By the way, going back to se O again, there's this. Did you see the WU commerce SEO migration disaster?

By the way, going back to se O again, there's this. Did you see the WU commerce SEO migration disaster?

No?

No?

So, okay, WU Commerce they are Would you call them a plug in for WordPress where it helps enable WordPress sites to do e commerce. That's basically what it is at the end of the day. Yeah, yeah, it's it's a plugin that just makes your WordPress more like commerce I but it's not as good. Yeah. So Cyrus Shepherd on Twitter said this crazy. Five months after completing a major domain migration, WU commerce will revert the entire thing after traffic goes south. This after assembling a group of SEO experts and consultants quote unquote, got to be honest, the chance of things going worse after a second migration is easily greater than zero. So basically, in this graph over here, they basically migrated from WU commerce to wu dot com and traffic just tanks, like completely fell off a cliff, like basically to zero. And now they seem to have switched back. It seems like they're they're they just reversed back in like November of twenty twenty three. The traffic is coming back slowly, but it's still like maybe forty percent of what it was before. That sucks, But from the grand scheme of things, WordPress can drive most assignments from WordPress dot com. Yeah, it's such a big business, you get what I mean? Like, I totally agree, right, Like, yeah, you shouldn't botch these migrations, and it's important to do them right because you're just losing extra revenue.

So, okay, WU Commerce they are Would you call them a plug in for WordPress where it helps enable WordPress sites to do e commerce. That's basically what it is at the end of the day. Yeah, yeah, it's it's a plugin that just makes your WordPress more like commerce I but it's not as good. Yeah. So Cyrus Shepherd on Twitter said this crazy. Five months after completing a major domain migration, WU commerce will revert the entire thing after traffic goes south. This after assembling a group of SEO experts and consultants quote unquote, got to be honest, the chance of things going worse after a second migration is easily greater than zero. So basically, in this graph over here, they basically migrated from WU commerce to wu dot com and traffic just tanks, like completely fell off a cliff, like basically to zero. And now they seem to have switched back. It seems like they're they're they just reversed back in like November of twenty twenty three. The traffic is coming back slowly, but it's still like maybe forty percent of what it was before. That sucks, But from the grand scheme of things, WordPress can drive most assignments from WordPress dot com. Yeah, it's such a big business, you get what I mean? Like, I totally agree, right, Like, yeah, you shouldn't botch these migrations, and it's important to do them right because you're just losing extra revenue.

Oh you're so lucky, or drink did and spill into your laptop.

Oh you're so lucky, or drink did and spill into your laptop.

But with the WordPress migration, with the site migrations, yeah, ideally you want your traffic to go up or at least stay the same. For a business of that size, I don't think it matters too much. But again I would have been pissed and I would have had someone fix it right away.

But with the WordPress migration, with the site migrations, yeah, ideally you want your traffic to go up or at least stay the same. For a business of that size, I don't think it matters too much. But again I would have been pissed and I would have had someone fix it right away.

Yeah, you'd gone ape shit. I would have done ape shit.

Yeah, you'd gone ape shit. I would have done ape shit.

Yeah. They just bought a business for one hundred and twenty five million, was it?

Yeah. They just bought a business for one hundred and twenty five million, was it?

I don't remember.

I don't remember.

Yeah, No, the article ended up coming out.

Yeah, No, the article ended up coming out.

I think it. Well, that caught me out.

I think it. Well, that caught me out.

They'll be fine, I mean, but this is stuff that This is just what happens when companies don't take SEO seriously, Like a migration's really hard. Translations translation can get complicated too, like all these things that you want to do at scale.

They'll be fine, I mean, but this is stuff that This is just what happens when companies don't take SEO seriously, Like a migration's really hard. Translations translation can get complicated too, like all these things that you want to do at scale.

You want to make sure that you're talking to the right people.

You want to make sure that you're talking to the right people.

At the end of the day, Wordpressed owner acquires Beeper, the app that briefly brought I Message to Android one hundred and twenty five million dollars. Huh and then they bought was it text dot com? Text dot com? They bought that last October?

At the end of the day, Wordpressed owner acquires Beeper, the app that briefly brought I Message to Android one hundred and twenty five million dollars. Huh and then they bought was it text dot com? Text dot com? They bought that last October?

Oh yeah, so they're going on a little spree.

Oh yeah, so they're going on a little spree.

Yeah. Now they want to do content not just on a blog. They also want to do it through uh messaging. But I don't think that's that much of a big pain.

Yeah. Now they want to do content not just on a blog. They also want to do it through uh messaging. But I don't think that's that much of a big pain.

Like sometimes people just start buying stupid stuff.

Like sometimes people just start buying stupid stuff.

So, dude, you have an iPhone, I have an iPhone. Do you really care if you text Android people and it's on I Message? Nope, me either, I text them it goes through. Why don't need to buy an app that has multi service messaging app? Like?

So, dude, you have an iPhone, I have an iPhone. Do you really care if you text Android people and it's on I Message? Nope, me either, I text them it goes through. Why don't need to buy an app that has multi service messaging app? Like?

Who can care?

Who can care?

You know? So like reaching reading that Amazon book working backwards? You know why the firephone failed? Why because so they were all gung ho on this one feature to.

You know? So like reaching reading that Amazon book working backwards? You know why the firephone failed? Why because so they were all gung ho on this one feature to.

Cut you off. What is the firephone?

Cut you off. What is the firephone?

So that's okay, this is this is when Amazon launched a phone they were trying to compete with like the iPhone and everything, right, And Jeff Bezos was really sold on it. In fact, he was the one that helped push the narrative through to get this this product out there. What they were selling was like this like four dimensional camera or whatever that can do all these things like you can you know, scan your your your sunglasses and you know you'll see it in like like all these different views, right, But nobody gets a crap about that, right. It's all you care about is with your iPhone. You care about the ecosystem, the apps, the user, the usability of it, all these things. Right. So that's where they missed the mark because they didn't do customer development. They thought that the feature that they had was so game changing that well at the end of the day, even when they sold it at a really high price. But eventually they got to a point where it just like we should just give this away and try to get people to signup the prime. Even then when they start to start to give it away, nobody wanted it. Dude. It reminds me of like the snap goggles. Everyone's like, oh, these are really cool, you can take pictures.

So that's okay, this is this is when Amazon launched a phone they were trying to compete with like the iPhone and everything, right, And Jeff Bezos was really sold on it. In fact, he was the one that helped push the narrative through to get this this product out there. What they were selling was like this like four dimensional camera or whatever that can do all these things like you can you know, scan your your your sunglasses and you know you'll see it in like like all these different views, right, But nobody gets a crap about that, right. It's all you care about is with your iPhone. You care about the ecosystem, the apps, the user, the usability of it, all these things. Right. So that's where they missed the mark because they didn't do customer development. They thought that the feature that they had was so game changing that well at the end of the day, even when they sold it at a really high price. But eventually they got to a point where it just like we should just give this away and try to get people to signup the prime. Even then when they start to start to give it away, nobody wanted it. Dude. It reminds me of like the snap goggles. Everyone's like, oh, these are really cool, you can take pictures.

I had a pair.

I had a pair.

You had, I'm like, who's gonna. Okay, Eric bought it. He's testing for probably marketing purposes, But who really wants to buy goggles just to take pictures. It's just like, no, I could just bust out my phone and click a picture because it doesn't look that.

You had, I'm like, who's gonna. Okay, Eric bought it. He's testing for probably marketing purposes, But who really wants to buy goggles just to take pictures. It's just like, no, I could just bust out my phone and click a picture because it doesn't look that.

Good, you know.

Good, you know.

It's it's kind of like the metal ones. So the metal ones they look cool. They look I mean I think they kind of looked like this, right.

It's it's kind of like the metal ones. So the metal ones they look cool. They look I mean I think they kind of looked like this, right.

So you already are those ray bands?

So you already are those ray bands?

No, but the ray bands it's the same thing as the Snap thing where you could hit it. I don't take like a sixty second story. Where are they tom Ford?

No, but the ray bands it's the same thing as the Snap thing where you could hit it. I don't take like a sixty second story. Where are they tom Ford?

No, but you're not Tom Ford.

No, but you're not Tom Ford.

But anyway, if you can do that, it's kind of cool, like we can like on command, I can hit it. It's just I think it was too early for its time, and plus not many people use Snap. So what I'm looking for is imagine wearing a pair of glasses like ray bands or anything like that, and getting what you get and and Apple's vision pro right in front of your face. Yes, that'll sell like crazy. Yes, if that would sell today for twenty grand I would pay the money for it, yep.

But anyway, if you can do that, it's kind of cool, like we can like on command, I can hit it. It's just I think it was too early for its time, and plus not many people use Snap. So what I'm looking for is imagine wearing a pair of glasses like ray bands or anything like that, and getting what you get and and Apple's vision pro right in front of your face. Yes, that'll sell like crazy. Yes, if that would sell today for twenty grand I would pay the money for it, yep.

Yeah. And so it's the convenience of it.

Yeah. And so it's the convenience of it.

It's the usability of it, and it helps you create content a lot more naturally.

It's the usability of it, and it helps you create content a lot more naturally.

That's why we would pay for it too. That's a big reason. I think it would also make life better. Yep.

That's why we would pay for it too. That's a big reason. I think it would also make life better. Yep.

You know, I don't know about you, but like when I walk around, you.

You know, I don't know about you, but like when I walk around, you.

Can't wear a big Yeah.

Can't wear a big Yeah.

Not just for that, but like, I'm always curious about things, and sometimes my wife always tells me, like should like elbow me. Like we're in like a store and I'm like, so, how many sales do you guys do per day? What's your monthly revenue? What portion is cash?

Not just for that, but like, I'm always curious about things, and sometimes my wife always tells me, like should like elbow me. Like we're in like a store and I'm like, so, how many sales do you guys do per day? What's your monthly revenue? What portion is cash?

What portion?

What portion?

And She's like, Neil, they think you're gonna rob them. You can't talk like this. I was like, I'm just curious to learn about their business.

And She's like, Neil, they think you're gonna rob them. You can't talk like this. I was like, I'm just curious to learn about their business.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like it'll be an assistant that follows you around, so I think we'll eventually get there. Yeah. So on a side note, Oh crap, my, there you go.

It's like it'll be an assistant that follows you around, so I think we'll eventually get there. Yeah. So on a side note, Oh crap, my, there you go.

My sheet just disappeared.

My sheet just disappeared.

It's okay, I can take it from here. So you want to know? So Chimath said this recently. He said that content creators are the new form of demand gen Did you see that you listened to the recent all in I did not so, which is interesting because when you think about you think about Chama's pobaly Hepatia, Mark and Dreesen, you think about Brad Gerstner, right, Bill Gurley for example. These are all well known vcs. All they've all done very well for themselves. Do they need more money, not necessarily. Do they want more deals? Yeah they do.

It's okay, I can take it from here. So you want to know? So Chimath said this recently. He said that content creators are the new form of demand gen Did you see that you listened to the recent all in I did not so, which is interesting because when you think about you think about Chama's pobaly Hepatia, Mark and Dreesen, you think about Brad Gerstner, right, Bill Gurley for example. These are all well known vcs. All they've all done very well for themselves. Do they need more money, not necessarily. Do they want more deals? Yeah they do.

So they're creating podcasts or writing newsletters.

So they're creating podcasts or writing newsletters.

They're doing all They're making little communities. And I think it's interesting because it's marketing is getting harder and when you look at the creator payout seventy percent growing year on year, it's going to continue to compound even more. The question is are creators the next form of demand gen? And we see from Marside we're seeing a continued rise in interest in influencer marketing. It's funny, I do think creators are amazing demand gen. Way to attract more demand, we've shifted how we look at marketing. A lot of times we used to look at platforms like Instagram, especially when it comes to social Instagram or TikTok. We no longer look at platforms like Instagram or TikTok unless it's like for paid ads, but for organic we mainly focus on the people who are the people that are gaining the attention and are they relevant enough for the product or service that we have, and can we work with them because they can generate demand. Look at mister bast and how much demand he generates for chocolate or burgers or whatever is that he wants to sell that day. And I'm assuming when you work with these influencers, you're just taking a cut. Like let's say I charge one hundred thousand dollars, you probably just take ten percent or something like that, right. No, Typically it's a fee to do all the work and the outreach and stuff like that.

They're doing all They're making little communities. And I think it's interesting because it's marketing is getting harder and when you look at the creator payout seventy percent growing year on year, it's going to continue to compound even more. The question is are creators the next form of demand gen? And we see from Marside we're seeing a continued rise in interest in influencer marketing. It's funny, I do think creators are amazing demand gen. Way to attract more demand, we've shifted how we look at marketing. A lot of times we used to look at platforms like Instagram, especially when it comes to social Instagram or TikTok. We no longer look at platforms like Instagram or TikTok unless it's like for paid ads, but for organic we mainly focus on the people who are the people that are gaining the attention and are they relevant enough for the product or service that we have, and can we work with them because they can generate demand. Look at mister bast and how much demand he generates for chocolate or burgers or whatever is that he wants to sell that day. And I'm assuming when you work with these influencers, you're just taking a cut. Like let's say I charge one hundred thousand dollars, you probably just take ten percent or something like that, right. No, Typically it's a fee to do all the work and the outreach and stuff like that.

You're doing cost plus. Yeah, yeah, got it.

You're doing cost plus. Yeah, yeah, got it.

So you're not taking a cut on whatever the influencer charges.

So you're not taking a cut on whatever the influencer charges.

It depends a lot of times is cost plus. Sometimes it is a cut.

It depends a lot of times is cost plus. Sometimes it is a cut.

It depends on the corporation and how their structure and they want it to be done internally, got it.

It depends on the corporation and how their structure and they want it to be done internally, got it.

Yeah, So it's a collaboration.

Yeah, So it's a collaboration.

Yeah, Because for some companies they're just like, here's our budget, this is the ROI we're expecting. We want you to go spend it. We don't want to pay you any fees. Take it from the budget. And then some are like, no, we want you to tell us what your fees are, and either way, we're transparent in both ways, but just certain organizations are like, I need it done this way for accounting or internal purposes to get approval, and we're like, all right, that's what has their own incentives. But yeah, all right, real quick, I need to tell you about the group that Neil and I created called the Agency Owners Association. And this is a group that's similar to entrepreneurial organizations such as YPO or EO. By the way, Neil and I are both YPO, but we thought it would be really cool if we're able to create a group that's dedicated to agency owners to helping them scale. So you could be at six figures, seven figures, eight figures. We have different groups for different levels. All you have to do is go to marketing school the io Slash Agency. Again, that's marketing school, the Ioslash agency, and you can go there to apply. And I will tell you right now what we're doing is there's an online community there is we do calls every now and then there's stuff that we share in there that we don't share publicly, and you can at least the online community you can counsel anytime, so you can go there to learn more about it.

Yeah, Because for some companies they're just like, here's our budget, this is the ROI we're expecting. We want you to go spend it. We don't want to pay you any fees. Take it from the budget. And then some are like, no, we want you to tell us what your fees are, and either way, we're transparent in both ways, but just certain organizations are like, I need it done this way for accounting or internal purposes to get approval, and we're like, all right, that's what has their own incentives. But yeah, all right, real quick, I need to tell you about the group that Neil and I created called the Agency Owners Association. And this is a group that's similar to entrepreneurial organizations such as YPO or EO. By the way, Neil and I are both YPO, but we thought it would be really cool if we're able to create a group that's dedicated to agency owners to helping them scale. So you could be at six figures, seven figures, eight figures. We have different groups for different levels. All you have to do is go to marketing school the io Slash Agency. Again, that's marketing school, the Ioslash agency, and you can go there to apply. And I will tell you right now what we're doing is there's an online community there is we do calls every now and then there's stuff that we share in there that we don't share publicly, and you can at least the online community you can counsel anytime, so you can go there to learn more about it.

And that being said, back to the podcast.

And that being said, back to the podcast.

On that note, speaking of demand gen and brands, did you see the value of the top one hundred B to B brands are up ten percent versus last year. This is from Marketing Week.

On that note, speaking of demand gen and brands, did you see the value of the top one hundred B to B brands are up ten percent versus last year. This is from Marketing Week.

No, I haven't seen it.

No, I haven't seen it.

Yeah, so B to B companies have been doubling down on branding.

Yeah, so B to B companies have been doubling down on branding.

Everyone's like, oh, the.

Everyone's like, oh, the.

Economy's struggling, it's a bad time. People are pulling back. Yes, they may be pulling back on certain sales or marketing spend, but a lot of them have been doubling down on marketing efforts that help with brand growth, and it shows that the value of their brands are up ten percent. When people are running scared, they're hitting the market harder because they see potential growth opportunities. Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful.

Economy's struggling, it's a bad time. People are pulling back. Yes, they may be pulling back on certain sales or marketing spend, but a lot of them have been doubling down on marketing efforts that help with brand growth, and it shows that the value of their brands are up ten percent. When people are running scared, they're hitting the market harder because they see potential growth opportunities. Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful.

Yeah, the Warren Buffet quote.

Yeah, the Warren Buffet quote.

And it makes sense too, because what's happened over the last year and a half two years, actually, it's been roughly two years. In the market started getting bad at first, everyone was afraid, and they're cutting back and people are like, Oh, we're kind of getting used to this environment. Business still isn't that bad. Yeah, let's keep spending and doubling down and gobble up more market share when things are cheaper.

And it makes sense too, because what's happened over the last year and a half two years, actually, it's been roughly two years. In the market started getting bad at first, everyone was afraid, and they're cutting back and people are like, Oh, we're kind of getting used to this environment. Business still isn't that bad. Yeah, let's keep spending and doubling down and gobble up more market share when things are cheaper.

That's what happens.

That's what happens.

So typically what happens when when people become This is why Warren Buffett has such a big cash pile, right He's waiting for things to get really bad. Who knows when that day comes, right, knock on wood, But that's when he's going to deploy a huge chunk of his capital, and so he's going to become greedy when others are fearful. I'm kind of seeing this more in business right now, where entrepreneurs have been sitting on the side for a while and we've all been like a little fearful for a while, and now it's kind of like, okay, it kind of now it seems like a good time to maybe start going for it a little bit. And that's what's happening, dude. I think this is the best time in the economy. And again this is not financial advice, but I think this is one of the best times in the economy to double down and just go hard on marketing. By Betters yeah, dude, that's where the opportunities are, right.

So typically what happens when when people become This is why Warren Buffett has such a big cash pile, right He's waiting for things to get really bad. Who knows when that day comes, right, knock on wood, But that's when he's going to deploy a huge chunk of his capital, and so he's going to become greedy when others are fearful. I'm kind of seeing this more in business right now, where entrepreneurs have been sitting on the side for a while and we've all been like a little fearful for a while, and now it's kind of like, okay, it kind of now it seems like a good time to maybe start going for it a little bit. And that's what's happening, dude. I think this is the best time in the economy. And again this is not financial advice, but I think this is one of the best times in the economy to double down and just go hard on marketing. By Betters yeah, dude, that's where the opportunities are, right.

It's just like.

It's just like.

A lot of people are shy or they're struggling, and they're shy because they've been, you know, down for quite a bit and they just are depressed and they're just like, look, I don't want to get up, I don't want to keep going. I don't want to push too much harder. And we're buying companies right now from founders who are burnt out, no joke, like we're going to close the deal next month. Great founders, great company. They work with amazing brands. I think founders are saying they work with amazing brands like Levi's and Dominoes and Grand Hyad and Grab and Rentold and Cannon, like real enterprise brands, and a lot of the founders are just burnt out and they just want to be part of a larger organization that can help them.

A lot of people are shy or they're struggling, and they're shy because they've been, you know, down for quite a bit and they just are depressed and they're just like, look, I don't want to get up, I don't want to keep going. I don't want to push too much harder. And we're buying companies right now from founders who are burnt out, no joke, like we're going to close the deal next month. Great founders, great company. They work with amazing brands. I think founders are saying they work with amazing brands like Levi's and Dominoes and Grand Hyad and Grab and Rentold and Cannon, like real enterprise brands, and a lot of the founders are just burnt out and they just want to be part of a larger organization that can help them.

Two lessons there.

Two lessons there.

One, yes, go buy them when they're when they're burnt out, and probably when things are a little tougher so you can get a better multiple or better valuation, I should say. The other thing is if you can keep the founders amazing, because the founder is usually a lot of there's a lot of brand not brand equity, but a lot of good will is built up with the founders at the end of the day. And the other thing is, by the way, don't think that you can't afford these things. You can.

One, yes, go buy them when they're when they're burnt out, and probably when things are a little tougher so you can get a better multiple or better valuation, I should say. The other thing is if you can keep the founders amazing, because the founder is usually a lot of there's a lot of brand not brand equity, but a lot of good will is built up with the founders at the end of the day. And the other thing is, by the way, don't think that you can't afford these things. You can.

There's a lot of different ways to do these deals, right.

There's a lot of different ways to do these deals, right.

You can. You can take money from a balance sheet, you can seller finance, you can trade equity, roll them into your company. Right, there's a lot of ways to do these deals. It's SPA financing, SBA financing, that's up to five million dollars. Right, you have to buy the whole thing, though, I think with the SBA, the founder can't stay from my understanding, I could be wrong, though, I don't know. But Eric, who's done a few deals in the past creative, you got outside debt partners, you got sp loans, and you've done sellar based financing, all the things, all the creative things, but with specific deals you've done a combination of all of them just for even one deal, right yep.

You can. You can take money from a balance sheet, you can seller finance, you can trade equity, roll them into your company. Right, there's a lot of ways to do these deals. It's SPA financing, SBA financing, that's up to five million dollars. Right, you have to buy the whole thing, though, I think with the SBA, the founder can't stay from my understanding, I could be wrong, though, I don't know. But Eric, who's done a few deals in the past creative, you got outside debt partners, you got sp loans, and you've done sellar based financing, all the things, all the creative things, but with specific deals you've done a combination of all of them just for even one deal, right yep.

And you can get really creative.

And you can get really creative.

Like you don't have to just take one route. If something gives you part of the money but not everything, you can you know, add a few more things in there to make a deal work. Yeah, and then you can have there's a private equity, does it? I mean you just study private equity they have oftentimes with the agencies, if you keep the founders, usually there's like a three to four year what is it, it's not a it's not an ad back.

Like you don't have to just take one route. If something gives you part of the money but not everything, you can you know, add a few more things in there to make a deal work. Yeah, and then you can have there's a private equity, does it? I mean you just study private equity they have oftentimes with the agencies, if you keep the founders, usually there's like a three to four year what is it, it's not a it's not an ad back.

What do you call it when you're not or not?

What do you call it when you're not or not?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, and.

Yeah, yeah, and.

They usually they usually still have equity, and it is they don't want to just because they want the founders to have some skin in the game. They don't want to just like walk off into the sunset because they need that founder because there's a lot of information they know. Because when you're buying a company, by the way, you're getting their best face, you really don't know all the skeletons in the closet.

They usually they usually still have equity, and it is they don't want to just because they want the founders to have some skin in the game. They don't want to just like walk off into the sunset because they need that founder because there's a lot of information they know. Because when you're buying a company, by the way, you're getting their best face, you really don't know all the skeletons in the closet.

So ideally you can keep the founder on. So we're gonna end it.

So ideally you can keep the founder on. So we're gonna end it.

Go to marketing school at Aisles Agency if you want to grow your agency faster. That's the community that Neil and I have. We're like communities everything. We think it's the next funnel, the next way of growing your audience through community. Check it out, don't forget to rate, subscribe it helps scrow let us what you let us know, what you continue to think about these long form episodes, and we'll see you. We'll see in the next episode.

Go to marketing school at Aisles Agency if you want to grow your agency faster. That's the community that Neil and I have. We're like communities everything. We think it's the next funnel, the next way of growing your audience through community. Check it out, don't forget to rate, subscribe it helps scrow let us what you let us know, what you continue to think about these long form episodes, and we'll see you. We'll see in the next episode.