This podcast is a dramatization of fictionalized events that contains culturally insensitive language and violence. A stalemate has developed her in Los Angeles between the police and a mob of armed and protesters. This, of course, all happening in the final moments of Gerald Hayes online trial. Any shot, let's get it. We'll get right back at Colleen. From where we're standing, we can see everything's getting dicey behind you there, You and your team stay safe. Thank you. Yes, I don't know exactly how to describe it, Kate. Colleen Sanders recounts it was basically just a ring of armed protesters surrounding everyone else in the middle. When you say everyone else, you mean the police, the media, first responders, and even some of the unarmed protesters. There was just absolutely nowhere for us to go. Where the hell is Patterson far geographically speaking, where were you situated when Ammon started frantically calling out for you? I was code seven, bathroom break, Curtis, Curtis you in there. We need Gerald back of the rowline. No, God, damn it. So I hustle back into the trailer and I'm calling into that barn like CRAS long range short ring anything again to pick up that sound that you just heard. Was the power coming back on. As we see the lights inside Jason's forty to percolate back to life and surveillance footage, we also noticed that Gerald and Sergeant Place are still seated on the stage in the dining room, exactly where they were before the field is solved by swat. It's here that Gerald can be seen casually you reaching into his pocket, where he then hands his phone to Sergeant Place. Make it quick, don't do nothing stupid, and keep it on the speaking Susie, It's me, Susie. Listen to me. Don't have a lot of time. I just I'm so sorry for all of it. You're not You're not just something something I needs you to do. Don't let me be remembered. Voic's on that team, you mean, it's just it just gotta control. Tell Well, Tell Webb's wife. I'm sorry to I just if they just went wrong. I just wish you, I wish I would have stopped it earlier. Kiss the baby's phone. I love you. I love you. Yeah, Sergeant Place said his goodbyes. Commander Ammond's was working on a last ditch effort to try and end things peacefully. Listen, Gerald had been avoiding us on the phones all night, so even though I ordered Patterson to get him on the line, I wasn't all that confident the other side would pick up. That's when I decided to try calling someone else that could possibly help us. I called the polycam Apps headquarters. What was the thing behind that move? I felt I needed to control the outcome of the trial. You wanted to rig the vote being I had considered this tactic earlier in the evening, but decided against it because I was worried it would potentially provoke the HT into acting even more radically and potentially raise a level of risk for Sergeant Place. But once we were confronted by this armed militia, the risk of metastasize of the entire perimeter and we were looking at a potential mass casualty event. So my best bet, I thought, would be to let this online trial thing play out, but make sure that the verdict came in not guilty. Did you get through to anyone at poly Chimp? I talked to their CEO directly. You talked to Philipico while the voting was in its final moments. I did what did he say? He cited some First Amendment free speech garbage and made some wise crack about how I was reminding him that he needs to make a fat donation of the A C l U. And get this, he had the nerve to tell me it would be unethical of him to tamper with the vote, which of course is absolute cow done, because it's not like this was a legal trial. The only reason I wanted him to fudge the numbers in the first place was to avoid people getting slaughtered. The guy I was a complete jackass. Ultimately, the call was an absolute waste of time. Hang on, we're getting some breaking news here. This just in. For the first time this evening, the up votes for not guilty have surpassed the guilty votes also known as the down votes in Gerald Hayes's Vigilante Justice trial. We're gonna go live to Colleen Sanders again, who has more on the situation. Colleen, that is correct, Ryan. As tense and dangerous as things are here on the ground, everyone seems to be keenly aware of the boat online. I have here next to me a man who has his gun aimed at the police in one hand and in his other hand. He has his cell phone out so he can keep an eye on the tally. Sir, sir, excuse me, sir, what brought you out tonight? Justice? We look up for justice. What they did to that point ain't right. We ain't gonna let them shut down on trial before it's done. Are you aware that if the boat stands as is, it appears Sergeant Place has enough votes to be pronounced innocent. And if that indeed holds, will you support Gerald Hayes releasing Sergeant Place. We'll cross that bridge when we get there. If, as you can see, Ryan, this situation here remains extremely fluid. Colleen, Ryan, go ahead, right, I just want it to illuminate your point about how fluid this entire situation is. The vote is again flipped back over to guilty. The down votes again outnumber the up votes by a few thousand as we reached the waning moments before the verdict is final. Now, look, I have to reiterate this is not a legal trial, but because of extraordinary circumstances in Los Angeles, the real life ramifications of this social media vote may prove to be every bit as real as if it were held in a government court. Colleen, you want to add something, Yes, It's just that normally in capital punishment cases you have an appellate process that can take years, decades even before someone actually gets executed. What makes this situation so extraordinary is that this vote could lead to immediate, irreparable calling calling. You're absolutely right about that. And for those of you watching at home, the clock has just struck midnight. So that's it. According to the parameters set on at gerald OG's polycam user accoun the official tally is in. No more votes will be counted. Let's listen in Sergeant Place, you got anything else that you want to say? They gotta be with us all, Jason, give me the numbers. Four million, eight thousand votes and uh, four million, one thousand, five h Now, Jesus, it's not guilty, And by a narrow margin, it appears as though Sergeant Place has been voted not guilty by the people. Not guilty. I repeat, the question remains, will Gerald honor the verdict of the people that he himself solicited and will he end the standoff? Colleen, what's the response been like outside of ja Yes, Brianna. Right after we heard the votes, Holly being spread back to Gerald, presumably from Jason Shaw. You could hear spattered cheers from the police, but for the most part, the crowd here seems extremely dissatisfied with the verdict, as you can clearly hear from the chance all around. Hold on a second, collegen, hold on, Gerald Hayes is speaking again. This is the moment. Let's hear what he has to say through this voting. Once again, America has proven that black love still don't matter for ship. Seconds after Gerald ends his live feed, the throw line phone starts to ring again. On the security cam, we see Gerald crossed into the main bar area and answer the call. Hello, Hey, it's Patterson. Detective Listen, Gee, there's still a lot of guns pointing in all kinds of directions out here. What do you say, I come on in there before something stupid happens. Yeah, I'm calling in. I'm going in. In news footage and in the surveillance video, we see Detective Patterson bolt out of the command trailer and repeatedly call out Gerald, letting me in, letting me go in. It's all good about to stake. That was a big moment. It needed to be big. I had to make a show of it. You know, because I wanted everyone with their gun drawn on our side and the other side to know that I had permission to go into the bar and that I was unarmed. So as I approached the front door to Jason's forty two, I handed Captain Flora as my service weapon. Then I lifted up my pants leg and gave him my ankle holster as well. Think it's me take about armor. Can you walk us through what we're seeing in the surveillance video, because unlike other people that went in that night, Gerald doesn't frisk you or anything. But I think by then from this point of view, was probably like, what's the point. Also, as you can see in this footage, I'm doing my best keep him at ease the whole time. I have my hands in there, you know, showing that I post no threat. But I was keeping an eye on the handgun which he was holding loosely at his side, just in case it looked like he was about to make an erratic move. Okay, So right here, I go past him at the entry and sort of mosey around the bar to get a look around. Then you can see as I walked towards the kitchen, I I sort of freeze, because that's when I spotted Nile's body for the first time. And uh, well you here, Gerald say to me, you can put your hands down down detect is this way. He walks ahead of me here, and now I'm following him towards the dining room, and as I enter, I see Jay sitting on a stool over to the right. And then I turned my head to the opposite side of the room and I see the sergeant Gerald walks towards place and I see him slide his finger over the trigger and the handgun. Now my mind is racing because I'm thinking, am I gonna have to jump him before he has a chance to shoot? But then Gerald, always full of surprises, does his thing. Sergeant Place, your body it is free to go. The way he phrased that your body is free to go. He didn't really register to me what Gerald was saying, probably because I was so hopped up in that fight or flight state of mind. But you can see it in the video here that Sergeant place knew exactly what it meant, and he sort of looks at me for confirmation, and that's when he hit me. He just released a hostage. So I give Place a reassuring no, like yeah, this is real, and help him up from the chair and start walking him out the door. And as soon as me in Sergeant placed round the corner. At that entryway, I could see Commander am And standing outside directly in front of us. But as we start to take those final steps out the bar felt like it took forever to get from the door to the commander. Sergeant Place was really leaning on me, so I was putting in work just to keep us moving forward. But the main reason was I could just feel every pair of eyes in the area was locked on us. All that scrutiny made for what felt like a very long walk. In reality, it couldn't have been more than ten, maybe twelve paces. Did you know what Amas was planning to do next? I had no idea. I think the Commander was improvising, just like I was. Sergeant Place. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney and having present, come on, Place. Come on. The Commander personally cuffed Sergeant Place and then loaded them into the back of an ambulance. But they were doing that you could see me head right back into the restaurant. Gerald was still armed, which meant he was still a threat to others and a threat to himself. You thought that he might try and hurt himself across my mind for sure. I just knew we weren't out the woods yet, and the commander knew it too. Without ever saying anything to each other, it was clear. My job was a deal with Gerald, and his job was to deal with the mess outside. And right as I re entered the restaurant, that's when I hear the Commander's voice raised up from outside. Put that thing down, Hey, hey, stand down. The commander is literally putting his hands on his officer's guns and shoving them downward. Then you hear Captain Flora's calling out behind Ammond's sort of backing him up, because you could tell it was a bit of a reluctance from some of the officers at first, because they didn't want to stand down. Heck no, But once Flora has got involved, they all fell in love. Stand down, stand down. You heard the commander, weapons down. Nobody gets Hops, We're Sergeant Hops. I was still in the trailer when I heard on the radio that the commander is looking for me, So I hustle on outside and the commander pulls me close. And now who's the guy, which meant which one of these guys has enough sway to do what he just did? But on the other side, and who was that Big Age? So I point him out in the crowd. The commander walked straight over to him, whisper something in his ear, and the next thing you see is Big Age following Commander Ammonds into the trailer. When I saw Commander Ammonds and Big Ages walking away from everyone, at first, I'm thinking where are they going? But as I saw him approaching the trailer, I caught on and sure enough, Patterson Ammonds here, Commander, I have a big h here for gerald Ge. This Big Age helloj the police commander got his man stand down. He asked me to do the same, but you know what I told him, No, no, man, I just wanted to right. But now, well you didn't, did it? Day? You know how we feel. We're riding with you no matter what whatever you say. We were all with it. You go whichever, but we don't made a pointment. I feel you whatever you said behind me. Seconds later, Big Age comes out of the command trailer, and without saying a word, he simply holds his gun in the air, calmly tucks it in his waistband. Then every armed protester does the same, and just like that, a single gesture ends the standoff outside the bar. That's what I knew it was over for real, not just because Big Age got everyone on his side and lower their weapons. It was at that moment that I looked at Gerald and for the first time I saw a disabled man, a vulnerable man, a broken man, like someone who desperately needed help. So I said to him, a gee, I'm gonna need that. In the surveillance video, we see Gerald give Detective Patterson his rifle and the pistol before asking can I say good bottom, my boy? Now? Yeah, brother, I think you should. That was mm hm hm hmm. Just give me a second, of course. Um. I got the feeling that, even though he had been in that building with Niles for hours, it was like he wasn't able to say goodbye as a father, to warn his son properly until he laid his arms down, you know, So he didn't just excuse me, Curtis, It's okay. Gerald didn't just surrender his weapons to me. He also surrendered any remaining guard he had up over his feelings, and that wasn't easy to see. So Patterson calls me over and hands me Gerald's weapons, then tells me that he wants to make good on a promise he made to Nile's mother. I didn't see any harm in it, so I radioed Sergeant Homer and had him bring her over, and then I had about six of my men enter the building as well to essentially secure the surrender. As more police began to enter the bar, Gerald can be seen crossing into the kitchen, where he climbs onto the table with Niles and curls into a fetal position, wrapping his arms around his son. This is what we hear. I'm so sorry I couldn't take you to the game. I'm soul sorry, I'm sorry. You're good. I couldn't be h I couldn't I couldn't make you proud to read. I was so proud of you, run, I was so fucking proud of you. Med As Gerald clutches his son, Michelle enters the kitchen and stands over them. She kisses Nile's head, then places her lips on Gerald's forehead as well, you know, Kate, I had I had hours to prepare myself with the reality that that the next time I saw my son it would just be his body. But what I discovered when I finally got a chance to see Niles was that I was totally unprepared to witness Gerald the way that he was. And how would you describe what you saw? Unmanned? So I chose in that moment, rather than the focus on the thing my goodbye to Niles, I decided to turn into the living to Gerald. H whatever you whispered to him that seemed to bring him back. Do you remember what you said? Chun up, nose down, rise together, And that's what he did. At the time Gerald and Michelle exit the kitchen, the police have already handcuffed Jase, but he's still in the bar with the other arresting officers. Seeing this, Gerald crosses his hands in for us up the last thing he was obligated to surrender himself. Patterson recounts, I didn't have any cuffs on me, but one of the officers nearby tossed me there's and I hooked him. Usually at this point, I'm gone, A job is done. Decision is like when to walk Gerald and Jay's out, which exit, who was doing it? All? That sort of thing normally isn't my call, but these were extraordinary circumstances, and no one wanted to make a bone head move and potentially inflame the situation again. So when the commander calls me over to the cipher of uniform cops having a little impromptu meeting, I figured that's what he wanted to discuss the details of Gerald's p Curtis, I was wondering, if do you think it would be all right if I paid my respects, if the if the men, if we the the man paid on spects, Detective, Yeah, I think that would be a good idea, sir. In the video, we see Commander Ammon straightened his collar, adjust his pants at the waist, and take four regimented steps across the room. M hm, Mr Hayes, Mrs Hayes, I'm Commander Ammond's on behalf of the entire department. I'm sorry for your loss, sir. Well. From there, the Commander can be seen entering the kitchen, where he bows his head respectfully and says a silent prayer. He then takes the pin off of his shirt and leaves it on the table next to Niles as the commander exits next to enter the kitchen as Captain Flores, he too offers a moment of silence and leaves his captain's hat on the table next to the commander's pin. By then, we had gotten word of the surrender had taken place, so we were pretty much just waiting to cover Gerald's exit. Colleen Sanders recounts me, my cameraman, and my producer hoped it would all happen out the front door, because our camera was set up in the perfect spot for that shot. But then I started seeing all these cops forming a long line that started inside the building and was stretching down the block. And I'm thinking to myself, well, that's strange, because surely they don't need that many officers to help with the arrest. So now my spider senses are tingling, and I'm looking more closely at these cops, and I noticed that every minute or so, another one of them was coming out from inside the bar, and they all just had the oddest expressions. What do they look like? Softer? More human? But them? I went in there, it was police, protesters, media, Everyone was paying homage to knowledge. You know must have seen over fifty or more items left behind by the police alone, everything from the badges, hads, pins, you name. It looked like a shrine up in there when you experienced something like that, even for somebody like me who was having a real hatred in my heart for the police for pretty much my entire life, and gets you to thank you or maybe something could come out of this. And don't get me wrong, now's died over some bullshit. But what happened that night, it was a moment. How so ship we soldier up and got ready to throw down, and I think it did something for the people. And then the grand scheme of things was the significance of that look im from the streets. So the significance of that is everything. Whether it's a bully or a game or even the police, you're gonna get trapped on over and over again unless you stand up for yourself. And to me, we stood up for real. That's what allowed us to all go to overweight at night towards peace. And I'm proud of that. Do you feel like you might have to stand up like that again? I hope not, because if we do, we're gonn have to do stand up. Getting Gerald out of the building was our final hurdle. This is the voice of Commander Emmonds. I was glad that Gerald and Michelle got to see everyone paying respects to their son, and the atmosphere around the building no longer had that inevitable feeling of doom. And of course, the last thing I wanted to do was reignite the powder keg that had just been diffused. But it wasn't until I saw a big Age in line to go see Niles that I got the idea to ask him if he would be willing to walk with me as we marched Gerald and Jay's from the building to the squad cars we had waiting outside. Why did you want Big Age to accompany you? I thought it was important for people to see Gerald in cuffs. To me, that image signified a restoration of law and order. Having Big Age make that walk with us was just a way to ensure that everyone stayed cool. Bryan, after hours of being holed up and stand off with police, Gerald Hayes, father of the now deceased eighteen year old Niles Hayes, who was brutally beaten to death by police earlier, today is in handcuffs and is being marched out of the building. And just listen to the enthusiasm of this crowd as police lead Gerald Hayes toward a squad cart. Although he's wearing restraints, Gerald Hayes just raised both in his hands in the air to acknowledge the supporters chanting his Sun's me looking back, Kate. It was just a historical night, So I have a lot of big memories. But I guess the thing that's seared into my brain more than anything else is the look on Gerald's face as the crowd cheered for him and cheered for Niles. What was the look? Bitter sweet? And then Gerald nods ever so slightly as if to say thank you, and he gets in the police car. As the car carrying Gerald hay slowly inched away from the scene, the crowd continued to mobroke Niles is naw It would be hours before the massively long line of Los Angelenos going in and out of Jas's forty two would finally dissipate. By dawn, Jason's forty two sports bar and Grill had been converted into a virtual memorial site with floral arrangements, murals, candles and other mementos that people left behind. I think it's also fair to say, inasmuch as people were paying their respects to Niles, on some level there was a sense of relief to that the collective we chose peace and love over mutual destruction, Which leads to this question. For all that happened that day, the good and the bad, and for all that has transpired in the year that has passed, has anything really changed? And maybe just as important, is something like this going to happen again? Listen to what Commander Ammon said about this. Speaking for myself, I can tell you how that day altered my perspective on things. In order for police to do our job effectively, we have to find a way to maintain or regain the moral high ground. And if we keep seating our goodwill to things like racism, misconduct, or cover ups, even we run the risk of altering the type of society we presume to have and what type of society will we end up with if we don't do this. A lot of very good one all due respect to the Commander Kate, but he's just one man, and one man's epiphany isn't going to fix anything. But I will say this, things have definitely changed in what way we've gotten worse. I mean, look at me. I got run out of the force because too many people felt that I was too sympathetic to Gerald All that Coombay a ship you saw from police officers leaving behind badges and shaking hands with gang bankers. That last at about twenty four hours, and it was right back to business as usual next thing you know, I'm hearing that a lot of my former fellow officers felt that I chose black over blue. If anybody chose black over blue that day, I would argue that it was Commander Ammond's. That's funny that he's been commended for how he handled the situation and you got vilified. Funny isn't the word I would use, But I agree seekers That's exactly why I've enjoyed talking to you so much. Truly, you are not afraid to just level with me. I was never good at lying, and that's why you're the perfect person to ask, how do we make sure that this never happens again? But he's killing an unowned black person with a brink of civil war both mm hmm prayer. Yeah, but you're not religious, You've got a better idea thought, So how can you get another beer? What one? So shall? I want to start by thanking you for inviting me to your home again, and just overall because you've been so patient with me with my questions, and I know it hasn't been easy. And I also want to say I'm a bit nervous because there's something I've been wanting to ask you. You want to know if I blame Gerald for now this is passing? Wow? Am I that transparent? Jase gave me a heads up, and I'm glad he did because I like you, Kate, and I may have felt some kind of way about it if you just asked me that question the wrong way, that's completely fair. Here's the thing. I know Gerald Tart and you couldn't convince me in a thousand years that he for one second wasn't doing what he thought was best for Niles. But that doesn't mean that I haven't imagined every single scenario where if maybe this happens, then now is is still alive, or if that happens, then maybe he's just paralyzed, but he's still here. But the truth is the thing I obsessed about more than anything is why didn't not I was just put his hands at ten and two and say to those cops yes sir, no sir, or I'm sorry sir. Why did he talk back? Why wasn't he more clever or or more charming? And then I hate myself but thinking these things, Kate, because wat should my son have to be perfectly polite or perfectly likable to survive a freaking traffic stop. And every once in a while I think, Wow, my baby touched the entire world, he and Gerald both And then for a minute or so I'm at peace, but it never lasts. I'll never really be a piece until I'm in my resting place. Mh. I want to give you something, Kate, and I think it will help you find something better than just answers to your questions. What is it? Revelation? About five months ago, I got a call from the police department and they told me to come down to the station and pick up now its belongings, which confused me at first because I had already claimed all of this stuff from the hospital. But these two things never made it with them to the hospital. They were found at the scene here. Oh, Michell, I don't I can't take these, Kate. You are telling the story of both of my men, and it's important that you get it right. I'm not giving these to you as a gift. They are something I expect you to bear and to honor. The first thing inside the envelope was niles driver's license. Apparently Sergeant Place must have dropped it on the street as the altercation began. The other item was Niles is Moehler, the same tooth that was bludgeoned out of his mouth by Officer Webb's knee. So there I was sitting across from Michelle her Son's government, I d and dental remains in the palm of my hand, and all of a sudden I felt an unbearable shame come over me. It became painfully obvious to me that no amount of analytical thinking, information parsing, or interviewing would ever get me to understand, because this isn't something you can get by thinking. It's something you have to feel. And just like Michelle intended, like a revelation, this is what came to me as I sat there, dumbfounded. In all this time, I hadn't taken less loss as if he was my own. And I think Michelle knew that, and I think Jason knew that too. The fact of the matter is Niles and Gerald, until that very moment, where a story to me. But a lot of the people who supported Gerald's child didn't look at Niles and Gerald as a story. They didn't see themselves as something apart from their own lives. They were watching their people, they were watching family, they were watching themselves. Holding the last solid remnant of what was once Niles is vibrant life in the palm of my hand. Put me in a place that previously I just wasn't able to get to. And the best way I can describe that feeling is that it was overwhelming. It was sorrowful, angry, and I just had an impulse to scream. Somebody has to do something, somebody has to keep this type of thing from ever happening again. That's exactly what Gerrold did. He did something, and a lot of people needed that, And I understand that now. And look, there was no version of me that would ever have voted in the trial. Call me old fashioned, naive, or even privileged, but I still believe in the rule of law. So when I left Michelle's place, I knew I needed to examine myself just as hard as I spent the last year looking at Gerald Hayes. And Originally I had planned for my interview with Michelle to be the last one for this project, but I realized that I needed one more sit down to fix a wrong that I committed along the way, Because even though Jason I had established a really good rapport after getting off to a rocky start, I now see that some of my questions around guilt and culpability may have been justifiable from an investigative standpoint, but it no longer sat well with me from a human point of view, and I needed to correct that. This time, our meet up was at a restaurant that I suggested in Santa Monica, one that overlooks the peer. Jason was well enough to leave a sober living apartment again, so I figured we'd give it a try. As I waited for him to arrive, I thought about all the people whose lives were intimately touched by the day Niles was killed. I thought about the people that subsequently then let me into their homes, there, workplaces, and in varying degrees, into their hearts and minds. Then I thought about Sergeant Place, who as of today, is still waiting on the grand jury to decide whether or not he will be charged for niles His death, and has repeatedly refused to interview for this project, citing pending the litigation. I also thought about Officer Webb and how his last act on this planet, before being shot by his own partner, was beating an innocent man to death for no reason at all, and how that same no reason at all justified the killing of Philando Castile to mere Rice, Eric Gardner, Michael Brown, Lacwon McDonald, Freddie Gray Trayvon Martin, George Floyd, Sandra Bland, and so many more. But mostly as I sat there, I thought about Gerald Gerald Hayes, the man who I had spent the better part of a year either trying to understand or empathize with, and all too often prosecute. And regardless of how many times I tried to get him to take a visit from me while he waits in the County jail for his trial, in which he has been indicted on fourteen counts, including kidnapping and the murder of his own son, Gerald's attorney always relays the same message my client has said all that he wishes to say on the matter. Still deep in thought, I pondered these things when I hear my name, Okay, you are right, and I look up, almost as if coming out of a deep slumber, and before me I see a very healthy looking Jay Shaw standing across the table. As I take him in, I wonder if Jace looks better than ever because he's winning his battle with addiction, or is it because he's lost a few pounds, Or maybe it's because he recently found out that the d A has dropped all charges against him. I see you got your recording right. You must got a lot of questions to think, because you usually don't break it out of the We've already smoked questions today. Actually, this time it's it's here to record my voice, if you're up for it. I just want you to give Gerald a message for me. But before I do that, I want to apologize to you. Jas. I guess in all of my poking and plotting and looking for someone to blame and all of this, I let you blame yourself and I did worse than that. I push you to blame yourself. Hi, for what it's worth. I just I hope if I am ever, in a real bind. I have the type of friend who was stand up for me like you did for Gerald. That day, Jase gives me a big bear hug that I wasn't quite expecting, but it was one that I think we both very much needed, and for the next few minutes we both cried in the middle of the restaurant. I think the waiter came over twice to ask us if we needed anything, but really she was suggesting that we stopped disturbing the other customers. And I wish I could tell you exactly what made me so emotional, One because and not much of a crier, and two because I wasn't crying about anything in particular. My guess is that it was just an all out emotional purge that needed to happen as I concluded this year long journey where I had basically been groundhog s daying Niles is death over and over. Here's the message I recorded for Gerald. Okay, here goes mm hmm. Hello Gerald. My name is Kate Bell, and I've spent the last twelve months of my professional life trying to come to terms with one thing, how I should view you, and in all of my reporting and logical thinking, I hope to come up with the clear picture of Gerald Hayes the man. Is he a hero or a villain? To blame or not to blame? But the deeper I stepped into your world, the foggy are the lines between right and wrong? God for me, and really it's it's more than that, because it also became harder for me to separate the line between Kate Bell the journalist and Kate the person. At the start of this project, my instinct was telling me that beyond Officer Webb and Sergeant Places attack on your son, there was a third accomplice responsible for niles of death. And for a long time I pegged you there's even evidence to support that claim, But I want you to know that in the court of Kate Bell, I deemed that evidence to be inadmissible. Your son was murdered by the very people who are supposed to be our protectors, and getting on the other side of that emotional singularity is something that I'm just ashamed to say has taken me too long to arrive at. Thankfully, Michelle helped me understand that that's all I really needed to know in the first place. But my instinct was right, there was a third accomplice, one that has been hiding in plain sight all along. But it's it's not one person, it's all of us. It's me, and it's countless others who have been camouflaging ourselves with silence, who have been unable or unwilling to understand that throughout this despicable legacy of cases where we see unarmed black men and boys and women suffer the same fate at the hands of police, how that not only destroys lives, but it also destroys every bit of moral authority that the police have in this country. And even more, it's eroding the soul of our nation. Our silence and our ignorance has been and continues to be our complicity. Our silence and our ignorance is our culpability, and we're guilty. To me, that's what your trial was about, exposing us as that third assailant. And as long as the savage ritual of contempt for black lives at the hands of police is allowed to find safe harbor in precincts and prosecutors offices and court rooms, then every one of us is at risk because the next time we may not be so lucky. We may not be able to pull back from the brink of mutual destruction, and you showed us that. But as grim as that may be, I also don't despair because we are not doomed to repeat this cycle over and over. And the reason I know that is because I found my hero and all of this. Eles Gerald, Your son was so unbelievably precious, and because of you, the world will never forget him or what he stood for. And for that, I thank you, and I salute you, and I pray that we can live up to his memory and his words. Chin Up, Noise Down, Rise Together, Hashtag Matter, starring Amen Joseph as Gerald Hayes, Jennifer Christopher as Kate Bell, Steve Harris as Jace Shaw Hayley, Joel Osmond as Sergeant Place, Pooch Hall as Martin Simms, and Snoop Dogg as Big H. Additional performances by Nile Bullock as Nile's Hayes, Serina Pouncy as Michelle Hayes, Alfonso Faustino as Sergeant Hobbs, John Lacy as Commander Emmonds, Alex Kihano as Captain Flores, Monte Russell as Detective Patterson, and Stephen Robert Wallenberg as Detective Halmer, with appearances by Mercy Malick, Ryan Smith, Amir Tali, Alex Vaughan, Colin Ward, and Orvald Williams. Hashtag Matter was written and directed by Dylan C. Brown. Our executive producers are Sandy Bailey, Lauren Holman, Dylan Brown, Winnie Kemp, and Amen Joseph. Audio designed by Wolf at the Door, Sound design and mix by Josh Falcon, music by Jonathan Sanford, edited by Narin Polling and our sound director in Alexander Kemp. Produced by Toby Lawless and Lucy Jones. Casting by Lawless Casting. Hashtag Matter is a production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio and an association with Wolf at the Door. From more podcasts from shot Land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio, Apple Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,

This podcast is a dramatization of fictionalized events that contains culturally insensitive language and violence. A stalemate has developed her in Los Angeles between the police and a mob of armed and protesters. This, of course, all happening in the final moments of Gerald Hayes online trial. Any shot, let's get it. We'll get right back at Colleen. From where we're standing, we can see everything's getting dicey behind you there, You and your team stay safe. Thank you. Yes, I don't know exactly how to describe it, Kate. Colleen Sanders recounts it was basically just a ring of armed protesters surrounding everyone else in the middle. When you say everyone else, you mean the police, the media, first responders, and even some of the unarmed protesters. There was just absolutely nowhere for us to go. Where the hell is Patterson far geographically speaking, where were you situated when Ammon started frantically calling out for you? I was code seven, bathroom break, Curtis, Curtis you in there. We need Gerald back of the rowline. No, God, damn it. So I hustle back into the trailer and I'm calling into that barn like CRAS long range short ring anything again to pick up that sound that you just heard. Was the power coming back on. As we see the lights inside Jason's forty to percolate back to life and surveillance footage, we also noticed that Gerald and Sergeant Place are still seated on the stage in the dining room, exactly where they were before the field is solved by swat. It's here that Gerald can be seen casually you reaching into his pocket, where he then hands his phone to Sergeant Place. Make it quick, don't do nothing stupid, and keep it on the speaking Susie, It's me, Susie. Listen to me. Don't have a lot of time. I just I'm so sorry for all of it. You're not You're not just something something I needs you to do. Don't let me be remembered. Voic's on that team, you mean, it's just it just gotta control. Tell Well, Tell Webb's wife. I'm sorry to I just if they just went wrong. I just wish you, I wish I would have stopped it earlier. Kiss the baby's phone. I love you. I love you. Yeah, Sergeant Place said his goodbyes. Commander Ammond's was working on a last ditch effort to try and end things peacefully. Listen, Gerald had been avoiding us on the phones all night, so even though I ordered Patterson to get him on the line, I wasn't all that confident the other side would pick up. That's when I decided to try calling someone else that could possibly help us. I called the polycam Apps headquarters. What was the thing behind that move? I felt I needed to control the outcome of the trial. You wanted to rig the vote being I had considered this tactic earlier in the evening, but decided against it because I was worried it would potentially provoke the HT into acting even more radically and potentially raise a level of risk for Sergeant Place. But once we were confronted by this armed militia, the risk of metastasize of the entire perimeter and we were looking at a potential mass casualty event. So my best bet, I thought, would be to let this online trial thing play out, but make sure that the verdict came in not guilty. Did you get through to anyone at poly Chimp? I talked to their CEO directly. You talked to Philipico while the voting was in its final moments. I did what did he say? He cited some First Amendment free speech garbage and made some wise crack about how I was reminding him that he needs to make a fat donation of the A C l U. And get this, he had the nerve to tell me it would be unethical of him to tamper with the vote, which of course is absolute cow done, because it's not like this was a legal trial. The only reason I wanted him to fudge the numbers in the first place was to avoid people getting slaughtered. The guy I was a complete jackass. Ultimately, the call was an absolute waste of time. Hang on, we're getting some breaking news here. This just in. For the first time this evening, the up votes for not guilty have surpassed the guilty votes also known as the down votes in Gerald Hayes's Vigilante Justice trial. We're gonna go live to Colleen Sanders again, who has more on the situation. Colleen, that is correct, Ryan. As tense and dangerous as things are here on the ground, everyone seems to be keenly aware of the boat online. I have here next to me a man who has his gun aimed at the police in one hand and in his other hand. He has his cell phone out so he can keep an eye on the tally. Sir, sir, excuse me, sir, what brought you out tonight? Justice? We look up for justice. What they did to that point ain't right. We ain't gonna let them shut down on trial before it's done. Are you aware that if the boat stands as is, it appears Sergeant Place has enough votes to be pronounced innocent. And if that indeed holds, will you support Gerald Hayes releasing Sergeant Place. We'll cross that bridge when we get there. If, as you can see, Ryan, this situation here remains extremely fluid. Colleen, Ryan, go ahead, right, I just want it to illuminate your point about how fluid this entire situation is. The vote is again flipped back over to guilty. The down votes again outnumber the up votes by a few thousand as we reached the waning moments before the verdict is final. Now, look, I have to reiterate this is not a legal trial, but because of extraordinary circumstances in Los Angeles, the real life ramifications of this social media vote may prove to be every bit as real as if it were held in a government court. Colleen, you want to add something, Yes, It's just that normally in capital punishment cases you have an appellate process that can take years, decades even before someone actually gets executed. What makes this situation so extraordinary is that this vote could lead to immediate, irreparable calling calling. You're absolutely right about that. And for those of you watching at home, the clock has just struck midnight. So that's it. According to the parameters set on at gerald OG's polycam user accoun the official tally is in. No more votes will be counted. Let's listen in Sergeant Place, you got anything else that you want to say? They gotta be with us all, Jason, give me the numbers. Four million, eight thousand votes and uh, four million, one thousand, five h Now, Jesus, it's not guilty, And by a narrow margin, it appears as though Sergeant Place has been voted not guilty by the people. Not guilty. I repeat, the question remains, will Gerald honor the verdict of the people that he himself solicited and will he end the standoff? Colleen, what's the response been like outside of ja Yes, Brianna. Right after we heard the votes, Holly being spread back to Gerald, presumably from Jason Shaw. You could hear spattered cheers from the police, but for the most part, the crowd here seems extremely dissatisfied with the verdict, as you can clearly hear from the chance all around. Hold on a second, collegen, hold on, Gerald Hayes is speaking again. This is the moment. Let's hear what he has to say through this voting. Once again, America has proven that black love still don't matter for ship. Seconds after Gerald ends his live feed, the throw line phone starts to ring again. On the security cam, we see Gerald crossed into the main bar area and answer the call. Hello, Hey, it's Patterson. Detective Listen, Gee, there's still a lot of guns pointing in all kinds of directions out here. What do you say, I come on in there before something stupid happens. Yeah, I'm calling in. I'm going in. In news footage and in the surveillance video, we see Detective Patterson bolt out of the command trailer and repeatedly call out Gerald, letting me in, letting me go in. It's all good about to stake. That was a big moment. It needed to be big. I had to make a show of it. You know, because I wanted everyone with their gun drawn on our side and the other side to know that I had permission to go into the bar and that I was unarmed. So as I approached the front door to Jason's forty two, I handed Captain Flora as my service weapon. Then I lifted up my pants leg and gave him my ankle holster as well. Think it's me take about armor. Can you walk us through what we're seeing in the surveillance video, because unlike other people that went in that night, Gerald doesn't frisk you or anything. But I think by then from this point of view, was probably like, what's the point. Also, as you can see in this footage, I'm doing my best keep him at ease the whole time. I have my hands in there, you know, showing that I post no threat. But I was keeping an eye on the handgun which he was holding loosely at his side, just in case it looked like he was about to make an erratic move. Okay, So right here, I go past him at the entry and sort of mosey around the bar to get a look around. Then you can see as I walked towards the kitchen, I I sort of freeze, because that's when I spotted Nile's body for the first time. And uh, well you here, Gerald say to me, you can put your hands down down detect is this way. He walks ahead of me here, and now I'm following him towards the dining room, and as I enter, I see Jay sitting on a stool over to the right. And then I turned my head to the opposite side of the room and I see the sergeant Gerald walks towards place and I see him slide his finger over the trigger and the handgun. Now my mind is racing because I'm thinking, am I gonna have to jump him before he has a chance to shoot? But then Gerald, always full of surprises, does his thing. Sergeant Place, your body it is free to go. The way he phrased that your body is free to go. He didn't really register to me what Gerald was saying, probably because I was so hopped up in that fight or flight state of mind. But you can see it in the video here that Sergeant place knew exactly what it meant, and he sort of looks at me for confirmation, and that's when he hit me. He just released a hostage. So I give Place a reassuring no, like yeah, this is real, and help him up from the chair and start walking him out the door. And as soon as me in Sergeant placed round the corner. At that entryway, I could see Commander am And standing outside directly in front of us. But as we start to take those final steps out the bar felt like it took forever to get from the door to the commander. Sergeant Place was really leaning on me, so I was putting in work just to keep us moving forward. But the main reason was I could just feel every pair of eyes in the area was locked on us. All that scrutiny made for what felt like a very long walk. In reality, it couldn't have been more than ten, maybe twelve paces. Did you know what Amas was planning to do next? I had no idea. I think the Commander was improvising, just like I was. Sergeant Place. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney and having present, come on, Place. Come on. The Commander personally cuffed Sergeant Place and then loaded them into the back of an ambulance. But they were doing that you could see me head right back into the restaurant. Gerald was still armed, which meant he was still a threat to others and a threat to himself. You thought that he might try and hurt himself across my mind for sure. I just knew we weren't out the woods yet, and the commander knew it too. Without ever saying anything to each other, it was clear. My job was a deal with Gerald, and his job was to deal with the mess outside. And right as I re entered the restaurant, that's when I hear the Commander's voice raised up from outside. Put that thing down, Hey, hey, stand down. The commander is literally putting his hands on his officer's guns and shoving them downward. Then you hear Captain Flora's calling out behind Ammond's sort of backing him up, because you could tell it was a bit of a reluctance from some of the officers at first, because they didn't want to stand down. Heck no, But once Flora has got involved, they all fell in love. Stand down, stand down. You heard the commander, weapons down. Nobody gets Hops, We're Sergeant Hops. I was still in the trailer when I heard on the radio that the commander is looking for me, So I hustle on outside and the commander pulls me close. And now who's the guy, which meant which one of these guys has enough sway to do what he just did? But on the other side, and who was that Big Age? So I point him out in the crowd. The commander walked straight over to him, whisper something in his ear, and the next thing you see is Big Age following Commander Ammonds into the trailer. When I saw Commander Ammonds and Big Ages walking away from everyone, at first, I'm thinking where are they going? But as I saw him approaching the trailer, I caught on and sure enough, Patterson Ammonds here, Commander, I have a big h here for gerald Ge. This Big Age helloj the police commander got his man stand down. He asked me to do the same, but you know what I told him, No, no, man, I just wanted to right. But now, well you didn't, did it? Day? You know how we feel. We're riding with you no matter what whatever you say. We were all with it. You go whichever, but we don't made a pointment. I feel you whatever you said behind me. Seconds later, Big Age comes out of the command trailer, and without saying a word, he simply holds his gun in the air, calmly tucks it in his waistband. Then every armed protester does the same, and just like that, a single gesture ends the standoff outside the bar. That's what I knew it was over for real, not just because Big Age got everyone on his side and lower their weapons. It was at that moment that I looked at Gerald and for the first time I saw a disabled man, a vulnerable man, a broken man, like someone who desperately needed help. So I said to him, a gee, I'm gonna need that. In the surveillance video, we see Gerald give Detective Patterson his rifle and the pistol before asking can I say good bottom, my boy? Now? Yeah, brother, I think you should. That was mm hm hm hmm. Just give me a second, of course. Um. I got the feeling that, even though he had been in that building with Niles for hours, it was like he wasn't able to say goodbye as a father, to warn his son properly until he laid his arms down, you know, So he didn't just excuse me, Curtis, It's okay. Gerald didn't just surrender his weapons to me. He also surrendered any remaining guard he had up over his feelings, and that wasn't easy to see. So Patterson calls me over and hands me Gerald's weapons, then tells me that he wants to make good on a promise he made to Nile's mother. I didn't see any harm in it, so I radioed Sergeant Homer and had him bring her over, and then I had about six of my men enter the building as well to essentially secure the surrender. As more police began to enter the bar, Gerald can be seen crossing into the kitchen, where he climbs onto the table with Niles and curls into a fetal position, wrapping his arms around his son. This is what we hear. I'm so sorry I couldn't take you to the game. I'm soul sorry, I'm sorry. You're good. I couldn't be h I couldn't I couldn't make you proud to read. I was so proud of you, run, I was so fucking proud of you. Med As Gerald clutches his son, Michelle enters the kitchen and stands over them. She kisses Nile's head, then places her lips on Gerald's forehead as well, you know, Kate, I had I had hours to prepare myself with the reality that that the next time I saw my son it would just be his body. But what I discovered when I finally got a chance to see Niles was that I was totally unprepared to witness Gerald the way that he was. And how would you describe what you saw? Unmanned? So I chose in that moment, rather than the focus on the thing my goodbye to Niles, I decided to turn into the living to Gerald. H whatever you whispered to him that seemed to bring him back. Do you remember what you said? Chun up, nose down, rise together, And that's what he did. At the time Gerald and Michelle exit the kitchen, the police have already handcuffed Jase, but he's still in the bar with the other arresting officers. Seeing this, Gerald crosses his hands in for us up the last thing he was obligated to surrender himself. Patterson recounts, I didn't have any cuffs on me, but one of the officers nearby tossed me there's and I hooked him. Usually at this point, I'm gone, A job is done. Decision is like when to walk Gerald and Jay's out, which exit, who was doing it? All? That sort of thing normally isn't my call, but these were extraordinary circumstances, and no one wanted to make a bone head move and potentially inflame the situation again. So when the commander calls me over to the cipher of uniform cops having a little impromptu meeting, I figured that's what he wanted to discuss the details of Gerald's p Curtis, I was wondering, if do you think it would be all right if I paid my respects, if the if the men, if we the the man paid on spects, Detective, Yeah, I think that would be a good idea, sir. In the video, we see Commander Ammon straightened his collar, adjust his pants at the waist, and take four regimented steps across the room. M hm, Mr Hayes, Mrs Hayes, I'm Commander Ammond's on behalf of the entire department. I'm sorry for your loss, sir. Well. From there, the Commander can be seen entering the kitchen, where he bows his head respectfully and says a silent prayer. He then takes the pin off of his shirt and leaves it on the table next to Niles as the commander exits next to enter the kitchen as Captain Flores, he too offers a moment of silence and leaves his captain's hat on the table next to the commander's pin. By then, we had gotten word of the surrender had taken place, so we were pretty much just waiting to cover Gerald's exit. Colleen Sanders recounts me, my cameraman, and my producer hoped it would all happen out the front door, because our camera was set up in the perfect spot for that shot. But then I started seeing all these cops forming a long line that started inside the building and was stretching down the block. And I'm thinking to myself, well, that's strange, because surely they don't need that many officers to help with the arrest. So now my spider senses are tingling, and I'm looking more closely at these cops, and I noticed that every minute or so, another one of them was coming out from inside the bar, and they all just had the oddest expressions. What do they look like? Softer? More human? But them? I went in there, it was police, protesters, media, Everyone was paying homage to knowledge. You know must have seen over fifty or more items left behind by the police alone, everything from the badges, hads, pins, you name. It looked like a shrine up in there when you experienced something like that, even for somebody like me who was having a real hatred in my heart for the police for pretty much my entire life, and gets you to thank you or maybe something could come out of this. And don't get me wrong, now's died over some bullshit. But what happened that night, it was a moment. How so ship we soldier up and got ready to throw down, and I think it did something for the people. And then the grand scheme of things was the significance of that look im from the streets. So the significance of that is everything. Whether it's a bully or a game or even the police, you're gonna get trapped on over and over again unless you stand up for yourself. And to me, we stood up for real. That's what allowed us to all go to overweight at night towards peace. And I'm proud of that. Do you feel like you might have to stand up like that again? I hope not, because if we do, we're gonn have to do stand up. Getting Gerald out of the building was our final hurdle. This is the voice of Commander Emmonds. I was glad that Gerald and Michelle got to see everyone paying respects to their son, and the atmosphere around the building no longer had that inevitable feeling of doom. And of course, the last thing I wanted to do was reignite the powder keg that had just been diffused. But it wasn't until I saw a big Age in line to go see Niles that I got the idea to ask him if he would be willing to walk with me as we marched Gerald and Jay's from the building to the squad cars we had waiting outside. Why did you want Big Age to accompany you? I thought it was important for people to see Gerald in cuffs. To me, that image signified a restoration of law and order. Having Big Age make that walk with us was just a way to ensure that everyone stayed cool. Bryan, after hours of being holed up and stand off with police, Gerald Hayes, father of the now deceased eighteen year old Niles Hayes, who was brutally beaten to death by police earlier, today is in handcuffs and is being marched out of the building. And just listen to the enthusiasm of this crowd as police lead Gerald Hayes toward a squad cart. Although he's wearing restraints, Gerald Hayes just raised both in his hands in the air to acknowledge the supporters chanting his Sun's me looking back, Kate. It was just a historical night, So I have a lot of big memories. But I guess the thing that's seared into my brain more than anything else is the look on Gerald's face as the crowd cheered for him and cheered for Niles. What was the look? Bitter sweet? And then Gerald nods ever so slightly as if to say thank you, and he gets in the police car. As the car carrying Gerald hay slowly inched away from the scene, the crowd continued to mobroke Niles is naw It would be hours before the massively long line of Los Angelenos going in and out of Jas's forty two would finally dissipate. By dawn, Jason's forty two sports bar and Grill had been converted into a virtual memorial site with floral arrangements, murals, candles and other mementos that people left behind. I think it's also fair to say, inasmuch as people were paying their respects to Niles, on some level there was a sense of relief to that the collective we chose peace and love over mutual destruction, Which leads to this question. For all that happened that day, the good and the bad, and for all that has transpired in the year that has passed, has anything really changed? And maybe just as important, is something like this going to happen again? Listen to what Commander Ammon said about this. Speaking for myself, I can tell you how that day altered my perspective on things. In order for police to do our job effectively, we have to find a way to maintain or regain the moral high ground. And if we keep seating our goodwill to things like racism, misconduct, or cover ups, even we run the risk of altering the type of society we presume to have and what type of society will we end up with if we don't do this. A lot of very good one all due respect to the Commander Kate, but he's just one man, and one man's epiphany isn't going to fix anything. But I will say this, things have definitely changed in what way we've gotten worse. I mean, look at me. I got run out of the force because too many people felt that I was too sympathetic to Gerald All that Coombay a ship you saw from police officers leaving behind badges and shaking hands with gang bankers. That last at about twenty four hours, and it was right back to business as usual next thing you know, I'm hearing that a lot of my former fellow officers felt that I chose black over blue. If anybody chose black over blue that day, I would argue that it was Commander Ammond's. That's funny that he's been commended for how he handled the situation and you got vilified. Funny isn't the word I would use, But I agree seekers That's exactly why I've enjoyed talking to you so much. Truly, you are not afraid to just level with me. I was never good at lying, and that's why you're the perfect person to ask, how do we make sure that this never happens again? But he's killing an unowned black person with a brink of civil war both mm hmm prayer. Yeah, but you're not religious, You've got a better idea thought, So how can you get another beer? What one? So shall? I want to start by thanking you for inviting me to your home again, and just overall because you've been so patient with me with my questions, and I know it hasn't been easy. And I also want to say I'm a bit nervous because there's something I've been wanting to ask you. You want to know if I blame Gerald for now this is passing? Wow? Am I that transparent? Jase gave me a heads up, and I'm glad he did because I like you, Kate, and I may have felt some kind of way about it if you just asked me that question the wrong way, that's completely fair. Here's the thing. I know Gerald Tart and you couldn't convince me in a thousand years that he for one second wasn't doing what he thought was best for Niles. But that doesn't mean that I haven't imagined every single scenario where if maybe this happens, then now is is still alive, or if that happens, then maybe he's just paralyzed, but he's still here. But the truth is the thing I obsessed about more than anything is why didn't not I was just put his hands at ten and two and say to those cops yes sir, no sir, or I'm sorry sir. Why did he talk back? Why wasn't he more clever or or more charming? And then I hate myself but thinking these things, Kate, because wat should my son have to be perfectly polite or perfectly likable to survive a freaking traffic stop. And every once in a while I think, Wow, my baby touched the entire world, he and Gerald both And then for a minute or so I'm at peace, but it never lasts. I'll never really be a piece until I'm in my resting place. Mh. I want to give you something, Kate, and I think it will help you find something better than just answers to your questions. What is it? Revelation? About five months ago, I got a call from the police department and they told me to come down to the station and pick up now its belongings, which confused me at first because I had already claimed all of this stuff from the hospital. But these two things never made it with them to the hospital. They were found at the scene here. Oh, Michell, I don't I can't take these, Kate. You are telling the story of both of my men, and it's important that you get it right. I'm not giving these to you as a gift. They are something I expect you to bear and to honor. The first thing inside the envelope was niles driver's license. Apparently Sergeant Place must have dropped it on the street as the altercation began. The other item was Niles is Moehler, the same tooth that was bludgeoned out of his mouth by Officer Webb's knee. So there I was sitting across from Michelle her Son's government, I d and dental remains in the palm of my hand, and all of a sudden I felt an unbearable shame come over me. It became painfully obvious to me that no amount of analytical thinking, information parsing, or interviewing would ever get me to understand, because this isn't something you can get by thinking. It's something you have to feel. And just like Michelle intended, like a revelation, this is what came to me as I sat there, dumbfounded. In all this time, I hadn't taken less loss as if he was my own. And I think Michelle knew that, and I think Jason knew that too. The fact of the matter is Niles and Gerald, until that very moment, where a story to me. But a lot of the people who supported Gerald's child didn't look at Niles and Gerald as a story. They didn't see themselves as something apart from their own lives. They were watching their people, they were watching family, they were watching themselves. Holding the last solid remnant of what was once Niles is vibrant life in the palm of my hand. Put me in a place that previously I just wasn't able to get to. And the best way I can describe that feeling is that it was overwhelming. It was sorrowful, angry, and I just had an impulse to scream. Somebody has to do something, somebody has to keep this type of thing from ever happening again. That's exactly what Gerrold did. He did something, and a lot of people needed that, And I understand that now. And look, there was no version of me that would ever have voted in the trial. Call me old fashioned, naive, or even privileged, but I still believe in the rule of law. So when I left Michelle's place, I knew I needed to examine myself just as hard as I spent the last year looking at Gerald Hayes. And Originally I had planned for my interview with Michelle to be the last one for this project, but I realized that I needed one more sit down to fix a wrong that I committed along the way, Because even though Jason I had established a really good rapport after getting off to a rocky start, I now see that some of my questions around guilt and culpability may have been justifiable from an investigative standpoint, but it no longer sat well with me from a human point of view, and I needed to correct that. This time, our meet up was at a restaurant that I suggested in Santa Monica, one that overlooks the peer. Jason was well enough to leave a sober living apartment again, so I figured we'd give it a try. As I waited for him to arrive, I thought about all the people whose lives were intimately touched by the day Niles was killed. I thought about the people that subsequently then let me into their homes, there, workplaces, and in varying degrees, into their hearts and minds. Then I thought about Sergeant Place, who as of today, is still waiting on the grand jury to decide whether or not he will be charged for niles His death, and has repeatedly refused to interview for this project, citing pending the litigation. I also thought about Officer Webb and how his last act on this planet, before being shot by his own partner, was beating an innocent man to death for no reason at all, and how that same no reason at all justified the killing of Philando Castile to mere Rice, Eric Gardner, Michael Brown, Lacwon McDonald, Freddie Gray Trayvon Martin, George Floyd, Sandra Bland, and so many more. But mostly as I sat there, I thought about Gerald Gerald Hayes, the man who I had spent the better part of a year either trying to understand or empathize with, and all too often prosecute. And regardless of how many times I tried to get him to take a visit from me while he waits in the County jail for his trial, in which he has been indicted on fourteen counts, including kidnapping and the murder of his own son, Gerald's attorney always relays the same message my client has said all that he wishes to say on the matter. Still deep in thought, I pondered these things when I hear my name, Okay, you are right, and I look up, almost as if coming out of a deep slumber, and before me I see a very healthy looking Jay Shaw standing across the table. As I take him in, I wonder if Jace looks better than ever because he's winning his battle with addiction, or is it because he's lost a few pounds, Or maybe it's because he recently found out that the d A has dropped all charges against him. I see you got your recording right. You must got a lot of questions to think, because you usually don't break it out of the We've already smoked questions today. Actually, this time it's it's here to record my voice, if you're up for it. I just want you to give Gerald a message for me. But before I do that, I want to apologize to you. Jas. I guess in all of my poking and plotting and looking for someone to blame and all of this, I let you blame yourself and I did worse than that. I push you to blame yourself. Hi, for what it's worth. I just I hope if I am ever, in a real bind. I have the type of friend who was stand up for me like you did for Gerald. That day, Jase gives me a big bear hug that I wasn't quite expecting, but it was one that I think we both very much needed, and for the next few minutes we both cried in the middle of the restaurant. I think the waiter came over twice to ask us if we needed anything, but really she was suggesting that we stopped disturbing the other customers. And I wish I could tell you exactly what made me so emotional, One because and not much of a crier, and two because I wasn't crying about anything in particular. My guess is that it was just an all out emotional purge that needed to happen as I concluded this year long journey where I had basically been groundhog s daying Niles is death over and over. Here's the message I recorded for Gerald. Okay, here goes mm hmm. Hello Gerald. My name is Kate Bell, and I've spent the last twelve months of my professional life trying to come to terms with one thing, how I should view you, and in all of my reporting and logical thinking, I hope to come up with the clear picture of Gerald Hayes the man. Is he a hero or a villain? To blame or not to blame? But the deeper I stepped into your world, the foggy are the lines between right and wrong? God for me, and really it's it's more than that, because it also became harder for me to separate the line between Kate Bell the journalist and Kate the person. At the start of this project, my instinct was telling me that beyond Officer Webb and Sergeant Places attack on your son, there was a third accomplice responsible for niles of death. And for a long time I pegged you there's even evidence to support that claim, But I want you to know that in the court of Kate Bell, I deemed that evidence to be inadmissible. Your son was murdered by the very people who are supposed to be our protectors, and getting on the other side of that emotional singularity is something that I'm just ashamed to say has taken me too long to arrive at. Thankfully, Michelle helped me understand that that's all I really needed to know in the first place. But my instinct was right, there was a third accomplice, one that has been hiding in plain sight all along. But it's it's not one person, it's all of us. It's me, and it's countless others who have been camouflaging ourselves with silence, who have been unable or unwilling to understand that throughout this despicable legacy of cases where we see unarmed black men and boys and women suffer the same fate at the hands of police, how that not only destroys lives, but it also destroys every bit of moral authority that the police have in this country. And even more, it's eroding the soul of our nation. Our silence and our ignorance has been and continues to be our complicity. Our silence and our ignorance is our culpability, and we're guilty. To me, that's what your trial was about, exposing us as that third assailant. And as long as the savage ritual of contempt for black lives at the hands of police is allowed to find safe harbor in precincts and prosecutors offices and court rooms, then every one of us is at risk because the next time we may not be so lucky. We may not be able to pull back from the brink of mutual destruction, and you showed us that. But as grim as that may be, I also don't despair because we are not doomed to repeat this cycle over and over. And the reason I know that is because I found my hero and all of this. Eles Gerald, Your son was so unbelievably precious, and because of you, the world will never forget him or what he stood for. And for that, I thank you, and I salute you, and I pray that we can live up to his memory and his words. Chin Up, Noise Down, Rise Together, Hashtag Matter, starring Amen Joseph as Gerald Hayes, Jennifer Christopher as Kate Bell, Steve Harris as Jace Shaw Hayley, Joel Osmond as Sergeant Place, Pooch Hall as Martin Simms, and Snoop Dogg as Big H. Additional performances by Nile Bullock as Nile's Hayes, Serina Pouncy as Michelle Hayes, Alfonso Faustino as Sergeant Hobbs, John Lacy as Commander Emmonds, Alex Kihano as Captain Flores, Monte Russell as Detective Patterson, and Stephen Robert Wallenberg as Detective Halmer, with appearances by Mercy Malick, Ryan Smith, Amir Tali, Alex Vaughan, Colin Ward, and Orvald Williams. Hashtag Matter was written and directed by Dylan C. Brown. Our executive producers are Sandy Bailey, Lauren Holman, Dylan Brown, Winnie Kemp, and Amen Joseph. Audio designed by Wolf at the Door, Sound design and mix by Josh Falcon, music by Jonathan Sanford, edited by Narin Polling and our sound director in Alexander Kemp. Produced by Toby Lawless and Lucy Jones. Casting by Lawless Casting. Hashtag Matter is a production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio and an association with Wolf at the Door. 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