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The Secret Conclave is underway to elect a new pope. Professor Peter Liinam has written and lectured extensively on religious history. Here is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to the process behind the conclave and the election of a new pope, and he joins us now, Professor Lynon, good afternoon, Good afternoon to you.

The Secret Conclave is underway to elect a new pope. Professor Peter Liinam has written and lectured extensively on religious history. Here is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to the process behind the conclave and the election of a new pope, and he joins us now, Professor Lynon, good afternoon, Good afternoon to you.

So we go right back to the very basics. Who can be pope? Who is actually eligible for the job?

So we go right back to the very basics. Who can be pope? Who is actually eligible for the job?

So the popes are drawn from the cardinals of the church, and the cardinals the office was created as a specific way to create a kind of an elite cabinet for the church. And originally there weren't very many of them. Now of course we've got one hundred and thirty five, but it was originally actually local Italian cardinals who fulfill these roles.

So the popes are drawn from the cardinals of the church, and the cardinals the office was created as a specific way to create a kind of an elite cabinet for the church. And originally there weren't very many of them. Now of course we've got one hundred and thirty five, but it was originally actually local Italian cardinals who fulfill these roles.

And so it can only be from one of them. It can't be I don't know, just someone that's been baptized in New Zealand. It has to be a part of that group of cardinals.

And so it can only be from one of them. It can't be I don't know, just someone that's been baptized in New Zealand. It has to be a part of that group of cardinals.

Yes, that is a restriction, mind you. Ironically the cardinals don't have to be ordained. They actually technically could include a lay person, maybe even a woman, though there's absolutely no signs of that happening.

Yes, that is a restriction, mind you. Ironically the cardinals don't have to be ordained. They actually technically could include a lay person, maybe even a woman, though there's absolutely no signs of that happening.

Well is it true? Though, just just to jump ahead that there is the Pope Jones story true that a woman snuck in there eighty eight five five, and now they check to make sure it's a man.

Well is it true? Though, just just to jump ahead that there is the Pope Jones story true that a woman snuck in there eighty eight five five, and now they check to make sure it's a man.

Great thought, but all despite the conclude movie, et cetera. No, I think that's the bit.

Great thought, but all despite the conclude movie, et cetera. No, I think that's the bit.

Okay, So what is the basic process of selecting the new pope from these cardinals?

Okay, So what is the basic process of selecting the new pope from these cardinals?

So this is a really historical thing. It's evolved in the process because there were times it didn't always select the popes this way, and in fact it's only been in the nineteenth century that it got tightened down to this kind of secret process. And apparently in twenty thirteen somebody did manage to disguise themselves as a cardinal and sneak into the election, but it got kicked out by the Swiss guards. It's not quite out of it down. Effectively, the cardinals are locked up in the Systeine Chapel and they have a small piece of paper on which they can write the name of one of their number that they think should be pope, and then there will be discussion and they pause the meals. Meanwhile there's a total blackout because they do not want cardinals talking on their cell phones to the media or to you or me. And they keep doing that four times a day until they have a pope.

So this is a really historical thing. It's evolved in the process because there were times it didn't always select the popes this way, and in fact it's only been in the nineteenth century that it got tightened down to this kind of secret process. And apparently in twenty thirteen somebody did manage to disguise themselves as a cardinal and sneak into the election, but it got kicked out by the Swiss guards. It's not quite out of it down. Effectively, the cardinals are locked up in the Systeine Chapel and they have a small piece of paper on which they can write the name of one of their number that they think should be pope, and then there will be discussion and they pause the meals. Meanwhile there's a total blackout because they do not want cardinals talking on their cell phones to the media or to you or me. And they keep doing that four times a day until they have a pope.

Wow, And I guess this is a pretty broad question, but what are they looking.

Wow, And I guess this is a pretty broad question, but what are they looking.

For so effectively, they're looking at someone who can manage the global church and who can run the Vatican efficiently. I mean it is technically the pope is a monarch as kind of king of the church, and it was designed in the days when they had monarchs, and hence all the grandeur of the ceremony involved in it. But if you can't effectively keep the wheels of the Vatican turning, keep raising money to pay for the central apparatus of the church, then the whole thing will collapse. And that's effectively why Benedict resigned in twenty twelve, because he just proved incapable, maybe incompetent, at running the Vatican Bank, and then all the sexual abuse scandals, he just couldn't handle it anymore. So you've got to be able to do that.

For so effectively, they're looking at someone who can manage the global church and who can run the Vatican efficiently. I mean it is technically the pope is a monarch as kind of king of the church, and it was designed in the days when they had monarchs, and hence all the grandeur of the ceremony involved in it. But if you can't effectively keep the wheels of the Vatican turning, keep raising money to pay for the central apparatus of the church, then the whole thing will collapse. And that's effectively why Benedict resigned in twenty twelve, because he just proved incapable, maybe incompetent, at running the Vatican Bank, and then all the sexual abuse scandals, he just couldn't handle it anymore. So you've got to be able to do that.

So that was the first time in say one hundred years that a pope had stepped down, am I right?

So that was the first time in say one hundred years that a pope had stepped down, am I right?

Yes, that's right, there's been a few presidents. Francis also is the first pope for six hundred years to choose a new name, because normally they're drawn from a small cluster of names of previous popes, right, And this will be so interesting to watch what, but whatever the new pope chooses, because that's the major clue we'll get of what his focus is.

Yes, that's right, there's been a few presidents. Francis also is the first pope for six hundred years to choose a new name, because normally they're drawn from a small cluster of names of previous popes, right, And this will be so interesting to watch what, but whatever the new pope chooses, because that's the major clue we'll get of what his focus is.

So, Pope Francis, has he appointed many of the cardinals that will select his successor. And by looking at at some of these cardinals, it is a very diverse group, isn't it. There are some countries there that have cardinals for the first time sale su Dan Papa, New Guinea.

So, Pope Francis, has he appointed many of the cardinals that will select his successor. And by looking at at some of these cardinals, it is a very diverse group, isn't it. There are some countries there that have cardinals for the first time sale su Dan Papa, New Guinea.

And Tonga and Tong. I don't forget tong.

And Tonga and Tong. I don't forget tong.

Right, a tongue pope would be good.

Right, a tongue pope would be good.

So yeah, this is a really interesting question because yes, he selected almost well well, O behalf. I think two thirds of the cardinals are new. They don't know each other particularly well. And so looking at the people he selected, because two things might have been born in mind, he presumably wanted the things that he cared about to be reflected in the cardinals, but he also had a big thing about representation of the worldwide church. After all, he was from South America. So the only thing to bear in mind is you can't assume that they all think like Francis, because we already know that the cardinals from Africa were really unhappy when he proposed a process of informal blessings of same sex marriage of same sex relationships. They said, we're not going to do this in Africa. And these were the cardinals he had selected.

So yeah, this is a really interesting question because yes, he selected almost well well, O behalf. I think two thirds of the cardinals are new. They don't know each other particularly well. And so looking at the people he selected, because two things might have been born in mind, he presumably wanted the things that he cared about to be reflected in the cardinals, but he also had a big thing about representation of the worldwide church. After all, he was from South America. So the only thing to bear in mind is you can't assume that they all think like Francis, because we already know that the cardinals from Africa were really unhappy when he proposed a process of informal blessings of same sex marriage of same sex relationships. They said, we're not going to do this in Africa. And these were the cardinals he had selected.

How important is the pope in twenty twenty five, Where does it sitt in terms of world leaders as a position.

How important is the pope in twenty twenty five, Where does it sitt in terms of world leaders as a position.

Well, the pope of the last fifty years had turned into global figures, and that's a really striking aspect of the ways in which the papacy works. They really are spectacularly public in traveling all around the world, and because of that, I think we can assume these are really important figures, although they've got no formal power. Remember one point four billion Catholics, that's a huge proportion the largest religious group in the world.

Well, the pope of the last fifty years had turned into global figures, and that's a really striking aspect of the ways in which the papacy works. They really are spectacularly public in traveling all around the world, and because of that, I think we can assume these are really important figures, although they've got no formal power. Remember one point four billion Catholics, that's a huge proportion the largest religious group in the world.

Yeah, that's incredible, But I mean, in different times they have had different influence. I'm just actually listening to a historical broadcast at the moment on ten sixty Sex, and a lot of it's about Pope Alexander I and sanctioning William the Conqueror's invasion of England. I oven think he provided a papal banner for William the Conqueror to attack Unders.

Yeah, that's incredible, But I mean, in different times they have had different influence. I'm just actually listening to a historical broadcast at the moment on ten sixty Sex, and a lot of it's about Pope Alexander I and sanctioning William the Conqueror's invasion of England. I oven think he provided a papal banner for William the Conqueror to attack Unders.

Yes, yes, so the pope in the days when Church and Stay were handed in glove. Yes, indeed he authorized the Norman conquest of England and made it very difficult for Harold and that sort of thing you are unlikely to see up today happily. But I don't think you can completely discount the potential influence. For example, the popes made some previous Pope made some very strong remarks about Palestine Israel situation, and that's made American Catholics feel very uncomfortable. And I was most intrigued that apparently one of the right wing capitalist groups in the States has been taking potential influential cardinals out for lunch in Rome over the last week and a half to make sure that they get somebody who's not to not too socialism, so.

Yes, yes, so the pope in the days when Church and Stay were handed in glove. Yes, indeed he authorized the Norman conquest of England and made it very difficult for Harold and that sort of thing you are unlikely to see up today happily. But I don't think you can completely discount the potential influence. For example, the popes made some previous Pope made some very strong remarks about Palestine Israel situation, and that's made American Catholics feel very uncomfortable. And I was most intrigued that apparently one of the right wing capitalist groups in the States has been taking potential influential cardinals out for lunch in Rome over the last week and a half to make sure that they get somebody who's not to not too socialism, so.

Someone a bit more Benedict like going forward. Well, incredibly interesting.

Someone a bit more Benedict like going forward. Well, incredibly interesting.

Yeah, so gut Field, Peter. I know it's very hard to the tumor because it is a secret conclave, but I believe I Understandtand it took two days to select Pope Francis last time. What's your gut field this time? Do you think it will be fast or maybe sometime?

Yeah, so gut Field, Peter. I know it's very hard to the tumor because it is a secret conclave, but I believe I Understandtand it took two days to select Pope Francis last time. What's your gut field this time? Do you think it will be fast or maybe sometime?

I think it will all be done by Friday Friday night, I think, I think. I mean, it may take one more vote than it took with Francis, but people pretty quickly get realistic. They hear the results of the votes, right.

I think it will all be done by Friday Friday night, I think, I think. I mean, it may take one more vote than it took with Francis, but people pretty quickly get realistic. They hear the results of the votes, right.

So it's not a sacret ballot ballot, it's you hear.

So it's not a sacret ballot ballot, it's you hear.

Well, you don't know who all right.

Well, you don't know who all right.

Right, but you see which way it's going.

Right, but you see which way it's going.

Yeah, but you see which way it's going. And so quite clearly, conversation will have gone on overnight, and they'll come back when they start again tonight, and they'll they'll be an elimination of various the marginal candidates and they'll throw their votes behind other people, and so there'll be a lot of conversations gone overnight. I'd be surprised if it goes beyond five ballots.

Yeah, but you see which way it's going. And so quite clearly, conversation will have gone on overnight, and they'll come back when they start again tonight, and they'll they'll be an elimination of various the marginal candidates and they'll throw their votes behind other people, and so there'll be a lot of conversations gone overnight. I'd be surprised if it goes beyond five ballots.

And do you is it a kind of thing where you know front runners, you have names obviously when they become the pope, they get a new name, but names that are at the top of the top of contention.

And do you is it a kind of thing where you know front runners, you have names obviously when they become the pope, they get a new name, but names that are at the top of the top of contention.

There's a lot of names being thrown around as being top names. But as most key watchers say, this is probably one of the most open elections that there have been for ages because of all these new cardinals. And there clearly will be people from the South who want another person out of the kind of Italian European domination of the past thousand years. But as a Hope can't speak Italian, they'll be at a serious disadvantage, and so that might put the pressure. And I'm sure the Italians are angling to get another at least another European back. So I find it very very difficult to read, let alone the conservative versus liberal debate that's going on. I'm sure very yeah.

There's a lot of names being thrown around as being top names. But as most key watchers say, this is probably one of the most open elections that there have been for ages because of all these new cardinals. And there clearly will be people from the South who want another person out of the kind of Italian European domination of the past thousand years. But as a Hope can't speak Italian, they'll be at a serious disadvantage, and so that might put the pressure. And I'm sure the Italians are angling to get another at least another European back. So I find it very very difficult to read, let alone the conservative versus liberal debate that's going on. I'm sure very yeah.

I'd like to see a Pope Pious. I'd like that name to come back and to use.

I'd like to see a Pope Pious. I'd like that name to come back and to use.

It's got a nice rink. Oh well, yes, but you certainly want is politics the ninth his no not run thing of the twelfth relationships with the with an NZI Germany.

It's got a nice rink. Oh well, yes, but you certainly want is politics the ninth his no not run thing of the twelfth relationships with the with an NZI Germany.

I was I was Pious, the ninth, the longest pope running Pope but yeah, okay, so not another pious Peter.

I was I was Pious, the ninth, the longest pope running Pope but yeah, okay, so not another pious Peter.

It's been lovely chatting with you. Thank you very much for your expertise and and time, and hopefully we'll catch up maybe next week if there is an election of our new pope.

It's been lovely chatting with you. Thank you very much for your expertise and and time, and hopefully we'll catch up maybe next week if there is an election of our new pope.

Indeed, yes, very good, thank you.

Indeed, yes, very good, thank you.

That is Professor Peter Lynham. He is a religious expert and scholar of religious history.

That is Professor Peter Lynham. He is a religious expert and scholar of religious history.

For more from Newstalk set B listen live on air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio

For more from Newstalk set B listen live on air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio