vote support in Bowyer Research's history - we present Wildmon's speech here for our listeners.

One of Bowyer Research’s clients, financial advisor David Bahnsen, recently spoke at Gilead Sciences’ annual meeting in defense of a shareholder proposal asking the company to eschew divisive DEI quotas in its supplier policies. We’re presenting the speech here for our listeners.   Learn more about The Bahnsen Group here.

In episode 108, Jerry sits down with Rich Todd, CEO and co-founder of Innovest, to talk about one of the biggest drivers in value-based investments: financial consultants. Rich & Jerry discuss the Christian philosophical rebuttal to ESG & DEI, the importance of having an investment manager with a pro-Christian culture, and what it truly means to be “equally yoked” when it comes to your investment strategy, financial influence, & proxy voting.

Recently, Jerry (as president of Bowyer Research) gave a short speech to the board of directors of BlackRock, asking the company (1) to move back to political neutrality and (2) to go back to the classical economics of shareholder capitalism as opposed to stakeholderism. We present the speech (three minutes in length) here for our listeners to listen to.

Few people are as keyed in on ESG’s “war on food” as former Nebraska State Treasurer John Murante. In Ep. 107, Murante sits down with Jerry to discuss how corporate activism is leaning heavily into anti-agriculture sentiment, how utopian visions of animal welfare create dystopia in reality, and how fiduciary duty gets applied to everything from carbon emissions to crypto investments. Read John’s piece at NRO here: https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/11/esg-investing-hurts-the-poor-and-empowers-tyrants/

In Ep. 106, Jerry sits down with Missouri Treasurer Vivek Malek to discuss the threat of China, the ongoing battle with Vanguard’s self-perpetuating autocracy, and the ‘Three-P’ approach: protecting taxpayers’ dollars, providing opportunities, and promoting the promise of America.

In. Ep. 105, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research sits down for a conversation with Dr. Paul Mueller, senior fellow at the American Institute for Economic Research (AIER). Join us for an in-depth discussion of a Protestant approach to economics, how ESG agendas advance elitist ideology, and how G.K. Chesterton can fix our social media problems. Check out Dr. Mueller’s work at AIER here: https://aier.org/people/paul-mueller/

In Ep. 104, Jerry sits down with Tim Schwarzenberger, CFA, of Inspire Investing. The next installment of our miniseries on a Catholic response to ESG explores how Christian investors can apply faith and prudential judgment to today’s complex investment landscape. They dive into the levels of Church teaching authority, discuss why reclaiming shareholder voice through proxy voting is so important, and examine how DEI and ESG frameworks often conflict with authentic Christian moral principles. Whether Catholic or broadly Christian, this conversation offers practical insights for investing faithfully and intentionally in a world of competing values. Inspire: www.inspireinvesting.com Follow Tim: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timschwarzenbergercfa/

In Ep. 103, Jerry sits down with Jonathan Berry, managing partner at Boyden Gray PLLC, in the next episode of our miniseries on a Catholic response to ESG. Join us for a discussion ranging from subsidiarity to diversity: we cover the historical roots of ESG & DEI ideology, the 'agency problem' and how ESG casts light on it, and the way that ESG often mirrors (and perverts) religious ways of thinking.

In Ep. 102, Isaac from Bowyer Research sits down with Wade Myers, general partner at Eagle Venture Fund, and John de la Chapelle, COO at TruePathVision. Join us for a fantastic discussion on how Eagle is changing the game on impact investing, how TruePathVision is combating human trafficking in the hotel industry, and why Christians should embrace the growth of AI.   Eagle Venture Fund: https://www.eagleventurefund.com/ TruePathVision: https://truepathvision.com/

Do sustainability initiatives actually fix the problems they claim to solve? In Ep. 101, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research sits down with Christian Britschgi of Reason Magazine to discuss how Starbucks' 2018 decision to nix plastic straws in the name of 'sustainability' ended up being far more complicated than anticipated, and what corporate activists often miss in their crusades against plastic use. Link to Christian's original piece here: Starbucks Bans Plastic Straws, Winds Up Using More Plastic

In Ep. 100, Jerry sits down with Dr. Andrew Abela, dean of the Busch School of Business at the Catholic University of America, for a discussion on how cardinal virtues drive good business and how businesses can cultivate true virtue in employees. Jerry & Dean Abela also discuss stewardship (and how ESG is not the answer), and how concepts like private property rights are indispensable to a free and responsible society. Check out Dean Abela's book Superhabitshere.

In Ep. 99, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research speaks with David Everitt, CEO of GameSafe, an AI start-up combating the way predators groom children via online gaming portals. From Microsoft to Roblox, online gaming is a hotbed for child abuse - and the private sector is working hard to generate solutions like GameSafe. NOTE: This episode contains descriptions of online child predation. Check out GameSafe here.

In Ep. 98, Dr. Samuel Gregg kicks off our series on Catholicism and ESG. He & Jerry discuss what a Catholic doctrine of the human person has to say about our economic vision, the moral response to ‘stakeholder capitalism,’ and why God’s command to stewardship & dominion doesn’t mean buying into false narratives about fossil fuels & environmental hysteria.  Dr. Gregg is the Friedrich Hayek Chair in Economics and Economic History at the American Institute for Economic Research. Read more here.

In Ep. 97, Jerry & Utah treasurer Marlo Oaks discuss the historical & political state of Europe’s anti-fossil fuel mandates, how ESG mandates on American companies hurt American employees, and a powerful legal strategy by which the Trump administration can push back against European regulators. Also, why it’s premature to take ‘victory laps’ against ESG & DEI. Read Treasurer Oaks’ op-ed for RCP here: https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2025/02/27/collusion_coercion_and_the_eus_corporate_sustainability_directives_1094273.html

Why are companies like Apple struggling to combat the spread of child porn in their networks? In Ep. 96, Isaac Willour (Bowyer Research) sits down with Richard Pursey, founder of cyber security company SafeToNet, to discuss why companies are often unwilling (not unable) to prevent child exploitation, the importance of the private sector in fighting human trafficking and abuse, and Richard's innovative new technology HarmBlock that's changing the game when it comes to keeping kids safe online. Learn more about Richard & Sharon's company here.

In Ep. 95, Jerry sits down with Trevor Lewis, an economic analyst who previously worked at the Buckeye Institute, to discuss how anti-fossil fuel policies, from nitrogen fertilizer to net-zero emissions requirements, inevitably hurt the agriculture sector and in turn American consumers. Jerry & Trevor also discuss the details of sow housing practices, the economics of oat milk pricing, and the practical realities of feeding 9 billion people.  Read Lewis’ report, published with the Buckeye Institute, here: https://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/library/docLib/2024-02-07-Net-Zero-Climate-Control-Policies-Will-Fail-the-Farm-policy-report.pdf

In Ep. 94, Bowyer Research’s Isaac Willour sits down with Dustin DeVito, director of corporate research at the 1792 Exchange, to discuss the Human Rights Campaign, one of the most notorious organizations pushing corporate bias on companies. Also discussed, the HRC’s Corporate Equality Index, a major pressure point for companies stepping back towards politically neutrality. Follow Dustin & the 1792 Exchange on X: @DustinDeVito@1792Exchange

Few citizens understand how much the toxic alphabet soup of political ideologies such as ESG, DEI and CRT has burst out of academia into government and even financial markets. The first line of defense against this has been the states, particularly the formerly somewhat mundane offices such as Treasurer, Auditor General, Comptroller, Commissioner of Revenue, CFO. Woke politics in investing was a major theme in North Carolina's Treasurer election this year, and the people resoundingly chose Brad Briner to go into office and continue the task initiated by his predecessor Dale Folwell of cleaning ESG and DEI out of consideration in investment decisions. In Ep. 93, Briner joined Jerry on this episode to talk about that battle as well as the battle for federalism, to stop the federal government from forcing N.C. to finance sex change treatments in its already overloaded state health care program. Briner also talks about going into office to reduce its power and the business case against green energy mandates. Briner makes the case against the intrusion of both left wing and right wing politics into finance.

In Ep. 92, Bowyer Research analyst Isaac Willour sits down with filmmaker, producer, and activist Robby Starbuck. We discuss Robby's latest victory at Walmart, the fate of discriminatory DEI programs in the next 4 years of Republican governance, and what the future holds for getting corporate America out of politics and back to business.

The most respected class of elected officials in America hold titles such as Treasurer, Auditor General, Comptroller, or Commissioner of Revenue. These are financial watchdogs with their eyes on the details. Worker bees. On the other hand, Congress often polls as one of the least trusted political institutions. One reason? By and large, states balance their budgets and Congress… well, doesn’t. That's why we spoke with Indiana Comptroller Elise Nieshalla in Ep. 91, who chairs the National Debt Crisis Task Force for the prestigious State Financial Officers Foundation. This group sent a letter (National-Debt-Letter.pdf) to Congress urging its members to deal immediately with exploding debt levels which could potentially trigger a debt crisis and, in its wake, a geopolitical crisis created by American decline.

With 45 billion dollars under advisement, Innovest is one of the largest commercial Christian financial consultants in the marketplace. In Ep. 90, CEO and co-founder Rich Todd joined Jerry to talk about the evils of ESG, the way that Christians' money has been weaponized against them, and why it is imperative to have aligned companies helping Christian institutions with their portfolio construction. Financial consultants are different from financial advisors and asset managers in that financial consultants tend to work with ultra-high-net-worth individuals and with institutions. Their function is not generally to manage money but rather to work in the institutional space to help large investors decide who should manage their money. Todd talks about the powerful pressure towards the left and towards secularism in the finance industry. and how ESG & DEI have been the levers used to apply that pressure. Christians, including large Christian institutions, have naively entrusted their values decisions and their voices to people who despise everything they stand for. Todd also emphasizes that faith-alignment does not have to come at the cost of professional excellence or market returns.

In Ep. 89, Dean Andrew Abela, of the Busch School of Business at Catholic University of America, talks with Jerry about his new book, Superhabits. Abela describes the difference between ESG/DEI and other forms of virtue signaling which are forms of pseudo-morality. Abela also explains why he used the language of a self-help book to communicate ancient truths about virtue. instead of using older language. Abela goes on to describe ways in which his book and the corresponding app could be used not just for personal development. but also on an enterprise-wide scale to help businesses create a corporate culture rich in Superhabits. 

In Ep. 88, Dr. OJ Oleka, new CEO of the State Financial Officers Foundation, sits down with Jerry to discuss the next phase of the battle for free markets, the role state fiduciaries play in protecting retirees and taxpayers, the need for a meritocracy, and how to go on offense against entrenched ESG/DEI interests.

The folks from the Life:Powered initiative at the Texas Public Policy Foundation leveraged public disclosure rules to find out how state pension plans are voting at the annual meetings of the companies they own shares in. The results were pretty shocking. From 2019 to 2023, many red states, some with politicians who have publicly attacked ESG investing, are voting to the left of BlackRock. In Ep. 87, Brent Bennett, policy director of Life:Powered, joined Jerry to talk about this important new research, and why states which don't want to continue to vote with their shares for ESG ideology and "energy discrimination" don't need to any longer. Here's the report, see if your state is on it and if it is, send it to your legislator, Treasurer and state Auditor. How State Pensions Unwittingly Push ESG Goals Through Proxy Votes | Life:Powered (lifepowered.org)

In Ep. 86, Dale Folwell, the outgoing (in both senses of the word) Treasurer of North Carolina talked to Jerry about his case before the Supreme Court to overturn a lower court case mandating that the state health plan pay for sexual transition treatments, including millions of dollars worth of surgical procedures. Folwell also talks about the true heroes of Hurricane Helene: the mountain people and local volunteer firefighters which were first at the scene. Finally, Folwell talks about the upcoming N.C. governor's race in which the scandal-ridden Republican candidate, Mark Robinson, is likely facing defeat, pointing out that Republicans need to stop choosing candidates based on who they hate rather than their ability to solve problems. 

The Treasurer of the state of Louisiana, Dr. John Fleming, joined Jerry to talk about why he opposed approval for Bank of America for a business contract due to the companies debanking of Indigenous Advance, a ministry to Ugandan Orphans and Widows. Treasurer Fleming talks about how the left has been successful in pressuring companies to a politicized and anti-Christian pattern of behavior. Dr. Fleming also talks about the corporate governance battle of the year, the attempt by activists and blue state pensions to attack the board of Exxon. Fleming talks about how to balance the need to do business in the world and the need for large financial entities with the desire not to pay businesses which then turn around and hurt the economy of a state and attack the faith of many of its citizens.

How can Christians build support networks in an arena where employees of faith feel increasingly unwelcome to be religious in the workplace? Mark Whitacre, executive director of Coca-Cola's t-factor initiative, joins Jerry to discuss forming Christian employee resource groups, responding to common objections, and what the future looks like for religious employees.

Former Texas senator Phil Gramm joins Bowyer Research's Isaac Willour on Meeting of Minds for a wide-ranging discussion of AI, defending free market ideals in our current political moment, and the medieval/feudal roots of the modern ESG movement.

Veteran financial journalist Charles Gasparino joins Meeting of Minds to discuss his recent book "Go Woke, Go Broke: The Inside Story of the Radicalization of Corporate America." He and host Jerry Bowyer discuss the extent of corporate politicization, from Disney's corporate strategies to Goldman Sachs meltdowns over Chick-fil-A, as well as the future of combatting ESG activism.

Which companies have been targeted by anti-Israel activists since October 7th? In Ep. 81, Isaac talks with Ron & Vanessa of the Zachor Legal Institute to discuss anti-Israel activism, boycotts, and the intersection between ESG and the BDS movement.